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(Recap) Navigating Uncertainty, Embracing Change + Unlocking Your Impact | Otter.ai

(Recap) Navigating Uncertainty, Embracing Change + Unlocking Your Impact

Sabrina Li31min

Becky Endicott

00:00

Hey, Becky, Hey, Jon. We're here to just chat. We are here to riff. We are here to dive in. We have a very loose script today, right? I love the loose script. I love our loose script too, because we want to get into the conversation around this year's trends. What do you think of Jon, yeah.

Jonathan McCoy

00:18

I mean, we just came out of some of the most like, amazing conversations. I don't think we even could see how much they were going to like, shake us as humans and just eat the moment of the century. Yeah. So if you're new to this, you know, we've unpacked the 2025, social impact trends that matter. Thanks. I donate for seeing the vision of this and allowing us to bring this series to life. But we've been doing this kind of thing for years now. I love that we can say years. So we've been around that long to say we've been doing this for years, but back in 2022 was the first time we really started to think, man, we've had hundreds of conversations on the podcast. How can we start to see the through lines and really lift the conversations that we feel like are disruptive and meet the moment? And man, this year's did not disappoint at all. But I don't think they're like normal trends either be you know, I feel like these trends

Becky Endicott

01:04

are your grandma's trends in any sense of the imagination that we think she's lovely,

Jonathan McCoy

01:10

exactly. And so I feel like I want to put a little disclaimer of like, what do I do with this? Because our intention is not just to throw a bunch of things at you and make you feel like you're behind the curve and you've got too many things to try to pick up, especially in the context of all that's happening in our world. This is how we would suggest you use this series, kind of in retrospect, is one. We hope it helps you just get curious and open up your ideas to what's possible. Number two is to know your own data. It's not just about what's happening on the global scale, like, what are your own unique advantages and opportunities? Number three is to use the trends to start conversations. But, you know, there's going to be a dot, dot, dot after this, and then grow that conversation, because we want to move it beyond just ourself, to our, you know, our believers, to the people in your office that could help really bring this across the finish line and then get into activation. So number five is to simply run a pilot see what works. You know, one of our core values around here is to disrupt, grow, adapt, repeat. This is a great time to do that. You know, these are kind of ideas you can try on, but the goal of number six is just to simply try something new and be brave as you go. This is something that we can all do and implement in our work, because they are applicable. They're kind of universal in that sense. So Becky, we've had like eight conversations that, like we said at the top of this, have kind of shook us. What is lifting for you as you kind of look back over the series, wow.

Becky Endicott

02:31

I mean, I will say that we felt pretty confident about these trends coming into 2025 and then Julie puts together this panel of experts with these questions. And I strongly encourage anyone to go back and listen to all eight of those episodes, because even with what we thought we knew about it coming in, the expansion of what I now believe to be true and what is possible got unpacked with these guests, and so I want to bring up one, one phrase, and it's literally only three words, which I know is very rare for me to like, come in very succinctly. But I heard this phrase from Scott Curran, who is just such an incredible advisor in the sector. If you're not following him on LinkedIn, I highly recommend it, but we were kind of talking about all of the dystopian nature of the world and executive orders, and he gave me this piece of advice, and this is what's lifting for me out of this series, reframe, don't retreat. Reframe, don't retreat. This is what I think Scott means by this and how I'm interpreting it. There's a lot to react to in the world right now. There's a lot we can react to on either side of many, many issues, but this need to react and to have sort of an emotional response, and it's going to trigger our fear and all of that serotonin. And what we're trying to say is pause and think about what's happening in the context of what you know within your organization. Don't retreat, don't run away, don't get fearful. Think about how a new executive order, a lack of funding, maybe a program falls apart. What does that mean to your narrative, to your mission, to your collective movement, and once you can frame out what that actually means in the context of your reality, socialize that. Tell people about it, share it, ask for their input, do not retreat, reframe and get in there and share the story of what's happening right now. That's what's coming up for me. So what about you, Jon?

