108. How to Foster Grief-Informed Teams at Work - Michael Turner

3:28PM Apr 14, 2021

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Michael Turner

Keywords:

cf

families

people

cf foundation

sam

cystic fibrosis

chapters

foundation

cff

grief

support

nonprofit

years

moneyball

denver

mission

community

donors

mike

fundraising

Hey, I'm john.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast.

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So let's get started.

Hey, Becky, hey, john. And Julie. Becky's got an old friend in the house. Oh, my gosh, you know, one of the great advantages of having your own podcast is that you can either leverage your network in a way that is for the good. And then sometimes there's a selfish inclination, where you just happen to know extraordinarily good humans in your life. And they're working and doing things that are so quiet and humble in their spaces. And it's so nice to be able to give those people a platform to talk about missions that sincerely matter. And I just have to tell you, one of my favorite people from growing up is on the podcast today. So I want to introduce you to Mike Turner. He's the executive director of the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, Rocky Mountain chapter, which covers Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana. And I am just here to tell you, you will never find a more authentic, hilarious, brilliant human being I'm just so encouraged. Yeah, I'm teeing you up nicely, my friend. So take this ball and run with it. But we've just had a long history together. And I'm sure a lot of people would like, just to identify with we were in youth group together, we went to camp together. He was my Christmas Dan stayed in my freshman year, I will put that embarrassing photo in the show notes. You can go there and check out awkward 1415 year old Becky and Becky Kraus at that time, and Mike Turner, and just a good dude. And so Mike has had 16 years working in education. Thank you so much. We are huge proponents of education. He was a teacher. He was a school administrator and a nonprofit leader. He's based out of Denver. And right now he is just pouring all of his energy all of his heart into CFF, raising money to fund science and literally find a cure for CF. And I have to tell you, if you don't know what cystic fibrosis is, I mean, we're going to dive into that today. I've known somebody in my life, who had it who passed away from it at the age of 14, it is a devastating disease. And even john when we were working in health care, I mean, the CF kids that came through our pediatric unit, were always the nurses favorites. And because they come in their frequent fliers, and they come in so often, they're the neatest, most resilient kids, the families are extraordinary. And so I'm just really excited to tell this story. So Mike Turner, my friend, welcome to the we're for good podcast, we're glad you're here.

Oh my gosh, that was so nice. That was

it's nice to be good to nice people. So I think where we want to start is I would just love to know about your journey and how you fell into this job.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, like I literally fell into it. So I spent 16 years in education, I actually moved out to Denver to go to school, thinking I would be doing hotel restaurant management. And that didn't pan out because I found out that working long hours on weekends and holidays was not as much fun as you would think. And so I decided to make the switch over to become a teacher, so taught middle school history for two years and then worked as a program director and executive director with an organization at the time called Summer Bridge now called breakthrough here in Denver that did Middle School, basically summer and Saturday school throughout the year for students from Denver Public Schools using college students college and high school students as the teachers. So I actually trained in that program as a teacher in college, and then went back and ran the program here in Denver for a couple of years. And then I worked for the breakthrough national office, doing some sustainability work mostly around supporting other executive directors with fundraising and governance issues. And then when it got time to stop traveling, decided I want to do something local. I was actually the founding Executive Director for reading partners Colorado, which is a kindergarten through fifth grade, or third grade in some places literacy tutoring program. And after we got that program up and running off the ground, I went and worked for a charter school management organization called Rocky Mountain craft to help them grow and expand their schools from one school and now they're at three schools. I think looking at four and five and also here in town and then sort of had a career I don't say crisis because it wasn't a crisis. It was just, you know, I needed to look at look at something different. And, you know, it's kind of burnt on education. And as you all probably have seen, the education has changed a lot and needed something different. And so literally, the only rules I gave myself when I was looking for a new gig was I wanted to do good work with good people. And that was it. I didn't restrict myself to education or health or social services or anything like that I just good work with good people with a good mission behind it. And so I actually saw the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, Executive Director role on a job board and thought the skill set matched up really well. I literally had to go Google cystic fibrosis. I do not have a personal connection did not have any real prior knowledge. The only thing I remembered was randomly was that probably in like 1988 I don't even know the date that Sports Illustrated have a cut had a cover story with Boomer Esiason and his son gunner on it talking about gunners, CF. And so I remember that thinking, Oh, yeah, I know, it's a London thing. But that's about it. And so I was lucky enough to be selected to join the team here. And so yeah, so kind of a crazy journey with a sharp, right. You're working in CF and, and I will say the first year and even now I'm four years in. So I've been here four years, it'll be four years in June. I feel like I learned something new every day. Not having a background in science, not having a background in medicine. Not having a background, you know, through direct connection. There's literally something new every day I feel like I can learn about our community, and about CFS a disease. So

