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Hi, my name is George Abraham and welcome to Eyeway Conversations. My guest today is Mahenoor Ali, who is a civil service aspirant and a postgraduate in Mathematics from the prestigious IIT Delhi. Hi Mahenoor, welcome!
Hi Sir. Nice to meet you.
So, Mahenoor, you've been a Math student and you've done a Postgraduate degree in Mathematics, how come you decided to take on the Civil Services exam?
My actual aim was to do PhD in Mathematics. I wanted to become a leading researcher. I was inspired by Ramanujan. When I appeared in my PhD interview, so, I was rejected due to my visual disability. One day I went through the syllabus of civil services, I was interested and I also was reading about Babasaheb Bhimrao Ambedkar and his immense contribution for the upliftment of SC community and one of his statements inspired me that any communities cannot get success, unless it has a representation with it should have right to represent itself in all the organs of the government from bottom to top. Now, the problem is that we have the laws, but we lack implementation. Implementation is too slow. So, this inspired me to go for civil services and to serve community and indeed, this will make me serve more of the country because we cannot be developed and we cannot become a superpower until and unless everyone is developed.
So, civil services, people take years preparing for it. There is a lot of reading to be done and the examination process is also quite elaborate. As a blind aspirant, how are you kind of preparing for it?
My parents and other teachers, they saw the talent in me and they said you are very good to become a civil servant. So, there was something like this in my mind. And that's why I took a course in rural development and I participated in the Bharat Abhiyan of the central government.
Yes.
So, this was how I was building the base in Msc itself. I was very interested in the discussions of the rural development and all. I did a lot of projects in the course. In 2020, I made up my mind so I had to collect books. So books are in very small font, and most of them are not available in accessible format.
Right.
So I had to go from shop to shop to get it done in A3, very large font. Only one person in Kanpur agreed to do it. So that's like handwritten notes and all or some coaching material, which is not accessible because it is scanned material, so that I did it in A3 format. And I want to mention about Unacademy. It has made its whole website accessible for blind person. So it's great. And secondly, we have this Amazon Prime and Kindle. So many books are available there.
I wanted to know here is what subjects are you doing?
Ah my optional subject is anthropology. I took it because I was interested in genetics from childhood. I also studied in Odessa because my father was posted there. So I stayed with the tribals. It was a tribal district. So I was kind of interested in tribals since 10 years back. So anthropology deals with all these, it suits my taste. So I took the subject.
So is Mathematics one of your subjects for the civil services or Mathematics is not an option?
No, Mathematics is an option but I didn't take it because it had a lot of applied Mathematics. And I'm not interested in applied mathematics. I'm interested in pure mathematics.
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You been visually impaired right since childhood (by birth). And you also talked about large print and A3 size enlargement of your books and so on. Does that mean that have some vision? Or are you totally blind?
I have light perception.
So how do you read large print if you have just light perception, somebody else reads it out to you or?
No Sir, shapes I can recognize. And letters are also shaped. So I have practiced since childhood in that way. I didn't learn braille.
Okay.
It's because of my intense practice.
Right. So I wanted to ask you, you know Mathematics and Science are subjects that blind and visually impaired people hesitate to take. Because one, there is a shortage of teachers who can actually teach blind and visually impaired children. Secondly, I don't think there's enough material available to teach blind and visually impaired children. What kind of prompted you to take Maths and Science in your school?
Actually, in my home, my father was an engineer. And my grandfather was a Kanungo. So both were good in Science and Mathematics. And they inspired me and from childhood, I was very good at Mathematics.
How did you actually learn Mathematics?
I would like to make a special mention of my father here. It would not have been possible if he was not there. So since childhood, he used to teach me. He taught me up to class 12. So I used to prepare my lectures beforehand. I used to be like in close contact with the teacher. I used to ask him what he will teach in the next week, next two weeks, next month. I used to prepare beforehand. So in the class, I used to come only for asking doubts. And to make speed, I used to listen to what the teacher is saying since the teacher used to read. I used to tell him beforehand that I have this problem. Then he used to understand and most of them, they used to give reading, like, whatever they are writing on the blackboard they use to read and then I used to write it with the help of assistive technology.
What technologies did you use specifically in school?
Yes. So when I was in class one, I went to LV Prasad Eye Institute. There was a Japanese technology at the time invented, and that was a cut away magnifier.
Okay.
So that magnified up to 6x. So this helped me a lot. I can say, this has become my virtual life. At the time, I didn't have any access to computers and all. So with the help, although it was very difficult, I had to bend a lot to read with it.
Right.