Jonathan McCoy

04:44

I just I relate to what you're saying that I think what's lifted for me is that it's very, I guess, easy to feel stuck and feel like men Frozen is maybe a better term. And I think what's really lifted for me this. So far is the personal and organizational agency that we still have and that we can still be intentional, because change is always constant, and we did not plan this. Let me just say, but if you go back to how these episodes fell, there was like, definitely a through line, because Abby felik, who just launched the flight school in the last few months in kind of this latest chapter, open the season with this amazing quote, our lives are constantly in flux. We never know what's going to happen from one moment to the next, but we're scrambling for solid ground that does not exist. Boom. Just want to follow around Abby felik and say boom after she speaks right? Because it's just so deep. So I mean, if you're feeling, if this is resonant for you, know you're in a community here, that we're right there with you, but you know also what kind of came through this season, and specifically through this series, is that Jeff shuck, can we just give a shout out to Jeff shuck with plenty, who's been the mentor and guide to us, personally and organizationally, he came in to talk about the trend we need your light. Definitely go listen to this episode. I feel like it is required listening to for navigating the kind of uncertainty that we find ourselves in. But we got to play this moment from the podcast that really stuck out.

Jeff Shuck

06:17

You just expressed a lot Becky of what we hear from people, I think there's there's confusion from some people. There's a yearning for more from people. There's a wanting to be optimistic. There's a knowing that that's needed. And I think some people feel deeply unsettled and and uncertain and kind of maybe what we've really lived through, especially if you're at a certain age and a certain point in your career, what we've seen in the last 10 years, particularly since COVID, is this deeply unsettling knowing of something that's always been true, which is there's actually not much that's bankable. You know, there's so much is ephemeral, so much is transitory. And we, we're we're surrounded by change, but we're deeply resistant to it, right? And and I think that's been exposed. I think it's harder and harder for people not to see, whoa, the things that I really depend on and honestly take for granted fade away

Jonathan McCoy

07:31

that gut punch of life, right? How do we not take for granted these moments that are so precious? And I think it speaks to why we are so needed to show up with the gifts, with the, you know, humanity that only you can bring to this moment like such a powerful reminder. Yeah,

Becky Endicott

07:49

I mean, Jeff, I still remember a tail end on that quote that was something like the worrying and the whining has low social utility, like do it to vent, but move on, because the activation is the change, and I think that's the through line I'm also seeing here. But I got to pull one last one up, because I know you're going to remember this one, Jon, because we both, like had a physical reaction when we heard this, but Sixto Cancel came in to talk about advocacy as non negotiable. And I also like to not speed through that, because I want each of those words to punctuate and give really heavy weight right now that advocacy is non negotiable. And we asked him a question about, what would he say to leaders who are feeling really trepidatious to get into what could be perceived as a political arena. And what he said stayed with me. I've thought about it every day since we've interviewed him. So take a listen to this.

Sixto Cancel

08:53

The thing that comes to mind for me is for a leader who's really struggling, is if you are struggling, you already know your answer. You're being called to lean into it

Jonathan McCoy

09:05

goodness.

Sixto Cancel

09:08

There is a calling to be able to do the work when you are responsible for being in service to the most vulnerable. And as nonprofit leaders, we are called, and we have an intuition and we have a gut feeling in the direction we need to move. There will be consequences. There'll be consequences for acting and not acting. The reality is, is that people in this moment, funders in this moment, are trying to understand who are the leaders, who are going to play at different levels, the level of direct response when there is a new regulation, a new executive order, a new law. There is implication on the actual ground. Who is going to do that work? Then the second piece is, who are the systems change leaders? Who are going to be actually saying, You know what? We are going to look at, the policies, the structure, the finance flows. They're looking at leaders. Who are going to be the data and evidence folks, who's going to sit there and ensure that we have enough evidence collected in order to act in a certain way? What we're living in right now is a moment where the structure of how this country has worked for the last couple of decades is fundamentally shifting around those who have been in need and and have had to engage the social service system.

