Yeah, gnocchi. Hello everybody, the big totally goofy wave. Hello to everybody all my European friends. Hi, Mariana. So nice to see you. This is so cool. Hi, everybody. All my friends, all my enemies. I was supposed to relate to everybody with equanimity I'm trying. Anyway, very sweet. Thank you for joining. Thank you for joining us here. So this is our Thursday gathering thing we've done if you're new, we've been doing this how many sessions now end? How many we done? So this is our 16th 16th. Wow. Yeah, getting up there. We started this during the COVID thing. We're going to be trimming this back just a little bit, because so many people in the summer are traveling whatnot. So we for that for the rest of the summer, we're going to go to the first and third Thursday of every month. So starting next week, I'll be here again, then there'll be week off, then I'll be back then there'll be week off that kind of hador just to kind of concentrate things a little bit more. And because of the travel months, we've we've definitely noticed in a lot of my other people who do this sort of thing. People are celebrating the COVID restriction release, and they're traveling. And so we're just gonna relax a little bit and back off to every other week.
A couple things coming up. I'm going to be interviewing tomorrow. An astronaut. I think I might have mentioned this on Monday night. Ron Graham. I just had dinner with him last night again, really great guy recently moved to the area reached out to me. He wrote a couple of really cool books, the orbital orbital perspective, and the one I recently read floating in darkness journey of evolution. He's a really cool guy. And his website is unbelievable. I'm going to be showing some clips from what he does. He's a fighter pilot. He was in Desert Storm. Well, you guys done amazing things. And so I'm going to be interviewing him he reached out to me actually. Because we have some interesting things to discuss in terms of like perspective, I mean, these who has more literal perspective that an astronaut for goodness sakes. So I'm excited about that. That's tomorrow, also confirmed Ruben Lakhan, who is a neuroscientist out of Amsterdam, I believe. I've had some communication with him for the last couple months. He's a really cool guy. He's a poet, artists type guy are super sharp, thinker neuroscientists. And so first, I think first week in August, I have that schedule with him. And there's other stuff cooking around that is pretty cool. So some wonderful people on the horizon. And he's going to paint in the chat column. Some events that are coming up. Now we're starting to get the word out about these. We finally have the numbers on the deep dive, lucid dreaming program. That is the biggest program I do of the year on this topic. So it's two, three day weekends separated by about a month so we can practice what we're preaching. We finally got the numbers for discounts because people were asking about that and I called members premium members get 50% off on this. So that's a real gift to nightclub premium people. So called free members that are just doing the discourse platform and all that get a 5% discount. So hopefully you can join us for that. This is again, my deepest dive of the year, I really enjoyed this program. So mala mountain center in August, my week long program on the Bardo, becoming also really excited about this program, this will be my first in person thing in 18 months. So I'm super psyched about that. There's a registration thing. And then this new program I'm doing in Sedona, some of you may have been there for my previous programs. This is a brand new program I have not done before, on exploring the wonders of the mind, post mindfulness kind of thing. So lots of cool stuff coming up. And if you have questions about those, the SMC program, the Sedona program, while these other ones, we can't run any discounts on those, because those are not under our control. We are under the so called embrace of these other entities. And so we don't have the kind of flexibility unfortunately, that that we have when we complete the stage program. So hope you understand. So today is a little bit different. I broke a tooth. So I have to go see a dentist, I hate dentists, I hate them. And as you know, I'm a dentist. So that should reveal something about my relationship to myself, right? So anyway, all kidding aside, I have an appointment at 320 my time, only time I get get in before the holiday. So I need to close this pretty sharp at about 10 minutes to the hour to run over there and have that damn needle put in. And I mean, all that stuff that dentists do. It's just like. So anyway, because of that, I'm going to go right to the questions, the questions. Again, these questions are so great. That's why I really enjoy my time on these Thursday gatherings. And if you haven't been here before, often I'll do some kind of spontaneous riff on a topic. But because I want to address these questions, I'm going to go right to them. And if the person here is here, who asked a question wants to follow up, you can raise your hand. Otherwise, if you have a question you want to ask, you can raise your hand, you can put it in the chat column you can send it and your opinion and also into the dock here. But I'm gonna jump right into these because again, they're just so cool. So some of these are a little bit long ish, but that's okay. That kind of creates the proper context, and really helps us avoid it. So first one here is from Tim again, these are so great. First of all, I want to say thank you so much for creating the sub song that guess that's what this is. That song is a kind of a Hindu gathering type thing. Many of you know that term. Thanks for saying that Tim. Great space for spiritual seekers to come together and share. Also, thanks to Andy Yay, Andy, for his great hosting abilities and in keeping all things going No kidding. Big thanks to my dear friend. into all the others involved. Yeah, there's like four or five other people behind the scenes. So there's a lot. So thanks for saying that, Tim. So here's the question back when I first signed up for tm in the late 60s, it was presented or marketed as a technique. So tm is transcendental meditation. It was presented marketed as a technique and path which would produce greater and greater peace, joy and bliss in the practitioners life.
