The Intersection of Sales + Fundraising - Jake Savage

9:20PM Nov 24, 2021

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Jake Savage

Keywords:

fundraisers

people

nonprofit

fundraising

jake

run

moldova

story

year

world

donor

podcast

community

questions

helping

feel

door

friends

hear

called

Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more work, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Hey, Becky, Hey,

John, we got to run or no.

And he would put us to shame with his running. He's gonna tell you how about how much better of a runner he is.

He literally just ran 50 Miles like for charity. We are going to talk about that and dive into it. It is my great honor to introduce Jake savage to the podcast. He is an amazing consultant and podcasting host. And he will tell you that his reason that he is here in this world is to knock out sex trafficking. And he is trying to level up and help nonprofit in fundraisers, figure out how can we connect, raise more money together because he got this passion for just kind of eliminating the trafficking that we're seeing here in the United States? He knows our good friend Drew Kali. Hey, drew a little shout out who's in the we're for good community. And yeah, I'm just so interested to hear your story. Because you started as a door to door salesman, I did not even know that actually exists in the world, man. It's so yeah, we're just really curious to hear about this incredible story from door to door salesman to becoming one of these top salespeople and connector. So hi, Jake, welcome to the podcast.

Hello. Yes. Great to see you guys. Great to be here. Huge fan of the show. New fan of the show. I just started a couple weeks ago, but I love it.

Well, that's awesome. I mean, we are just really curious to hear. And we'd love meeting do gooders. We love meeting people that are specifically very passionate about one very microfocus area of nonprofit or do good work. And we're just we would just love to know a little bit about your history. Tell us where you grew up. I know you're in Northern Virginia. But yeah, tell us a little bit about your story and how you fell into where you are today.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I'm here right now in Northern Virginia, I've grown up in this area for pretty much my whole life and moved here when I was like three or four or something. And when I was about 15 1516, I stumbled into the world of door to door sales. I had just met a buddy in a Starbucks, who was several years older than me, and he was doing and he said, Hey, I don't know if you have a car, or if you want an after school job. But I think he'd be great at this door to door sales gig that I'm doing. He was like a neighbor. So we knew each other that way, and I said, well, more than happy to come check it out. And so I remember showing up to this place. That was just this office out in Fairfax, Virginia. And it was the first off I don't condone this movie. I'm not like a huge fan of this movie. But the best way to put it is Wolf of Wall Street. Especially like the first office where it was like rinky dink just like ragtag office in the middle of nowhere with all these guys. Like, that's exactly what it felt like, Yeah, nobody was sure what I was really doing. But it was all home remodeling products. So we would sell windows, roofing, siding, gutters, doors, trim, like everything, door to door. And, yes, I just kind of stayed on that train, I had the time of my life and learned a lot, especially overcoming rejection, and being able to identify ways to build rapport with people in a matter of seconds. And also create a win win, you know, when they first tell, you know, to your face. And then maybe 30 minutes later, they're signing the dotted line, like just being able to understand how somebody works, and let no not be the end of the road. So that kind of just carried that through high school, college. And then after college, I kept knocking on doors, until I got this fantastic opportunity to help build a sales team in the food and beverage industry. So we were an outsourced sales team for emerging food and beverage brands. Some of the brands that you guys might have heard of would be like, our x bar, you know, with the ingredients on the front, or health aide kombucha, and a few others. So I helped build this team along with a handful of other amazing people. And we built that up to about 60 people. And I did that for the last seven years. And then in 2020 when everything went a little crazy. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine who worked on the fundraising team of an anti human trafficking nonprofit. And I said how are you guys doing right now admits the pandemic and he said we don't know how to operate. So we we've ceased all fundraising initiatives right now. We're not asking anybody for money. He's like Yeah, we're seeing what other organizations are doing. And everybody's putting this on pause just because we don't want to, like, it's a tough time to ask people for money. And I was like, it's a tough time to ask some people for money, like, there's no need to hit the brakes, just change the strategy. So that's when I thought, Alright, I think this is time to make a pivot, and just take all this sales experience that I've accumulated over the past decade and a half and jump into the world of fundraising, specifically for anti trafficking groups.