Becky Endicott

10:26

Okay, so if you're feeling a pit in your stomach, you already know the answer, and so I just felt like that entire you know the answer, and there will be consequences for action and inaction. But I want to tell you all what happened right before Sixto said this quote, we asked this question to him, because we do feel like it's a looming sort of elephant in the room for nonprofit. Is how bold do we feel to step in to a political climate and advocate on behalf of our missions alongside our community, and we asked this question, and six do took a beat, and then he goes right into a beautiful answer. And then he stops himself and he says, Hold on, I need to think about this. And he pauses, and he comes back, and he says this quote about, if you feel the pit in your stomach, you already know. And it was just such a moment for me, Jon, where I was like, we already know what our values, what our beliefs, what our purpose, what our being is calling us to do. It's Do we have the bravery to have that step forward, to honor that belief and really be the champion that our missions really need right now. So that was a moment for me, total watershed.

Jonathan McCoy

11:47

There's just been a ton of those in this series, and I realize it's only been eight episodes, but I'm like the growth that I've felt, the literal messages we've received from you, fellow listener, of like, how these conversations cut through have just been incredible. Like, I think that there's we're all looking for hope in this moment. We're also looking for just some wise counsel of how to show up in the midst of so much change. And so we got to run through some of the other things that stuck out to us from this podcast series. Because, I mean, Becky, we started with community as the multiplier, right? I mean, you know, we believe this if you listen to this, but what stuck out for you from that episode?

Becky Endicott

12:22

I mean, I think it was just you we have Floyd Jones on, who bring? Who is, you know, Mr. Community. And he says, people may come for the product, but they're going to stay for the community. And I think that sense of belonging, if you can ground that in and root that in at the very beginning, you're going to watch it multiply, because the belief is already there. Back to what we said before. Your gut is already telling you, your values are already telling you. And so we want to go into like, who's doing it? Well, if you want to point you to a couple of organizations and movements that we think are doing community as a multiplier so well, Team Rubicon, look at what they do to mobilize volunteers on a grassroots scale is absolutely incredible. I think Michael J Fox Foundation's Facebook community has such a bonkers story, and we will definitely put that episode in the show notes, because I think what they did to use community as a multiplier is watching a community right now feed itself, which is absolutely incredible. But the last one I'll throw out is she's the first I love, being a member of their monthly giving club. It's called the front row, and people who are using little pockets of their community, whether it's your monthly giving group or your planned giving group, or your social media people or these people who come to your event, they're mobilizing those micro communities to be a source to find other community and other like minded friends. So what's coming up for you? Jon?

Jonathan McCoy

13:48

I mean, okay, I gotta go back to one of my favorites. This is, like, this such repeatable phrase. It's called simple shifts on repeat. This same idea that we talked about, you know, since the early days of the podcast, is innovation, trying stuff. We put too big of words around it, and it can just be simple things that we can just try to illuminate. How can we get to our goal in a different way? You know, our friend Adam O'Brien AOB came in. This is just so dang implementable. Be building a culture that it's okay to fail and it's okay to try small things. This is the time to do it. And here's what I'm gonna say. I could list organizations that are doing this. Well, we try to do this at We Are For Good. But here's the thing you it's like the Time Magazine. You're the person of the year in this you are the person that can do this well, because, again, it doesn't have to be revolutionary. It's small, 1% shifts. Maybe today, when you're writing that email, maybe you try changing the subject line to see if it, you know, moves the open rate. Or maybe you need to look at your donation page and hide a form that's not required that's probably slowing somebody down at checkout. Test it for a month, see what happens. Or maybe you just need to create some type of hypothesis to say, hey, if we start promoting this event in this way, and. Said it this other way for a month. What does that do downstream to affect registrations, trying things and testing them against our ideas are the way that we improve over time. And so you can be the ultimate optimizer. You can put simple shifts on repeat. And we believe in you. I got to quote Seth Godin here, because he wraps this up so well. He says, We don't need more good ideas. We need more bad ideas, so that's your permission to try things in service of what could be so much better just by making a simple shift.

