98. Diversifying the Talent Pipeline in Philanthropy - Karon Moody Harden

10:27PM Mar 26, 2021

Speakers:

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Karon Moody Harden

Keywords:

philanthropy

people

foundations

council

community

sector

folks

power

leaders

journey

rest

incredible

funders

world

thinking

opportunity

organization

virtuous

listen

philanthropic

Hey, I'm john.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast.

nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community, where nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Welcome, welcome. Hey, Becky, what's going on,

I'm so happy because this is such an amazing day to bring in incredible humans, we are bringing in a North Carolina girl today who is not in North Carolina. And we're talking about something that I had never heard about an organization, I'd never heard about it. And when we started digging into it, it was like, these are our people. And they are subscribing to the same beliefs that we are in. And it's a resource. So anyone who is listening in right now, buckle up, because Karen is about to blow your mind with all of the incredible tips that she is going to bring. So we are so blessed today to bring in Karon Moody Harden. She's the VP of programs and pure engagement at Council on foundations. And there are people at home that's like, Hi, Becky, how do you not know Council on foundations, I don't know what I didn't know. But I'm so excited to them now. So just want to give a little bit of background on Khurana and then I'm gonna kick it to her. She is this incredible season well respected expert in training, adult education and professional development. So she has taken all of that and dedicated her career to helping to empower leaders. And she prior to joining the council, she spent all this time on the hill, Capitol Hill, she's in the DC area at the National Association of Counties just overseeing leadership and training for local elected officials nationwide. So she has got just a breadth of experience in this sector. And she's pouring it in to all of us, you know, people who are working for the common good and social good the nonprofit sector. And there's even some for profit in here, which I'm excited to dive into. So she's got a Bachelor of Science and community health education from North Carolina Central University. And she even has Graduate Studies degree in Public Health from Howard University and an MBA, just casual. I know, it's like this woman knows her her stuff. And we're just so blessed to have you here. So hi, Karon, welcome to our show.

Hi, thanks for having me. I'm so excited.

We're so delighted that you're here. I mean, I've given a little bit of background here. But I would love for you to kind of just talk about your career journey. And what led you to get into this training and education and really just this concept of tossing a stone in someone's hand and helping them grow and evolve and training. So yeah, we'd love to hear your story.

Yeah, so I you know, as you mentioned, I'm originally from North Carolina. So I, I will say I describe myself as being a southern belle turn city girl. Because I've been in the DC area for almost 20 years now. And I came here for graduate school when I was at Howard University. So I'm a behavioral scientist by training. My undergraduate degree is in public health and masters and my MBA. And so, you know, I think for me, originally, I just thought I want to do what I can do to help change the behavior in communities. And so that's what public health is all about. And somewhere along the way, I was working for an accrediting organization here in the DC area that accredits schools and programs in public health. And that really brought me to this systemic level of looking at how we can change a public health and that we're looking at the leaders and public health practitioners and people that we're going to be eventually doing the work, how do we best prepare them for the roles that we want them to have? And so that really caused me to take a step back, and opened up this opportunity for leadership on the hill and working with elected officials, which parlayed into philanthropy, because a lot of the work I was doing with the National Association of Counties. I was working with funders and people that I'm working with now at the Council, but I was on the other side. And so being a grantee, it's a very different experience in orientation with philanthropy, and so this opportunity to really think about how I could play a role in preparing philanthropic leaders, thinking about what's important for them. And frankly, more importantly, diversifying the sector. Because that's where I spend a lot of my brainpower these days, is thinking about how to make philanthropy better reflect the communities that it's serving. So it was it was such a normal, natural evolution, if I'm completely honest, because so much of what I did when I was working with local elected officials, and getting them to feel empowered to lead and do the work in their communities, is very much transferable to the work that I'm doing with philanthropic leaders now. So it is not as far fetched as one might think it is.

Your mind just must be blown being in knowing your pedigree, and knowing your background of the last year of public health. I mean, who would have thought, but I think you're right, that unity is the only answer to, to this problem at this point. And if we're not pulling in the same direction, then we're sitting in what we are currently sitting in right now. So very interesting. And

I feel like your story too, just like you were you were so well prepared to show up and serve so deeply in this space in this position that you're in. So I just love, I love seeing when dots connect in such a natural, organic way that just lines up with a personal passion, too. Would you kind of give us some context around Council of Foundations. I mean, it's new to us. But obviously, you have an incredible footprint, would you kind of share a little bit about what y'all do day to day, and how you show up and serve the foundations that are part of that.

