yeah, and again this also this ties in. I just want to kind of somewhat recontextualize this for our listeners in terms of the progression and trajectory of these nocturnal meditations and so Rubin in my kind of mapping or cartography of the exploration of mind, one of the, this is my term neologism nocturnal meditations, were nocturnal is basically a code word for subtle. And so in mind mapping of this there are five of these practices. The first one is liminal dreaming, which I guess more classically is called hypnagogic hypnopompic you know that kind of pre and post phase which is actually a very interesting dimension, that people usually hopscotch over to go to the goodies of like lucid dreaming. I just want to say a brief word about that, I find liminal dreaming to be particularly rich because unlike the dream state where usually the egoic narrative is back online, more or less there's even though it's not articulate there is a relative sense sense self sense in the dream, I'm experiencing this, well in the liminal space, we can actually watch that deconstruction and that narrative actually come on down and so liminal spaces and liminal beings in a certain sense your liminal being situations places Bardo like experiences that don't fit. And this is a really with, with, you know, correct observational intent liminal dreaming becomes a very very interesting way. In fact, to watch with a really sensitive lens of the mind, how it is in fact the self actually comes undone. In fact, if it didn't, we wouldn't fall asleep, right, that's one definition of insomnia. So just briefly, so we're living on dreaming that progresses and matures into lucid dreaming progresses into Dream Yoga progresses into sleep yoga luminosity yoga progresses into Bardo yoga, a fundamental narrative along those five is the kind of a Gailey and transcend but include where each succeeding practice transcends but includes his predecessor and so therefore in a very real way what we're talking about here. I want to just recontextualize this for our listeners, is we're shooting all the way to the top, we're talking about Bardo yoga Bardo yoga transcends when includes all five, and by this what I mean is that in a very real way, As far as I've been able to determine it for decades, is the spiritual path. In particular, and meditation in Joshua say the spiritual path in general and meditation in particular is really kind of death in slow motion. It's a way to titrate in other words on our terms to drip. This process of de reification this process of of death and dying. And this has colossal implications, I mean, one of which is the following that you know if we can discover now the illusory nature of the the delineated ego self the problem of life and death is solve. And so is my friend David voices, such as the Buddhist goal, to discover that which cannot die because it was never born. And so understanding this, like what we're talking about here goes really deep. I mean it is actually a way to go all the way to the top to fundamentally reveal the death of death. That death is an illusion, that is fundamentally itself, a construct. And so by deconstructing now dying now on our terms, according to the wisdom traditions that is I've come to understand that we can actually penetrate through the illusory nature of death itself, and realize that this, this fundamental continuum and this is not we're hopscotching all the way into the domain of the true non dual traditions, understanding and discovering this dimension of mine that actually is not subject to the ravages the vicissitudes of space and time, old age, sickness and death deconstructing all the way down to that which cannot be deconstructed because it was never constructed, the very fabric of Formless awareness itself. And so this is where I want to take the conversation if you're okay with it for just a few minutes to see how that resonates with you. I know as a scientist, sometimes, and I asked this question to my dear friend Richie Davidson. And he, his answer was wonderfully agnostic, he said I don't know where I am, I say to Richie, you know, if I'm putting you on the corner. Are you comfortable telling me that that mind equals brain. And he said, Andrew, I said I just I don't know, I'm agnostic on that. So I'm asking you a number I'm throwing a couple noodles against the wall here Ruben I'm wondering how they're landing with you. Are you able to maybe starting at the end. Make the proclamation that mind is in fact reducible to brain or are your models and understandings both experientially, and do your research, allowing you the opportunity to do that, perhaps, in fact that is that reductionism is slightly facile malicious. Well, deep stuff. Are you okay going here.