I mean, from listening to the podcast, you know, we always geek out with stories similar to yours, that you just have this knack for something, you have this passion within you, you have this skill set that's not brought to the nonprofit sector. I love that you just saw that you had something to offer that we weren't leaning into. And I also think me knocking on that many doors, your BIOS at 100,000 doors, like, I'm trying to wrap my head around knocking on 100,000 doors and still believing in the good of humanity. Because just trying to sell chocolate bars, you know, in in high school or you know, whatever. It's rough. And I mean, you got to see the low low of people in that process at the same time. Yeah, you make some great connections along the way. What, give us a little bit of flavor for doing $100,000. Please, before we move on?

Yeah, and just to be ultra clear, is almost 100,000. I added it up. And it was I think it was in like the high 80s. And I can say almost 100 Sorry, I left out the word on my podcast. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think that that just helped to give me some perspective, and helped me to develop some empathy, because every single door is an entirely different human being. So you have to learn how to, and most people are only going to give you a few seconds, you know, there's that stat that first impressions are made in the first four seconds. And let's say that that's true. So you have four seconds right off the bat, but then you probably only have about 10 or 15. Before, they're really wondering what the heck are you doing on my doorstep, and they're probably eager to slam the door in your face. So you really have about 10 seconds with each individual. And so depending on who that person is, I've got to learn how to like, try to identify something about them, that I can connect with instantly. And by myself just a little bit more time, and more time and more time. So I mean, I think that was huge. And then also just helping me to realize that each new person person is a completely new opportunity. Because I think one thing that all of us do is we will project how we feel or how other people feel on to the next person. If the last few people told us No way, I'm not donating to this. I'm not fundraising I'm not buying, we start to think, man, nobody wants this. Yeah, nobody's willing to donate. And then we go ahead and pull the plug. So it helped me to get over that.

Now, that's powerful mindset. Because we we don't realize what we're projecting on other people too. And I love your analogy that each new door is a whole new opportunity. It's not like the neighbors are calling each other. I guess that happens sometimes, you know, it's there. Yeah.

I mean, I would really like to know, this transition of what awakened you in the anti trafficking space, what really spoke to you, and and made you say to yourself, Okay, this is why I'm here. And this is what I'm going to dedicate my life toward eradicating.

Yeah, I mean, so that stems from an entirely different thing, my initial story, I was just trying to keep it short, because I can very easily go on a huge tangent and just talk and talk and talk. So but where that stemmed from was, this time spent living Eastern Europe 10 years ago, I, I first went on this trip to Moldova. And it was like a 10 day trip with a summer camp, or the summer sports camp for kids over there, through this organization. And while there, I made friends with the guy that ran it, and he said, Hey, if you ever want to come back and teach English, like we'd love to have you, and I was looking for any excuse to take some time off of school, college or just not go. And I said, yeah, 100% I'll be back in six months. And so I was I came back six months later, and was there to teach English for six months in Moldova. And shortly into that trip, I started to hear about and discover the realities of sex trafficking, which is extremely prevalent there, just because it's a former Soviet state. I mean, it's only been a country for 20 Something no 30 years now, at this point. So there's plenty of corruption going on. There's loose border control, so it's super easy for people to go in and out. And Moldova is number one, export, unfortunately, is women and children, like above anything else? The country's like the size of New Jersey, but it has the highest amount of sex trafficked individuals per capita in the world. And some learning about all this. I didn't know any of this stuff existed. And I remember sleeping in the basement of this church one night while I was there, and there was this mom that would come and clean the church every single night. And she would bring her like two year old daughter, and I remember the first night this daughter was there and I was trying Like I kicked a soccer ball her way just to try to like, play and hang out with this daughter for an hour while her monkey in the turret like is totally empty in this church. I was like, alright, well, maybe I'll just try to keep this girl entertained, you know, like kick the ball her way. And she didn't kick it back and she just looks so like, solemn. And I was like, man, something's going on with this girl. And the next day, the pastor told me that the mom and the daughter had just been rescued from a sex trafficking ring. And this girl's to, and like, I just like, I couldn't even comprehend it, you know. And so like, I stayed in the basement of that church for a week. And each night, they would come. And I remember like, the second night, I said, I just noticed the soccer ball in her direction again, thinking, like, I don't know, can we get this girl to smile. And it was like, the fifth night I was there. She liked the soccer ball roll to her way. She did smile, she nudged it back. And then we like, played soccer in this church that night. And it was just this wild moment to me where I was like, This is what I'm gonna do with my life. But I didn't know how you know. So 10 years went by, while I was trying to figure out how I was going to blend these things together. And then, as soon as I had that conversation with my buddy at the fundraising, who was on the fundraising team, I was like, this is how this is how I'm going to do it, I have to go now. So that's what I did.

