And okay, this is our visioning empathy circle to talk about what the sort of of our vision for the the retreat center at the 1964 kenosis. Road in Santa Barbara, we've been doing a series of these are inviting. We've invited the Santa Barbara Community to a series of these cafes, envisioning circles. And then now I'm opening it up to the empathy community to kind of bring the empathy community into these discussions just to come up with a vision for the space, generate ideas. And we want to use the empathy circle practice for that. And I thought we'd just start off, we took about five minutes for people to write down their ideas. So we just like generating some ideas. On our work page here are documents page. And we had two people and others who are going to join us villetta didn't feel well, so couldn't join us, we have one other that might jump in to me just coming late, Bill. So maybe we can just get started with our introductions and why you're interested in this project. Just model it, Edwin Rutsch, from the Center for building a culture of empathy been working 15 years on the on how to build a more empathic society. And live here in San Francisco Bay Area, my brother just bought the property and asked me to manage it and develop it. So I'm very interested in the property for that, that reason, and kind of getting the ball rolling on it. Zach, you want to introduce yourself?
Yeah, sure. My name is Zach ware. And I'm the founder of a protocol publication where we are intending to take a lot of what we're learning about reflective listening and making reflective listening, like a more intuitive and user friendly process where you kind of engage in that behavior on video conference, and you know, feel good while you're collaborating or learning with friends, family or coworkers. And sorry, Edwin, was there a second part of the prompt?
Or you're interested in this visioning and visioning this specific? Project?
Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm interested in this project, because I think this is like a really great step in terms of, you know, scaling, you know, reflective listening and making this something that's like, normalized in people's lives. You know, there's already a lot of professions like, you know, especially like caring professionals use reflective listening. And this, this retreat center could be, you know, you know, potentially very effective in making reflective listening something that's just like, normal, you know, happens in everyday life, maybe you don't do it every day. But it's just like, something that's just kind of part of, you know, what people do on a regular occasional basis.
Okay. Thanks, Lou. Check in.
Yeah, so I'm loose wire. I've been involved with Edwin in the center, we're building a culture of empathy for, I don't know, 3456 years, something longtime, longtime helped to develop the empathy circle training and been training cohorts of people for more than two years. Um, yeah, and this, I think, this opportunity to have a physical location that is a center for building a culture of empathy, and other kinds of personal growth and healing practices that are aligned with building a culture of empathy, I think is a tremendous opportunity. And amazing thing actually, is an amazing opportunity. So the, the, to the idea of, you know, taking some time to think about what might that look like, what my life could be, like thinking about that with other people. I'm happy to be doing that.
well, I'm Larry, retired occupational therapist, living in Florida. And I came across the empathy circles on YouTube and fell in love with them. And I think it's phenomenal to see that the work of Carl Rogers continues, and it's relatively easy to, to learn to reproduce to practice. And as Zack was saying, to have this way of empathic communication become normalized in society, instead of what's already normalized, which is the competitive egoic amygdala hijack method. So I'm happy to promote or or or share the idea of empathy and empathy circles, anywhere, anytime, all the time. That's why I'm
here. Thanks. Sorry, Bell. We're just doing intros your name, location and why Are you interested in visioning for the
show? First of all, let me apologize for being late, I was distracted. My name is Bill filler. I'm a retired special education teacher. And I had worked with very challenging students and families. During my career, unfortunately, for me, I only discovered empathy circles after I retired. But knowing what I know about trying to heal students and families, give them what we call the corrective emotional experience. I feel like Larry, and while you hear that the empathy circle is an excellent, excellent way to go. And I'd be happy to have training people and get that into the schools. Because I think it's really needed. Thanks.
Right. So we're gonna use the empathy circle practice for this, anyone that's not familiar with, it can just observe it. Then also in the description, there'll be links to how the process works. It's fairly simple. Everyone here is an expert in the process, we're going to be doing five minute turns. And Larry is going to be doing the timekeeping. And so we can just get started. And whoever wants to be the first speaker, select your listener. And our question is, what is your vision for the building an empathy based Retreat Center at 1964 Konoha. Throat in Santa Barbara, and we got about an hour and a half to go. So we'll jump in or like the start.
All right, I'll go sir. I'll go first. Why not? All right, Larry, would you be done listening?
Yes, I'll be your listener, I think he said five minutes turns.
whiteness. Alright. So I see a timer there. Alright, so let's see here. So I think I'll just like start on, so I like sat down for like, an hour this morning, read this out. So I'll start on the first one. So like, professional integration and workshops. So I definitely noticed in notes, from previous conversations people were talking about, like business groups, or, you know, groups of corporate professionals coming to the retreat center. So just kind of like building on that a little bit more. You know, I think what could potentially be really fun is, you know, having, you know, say, like a group of, you know, professionals from whatever industry they might be coming from, and they come to the retreat center, and say they do a weekend retreat program. That, you know, one format that they could potentially benefit from could be, like, professional integration workshops, where they, you know, actively brainstorm, and I'm sure they'll brainstorm as they're learning, you know, through the whole retreat, right? You know, it's not just all going to happen in this one place. But at least you can have like, a dedicated time where like, Okay, we're going to intentionally talk about like, okay, like, say, we are, you know, from the automotive industry, or something like that. And our job is, you know, we design cars or manufacture cars. Here, I'll pause there.
Thank you, Zack. So, I'm hearing, you're kind of having a vision of the center being a location, a place where you could have professional workshops, with the intention of using empathy circles or something like that, so that people could come together and have various kinds of workshops, but brainstorming in these workshops and developing that, something like that.
Yeah, absolutely. And so like, say, for example, we have like a group of, you know, six people who are co workers, or maybe they're on the coerce, but they're all from the same like automotive company. And, you know, say like, a couple of them are designers, and a couple of them are like, procurement folks, and a couple of them might be like, in the manufacturing, you know, part of the company. And, and so in, like a professional integration setting, you know, they can be invited to just brainstorm about, you know, how could we use reflective listening, to make our workplace a better place to work to, you know, help, you know, augment or boost our decision making processes or our design processes, and really just kind of, like, invite them to get the specific use cases, essentially. And, and by doing that, at the retreat center, they can benefit from one or multiple experts who are present at that workshop, to just like, you know, help support that brainstorming and go like, yes, and you know, and just kind of add to their, you know, existing ideations and ideas.
Yeah. So, I'm hearing that you could have people from within a particular company come to these workshops, and they may not even, you know, be interacting with each other in their company. But coming to this group, they could be brainstorming together and hearing ideas that are collaborating to further the functioning and the success, possibly, of their own company, through this collaborative experience of reflective listening.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think like, you know, of course, like, try to think of as many different ideas as possible, but it's like, even, you know, the achievement of, you know, actually, like, finding one use case that, you know, one, you know, could be one particular workflow or setting in their company where, you know, they actually start doing it, you know, that, in and of itself is, you know, a pretty, you know, important event, right, because, you know, kind of, in my mind, you know, my bias is just, you know, exposure is the really important step, you know, in terms of kind of developing, you know, this movement, you know, the more it just kind of becomes normalized and like a It's not surprising that we're doing reflective listening right now. So I think I say that to say, like, we don't necessarily, you know, gold doesn't have to be like, Oh, we're gonna help. GM just reinvented its its entire company. Like, that's not necessary, but it's like, but even if just like one process, you know, gets adoption here. That's really, really good. That's super positive.
So Zach, I'm hearing that there could be a very wide spectrum or diversity of personnel coming together and sharing ideas. And if one actual use of that collaboration comes about its success.
Yeah, totally. Thank you, Larry.
Thank you, Zack. Lou, will you be my listener? Yes. Thank you. Yeah. And I find that really inspiring what Zach is sharing that from diversity, allowing diversity to be can spring forth. Something that was not seen before?
Yeah, so you're really inspired listening to Zach. Talk about his vision? And what and what you felt was or what really resonated with you or excited you is the idea that diversity listening and out of diversity would spring you know, something new?
Yeah, that the, the, the allowing, you know, the allowing the diversity of workers within one company, to each be heard. And from that allowing each to be heard. springs forth, unforeseen possibility?
Yeah, so it's really free you that inviting or allowing diversity from within company, all different voices from all different levels of the company, and allowing that and that out of that, something unpredictable would spring something new, something different. And that that's, that's inciting identity.
Exactly. Exactly. It's, it's really that Carl Rogers, you know, unconditional positive regard, allowing people to be themselves and from that space of allowing something unpredictable, shows up.
Yeah, so you just really trust what what Carl Rogers said, which is that if you if you provide an unconditional positive regard, and you allow people to be who they are, and show up as who they are, that something wonderful will come out of it, something new and different will come out of it.
Yes. And I would even use the word. It's inevitable.
Yeah, you think it's inevitable that something will come out of it? Because that that's just the nature of human beings and the richness of diversity?
Thank you, Lou. I feel fully heard. Thank you.
Great. Bill, will you be my listener? Sure, happy to Yeah, so first, I move to say that just it's really good to see you. I haven't seen you in a long time and I miss you. And so I'm very happy to be here in the circle with you and just connect a little
bit. So you're happy to connect with me?
Yeah, and so in the writing that I did about the three, you know, write down three ideas of your vision, the first one I wrote was about creating a community, creating a residential community of people who are embodying a culture of empathy, what kind of cultural influence that means. And so one of the things that's exciting, I think about this, the property is that it has residential, living spaces. And so you could have, there might be as many as 40 people, or more who are there. Spending time there anywhere from a weekend to maybe a year. And that, in particular, the people who are there for longer periods of time, we'd actually be forming a community that's embodying a culture of empathy and creating a culture of empathy. And I think that that's really significant.
