I managed to make a friend in there and her husband was a retired fire chief. So he started writing with me. He said, You need to look deeper into this. He said a lot of what they said to convict you is no longer science. He said they're calling it false indicators or myths. And so I was like, Well, how can I be convicted on a myth?
Kristine bunch was incarcerated for more than 17 years after she was arrested and charged with setting a fire that claimed the life of her three year old son. She was convicted based on expert testimony that at the time, she had neither the expertise nor the resources to properly refute. All she could say was she didn't start that fire. This is random acts of knowledge presented by Heartland Community College. I'm your host, Steve fast. Today we're talking with Christine bunch, who discusses her long journey of wrongful conviction and incarceration and how she eventually gained her freedom.
My name is Christine bunch, and I'm an exonerees. from Indiana, I am a mother, I am a grandmother. And I am a fierce advocate for the innocent.
Well, I'd like to start in the kind of a painful place if you'll allow it in 1995, the home you were living in caught fire. And what followed was probably a parent's worst nightmare. I know this might be a difficult thing to recount. But this was the beginning of a very difficult path for your life. Can you tell us a little bit about what happened?
Sure. I mean, it's it's difficult to imagine, unless you're in that situation, when I first woke up, it was like I couldn't get my brain to accept to what was happening. And then when I realized my home was on fire, then it's like all that panic, and fear just sits on your chest while you go into overdrive. And I was trying to get out my three year old son, I couldn't get into his room because the flames were too high. So I ran outside to try to climb through his window. And when I busted out the window, the fire went out of control, neighbors pulled me out and kept me from running back in until firefighters got there to go in and get my son. At that time, I really thought that everything was going to be okay. You know, you don't think that in a moment life can be snuffed out, but I lost my son in that fire. And afterwards, they told me that the fire was an arson fire. It couldn't have been anything else. And five days later, I was arrested and charged with murder and arson for the death of my three year old son, Tony.
So in the midst of dealing with this, when they I assume started to question you right? In the midst of this trauma, what how did they treat you? What did they ask you?
Well, I mean, at first, it's, you know, basic questions like who could have come into your home and done this. So essentially, you know, all the people that were there supporting me and trying to help me through the trauma and the pain. Those were the people that I said, could have come in and done that. So I believe the police officers, and I believe that somebody intentionally did this thing to me and to my child. So I'm then looking at all the people that could be supporting me through this dark period, like they're suspects. That line of questioning really made me doubt everyone around me. It wasn't until later that they started talking to me about insurance.
And, you know, did I have life insurance? And did I have homeowners insurance. And at that point, I laughed at them. I was a single mom working, going to school trying to get a better life for my son. And half the time I couldn't afford the insurance on my car, let alone homeowners insurance. And I was only 21. My baby was three. You think life insurance is for old people not you know when you're that young? I think that's just because you don't think anything can happen to you.
What led the police to jump to that conclusion they did first that it was arson. And second that they turned the blame to you?
Arson investigators do not get a whole lot of training and certain remote rural areas. And so when they walked in, they looked at the patterns on the floor and said they were poor patterns or burn patterns. There were marks on the concrete. They called that concrete spalling. They said some of the wood had blistered, and they call that blistering or alligator ring. So they threw around a lot of technical terms and they said when they walk through this saw signs of arson. In the 90s. When this happened, that's pretty much how arson investigation was done. Nowadays, they know that those same elements that they talked about, also show up in electrical and accidental fires.
At the time, you mentioned that you didn't have a lot of resources as a young single mom, I would imagine that probably extended a bit towards having an attorney. So when they have these arson investigators come up with its determination. When you were accused, and were eventually charged and put on trial, what was your attorney like in trying to investigate this charge and maybe trying to defend you?
Well, I had a public defender, who had never really handled an arson or murder case before. And his first thought was to bring me a plea agreement, before he had ever actually met me. Once he met me and offered me this plea agreement, I pretty much threw it back in his face and said, I'm not taking a plea agreement of any kind, we're going to fight this. So that was the point that he realized, Oh, hey, I'm gonna have to get arson investigators on I'm gonna have to get some help. And a lot of people don't know that even though you have a public defender, you can get money from the court to hire experts to assist. The problem was, I was convicted with an altered report from the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms chemist. And so he testified that there was an accelerant found. And the the report that led ultimately, to my exoneration, there was no accelerant found.
When you were incarcerated. You also learned that you were pregnant. Can you talk us a little bit through the process of learning that and how that played out, as you were trying to basically argue for your own freedom? Oh,
I mean, finding out after I lost Tony, that I was pregnant was I mean, probably the the moment that my life was saved. I had literally built my whole life around Tony, I was, you know, proud to be a mom, I enjoyed having this, this wonderful little boy who taught me something new and wonderful every single day. So when I lost him, I really, I really didn't feel like I even wanted to live. And I certainly wasn't, you know, interested in fighting my case, and trying to prove that I was innocent. I mean, if I'd have fallen asleep and not woken up, I would have thought it's no big loss. So discovering that I was pregnant in the midst of all that the timing is absolutely horrible. But it also gave me the drive I needed to fight to prove that I was innocent to continue to, you know, move forward each day, he became my whole focus.