Yeah, I'm happy to do that. So the Council on foundations has been around for a long time, actually, since 1949. And it was really, at that time created to, to support the needs of the emerging field of philanthropy, which specifically at that time was more so community philanthropy. And so in the year since then, obviously, philanthropy has changed. It's expanded to include foundations, across many spectrums and audiences, we have nearly 800 members at the Council currently, that's private foundations, that's corporate foundations, obviously, community foundations are a huge part of our members. And we're increasingly serving other givers as well, because those who structure themselves differently in new ways, as the time has evolved, so philanthropy, and how it was defined in 1949, obviously looks very different. Now in 2021. So, you know, we see ourselves at the Council is, philanthropy is a trusted partner in advancing the greater good, that is really the cornerstone of our work, and what we're focused on right now. And so we do that by a number of ways, one, fostering an environment where philanthropy can thrive. And that's through our policy work getting to the work that we do on the hill, obviously, our close relationship with those that are leading advocacy. And the other way, I would say is fostering and cultivating a community of diverse and skilled philanthropic professionals and organizations, and really empowering them to lead with integrity, to serve as ethical stewards that's really important these days. And advocating for progress. And so we do all of that, obviously, through training through our convenings, the resources, best practices, and we are such a huge connector. And so a lot of our work is creating the space for our members to come together and learn from each other and grow. And so, you know, if I would single point to, you know, an area that that I see the most value in a lot of the work that we do is being this bridge, and being able to bring the voices together to share. And so that's, I would say, highly valuable in the spectrum of the work that we do.

I love this conversation. I know, I know. And we're, like really dive in and dig into it, and it's gonna be fun. So the thing that I noticed when I was on your website, and the thing that I think I love the most is when you have these big dreamy visions like you've had, and I love that that the mission hasn't changed since the 40s. It's just so fantastic. And this bedrock of just community being the basis and empathy and learning and growing and lifting each other up. I think the thing that I liked the most about your structure is this concept of cohorts. And I and I feel like cohorts are just now really starting to come out into the digital space. And I want you know, there's probably some people that are like what is a cohort and I don't know what that is. But I, I want you to talk about the power in bringing people together in a space and having an experiencial training where people are seeing each other and speaking up and learning from each other and the empathy mindset that's building and the creativity that I'm sure is exploding and the personal testimony talk about just that cohort experience and what it's been like to serve your organization.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the things that that really comes to mind is we've been at the Council, we've been in a position of transition over the past six years, we got a new CEO, just about two years ago. And so since that time, we've been really grappling with who we are, who we want to be in the world, the past year really kind of amplified that. And so as we've been thinking just strategically about the organization that we want to be, and how do we do the work that we set out to do, one of the things that's very clear for us is we have the power to bring people together, to your point about cohorts. So we recognize the power and the magic of convening voices from all across philanthropy, diverse perspectives, we like to say bridging divides. And so really creating those opportunities for folks to listen, but also to learn from each other. And so part of the work that we want to see happen in philanthropy, if we want to address the complex issues, we want to address the systemic issues. And we want to have a deeper understanding right of what's happening, we have got to figure out how to come together and have a meaningful conversation or a meaningful partnership. And so we've been doing our work to figure out, what is the role that we play there? What is the role philanthropy plays, so that we could just start there with baseline, and not necessarily going immediately to having the solution? But how do we at least just convene the folks together? And sometimes, we're all on the same page, but more often than not, we are not all on the same page. And so how do you really get in pursuit of the progress and the change, right, that is so desperately needed, if we can't even have a common thread or theme in with the issues.

And I love that you start with philanthropy, and it's like, everyone can get around, that everyone can get around the idea that we're going to start at a place where we're going to serve others. And that, to me, is such the genius of what you've done. Because we've been talking a lot, at least john and i have on our Friday podcast about cognitive diversity. And we agree with you that, you know, we are we all have different backgrounds, we have different experiences, we have different values, and we're in different places in the world. And so we're not all going to think the same and what if that's just okay, what if the one thing that we can bring to the table is the ability to listen, you know, and, and, and under MB open to a shared experience. And so I just think I look at your list, which, by the way, they have an alumni list on the website, we'll put it into the show notes. I'm like, there's the Rockefeller Foundation. There's the program officer for the Walmart foundation.

