Biohacking, Mindset, Behaviour Change & More With Tony Wrighton!

9:34AM Nov 11, 2022

Speakers:

Angela Foster

Intro

Tony Wrighton

Keywords:

histamine intolerance

people

bit

day

thought

histamine

nlp

long

behaviour

sleep

interesting

angela

mould

podcast

wine

books

habit

talk

biohacking

tony

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One of the things that's really revolutionised my exercise is having a WhatsApp group with my wife, just writing the exact amount of minutes that we exercise for each day. And then adding up at the end of the month.

Welcome to the high performance health podcast with your host Angela Foster. The show where we talk about everything you need to break through limits and achieve a high performance mind body and lifestyle.

Hi, friends, welcome to you to a fun episode. Today I'm having a little chat with my friend Tony riton, who is a multiple best selling author. He's an NLP master. He's also the host of this astrology podcast. Fantastic podcast, by the way, if you haven't listened already, and I met up with him in London at 180 house, so her house and we had some lunch together. And we had a little bit of a kind of biohacking, I suppose, chat about what we've both been doing what we're into. And so you're going to hear about on this week's episode. But one of the things I was chatting about to Tony was how he'd given up alcohol back in June as a bit of an experiment and are still alcohol free at the time of this episode in mid November, and I didn't intend it to be that way. And it's actually really interesting. And we talk a bit about it on this episode. But I wanted to kind of just cover off some of the things that I have discovered on that journey of just breaking a habit of something that I loved. So I my husband and I have been longtime investors in wine. And we've been around, you know, beautiful vineyards and France and California and various places. And we it's kind of like a, I guess a romantic love of ours. And I wanted to do an experiment with behaviour change to figure out how difficult it would be to give out something that I enjoyed. That was social that I did with my husband, but something I did very moderately. So it was very easy to give up. In so far as I wasn't never really a big drinker. I was just bit of a fine wine drinker in moderation. And so I wanted to see how long would it take for something I enjoyed. And I sort of when I first approached this, I was thinking what could I give up that would meaningfully make a difference to me, and it was either wine or dark chocolate and I decided that the health benefits of dark chocolate, were superior to wine and therefore wine was the option. So I was sort of experimenting or how long would it take for me to stop being prompted by my brain that it was a good idea to have a nice chat with my husband over a glass of wine on a Saturday night for example. And as I say I've never really been a big drinker so it wasn't a kind of a big big deal as such, it was more than you know, it was a time for us to sit down, have a chat. And we did that a few times a week. And so how long would it take my brain to stop telling me that? And if we look at the research that's been done on this in terms of creating behaviour change, there was a study done by Philippa Lally, who's a health psychology researcher at the University College London. And she published a study in the European Journal of Social Psychology. And she was figuring out with her research team, how long it would take to form a habit. And in this study, they basically examined the habits of 96 people over a 12 week period. And every person within that group chose a new habit for the 12 weeks, and then they reported back each day on whether they did the behaviour and how automatic that behaviour was feeding. So it's slightly different to what I was doing because I was removing something, as opposed to putting something new in. But I'm going to come on to that in a moment, because there is slight nuance there. And what they found was that on average, it takes more than two months, before a new behaviour becomes automatic. And actually, to be exact, it was 66 days. So if you think we've got new year coming up, it's not that far away. Now, people often try to adopt new habits with their new resolutions in January. Even if you continue that, for the whole of January, it probably isn't going to lead to long term behaviour change. Now, how long it takes, according to this study can vary widely, but on average, it was around 66 days, but it could take anywhere from 18 days to 254 days for people to form a new habit. And that kind of helps them manage your expectation, because what you're really looking at there is anywhere from two to eight months, not the kind of 21 days that gets touted around. So mine was slightly different, because obviously I was removing something. But I wanted to kind of understand well, how long would it take for me not to have those prompts. And interestingly, it was around 53 Stroke 54 days for me. So that was quite interesting. But what happened kind of unconsciously, was that I over time once I'd set an initial target of 90 days, because I thought, Well, if the research shows 66 days, on average, I want to kind of far exceed that and see what happens. There were a few interesting things. First of all, I have unintentionally developed a habit now of not drinking, which has been quite interesting. And as you're here on my chat with Tony, it's kind of like now I've got a streak. Do I break it? Like I'm really not sure. So I'm kind of thinking, maybe I'll just do this for 12 months, and go through every season. And see, see what happens. So that's kind of where I'm at with that. Now, the day that I decided to do it, you might just think this is crazy was on the day of my daughter's school ball that I went to so a highly social occasion. I'm kind of a bit like that when I decide to do something. I'm just like, Yeah, let's do it now. But actually, on a on a on a more serious note, I think if you're going to do hard things, then let's do the hard stuff first. Right? So going out on a social evening when everyone else is drinking is probably more of a test for many people than than other times. So I thought right, well, I'll pick this night, and and go from there. So that was kind of how I started off. But what was interesting that I wanted to share is when you're removing something, you do need to replace it with something positive. And the science also shows that that wasn't something that I'd really thought through. Sorry, Mike was a little crackly that that wasn't something that I had really thought through at the time, I was aware actually that you should, you know, replace it with a good habit. But I hadn't really thought it through and determined what I was going to do instead. And what was really interesting was that initially, I started to replace it with work, it's very easy, isn't it, especially if you work from home to kind of just because I think the thing is if you if you stop a couple of times a week, and you kind of have a nice chat with your partner or your friend or something, and you pour a glass of wine, it kind of like just that small amount of wine helps you kind of just wind down. And it sort of creates a transition, if you like, into the evening and stopping working to a degree because you're unlikely to go back. I mean, some people do, I guess, but you're unlikely really to work again after that. So what happened with me was I actually kind of just started working quite a lot more. And that isn't the best really thing for your relationship with your partner, your family. So I became aware of that within a few weeks. And actually, we then replaced doing that with a few times a week we would go out for a walk together at sunset, which was really nice. Can't do that anymore in the midst of November because it's pitch black, but it was really, really beautiful thing to do so many sunsets. And so that's quite an interesting thing. What I would say is if you're going to take something away and maybe looking ahead to next year and thinking what can I change what new habits can I introduce what can I remove then replace it with something positive. Because the thing is if you create this vacuum, it's going to be replaced with something. That's just the way life works. So find something positive to put in its place. And for me that has been initially, sunset walks, more recently moved into reading and Carol mildy sounds like just go out with my slippers on Disney, or actually, you know, spending time with my kids and doing something. But anyway, you'll hear all about this, I need to start waffling on here. So you'll hear all about this on my chat with Tony, you're also going to hear all about histamine intolerance, because Tony is an expert. I like to think of histamine intolerance. He has really dived into the science of this over the last few years. He has a fantastic website and blog all about histamine intolerance. So if you're someone that's suffering with that, and it is a trigger point for many women around perimenopause, and definitely go and check that out. And yeah, without further delay, let me introduce you now to Tony writer.