So one of the three ideas that you had about the visioning is to create a community, a resident community there, and that could be made up of people, the besides supports that, and that can be made up of people there for be there as long as a year to a weekend depending. And then they would be embodying it would be a sort of a laboratory for empathic culture.
Yeah, thanks, Bill. So yeah, so getting clear about what that is actually, what is an empathic culture? How would that what would the practices and the traditions and the of that of the people who are staying there, what would develop out of that? And how would that embody a culture of empathy? And then how would the people who come there for shorter periods of time, like a day long workshop, where we show how would they be influenced by the the stronger field, you know, a cultural field that's created by the people? Who Are there a lot for a long time?
Yeah. So what I hear is that there's some sort of intermingling between longer term members and shorter term members. So one of the questions you have, as far as people who would be there for a longer time, what would be the culture that evolves to where you know, what would be the rituals and the norms or things like that? And then also, how would people who are actually living the dream, so to speak, affect the people who would come there for sure time? Would that be more significant? Because they'd be interacting with people who, kind of steeped in the practice?
Yeah. Yeah. And I do think I do think that the the residential community that creates a culture of empathy, I think that that is a very powerful thing. I think that's a powerful tool. And I think they will have influence on the people that come there for shorter periods of time. And I think that is one of the tremendous opportunities. Yeah, I guess I'll stop.
Yeah, well, you're you're pretty sure that the fact that you would have people who were there for a longer period of time and practicing, you know, every day would have a very significant effect on people who would be there for a short time? Less. So let's say then, if they just met one time and assume,
yeah, I mean, in the same way that an empathy circle creates a culture, you know, it's a group. And that culture is influenced by the people who have already done empathy circles a lot and skills are in the process, and that others new new people's Israel are affected by that they learn from it. In the same way, I think that would happen at the center, where people who are visiting the center would be would enter that culture, and they would be influenced by it.
Yeah. So you actually see a parallel between our interactions in the Zoom Room with people who have done empathy circles for a long time having an influence on people who are newer to the practice, and you kind of see that sort of cross pollination and think that that would even I'm inferring here would be even stronger in a live setting with people who've been there longer and living.
Yes. Yeah. Thank you for filling hearing me so fully. Sure. All right, everyone, listening. So I've been
really having fun with this. And just thinking and so what I'm trying to do is to, you know, kind of gauge So let's say the necessities, the physical necessities and things, the food structure, renovation, whatever all that is, with, what sort of activities, then could you do to ramp it up. So I'm kind of seeing both those processes and trying to design something that would fit the right stage at the right time,
I'll stand. So you're having a lot of fun with thinking about this. And you're looking at maybe the practicality of the physicality of what needs to be done. And then like programs that could fit with that it's sort of the right stage.
Right, right. So I really love what I've been hearing from Zach, and Lou, Larry. And, you know, I think that all can be possible. I think, at the very beginning, you're just gonna want something sort of like when we designed the training, that would be a low bar to entry, to make people more likely to take that first step. You know, and I saw that as sort of like a weekend workshop,
you're you're thinking of, to begin with just like into training, it's a low bar, easy entry to it. And so you're saying that is creating that simple first step workshop?
Yeah, as a first step, I mean, nothing, people could be living there longer. And I the center is quite big. So you could actually have several groups there. I mean, you could have like a small empathy circle group, and then a wedding or something like that. And so anyway, and I'm trying to just wrap my head around, and I'll stop there,
you're just trying to wrap your head around that you see that it's a really large space. And there could be multiple sort of activities going on at the same time, or multiple workshops or weddings, just events,
right. And I've been thinking about this sort of like an in person retreat type of thing, even before your brother bought this place. I know we've discussed it. And so when I saw a really is, initially, is a two day workshop, during the four very basic facilitation classes, so people come on like a Friday night, there are two empathy circles, two of those on Saturday, and then giving people a lot of space in between. And I'll explain that, I'll kind of circle back to that. And then on Sunday to empathy circles. So those are two hours apiece, let's say two and a half hours. But that's about five hours, you figure out an eight hour workday. So it gives people plenty of time to eat, and to relax. And then and to circle back. I've done a lot of these workshops before, I had to do a four day workshop for Crisis Prevention Institute. And so I am going on for a bit here. Do you want me to stop?
Yeah, if you want, you're excited about this idea. Because you've already been thinking about doing this in person to workshop even way before my brother bought the property. And this became an option. So you've already started kind of going through the different process? How do you design the course. And you have a sort of you have some prototype ideas, you know, for how how to do that.
Yeah, and so what a lot of when I've done things, they stuck you in a basement with no windows for like four days, you know, or even when they had a nice room with like big, you know, picture windows, they close the curtains. And the point was to sort of like, you know, already when extractions, distractions, and this is about listening. And what I find is that when I go into nature, it's a different type of listening, you're not in control. And so you have you look at the wind, the weather, and all sorts of other things. So I would like to see sort of the empathy circle integrated with experience of nature and give people both of those things. I think both those experiences reinforce each other
workshops where they close you in your you're in a dark kinda room keeping everything focused and you see that having workshop out in nature connecting empathy and nature is something that would kind of be kind of more expansive,
as they say the synergy and
synergy, synergy between nature and empathy and thanks. Okay, Zach, speak to you. Totally. I hear You and Larry talking about the empathy circle and active listening. So, which I think is like a core concept core practice. But it's sort of a, I just wanted to bring up that it's a bigger vision of a culture of empathy. That and there's a, there's a lot of work to be done, you know, for good writers, good storytellers to create the philosophy that, you know, the documentation to sort of create the stories and the philosophy that kind of promote a vision of that larger culture.
Yeah, so I mean, so So you're sharing a reminder that, that our focus here is not simply the empathy circle. It's not simply active listening, or reflective listening, but that the larger project is culture of empathy, and basically facilitating the leadership, I think you mentioned, like writers, like people who are going to articulate that culture and how people are going to use these things.
Yeah, there's a philosophy and also a storytelling aspect. And we're down in LA, we're just kind of the storytelling capital of the world, really, with movies and stuff.
Yeah, so geographically, the center is positioning us very closely with many storytellers, and effective storytellers. And so that's an important element to opening the center where it is.
And so within that larger picture is active listening, the empathy circle, which I find is sort of like the core practice, sort of like the compassion mindfulness community has meditation as like its core practice. And I see this or that for the empathy community. Empathy circle, active listening is like the core practice. But there's, it's just one of a whole spectrum. Yeah.
Yeah. So you're playing on how like, with, with a number of different like compassion oriented communities, meditation is their core practice that they kind of branch and build from? And for us, it's, it's it's the empathy circle is that core practice, but there's much more to expand from that core practice. Yeah.
And then, because it's the one sort of functional practice, and we're sort of doing it right now, in a sense of holding workshops there. This is a workshop. We're holding it right now. So this is actually our first workshop for the center, in a sense of we're already holding work, empathy center workshops right now is we're taking part in it.
Yeah, so So workshops are definitely a part of the center's programming, and in purpose of facilitate these workshops, and we're even doing that right now, this is the retreat centers, first series of workshops.
And, yeah, so I guess I already create that bigger picture, you know, we have multiple practices, the empathy circle is one of the, you know, core powerful practices. But then there's other ones like human centered design, I see is a very empathic based practice, I think that sort of touches into the corporate brainstorming kind of work that you're talking about where people come together in human centered design, they have a problem that they're working on, they start with empathizing with each other, and what the needs are, but they haven't big defining of the problem phase, and then a specific creativity phase where you kind of bring in creativity, and then you create specific projects. And then you test the projects. And it's a whole iterative, empathy based creativity based process that I think is really powerful as well.
Yeah, so you're bringing, as an example, human centered design, as an example of one of those wider culture of empathy practices, and how that ties into like that corporate use case or business use case, essentially. So where you can start from empathy circle, you can start with that base of reflective or active listening, you then expand into human centered design as one of the branches or kind of exit levels to promote into. Yeah, and
I think you kind of grasp that because of your programming background. Because user design is sort of a big part of, you know, programming, what would you do, and that's kind of based, you know, very empathy based, like, if you're designing something, you have to be able to understand where people are coming from, to design an effective program.
Totally. And so you're, you're relating this example with me, because as a programmer, I am concerned about design. And, and so, human centered design is just kind of an example of supporting that kind of work where you're kind of intentionally building things in such a way that it's supporting that culture of of the release, participating in that culture of empathy.
Yeah, so that's kind of I wanted to just kind of add that part. The other thing I'm really excited about what Lou is saying about it's a company Did he have practice to and there's so many Oregon is, a lot of these centers are built around the community of practice be at yoga or, you know, Buddhism or whatever, that and this can be like a community of empathic practice, and it has just a lot of potential. I think the first one may be the center, you know, for the, in the world that I know of based around this.
And so you're you're naming as like an important dimension is how this work is going to relate with religious communities as well.
I feel fully heard not in that community, but create a community of practice that analogous that like that those other type of communities.
Yeah, so yeah, it's basically Community of Practice. That's not necessarily connecting with those communities, though. I may interpret that may be happening, but it's, it's analogous to those communities.
Thanks. I went over
Yeah, sorry. I bet if I was throwing too much, I'm empathetic guessing.
I had your back.