Mike, I love that you are candid enough to say I didn't even know what CF was when I, you know, is interested in this position. Because, you know, we're very much the torchbearers of we want, we'd love to see more people enter the sector, that don't have a background in it, bring your own creative energy, bring your passion, bring your empathy that your story supports, because we all have something to offer. So I love that part of your story. Whenever you would take the listener now kind of in your shoes, walk us through CF and walk us through how the foundation serves and supports these families. And you know, the fight for the cure.

Great cystic fibrosis, it's a genetic progressive disease that really affects lungs and gastro in the GI tract, mostly, basically anywhere in your body where there's mucus, CF really causes your body to over produce that. So people with CF in their lungs, typically, the mucus tends to build up, build up, build up, and can cause lung damage, long term, difficulty breathing, many patients often need in their later years, like a lung transplant is something that a lot of people end up needing. And then it's it's a tough one. You know, it is because it's genetic, there is currently no cure. And so really our job here at the foundation is to raise money to fund the research to find ultimately find a cure, but also, you know, fund those studies and lab research to find therapies and better treatments for people with CF so that they can live longer and more fulfilling lives. The CF Foundation was founded about six hours was 66 years ago now, we just celebrated our 65/65 anniversary, which in the CF world, there's a famous story that a young boy thought his mom was saying that he had 65 roses instead of cystic fibrosis. So 65 is a big year and a big number for the community. So we celebrated a pretty big anniversary last year. And now we're in year 66. We fund millions, hundreds of millions of dollars a year in research around the country and even in our own lab in Boston, Massachusetts. So a couple years ago, the foundation just built our own lab because the science wasn't progressing fast enough in using third party lab experiments. So and then in terms of our chapter, so what I do is I run our Rocky Mountain chapter. And so my role is to coordinate a team I have a team of six, seven, including me and our main focus is raising money. Pre COVID times we were doing a whole lot of events. We had 11 walks all the way from El Paso, Texas to Missoula, Montana. 300 we had three dinner dance events, including a pretty significant gala that does about half a million dollars a year. And then we do three endurance events. cycle, stair climb at what is now in power Field at Mile High Stadium and an extreme hike up in Vail. So A lot of fundraising events, including we have also had a pretty we have a pretty robust annual fund and major gifts program and legacy giving program as well. And so we we do a lot, you know, and like many, many other nonprofits, we made the pivot to the virtual world and figured out how to create a virtual Gala. And so which I think is up on YouTube, and I can make sure I have the link. And really did our best last year to still bring in those needed funds. Because the thing about the foundation is every dollar that comes in, really, the more money we have, the more research we can do.

I love the singular focus of your mission, I don't feel like I hear that a lot. And it's like, it really is that simple that we're we literally exist to find a cure for this. And I think that that is a really powerful thing. And it makes the narrative and the storytelling so incredibly important. Because everything is pointing to the one thing, we're going to dive into grief informed workplaces. And I think this is so interesting to have a discussion on this, because it's not something I think that people talk about, often. And I love that Mike pitch this to us to talk about. And this is something I think that we need to work through just having this conversation and working through grief and loss in the nonprofit sector. I think compassion fatigue is a thing. I think just trying to assist your families, and your patients that you're serving has got to be a daunting thing. So can you kind of walk us through your philosophy and how you've created a grief informed workplace in your part of the world?