Becky Endicott

15:28

Okay, you're talking about simple shifts, and I'm going to be encouraging everyone to do a big shift, Jon, and the next one I want to talk about is owning your authentic narrative. And this is why I think I want you to make a big shift, and it's really in your mindset, because we have been telling ourselves the same story about our missions for years, and let me be really clear and loving to you that there are anchors to what you do that should be repeated hundreds and hundreds of times, but your story is not the same story it was for your mission 10 years ago, five years ago, hello, even one year ago, with the world that we're living in right now. And we had this just incredible conversation with Dr Tim Lampkin, and I have to tell you, I have such a professional crush on Tim lampkins brain, because the way he thinks about narrative, the way he thinks about truth and bringing community in in such a humane way, is the way. And he had this profound quote, and he said, you know, he's working with higher purpose CO and they were trying to get a new story out about Mississippi and poverty and what people thought. And he said, first, we had to change the stories we were telling ourselves as an organization. We had to say, what are the stories we've been told, and what are the stories we need to tell to debunk these preconceived notions. And the thing is, friends, if you can do this with community, if you can source these stories from your community. They are the story of the collective. You are not one story. Your mission is the collection of many people, many interactions, many stories that have come through there someone. I just want to give you a couple of orgs you can go check out of, who's doing it really, really well, I think, unshattered this just incredible addiction. Community for women in upstate New York is amazing. Room to Read specifically, Room to Read New Jersey is doing beautiful work. Camera for girls in Uganda is outstanding. And then I got to put Dr lampkins Oregon here. Higher purpose CO has literally almost written the book on this. Go check that out.

Jonathan McCoy

17:39

Yeah, love all those organizations so much. Well, I gotta take us back. I mean, I was scrolling LinkedIn this past six months ago, probably, and I ran across Ori carmel's work, and he just shifted something deeply on its access for me, of that the way that we're defining impact is all wrong. And so the trend that he lifted through this conversation was called redefining impact measurement, and y'all you know that we beat the drummer about this quite often on the podcast, but it really is what Ori describes is an art and a science. And the ability for us to bring the two together, to allow them to be complimentary to each other, it shifts everything. And so I'm really excited to, like, dig into this topic and this theme, especially this year, because we want to move beyond just talking about the things we do, and really look at the outcomes, the impacts. What's not just counting things, but actually, like measuring the change that we're trying to create in the world. And the more we can create connection between that and the humans, the stories, the nuance, that's what's going to stand out whenever we start to thread this together with being better advocates for our mission and trying to find those believers to build community, is when we can get down to the true nuance of what is the difference that we're making in the world. So I think this trend really matters. And so I'd encourage you to follow Ori Ori carmel's work, his work through with so in because they're talking about this in a really plain speak sort of way, and it's something that I want to see more of us lean into this year. And I think it could be revolutionary for

Becky Endicott

19:11

our missions here for that. And I'll tell you what else I'm here for is getting kids involved in this process. Yes, like y'all, it is not a surprise that we believe we should be fueling young generosity at every part of not just the philanthropic experience, but the human experience. So we have this trend to fuel young generosity, and it's this idea that we want to inspire and activate generosity at this early stage, because we believe children's involvement in philanthropy is vital, not only to their being, but to way that they create unified expansion and connected community. They see things that we don't see. They have natural empathy and social responsibility and and a sense of. Justice baked into them at such an early age, and so we had this just really outstanding conversation with Manuela testolini, over at in a perfect world, who's been doing this for 20 years, really activating kids to be the change within their community. And she said, Trust young people. We often dismiss them, but we should meet them where they are, encourage them to be their authentic selves, instead of shaping them into something else. And this is this call to empowering kids to be in the work. And it's a call to us to create those opportunities and model it for them. We want to engage children and youth in service we need by listening to their ideas and perspectives, by giving them opportunities to connect. We want to leverage technology and social media to like responsibly connect to young activists and kids who care about certain things. And I also think we just got to implement programs that help our kids to develop their skills and engage in these social projects while we're storytelling the journey the entire way, because we want to make it tangible and relatable to young people. And this is the final thing I want to say on fuel young generosity. If this is something that is really striking a chord with you, there are two questions that I have seen really work well when we're trying to get kids grounded into this work and get them grounded into the feeling of it, and the number one thing is, what did you notice when kids activate into generosity, we need to ask them what they notice. And then the second thing is, how did it make you feel? And if you can get answers to do those two things. You know, the next step that you're going to make to create that circle of reciprocity, where they come back and they want to do it again and again. And I think the people who are doing it well is clearly in a perfect world. I think Charity Water is doing an incredible job. They have even a kids tool kit. The altruist. I'm going to geek out on them, and I'm going to totally try to recruit them onto the pod. Onto the podcast, because this is the founder, one of the founders of Kiva, is doing things to operationalize getting kids activated. And then UNICEF next gen, I think, is just a great example of trying to get youth together in a space of community and get them activated in causes around the world. So, you know, I'm geeked out about this one. Jon, you