So at what point during the process was this 11 year pregnant? That was before trial before trial? And then how long did the trial take and when was your son born?
The trial took just a couple of weeks. And I was immediately moved to the Indiana women's prison, which is a maximum security facility. Because the jail wasn't built to have pregnant women in there, I couldn't get the medical attention that I needed. I was transferred to that facility. And two months later, my son was born.
And so at that point, what happens with a mother and a child? If the mother is incarcerated? How much time did you get with the child? What happened then? Where did the child go? That's got to be just a unbelievably heartbreaking experience to deal with that.
Yes, I received about 36 hours with Trent in the hospital. And then my brother, who was just a baby himself, he ended up taking my son along with my disabled mother. And my brother essentially, you know, stepped up and was there for my son raised him made sure he was there every week to visit me. And I was one of the more fortunate ones because a lot of people in that situation do not have family to take their child, otherwise their child could end up in foster care or adopted out. So I was very blessed to have a brother that stepped up for me and took over my child.
So at this point, once you were convicted, that must have felt kind of hopeless. How did you eventually li seek out to reopen the case to look more into these charges that you there were so called experts testifying on the cause of the fire. How did you get to the point where in prison you were able to build a life where you could seek out your exoneration,
the facility that I was in was very unique. So I was able to take vocational classes, college classes, I got my associate's and bachelor's degree from Ball State University while I was incarcerated, paralegal certification. I'm a licensed cosmetologist and I trained service dogs. So anything you wanted to do to better yourself, you could do it. My big goal was I needed that paralegal certification because I wanted to go in and start looking through my own case, the bulk of that meant that I was trying to read manuals on Arsen science. And they read about like, stereo instructions, I mean, it was really hard to wrap my mind around some of it. So a lot of it was tedious work that I would have to go through and look up the definitions of these big words that they were using, and try to figure out, okay, this is how, you know, they're putting things together. And then I managed to make a friend in there and her husband was a retired fire chief. So he started writing with me and explaining different terms that I just couldn't really wrap my mind around.
And then, you know, he said, You need to look deeper into this. He said, a lot of what they said to convict you, he said, is no longer science. He said, they're calling it false indicators or myths. And so I was like, Well, how can I be convicted on a myth. So you know, at that point, I'm writing attorneys, I can't afford a $25,000 retainer fee for an attorney. So I'm just hoping that somebody is going to hear my plea and say, Oh, my gosh, we can step up and help her. And that's, you know, hundreds of letters going out every month. Most people don't even respond to your letters, the innocence organizations that I wrote to, they wrote me back very nice letters and told me they didn't have the staff or the funds to take a case like mine, I was eventually able to get a public defender who took on my case, and I sent her out my state pay every month, which meant that she got about $30 a month, because I only got paid $1 per day per job in the prison.
So I worked three jobs, so I could send her money, and get somebody legally working on my case. It wasn't until I started finding out new information. And she did as well on new fire science, that we started reaching out to investigators, we got an investigator to give us 20 hours pro bono. And at that point, we knew that we needed more help. So a volunteer inside the facility reached out to the center on wrongful convictions at Northwestern University in Chicago. And at that time, they come in and they took over my case, that was in early 2007. And at that point, I've been in prison for 11 years.
So how important was access to education while you were incarcerated, and the education itself, in keeping your mind set up in feeling you could do something about this.
I mean, I think education is incredibly important. Most of the time, when I'm talking about prison conditions, and what's needed inside of prisons, I feel like I have a different platform because I was in there for 17 years, and I was innocent. But the people that are in there, you know most of them made a mistake that will absolutely never happen again. They're going to get out they're going to be part of our communities. And it just makes sense that we would offer them educational and vocational opportunities, so they can get out and change their life. I mean, that's what rehabilitation is supposed to be about.
And for some reason, within our prison system, we've lost that aspect of it. So for me, I mean, it kept me focused, it kept me out of trouble. It gave me an opportunity to do something so I didn't feel like I was just wasting that time. And now I'm I'm out and I'm connected with other exonerees and I'm so thankful that I had education in the situation that I was in, because so many of them couldn't even get into a GED program while they were in there and innocent. So It seems like we're really missing an opportunity to help these people.
Once you were able to retain the help of the attorney, and have the folks at Northwestern take on your case that led to in 2012, were you released or the what? What was the process? Then? At that point? I don't think you were fully exonerated, though, even when they agreed to reopen your case, correct?
That's correct. I came home August 22, of 2012, based on new fire science, and a Brady violation, which means they withheld something. And what they had withheld was the original report that said there was no accelerant found in my son's bedroom. The report used to convict me at trial said they had found an accelerant. So they reversed my conviction and remanded me for a new trial. I walked out of there, you know, planning on doing another trial, I was excited for it, because I felt like I'm finally going to get vindication, people are going to finally hear my truth. And see that, you know, this wasn't an intentional thing. This was an accident that tore my life apart. Instead, they waited until December 18 of 2012. And they dismissed all charges, and said they couldn't bring prosecution right then. And so at that point, you're officially exonerated. I didn't feel like I was officially exonerated. I hadn't gotten that day in court, I hadn't gotten to tell everybody what my truth was.