Yeah. Oh, fair. Good. So, um, so I think I think it's, I'll skip the order of, of when I'll go into like, the corporate structure stuff, because that kind of taking too. Oh, excuse me. Let me How about this. I'm gonna mix it up. Bill, you know, listening, listening. Sure. Right. Yeah, thanks for reminder. So and there's a lot here, so I'll definitely try to break this up. So like, first of all, a name is just like, out of respect for you know, Edwin's brother, like, you know, they, they spent an incredible amount of their their wealth and resources to like acquire this property and to generate this opportunity. And I also respect that, I don't know like specifically, like, you know, Edwin's plans in terms of like, how he's going to, like structure a little structure early, or like legally structure, the entity. So I just like want to acknowledge that.
You, you first want to start off with appreciation and respect for Edwin and his brother for investing a lot of money and time in it, and also the legal sort of hoops that they're going to have to go through in order to, you know, get this off the ground.
Yeah, totally. And so and so I wrote these points, you know, primarily as like, like affirmation, like to them, and then the choices that they they want to make, that I you know, I support their choices. So I'm just throwing this out there as part of the brainstorm and whatnot. So then your obstacles there.
Okay. So you wanted to say that, you know, part of that, and you part of your process is kind of supporting the choices that Edwin and Charles are making, as serving sort of as a frame for what you might, you know, suggest or do.
Yeah, so, yeah, and so like, definitely curious a suggestion, but it's, like, more so it's like affirmation, like, support, you know, so they know, like, you know, Evan, like, you're not gonna be selfish. If you found like a for profit, LLC is like ministry to center, for example, like, I don't think I don't think that's selfish or greedy in the slightest. And if you want to make other choices, that's all okay, too.
Right. So despite whether, you know, considering everything that is the Edwin and Charles are put into it, you would support really any choice that they made?
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. So, um, alright, so basically, I've been hearing some points that are similar to this, in terms of how property can be structured to use, but kind of at its base. I put out there that, you know, essentially, you know, of course, the retreat center property ruins some of the ownership of the rich family. And, like, one possibility is they could just found a simple LLC, you know, from which they can continue and retain their ownership of the property. You know, and they can, you know, continue paying their property taxes and pay, you know, regular staff and, and, of course, you know, shield themselves from liabilities and pay for insurance. You know, basically, they could, you know, have that LLC to function as a basic property management company.
So, one of the things you see is both a financial and I think legal entity is an LLC, and that would, is very common, and would protect them from some liability, and they would just, you know, They'll pay and just basically own and operate the property will allow them to own and operate the property.
Absolutely, and, and that in terms of how to kind of structure like the business model. You know, one possibility is essentially like a co working space model where, you know, you can, you know, have, you know, 501 C threes for profit entities, you can have various tenants, you know, including, of course, like natural persons as well, if they are like, for example, like, you know, renting a room or living there for a year or whatnot. But that, you know, the LLC, as that property manager can go ahead and lease to those tenants, and that those tenants, like, for example, like a nonprofit foundation, that could be run by like volunteer board of directors, that they take primary responsibility for, you know, inviting and hosting guests, or, you know, actually taking, like, you know, retreat fees, program fees. And that then, like, creates appropriate boundaries, you know, separates out, you know, that property management side, and, and then you have that program management side.
So, what you're talking about with an LLC, would allow Edwin and Charles to essentially sublet to tenants, nonprofit, or even just an individual that would live there, but then the, they would not be responsible for programming and doing other things and promotion, and so that each tenant would then do their own promotion and could run, you know, things independently.
Yeah, absolutely. And so, and of course, like, you know, Edwin could still be, like, chairman of the board are still on the board of like, say, like, the four core 501 C three, right. And, and part of the benefit of this kind of model of like a co working space model, is that they can provide a lot of flexibility, it would lend the retreat center, it's a function more like an incubator. So if you have, like, you know, different generations of leaders who come through and they start working through the center, then, you know, they can they can kind of grow and, and grow and also shrink, you know, with with a space.
So, would you feel this, this, this sort of layered, LLC, overreaching, and then the sublet would allow some flexibility, flexibility, and allow people to evolve and change as they use the space and either develop things or then, you know, go into something else. And while maintaining proper boundaries, I think you said,
yeah, definitely, you know, I think like,
you know, the time Oh,
absolutely. I wasn't even watching. Thanks for the reminder. Okay. Thank you, Bill. You've only heard me up to this point.
There's more to come.
I can hear that. All right, Louis. Yeah. So I just want to say, you know, I missed you, too. It's great to see you here. And great to be in a group with you. And so, let's see. So in sort of crafting, what's, you know, ideas that I might design or something that is a facilitation, or, you know, we might design whatever I was thinking about what sort of model that they might have. And so there is sort of like the more kind of resort model where, you know, meals are prepared. There's a regular staff and people kind of go there, like a resort. I'll stop there.
Yeah, so you're happy to see me too, and you've missed me. And you're happy to be in a circle doing this together. And then you started to say more about what kind of models the four activities at the center might there might be, and one is like a resort model where people come and they stay for a while, and they and and there's staff there who prepare food and do other kinds of tasks of taking care of people.
Right. The other one is a more participatory model. And I know I'm not talking about what, you know, Zack or any or you might might say, I would not. Those are, I don't mean to exclude Ludo so ideas, you know, in putting forth these, but I attended a week Sufi camp in New Mexico and Torian, New Mexico with a guy by the name of Adnan Sahil, who is in Sufi dancing, and that you would go, and you could camp out on the land. They had the worst dormitories I've ever seen in my life, I preferred the tent. And, but then you also had a job and so that everybody there was participating, like we would make the meal clean up after the meal, you know, do some housework, run, get errands and things like that. So it was much more participatory. And it was also quite reasonable to mean that that affected the price, I'll stop there.
Yeah, so kind of in contrast to the resort model, and other models that you've experienced, and you think might be might be beneficial, is a more participatory model. That's more like a Sufi camp that you went to where the people who are coming, they, they have a choice of lodgings, like they could, instead of being inside, they could be outside in a tent, and they have a job to do. So they're helping to prepare meals or some other kind of job, that is a contribution to the running of the thing. And, and that having a model like that also helps reduce costs for people. There's less staff or maybe less dormitory needs. And you also made the point that none of the things that you're offering here are meant to exclude other things, other ideas that people have.
Right, right. I mean, I just see this as brainstorming, and I get excited, but And sometimes, that's interpreted as aggression. I don't mean it that way. So um, let's see, and there was one. Yeah. Oh, and the other point I was thinking is that I thought that Edwin and Charles have done a really great job, in the sense that there was some controversy over this, and they've reached out to the locals. And I think that having either like a local discount, or a certain amount of slots for locals, in other words, really reaching out to the local, you know, the neighbors, and also to the Santa Barbara Community, as a whole would be worthwhile both as politically so that people would know what's going on there and feel comfortable with it. And then the other thing is that I think that it's an excellent promotional tactic, because the people there, you know, are movers and shakers, and they well could be influenced, and then, you know, and force others to be influenced as well. And that was a joke.
Yeah, so the points you're making this time are that you wanted to just reassure everyone that the excitement and energy with which your, your ideas is just because you're excited about it, not because you are insisting that they're the ones that should be done, which has happened sometimes in the past has been, it's been interpreted like that, so you wanted us to know that, and then you wanted Edwin to know, or all of us to know that you think Charles and Ed wouldn't have done a really excellent job of reaching out to the Santa Barbara Community and creating opportunities for people to talk about their ideas and thoughts about the center because there had been some controversy about in the past, and that you think it's a really smart idea to offer things to the local Santa Barbara Community, like discounts on on events or a certain number of slots for local people so that the local Santa Barbara Community is benefiting a lot from the center you think that's both politically smart and also kind of marketing smart because then people are involved in they know what's going on and they can help promote the Senator.
Thanks I feel fully okay
um so I'll go to Larry ready so thanks for all for saying you missed me too. I'm touched by that and you're You're important to me and I feel disconnected from you because we have not been doing stuff together for a while. So yeah, so I want to I want to come see you or something we should go do something together.
Some blue I hear you saying gratitude to to Bill and everyone for expressing how much they missed you and you haven't been participating in a walk for a while. And it's great to see you Again, and you want to get back together and do things.
Yeah. Thanks. Um
so I'll say that I like I like Bill's sharing about the city retreat he went to and how people work as part of it and help that helps lower costs, or there's a range of options for how to stay, because that also lowers costs. And I'm happy to say that, in the discussions I've been part of, were different kinds of budgets have been formulated for how the senator might be run that that what you're describing bill is something that has been considered or amm is in the mix, that there that there would be a range of kinds of people that would come to the center, some are their residential and staying long term, and working like doing real work study things. And others, you know, that would just pay money, because that's, you know, that's what they can do. Or stop doing.
So, Lou, I hear you saying that there's a wide range or spectrum of visitors that could come to the center. And if the Sufi format that bill was describing, in which all participants share in participation events, and even the, maybe the kitchen and the work and kind of envisioning a little organic garden sharing where everyone is sharing, and that would help to reduce the financial burden, so to speak.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's to be examined, actually, whether that really well, it reduced the financial burden for people who are waiting to come to the center, I think one of the things that's a challenge about this particular opportunity or location is, it is a fully developed property that needs maintenance and needs, you know, groundskeeping. And so there are a lot of built in costs that have to be covered. And they're non trivial, you know, they're probably $300,000 A year or something at $400,000 a year. And unlike esslyn, I remember hearing the story of when esslyn was first created, they went out somewhere, and they bought a piece of property that was like way out there. And there weren't a lot of costs associated with it. And so they could, they could start very slow. And they could do whatever, because they didn't have a lot of built in costs. And that is, I would say a problem with this center is there are a lot of built in costs. And so a program has to be developed, it's going to generate revenue, or else it's going to have a negative cash flow.