Yes. Before this started, no,

I doubt and I went down the rabbit hole, but it's like, but even you see, like Pay Pal and Timberland like, like these are for profit in some of our retail. And it's just very heartwarming to me that people from all of those avenues can come together and just say, Hey, this is what we're facing. And we don't know how to deal with it. And having just some of this training, and again, to that experiencial nature of it is is just genius. And so I'm doing anything, I'm just clicking on that little applause emoji on my zoom.

Well done. Well, and I want to say like, I want to be clear, like career pathways, which thank you for lifting this up. It is our flagship leader development program. And let me be honest, like how we even got started with this. So the council, we do some research where we gather data demographics across the sector. And so this was probably around 2009, which predated my time at the Council, by the way. But what we did is looked at the data at that time, which was our grant makers and salary benefits report. What we learned from the data in 2009, was that three quarters of CEOs, so we surveyed CEOs across the sector, three quarters of them came from outside of philanthropy, and 90% of them were white men. So that was really the genesis of why Do we care about this work? Why do we even care about diversifying the talent pipeline? And let me give you a picture of where we are today, because not much has changed since 2009. You know, our current GSB 2020 data says that people of color compromise about 27% of staff at those foundations that participated, 90% of the CEOs are still white 10% CEOs of color. And this number has remained unchanged for about the past five years, it virtually hasn't moved 35% of program officers are people of color. And the overall is around 77% women in the sector, but 68% of them are holding leadership roles. So when you look at the data now, and we can talk about career pathways, which is absolutely moving the needle in our small way to which is our effort in diversifying the talent pipeline. So if you look at pathways data with what the council is doing 46% of our current cohort, nearly half are black, with about 20% being white. And then if you look at, you know, the work that we've done since 2009, it's around 87% of our leaders who have gone through pathways, who have now moved on to these executive CEO roles across the sector. So for that little bit, like we are moving the needle in a very small way. But it doesn't really get to the larger systemic movement and the progress that we need to make across the sector. But I am incredibly proud of the progress that we're able to do within career pathways. Because to your point, we have a rockstar list of alumni that have gone through this program, that are running and leading a lot of the top philanthropic organizations and foundations. And so we've got good people in the right seats doing the work, who are deeply steeped in moving this equity journey along across the sector. But it does not get to the fact that we still have a whole lot of work to do.

Get ready, john, I'm going up on my soapbox, race yourself. I mean, that alone, right there tells me we're not doing enough, we're simply not doing enough, that points to the fact that the work still needs to be done. And and we can't just rely on, you know, the Council on foundations to pioneer it We can't just rely on some of these organizations are for profits, it's going to have to be an all hands on deck process. And it's gonna take a while. But that's why I'm so happy that everyone is here listening right now. Because we all have a role to play in this. And educating ourselves is got to be like number one, sitting down and having coffee with someone who looks different sounds different has experienced different things than you could be step two, you know, and once we begin to get that lightbulb moment of, Oh, I can see how different My world is from this person? How do we equalize that? How do we bring more voices to the table? You know, we talk about being a company all the time that's making room for everyone at our table. And we've got to figure out what are the tenants that we can employ to bring those mindsets. And I would say not only into your mission and your philanthropy, but into your social circles in your neighborhoods, and your churches in your, you know, wherever you are in the world. And I have to tell you, that is a challenge that I tried to put on myself. And I feel like I have been left wanting it, you know, I'm not doing what I need to be doing. And so I really appreciate that we're bringing this conversation up. And I appreciate that we can point to science and statistics that say, this is where the needle is, and we've got to do something radically different to shift it. Okay, john, I'm off my soapbox.

I love your soapbox. And I want to piggyback and just say, I love that you talk about the pipeline of diversity talent, too. Because that's a word that every fundraising development shop thinks about. I mean, we talk about our pipeline all the time. And it speaks to that the solution is not just check the box and let's get to a certain percentage of CEOs because that's not addressing the problem either. It's looking at a whole pipeline what's it going to be for our kids generation and the generation that's going to be leading in a couple years like it's addressing it at every level and so very much here for that and and love what you're doing?