Well, this has been true to some degree, it certainly has not proved to be the complete story. And I'm going to interject some stuff, Tim, as I go along. Yeah, you know, it's been the same for me. Again, no criticism at all for tm, I think is awesome. But just like with you, Tim tm was my first thing. And this was a little bit later than the 60s. It was a while ago, it was a big deal of infamy but similar to you. There wasn't a particular path quality that resonated with me. So while I have so much respect for that tradition, because it didn't have the kind of support and development I simply transitioned into what I'm doing now, but I still am a huge fan of tm. So back to his question. Is it concepts of emptiness and impermanence have some deeper and deeper and I see this lifetime flying by doubts arise as to my completion of the journey in this lifetime. My yearning for enlightenment or awakening has not lessened good for you my friend. But my but my time left in this life has done so substantially. I have to chuckle because like, isn't that a harsh truth? Yeah. And as the older you get, the faster the years click by right. Was I heard Sean Carroll this physicists say something like we have some odd say like 3 billion heartbeats in our lifetime. And with each one of these heartbeats, you know, the talk is like talk, the clock is ticking. So we should take these teachings of impermanence is ways to inspire what we're doing so back to you. At times, this awareness gives rise to doubts and feelings of despair. I know that you have dealt with these as well on your journey. Indeed, I certainly have. Therefore, my question would be how Do you How did you or how do you deal with doubts and despair, which arise within the spiritual journey? Okay? Well firsthand, it's part and parcel of the path, right? It's completely normal, I think that's the most important thing to understand. And again, as I keep saying over and over, because it, it warrants being said over and over, it's so important. We don't exist along with one locus of identity, we exist along the spectrum, from really evolved to really kind of not so evolved from ultraviolet to infrared, so to speak. And so these feelings of doubts and despair, we all have them, you're not alone. They're part of our history, they're part of our karmic path, this residue, that, that really fundamentally don't serve us. And so the way to work with that, Tim is, you know, pay attention to a very limited degree feel, but don't feed these feelings in these thoughts. Realize that they're actually coming from these less evolved aspects of your identity, and we don't want to reject them and repress them. But we don't need to pay attention to them. That's just the voice that we don't listen to.
Like William James says, reality is what you attend to. So just don't attend to it. Don't deny it. But don't attend to it, just say, oh, there is mystery, you can actually even label it. Some of the past practices do this, you can actually even label it, anthropomorphize it. So when you have these feelings, you can say, oh, there's Mr. Doubt and despair. DND. Here, Mr. D, and D has just come back. Oh, more than welcome, Mr. DND. Here's the welcome mat. But here's the exit side. And so therefore, you acknowledge that reality, you're not repressing it, you're not denying it, but you're not paying attention to it. It's not serving you. In the whole Buddhist path. In one respects that tradition talks about the path as being what to accept and what to reject. Well, you accept the voices you attend to that which is inspiring. elevating, keeps you going. And then you don't simply don't attend to these lower bandwidths of your identity. And then all the wild realize, oh my gosh, that, like my teacher camp, or mpj said is me amazing. Master, I loved it. So point blank, he says airing and airing, I walk the unerring path. And so we trip we follow, we stumbled we made countless mistakes. But we like the Dalai Lama says we never give up, we just keep going. And all the while knowing here to him, this is where the right view of what's happening is so important, all the while knowing that while we may not be aware of it consciously, there is transformation taking place at unconscious levels, for sure. Technically speaking, your substrate consciousness you're all over town is being transformed. And so whether that is a manifesting overtly or not, even if it isn't, something is happening underground, absolutely, positively. So you just keep going. Knowing that that that is actually what's taking place, you're putting heat and energy into the system. And the really good news is, of course, when we transition when we die, well guess what happens, these unconscious elements processes come up. And so by working with the stuff, you're actually there's more going on in the self help thing, there's more going on than meets the eye. And the seeds that you're planting will will definitely bear fruit at the time of this transition. And so therefore, you just like the Dalai Lama says you just never give up. You just keep going. For me as I get older, what I do is I emphasize him more and more. That's called an intake the heart essence teachings. So I get I spend more and more time on the formless meditations. This is just me, the non dual teachings. And fundamentally, it may even sound somewhat ironic. I spend more and more time just relaxing. Not in a siesta or Margarita fashion which of course sometimes I do that that's great. But I mean relaxing in a spiritual sense that they're fundamentally celebrate your life the way it is. Nietzsche talked about embracing your fate. just embrace your reality the way it is, enjoy your life, celebrate it.