So Lou, I'm hearing you sharing that contrasting this center with esslyn. Aslan didn't have a lot of financial costs, but this center does have. So again, we're talking about sharing the financial burden, so that it doesn't have a negative cash flow.
Right. And acelin didn't have a lot of cost when it started. It has now, but it didn't when it started. And this is just starting, but the circumstances are are different. So there are a lot of built in costs for what, you know, the physical plant that's there.
So do I hear you kind of contrasting again, when esslyn first started, they didn't have a lot of financial burden. But later they did. And you're contrasting that this center is starting, I think you're saying with a financial burden, right? Yeah.
So the other thing I was interested in, was the things that Edwin was saying about building a culture of empathy at the center, and that the empathy circle practice, of course, is a foundation that that but that that's not the only practice that would that would contribute to building a culture of empathy and that human centered design would be another one. I think maybe restorative practices would be another kind of foundational thing. And I'm not and I and I think it'd be interesting to kind of brainstorm about what other what other practices might be integrated into the center. And that would contribute to a culture of empathy. What other practices other than the empty circle practices help to make up a culture of empathy to promote a culture of empathy? I don't know the answer to that. But I think it's an interesting question.
To Lula who's saying that we should be considering brainstorming besides empathy circles. Other formats that and you mentioned a couple that I don't recall right offhand, but they sounded really great when you said them, and you're saying we should be brainstorming other things. Besides just empathy circles, conflict resolution was one of them. And it was another one that sounded great as well.
Yeah. I said restorative practices. Actually, I don't remember what the other one was.
Restorative practices, as well. And another one, that's brilliant, and it'll be
okay, and I'm trying to see the timer is my time up. It just finished. All right, great. Thanks for hearing me.
Yeah. Thank you. Zack, will you be my listener? You bet. Thanks, Zach. Yeah, before we started the recording, we were having a conversation. And I was really enjoying what you were sharing in that conversation.
All right, just before we started the meeting, so you're you're really enjoying our conversation?
Yeah, yeah. And I think the idea of creating an intentional community could be one of those ideas to be brainstormed.
So you're raising, that creating an international community is a valid thing to brainstorm. Something could be brainstormed,
right along with making an educational center that provides CEUs for local colleges and university or nationwide or it could be I guess, nationwide or potentially worldwide.
So you're raising the potential of developing partnerships within with educational institutions so that you can potentially attend programs for credit.
Right. And I just love the idea of with all that property, creating a huge organic garden that would feed, you know, everyone in the center, as well as visitors, and demonstrate, you know, healthy diet, instead of everybody, you know, dining on cheeseburgers and french fries,
today with the possibility of developing a organic gardening program there, so that a substantial or meaningful amount of the food that's consumed as grown at the retreat center.
Yes, and that all to me, kind of integrates with an empathic way of a lifestyle and empathic way of living.
So you're naming how the intentional dieting and growing that food can and could be developed as part of intentional way of living in that culture of empathy and empathetic way of learning.
And, and notice that the, the grounds has a building this dedicated as what appears to be some kind of a cathedral or, or kind of I don't know what you call that sanctuary, maybe where people could gather for inspiration, brainstorming, but not so much storm, but more creative. listening, listening, yeah.
So you bring up the possibility of utilizing that existing sanctuary. It's there. And a rock the concept of, of, you know, not so much brainstorming, like less storming, but more Braining.
Yeah. And more listening.
More listening. Involve that. Yeah. That ideation was involved in the Muslim processes.
Thank you, Zack. I feel fully heard. Thank you.
Thank you. I think that what hasn't gone is listening. Yeah. So So yeah, definitely. Like, you know, piggybacking on on what Larry was naming about that, about that chapel, I'm sure that that's gonna be a very interesting space with lots of different possibilities. I'm sure there are going to be wonderful ways of using that space in such a way that that, you know, that it, you know, provides some respect and dignity for the original purpose of that building and that campus, you know, and that could I mean, that that's something that I would I would definitely be in favor of, or go for, you know, after all of those a Catholic seminary, and, you know, doesn't necessarily mean that religious iconography needs to remain in the sanctuary. But there have been many religious buildings, even in California's history that had been repurposed, and that the people in organization organizations who repurpose those facilities Do it in such a way that, you know, maintain that historical place. And I'll pause there,
yes, you're buying a sense of respect for the chapel, that there's a Catholic chapel, and it can be repurposed, but have a sense of respect for maintaining the history of it. And you've seen other places that have done that type of transition to?
Yeah, like one potential interesting example, could be, I believe that it was a form of Masonic Lodge or temple, huge facility in downtown Oakland, that was converted to a mosque. And I had the privilege of visiting there a couple of times, and and when you're when you're inside is very much a mosque. But, but that community still maintained a lot of the original identity of the building. And it makes for a very nice and enrich experience, you know, and how that community recreated the space.
So there was a space that had been getting I think, Christian, I don't know what the space but
I think it used to be a Masonic Lodge. Okay.
Maybe a Masonic lodge that was repurposed as a as a mosque, and it kind of maintain some of the previous maybe architecture design and had respect for it. Sort of integrated.
Yeah, absolutely. And so, so yeah, of course, I have a specific idea. So I'll probably stop some from elaborating further on that. But that seems like a really nice, exciting project, and could also be part of community dialogue as well, that could be part of engaging with, you know, the greater Santa Barbara Christian community, or even the Archdiocese, you know, sensitives, a former Catholic institution, and shouldn't be at least having some friendly conversations and dialogue with them and going, Hey, here's some ideas that we have, you know, what do you think and, and their creativity could potentially really contribute?
So, in terms of using that space, and so as a Catholic space, you know, connect with the, with that community of the Archdiocese, they're just having a discussion with them what they think about any ideas, and it's good for creating connection and good relations with the community.
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think, you know, I was raised about kind of, like, you know, the option of like, you know, it functioning as kind of resort. And it's a really, I think it's an interesting, kind of, you know, potential, like set of, you know, conflicting uses, right, because a lot of people if they like, you know, they could expect retreat centers to be very, like, peaceful, quiet, contemplative. Right. And if there are multiple uses going on on the campus, then that could potentially create like, bustling, you know, or energy, which can be good and bad in different ways.
Yeah, you're thinking about the, the energy of the space retreat centers might be, you know, calm quiet. Energy versus if there's multiple events, there's going to be a lot of more different types of energy. So you're just thinking about the nature of the, of the energy there.
Yeah, and I definitely remember, like, I did go to summer camps as a kid. And I remember, like, you know, what could be the most exciting day is that first day, you know, when all the kids and teenagers are like getting off of their buses and stuff like that, from the airport, and we got all of our backpacks and gear piled up on the ground, and we're all like, you know, meeting each other for the first time. And that's like a very bustling, like, kind of activity. And so just that memory, stuff here is just kind of like in terms of designing the cadence of the of the campus, you know, kind of having appropriate times of day for those different kinds of events and omens,
you're really thinking about the cadence, the energy of the space, and just remembering how the energy when you got off the bus with your with your first camp, the the hustle and bustle of it. And so it's just sort of thinking of user design. I guess maybe that the experience people emotional experience people will have. I think that was the time to yep, yep. Thank you. Okay, speak to Bill. Mystery. So, you know, Zack had brought up the structures. I didn't want to kind of give that picture just so everybody sort of aware of it the organizational financial structure.
So, you wanted to elaborate on the organizational financial structure is that Yeah,
so my brother has an LLC and he that was through the LLC purchased the property. So that's, you know, you have that LLC for liability issues to protect your, your other assets.
So your brother already has established an LLC that protects the other assets. So that part is done.
Yeah, and the idea here is, you know, through that LLC is developing the property, we're gonna be doing the renovations. And then we're setting up the empathy center nonprofit. So, you know, we've got 15 years of doing the Center for really a culture of empathy. But it's been more of an association, just a name kind of nonprofit, no money goes through it, I didn't want to do all the double entry bookkeeping, so you know, any kind of donations, people donate to me directly, or I do, you know, work through my own, you know, paid works and my own consulting. So that's, so we're going to take that center for building a culture of empathy, and turn it into a nonprofit. And I'm going through all the books here, how to set up a nonprofit. So that's, we're going to create that nonprofit.
So say, your brother has already established the LLC, and then referring back to Zack sort of model, then the culture of empathy will be a nonprofit, legal and financial nonprofit, and which is another step for the culture of empathy. And that would be within residing there, albeit close more closely related to the LLC, or the your brother than other entities might be, but it would sort of fit under the umbrella of the LLC and be established there as a real as a physical but also financial and legal entity.
Well, yeah, it's not under the a nonprofit is its own entity that stands on its own, and what it would do is rent or lease the property from the LLC. So then, it's like, so we need to create, you know, the, the nonprofit or board, you know, all the the officers and it's, you know, it's a formal structure, and get a 501 C three tax, you know, credit, so you don't have to pay taxes, etc. Or, and then, then that just leases the property from the LLC and right, it runs all the programs does all the kind of stuff that we're talking about.