Yeah, so it's, it's been it's been a journey, I'll say that. So, you know, I don't think in any of our job descriptions, you know, working in the medical field and working with families. And, you know, especially here in Seattle, working with families who have lost somebody throughout the years, and, you know, it's not on my job description to go to funerals, and things like that. So it was a pretty, it was a pretty, I'll say, it was a surprise for me. Um, you know, when I, when that when that became a reality here at this job. You know, I thought we had a nice little office, and then we worked with families, and it was great. And then all of a sudden, we're getting notifications that we lost a community member. And it was really hard. And it's and so I reached out to my, my boss, who said, Yeah, you're right, it is really hard. You know, and so one of the things that I really, truly appreciate about the CF foundation is that they heard that from what they were hearing that from lots of people that we want people to be to stay working here, we also understand that there's a, you know, emotional tax really, on what this job can do, because we're working with families that the reality for many of them is is tough. And so what the foundation did, was they put together a team of people from all over the country from different chapters, in different places in our main office in Bethesda to come together and basically do a train the trainer model, to train a group of us to then go out and work with other chapters and other teams throughout the foundation to basically help them become better and more comfortable in dealing with loss and grief in the workplace. So they went out and hired or worked with a third party Group, a grief counseling center out of New Jersey, who came in and did the training. And it was intense, like, it was very intense. You know, one of the things I think you all appreciate, one of the things that we did, as a part of that was that we had to create our own kind of grief map throughout the years and then share it. It was really tough, you know, being from Oklahoma City to talk about 1995. And what that was like. And luckily one of my colleagues who was from Oklahoma City, and also in the room with us that day, like, was able to help me like get through that and understood where I was coming from, because it's just such a unique experience. But, um, you know, you we just, we don't talk about things like that, right? Like you don't cover what it's like to talk about loss and talk about grief in a workplace or, you know, everybody has these grief beliefs that they grew up with. And most of them are you keep your mouth shut, right. It's just not not really talked about. And so the upper level, folks at the CF foundation said, we want to change that, because we think it's not healthy for our staff. And we want to better serve our community. So there are a lot of things we took out of that, you know, one of the biggest things I took away from my training, and then also going out and implementing the training was that this idea of loss is this huge ripple effect that we just don't really think about in terms of it touching so many different things, right. And so when you think about a family with cystic fibrosis, you know, we get a call a couple times a year, from a parent who literally has a five day old child saying, I just got a call from or we just met with our doctor at Children's Hospital, our child has CF, what do we do? And it's hard. So all of that vision that they had for their child's life for their life just changed. And that's loss, right? Like, I think so many times we define losses, the somebody is actually gone and not here anymore. But what the training did for me and what working at the foundations really don't want me is really broaden that, that we need to support all of our community members through all of the losses they're experiencing, right, the loss of their dreams, also, maybe financial resources due to having a child or a spouse with a disease or a family member with a disease. You know, and it can just be really, really hard on the community. And so what we're trying to do is create better informed staff members to better support the community. And then I went out and last January, February, I did a couple in person trainings out in California, and, you know, it was it was, it was hard, it was hard to talk about, you know, it's not something people are really necessarily comfortable with, it's not something

I'm comfortable with on a day to day basis. And there are limits to my, you know, levels of how comfortable I am on a date on different days. Right. So, um, yeah, I just, I think that it's a really important topic that especially working in the medical world, in the healthcare world, is a reality, right. I mean, you know, from working in hospitals, like, sometimes people come in the doors, and they don't, they get to leave the doors and, and, but they are family. And one of the things that I've always, you know, tried to tell people through my training and through the trainings I'm doing and the team that we're working on nationally, that's doing the trainings is this idea that so many people, including myself, are just afraid to say anything because you're afraid to say the wrong thing. And so it really is truly okay to mess up as long as you improve and know what to do the next time. So, you know, that's the one thing I'll share that I try to do is I always try to offer comfort and support to families, and do my best and have definitely said the wrong thing before. You know, when somebody has had a time of need, but you know, work to improve and always try to get better. We're

taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, who happens to be one of our favorite companies virtuous, you know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see an activate donors at every level. And virtuous is the platform to help you do just that. It's so much more than a nonprofit CRM. virtuous helps charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising. And we love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized donor engagement. Some, like virtuous may be a fit for your organization, learn more today@virtuous.org Follow the link in our show notes are yours and healthcare philanthropy, we certainly believe that philanthropy is part of the healing power, you know, it has a healing power. And so I know stepping into some of those uncomfortable places or being available to families that are undergoing some of the most painful situations or ongoing situations and their why philanthropy can be this beacon of hope, you know, and I think that's one of the most rewarding things about being in this space in philanthropy, too, is that you get to help connect those dots for a family, you get to be this kind of legacy that they can create. And so I'm just curious if you kind of talk about it through the lens of the things that you've learned with how do you interact with donors that are experiencing grief? And how do you help support them? And also channel if it makes sense from a philanthropic perspective? How do you do that?

Yeah, I, I will say I feel like the CF foundation is a community and the CF community around the foundation and head because we are so mission driven by that focus of finding a cure. It really does. That that makes it that helps, right, that when you're going to a family to talk to them about continuing their involvement or getting more involved. So many of our families are so bought into the mission already that it's not, it's not a tough conversation, right? You know, I'm not trying to get them to name a building. I'm not trying to, you know, start up a new program. We're trying to find a cure for either their child or someone else's child, and they get it because they've lived it. And so for us, it really is about staying sticking to the mission. I think that families are appreciative of what we do. I have never worked somewhere where I have been thanked by major donors more than here they are so it was uncomfortable for me at the start where I was feeling like I was asking them for money and they would say thank you for doing this because we're We're working, and we're trying to help them as a family and stay together and keep their kids safe and healthy. And so, um, you know, it, it's hard. You know, we have families who've lost somebody 30 years ago who are still with us today, fundraising and attending events and, and we have families who have multiple kids with CF, some who are doing great, some who are not doing great. And so it is a real challenge. But for me, it's the stick to the mission, stick to, you know, making sure that they know we're here to support them at all times. We have started a couple other kind of initiatives here at the foundation over the last couple of years that have really helped that. So we now do a pre COVID now and COVID times are virtual, but we did what was called cares events, which was basically just an opportunity to host family members to get together and talk, right, like we weren't pitching them on fundraising, we weren't pitching them on supporting the foundation, we just said, Hey, you all this group of 10 people, you all have a kid under the age of two, get in a room, talk to each other, support each other, and then tell us how we can better support you. So you know, we've really tried to increase our outreach to families and make sure that they know that if there is things going on, we're here to help and we have resources. And we can definitely point them in the right direction, either within our resources or for outside resources and other families.

Okay, a couple things I want to highlight and what you said there, because I really think what you just said was really, really smart. Having a care of it is so smart, because we keep hearing over and over on this podcast that nonprofits are weakened by their ability not to listen. And already you have built a platform and a space to allow your parents to come in, talk to each other, get that support. And then the 2.0 version of that is tell us what you need. And so even by virtue of listening, your compassion and your empathy is growing, your understanding of what life looks like for these families is informed. And then you can take that and put it into your your programs in your fundraising, which I think is just brilliant. So that's one, two, I just want to give CFF, the biggest shout out and Bravo for focusing on mental health, because they're just not this is like, again, the elephant in the room and nonprofit, that we are not taking care of ourselves. And we are not focusing on how can we take care of ourselves so that we can take care of our families, our patients, our students, our whatever our target audience is. And it just makes me feel so good to know that there is some intentionality and, and funding behind this. And I'm curious to know from your perspective, Mike, since you have done that, since you have put together these grief maps and gone through this training, how has it changed the culture of your organization?