Work with the idea of the middle path, the middle way the magic isn't Metallica, the middle way where there's Yes, there has to be some effort paradoxically. But if there's too much effort, it backfires. it backfires. And then you get despondent, or, and despair is like I'm doing all this stuff and nothing seems to be working. Well, it may not be working again, unconscious levels, but something's happening unconsciously. So we have to titrate we have to find this balance between not too tight, not too loose. And the constancy the elephant's gate is what really counts. You just keep going. But really honestly my friend, celebrate where you are celebrate the year even on the path. The journey is the goal. The journey is The goal so what you're doing is the goal, celebrate that. It's a journey to nowhere. It's a journey to now here. So don't be perhaps, so goal oriented. You can make aspirations for improvements and the like. But remember what Suzuki Roshi said so beautifully, it's the kind of the irony of the paradox of the path. Beautiful statement when he said, You know, you're all perfect, just the way you are. But you could each use a little improvement, right? That's perfect. Let me say that again. And it's so true. You're all perfect just the way you are. But we could all use a little improvement. There's, there's no word irreconcilability there that this is just part and parcel. So rest in the view of the kind of divine nature of your being the perfect purity of who you are, celebrate, enjoy live your life. And fundamentally, just keep going, just keep going, knowing that all the while things are happening. If you want a little deeper look at this, I wrote quite a bit about this in my first book, the power in the pain, exploring the hardships, or what is it transforming spiritual hardship into joy? That talks a little bit more about the deeper aspects of this. But just to reiterate it because it's such a great question. And Tim, what you're feeling is 100% normal, if people haven't felt that they haven't been on the path very long, where they're probably not being very honest. And again, this is just part of this bandwidth of our identity and how it relates to the process that these things do take time. And fundamentally, clarifying substantiating the strength of your own view. But the view of mine the view of reality, which fundamentally will allow you to relax to realize that everything really that you're looking for is already 100% right here right now. And so we have to play not too tight, not too loose, dancing between the absolute and the relative perspectives. And then and then enjoy the ride. Literally just enjoy this ride, celebrate your life. And if you do all this, oh, my gosh, life will take care of it itself, you're going to be totally fine. And no need to stress at the highest levels from Burbidge a said striving is the only obstacle. So just relax more, really celebrate more, have more, have more fun, have more fun.
Okay.