Okay, I need to thread something here. Because I don't know how many of us would keep kicking the soccer ball back, day after day, rejected after rejection, that you had enough doors, shutting your face that you kept going. And there's something about the resilient spirit of what you have inside you, Jake, that makes you keep kicking the soccer ball back. And I think that is the beautiful metaphor of nonprofit. Like we, even when we're so tired, or even when were burnout, or we're having this compassion fatigue, or we're feeling paralyzed, to your point to your friends, nonprofit, like where they're just going to go dark. It's like we all sit in that paralysis, but we're all going to kick the ball back. Because we love this mission. We love this work. And because we understand when someone kicks it back, it makes it all worth it. What an incredible metaphor, Jake, for what you've been through and what you're running toward now.

Yeah, thanks. And I like I hadn't even thought about it that way, actually, just in terms of continuing to kick it back. But there was something way deeper happening that night for sure. Like I'm a believer, to the core. And I don't know how many how many of your listeners are. But without a doubt, I feel like God was doing something that night planting a seed. And then things would come back 10 years later.

So okay, Jake, you, you know, have stepped into this new consulting role. So you're coaching your different clients of how to fundraise how to get, you know, think about things differently. But then you get this crazy idea and you that you're going to run 50 miles, which you called your freedom run, right? Yeah. But you in this, I would say vulnerable position that you're going to be the fundraiser, that you're going to be out there knocking on doors to find support for this tell us this crazy story. I mean, your legs are still like laid up with Oh, my gosh, days ago, it was like

just happened a couple of days ago. And I've yeah, I've run a couple marathons and I don't even want to move in that in you've run twice. But essentially twice, two marathons back to back and a half hours. So yeah, talk to us about this incredible mission that you started.

Yeah. Well, I got the idea to do something like this. First, last year, during the pandemic, I was just on a run, it was like March. So things were really ramping up. And I remember thinking, man, people are all bent out of shape about this quarantine thing. But I was like, man, maybe now more than ever, I wonder if people here in the US would have a new sense of empathy for victims of trafficking. So I thought I would start a fundraising run. Last year, we get like a few grand in and people jumping on board to come run in this global anti trafficking group saw it gaining some traction on LinkedIn. And they're like, Hey, can we borrow this idea from you? And like adopt it and kind of take it as our own? You wouldn't be involved. We'll tell you straight up. But we'll leverage everything that we have our resources to really blow this thing out of the water. And I said, Yeah, whatever we have to do. And so they got like celebrities and pro athletes to run in three months raised over $300,000. So that was just like this crazy story. So this year, I was like, Well, I've got to do another one. I did a marathon last year. I was like, I'll do 50 miles this year. But it was more terrifying this year because I've branded myself as a fundraising consultant all year because I was like, if I don't hit this, and I'm like, claiming to be a fundraising console, nobody's gonna want to hire me. So like that was the biggest thing. I didn't even care about the run. I was like, just trying to make the money happen. But it all came together which is great.

Taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor who happens to be one of our favorite companies to neon one, neon one provides software solutions to growing nonprofits. But they really do so much more than that. They're also incredibly passionate about creating community in the social goods sector. We believe in the power of community. We've seen the greatest philanthropic movements happen when people work together to achieve common goals. Neon one can help you do just that. They created hearing giving connections a community that brings fundraisers together and empowers them to learn from each other's experiences. With weekly checklist and an active Slack community. There's no better way to prepare for your urine success. Want to be a more connected fundraiser, join their community today at NEON one.com backslash we are for good, or follow the link in our show notes.