Angela, we're recording. Go, how are you?

I'm really well, it's nice to be here. It's nice to meet in person is really

nice. Yeah. And you were just telling me before we started recording, you haven't drunk out because I was telling you, I had three cocktails here. Three tickets, and I feel great today. So that's good. What? Why don't you don't rageous?

Yeah, so I was saying that it was a bit of an experiment. I was looking at what can I give up that I'm attached to insofar as it held more of an experience, right. So now my husband and I have always kind of laid down wine invested in it visited vineyards. So there's a whole kind of romantic thing around it. I don't really drink anything other than wine. And so as an experiment to see whether this whole kind of 60 day 66 day rule around habit formation, I thought, I wonder how long it would take until it a weekend, I wouldn't think it'd be nice to relax together have a chat, wine. And so I was experimenting with that. And it's been quite interesting what's happened? Because I'd say that it was around 50 days. So I think when people look at and you'll know more about this from your NLP work, right, but when you look at giving something up, yeah, in the beginning, that reticular activation system at the back of the brain just keeps reminding you doesn't have something you used to do. So you've got to kind of like, put in effort effectively to overcome that. And then after, I'd say around 50 days, so maybe a month and a half or so, those reminders just stopped even a weekend, it just kind of fell away. So then it was like, Okay, this is weird. Now, it's not quite taken 66 days, I wonder what I'll do for here. And I set the initial goal of 90 days just to go well beyond the 66 thinking it might take longer, and some people etc. And so then it just got like easier and easier. And then I got I just got really even more into exercise. And like the fresh feeling of like weekend's waking up really early at weekends being really consistent with my sleep schedule, which if you have a few drinks, it's much harder to

consistently Yeah, it's all your willpower goes out the window exactly. To one o'clock in the morning, because I can,

exactly and then I'm gonna sleep in a little bit, or you feel dreadful if you get up at your usual time. Yeah, so that got really like positively addicted, there are a few things along the way that we can talk about that had to change, because I did develop some bad habits. And then basically now, I don't know what to do, because I've kind of gone, I don't know, 120 days or so. Yeah. And I've sort of developed this streak, which is a bit weird of not drinking. But I don't want to, I don't necessarily see myself as a non drinker. But I'm not sure I want to break the streak, if you see what I mean. So it's become a bit weird.

I'm really pleased. You mentioned that because, um, you know, I told you, I'm writing these books at the moment. And they're all based around NLP principles, but also habit forming and persuasion principles. Because ultimately, the the goal is that people read these books, and they actually end up, you know, changing stuff. And one of the days that I've written is all about streaks, because people place massive importance on streets. I don't know if you've heard of the 75, hard challenge. Have you heard of that one? Yes, it might be based on the similar sort of things, what you've been doing with the 66 days 75 Hard is you got to do all these sort of different things. It's not based in science at all, you got to do all these different things at once. And if you mess up a day, you got to start from day one again. And actually, the habit forming science with suggests that's not a very good way to do a challenge. Because what's more important is resilience. And you and I've been having a little chat about addiction just before we started, and it's especially important in addiction because the recovery from addiction or any sort of habit forming is is never really that linear. You know, you're going to have a day where you either know you're up at three o'clock in the morning because he got dropped your son at Heathrow and you're knackered and you have a glass of wine and it just happens sometimes. And what's more important is that the next day you wake up and you don't say I Oh, I messed it up now. Yeah. So I think resilience is a lot more. And of course, what most people do with the 75 hard challenges, they either some of them who've got the willpower, like you finish it, but a lot of others lapse on day 14, because life has gotten in the way, and they haven't had the time to do it, and they don't bother starting again. So I think, you know, being kind to yourself and being resilient. And remembering that it's not, you know, habit forming isn't linear is more important.