Jonathan McCoy

22:20

know, I'm here for getting kids involved in philanthropy, and they're at least mine are teaching me so much about it every day. So that's definitely the posture about this, right? Can I

Becky Endicott

22:29

give a quote on here that your daughter said to you that I have never forgotten? Do you remember when Vivian said Giving Tuesday is my favorite holiday? I was like, I was like kid at another level. That's a kid who gets it. I want to be giving Tuesday vivid energy. Yes,

Jonathan McCoy

22:46

yeah, me too. Well, I got to round this out, because I'll say I don't like to pick favorites. Y'all know this, but this trend really is a favorite of mine. Because, you know, we're definitely in the space with a podcast that we meet a lot of people with a lot of brilliant ideas, but this one just really cut through with us this year, and it's Rise of the change leader. The rise of the change leader. Right? Our friend Lindsay Fuller, I'm sure you have gotten connected to her work. If you listen to the podcast, she led the gather at the well series that has appeared on in feed to kind of walk you through micro dosing wellness, but Lindsay just views her work as an executive director of the teaching well differently, because she's not just looking to make impact within her walls or in their specific programs, but really trying to translate what it means to be a change leader on a bigger scale outside of the walls, and really giving scaffolding beyond those that are directly in front of you to give service to, but being a change leader that we can all kind of lean into and learn from. And so I want to give a little bit of what really moved me from that conversation, but I got to quote Lindsay here. She said, What happens when we spend all of our time trying to influence others with our wild ideas and not actually scaffolding that brilliance, making it actionable, teaching people the way to achieve that change. Okay, in the moment, with so many influencers, you know, dominating not only our feeds, but probably our minds and like life in the world today, this is how we really aspire to show up. And definitely the type of people that we want to lock arms with at We Are For Good are those that are committed to actually making the change. And that's not going to be a single person. This is a collective. And I think that is the invitation here, not of just like how we share the ideas to help people, you know, implement the ideas of change in their own life or in their own programs, but also, like leaning in that this is not something you can do on your own, like we're not going to change the world from the platitude of the podium by ourselves, like we have to embrace this mindset of that it's the collective. So how can we each see our teams, see our industry, see this community that's a collective that together as change leaders. We really can make change. We're not going to be able to do it by ourselves and change leaders. Understand that. And so I think this is not only like a trend that sticks out to me, that that's something we can all think through of, like, how do we take our work and use it as scaffolding to help others in the journey, but also that we're not alone and we don't have it all figured out. Think if there's something that I keep walking into rooms this year is that all of us feel a little like stuck or stifled of not knowing how to respond when so many things are changing at the same time, but the answer really can be found in community. And so I think this is an opportunity and invitation as these trends stack together that know your light, see your light, own your light, and then start to think of yourself and take the steps to be a change leader. How can you bring that thing that you've got figured out, that you could share with the world, that it's desperately needs in this moment, and how can we use that to advocate? It's like, this is how they stack together. But I think it's a clarion call for us to, like, lean into this moment and use what we know and use it to be empowering, not to just build our thought leadership platform to actually create change like, it's so dang exciting, I have like chills when I think about it, and I'm just here for it. So thank you, Lindsay, for giving us the fire to lean into this topic this year. I