For the in person retreat in Sedona from Chris, is there a vaccine requirement for the participants? Ooh, another good question. Ah, notes to self. My people do all this stuff for me, my wonderful team. And this is something that they know and I don't I literally don't know, Chris. I don't know. I want to say I don't think so. But I don't want to say that and have to backpedal. So let me just notice elf vaccine for Sedona. Honestly, I don't think so. But I have to check so I will look into that for you. Okay, Glenn, I'll get to your question in a second. So here's one from Fran This is just an offering this is more offering not a question. I started getting interested in lucid dreaming a few months ago is I have always had amazing Oneiric experiences on our ology study of dreams, and natural lucid dreams and finally decided to dive deeper. Then read your book on dream yoga, and it opened up a whole new world cool, and introduced me to Buddhism even more cool. I started finding answers to questions that have plagued me for years, and finally started diving deeper into my spiritual path. Thanks so much for the content. Thank you for sharing that friend. That means a lot really. Thank you for for that very generous offering. For us. Hi, Andrew. I really enjoyed the replay from last week. Yeah, Charlie Morley. Isn't he awesome? He's a rock star. I really love this guy. He was the interview with Charlie Morley, Charlie talked about facing his fears. Yes, indeed, and his dreams. Can you talk about facing fears and dreams? What kinds of techniques can I use? What can I do to not get overwhelmed by the fears? Sure. Great question. Well, first and foremost, understand the nature of fear itself that that is so central. I'm going to send you to some references. I will say more, but I'll send you to some references if you want to go deeper with this because this is a super important topic. Because fear, it's the bed of relative reality. It's the underlying emotion, really, of the whole samsaric agenda. And so sooner or later, if you're on any legitimate path, you have to work with fear, because it's the basis of the whole relative shebang. So with that in mind, the fact that you're even willing interested Doing that is a Kudo to you, I encourage you to continue to doing to do it, I have actually used this kind of Maxim that I came up with riffing off of Joseph Campbell, follow your bliss. Follow your fear, you really want to grow in this life, follow your fear, because fear is the minion of ignorance. And you will learn so much more about yourself, if you follow your anxiety and your fear than if you just follow your bliss. I'm not saying that's incorrect thing to do. It has provisional validity, for sure. But if you just follow your bliss, you'll just get blissed out. So following your fear is super important. I've used this adage, this Maxim to guide a large part of my life going into really long retreats, not as a kind of spiritual thrill seeker have to look into that shadow side. But to realize that if I don't really establish a relationship to the sphere, I'm going to live my life from it. And that is, in fact what that what it means to be asleep in a spiritual sense that you live your life. It's a very sophisticated avoidance strategy to avoid this thing called fear. So for references, I have an entire chapter in my book dreams of lights on integral fear. There's a whole course on my website working with working with fear and anxiety in an uncertain world. So I have a whole program on this because it's so important. It's actually part of classic dream yoga stages, I think it's my stage four. So in short, is a colossally important topic.
The ways to work with it first and foremost, like I just mentioned, is really strive to understand the nature of this fear. What is it exactly? What is it made of? Where does it come from? Why does it arise? What am I really afraid of? These are monumental topics. And if you really look into them, they will lead you These questions will lead you to foundational truths, because fears is like a gauntlet that protects you from these deepest truths. It's what ego uses to keep you away from the truth. Because ego is is basically woven out of this matrix of fear, which is why you can campaign on it, you can capitalize on it, you can sell it, look at the politicians that do so. So a relatively speaking, you can you can do it by the methods I just suggested, really exploring this thing called fear. And the more absolute level realize that fundamentally, emptiness cannot harm emptiness. And this is a central teaching in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, where it never is fear more acute than around situations of death and dying. And so you can really, if you really want to conquer fear, you can use this this kind of twofold approach all these relative mechanisms of exploration, investigation, understanding really what it's made of. And then on our absolute level, working with a profound understanding of the nature of fear that fundamentally if you take a very close look at the nature of fear, and so the technique here is like this is go to how do I do it, using the practices of analytic meditation, like we've been doing on the Monday night session, so you can listen to those we did like four or five sessions. We work with investigating anger, but you can absolutely replace the word anger and all the comments that His Holiness Dalai Lama used when I referenced him, or when I talked about anger, you can replace that with the word fear. So the idea here is use your analytic mind to dissect to look very deeply into the nature of it. And this will fundamentally reveal to you that the while fear does appear energetically, it's a paper tiger fundamentally, there's nothing there, but this energy. So all I can say in short, is because this is again, it's such a rich, deep, vast topic is bark up this tree, it may not be comfortable. That's why deep spiritual practitioners are called warriors. That's why deep spirituality is a warrior tradition. It takes courage to look into these dark places. But I encourage you to whatever extent works for you again, titrate not too tight, not too loose, explore, work with it, go into it. Some other references that come to mind. Lama Zopa Rinpoche, che wrote a wonderful book called wholesome fear. That's absolutely worth looking into. Bruce tift, my dear friend writes about it quite extensively in his book, already free Buddhism, meat psychotherapy on the path of liberation. Trump very much he talks about it. I think there's an entire book called smile at fear. This is a big deal. topic. Shambala the sacred path of the warrior dears deals with it bravery and courage. So because I already have split sets, So much about it in previous other contexts. Also, and you know, the program all my all my Bardo teachings burned on. There's at least one talk devoted entirely to this topic. Because again, never is fear more concentrated around end of life. So with your permission errors, I'm going to refer you to some of those other resources, because the topic is just so voluminous. Okay. All right, let me get one more and then I get a couple of these live ones. from Mary. Hi, Andrew. Yes, once you briefly mentioned that ringing in the ears may be something other than the fact that you need to see an audiologist and get fitted for hearing aids. I have a ringing more like a buzz in my ears that I don't notice during the day. But if I start to meditate it I notice it immediately. I'm curious to know if this may be something different than assigned. Yeah, hard to say very. First thing I would do, like you seem to suggest is I would see your audiologist if you haven't have them do a test. Because I had a tonight is this called tinnitus. In my left ear, I lost high frequency hearing, I had to see an audiologist, I did all this stuff that actually didn't help a whole lot, I still had it. And then fundamentally ended up just losing a little bit of high frequency hearing in my left ear, which sometimes can become very convenient. Like, you know, when somebody says something you don't want to hear, you can just ignore him. Oh, sorry, my, my hearing is really bad in that ear. So anyway, just kidding.