Yeah, and I'll just build on that. Like, you know, when I get this question all the time, it's like what's next? What do you do what's you know, how can we move the the system's level change and diversifying ideally? Because pathways is a very individual yet institutional level of progress. But what else We'll say is like as a first step, leaders in philanthropy need to work with their board, they need to start to engage, and really be honest about where they are on their equity journey, so they can understand what voices and perspectives are missing. I love the point you just made about the table. Because Listen, that is where these decisions for CEOs and executives and the folks who are leading philanthropy, it is not the CEO saying, Oh, this is my successor, it is the board, it is the trustees, it is communities that need to be engaged. And so they have a role. And so they could be very much missing, what it might mean for their own leadership if they are not bought into why this is so important and supportive of that, because the boards are the folks that have the power, they are hiring the new executives, they are the greatest leverage point I like to say when it comes to making progress on overall field diversity, yet, they along with the other executive leaders, they are the critical shapers of the culture, because there's one thing to bring people in the door. But there's a whole nother thing to make sure that they are set up for success. And they are being given the opportunity to thrive and succeed, which often is a struggle for people of color if you're coming into an organization, because to your point, if you are just checking the box, it is not okay to just bring someone in and say, well, you're on your own feed for yourself and not give them the support that they need to really be successful. So we've got to do the work as philanthropic leaders, because we have a responsibility, I feel like I'm preaching right now we have a responsibility to do the deep work, you know, to really reflect on the change that they want that we want to see. And to explore how we can all be a part of that change. Because we all do have a very important piece in the leveraging of the change in the power. But it's gonna take the collective contributions of all of us to see where we fit in and to, and to really lean into the ownership that we have.

Hey, friends, this episode is presented by virtuous and they just happened to be one of our favorite companies. Let me tell you why. You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see and activate donors at every level. And here's the thing, virtuous created a fundraising platform to help you do just that. It's much more than a nonprofit CRM. virtuous is committed to helping charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, which is simply putting the donor at the center of fundraising, growing giving through personalized donor journeys. And by helping you respond to the needs of every individual. We love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty, your personalized engagement, sound like virtuous may be a fit for your organization, learn more today@virtuous.org or follow the link in our show notes.

Okay, if you get nothing out of this podcast episode, that right there was the cliff notes money version of this conversation. So if everyone listening could take away one thing from this, I just think that was a huge, a huge hack. Start with your board. Be honest about where you are in your equity journey. And I would even entertain, start the plan there. brainstorm your goals, where do we want to be? Have them buy into that create actionable points to show them how they can be a part of that report back often about where you are making this something that where we celebrate the win? And then what will that do for the board member, we know this, because we cultivate people all the time, they're going to want to keep going more and more, they're going to keep wanting to, you know, cast their net further, they're gonna feel great about it. And I would just have to think that that would have to trickle down, you know, into the organization and into their, wherever they're coming from their for profit, if that's where they are. So this is just a very smart starting point. For everyone who's saying, I want to do this, I don't know where to start. There's your starting point. below. And

let me just say this, there are a lot of folks out there in the sector that are doing this work and doing it remarkably well. And so don't try to reinvent the wheel, you know, find the resources happen to the networks and the communities and folks that are doing this work that have been steeped in this work at this equity work, that have the the reputation that have the respect that have the recognition, and and I can guarantee we all want to be supportive. The Council is still very much on its own equity journey as we all are, you never really arrived and so We're always continuing to do the work. But there are so many great partners out there, especially in the philanthropic sector of folks who care about this, who wake up thinking about it every day. And so I encourage folks to leverage the resources that are out there. Because at the end, wherever you are, in your journey, some people may be at the very beginning of their runway. And that's okay. Because the folks that are not that are at the end of the runway, they were once at the beginning of the runway. And so the journey, the journey always starts at someplace,

yeah, but it does start, action. And action is an action. So everybody, look around and see where you can start this conversation by the seat of your house that you're at. Okay, there's one other thing I wanted to bring up, something that I think the council has been a huge supporter of a conversation that needed to be lifted in our industry was COVID-19 rolls out, it was an incredible unprecedented year in so many different ways. And we know typically foundations are somewhat slow moving in there. No sense we love you, and we love your processes. But this presented this opportunity that we need to have decisive action and to have unrestricted funding available. And I just applaud the council for leaning in locking arms and getting more people to sign this pledge. I wonder if you'd share a little bit about that I probably completely, you know, bumbled it a little bit in my explanation of it. But I think it was really cool and relevant, which y'all did, and real timely. So I'd love to just give some airtime to that.