Yeah, so good, really good question. So I will say our Chief Operating Officer, I remember when I first started, his main initiative was to decrease staff attrition, right, like he said, we have too many people leaving our profession, our company leaving the profession, we need to keep our staff. And so really, for the past four years, there have been multiple steps here at the Foundation, to try to increase the amount of people stay, which is extremely appreciated. And, you know, the grief and loss support network that we're building, I think is one piece of that. You know, they've also been very clear that the amount of work chapters are doing, they would like to see us work smarter, not harder. You know, I think the amount of events we've done has gone down, we've done fewer events, but somehow we raise just as much if not more money. So we really are trying to be put our own staff time mental health at the forefront of what we're doing. Because the longer than what I mean, I think what makes sense is the longer you have staff together and the staff is there, the better people can do their work and the more community buys in and the more connections you're building, and so having this revolving door is really tough. And so yeah, the foundation was amazing at both just providing the basic necessities to keep people here, and then also that mental health piece. So I mean, it is it's, it has been tough. You know, the last year as I've heard on your podcast, many people discuss, you know, but we have been able to stick together. And we've been able to provide we I mean we've gotten a ton of resources through our National Office to get us the support we need both through like our HR department, but also through peer mentoring. We made the switch pretty early on to I'm sort of using team Microsoft Teams more to better connect, and they created affinity groups. And so we actually have a grief and loss support affinity group where people can join if, you know, they, as a staff member have had to go through an experience of loss. And so, um, you know, it really is a place where people and the the HR and the, you know, our C level, folks are really sticking to this idea that they want people here and they are willing to provide the supports necessary.

I'm giving a round of applause.

So friends in leadership, invest in your people invest in their mental health. Okay, hearing that.

So we want to, we like to ask everybody about a story in philanthropy that has touched your heart, like what is a story that sticks with you? It can be with CFF, it can be anywhere, what's one that resonates?

Yeah, so I mean, having done nonprofit work for 2020 years, now, I'm actually just gonna go my most recent one. Um, so I last couple weeks, I've had the opportunity to go over and volunteer at a pretty significant sized vaccine clinic that they're doing at the University of Denver. So they were giving vaccines to about 3000 people a day. And just the the, the opportunity to go over there and volunteer, wipe down chairs, push wheelchairs, point, you know, wipe wipe clipboards down, it was really impressive to see the logistics come together. You know, as somebody who works in the event space, it's really hard to organize something in the nonprofit world where you're giving, you know, a pretty universal, you're given a pretty universal thumbs up by 3000 people a day, right? It was fascinating to watch the nurses, the doctors, the volunteers, the staff, from the University of Denver come in and organize things. Um, and so just getting to see that, and honestly, I think, you know, in 20 years with my grandkids, maybe longer, we'll be reading about this in history books. And about that time, and it's just, it's crazy to think that like, what we're doing the things that are happening now or one day going to be historic, and to be a part of that. And just to see how thankful the world currently is these days after 12 months of pretty bleak news. So it has just been was really, it's just it's been really amazing to see the amount of giving and the amount of support and the amount of time going in to keep and make people more healthy.

I love that story. So I have actually a personal connection and in a roundabout way to see a foundation. And I was volunteer for Make a wish during my time at OSU and I met the most outstanding elementary kid named Sam. And prior to this interview, I actually reached out to his mom and asked if she or Sam had anything to share, just for their love of CF foundation. So I have a little something that I would like to read and I think it perfectly paints the picture of how powerful the work is that you do and not just your chapter, but all the chapters around the world. So this is from misty. My name is misty Wilson, the mom of Sam Smith, Sam was diagnosed with cystic fibrosis at two weeks old. I quickly discovered what CF was and began to wonder if Sam would ever have a normal life given the short lifespan at the at the time of less than 40 years old. Shortly after that, I was put in touch with the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation in Oklahoma City. That is where I met Sam's angels Celia Palmer and Karen Adams from the sooner chapter are Sam second moms. They work tirelessly every day along with numerous others from CF chapters across the country to help CF families navigate through doctor's treatments and emotional challenges. Not only are they like a family to us, but each year they help raise 1000s of dollars to find a cure for CF. The common phrase I hear is not until it's done. This phrase means more to my family than those of the CF foundation will ever know. It means there are people out there who are fighting for us and those like us every day and will not quit until everyone with CF has their cure. We have the peace of mind knowing that the CF foundation along with the executive director Mike Turner will never stop will never give up and will never leave those with CF to fight this fight alone. Thank you a million times over for everything you do for us and for all the families just like us. The following is a poem Sam wrote a few years ago to go with his painting auctioned off at the CF annual gala. His CF doctor at the time James royal bought it to add to his collection of Sam's paintings. He now has four of Sam's paintings. Dr. Royle is retired now, but says every time he sees Sam's paintings on the wall, it makes him smile. And this is my dream is for scientists to create a magic pill to make cystic fibrosis go away. I want to be able to play inside. Instead of doing treatments every day, I want to be able to eat without taking medicine, I want to be able to travel without more luggage than my mom, I want to be able to have a sleep over without worrying about if I had any. If I had my treatments, I want to stay at school for recess, instead of going to the doctor, I want to go straight to lunch without stopping by the nurse's office first to get my medicine. I want to go camping without my therapy machine. I want to feel normal. Like all the other kids who don't have CF, I want to take a deep breath without coughing. I want to run down the street without getting tired. I want to make my stomach stop hurting. I want to throw my therapy machine in the trash. I want to die of old age instead of CF, I want to never stop fighting for a cure. I just think that paints such a perfect picture. And while he lives in Oklahoma, and you may not have ever met him, the work you all are doing and anyone listening that maybe has not heard of this foundation is so crucial and so important. And so nice.