The other thing that they can be so see the audiologist First, I would probably argue, I'm guessing 80% 90% of any of these types of things usually are auditory in nature. In other words, there is an organic cause. But there are some instances where you can experience this kind of background sound of the Dharma TA. And this gets quite a bit more esoteric really quickly. So I'll just say a little bit about this. And again, can you do some Oh resources, there's a book by triangle rubbish a must, if I can drag up the title there. According to this particular set of teachings, there is this kind of background hum sound. And in practice, what you can actually do is literally just plug your ear. So this is this is worth trying later, I don't really want to do it now with you. But the instruction is to literally just take your fingers and and just completely plug your ears and kind of rest it feels a little weird at first, or you can use silicone earplugs and really jam them in there. And notice that the outside of the initial kind of neurological buzz or hum, you may actually notice a more subliminal type of sound, it's usually not high frequency. So this is why I'm saying most people when they have the ringing in the ear, that's a higher frequency that tends to be organic, physiological, the sound of the Dharma tie is is more infrasound it's it's deeper wavelength. And that is more like a sub kind of a sublimated roar, so to speak, then a high ringing sound. But there there are practices where you can work with this. The sound, by the way, parenthetically, is revealed in the Bardo automaton. Another person, I'm pretty sure who writes about this cool recharter read her books on medicine, pretty darn sure. She has a section about this kind of thing as well in her book. So I would hate to say it married, but I would probably say 80 90% chance this is purely organic, but I can't say for sure. It could in fact be the sound of the Dharma topic if it's actually a ringing. That's generally not the the frequency where the sound can be detected. It's more like a background, deeper infrared roofer kind of sound. Okay. So there's a couple raised questions, and then I'll come back to some of the written ones. So Glenn, I think has had his hand up for a while. Hey, buddy. Okay. Hi. Hi. You're no longer in a green room? Well, this is somewhat a related to it. Yeah. Well, actually, I am in my green room.
Yeah. So my daytime meditation practices kind of centered in this statement, awareness relaxes into itself. And so I have been recently like the last six months saying, maybe I should approach dreaming, liminal, dreaming, lucid dreaming with the same thing and not apply so much
expectation and vibe to it, but I'm part of the Sunday dream share, and everyone's got all sorts of things that they're trying To do, and I'm in this period of just relaxing, and saying, Well, okay, I'm not even necessarily going to make an aspiration, am I taking two different practices here and confusing the, the, the underlying motivational strategies? Well, there's two ways to do it. But it's actually least a good point, there's two ways to go about this, the relative and the absolute. And so the relative way is the more conventional way, which is where you do something, you learn the induction methods, you do the prospective memory, you do the mile dial and wild techniques, you do all the blah, blah, blah, that is totally effective, and absolutely, positively works. And so when I do my presentations, when I write in risk, we talk a heck of a lot of about that, because it does work. But the more unconventional way is is also utterly viable. And that is that if you simply relax open to the nature of your mind, awareness of awareness, lucidity is a natural consequence of that relaxation. So they both have very viable trajectories, and we can work with both. So what I would recommend is perhaps, spend equal amounts of time with with both that on one level, it's a little bit like what happens in the two accumulations, accumulation of merit and accumulation of wisdom, accumulation of merit involves effort, habit, karma, that sort of thing. And you work you do the practices, you do all the stuff. But then what what we bring to it we meaning that contemplative traditions, is this really non conventional, more radical approach of relaxation, that if you simply just open relax, a natural consequence of that is, in fact lucidity. And so that may seem contradictory. But that's only to the conceptual kind of binary mind. It's not contradictory. There are two completely viable ways to work with lucidity. And I work with both as well. Glad I do both. As I get older, like I mentioned with the first question, I spent more and more time with the openness relaxation practices. So lucidity is a consequence of that resting in awareness of awareness. But then I also continue to conjoin it with all these relative means. So a lot of it could be predispositions like what speaks to you, if you find yourself resonating more with the relaxation approach, maybe listen to that voice. If you find yourself wanting to ping out to do more the relative path of efforts path of doing listen to that voice. So they're both completely viable. It's just that the wisdom traditions bring in the relaxation, absolute approach was which isn't even in the purview of the more conventional approaches that make sense. Thank you. You're very welcome. Cool. Okay. So I'll get one more live one. I think it was Karen right. Excuse me. Hi, Karen.