Yeah, so this fits in. So you just wanted to make sure and I think emphasize that the nonprofit is not under the LLC, or under the direction of that, but it'd be its own independent entity. And however, it would then rent or lease the prop there the space from the LLC, and also get the 501 C three PL funds are tax breaks.
Yeah. So that's sort of the organizational structure to kind of keep in mind, you know, now exactly we do with renovations, I think the LLC is doing the renovations, you know, eventually the nonprofit might do some work on the property, it's but that's kind of like details to work out and trying to get all that kind of set. And then we got to just kind of go through the sort of the formal steps. That's the main projects I'm doing right now is trying to get a handle on all that I've tried to avoid nonprofits because double entry bookkeeping, board of directors meetings, it's just a whole lot of work. But it when we're scaling up to this kind of a thing, we definitely need a, you know, a kind of a formal nonprofit.
Yeah, so you know, so you, you sort of have a division of labor, as far as the renovations are going, the LLC is taking care of that. However, once the nonprofit is established, there might be some collaboration there in that, but you wanted to also and you had resisted becoming a nonprofit before because of all the work involved in the responsibility involved. But that this sort of escalate or scaling up requires nonprofit in order to, you know, to make things clear, and
then work. Yeah, in terms of the aesthetics, you know, I like to so the nature aesthetics, like, how do we create them, it's very institutional property right now, like, you know, like the school. It just has that institutional field, and how do we change that it's user experience, the aesthetics of it, and I liked the whole gardening aspect, nature and gardening. How do we bring in this nature sort of feel? And I've thought of Have a like terracing, those hills to having like a, you know, a gardening desert, you know, semi desert gardening type, you know, terrorist hills, you know, which is like a 10 year 20 year project. So anyway, just just adding that to Larry's idea.
Yeah. And aesthetically speaking, the it's in a beautiful place and kind of deserty. But it's it's sort of an institutionalist they're kind of Spartan, lots of right angles, and then you're looking for adding, you know, gardens and things like that to soften to really bring nature in and integrate it a bit more.
Very hard. Thank you, Bill. Sure. Okay.
Hi, Larry. Ready? Um, so, um, yeah. Well, this is all very exciting. And certainly, I It's kind of gotten my creative juices going. And there's all these possibilities. And then I would come up to me now is that, you know, sort of like timelines, like, you know, practically speaking, when would the nonprofit be done? Is there any kind of work that needs to be done on that extra? The space if what needs to be renovated, what needs to be renovated in order to make it be up to space? So I'm kind of thinking about nuts and bolts. I'll stop there.
All right. So Bill here, it's all very exciting, is kind of like a dream come true. And now that the dream has come true. Let's get down to the practicality, the brass tacks of logistics, how are we going to make this kind of garden of Eden vision actually come into fruition?
Yeah. So anyway, that's sort of, as I said before, then my mix of with sort of creative fantasy, mixed with the kind of framework of physical reality and financial reality that we have to work within,
I'll stop there. Right. So it's, you know, making the framework of the physical reality fit the dream work, vision.
Yeah. And I'm sort of excited about researching, I don't know much about Santa Barbara. I did have a friend who lived there. And everybody raves about it, the climate and everything. And he said, I had to get out of Santa Barbara, because it was just so nice than if I had stayed there. I would have never done anything with my life.
And if you're not really familiar yourself with Santa Barbara, but you had a friend who lived there, and everyone raves about what a wonderful climate, they just love Santa Barbara. And you had a friend who said, I had to get out of Santa Barbara, because if I stayed there, I'd never do anything. Something like that.
Yes, right. So what I'm thinking I can see the hills and I kind of I've, you know, I've lived in places like that. So I kind of understand the, the terrain. Sally talked about a zoo. I've I'm kayaker, and I know that there's some kayaking some whale watching people go out there. And so really looking to kind of find out what's available there. And, and there. Probably a lot I don't know, I'll stop
there. So there's probably a lot to explore in Santa Barbara, including you're a kayaker. So the idea of whale watching and maybe adventuring out in the kayak and the Pacific Ocean. Sounds interesting and intriguing, and maybe a possibility of whale watching from a kayak in the Pacific. And that sounds pretty interesting. Yeah. And other facilities. I think it's mentioned that Sally mentioned there's a zoo there as well. Right?
Yeah. And I'm sure there are other things and the sort of in the, in my vision for the kind of the two day retreat and stuff, people would have options. So people would not be forced to hike or anything like that. They can sit out on the veranda, there's a nice patio, they could just hang out, they could read a book, or they could have these other options.
So with something like a two day retreat to the center, you're envisioning many options so that people wouldn't be forced just to do a hike if they didn't want to they could sit on the veranda and enjoy kind of relaxing enjoying the view doing be many options. It wouldn't just be one thing.
Right? Right. But but the theme, the unifying theme there. And then I'm done is the is integrating the outside in nature with the inside.
And the unifying theme is to integrate this outside amazing nature with the inside.
Thanks, Larry. I feel fully heard.
Thank you, Bill. Lube. Will you be my listener? Yes. Thank you. I love that vision of integrating, you know, all of nature with our own kind of inner garden.
Yeah, so that picture that Bill painted of integrating nature with our internal landscape or internal garden you really like that?
Yeah, to me, that kind of goes along with the idea of integrating this infinite universe of stars and Stardust with the internal Stardust garden we're all made up.
Yes, sir. For you it that really kind of evokes your resonates with your idea of integrating the larger universe, like the whole universe and start us with our internal life, which is a universe of itself with its own startups.
Yes, we cultivate the peaceful garden within, and then it can be shared with everyone.
Yeah, so you would really like to see people cultivating the peaceful garden within? That comes out? shared with others.
Yeah, and it might sound like having other people do it. But it seems like it starts within each of us.
Yeah, so you're really saying that this is a strong intention of yours? To do it yourself? And to have each individual do it Not?
Not? Not? Do it? Yeah, and I'm not trying to say force anyone to do it my way. I'm just saying that it starts within each of us. And it's not about, you know, forcing other people to eat organically. You know, it's kind of like, if we're, if we want to do that for our own health, then we are the example. That teachers.
Yeah, so you're saying, you don't want to force anyone to do anything? That's not your way. You more want to be an example of teaching my people and inviting people into it, and letting people choose it.
Exactly. And to me, that's the way empathy really works.
Yeah, for you, that is empathy. That that that's being empathic empathy.
Thank you, Lou. I feel fully heard.
Okay. I'll go to Edwin listening.
Yes, so now I'm going to I'm trying to remember the other things I wrote of the three things and one of them was what would be the balance between on site face to face activities, and remote virtual activities? Would there be a mix of those? or would there be? And if there is a mix, what would it be? And I think that that's an interesting thing to consider.
Yeah, so an interesting thing to consider for you is what is the mix of online and in person activity. So what happened there?
And then the other discussions I've been in about, about the property in the center. The first time I heard the idea of, you know, well, we can have virtual activities, too. I thought, oh, that seems that's anathema to like, the whole idea is we're trying to create a center and bring people together, face to face. Why would we have this magnificent property and then have vert have people connecting in virtually, but the more I thought about it, you know, virtual experiences can be very powerful, and there would be people who couldn't afford to come there, either because of financial limitations or time limitations or whatever. And wouldn't it be, wouldn't there still be value in having them connect in and get a taste of the center and what's going on there that might motivate them to act Come there and do a residential program.
Yeah, first of all, you heard the idea of virtual aspects there at the center, you were a little skeptical about it. It's like, hey, I want to do it in person. But then the more you thought about it, you started seeing the possibilities of it that people are taking part with someone at the center, they're kind of getting a taste that connection to the center. And you're starting to kind of warm up to that.
Yeah. And I would say there isn't, you know, there's a part of me that would be afraid, like, so if you offer virtual programs like so what if nobody comes? Like everybody wants to do it virtually? Because it's easier, it's more convenient. It's, you know, it costs less money. And so, you know, what if people just want to do virtual stuff, and they don't want to come to the center? Like, that wouldn't be good. So I think I mean, that's fear talking. And I and I usually try to not pay attention to fear. But I think that's an interesting thing to consider. Awesome.
Yeah. So you have some fear, maybe that's talking about is saying, What if people just want to do online? Because it's cheaper, and they don't come to the center? So having some concerns about that?
Yeah. You know, and another thought on the plus side is, you know, the, so the virtual activities is another revenue stream. And it's a very low cost revenue stream, because there aren't a lot of costs associated with doing it. And so the covering the operating nut for the center. The idea of having a low cost revenue stream that would help accomplish that, I think that's a that is a positive, very positive aspect of the idea of offering virtual programs.
Yes, you're seeing more benefits of offering virtual programs is one that it's a low cost. Endeavor, I think it was more of a in quite.
And that it's, it's a potential revenue generating revenue stream that could be significant. Which, you know, for the senators survive, it needs to have revenue streams.
Yeah. The center needs revenue streams, and actually virtual workshops, etc. Could be revenue streams, as well.
Yeah, I mean, there is the there is the technology costs of Well, I actually, if you wanted to do hybrid, so another another idea with the virtuals is having a hybrid experience. So it would be adding a virtual component to a face to face component. And that is an interesting idea also. But it does require significant technical stuff to make that work well to make it work well that the the virtual participants can be seen and heard. And that the in on ground, the local participants can be heard or seen and heard by the virtual participants. That's, that's not an easy. It's not an easy thing.