Hey, friends, after meeting some of the most visionary leaders and world changers in the nonprofit sector today, we realized they all have one thing in common. They invest in themselves and their teams so they can stay relevant to what's working now to succeed and scale their missions. You know us we believe education for all and that's when we created we're for good pro Pro is reimagining nonprofit professional development, giving you access to incredible live coaching events with some of the best thought leaders like Shanna Palmer and Lynn Wester and more. Imagine being able to work through your challenges in real time. That's the power of pro. Every week, we host a new workshop giving you the playbook and tools to take immediate action, build your confidence and grow your impact. Be the Pro and get started today with a 14 day free trial head over to we're for good pro.com/free Okay, let's get back to this amazing conversation.

I'm really terrified for you, Jake, that next year, you're gonna try to run 100 miles. Story. But I have to give you a compliment, because I just think it was a beautiful thing way to go. Your feet are probably sore as all get out. I hope you got some shoes for that run. But my hat's off to you for just creating so much good around it. And I think this is what we talk about all the time, John, I mean community is everything. You did a great job of leveraging this event on LinkedIn, to galvanize more support, which is wonderful. So but I really want to know about how you leverage the Swarbrick, this sort of corporate sales method to raise money, you've just started your consultancy, talk to us about leveraging all the details from neuroscience and psychology and data, everything that you've learned about engagement, all the fundraisers are leaning. And right now,

it really just comes down to what the what the needs are of that particular nonprofits. I've worked with a handful so far. This year, all of them in completely different capacities. One of them, I'm coaching their team members, another one, I am coaching the executive director to do the fundraising. And this has been like a year of experiments. For me, I'm I'm really just trying to be as much of a sponge as possible. Because yes, I've spent a lot of time in the sales world, but I've just been trying to learn as much as possible. So at the end of the day, my goal is to leverage corporate sales methods to help nonprofit fundraising teams win bigger donations. And so that looks different in different capacities. Like for one example, the group that I'm working with where I'm, I'm more coaching the executive director, they've been around for 10 years, they're doing amazing work, they have an existing group of donors already. And they reach out to those donors for various campaigns sometimes to try to drive new donations to come through. But they've never really seen much of a spike, or lift in their annual income, it's been the same. And so after I've, like learned about what they're doing, I worked with her to create a new campaign that would try to make sense to some of maybe a higher net worth individuals or like business minded people that are part of their donor base and create a campaign just for them. So there was a little bit of exclusivity around it, which is also what something like people get excited about right being a part of an exclusive social group. So through doing that, we were able to raise enough to almost double their annual revenue. And we're not at the end of the year yet, which is pretty cool. But one thing that I've noticed is so far in this year, is that I'm helping nonprofits to view the fundraising process, like a two way street. There's so much content online and you hear people talking about the ask how to navigate ask how to confidently make the ask, you know, whatever it is about the ask, because I will for one, I think it's so nerve wracking and overwhelming for fundraisers because they see it as a one way transaction. And that I mean, that's going to be nerve racking for anybody regardless of how much sales you experience you have if you're just asking for something and you feel like they're not getting anything in return. I mean, that puts them in this position of status over you. And it makes you feel probably small compared to them and you're like holding out your hands asking for something That's why everybody feels nervous about it and lacks confidence because you're already setting yourself up in this lower status position. So instead, I'm trying to help fundraisers see it as a two way street. And for them to realize how much the donor is getting out of it. And some fundraisers will say things like, yeah, no, I get it, I get it. Like, there's this partnership. And they probably, you know, they're helping, they're making an impact. But I don't know if they fully grasp how similar it is to the corporate world. Like for a short period of time, one of my door to door Jobs was it was like, half a year was like this internship was security systems. These are $5,000 security systems that we're selling just pieces of plastic, in metal. And that's it for 5000 bucks, or 50 bucks a month for five years, or whatever it is, like, what are people really paying for? Not paying for the plastic, or the metal, they're just paying for a feeling peace of mind. And like, there is a huge market for feelings. And that's what we're doing in the fundraising world is you're a salesperson of feelings. That's at least my perspective. So I'm just trying to help fundraisers grasp that that like, the donors are probably benefiting more than you are, because that money will be spent in an instant on whatever programs or operations, they're going to feel good for maybe months or years, because of the impact that they made. And I think once you can have that new perspective, it's going to change everything.