Yeah, I agree with that. It's interesting. You say that, because I think you see that a lot. When we look at alcohol withdrawal January, and people just white knuckle it for 30 days, but it's never changed behaviour. Yeah. So yeah, so it did change behaviour, but inadvertently because I was like, Well, my plan wasn't to become a non drinker. And we were talking about books, why aren't we? So I also, like I've been reading

rather than in the end. Wow, why not come back?

Relevant? Yeah. Normally, I

asked what is one book that you'd recommend doing now?

Let's do it now. Yeah. So Ryan holidays, latest book, discipline is destiny. Okay, that was really interesting for me, because in there, he talks about abstinence. It's not like addiction, but it's almost kind of down the same thing, right? Because it is easier. 100 person is easier than 90%. Yeah. Which in many respects can be a good thing. But he talks about this concept, this stoic concept of temperance. And I actually think that's more valuable than life. So in reality, I mean, I'd say, I never gave up alcohol, because I have a problem with alcohol. So maybe that's a slightly different, you know, to me, because how could you practice temperance? If you did? That might be a bit harder? Yeah, for sure. Whereas for me, it was just this experiment, what would happen like for how long would my brain take before it stopped reminding me and it just became a natural, new behaviour. But now it has become a natural new behaviour. And thinking, yeah, where do I end? How do I give up that streak? Because as you say, that feels like, I'm not sure I want to miss my birthday coming up. Yeah, would be a time when usually I would have a glass of something to celebrate. And I'm thinking, I don't know if I want to break my streak. So sort of it were just sort of,

it'll be interesting, because you could break it very mindfully, and just have a lovely glass of expensive wine. Yeah. And to see how you feel I could?

Actually, that's like, a very nice way. Yeah, you're really involved with something very enjoyable.

So and I think the Temperance thing you're talking about, it's very interesting, because I see quite a few similarities between you and I, in terms of I think you're quite type A personality, you're quite driven. You know, you're obviously building is incredible business and doing so well. And I'm the same and actually, you know, for me, biohacking is often based around doing less switching off a bit relaxing, because that is probably the most important thing for my health. I think.

For me, yeah. And the bit that I find the hardest. So it's

actually, I'm not good at just sort of saying, oh, yeah, alright, I'll have a glass of wine tonight.

Yeah. Are you good at disciplining yourself to recover because like, for example, if you gave me the choice to do a workout or yoga, I'm gonna pick the workout every single time, I would actually have to discipline myself to do something easier. So I'm kind of struggling with that now. So then I've been doing a lot of research recently, into sort of flow states and creativity and concepts of having the struggle. And then the sort of allowance if you like, before you enter flow, and then the recovery cycle that comes after it. And it's definitely for me, I'd say in terms of biohacking. It's the recovery that I'm really trying to prioritise. Now. Because I have to, I think, I think part of it is having three kids, two dogs a business, you know, it kind of is all go go go all the time. Yeah, but I need to learn that in

so with the flow states, are you using them with your gut? You did the research, does that go into what you do with your clients and your group as well?

Yeah, exactly. So it's kind of a core concept, when I talk about this concept of bias thinking is to be able to sync with your goals. But also when we look at rhythms, obviously, we look at the female menstrual cycle. But then what about also ultradian rhythms? So we know like, what happens in sleep is kind of mirrored by the brain during the day. So there's these 90 to 110 minute approximately cycles? How can we optimise them in a day and what's interesting is if you're not getting enough deep sleep, actually, it becomes much harder to get into flow and optimise those rhythms in the day so that you have a knock on effect,

right? Yeah. The old trading rhythms. I've got very into listening to Andrew Huberman work. He's great, isn't it? Yes. And I've been listening to his one on focus. And I thought was really interesting because I was telling you before and writing these books at the moment, and it's, I find my limit for work is two hours a day of really deep work. Lots of work through the day but the real deep work, and it's incredible how much I get done in those two hours, but that might sound bites Such a small amount of time to most people what you're writing about, you're only doing two hours a day. Yeah. And I get a lot done in those two hours, but my brain can't handle any more. Yeah. And actually, he talks about that as well with these ultradian rhythms. So what are they exactly?

These are just rhythms that happen during the day that are around approximate 90 minutes. And so if you time because I was I was gonna ask you, if you're looking at two hours, do you break that up? Or can you go straight for two hours? I break it up. You didn't even two hours on its own? I was gonna say, Yeah, seems too long. Yeah. How would you break that up then.

