Adrienne Dawes - Episode 45 of The Changed Podcast
8:26PM Aug 26, 2021
My guest today is a playwright, producer and teaching artists from Austin, Texas who is currently completing a graduate fellowship University of Arkansas in Fayetteville. My guest is Adrienne Dawes. I'm Aden Nepom. And this is The Changed Podcast.
Adrienne, welcome to The Changed Podcast. Thank you for being here.
Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.
How are things going in your graduate studies? Yeah, that's a lot to be doing.
It's Yeah. And so I've now been in zoom grad school longer than I've been in in person. grad school. So it's been wild. It's definitely it's definitely been different than I could have ever imagined. Yeah, it's going well, I mean, I get to just, you know, write plays, and, you know, have a backyard. So those parts of it are really good, yeah.
Now those who know you, mostly folks in the Austin, Texas, theater, and theater patron community know you as a playwright already, you've got several amazingly successful plays under your belt, and what inspired you to go to grad school.
You know, it's something this is my third time applying. So. And this is funny, because I was like, after the third application, if I don't get it, and I'm just not going to go, it's probably just not in the in the stars for me. But I've been interested in teaching. It's just always something you kind of want, it's I think it's like grass is greener, like, if you don't have the MFA, you're constantly wondering, would my career look different? Would I have more opportunity if I had it? And I think once you have that, you're like, I didn't need to do this. Why did I put myself through this? So I'm on the other side now tear to tell you that you probably don't need this degree. Maybe if you want to teach or maybe if your undergrad was in a totally different area of the arts, or maybe not even the arts, I could see that. But yeah, it's a very weird experience. But I think what makes it nice is that I'm with really cool people. So I think if you find the place where the people you're in a program with are very cool, then that kind of helps with all the other things that are annoying about being a graduate student.
Makes sense. I mean, that's true about most places, those who are happiest at work are happy there because of the teams that they're working with. Those who are happiest at school are happiest because of the people they're studying with. It makes perfect sense. I am curious of all the plays that you've already written and produced. Do you have a favorite? Is that weird? Is that like asking what's your who's which one's your favorite child?
It's, it is exactly like asking, which is my favorite child. Yeah. I love them all in different ways. And and some of them are more successful than others and other people love them more. Which is really awkward to when someone's like, Oh, I love this one kid this other one she's trash I love them. I love them all and they've all been like a weird teaching even the stuff that's super embarrassing to me. It's like I remember the lesson or like where it was in my life when I was trying to save this thing that was very cluttered or not clear. So I appreciate it. I appreciate them all you know I think only a few of them were like excruciatingly embarrassing to me. But, but yeah, that the lane I'm in right now is really fun. I've just kind of been in this like comedy farce space, just I think as an escape from like, the hellscape that we're living in. It's been really fun to just to like own the power of like, oh, like silly escape is also very powerful and can bring community together and like this is also as important as the stories I want to tell that are much more about like social issues and injustice. Like those are also very important, but I think I'm leaning into for right now I'm leaning into like the comedy space of like, what silly story can I tell to just entertain us and take us away for two hours you know? So it's fun.
That's a really good point. Theater plays such an interesting role in community and history and society, right like it like your previous works played a role, I think in it as a change making apparatus, bringing these social issues to the front of mind so people can see see and reflect and make changes. But do comedies have that same effect? Or do they just relieve stress? What do you think?