Yeah, I mean, I see an undercurrent in a lot of the conversations we've had on the podcast in the last couple hours had couple of years, we have been doing this couple years. But that, you know, we need to know that we're coming to the table with something to offer. And that something that we offer may not be tangible, it may be this fulfillment, this alignment with your purpose, or with the values you want to uphold for your family or perpetuate in the world. And I think that we sell that short, you know, after spending our careers and nonprofit, I know we sell that short, because it is something you can't buy anywhere, and it is a unique offering. And then you got so much more to they can be bundled with that because it really does do tangible impact. So there's really two sides of that. I mean, okay, Jake, what do you feel like, you know, your your coaching, your counseling, you know, frontline fundraisers, what do you see as barriers to people really raising the most money? In your, in your perspective,

what I've seen so far, and this, I'm sure will change, the further I dive into it is a lack of questions. So one thing that I that I put together a few months ago was something called the retort analysis. And that's just based off of the Greek word for rhetoric, rhetoric. And it's where it's kind of a product that I'm starting to offer to some people, but this has been, it's opened my eyes to what fundraisers need the most help with, but what it is, is a fundraiser records their call with a potential donor via zoom, sends me the audio file, I'll analyze it using another software and then create this dashboard that shows them like nine different key metrics, talk to listen ratio, rapport building ratio, rhetorical appeals, used, logos, pathos, ethos, logic, emotion, credibility of the speaker, how many questions were they asking? Did they make an attempt to secure commitment? Yes or no, and a few others. And like the bulk of these reports that I see people are not asking any questions at all. So I think the major pitfall there is they're going into this conversation talking about, or they might have like the story of the nonprofit prepared, and they know what like the back of their hand, and they just sort of regurgitate that story. And if they don't know anything in particular about the stakeholder, they're just going to share everything, which is like, you know, word vomit, right? If they were to ask more questions from the get go, they could uncover like the hot buttons of that one individual. And then maybe only share the layers of the story that align with that person in particular, but also asking more questions is going to put the listener into a different role. Because like, their focus will be on answering the questions instead of thinking about how to get out of the conversation for one. But also, you're going to be able to identify what that person's goals and needs are for themselves, and then tell a fresh new story for that person on how partnering together will help them achieve their goals, rather than them helping you reach your goals as a fundraiser. That makes sense.

I mean, you may not have been analyzing this long, but you have uncovered a lot of clarity.

Oh my gosh, I mean, I'm not gonna lie that I feel so stressed out at the thought of your program like decrypting. My conversations, you use the word that I think is completely missing, which is alignment, and there is no way that you can make alignment with a donor to their passion to their dreams, unless you're listening. So I do think this concept of questions is a really astute one. And I just think these elevator pitches that we have been primed to give in fundraising, need to go bye bye. Because if it's scripted, then there is nothing natural or human or authentic about What you're about to go in and experience because if you have such a rote process down, then there's no way to pivot or respond to what a donor is telling you or what a prospect is saying. So I actually think that has great resonance. And I think that that could be the greatest Hallmark to get a major gift officer and annual giving officer, whoever the frontline fundraiser is, it is a way to get you connected to a donor so quickly, and authentically, if you can just throw out that script and show up as yourself, give some value, as some dang questions about what's important to them. Ask about their family. We believe in the process of philanthropy, we've seen it change the giver, as well as the receiver. And we should be drilling into that. So I really like this conversation, I think you're giving like breathing kind of a little bit of fresh air into the sector by coming in with this unique lens. And I loved your story so much about this little girl in Moldova, I wonder how she's doing today. But I also we asked all of our guests about a moment of philanthropy that just stayed with them. Do you have a story of philanthropy that you've seen as you've been working in this sector for this short bit of time?