So that just kind of sat heavily on me. And I didn't really feel comfortable in my own skin. So I moved to Chicago because I wanted a fresh start. I wanted to be around people that didn't know me. And at that time, I started speaking for the Innocence Project, I'm on their speaker's bureau, I started talking about wrongful convictions. I worked on legislation and two other states and got that passed. And I was like, you know, I want to do these changes in my home, I want my home state to have these changes. So I came back home, I started a nonprofit Jay for Jay supports and helps other exonerees just because it's, it's hard when you get out trying to figure out, you know, what life looks like now.
And we started working on legislation at my state, it wasn't until 2019, that we got compensation passed in the state of Indiana. And when you apply for that, they go in and they review your case, and you have to be termed actually innocent, before you're eligible for the compensation. So I went through that process. And they termed that I was actually innocent. And I was granted compensation. So for me, that's the day that I was truly exonerated, that everybody in my home state knew that this was a tragic accident, and nothing criminal had happened.
So in all that time, though, it's certainly up ended your life for almost 20 years, including, I would assume your son couldn't see you every day could visit, I'm sure. But what was it like trying to reconnect with him on a daily basis when he was then a teenager? Almost probably.
Right? It was, I mean, it was very hard for both of us, because he felt like he almost had to regress. So he could relive things for me, and I could see it. And so he had all this pressure on him, to show me, you know, what I had missed. And I had all this pressure to make sure you know that I wasn't treating him like a baby, instead of the 16 year old or 17 year old young man he was. And so counseling was very necessary. The two of us did counseling together and just got to a point where we could say what we needed to say.
So for anybody that's coming out, and that's trying to connect with a child counseling is so important. I mean, it's important anyway, after you're exonerated, just because there's such a disconnect. It looks like you know, I was on vacation on Mars for 17 years. And then when you come back, you're trying to readjust today at daily living, and then you saw when a kid on top of it. And you know, there were some benefits. He was able to introduce me to Facebook and all these cool new things that I knew absolutely nothing about. But yeah, it was difficult and even now, today, it's still difficult. I'll never have that close relationship that I could have had growing up with him. But I'm thankful that I have a relationship period.
When you were released, what kind of resources were available to you? Did you receive any help to help you rebuild your life? Obviously, you said it took quite a while to actually be declared innocent. And in that time, what happens when just one day you can leave prison,
there are no resources, people that get out on parole or probation, are giving job assistance, housing assistance, bus passes, all of these classes, if they choose to take them, they have opportunities in place for them. But for somebody that's exonerated, they're not eligible for those programs, because they don't have a conviction. So there's literally nothing if I came out and didn't have family to take me in, I would have ended up in a homeless shelter.
So after 17 years being incarcerated, they just sort of let you out without even an apology. Really?
Yes, most people do not get an apology. I walked out of there wearing a dress and shoes that my family had brought up. And everything that was in my sack was my khaki prison uniform, and my white tennis shoes. That's it. That's what I walked home with.
So as you rebuilt your life outside of that world, and did get involved in being an advocate, what are some of the things that you see that you continue to work on and let people know about in the system? Obviously, you didn't have some of the resources that you may have needed to refute expert testimony that was wrong, you didn't have the same legal resources while you were on trial, what sort of things really are leading to other potential situations, not unlike yours, or other folks that just don't have the proper kind of resources as they are caught in the legal system?
I would say the things that I am most passionate about are, you know, in Illinois, but I've been part of the Illinois Innocence Projects, wrongful conviction awareness and avoidance training that takes place and the police academies. And so they have mandatory class on wrongful convictions. So they not only hear you know, what the best practices are, when they're getting ready to go out and look at a scene, but they get to hear from a real life person and see, you know, how doing their job the right way, can stop this from happening to an innocent person again. So I'm very passionate about that, very focused on that, I think, you know, we need to find ways that we can have open and honest dialogue, and really focus in on the places that we can make a difference with the in our system to ensure that wrongful convictions aren't happening.
And the second thing I'm very passionate about is public defenders, these people are overworked, they're underpaid, they do not have the same resources as the prosecutor. And so I feel like when somebody goes in there and they're indigent, the deck is already stacked against them. And it's important that we even that playing field, because no one should be going to prison, because they are too poor to get an adequate defense. That's just unconscionable to me. And third is women's wrongful convictions, because out of the 3000, and some that are in this country, only 286 of them are women. And the majority of those cases, no crime occurred. It was made to look like a crime. But instead it was a tragic accident like mine. So I think women are judged on a different level. And I think it's important that we keep bringing awareness to them.
Well, Christine, thanks so much for talking with us today and sharing your story. And we look forward to your visit to Harlem community college to participate on this panel and to hear you speak some more. So thank you so much for taking this time to do with us today.
Thank you so much. I'm honored you asked me I can't wait to visit the campus.
Exoneree Christine Bunch works with the Innocence Project and will be part of the event justice denied at Heartland Community College on Wednesday, November 8 2023. If you are interested in other interviews about the justice system, or other topics, subscribe to random acts of knowledge on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you found this one. Thanks for listening