I think that they totally do. And I think some of the best comedies are, you know, are like satire, especially as a space where we're really like, targeting something in society that is wrong or evil or bad, with the hope of changing and I think comedy is a great space because it opens us up, you know, it, like disarms us in this really lovely way where we can, you know, have that harder conversation, you know, that might be hard, you know, it's hard to sell a show, like, hey, let's come and talk about, you know, mental illness and like white supremacy from the standpoint of a biracial person, like that's kind of a hard sell. I do have a play that exactly that play, no comedy, or few jokes, but it's not a comedy, versus like, Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to give you this Trojan horse of like, sort of a Handmaid's Tale, Sister Wives and we're going to have dick jokes for like an hour. And at the heart of the show, we're actually going to be talking about like this government control of femme and female bodies and fertility and all the fucked up patriarchy that's going on. Like that's, it's easier to sell the dick jokes as a way into the conversation about the other thing, you know, so I like that comedy. I think really, comedy is hard, harder to do for me than then the more dramatic stuff. And yeah, you just see the audience kind of relax a little bit, they're a little more like, Okay, my expectation is to have fun. And that's a different mindset of like, going into something that, like, my expectation is to be told what to do, you know, or shown that the way I live is wrong, you know, it's just like, it's just a different strategy. Or audience, you know,
that makes a ton of sense. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. I hadn't even as I was thinking out loud. I hadn't even considered satire, which is hugely important when it comes to change. Yeah, yeah. And also entertains, it fits the bill for both
Everything, yeah. I was gonna say you can plant this like little seed and somebody to when you've like, open, you know, kind of they've opened up, they're a little more vulnerable to like that conversation, I think a lot of the work is just against like planting that little seed of change in someone like, I can't expect anyone to, like leave any play, more or less mine. And like the Oh, that completely transformed me, I see the world completely different. But it's like that little seed of an idea that like, can manifest later in someone's life, you know, so you're hoping for the seed, you know, if anything,
yeah. In part of my consulting work with on your feet, one of the things that we did that was really interesting was we partnered with their diversity and inclusion efforts several years ago. But but largely, we're there as experienced producers, we give people experiences that spark conversation. And in this case, we decided that showing the silliness, the ridiculousness of what we're talking about when we're talking about exclusion, and just, you know, people's unconscious biases was to literally play the role of totally checked out, letting your unconscious biases drive you characters, it was super fun. And the audience's laughed a lot, because it's really obvious when you're looking at somebody else's bad behavior. Um you can really point out what's not working. And, and then the audience got to be heroes in when they had the conversations with each other about what would be better, what are ways to solve for this kind of stuff that, you know, that obviously, we're showing them exaggerated versions of. And so it was like a really, a really helpful way to defuse the tension of being like, Hey, everybody, come on in here. We want to talk about creating an inclusive spaces, and a whole bunch of people walking in there going. I don't want to look like a bad guy.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, I mean, our defenses are up and we want to protect ourselves and we feel you know, there's a lot that's unfriendly and unkind about our world, period, historically, currently, and probably in the future as well. So those defenses make a lot of sense and it feels like comedy and the art in the arts expression, anything that really lets people kind of at least examine the defenses you know, and I do that a lot personally to just like wondering like my setting a clear boundary or my cutting myself off from like an experience for example, I think about that a lot like what's the line of like, you know, cuz as you get older too, you're like, Huh, you know, you're more I feel like more and more my walls get moving in closer where I'm like, Nope, not doing that not doing that. I'm not gonna you know what I mean? And so every once a while, I kind of stop and go, Wait, am I just like completely closing myself off from from a person Or an experience or a place? Because I've been told something or or is that like a protective measure as that my my body my experience actually saying no, no, you're not going to enjoy this. Protect yourself, you know?
I don't know,
right past experience makes a great teacher. So there is there is a lot of wisdom and listening to those past experiences saying, maybe not this time, I think you're going down that path. But then there is, as you say, the other side of the coin, where it's easy to let those experiences inform unrelated experiences because of the fear of this, this thing that you actually go through. Yeah. And when it comes to the big concept of change, when you think about change, do you tend to think about change in global terms? Like the inspiration for your plays? Or when you initially hear that word? Do you think more in internally about changes that you've been through? Or that you want to go through?
I think probably the latter. Yeah, I think it's more I think, maybe a more on a personal, although there are definitely connections to outer outward changes in my life or in my environment. But yeah, I think more about internally, you know, where I've been resistant to change and where I've been, like, dying for change, like, actually, like putting myself very intentionally in experiences, because I know it's gonna break up my pattern. I know, it's gonna make me look look at the world or look at myself in a different way.
Can you give me an example of a change that you're like? No. And then when you were like, please change.
Um, well, I mean, more recently, it's been like around grad school. And like, my boundaries about you know, they're like, hey, come take this Meisner class. I'm like, now, I'm a blu ray, I come for acting school. And I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I am so sorry if y'all love Meisner, I know it is. No, it is helpful for some people. But I've seen too many improvisers go into Meisner, and come out and all their instincts are gone. And I'm like, What happened? Like, I know you want to be a serious actor, but what happened? Because before you were like, so, you know, like, it just would make choices and you know, it just it's just like a screwed a lot of really great actors. But I know others really get something from it anyway. That's the boundary for me. Lot of emotions. A lot of opinions. Like, no, you know, I, I, I will make
There're many opinions about miser.
