So is it possible for you to recite and what you guys are expecting from us and any questions you have from us.
Okay, great.
I'll go first have any here
I already introduced me to joy and Akira. So me is now in Boston was just got there to be on her fellowship at Harvard. And he is the one that's like owning the publisher. That's she's one of us hoping that publish Mandarin version of the practice of change. So that's like, the thing that we did all of our book club basically, at any any spokes nowhere, so it's like a really important place for every one of us here. We have your disability Hello.
Booty and I running
across was reading material. We will read three and from social science at the same time. We all can have some knowledge on French field from the brain friends from different fields.
So what Billy's doing is actually very, very trends were cross disciplinary. We basically collect all these different books on different discipline and read it all together even though we have very good background that's why we have such a diverse group here. So Billy is one of the main advocates for the cross discipline reading.
We have Jimmy Hi Ron Jimmy. My family come from the local community
and our like, online
datings mostly go bye bye bye. That's pretty much it.
So Jimmy is also one of the main contributor at the FFL and also, recently we've been in like the fall initiative and basically all of us here is a part of it. Then and then we have Frank
Frank, Mozilla contributor is that down to zero and is also a study group. Tom has mentioned and I also I'm a collector. So I just joined the Nisha boys and epi in the Virgin cell and try to understand about the crystal village in Japan and read the code in the wild Japan about the company so interesting and about the web three world in Japan. So nice to meet you all.
And now we have sc
I'm interested in the
contributor of the
EB tech community from zero in
Taiwan. And I'm a longtime
open source project.
And promoter in Taiwan. So I open source variable companies from the 2005 to 2000
estimator. So actually has already been in the space for like almost two years. Use like one of the most senior person here, who has like a lot of experience in open source movement and civic tech. And then we have data.
Hi, everyone, my name is Chapa I'm also a contributor lattanzio and present mostly help out organizing different events. I'm particularly interested in how web three or say digital technology can help in the conventional activities of urban planning. I say place my kids and young I'm also trying to launch a few experimental actions in this field in Taiwan most recently. That's about it. Thank you.
So we have like five more. And we have the
fun Hi everyone. I'm leaving heavy to see a few familiar faces here. I was there as it flew around Tokyo this past April. So I helped coordinate it. The another book club called was April where I serve pizza and fried chickens. Oh my rentals. So studying the practice of change. So as I mentioned, I'm a lawyer working closely with eating be on Start committees, day to day from like, with one with two to three within Taiwan, and also Hong Kong and Southeast Asia. So happy to talk about that.
So just a quick context for FootJoy and the team. There's actually two main book clubs in Taiwan, like in the civic tech or web brief space one is web repo and the other one is down zero learning. So downs or learn is basically kind of a branch under down zero, the community. It's mainly focused on web three and non web three and the cross disciplinary of those two area. And for web repo. It's basically a bunch of people wanting to learn how we started to collect and all the information they can get and started reading read together. And the two book club eventually collide. So we have a lot of crossovers talking about like different books and the practice of changes is basically one of the crossover of the two. The two book club that's why we have so many people here today, because all of us are like, like Ben Affleck. And then we have no
yes. So I'm one of the core contributors don't do so I'm just happy to be here because I'm with Family. I would love to to hear everybody's thoughts, especially Joyce Joyce thoughts on our discussions.
We have telephones. I carry
so I think it's a little bit blurry. So Toby is is he's like 19 years old during his junior to like, oh, and during sophomore year. On a junior sophomore year, sophomore year of college and his art has already been in the open source community and civic tech community for more than two three years, which is like very impressive for such a young age. And he's like a really important designer in our community. So happy to have to work with here. Then we have Waylon.
Hello, I'm waiting. And we study political economy, institutional design and economic democracy. We read a practice change together. We and I'm very struck by the trans disappear Massa. What isn't much calmer in within the changing mechanism of political economy we started and then later we will have a very small group of people who will work together to post post editing or or just edits the Chinese version of previous have changed memory and motion for publication.
So the context here is we already have a kind of a meander in translation of the dissertation. But yeah, any you want to add something?
Maybe you got your first
we just say no, we was like a lot to add on and people here are just like really willing to contribute so people are just gathering to added on on the original version.
Yes, we already have a group of people around four or five to translate and move as always local places. So we are on the on the workbench right
now. On the working track, and I use look forward to discuss with with Akira and joy to see how we can probably potentially bring the two things together. The book version and also the membrane translation version. And then we have domain mastery.