Yeah, absolutely. So this started, obviously, with the onset of COVID-19. And the pandemic, and very early on, we had this opportunity to really join in this call to action for the sector, and there's nearly 800 organizations just shy a few shy of 800 organizations that have signed on to the pledge, which is huge. And it really is, you know, our opportunity to find the influencers, the funders, the leaders, those across the sector, to join in making these commitments, saying, you know, what, this is how we are going to do our what might be a small part or big part. But either way, we are doing our part, to be able to show that we care, to help those that are in need, particularly community based organizations, folks that might not otherwise have access to funders and these organizations, but really, what is the role that we can play. And so in a time of critical need, we had to cast the wet but the net wide, I should say, because it was quite a shock for what we were all experiencing. And so we've been incredibly, I think, just blown away by the response to the pledge, which we signed on to were a signatory of the pledge, but also being able to really share and promote it, which has been incredible. And it just, you know, part of the pledges, like loosening the restrictions on the grants, you know, making it feasible. And giving folks particularly nonprofits, NGOs, like giving them the opportunity to do the work that they're doing in an unrestricted support, kind of way accelerating, getting the money to the folks that need it, get it in, in the communities, a lot of emergency response funds were created, listening to partners always like to underscore that because, you know, I think we often dismiss the power that comes from listening to our partners, them feeling like they're being heard, lifting up their voices and their experiences, so that we are better informed to make the decisions as funders and the council is not a funder, but certainly foundations are they are in positions of power and influence. And so we don't need funders saying, This is what you need in x community. We know how to fix that problem, but instead, take the time to listen to the folks that have boots on the ground. Learn from them, you know, it's almost like you have two ears, one mouth, you know, right

now, you know, so listen, listen to your partners, listen to the grantees. And so really taking a step back. And so it's been it's just been an incredible opportunity, I think, to show the support across the sector at a time that was obviously unplanned, unprecedented. But the the power of the community and the network coming together. It's been beautiful to watch. And just this thread of listening just seems like a constant in this conversation today and the need to listen and it's in its ironic because when we talk to big philanthropist on the show, that's the thing that they tell us that they have noticed that non professional nonprofit professionals do not do well, is listen, which is really ironic. And so I really like that, that is a common theme of this conversation. And I have to think that giving them that gift, they probably didn't think it was a gift when you're asking to sign that pledge, but to be less rigid, and to be more fluid, probably, I don't know. But I would guess because I understand how philanthropy works. It gave them such a full heart that their dollars were doing exactly what their foundations were set up to do, which is probably to serve to make the world better. And that it was so needed in that moment, I would I would get you have incredible stories from any of those 800 about who has shifted and been able to fund things. And I would love for you to share just with our community a story of philanthropy that has touched you, it could be from one of these people who have signed this this pledge in the last year or just on your career journey, what's been a moment in philanthropy that will stay with you forever.

You know, when I think about moment, and philanthropy that, that stay with me, I think about the leaders that I've been able to experience through career pathways, and we were just talking about this program, black and brown, particularly leaders that are continuing to shatter the ceiling. And I know we tend to say the glass ceiling, but often for people of color. You know, we know the glass ceiling is like this invisible barrier that hinders the advancement of particularly women in their professional lives. But I would say the concrete ceiling, similar to the grass, flats feeling is a difference. And in terms of what women of color are, often experience. And so with concrete ceiling and being able to break through by yourself. It's impossible to see through concrete, you know, there's no visible destination, just what seems like, like be defined as a dead end. And so that's often what women of color face in the sector and across many workforces. And so as we've made impressive strides, we are still dealing with unconscious bias, the competence gap and the lack of opportunity. But as I think about what really sits with me, and just a single moment, pride and appreciation, it is the fact that I have been able to be a front seat witness to so many incredible leaders that look like me, that are leading organization and doing incredible work across the sector. And so the fact that and please make no mistake, I don't credit myself or pathways for any of this, but the opportunity to be connected and to be a piece of their journey, a notch in that tool belt that helped propel them to where they are. That has been more rewarding, then anything.

Chronic is such a good you know, I'm

like I wanted to be my coach too.

I wonder to be like my mom hug. Like, I have to tell you that just the concept of a concrete ceiling is making me borderline weepy right now. I don't want to live in a world where people feel like they are facing concrete ceilings. I don't want my children to feel like in this lifetime that they are facing concrete ceilings, it makes me want to get my whole cans out. And just power through because the untapped potential in these individuals, the gifts that they could bring the empathy, and the different perspective, literally could be the thing that transforms our industry. So let's make some room and label and let's do the work next generations. Oh, yes. Yeah.

Okay, Karen, you can tell. We're hanging on every word you say? Yeah. And it's come to our favorite. last final question is what's your one good thing. This is something that, you know, could be a secret to success or a life hack or just something that you personally practice that you think could be transformational? What's your one good thing?