We're like all crying. I know. And I have to be I have to be honest that we john and i had not heard that letter we didn't want to we wanted to like experience it with you. And it was Yeah. Anyway, oh,

yeah, I spent 16 years, you know, in education and didn't shed a tear, I don't think and literally weekly, if not, you know, monthly, if not weekly. Now. Something like that will come through hearing our families talk at our events, hearing them, you know, talk when we're talking, just chatting. It's, this is emotional work. Yeah. And I'll say like, I know Celia, and I know, Karen, and they're amazing. And the staff in Oklahoma City is fantastic. And that was so nice. That was that was made my day made my week. Thank you.

And I just have to say, for anyone listening, you know, if you've never worked in what I would almost call the Grateful patient space. And I think that that could be applied to any nonprofit mission. I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be the medical field, it could be getting a scholarship, it could be the beneficiary of social services, but when you are on the receiving end of that, and it's something as deeply personal as your child. And I mean, I'm sorry, I'm just as a parent, I'm trying to reconcile those words and even allowing sweet Sam like to give a voice to what he's feeling and saying that I want to, I want to die of old age and not have CF. I mean, immediately. I mean, I'm shocked. I'm not on CF 's website right now making a gift because that is how powerful that it made me feel like I want to be a part of creating, you know, things that he could do in retirement, I want to I want to be a part of missions like that. And I just think that if this is a lesson to anybody, it's like give a microphone to your people. Because I have to say that if you had no connection to CF, before you listen to this, I can imagine that if you heard that letter, you would want to be a part of the movement that is fighting for the Sams of the world. So thank you, Julie for doing that. That was a really sweet, sweet gesture.

That was really nice. Thank you. And please pass along my thanks to Sam and his family and misty that was that was really moving.

And they love the chapter here they're active and even after they Sam received his Make a wish to go to Australia they're really active in Make a wish Oklahoma here. They're just they're a wonderful family. And I know that they're grateful every day for the work that the team out here in Oklahoma City and around the nation do too as well.

And thank you Julie for being a college student who worked her little Fanny off to create that wish experience for Sam building that incredible Australia trip so you're just a gem of a human.

He deserves it

you have a lot to dedicate this episode to

I know all the fields all the Kleenex So

Mike, we appreciate you listen to the podcast you know we ask all of our guests What's one good thing and I don't know what you're gonna give us but I know it's gonna be epic some on the edge of mercy.

epics epics a big word. Although I'm sorry, I'm sorry, john. I'm gonna go back to the sports thing. Yes. Do

I need all the education?