So what I do is on. And I've developed quite a nice system. For it, I I've looked into all the apps, there's some great apps like screen Zen and forest, if you had a forest, this is what all the kids are using your kids won't be doing it in a couple of years, when they're sort of doing GCSEs and a levels. You click a button, and it grows a tree on an app on your phone. And if you leave the app to go and do anything else, for the next hour, the tree withers and dies. Oh, that's

Wow, that would keep me going. Yeah,

so it's not that. But what I found works well is starting a timer. I use Trello for myself to do less than organising starting a timer on there when I'm doing deep work, and then stopping it the moment I come out of the work, and then just making myself stop. And then over the course of the day, as long as that deep work counter has gone over two hours. That's

good. Okay, so then you'll take a small break and come back to

I just depends, I mean, look, you know, came to meet you here at 12. Today, and some unexpected childcare this morning. So did half an hour's riding on the tube.

Okay, really deep work, as well. You can do it anywhere when you can get in. Yeah. And then

click the timer off when you arrived, and then clicking on again later on. Yeah, yeah, wherever, whenever. You have to be a bit flexible when you've got lots of things going on in your day. But I'm just so fascinated by this ultradian cycles thing, it's just not possible to do that level, that quality of work when he goes so deeply. But what I wanted to ask you about is you said before we started that we might get a chance to chat about histamine and histamine intolerance. And obviously, this is my side project, people have listened to this podcast on my podcast and known that, you know, sort of bang on about histamine all the time. And I've been looking recently into supplementary ways to just reduce that real type a sort of stimulated energy based on genes. And it's all quite complicated and it's way above my paygrade.

Fast is interesting. Yeah, I was it's kind of too Well, geez, type energy

to reduce type energy. Yeah, exactly. Because, you know, a lot of people with histamine intolerance do have very type A personality for various reasons that their whole sort of stimulatory, their whole nervous system is set on high all the time, and what they need to do to sort of calm it down. When you have a look at the genes. There's one gene called dao dao, which is particularly important with histamine. There's another one called Mao, Mao, there's Mao a and Mao be known as the warrior gene, as in fighter, but also anxious, that would describe me, but I mean, not not a fighter, but just, you know, so type A personality. Yeah, and that is something that's really important in the histamine and histidine pathway. And my Mougins don't work very well. So I've been looking at taking a lot of riboflavin over the last few days B, vitamin B to okay, this is something new, so like, this is not medical advice. Let's put it that way. I mean, not feeling great, you know, because the whole idea is that it if you don't have enough mal gene energy, you're not processing dopamine and other Amiens in the body serotonin in the stomach, and therefore, your hormones just wildly out of control and you just over dopamine all the time. So by having enough riboflavin you can reduce some of that energy and get the histamine pathways working. Right. That's what I'm working on. That's

very interesting. Yeah. So you with this, you're prone more to anxiety.

Oh, I mean, yeah, yeah, I so but also just prone to being a real high achiever. So a lot of people, a lot of people who have a compromised MT a or Mao B pathway tend to be high achievers, because their dopamine their serotonin is just going to absolute overdrive and their Amiens in the gut aren't being processed sufficiently to one so do you know what next time you see me? I'll probably be living on a beach and I won't be writing any more books and I won't be recording podcasts. I don't mean what I mean, so I'll have a nice healthy balance.

Just be chilling out. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm curious like because my listen to be very interested in this. What are the symptoms that you had that led you to understand you had histamine intolerance?

Oh, I mean, it was like a lifelong journey. Really. That's why I do this podcasts the only sort of ill for so long and didn't really know how to big crash like you as well, but mainly just unexplained gut symptoms. And the whole thing about histamine intolerance is it's so random, you know, avocados are bad, but celery is good. Try explaining that, you know, I mean, it's just it's just so hard. And I just found that like, one day, I'd be absolutely fine. The next day I wasn't, and there was no rhyme or reason to it. And histamine intolerance was the bottom last thing on the list after trying everything. Yeah, cuz it was so confusing. I couldn't work it out. Eventually try that and start to feel better within about three hours than the lowest meat diet. Oh, my God. Yeah,

like so quick. Wow. Yeah. And did it affect cognition quite significantly? Absolutely. And

it still does. I mean, again, here we talk about linear recoveries, I still get crashes. The day before the day we went to Glastonbury this summer, actually, I had a real flare up and I just couldn't think straight couldn't drive better to drive us down to Glastonbury to lay in the back of the car. I managed to get over with a load of charcoal tablets and, you know, some good company for a few days. But it really does affect cognition. Yeah.

Do you have like really bad brain fog?

It's more than that. It's like talk about the the gut brain connection is a real depression literally.

Is it really depressed? That's hard? Yeah. Someone who struggled with it. That is really tough.

Yeah, have you? Yeah. Depression is a bit strong, actually just feeling really low. Not depression, just very low. Gutted that I've been trying to figure this out for so long, and I've had a lapse

Yeah, that's hard. Ya know.

And working with good practitioners who understand this stuff is so important. And histamine intolerance practitioners are few and far between

very few of them. It's such a specialist area. That's the thing. Yeah. There's probably lots of people that have it. Right. That don't really realise. Yeah, in all honesty,

and my practitioner, you know, she's one of the best, Caroline Sherlock she's called. And it still it's taken us quite a long time to unravel it all and figure it all out. You know?