Hey. So today you've been taught? Can you hear me? Okay? I can. Oh, wonderful. It's been talking a lot about relaxation. Quite a bit today. But I wanted to mention is I was reading a book that you may have recommended, called why materialism is baloney.
Oh, yeah. Bernardo was like, Yeah, what do you think? It was hard going, but I got a lot out of it. Yeah, he's amazing, guys. Amazing. I mean, the fact that he comes to these conclusions, purely through reason is is stunning. In my opinion. Yeah. I'm a cautious fan of his work. But anyway.
Yeah, I wasn't I mentioned a metaphor that he uses in the book. Yeah. of the one mind as a body of water. Yeah. And the world pools within it are individual identity, which are still part of the one intelligence, right, we coming from the one water we go to the one water when we die. And so it would seem that individual personalities and existences are a whirlpool, in this field. And thinking is kind of charges of energy.
He talks about vibrations. Exactly.
aerations. Thank you, and these whirlpools. So I've been working with this. And when I think of the one body of water, it's conducive to relaxation, ice, and conducive to sleep. Sometimes when I think of sleep is going down. It was challenging. Yeah, no, I have a lot going on. And oh, it's like floating on the one intelligence and I go to sleep. So I'm also when something is causing me anxiety, I'm in my personal Whirlpool, as everybody is, and the Whirlpool is having whirlpools within whirlpools. That's right fracking. It's intense. And at that moment I lose contact with the one that is everything. Water. Yep. So I was wondering what you feel about this metaphor?
It's no, I think it's brilliant. I mean, he, he's, again, there's so many clever things in his book, burnout is one sharp cookie. And so, you know, several things I really appreciate. One is that when you start talking about these sorts of things, you have to use different languaging. And so he transitions into the language of metaphor, which is in itself brilliant. And then as you know, some of the metaphors get pretty complex, right? First, it's just a metaphor of water, then as a metaphor and mercury. And you know, he's just trying to it gets a little complicated. But the general thesis I think, is absolutely spot on. And the the notion of the Whirlpool, I think, is quite brilliant. It's analogous to what Trump mpj talked about is the cocoon. That was his languaging. That was his metaphor. But that's absolutely the case that that we again, using that metaphor we get we we spent around ourselves, and the center of the game, there's so many things to say about the metaphor at the center of this Whirlpool is nothing, but we create something out of the mere velocity, and even the Whirlpool itself represents samsara, which he doesn't say any of this, which is why I actually want to interview him and say, Bernardo, you can, this is exactly what the Buddha says, I'm gonna actually see if I can get him where the whirling around is basically related to the 12 Madonna's to the to the actual samsara, which is coral and Tibet, which means the circulars, the spinners, and that when you die, you know that clenching, that speed relaxes, and you return to the water. I think it's a really brilliant metaphor. And again, that type of relaxation that allows you to let that Whirlpool kind of relax, open dissolve, and then it just definitely returns to the water of which is actually made. So I'm not sure what else you want me to say about that. I think it's a really, it's the most powerful metaphor in the book. That's why it's actually the cover of the book. And I think it's pretty, pretty clever thing. So any anything else want me to say about that?
I would love it. If you interview him.
I'll try it again. Yeah,
also, it's helping me to have more compassion for people that were in our own whirlpool of the beliefs of things and understanding that this is person's stick or whatever. thing Yeah. And if I can bring more of the relaxation of the field to it is actually is a little contagious. Like urine contagious? Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. Wonderful. So maybe you should get a waterbed. You remember those goofy things? You plop lobby. seasick when I got in those things, you know, they're like to trippy.
But yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. connected with Don Hoffman's work too, or is it?
No, yes. And no, there? Yeah, that's a huge topic. Yeah, they share some similar approaches to things. But they're also they're also on different trajectories. But I appreciate them both tremendously. They're really clever people that are bringing their work in are available and open to so called spiritual principles and non dual teachings on the like. And so that to me is pretty cool. So I'm, I'm fans of both of those thinkers. I think they're pretty great people. So
yeah, awesome. And one little quick game here that there's an implication there and some of these teachings. So much, we can't know about existence, embracing the unknowable. Well, we can't.
We can't know what were the conceptual mind for sure. Okay. All right. Yeah, no, you can't know it with a gnostic mind. You can know it and we're using a completely different epistemology. Conceptually, no, you can't know it, you know, the non duality cannot know non duality by definition. But duality and non duality can know itself. And so it's an it's not knowing in the conventional sense. It's kind of gnostic in the deep, mystical sense, it's still knowing. But this is really when knowing transforms into wisdom, where knowing is still somewhat pejorative, dualistic is connected with consciousness and duality. Fundamentally, there's a deeper type of knowing that we call wisdom that is non dual. So yes, provisionally, on a conventional level, you can't know it with your conceptual mind. But you can know it in a deeper sense of embodied sense of the kind of spiritual sense. Okay, because you are right. That's exactly right. Well said, well, thank you. Welcome. Okay, so here's a really good one from Canada. I hope I pronounced that name properly. How am I doing for time? I got a few minutes. So this is more a question. I'm sorry. This is a comment more than a question. I'm still new to nightclub. Welcome, thanks for joining, which is wonderful, but I have to weigh in a bit about dream Among other things, as a psychologist, I work with people's nighttime dreams for inciting healing Good for you. The one difficult thing I keep bumping into in your comments is the idea that non lucid dreams are simply phantasmagorical. Or just another level of illusion of this myth on this material plane. Not quite. And I will tell you what I mean by that. However, with careful study, even non lucid dreams have incredible depths of meaning. I need to clarify right away, I couldn't agree with you more. So, yes, I agree with you 100%. That, there's so much to learn. And I still work with this accurately, I just don't emphasize it. That's the the kind of more classic dream interpretation thing you don't even even floydian phenomenally important. And I continue to do it myself, I continue to have these big dreams, I shared several of them over the last couple of months, where some of them are so big, I got some of my dream expert friends to help me interpret them. These are life changing dreams. So my take on this and this is really important is I have an integral approach to dreaming, which means there's there's a vast spectrum of applications skillful means related to the entire spectrum of dreams. So I don't categorically dismiss this level, not at all. But it's a little bit like the relationship between meditation and thought, when you're engaged in meditation. You don't give a wit about the content, it just is irrelevant. That would be like saying, Oh, you know, I'm dismissing psychology. No, I'm not if I'm using that daytime practice, no psychology works with drain content. It's tremendously important, tremendously curative. It's just that the meditative component during the day or the dream yoga component during the night in my working of a transcends, but includes it's not interested in content doesn't matter.