Oh, I'm really into right now the movie and the themes from a Moneyball so my team is probably laughing at me because I bring this up almost daily. We need to Moneyball fundraising. I have been so frustrated for so many years. Throughout my career that, oh my gosh, we lost a $50,000 grant, we lost a $25,000 donor, who's our next $25,000 donor. That's not how it works, right? Like, you can't just replace things, one for one. And so that's kind of the premise of both the book and the movie Moneyball based on the 2002 season of the Oakland A's where they lost three of their best players did not have the money to replace those players at the same level. So what they did is they picked a metric. And that metric was do they get done? Do these baseball players get on base? And they said, Well, we can't replace these other things, let's just make sure that we figure out how to replace they're on base percentage. And so they picked a single metric, and said, we're going to use that to replace it. So what we do at the CF foundation with our team, is, anytime we have we have lost two families who have moved to other states and are now involved in other chapters, for example, both were 15 to $25,000, fundraisers, fundraising teams, for us, that's a big, big hit to our fundraising bottom line. We don't necessarily have you know, one or two teams ready to step up into that role to fully replace that. But do we have 10 teams that we can work with, or 10 families that we can work with to each raise an additional 2000 this year. And so really, for me, you know, when I talked to my team about, you know, we need to Moneyball this situation, it really is about finding the small incremental growth places that can help you get those ultimate big wins. You know, and I just don't think, and I've heard you all talk about it on the podcast before about really celebrating those $5 donors and celebrating, you know, the the small wins, because they add up, right, like little things that you don't think are going to move the needle, if you get enough of those together, you you will move the needle and you will hit your big goals. And so I talk I talk a lot about Moneyball, and I bring up YouTube and meetings, and I forced them to watch clips. So it's, that's my thing right now. And so I just encourage everybody, don't always try to think of the one to one replacement. Think of the 10 to one replacement, by being strategic and being smart about those conversations and those families and folks and donors you're working with.

Okay, john, he delivered because he is talking about your favorite topic of all time, which is remembering the base because the base is eroding. We know this as we look at, you know, historical data. And we have to value that everyone matters. So I'm sorry, john, I'm sure you have.

No, I mean, it's all of our values all in one. And plus, I'm thinking your example. Now you have 10 donors, you have 10 people that are activated on your mission sort of one. Like it's just flipping the script on it. I love. I love that. And maybe I'll go watch Moneyball now.

It's amazing. They bring an economist in to be their recruiter. And it's hysterical. It is so brilliant. And we didn't even say I mean, I don't want to spoil the end. But it has quite an amazing and outcome to it at the very end. And it's funny. So please go very in training. for nonprofits, who knows, and the importance of data, so thank you for that. Okay, Mike. So how can people find you? Where are you on social? Where can they connect with CFF, whether it's your chapter or any chapters, help people get excited and get connected?

Yeah, so the CF Foundation, we have over 70 chapters across the country. So there are chapters active in every single state. There are events, I think, in all the two states that are put on by us, but we have families living in every single state. So cff.org, super easy website, six letters at a period. So cff.org it has how to get involved, you can find your chapter. I'm in Denver. So if there's anyone in Denver that wants to get connected, I am on LinkedIn. So I'd say that's probably the easiest place to find me. I'm also on Strava. I don't know if anyone has brought up their Strava account before

but he has please talk.

I, my COVID hobby has become cycling. And so I'm really into riding my bike. And so I'm really into Strava and tracking riding my bike. So if there are anybody out there listening or watching that wants to hit me up on Strava I think I'm just Mike Turner on everything.

Yeah, thank you for pouring into this space. Thank you for saying yes to switching your career paths. There's so many more people for the better as a result of it. So thank you for this time.

It's been such a gift to see your passion just on fire right now and to see that you're in exactly the space that you need to be. And I will say I feel like you achieved your goal that you went to a great place with good people and you're doing extremely good work.

Thank you all so much.

Thanks for listening to today's conversation. And we hope you're done wiping away your mascara after listening to this episode, and we hope that grief informed workplace training is something you'll consider pursuing if it makes a fit for you. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission. That's why we'd love for you to join our good community it's our own social network and a place to meet new friends find inspiration and help you when you feel stuck. Sign up today at we are for good calm backslash Hello. One more thing if you love what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating a review? It really means the world to us and helps more people find our good community. Our production hero count Sam is her personal hero Julie conference. Hello. Our theme song is sunray by Rumi Boris boom go rock this week do gooders