So now if you get an attack like that, and it comes on, ya know, what triggered it because you're so good, aren't you with you're

not on? Monday, it was Monday, I felt a bit dodgy and I wasn't quite sure why. And faith was like, Yeah, but you did go out on the weekend. And oh, that's right. I was in Valencia last week. And my friend as a mouldy flat. I could smell it. And one of the things I used to be sorrows is your your, your sense of smell is just massively switched on.

I've got a really, yeah, like, annoyingly,

I can smell gas, or I can smell mould, and other people won't even notice it. And I could smell the moment I walked in his flowers like smells as damp in me. So I slept with all windows and the doors open. But you know, I felt really groggy after day three.

Yeah, I can imagine that would it? Well, we had an interesting experience with mould what we think is mould and house. Basically, my son so he was my middle one was born on like the 98th percentile. So he was destined to be pretty tall. And then when he by the time he was three, he had has so many infections, they removed his tonsils. Then they were lucky his adenoids. They said they're small, he couldn't breathe through his nose. And there was a pipe outside. We couldn't see anything on the inside of the house. But it was the house on clay at the bottom of on the back of the golf course came down the hill. And there was a very elderly couple next door had a well had a well, and they were not taking care of any kept overflowing and then flooding into the garden. Making our house yeah, sure and wetter, right. And just at the time after it was actually after we agreed on the sale. I remember seeing a small amount of more than I was like, that's weird. We've never had more than this property before. Anyway, we moved and and basically, we got into a new house. And within three to four weeks, he literally just slept and slept and slept completely could breathe through his nose, no problems at all, because they talked about doing surgery to open up his areas. And I was like no more surgery. Surely this will correct the growth because they said his adenoids are fine, but actually his tubes are really small. He wasn't he'd been like moved down from the 18 to the B team because he wasn't big enough like when he was playing and rugby and things anyway, within about him. He killed me a few years we talking about. within about three or four weeks he suddenly breathing through his nose. Completely fine. sleeping, sleeping, sleeping. Oh my god, did he grow? Really went from he dropped to like the 75th percentile. He's now back up at the 98 super tall. It was nothing short of extraordinary. Wow. And I think that's where in that house. You know, I had bronchitis pneumonia. I was hospitalised with pneumonia last year and we just didn't know at the time.

Shocking, isn't it the impact it has? For some people. Beth O'Hara is a brilliant histamine expert and mast cell and histamine. She's very strong on and I've interviewed her a couple of times on this podcast and she says that her husband goes mad because when they go to hotel rooms she can instantly walk in and she's so finely tuned to I mean, she's had real issues with histamine in the past, and still does. But she can tell instantly if it's on where she's gonna be able to stay in or not. And if not, she'll just walk straight out is not just mould is perfumed like detergents, floor cleaners. And I feel the same as well, if I'm standing possible, it's got really strong perfume now, for I don't really like it, you know, or like, strong floor cleaner, or like dettol or something like that. I really like it. You can sense desktop. Yes. Well, I mean, obviously, everyone could smell better. But you but I just don't like, but the model that is fascinating.

Yeah. It's really interesting. What happened? Yeah, just to see the difference and how much like the classic medical professionals were looking at. You know, it must be this must be this. Yeah. But we didn't have any idea. It didn't. As I say it wasn't showing you signs. You couldn't smell it. It's not like there was mould in the bathrooms or anything. Yeah. But we could see that over time. There was a degree of flooding in the garden, I think where the house the property wasn't was on clay. It just wasn't draining. And this had affected him and me, but not everyone's affected. The family. Okay. Yeah. So that's what makes it so weird. And I think that's what often makes these things really hard to diagnose, as well.

Well, yeah. And you know what I've spoken before, we've got a lovely shed at the end of our garden, which has been converted into a home office. And every time I sit in there, I feel literally every time and it doesn't happen instantly. It happens the next day. So it took me a while to work out. My wife. She's in there right now working. She's fine. So yeah,

and there's not there's not mould in that. Oh, I think you think there is

yeah, we it was built before we moved in. I know it's hollow underneath because there used to be foxes in there until we managed to get them out and lock it up. So it's hollow underneath. I think it gets damp in winter. And there's just a load of standing water in there. And then he put the heater on, it just heats up all this mouldy, dank, sort of air. And it's not very nice. We tried out us have used altos. This is a gadget that you're a bit of tech that you can get out and it measures air quality.

Oh, no, I have in fact, I was sent one. Yeah. And I did it in the I did it, in fact, in a tube here in London or something like this few years ago. Yeah. And it literally went on red alert, did it? Yeah. Whereas it was on the central line. The other lines were actually clean. Because I was surprised initially, yeah. How clean the air seemed to be on the tube in London, until I was on the central line. And then it just this thing and everyone was like looking it was like going off sounding an alarm.