That what really matters is transforming your relationship to that content, self liberating that content, not trying to psychoanalyze it and interpret it, even though that is 100% viable. It's just a different bandwidth of applicability for how you relate to dreams. So that part, you're misunderstanding me if that's what you're picking up, or maybe I haven't been clear enough about it. So this is really important. You know, they say my little riff on this is, what's the jingle? I don't know if it Freud said it, somebody said it, I can't keep all these attributions in mind that an uninterpreted dream is like a letter unopened. That's really beautiful. Well, why was the letter sent in the first place? Right? Why was the letter sent in the first place? I'm more interested in that. But again, I don't dismiss I totally agree with what you're saying. 100%. So it has to do with integral dreaming, the way you relate to it? completely appropriate. So in fact, most James, this is you again, most dreams that seems to be just the dream are packed with psychological material that is profound. Well, I'm not so sure. Most dreams, I would say a lot, but not most. Because a lot of dreams again, using this bandwidth of phenomenal arising a dream itself. A letter dreams are just neurological noise. They don't all deliver messages. Some of them are just garbled letters using that analogy. But yes, a lot of them are packed with material being sent up for sure. In other words, Carl Jung was right. Absolutely. He was right, completely agree. These dreams are always pointing us not always, not always, to a greater degree of wholeness. I wouldn't say that I would say maybe sometimes, or in the words of young pointing us to the big self. The trick is to learn to unpack them without the ego getting in the way 100% agree. This usually means needing the help of other people because as we know, the ego can't see the parts of us that aren't to completely agree. Learning to analyze dreams is huge. Absolutely. An extraordinary study, in certain concepts need to be integrated for the analysis to be helpful. Again, I 100% agree with you. This involves understanding some basic archetypes and then learning to pay attention to even the smallest details totally. that emerge and dream I listen to my interview both with the two interviews with Claire Johnson, my dear friend, and listen to the one with far Reba bogs are on. We get into this in a little bit of detail. But the overarching idea is to realize that are not lucid dreams are full of symbolic energies, not all of them, some of them for sure, that are working to help us become more integrated. I believe that once we can do this reliably, our dreams will become increasingly meaningful, and hopefully more lucid. I agree with that, too. It really is a mistake to undervalue our very retreat worlds. I'm not doing that. They are full of important information sometimes that our deeper selves are trying to communicate with us sometimes. Again, that's just my view. Regardless, thanks so much for your teaching. Thanks for for clarifying this and allowing me to make sure that's clear that I'm an integral dreamer, that there's a vast spectrum of applicability with working with dreams. Okay. So Judith, I think is there, I can maybe take one more. And then unfortunately, trust me, I'd much rather sit here and talk to you and get my tooth job on. I think you understand what the holiday coming up, I kind of got to do what I need to do. So Judith, go ahead here. Yeah. Can you hear me? I can't. How are you?
Andrew? I'm good. I just have, I wondered if you knew James Lowe? Have you heard of him? No.
How do you spell his last name ello.
W, he's I just discovered him on YouTube. And he's talked a lot about dakshin view. And I found him so helpful. And I was just wondering if him I think he's Scottish. But the other thing I just want to quickly say is that I've had for for over a year. Now, these feelings when I, before I go to sleep, have a kind of dissent. And it's, it's very scary sometimes. And then recently, I slept downstairs because of the heat wave. I slept on the day bed where there's a curtain which you can see through an upstairs, I have everything pitch black, because I have difficulty sleeping. When I lay there, and able to see I saw a tree branch and I saw the calligraphy of it really well. And I suddenly felt no fear, because I felt I was everything. So what is there to be scared of? What do you think of that? I mean,
it's beautiful. And this ties in beautifully to the question earlier. I think it was Eris yes fundamentally, that you know what and again conjoining this with the comment about the Whirlpool that that when we become one with everything, what is the apana shots right where there is other there is fear. So, you get rid of the sense of other guess what happens you get rid of fear. So, that is exactly when you dissolve when the Whirlpool relaxes using that metaphor, when you dissolve into the tree or whenever you become with with one with whatever arises. Well, this is also tied into the emptiness cannot harm emptiness thing that basically means the both you and whatever you're perceiving are empty of inherent existence and therefore subject and object actually dissolve together. And then the consequence of that is tremendous bliss. And unreal, fearless gusto, you just there's no fear, it just completely dissolves, because there's no other. So all I can say is fantastic. Good for you. I mean, that's a that's a pointing out it's a natural glimpse in what's important to stay here, Judith is that that's actually the natural space. So when you have these glimpses that may seem so special, on one level, yes, they are relatively special. on another level, they're totally ordinary. That's the natural space to rest in that space of non duality and fearlessness. That's the natural space. But ego because of history and all kinds of things, contracts, spins, whatever metaphor you want to use. And then from that self and others created, the minute that happens, fear is born. And so right there in relation to heiresses question, this is why understanding this and the Upanishads are also obviously helpful here. Understand that with the very birth of duality comes this birth of fear. So that's how central This is. That's why fear is such a colossally important topic. So all I can say Judith is congratulations. Good for you. And please continue. Thanks, Andrew. So Jeez, everybody trust me I would so much rather sit here and talk to you then get my tooth drilled on every other question that was submitted your top of the list for next week. I apologize for having to leave. But I think you understand what the holidays coming up. How am I supposed to eat my hotdogs, hamburgers and chips? Well, actually, I'm a vegan so I can't eat anyway. Anyway, I gotta get my tooth fixed. So let's let's say a quick goodbye to everybody. I love it. Sorry, you have to run. For Hey, Andrew Smith scored. Don't swallow. Bye. Thank you. Bye bye.