So I've been on this, I think for the past year, this notion of rest, So hear me out, and the power of rest. So there's this organization that I found not long ago called the nap ministry that really examines and looks at the lives Writing power of rest. And so literally their work uses rest as a tool for community healing. And so they they see rest as a form of resistance. And they name sleep deprivation, specifically, as a racial and social justice issue. And so their work is rooted in rest. And that really caused me to go on my own reconciliation of Crohn's rest. And what has been the lack of for a number of years. And so how I am, you know, really thinking about it is, you know, how do I dismantle the, the capitalism and the white supremacy that just comes from going, going, going going. And I think there's a place for that, and philanthropy I personally, see, rest is almost a spiritual practice. But it's so neglected and so overlooked, but there's so much power in our ability to rest. And what it does rejuvenate our minds and our bodies, it really sets us up to do our best work. And so as I think about my ancestors, and black people, present and past, and the intergenerational trauma that we've experienced, it is all often compounded as we've been forced every day to just deal with the hardships that come from systems that were oppressive and marginalizing. And so rest, for me is healing. It's revolutionary, it for me creates a space to be restored, to be empowered and to be healed. And so as a result of that, I find that rest brings me joy. Now, I've been on this journey. And so it has been such a shift for me to get to this place now. But I think we could all learn a little bit, if we just reconciled, how much rest how much influence that has on our life, and the power that that it has.

Ron, you may be the wisest person I've ever met. I, I am I need to reconcile this after we get off this call, and I need to understand it because I have never thought about it that way. And I think that, you know, we are huge promote proponents of mental health and self care. And that's something that I also think has been missing in the nonprofit world as we bootstrap everything. And we have to do more with less, and we're not, you know, equitably paid. And you can't do that because it'll show up on the 990. And there's just this GO GO GO mentality. And I have never once thought of it through the lens of diversity and my mind is blown. But I also think what you're saying there is applicable to every human on the planet and a digital world where we cannot escape from the constant. Ping the little red number one that's telling us we need to go do something. I mean, just learning how to be still, that was a seriously evolved one good thing and

the ministry, we will link this up, but just love that. Versus,

yeah, I'll just say I can't underscore how it is, especially in the season of stillness, right, of being present, is disconnecting. So for me, and I know that's an oxymoron. But for me being present right now is disconnecting and finding rest. And I just think that I don't want to, you know, fast forward pandemic is over, we're somewhat back to normal English. And I feel like I've squandered this time to really just sit still and be present. And, and so if there's anything for me, you know, some folks want to come out of this thing with a book. You know, they want to come out of here with all of these other accomplishments, I really wanted to use this time to just think about how to be a better me. And so for me that's resting and disconnecting

us this time to write a book to please, we will read that book and go

for a sermon or meditate meditative journal, or whatever it is.

How can people find you? How can they connect with you the council, we'd love to just you're gonna have a fan club.

Where are you on social somewhere?

Yes, I would love it. So the council where it's clf.org obviously all my information is there. I'm on LinkedIn to Ron moody harden. And I would love to be able to connect with folks about this work about pathways. I am so so very blessed to be able to do this work and have a home at the Council and a platform to do this work. So

I would love to hear from folks. And my final gift to you since you have given so much today is Quran is k r o n, please do not call her Karen, as we did when we first met her, we are going to help eradicate your name issue with everyone in the community co find Karen. That's how you can find her on LinkedIn. We'll also link it in the show notes.

Absolutely.

Thank you so much for what you're doing. And just this rest that you're bringing to the space to I feel like we just all took a big exhale together and just really appreciate this time. You're a great,

thank you. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. And I just want to salute you guys for the work that you're doing. Because we need it. And so platforms like this, you know, I always go back to one of my favorite scriptures and averages which is, you know, don't despise New Beginnings or small beginnings. And so doing this incredible work, because I there is a place for it. And I'm just grateful to be in this space with you guys today and be a part of this journey.

I adore you.

Thanks so much for listening to today's conversation with Karen about diversifying the talent pipeline and philanthropy. I hope you hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to come and join the good community. It's free and you can think of it as the after party to every podcast episode. Join us at we're for good calm slash Hello. One more thing if you love what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and Your support helps more people find and join this community. Thanks so much friends. Our production hero is one of our all time favorite peeps. Julie confort and our theme song is sunray by Remy boys boom go rock this week do gooders