Right? Yeah, no, that's Yeah. And it doesn't measure load. Because obviously we can talk about more but it measures co2 quality, also measures temperature, sound, decibels, and something else. But what I think is really interesting about the the air quality is you know, co2 is sort of, it's proven that if your co2 levels get really low, which is obviously what you fell in central line, then your cognition isn't as good your brain doesn't work as well, you've got start to get really sleepy. And I too have measured it all over the place nor the tube and I've sort of found middling results. The worst place I've ever found using it by a long way. Is this office.

Seriously? Yeah, we are now yeah, it's because it's all because it's aircon. Right. It's not.

It's interesting. It's an old 70s building. It's been refurbished. I wonder if that's got something to do. It's quite old. If aircon the windows don't actually open. And I mean, I feel great here. I never felt I never feel tired. I work really well here. But it's always on about two out of 10

Interesting. Yeah, I am. I must say I'm a big proponent of like, open Windows. On Windows. Yeah, I just love like, cool. Yeah, through as much as I can. Do you do that at

night as well? Quite often. Yeah. And what are the sort of obviously so you work one on one with clients? And it really was podcast together by the way, sort of interviewed us? Excuse me, sorry. That's that I sort of got that you're interviewing me as well. Come on. ask me some questions.

I want to ask you some questions. So I want to come to the books but I guess I always like asking you what fun new kind of biohacking either technology or supplements you're playing because every time I speak to you're doing something new, most curious. Yeah.

Well it's funny, obviously, the be to the robber fleet. Yes, the one that I've been saying within the last couple of weeks and I'm really excited by but then it's interesting that you mentioned since I got the outdoors and I started thinking a bit more about air quality. I have been sleeping with a window open at night. Free biohack is hardly groundbreaking is it but I just sleep so much better. And then in terms of the habit forming, you know, in terms of starting new habits that stick I thought about it so much and James Claire's book is a great one to read out. That's very good. Yeah. And then another person who's brilliant is Robert Cialdini, who, who's written these books around persuasion. And he's got the six laws of persuasion. And one of them is just commitment. The more that you've got a public commitment to doing something, the more likely you are to do it. And I know I feel better when I exercise a lot you mentioned earlier, I always do. So one of the things that's really revolutionised, my exercise is having a WhatsApp group with my wife and just writing the exact amount of minutes that we're excited for each day in it. And then adding up at the end of the month.

Almost choose your accountability, partner,

accountability, buddy, but it does two things. Firstly, keeps me accountable. Secondly, I'm very competitive. We've already spoken about the type name I want to beat last month.

I want to beat my wife. Yeah. Yeah. Very competitive. It's quite funny. Yeah.

So we have one for meditation. And we have one for exercise. And it just genuinely gives me so accountable. It's like a separate Whatsapp group. And we just write in our minutes there each day.

And it's the number of minutes as opposed to the frequency. So you could do a really long workout and make up some extra minutes or just frequency apply when you're measuring this as

well. No. She measures frequency as well. So she, but I don't 29 days out. I

just did a six hour hike. And oh, yeah, because I did

two minutes. I did the three peaks Yorkshire challenge in May, which was by the way, like the best amazing, it was so good. And I said to fake doctors, I was like, Am I allowed to put in 10 hours here? And she was like, Yeah, sure. So my scores were seriously ima. Yeah. Yeah. So I really liked that. And I, you know, put so much time into thinking around behavioural science. And because all of this stuff is there's all sorts of scientific studies that prove that this stuff works, commitment, accountability. And, you know, James, what I like about James clear is that he references a lot of science in his books as well. And I think that's definitely the way to go. You know, and one of the things about NLP is, it's brilliant to be able to use NLP in conjunction with studies to show that it works.

Yeah, yeah. When you got the science to back it up. Yeah. How would you when you're looking at NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming, because it really helps to change your beliefs, right. And your view of the world? How would you say it differs from something like CBT? I remember doing a lot of CBT when I was struggling with depression, yeah. And trying to change my thought patterns and analyse like, were they really true? What could the alternative be? What would you say is like the critical difference?

Firstly, I don't really know that much about CBT. So it's quite difficult to answer that question. But one of the interesting things around CBT is that it is mainly a therapy. Whereas NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming is used in all sorts of areas. It's used in communication, sales. Sports Psychology, therapy, as well, not in sales actually use a lot in sales. Yeah, I mean, link, the linguistics part of it is fantastic. I absolutely love it. And delighted to tell you about when I first started learning NLP. And I was a radio presenter. And I knew very little about the techniques. But the person who was teaching me said, look, the really important thing is to practice these techniques as much as possible practice, practice, practice. So I thought, well, I've got the perfect place to trial try on my radio show. And I just used all these techniques. As much as possible. I was going out about a five month course. And I was learning all these techniques. And I was going to my radio show the next day, just layering it all on and not doing a very good job. Then the boss called me into his office one day. And I thought he'd rumbled me for you notice that I've used some sort of complex equivalence on my show. And he said, Tony, I don't know what you've done, but your listening figures have gone through the roof. It was it was incredible. And you know, I wasn't

actually doing that what was different? were you teaching it or what was different,

I was using techniques to make people feel better about listening, to listen for longer, and to attract new listeners to the podcast as well. So I was using all sorts of sensory language techniques and presuppositions and the all the various persuasive techniques that you can use in terms of NLP and I was trying everything really. But even just the sensory language stuff is just so effective. And I ended up having more listeners than the breakfast show. I was on the drivetime show. Yes, amazing. So I can remember the original

question. Well, I was just looking at Yeah, like things like the difference between NOP but you're right, it goes a lot. I mean, you're the expert in it, but it goes a lot broader. It's definitely something I want to kind of Is it achievable? Yeah, I think yeah, I think so. Because I think when you start to like realise how much you can to be able to influence other people. Right? You need to be able to influence yourself first, I think. Yeah. And that was something that I sort of really focused on to influence my own thoughts initially. Yes. Isn't it fascinating looking at all like Tony Robbins work as well.