Yeah, I mash me and then heavy my ramen and it's nomad. Yeah, so really nice to meet. Hello sound Joey and Don again. Yeah, D two d d delta delta promisee. Yeah, I think I don't have to make my introduction because we met many times before. But I want to say that I have collected the nishikigoi NF T two because I like the fish so much. Yeah. And I really impressive about the practice of change. And I'm eager to deploy some spirit into the policymaking in the model. Yeah, and one of the most impressive is the Ars Electronica part because I am going, Vivian and I will go into the Ars Electronica this year. So yeah, nice to meet you again.
It seems like we have a lot of EU citizens here. So I guess we can do a like online gathering some time. That'd be fun. We'll have two more people. After I can actually speak Japanese.
Yeah, some of your thoughts with Xi the keynote and Chi.
Also going in
that guy, are you gonna die they're at odds are the most quicker able. So I'm also on the editing team. study those Chinese version book and since my life I've always been a alternative student or unschool there. So I have a lot of I resonate a lot with Mr. Ito experience. I also up in a college dropout but somehow entered the graduate program as well. And since my teens I have always been driven to investigate and understand what are the common underlying common mechanisms underlying our worlds crisis, and I see the silo by silo fight and disciplinary approach detrimental to our understanding, so currently, I also take a complex system and also critical realist approach to addressing these and in in terms of action my intervention point is more in education and social innovation. Some of the partners I worked with include, for example, Germany, paint connard odler, and also occasionally with some Taiwanese government agencies. In terms of research I tried to continue to immerse myself and communicate with existing academic communities to the cross pollinate and also try computing something new. That is, I believe, for those who have experience in academia you also know the struggle of that I'm still trying Thank you.
Last one that we use we have Derrick
Hello
Jerry Okay. Great. I think we can't we in stock furs if you if any of you want to ask anything. Feel free to raise your hand because we have like way too many people today and limited time. So I'm hoping that joy can also give us an quick introduction on like, who's on the team who's like joining the call and why.
Yeah, well, first of all, thank you, everybody. I never thought that so many people would read my dissertation and it's a little bit embarrassing, because it was a little bit sloppy. Getting everything so I hope you can cut me some slack and and Yamaguchi son, who is from higher carb. So he's a publisher and he's published my previous book principles of change which principles nine principles in Japanese and is a I met him because he was also they published the Timothy Leary's book which in his Vironment mentor and father and also he did Lawrence Lessig book and so they do a lot of my favorite books, and they translate them into Japanese and so and it's a bilingual team and we have talked about renaming it almost completely because it's quite hard to read and also, you know, it kind of ends before web three starts. So the needs to be quite extended and so you know, my my plan was to find an editor because we needed to find an editor but we didn't have one. So finding an editor, make it easier and better written, sort of upgraded to look into the future. I don't know if this is the same thing that you guys are making. It could be that two different books because it seems to me just kind of listening to you, but you you are doing so much work, you know, so maybe my practice of change is the introduction to an anthology of papers by you guys. So, so I think we should be open minded about whether it's a same book or a different book and as you know, it's creative commons license, so you can do whatever he wants. And I think, you know, it could be that I'm just participating in your project. So I don't want to push any kind of ownership. I mean, it's almost kind of the point of the book is to create platforms and and I think it sparks some creativity and thinking and activity on your site. I don't I'd rather just encourage it rather than try to over manage it. So I think we should be open minded about the framing and we should talk about it today. So I don't have any, anything I try to contribute to what you want to do. And I do think that at some point that what you're doing is much more relevant then what I've done instead, like you said, Maybe I'm just kind of an archival piece of what you're doing. And then And then, you know, after the change, I think we came in came to Japan and Dan works for me right now and she likes to have technology, cit and digital garage, and she's the deputy architect of digital garage, and I'll let her introduce herself. And I think you all know how Seki from corporate Japan and how Don and I are working on this thing called big data, which is the data that's going out of the digital agency. And this one, you know, we're very much followers of you guys. I think that you know, for me, what's so exciting about this meeting is I think Haiwan is the only country in the world where you have a digital democracy and where digital students took over the government and are still in charge. You know, I think in the old days, it's in that dissertation a little bit. I think we all hoped that Arab Spring would become something where young people and social media and active people took over, but it didn't work. And I think Taiwan's really the only successful experiment so far. So I'm really here to learn a lot. And I've been talking to different governments and looking at our own educational system in Japan. But you know, for me, my purpose today is to try to learn from you and to see if I can implement and deploy some of your ideas. And also to see if I can learn and contribute in some way as a participant. So that's my goal, and I think I have some Japanese government interventions. And now we see it, I'm trying to do some new things, and also just talking to people in other countries as well. And then maybe, how do you want to introduce yourself first?