So you're seeing another option of sort of an integrated in person and online. And that needs a lot of technology to do that, which is not easy to do. Here's sort of brainstorming sort of ideas about that online, in person aspect.
Yeah. So I think the idea, thinking this through, I think the idea of actually offering hybrid events is different than offering virtual events. And so yeah, we might want to keep those separate. Maybe we do virtual events, maybe we don't do hybrid events. So it's something to think about, although the other thing is technology is also a very interesting way of bringing in presenters are speakers that for whatever reason, couldn't be there in person. And I think that's a really powerful way to use technology also to bring in other voices, that that couldn't necessarily be present otherwise.
So another aspect would be to have virtual speakers come in be made projected on the screen, and they'd be relating to people who are there in person. So that'd be like another aspect of just thinking of all the different ways of, of integrating that. exploring that.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, my time's up. Thanks, actually. Oh,
okay. I'll speak to Larry. Ready? Yeah, one one topic might be what are your fears about doing the center? Is like Lou was just mentioning and I did ask my brother you know, that question was brought up by somebody else. And plus, I've been thinking about, you know, empathy circles on what are your concerns and fears just about life in general, that you know, it surfaces his underlying sort of anxieties and it can be very rich in order to explore those.
So one possible topic would be something like, Do you have any anxiety about creating an actual physical empathy circle center and what those fears might be? And this could be come a workshop of exploring? What are the potential anxieties and fears within each human participant to discover what they are and have breakthroughs? You didn't say that word, but I'm envisioning kind of breakthroughs in the area of what might be limiting our, our dreams come true.
Well, fears is something that needs wants to be heard, right? It's like, and so when it gets heard it, it helps move it forward and find creative solutions to address it. So I think it's fears addressing, and I got plenty. Plenty of concerns, fears and anxieties, which is Yeah.
So empathy circles, and an empathy Center is a place where fear can be heard. And that's the essence of the empathic process is willingness to empathically. Listen to anyone, and you have plenty of material for this work. Workshop.
Yeah. And the actual we did hold on one of the visioning circles with the Santa Barbara Community, Charles and I did it at the retreat center with Kristian, who's the groundskeeper? So we had three of us from the center, doing an empathy circle with the Santa Barbara Community. So that was sort of this hybrid already. So that was our first virtual center and community, you know, virtual workshop.
So you already held a community workshop with the local community. Christian, I think you said, Who is the local groundskeeper and your brother, and your cell held a hybrid? Or I think you said hybrid? Workshop? Addressing what are some of the concerns? I think they're saying
it was a visioning circle like this with the Santa Barbara Community, the neighbors? Yeah, it was a visionary neighbors,
a visiting circle like this, but specifically with the neighbors.
Yeah. So that's, the visioning is Greg appreciate bill, I think he's very practical like, is like what's the practical steps, right, there's all these practical steps and I got lists of them and need to really create more of a structured, you know, we have an internal website, Project website, and I'm starting to put together you know, lists of things to be done there, you know, kind of the practical steps.
And you appreciate someone like, like Bill, who, you know, his sailors got a sailboat, and he's very practical and keep keeping the sailboat going. And he is also helpful, we're looking at the practical aspects of this, the center, developing the center, and you're also developing a website that's developing a list of the practical logistical steps that all need to be in place.
There's project management, right, you got your Gantt charts, your scale, I mean, there's just a lot to really setup there for the development. We, when Charles and I were there, last time, we spent like two days, three days just moving furniture from under the, under the chapel, just like all kinds of furniture, moving it, you know, closer to the dining room, and a place where we can start throwing stuff out. So you need to get a container, you know, big container, and a lot of stuff needs to be thrown into that then we need to sort the good stuff and use that and maybe giveaway or sell, you know, other stuff. So that's kind of like just you know, the nuts and bolts of kind of stuff that needs to be done. You got to schedule all that. And yeah, there's a lot of sort of detail work.
So in the website, you have Gantt charts that lay out
Gantt charts and need, you need like Gantt charts, which
you're developing a website and you need to develop Gantt charts that help with scheduling, the timelines of getting things done like you and your brother. Were there moving furniture from the chapel around and deciding what needs to be go in the dumpster and what can be used and There's a lot of physical on the grounds, hands on, work to be done.
Yeah, it's a huge amount. That clock is hard to see. But it looks like my time is up feels really heard.
Yeah, thank you, Edwin zactly, you'd be my listener. No, sir. Thank you. Yeah, and so a lot to envision.
Since the lot, so, the whole vision.
Yeah. And I see it as a shared opportunity where there's a lot of hands on deck. Sharing is not done by one person. But it's a shared activity.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's way too much, if not impossible for one person, but this is collective that shared, it's a community activity to do this.
Yeah, and I think Gantt charts would be very helpful.
Okay, and you're pointing out, like the usefulness of Gantt charts in like, tracking out timelines, in projects,
right. I think it's one of the great computer developments is to have these timelines that you can edit, you can adjust and you can put more energy into a project if it's not being accomplished by its timeline.
Yeah, timelines change. And so being able to change those timelines according to the realities is is useful It's good
right. And I really enjoy you know, the practical aspects that bill is sharing with each task you know, it's comes down to somebody's got to put their hands on that chair if it's gonna get moved it's not gonna move itself
Yeah, so you appreciate bill being nuts and bolts about it and then going into specific problems to dues that need to be accomplished.
And I enjoy listening to lose vision kind of bringing up have kind of an above the battlegrounds vision of the whole project
at the same time you're appreciating Lou doing like the higher order visioning discussion as well.
Yeah. And Edwin's willingness to to take on this dream of a lifetime and be willing to work through whatever anxieties present themselves
Oh, yeah, you're you're you're just sharing respect for Edwin's leadership and even like taking this on. And, and in navigating, like the anxieties and fears and kind of bumps that are completely inevitable in this kind of journey.
And people like Zach, that just appear one day out of nowhere. All of this expertise in the whole shebang
fair, yeah, it appreciating me who shows up, you know, for the first time in some months out of nowhere, and that I'm just engaging energetically.
Yeah. And this this vision keeps growing and becoming known. It just more and more energy will show up to get the job done.
Yeah, and kind of taking all these examples of different people like in this setting right now like that. These examples show like kind of that momentum as like people will continue showing up and then doing the thing making this happen.
Right. And the evolution of this dream as it manifests will be inspiring to more and more people who hear about it.
Yeah, and that as this momentum keeps building, more people become exposed to what we're doing here. And roath is is in front of us it's just gonna keep on manifesting and all in reiterating as part of what I think I'm hearing to like the dream keeps changing throughout.
And I love Edwin's idea about the gardening and kind of tear steps along that hillside. I love that vision.
Yep, and yeah, you're just like, you're loving on the on the gardening aspect and you said like, tear steps and like, Edwin's like affirmation of that like okay, we're gonna do some terrorist gardening And, and, and yeah,
exactly I'm envisioning that these boxes, these gardening boxes that are, you know, elevated so you don't have to be on your knees to do the gardening. You can stand and do the gardening.
Yeah. So that boxes, these gardening boxes should be elevated enough so that people who don't want are maybe necessarily comfortably able to get on their knees to garden that they can access, just like everybody else.
Thank you, Zach. I feel fully heard. Pleasure,
thank you. And add one. I hit you up. So So oh, man, that one I remember. Like, you know, some years ago, like, over a number of conversations was chatting about like nonprofits and incorporating. And, you know, definitely remember kind of like, you know, weighing those pros and cons and like, Man, are we like scaled yet? Is there enough fundraising that would happen to justify a nonprofit like, and to hear you like, like, disclose that like, Yep, no, we got LLC, we're doing a foundation. I'm like, seriously, dude. Like, I'm so excited. Like, great, great job, bro. Like. Yeah, that's,
you're really excited. Because before we had talked about, you know, funding organizations, you know, nonprofit building, and then you're hearing that sort of an actuality now, it's like, it's real. It's not just speculation is turning to something real. And you're like, really excited about that?
Yeah, man. Totally. Yeah. And and I think, you know, there. Yeah, you know, everyone, I have so much respect for you. And it's like, I think that, like your leadership have, like, this foundation is assuming assuming you would serve on the board and like, be part of the foundation? Like, you know, I think, you know, it, I think it's gonna be great, I think I think your leadership is, is, is going to continue to be warm, inclusive, radically inclusive, as even you're doing with this visioning process. And, and that, you know, you know, personality, and culture that you bring to the table being channeled into it incorporated entity is, you know, it's going to be awesome, you know, because we're going to be able to build these systems, and, you know, more and more people will be able to, you know, click in and participate.
So you may feel it for my personality or leadership, kind of an open inclusive, one will translate into the organization and kind of be able to build on that. So you're kind of appreciating that as sort of a foundation for the organization.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, it's like worth, it's worth saying, like, out loud, even though it's like totally implicit that it's like, like, Edwin, like, you have, like, my unconditional trust that, like, you're not going to, like turn into like an evil selfish person. Like, you have, like, complete unconditional trust on that. And, and, you know, and actually part of the excitement, right, you know, because we live in a society where, you know, we do you have a lot of corporations that, that do do damaging things, you know, that, that don't necessarily act in the public interest or in the interests of their customers or their employees. And, I, and, and, you know, I just think it's, it's a really good thing, whenever anyone, you know, founds, you know, a for profit or a nonprofit company, with really good intentions and mission at heart. And, you know, because, you know, the good, the good part of having these densities is that, you know, they give us, you know, good legal boundaries and financial structures, to, to scale and to accomplish, you know, important missions, that that we want need to accomplish,
to appreciating sort of the intention, that of this of the center and the intention that I bring to it, as well as the legal structures that are there for a reason that they create certain boundaries and, and have have benefits to kind of bring that energy, I guess, maybe the energy into the world or?