Tony Robbins is like, is very NLP based. And in fact, he learned NLP. Yeah, who invented it as to die. But the one thing I mean, I don't want to put you off learning NLP because I think you should, but I sort of feel like it's, it's, it's a great it's not the only thing you want to do with people, and therefore it would be a nice complement to everything else you do. But it doesn't have to be the only thing and for anyone, I would say like, you know, I sort of have trained to the highest level in NLP, but it's not the only thing I use. And I've trained in EFT as well on mine faculty coaching, but also just the biohacking stuff. It all works really nicely together. Rather than just focusing on

it. Yeah, because it's kind of Mind Body Spirit optimization is sort of thing. So something I'm about to try to tell you. Yeah. Have you tried C 60. I'm trying the ESS 60. Now, so here we go. So the C 60. has had studies where it's improved life expectancy in rats by 90%. Gary, human.

Agencies 250 560. Perfect.

Yeah, well, I've just done a podcast actually, it's not a not out yet all about this. And my first question was, how can you persuade me that actually, I would want to live that long? Because at the moment, none of it looks very attractive? Do you know to mean, if you look at ultimately, I think no matter how long you live, there seems to be a very small section of the population, who literally live super well into old age, go to sleep one night, and don't make it Yeah, that would be amazing. Yeah. Usually, however long really, we I feel like we're postponing disease. But ultimately, it comes at some point. And I'm not sure I want to be super old. So that's never really been a thing for me. So when I when I was talking to him about it, it was like, how can you persuade me, you know that this would be necessarily a really good thing. But apparently, there are also lots of benefits with it. I'm just about to start the experiments worth doing. Around sleep as well, the only thing you can take in the morning, that will actually then improve your sleep substantially at night. So it's quite interesting. And Ess 60 is the form that is suitable for for humans. So it's a fullerene. But this is gonna go some history that I don't know about. I don't know the technicalities. So it's known as a fullerene. And I think for has to do with carbon. But it's just been, I think a lot of people were taking it when they shouldn't have been initially because it wasn't in a human consumption form. And the E S S 60 is so this has just arrived for me now for me to experiment, but it sounds quite so

my natural disposition is going to be sceptical until I've done it sounds quite salesy. Hey, it's gonna, you know, Buckley, but if actual studies show that it's increased life expectancy in rats by 90%, that's worth further investigation. Are you in the process? shorten your life?

Exactly what it's been like looking at spermidine? Right. I haven't gone down that road yet. But then I was when I was reasonably, that whole hair thing was appealing to me, as well. And skin and all those benefits in addition to longevity, you've tried it?

Yeah. And they're one of my partners at the moment on the podcast. I mean, it's really good spermidine life, got us use the code, Tony 20 to get 20% off. It's really good for longevity as the science shows, but the immediate sort of life giving effects of better skin health and nails as well is significant.

Is that what you said? What did you notice when you started?

I listen, I had sort of, I don't pay quite as much attention to the quality of my skill is my wife. So she really she taking? Okay, yeah, she thinks it's great. And I do as well. But she's as big if not a bigger fan than me. I really like it for sleeping definitely noticed a difference in my sleep. And that's one of the really interesting things that I've spoken about in this podcast, the science around sleep, and spermidine is way more limited. But it's because it's so emerging. This yummy. There's loads of science around spermidine. But the science around sleep and spermidine. There's not that much. There's a study on flies, and a study on cover of animal studies. But anecdotally, everyone's saying, Hi, this spermidine And then I sleep really well. So it's one of those ones where you say, oh, actually there isn't the science on that one, but people sleep better. So and I'm still doing my research on it as well. I mean, it's like I just spoke to one of the guys from spermidine life a couple of weeks ago and it's such an emerging area. But still with enough science, I think to make it worthwhile giving a go to so

yeah, well, it's one of the things I think Sandra Kaufman was mentioning Then how California protocols longevity as well. You interviewed, looking? No, but that's something that someone I do have you introduced? Oh, that would be amazing. Yeah.