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me to this interesting meeting. I'm founder or project manager and also one of organizers. Privilege he took off and some I wanted to really wanted to attend Taiwan, but I couldn't. And so I just wanted to know what was discussed them and also just interesting, interesting or do you are talking Thank you.
We really hope that how does that can hinder because how does on this actually part of the very early like polarity Tecate organizer like he was in that group? And we had like a few discussion on that, which we definitely learned a lot of Tokyo to build the somewhat successful Wi Fi Taipei. So like, kudos to you guys. Thank you
Sure. Good evening, everybody. Without Chalian I yeah, I also wanted to go to clarity, Taipei because I was at Seoul bound in April and like Sony and some of my friends were there and telling me about that floor. It was quite similar to soul bond and I had my best way to experience that and see that I could have joined but that also means that we can also have the next opportunity. I also realized that there's some academics here, so I'm also PC students, researching on how we can reduce prejudice using digital platforms. And I'm aiming to form trust among strangers coming from different cultures. And then working with joy. I call him my own and only boss but he has been enlightening me on how this interdisciplinary space can actually be architected for unique sensibilities to emerge. So I am excited to hear what are your takeaways from Joy's dissertation and his other readings, and also to see how we can turn this into bigger movements to actually achieve the practice of change.
Thank you. We're actually doing a Taipei bound later this year in December, which is a soul bound but in Taipei or in Taiwan, so that's something we'll keep you guys posted.
Awesome. Working with Sony
by the way so yeah, she's aware. Nice to meet you.
Anyone else from from your side?
No, I said there were a few people that were invited. But I think unless we look, I think those are the only people who showed up. Yeah, I think that's Sorry, I'm Elisa.
Akira, editor for higher power publishing. In Tokyo. We published us. Very summation, Whiplash. I don't know how many years ago. We are trying to publish practice of a change in new ways because it was written five years ago. 2018 and so many political and social change since then, so we need an update for a book, I believe. And I'm very curious to know how you guys we like feel about this book because we need to save about a police problem for the book. So very nice to meet you. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on that.
I think like each of us will have like very, very different perspective when it comes to the book. What we did at the book club is that we have everyone that's that that that already read the book, they presented like four to six or so like for 10 or 20 minutes. We would kind of like try to live in a time budget. There's like way too many things for us to talk about. So sometimes you will go over the time limit. But basically everyone round to round through their their perspective. So I'm thinking if it's okay, we can basically just recreate that for all of us to just share a little bit on our learnings, our takeaway and how it how the book fits into our perspective of seeing change. But I think one thing all of us share is like very specifically on the transdisciplinary part because all of us within the weaponry space. Some of us like, at least for myself, I often feel really lost or isolated. Because it's really hard for me to find people I'll have this group I'm with right now that can connect with us at the human level on Curiosity like intellectual discussion. So having this group is really important and I think that's short of cross discipline. plenary discussion is kind of the foundation of, of this very interesting group of people. During the book club, we had an order I think mesh mastering can start as since mission started our book club, like he's kind of he's the one who did the opening.
Yeah. I have prepared some questions to join but a esterday sharing the question right now at this point or should I just introduce what we going to go through the study group maybe last week, as
best I can, a little better if we can go through the what we talked about in the book club first and then we go into the question part,
okay. And I want to initiate the choice. A citation is because that I am curious about how the Internet history in every part of the world and I think that in Joy's dissertation, the pathway in Taiwan is really similar is such as Audrey Tom, and ash see in this in this meeting right now, they have a group widgets elixir in maybe 20 years. ago, and an excerpt laid out import the concept and technique of blocks into Taiwan. And elixir has changed a lot of the society in Taiwan because government zero is initiated by the member of elixir and Malta kind of initiate fried indexer to because the minister Audrey, she is the member before Yeah, so this make me curious about how is that different and the same things between Taiwan and Joy's experience and we found out that there are so many parts that is similar, such as the search engine, the digital art, the Creative Comments movement in Taiwan, and Sematech about the environment and how to make abundance of the environment in Taiwan. So yeah, so I make the opening of the presentation about your, your works. Yeah. So yeah, and because I in defense of MIT Media Labs, so it's I really, really love to share some, some observation about it. Okay, and it's my part.