Yeah, I felt a little bit about that. And the the one moment of philanthropy, for me has nothing to do with what I've been doing. Actually, it's it's a separate story that I heard, and I'll share it super quickly. But it was by I listened to this podcast from a church actually in your guys's neck of the woods live church. And they had a guest speaker from Sweden, this guy name yo Hakim, Long Fist, I think his name, he's gonna take this youth group on they're like annual retreat or something, and they're trying to find a good place to do it. And somebody from the team, like one of the the girls in the youth group that's like a teenager, she's like, let's, let's try to see if we get a cruise line to give us the whole boat for the retreat. And he's like, that's insane. Like that. That'd be millions and millions of dollars to rent it. And we only have like, there were only a couple 1000 people, a couple 1000 kids in this group. And there wouldn't be enough to fill the boat, that's for sure. And the teenagers, like we'll just try once you just try. And so the pastor was like, Alright, fine, let's try. So they submit a request to Norwegian Cruise Lines, a public company, that's a multi billion dollar company to rent one of their cruise ships at an 80% discount, because that's all they can afford. 80% discount, like absolutely outrageous. And so they they submit this and they hop on the phone with a saleswoman. And she laughs on the phone saying, that's crazy. But hey, I'll go ahead and pass it up, because you never know. So this makes its way to the CEOs desk, he reads through the whole thing. And he says, Yeah, go ahead and give him one of the cruise ships for 80% off, which was unheard of. And the reason why was because he had been for years, internally hadn't told us anybody, but in turn him out later, hadn't told us anybody that he had been struggling with the fact that he had made most of his millions getting people drunk at sea, because majority of the profit margins on a cruise line come from the alcohol is being served. So he had this like internal guilt and he wasn't he's not like a churchgoer at all, not a believer, just you know, so he was just feeling this guilt still. So for him, providing this boat 80% Off with his way of trying to, like, make things right, in a sense. And so to me, it was like this beautiful story, one of like approaching a public multi billion dollar company with this crazy idea. That makes no sense. Yeah, but also it was this great illustration of the fact that people donate for their reasons, not yours, and to always still go for it.

I love crazy Dreamers.

And I always wanted to be of that story. And I think because they came with a clear vision of what they wanted, it was easy for him to say yes to that, too. You know, he didn't have that, like they had this real, wonderful, clear plan, and we're won't afraid to ask about it. Okay, Jake, I can tell you are a guy that leans into mantras. You have great habits in place in your life to be able to run 50 miles. Our last question is always what's your one good thing? What is something that's worked for you in your life that you would offer to our community today?

Well, it's another mantra. So hope you guys are cool. Yeah. All right. Good, good. So this one I think it was originally originally came from the military, but it was made popular by James clear, wrote this book called atomic habits. Yeah, awesome. But the mantra quote is, you don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the levels of your systems.

It's so good. And so we get

systems like that was really great though. And I just think you have such a unique story is such a winding path to your story from wanting to get out of school, to going to school to traveling and feeling such a call to purpose. I love that you You just have so much good spa and you just got out there and ran freakin 50 miles for your cause. I just really am rooting for you, Jake. So tell people how they can connect with you. You've got a great, some great courses on your website. Yeah, tell people how they can reach you digitally.

Yeah, I appreciate that. The first would be I'm pretty active on Instagram. And so you can find me there it's at it's Jake savage. And always feel free to reach out. And I'm usually posting a lot about this endurance stuff. And occasionally like persuasive communication that I have a podcast persuasion school that I've had for the past couple years, where we're just using corporate sales methods to that's not particularly for fundraising. We're just helping people to become more effective communicators in all areas of life. So people that want to learn how to ask for a raise or promotion, they can listen to that show. And then my website, Jake savage dot CEO, if you're interested in working together, so that's where I have more information strictly just about fundraising and the different things that I provide. They're

awesome. I mean, from door to door salesman to changing the world, Jake, this conversation has been life giving today. Thank you so much for being here and for showing up the way that you are in the world.

I can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve next year.

Yeah, we'll see. But hey, guys, this was awesome. And it was great just to meet you both, especially after hearing your voices for so long. So I appreciate the opportunity to thank you

for you Jake.

Hey, friends, thanks so much for being here. Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode was helpful links, freebies, and even shareable graphics. Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices, but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free. And you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at we are for good.com backslash Hello. One more thing If you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community. Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie confer and our theme song is sunray by Remy Boris boom