Should we wrap this up and go and get a better lunch? Let's go and get I'm sorry that I basically

interview you more than your interview. We can do another one on Zoom, and I can enter,

what we'll do is, oh, yeah, we can do that as well. We could do it. But well, actually, or we'll meet here again, and then we're gonna have a cocktail afterwards, the cover the first 20 days, break it. I've got a question that I always asked, you always ask people. But if you want to make it a joint podcast, you can ask me the same question afterwards. Okay, so the question is, you've already answered the book question. But what is one tip for living with more energy and vitality,

to live in alignment, that's the thing I practice every day, okay. And I actually give myself a score at the end of it. So I think when you really know what you want to do, and you're super clear on your goals, and you know what your values are, so like, family is a big one for me, and making a difference in the world. So it's like, are those two things lining up? Because often you can sacrifice one and develop the other. So at the end of the day, I give myself an alignment, score an honest one out of 10 and say, did I live in alignment today? If I can score highly on a daily basis, and I feel each day I'm heading in the right direction.

You're so like me? To most people that will be like, Oh, my God, she gives? Great, yeah, brilliant. Yeah,

they probably think I'm crazy now, but I do anyway, is something don't worry about it. Maybe other people will maybe it was your favourite. But then Tony,

my favourite book. I love Josh Waitzkin is the art of learning, which is excellent. Yeah. And he he was a, you know, six year old chess prodigy and then became a Tai Chi taekwondo expert, as an adult as well. And it's all about the similarities between learning to play chess at the top level, and Taekwondo and doing anything. Yeah, I love it. And then one of the things I've been looking at recently is about interview Matt Walker. And he said, our like, you know, the sleep you get early in the evening is better quality than sleep later in the evening. So just going to bed a bit earlier, especially when you've got three year old who likes to wake up in the middle of the night really makes a massive difference. So last, so that's just something I'm working on, like a regular 1010 o'clock 10 past 10 bedtime. It feels so lame when you've watched 20 minutes of a film, and then he goes, it's bedtime. But you know, seems to work.

I think I've been actually trying to nudge my teenage children a little bit. There's always that friction, right in the teenage years, because they naturally want to do it later. Yeah. So we've been kind of working on that. And I think I'm actually funnily enough making a little bit of progress. Really, because that's the biggest thing is, you know, you hit that point, where do you really want them to be up there not an age where you want them to be beyond you? Because if I could, I'd get better half past nine. That's actually a little bit early for a teenage boy. Yeah, yeah. So So you know, you have to? Yeah, and so I don't actually we I tend to for me, it's about 1010 30. But I would I'm such an early riser. I'm constantly I would say in a little bit of a sleep deficit, which I don't want to be right. So well, I don't feel honestly deficit. But you wake up, you're probably out. Yeah, wake up probably about a quarter to five and say, Would you like to see more. I probably would like sleep about another half an hour, I'd say.

Look into histamine. Histamine levels, the highest early in the morning. Interesting. they fluctuate. That's why it's really hard to test with histamine. Like you can go and get tests that measure the histamine in your body. But your histamine levels fluctuate from day to day, from week to week, certainly throughout your cycle, it'll be different to your cycle. There'll be higher in the early morning, and they will be in the afternoon. There'll be higher if you had a banana the night before, compared to if you had an apple. There's so many things that really it's just very hard to test the histamine intolerance. But you know, one of the things is different time of day is massive. And I often wake up with the blocks up and those are five o'clock in the morning. I won't have one at five o'clock in the afternoon. That's really interesting. Oh, no more to explore. So thank you for letting me interview.

I think I have asked you if you I think it's more of a chat. I think we've turned around I think it's been a bit

more do you know if you want I can edit it. So that the bits of you asking me questions, is that the front of your interview?

was very clever. Yeah. Is that you? That's gonna do that. Oh,

well, I've got an editor, but I can do it. I worked in radio for 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks for doing this. And what's your website? Again?

My website? Yeah, Angela foster performance.

Yeah, I was on it just before you arrived. Yeah, it's really just researching me. Yeah, just so so good. Everything you're doing honestly and like I know you've got the this group The way you work with people, obviously, we're one on one, but you work with people on

the group is very much one on one I take, like very few clients. So I don't do much of that I tend to work in groups. Now. Yeah, it's my thing is kind of coaching chaining people to coach my methodology in terms of thinking, which is new, which is cool.

It's really cool. I think a 10 book series on bio syncing is the way forward. I think it should be. I'll be the one to help me do it.

Thank you. Can people find more about you? Oh, yeah. It's an amazing,

yes. Tony writer.com. And also histamine, intolerance.net, which is my side project. But it's just growing. So quick side project. Yes. I mean, it's not like, I don't have aspirations doing the world's top histamine expert. It's just a side project. But it's really fun. I'm a journalist, and I'm really interested interested in health. And it's a it's a good way of combining those two passions with something that definitely impacts me. Because when I think of something like, Do you know what I could take some vitamin B to and that might help? I put on an Instagram and 12,000 people give me responses. You know, from a purely selfish perspective, that's

great. So yes, amazing. Yeah. Amazing. All right, well

wrap it up. Lovely to see you and we'll record against

thanks for listening. Remember to review and subscribe, you can grab the show notes, the resources and highlights of everything Angela mentioned over at Angela Foster performance.com. You can also snatch up plenty of other goodies, including the highly helpful Angela recommends page which is a list of everything she personally recommends to optimise your mind, body and lifestyle.