I faced many hardships. But the results are was like always good. I was the topper in the classes. And when I was in class 9, I went to NIVH one day just to visit it. And there I saw people are working with JAWS. I came to know about it. And since then, I am using JAWS up to my masters.
You moved from Kendriya Vidyalaya to Miranda House, Delhi University. It's very rare that you know, in Delhi University or any university for that matter that blind students get admission into Mathematics. Was it plain sailing for you or?
I had to struggle a lot because when I applied for Delhi University, I applied in many colleges, but no one was accepting me. And I went to Miranda House. I'm very thankful to the Principal, Pratibha Jolly, she was there at the time. And she helped and she was very inspired to see me. And then she was very interested. She said, "Don't leave us. Just stay with us. We are taking your admission". It was like, I can say that when I entered Miranda it was Miranda House. And when I graduated from it, it became Miranda Home for me.
Oh, that's very interesting. Can you can you kind of explain how did Miranda House become Miranda Home for you?
Yeah. So first of all, the immense cooperation of the Principal and the Mathematics department. They gave me- suppose in case of diagrams, some geometry figures are there. So they used to explain to me by using large diagrams on my copy. They used to take extra extra class for me. I never said it but they did it by themselves. They were very happy to teach me and I had six courses of practical also, in MATLAB, Mathematica and all. They used to assist me in that also, because JAWS couldn't interpret outputs which are shown- the diagrams, the figures, graphs, and all. So the teachers used to explain everything. This has been drawn and now the output is this. So in this way, I used to understand.
Okay, the other interesting thing about Mathematics is a lot of it is based on concepts.
Yes.
And, you know, you have subjects like trigonometry or subjects like geometry, and mechanics, for instance, where the learning happens through a lot of seeing visual. Now, obviously, all your classmates were sighted people, you were the blind person.
Yes.
So how did you actually understand the concepts of trigonometry or geometry, or mechanics for that matter?
Okay, so first of all, my father used to explain to me. So sometimes, they used to make like figures on my hand, so that with the fingers I can feel it. That's how it goes. So that in turn, made an image in my mind. And they used to explain it like with full interest. And they had the way to explain it, so that I can make an image in my mind. And secondly, the most important thing, which helped me was the MIT lectures, like I can suggest one linear algebra by Gilbert Strang. They explain it in that way, so that we can just follow everything. They keep in mind that anyone can attend the class, even the visually challenged person also.
So what I understand from your explanations or your narratives so far is to actually study Mathematics, it's important for the students to have a passion and interest in Mathematics and the brain that actually understands. And two, the teacher who teaches needs to have a very clear understanding of concepts so that they can put these things into words rather than depending on diagrams.
Yes because diagrams can also be represented into words. I know one professor, he's Professor Kumara Shin and he was from Hyderabad Central University. He retired. He is a person who never wrote on the blackboard. He just speaks and everyone understands. So we need that kind of teachers.
IIT Delhi is a very prestigious place to be in and very few people have the opportunity of actually doing a postgraduate degree at the IITs. What was your experience there?
IIT is a big campus. The distance between my hostel to the department was roughly 1.5 kilometers. I initially had no idea about it because I had never traveled alone. So again, my father came into my aid. He took leave, he stayed with me. And he in just half an hour, found one method that I can just feel the surface geometrically with my feet and cross the road at some particular angle. There were tea points and all. So then I practice that. And then within two, three months, I was independent and I could just move from college campus to residential hostel campus independently. So this was one challenge. And secondly, the teachers there didn't have any idea about the guidelines, what guidelines are there for persons with disability. What are their rights and all. So I had to educate them.
Okay.
So I had to face a lot of like rebels from my teachers, but it all gets subsided. Because the Deputy Director, Professor Bala Krishnan was there at the time. And he's very passionate. He helped me a lot to get the rules implemented, and all like, he used to reply emails within three to four hours with actions done. And so it was very good. And his Assistive Technology Lab also is there, that also helped me a lot. And I had to teach the tell the teachers also how to teach me. So this way- like initially, it affected my grades also because I couldn't complete things on time and the tests because there are so many tests, comprehensive tests are there- but I didn't lose hope. And my last semester grade was 9.6 I think.
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The question I would also like to ask you is obviously right from school to college to your postgraduate degree, there were classmates that you had. Now how did the classmates kind of react to yound how did they engage with you?
Earlier, they were not friendly at all. But as soon as they realize that I was a topper. And I had a knowledge better than everyone. Because I used to assess my teacher also in solving the questions when they didn't know.
in school or in college?
In both. So most of them, like became friends, because I used to help to.
I also was reading that you actually did some teaching, was this informal teaching or you actually taught a class?