Becky Endicott

26:14

just want to break out and we are the world like, I don't want to be toxically positive, because it's been freaking hard it let's acknowledge that it has been dark at times. It has been fearful at times, it has been scary at times. But Jon, I love that you just put a bow on this conversation by saying it may feel dark, but the world freaking needs your light, and that is what is the hope, and hope is activating, and hope is doing and that's what a change leader is, is someone who doesn't just to Jeff's wonderful quote about it's okay to vent and feel sad and sit in that but we need to be that change. We need to pull ourselves up and lock our arms so we have loved this trend series I have learned so much. Personally. I think just watching the community grow in this has given such tremendous momentum and hope to this movement. But we got to wrap it up, Jon with the one good thing, so I'm kicking it to you first, so I don't have to go first.

Jonathan McCoy

27:15

Okay, you know, I love this when you tee me up, but I have a little ongoing Notes tab of just quotes that like, kind of sucker punch me in life. And I think this connects to the simple shifts on repeat, this idea that we don't have to change everything, but we can change the small things. And this quotes from young Pueblo, if you don't follow his work, like, definitely go change out. Follow this change leaders work. But this is from one of his books. It says, I gathered my habits and started releasing the ones that can never lead me to lasting freedom and joy. Holy heck. But I think especially because we're still kind of in the new year, even though this year's felt like three years long already, but it's like we're still in the new year. Like, truly, like, write out the things. I did this on my own to write out some of, like, my habits of just things that you like, tend to like, repeat, repeatedly do throughout your day or week, and then literally just, like, sit with them and like, is this serving me toward freedom and joy and like, how can we do less of those things that aren't and more of the things that are? And I think there's a huge unlock here, and it doesn't have to be revolutionary, but it can over time, especially as you embed them as like habits in your life. So that's something I'm thinking through. What about you be

Becky Endicott

28:26

I love it. And the 1% shifts literally do stack up. I think my one good thing I'm going, I'm going back to this concept of why you are so important in this world. And I'm also going to bring out a quote. I've been quoting Howard Thurman quite a bit. I'm, like, very into this deceased philosopher and civil rights activist and just an incredible author. And he says, Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive? And go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. And so if you are looking for the hope, if you are looking around and saying, who's gonna do the thing, I'm telling you, it's you, and it's me, and it's the person next to us, and it's all of us grabbing hold of that belief that we're gonna go do the thing that lights up the world, and all of our light is going to come together, and we're going to affect some crazy ass change there, right there, that I had to drop the cuss word because I needed emphasis on that syllable. Because I need you to believe that you are capable of doing this, that there is something unique within you that the world needs. And we need you to unlock it and pour it in, and we need it now more than ever. So what a hand lift,

Jonathan McCoy

29:45

man, these trends are like bringing out all the emo I mean, you think you're coming for the nonprofit trends, and I hope you feel a little more buoyed in this community, in this space. If these have resonated with you, I want to point you to a couple of like Risa. Services, Becky and I recorded like an hour long work workshop with slides over at we are for good.com/ 2025, trends. That link will be in the episode description or in the show notes, but definitely go there. You can download this. Because our hope, like any good change leader, aspiring change leader, is that this wouldn't just be a conversation, but it'd be a starter of really significant shifts that could lead toward more engagement this year, more fulfillment in your work, and certainly like more change actually happening in your work. So head over to We Are For Good comm slash 2025, trends, and grab that presentation, because we'd love to walk this journey with you. Yes,

Becky Endicott

30:39

and I still have in my mind's eye the comment section during that presentation where people were saying, my board needs to hear this. They need to go through this. My staff needs to hear this. Please socialize it, because that is how community grows, how hearts expand, how mindsets shift. So you know, we're rooting for you friends, and we will always be here to support you, uplift and connect you to more good gratitude.

Jonathan McCoy

31:02

Appreciate you.

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