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, and I think the, you know, maybe maybe it's not a day too soon, but, you know, I'm excited for the day where, you know, this foundation reaches a little maturity of being a little like pay a development employee, you know, someone who's professional and fundraising, they've done it for years, you know, they can do it You know, really help, you know, this this center like succeed? And, you know, and I think you know, that's just like one thing that comes to mind, right, it's like not bid now that tax deduction is on the table. You know, I think, you know, even some of the first stops can be other foundations, you know, and looking for their support.
So you see that now having that structure, it can get the donations, the financing, maybe support from other foundations, and this can kind of you see the potential for it to grow. And because of that, and you get the donations to develop the work,
totally data. And the last thing is, is emphasizing just like empowering people in a professional capacity to support this work,
and to create a framework and structure to empower people to support the work and the mission, I guess.
Yeah, totally. Yeah. As like a professional in a professional capacity.
Okay. Yeah. So yes, it's turning into a professional structure that people can get on board in a professional manner. foundations can get involved, etc. So it can really create a framework. Yep. Growth.
Absolutely. Yeah. And that volunteers are still I'll leave it here as volunteers are still super critical. And core, at the end of the day, like volunteer leadership and contributions is like, that's, that's core, the movement. But adding that, you know, that level where we can start getting, you know, organizers, fundraisers, people who can be paid on a part time or full time basis, and they can make this their career, that that's the that's the next level.
Yeah, there's done a lot with volunteers. But this is like a structure people can get paid. They can make a career out of it. And you're just seeing the benefits of having that core. That core even you still have volunteers, but you got a core group that have their careers connected to the to it and have that foundation. Yeah, great. So we just have about 15 minutes, I thought we could just open it up. Maybe just a quick review of the headlines of what we each had come up with. And maybe I'll just start with that. So it was on my list was hold online visioning empathy circles, which is what we're doing, create a community of empathic practice. So we've kind of explored that open the space to a wide variety of workshops and practices was another heading a culture of empathy as a vision with you know, multiple things, but under that practices, why is empathy core of creativity and innovation, human centered design, it connects with human centered design and creativity and innovation, clarity about the organizational structures. So he talked a bit about the organ organization structure, the co working space model, and when I heard about kind of like an incubator organic gardening, grading terracing, there is shared team that is needed team to work in person and online. And I didn't mention this but in the in the books and nonprofit folks, they talk about creating special specific projects. So it could be like a sub Center for Democracy and empathy that somebody kind of leads that project and then can funders can fund a project you know, directly it's kind of like what you're saying, right? Or center for peer counseling. So somebody's leading that getting paid and then donors can actually donate for those projects. And you know, empathic conflict mediation restorative practices can be so those are just some of the things that I kind of heard and kind of wrote down I thought very good just go like glue you are next on the list.
What pops up for me is the virtual and hybrid programs you know, whether that would be an element of what's the center all the other things I think I talked about I think you mentioned already
Okay, and Bill
um, yeah, it all it all sounds good. And I thought that I just feel that this is coming to fruition and I'm just kind of working to see where all the parts fit and where I might be helpful.
Right, and Larry, how your outline of what you heard and
on your I still like the organic gardening idea. I think it goes in line with the of the garden within, and the garden all around us, that sustains us. And the kind of the respect for that nature, within and without. And then the second one was an intentional community, where we're living our intention of an empathic way of life. And then the third one was to be an educational center, initially thinking for local colleges, providing possibly CEU courses, maybe on center, which would be addressing something Lou was sharing about, you know, why have the center there, while come to the center for the CPUs, and enjoy the garden and the intentional community, it's all there. And that can be shared online as well. So those three things
are meant just that, for the 501, C three, there's different categories, and the one that we would be coming under his educational, so we really have to build up, you know, for legal reasons for 501 C three for the IRS is really be promoting, you know, focusing on the educational aspect of it, and then everything kind of fits under that empathic education. Framework. Yeah. And that you had a bunch on your list there.
Yeah, totally. Yeah. So just encapsulating talked about professional integration, talked about, you know, like incubation, basically, you know, incubating for startups didn't really go into that too much. But it's like, you know, for profit and nonprofit, you know, ventures that are in alignment, or producing goods and services, that take advantage of reflective listening, take advantage of, you know, making, making those behavior more common in human society. And one thing I didn't really get to touch on, but just briefly is, you know, because it's so expensive to travel to California, you know, I definitely believe in support, you know, fundraising, funded trips, scholarships, for non US residents, you know, I think that would be a really substantial contribution to the growth and stability of democratic institutions around the world. You know, if we have activists, you know, who are advocates who are coming from, you know, all around the world, and, and if this work, you know, benefits them could benefit their activism, then then seeking funding to get them here, so that they feel like, not just getting the training, get the education, but so that they feel fully included in this global network that they are, they're a part of it. And they are, they're leading it. So we'll stop there.
Okay, so what do you think that good next step, what are we are going to be holding these circles, you know, for, for a while to, I find it's good for, you know, kind of community involvement. Now, I'm reaching out, I mean, this is great, this has been one of the funnest circles, because everybody here is sort of really, you know, on the edges based, you know, grounded in the vision. And so this has been this is, this is really great to connect with everyone who visits, the other circles had been more at the community, Santa Barbara, they don't have the understand yet the vision of the space, and you all really understand the vision and really behind it. The Empathy, you know, culture of empathy. So, any thoughts on Submit next steps? Zack Kenny,
yeah, I mean, I would, I would say, in the end, I would definitely be interested in supporting, you know, really like getting the nonprofit running and getting its operations going. It sounds like there's a lot of building and construction that needs to occur on the site. And it can be hard in the short term to articulate specifically, you know, specific plans for the site. But at the same time, there are probably lots of different options to, you know, minimally develop the site so that it, you know, feels warm and habitable. And, you know, basically what I'm pointing out is, you know, basically try to try to launch some kind of programming, you know, as soon as reasonable, essentially, you know, because, you know, when we're, we'll learn so much from just people being there, and their experiences and how they're even using the space and based on you know, those experiences that'll that'll tell all of us a lot about how the site should be further developed, and then what the programs are gonna look like.
Right, Larry kind of next steps. What do you envision?
Well, keep on Having these virtual meetings and develop that and, you know, listen to bill with what are the logistics, the brass tacks to be addressed? And keep sharing this so that the vision becomes the inspiration that brings more participation.
Okay, thanks, Phil. Any kind of practical? Next steps? Sure,
yeah, practically speaking very much are in line with what Zack talked about as far as what do you need to do to get a small group in there, and then do a prototype, you know, empathy circle event, it could be training could be not, or it could just be, you know, a bunch of facilitators will come together and experience space and doing that. And so I think that I understand this practical things to do to for the nonprofit and things like that, and that's beyond my paygrade. So I don't quite understand why that that might need to be done first before that other stuff happens. But I think it also is important to simultaneously try to get a group there, get people experienced there, have a small workshop and things like that, and see how it all fits together. I think that's the beta testing that that I got from Zach. Thanks. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think I think you're doing a lot of the right thing. So you've already got a lot of tests that you're doing. So creating the nonprofit, holding the empathy circles, getting the input from people building relationships, I think that's all really important. And the the renovations on the site, that's also the prime, there's a process there that's happening. And that's a lot to hold. So I think you have a lot on your plate right now, I do think one, one thing I can think of is, if you haven't already started gathering emails and contact info for the people that you come into contact with, who are practitioners of various kinds of things that could happen at the site. If you're not, if you're not keeping track of those contacts, and like creating a list, and a mailing list, I think that would be a wise thing to do as you go through and meet people and find out about them and their, their interests and what they do. So that when you do when you are ready to start the program development phase of the work, which you know, is probably sometimes here, and it's certainly not waiting until the renovations are done to do them. You know, you have you've been building a list and you have a list of people that you've already that no use to some degree already, that you're reaching out to is kind of in a follow up way to look at whether they would actually like to come do something at the center? And if so, what would that be? And what time of year and, you know, so you could start putting on building.
Now you had mentioned about holding like a community event, we talked about that? Just from what SEC is saying, you know, we could think about, you know, I'm not quite sure when like, I think Zack had been wanting to go down there and you're you kind of go in that area. I don't know if Phil is willing to travel, it's quite a long trip, it's seven hours. But then we go and actually do like little mini workshop just to get the ball rolling is a way to, you can stay there. There's plenty of room. There's no curtains on the windows, you know, there are bathrooms, it's all kind of working. There's that we could maybe do some kind of initial, at least I don't know, if you're willing to travel. It's kind of a long ways, Larry, but for us, I think it's kind of doable to go down there and just have a small group get together or something like that might be I don't know what we think
you mean, just us? Or do you mean us going down to put something on for the community?
At first, I'm taking just us kind of doing something. But when Charles and I went down, we just sent out an email invited the community just gave them one day notice and you know, eight or 10 people showed up. So just because they wanted to kind of check out the space. So I'm not quite sure but the first thing is, is just us. You know, doing some kind of a workshop, but then I see kind of looking out for fight means that you think it should be better if it was we're doing it for the community or something.