So, measuring basically provide us with a framework to think about the book and come up with like lessons on letting us know that there's actually a high relation of like, the whole dissertation, the structure and the history of the internet and what we actually experienced in Taiwan, so it's kind of help us sort of that perspective, and then I wouldn't have bow turn to day right. Yes, we don't have time today. But so we have another person who is actually now in Japan on a business trip, but it seems that he's not able to join but he's the one that walk us through a different perspective of complex system. So we start with the framework and then enter a complex system to learn about how we can see things in a different way and how things are related. And how like said that they will talk about the relations in cybernetics and second orders have an ethics which help us understand why we need to insert ourselves into kind of the system to think about things and then the next one we can have weighed in on our say
hello, I'm pacing, where it may be like okay shared about the whole concept. We are really inspired by the paper about how you work from a structure to achieve your blueprint because we know you have a blueprint and from blueprint to implementation. The main problem is inventory. And we have two three examples from your paper. The first one you you change the you get experts to redesign the financial reports and accounting. And I think that is really, really important because you change the flow of power. Yeah, how the power flow and how the power comes back. And the second second example is, is about the membership model and growth because many people like to have more people or more money from from from shareholder or shareholders or shareholders but it breaks the connection between people because the shareholder is too far, far away. So you, you also tend to make a change in it to make the capital closer to their shared vision. The third, third part example is very important is you bring a diversity of viewpoint of your point from different group or different genders. Yeah, and we think if you want to make a change, you have to read the second
order a cybernetic change. And UNM is just culture is the same as exactly the same as we know on a political economy change. For in many cases in the history of Political Economy, Trade is found many made me very, very small people as a whole brand new culture, and you will like grown it like a rhizome. Into everywhere and as role from from each each local doorway just like you're you're showing any experiment
so I think for where your non patient bring out like really specific cases that they feel that they felt impressive, and the follow insurance I think is going to be like that. So people are inspired by them. And then Jehovah and you share what, you share it and
I actually read this book in a bit different way than I think most of the audience here to since I have a background in physical aka special or tiny. My reading simply put me back to my study of modern find inspiration and because planning is a sort of a transdisciplinary activity, which I think is constantly evolving. So during the process of breeding, I kind of rediscovered the cybernetics and systems science is not only one of the inspirations of finding theories and methodologies I was taught in uni, but it is less recent Chinese souls I think, also get a lot of reflections from our major understanding of the phenomena and essence of complex system so your dissertation and the recent discussion in the planning field actually, I think coincide with each other quite a lot, at least from my point of view. So in a sense, I think we probably could understand cities or even special structure of us sovereign state, or even a supranational entity and not be comprehensively played a priori, but the ways we present or theorize or put into action of the planning activity shapes this space, and that's the placemaking. Less or less, to me is quite a paradigm shift in terms of what thinking about what planning is and what planning may have potential to be. And also in the bootstrap discussion. I've also introduced a few recent experiments of how the AR VR or even Mr. XR technology can be applied into conventional urban planning processes. So in head mailing, to enhance and even to deepen civic participation is to foster government poll solutions on complex urban issues. So as some of it I actually took place in Japan, in Tokyo. So it's quite quite fascinating to me. So in general to me, I think. These are definitely also practices of trends. And I think I saw a strong tendency as we call it, terror evolution of different professional fields, both in terms of our perception of the war, as as well as how knowledge or know how SAR developed through practice. So if I want to sum up my interest, introduction in in, in that discussion, I think is sketching out a possible future of fusion of ideas from different fields to me, I think it's the most exciting part within data science dissertation.
I think we can conclude the first part of like each person's sharing and then jump into like our question a little bit, so that like more of the sharing again, we can do more of the sharing. Later after the first talk. First of all posted because I know like, for the first from, like, these people who already shared the first part, there's already a lot of questions that we we have for for for joy. So does anyone want to go first on the questions? Maybe measuring because measuring already put up a full list of content your ask?