It was informal teaching. Sometimes in school, my teacher used to tell that you teach the class- computer science, then I used to teach them the concepts.
Right. So what I understand is that you had a solid support from home.
Yes.
Which kind of helped you to kind of understand things in the classroom.
Exactly.
And since in school and in college, you had teachers who were receptive and sensitive and passionate, so they actually spent a lot of time...
...not sensitive in the beginning, I had to make them sensitive by my efforts, my hard work, my marks and all.
Got it. Now I also understand from what you shared with the you, during the pandemic, you've done a lot of online courses specially from foreign universities.
Yeah.
Can you tell us some of those courses and why did you do them?
As I told you earlier, when I was not getting any admission here in India for PhD, then I applied abroad. And I'm happy to tell you that I cleared my GRE, TOEFL and my subject GRE in within two months, all the three exams. Okay. And for that, also, I was denied coaching. The coaching people said that, like we don't add blind persons, we cannot do that. Then I said, okay, you don't admit, I will do it myself then I did it. And after that, I got a- during the pandemic- I got an offer letter from the HOD from the Director of the Case Western Reserve University.
Right.
But there due to pandemic- so they had an America First policy, so I didn't get funding. And that was a time when I was thinking, okay, like maybe I can do my PhD later, after becoming an IAS. Then I read about the syllabus of UPSC civil services examination, so it is diverse. From there. I was interested in diversity. And I had also a passion since childhood to read in a foreign university. And this combined made me do in so many courses in diverse areas like public health, and philosophy, Python learning. And, of course, Mathematics I am keenly interested in number theory. So I did a course and time number theory. That way, I also educated myself about the COVID-19 like how to take care because we have to be aware about everything and even about the pandemic too, so that we can take better care of ourselves. Now I'm planning to do courses in genetic and continue public health because public health and climate change, these are the need of the hour.
You went for a educational/cultural exchange program to Japan.
Yes.
Can you share your experience please?
Yeah, so it was indeed a wonderful experience. Surprising thing was that on the application form, there was no mention about the physical status or status of the person. But when I was selected, then I had to tell them, so these they said, okay then they were very happy. My father asked that she has never traveled alone. So let her sister also come with her, I will pay for her. Then the ambassador said that okay, let me think. Then, after some time, we got a call from there. They said, okay send her to Japan. And her sister is also allowed and no need to pay for her, the Japanese government will bear the cost. We were so delighted to see the courtesy of the Japanese government for the visually challenged Indians like me. And there, they made every effort to make everything accessible. I came in touch with the technology there. Homestay was also very good. In Japan, I did painting also, they made me do painting with the help of scribe, they assisted me like with my own hand. So this way I did painting and cooking also. So I did all kinds of activities.
How long were you in Japan/
10 days.
What was the agenda of this trip?
So it was a cultural and educational exchange program. So we came to know about the Japanese culture, the art, the dance, and Buddhism in Japan. We went to such places. And moreover, I like most the American Museum where I met Asimo the robot.
You being blind, did the Japanese who were hosting you in Japan for both the cultural and educational exchange- did they make any special arrangements for you or you had to depend entirely on your sister?
Even if I had not taken my sister, they would have taken care of me still. They made all the arrangements from papers in large font. There was a coordinator who was always with me, who used to assist me and describe the things which I wish were presented in the museum or in the science gallery, art Gallery and all.
Mathematics is your passion.
Yeah.
And you right now are kind of focused on becoming a civil servant. But as Mahenoor Ali, what are your personal interests?
Reading is my main passion. I like to read different things like in religion, philosophy, science, and varied. I like to read autobiography of the freedom fighters, the great leaders of India. And I also like to read about the great scientists of India and the world and so on. Like, this is what I like in reading. Moreover, I like to do new adventures. Three years back I did jet skiing in Andaman and Nicobar Islands. And I went in the submarine.
Where was that?
In Andaman and Nicobar Islands. So it was like, at that corner of the country I saw like, the different mindset. They didn't like forbid me. In IIT once I was forbidden to enter the gym because of my disability. They said No, you cannot do but there, they said you can do everything, any water sport you like and I was assisted and I did everything. Anywhere if I find something new and interesting, I would like to do it. Recently I did camel riding.
So what I understand from having this conversation with you is- moving on in life as a visually impaired person, it's very important to have the right mindset both you as a blind person and also for people around you. It's all about mindset.
It's all about mindset because a blind is not blind because he cannot see but he's blind because he's not getting proper accessible material. The infrastructure is not accessible. The blindness is due to that. Once that is sorted out then no issues.
Thank you very much Mahenoor for talking to us and wish you the very best.
Thank you so much Sir. Nice to talk to you.
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