Actually, I think it'd be a combination. So I like the idea of going down there and hanging out in the space and thinking about stuff. But if we were if we were there for like a weekend, a portion of it could be that we hold a tree training for community members, you know, maybe an empathy circle facilitator training, where we're exposing them to the empathy circle, rather than teaching them something about how to hold one and let it and having them practice, you know, supporting them and practicing. I think that would be I would say that if I went down there and spent a weekend there with us all together, that would be great. And having the community come in presenting something for me that would make it more meaningful. I think it would also. Yeah, so that's what I would advocate for.
Okay, so it's just a matter of kind of thinking, I'm not quite sure when the time would be because I do want to get through this nonprofit stuff, get that rolling. And there's a lot of cleanup to do. But we could actually do be doing this, there is a room that's like the library that is you know, space for doing something that's like, there is there's still a lot of junk, a lot of stuff to be cleaned up. But even before that's all all the way we could be doing something, so I'll just kind of think about it and discuss. Yeah, Bill.
Yeah, everything sounds great. The only thing is maybe reaching out also to some of the local people at Crystal. You know, there's Sally, there's some other people around here, just to have a little bit more of,
you know, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I know that Dwayne, he was in Japan, but he lives in Las Vegas. So that's might be doable for him. You know, and then Linda could be fly? I don't know. But I know, there was just, you know, kind of open it up to more the facilitator group a little bit.
Right. Yeah. Yeah, you think you
need to think about what size group you would want? And what kind of what size group can actually stay there? Because I know, there are a lot of rooms, but I don't know what kind of shape how many spaces there are actually that people can, you know, inhabit. So,
yeah, there's a lot of like old mattresses. I just grabbed one, it's the rooms are. Okay, the structure is,
I've got to go. The thing that I just realized this afternoon, so I'm late for it. So. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you.
So in terms of this space, let me just let me find it.
Yeah, I would, I'd love to hang out with you guys. And I think like, the format of like, like a smaller facilitators group, like maybe like, could be like, up to 10 or 12. People potentially, like if we like, have like, a two or a two day thing or three day thing, potentially. And then like a larger event, and I think it's totally fair to set the expectation that like, Hey, folks, we're just, we're just like, kind of throwing something together here just to try something out, you know, we, like prepared something, but, you know, this is like, kind of a laboratory experiment. You know, we're gonna play with some different things here on so I think most people will find that super exciting. And I think that'd be very patient with like, you know, roughing it a little bit or like, okay, like, you know, there's some things going off the building, I honestly, I think most people won't care, you know, and it'd be a good time. Like, you know, if we're camping a bit, and like, you know, by all means, I can sit and try to get like, some of the, you know, yeah, you get what I'm saying.
So, yeah, the rooms right now are very bare. So it is sort of camping in that sense. The, the, there's no beds, there's tons of mattresses, but they're all there like, some of them are really, really raunchy trying to pull out the best ones that we can have sort of, just, they're just throwing, you know, just the mattresses are just throwing on the floors of the renovated building. There's a there's one building if you saw the map, actually may give a
like, someone like really needs a bed, you know, like physically, like, could we could try to accommodate that. You know, and you can get a bed set up for them.
Yeah, well, you know, don't be maybe some old mattresses. Let me just share this. Just to give you a sense of the,
I'm down for workday, I'd won you know, it's like, you know, I'm down for you know, you know, doing something basically to prep a room or something.
Okay, but yeah, there's, there's this building here if you just see my mouse is my mouse. Okay, so this is like the staff quarters, and there's seven rooms there. So I have a room there. The groundskeeper has a room my brother took a shared room there for his family. So there's a couple you know, extra rooms there. This part here. There's a recreation room and then a dining big dining room and then the the kitchen in there. So, you know, so the kitchen is not really functioning, you know, really, I mean, some little bit of cooking might be able to be done, but it's not really serving people. Then there's this building here, which was called the sisters residence. So this is where all the priests live, you know, the top of the hierarchy of the Catholic, you know, seminary, they had nuns living in this building, there's another seven rooms here with two rooms Share, share a bathroom, and so that there's like seven people can stay there. And then there's a nice little workshop room in there too. And then these two buildings need serious renovation. What at this one, and there is a library that had been used for AAA meetings and stuff. And then this is the chapel. And let me see is another view of it. So you can see it's a two storey chapel and we're clearing out we cleared out the The basement has like a like a church, it has a recreation room in a pretty big recreation room, we want to put in wood floors. So it can be a place for things like dance, yoga, things like that. There's a little room in the back. It's like another workshop room that takes you out to the this lawn here. And the lawn is looks out. I mean, you're looking out over Santa Barbara Santa Barbara. Oops. So it's a pretty good view of Santa Barbara, the ocean and then the, the the islands behind there. And then there's so these are the buildings that need renovation, whereas these behind here have been renovated.
So is that left one that's in front of us the dorm?
Yeah, yeah, this was, uh, this is a dorm. This has been classrooms here. And they had without a permit, they had converted it into more dorms. So they had a lot of people staying here, those, you know, 100 over well over 100 beds, there's little tiny cubicles, you know, just but there's a bunch of mattresses, rooms, all this stuff needs to be cleaned out, you know, we're going to bring a dumpster you know, put the dumpster here and just be you know, hauling, they'll type a couple of dumpsters to haul everything out. So people can stay in these rooms here. We can just, you know, throw some mattresses on the floor. And, you know, for doing like, a couple day, you know, this initial camping sort of event. I didn't want to make it too big, but you know, kind of kind of our
core what what's that? What's that a barn in the back? Oh, kind of looks like it's a basketball court. Almost. It is. It is a basketball court.
Yeah, it is a gym. So this is a huge gym. Like this is like and so it has two basketball courts in it. And then it has two rooms in the back like with weights and that kind of stuff. exercise equipment. So it had been sort of a a, a center for Yeah, they had had basketball games for youth groups had come there done stuff. So
where's the is there like a facilities building? Like where like utilities are going on and stuff or? Yeah, that was a distributed?
Yeah, it's kind of Yeah, you mean like where the the facilities manager would be doing their work and stuff?
is it that little square guy that is a garage and now be it you know, right now I think it's a garage or this is sort of the loading zone for the kitchen because the kitchen is here so you know load loading you know food and stuff like that would they come here drop stuff off. But I would imagine like the facilities are you need tools you know, hold tool workshop for doing all the repairs, all the gardening tools need to be kept somewhere. It could sort of be used these two garages can be used for that.
And how was how was the plant heated? Is it a boiler system or more distributed like electrified heating
I think it's distributed I saw sort of these boxes new. So this
Oh can be like wall heaters? No, it
potentially No. It's, it's central as kind of a drag because they have two heaters in this, in this building, they have, you know, two rows, you know of rooms, and they have just one switch for the heating and air conditioning for each side. So it's central and it's really hard to control the temperature of your own rooms, kind of a. And then I've seen kind of in the new area, they had like these little boxes, you know, a heater, and maybe its air conditioner heater together. So there's all these systems that, you know, I don't have any clue really what all those, you know, there's, there's sewage system, there's water system, there's electrical heating and air conditioning system. You know, it's like, it's all, that's all still quite a bit of a mystery that, you know, people with technical backgrounds, you're going to have to kind of figure out, you know,
I love this stuff, everyone's your is your brother have background in like real estate, or
this guy he's into. Like, our family, our father is, like, if you talk about a property manager, or facilities manager, he's kind of the guy because he can fix anything, but he's 94 years old. So he's not about to go down there. What is his mentality, kind of that engineering able to any system, you know, he can take it apart, you know, find the problem, fix it, be it, you know, a mechanical thing or a physical thing. So, you know, Charles has a bit of background with that, too. So a bit of that technical mindset. But he's been just he's kind of like a kind of a stock market genius, just day trading his where he made his money. And then he's bought some apartment, you know, some property to develop. And this is kind of, I think, the next sort of property development project. And it was sort of a whim, which we've talked about in other circles, is, you know, he just saw this as a maybe a good deal. It's like he was bidding on it. He said, Okay, I'm kind of done. Then it said next price meets reserve price, which is seven and a half million dollars. I was like, their minimum they bid up to that said, All big one more time. He hit the button, and then he got it. So it's, it's kind of it's not like this was a big thought out planned thing was like, Oh, here's a good opportunity. I'll just see if I can get it at a good price. And then I guess he kind of thought, well, you know, who now I got this, who kind of can manage it. And he thought, oh, maybe I would be interested in managing it and and then we got the whole empathy center could can just scale up and just fit into that center. And we have a mission. Right. So it's a retreat center with the clear mission. So yeah, that's just kind of the background. Okay, well,
yeah, that's Oh, so that would do you know, when you're gonna go down the SIR next month?
Um, I think it might be in a couple of weeks or so I'm not quite sure I, it's like, I'm supposed to be reading this and setting up the nonprofit and all this other stuff kind of keeps taking up time. So I do want the other paperwork to get started on all this. So, you know, two or three weeks maybe.
Okay. I would still love to make that conference. So if it ends up working out like you're gonna take it for the week after.
Yeah. Okay. Well, we can talk about that then. I you know, I hate to be so wishy washy about it because but it's just, you know, so many factors to and again, there's nothing there there's no shades on the window. There's no shower curtains, there's no curtains on the window. It's like grab a mattress, you know bring your own sheets and blanket. Basically
yoga mat. Yoga Mat,
yoga mat yoga mat, your yoga mat and sleeping bag. Okay. You continue to keep you two Long's are going over. So thanks, everybody. Great to be with you. They can't see you