Maybe I'm not alone. Yeah, I feel bad. You know, what, because one person's training, you know, for me, it's just does nothing for me. But for someone else. It's like opening up all these things. But yeah, so that's like a recent example of me just being like, no, this is not something I want to do. I don't there's no discussion about it. But I'll say a lot of my moves have moved a whole lot in my my life since college very intentionally. Sometimes it's because I was going where there was a gig and I just kind of have been following this path of like, hey, there's a job for you just go and do it. And it's just me. And so it's easy for me to, you know, put myself in storage and just go be somewhere. But when I first moved to Chicago, that was a very intentional, I was actually between, like, do I live in Chicago? Or do I live in New York, and I went the path of like, New York would have been, I knew a lot of people I went to school in New York, it would have been like a, in a way easier, although more expensive. And then Chicago was a choice where it's like, I'm not gonna know anyone. So who am I, away from my family away from my friends, my support system, like, I'm gonna have to land on my feet, and I'm probably gonna learn a lot about myself worked out, it's fine. I survived. It was great, the first six months to a year of any new places, weird, you know, just figuring out who you are, and what kind of friends you have, and all that stuff. But some of it stayed the like, the part I love about that was like, there's this like, essential part of who I am as a human that stays the same, no matter what my location is, or what I'm doing. And my friends, too, there's a quality to the people that I am drawn to that are in my closest circle that kind of stays the same, even though they're wildly different people. So yeah.
I love thinking about that balance between routine and change between seeking stability and seeking shaking it up. And like, I mean, it's one of the things that draws me to talk to everybody about this one idea, like who would have thought you could have a whole show dedicated to a city. But to me, it's such rich territory because it's, it's this weirdly on universal slash unique to each individual experience, right? Like, we're all grappling with what that looks like with what's built seeking versus seeking difference. I just love that delicious concept.
Yeah, yeah. And the consequent I also don't know, like, because being a dramatist, I mean, we're, we're creating characters all the time. And stories, are characters going through a change, they're going through transformation. And do they are they do they end up victorious? In the end? Do they, you know, end up losing everything in the end? Or is it a completely random ending that no one has has seen before? You know, you get to say I'm saying I'm assuming for performers as well, you get to go through that path. Even though it hasn't happened to you, you have a safe way of exploring that change can look like for a totally fictional person, but feels real.
That's so interesting, right? I wonder how compelling a play would be if it was a play about routine where it was just routine. I wonder what audiences would even do with that just sitting there and watching the same thing. I feel like they'd be on the edge of their seats being like, something has to change eventually.
That and that's where I think a lot of absurdist work is exactly that, you know, you're like, well, is Godot gonna come or not, you know what I mean? Like, you're just seeing people kind of trapped, the trappings of, of routine and pattern, but they're also very comforting to us. And in our real life, you know, we, we love pattern. And as audiences, we're looking for pattern. So yeah, it's like such a crazy balance between those extremes, you know, what makes sense for a certain person doesn't make sense for someone else. So
well, Adrienne, I invited you to share a story about a fork in the road moment in your own life, because not only do I like thinking about how change affects us, you know, in our day to day, but I like thinking about how the moments in the past, change our lens towards the future. So you know, we all have these moments that we look back, and we're like, and after that everything changed, or it really shaped who I am today, or if that wouldn't have happened. I never want to learn to tie my shoes, whatever. And did you bring that story? Do you have a story to share?
Yeah, so um, I thought I would talk about my time in Tulsa, because a little bit of backstory is that I had been working a regular day job I got into this fellowship program in Tulsa. And so I have talked about the experience of that transition that moved from Austin to Tulsa, I haven't really told the story of like, getting out of Tulsa into where I am currently and sort of the circumstances of that which was a big for me, it was more of a gradual change than like a ha moment. It was just like a bunch of things kind of adding up that that that went off for me.
But yeah, I was in this fellowship program. in Tulsa, Oklahoma. It's for artists and visual, so visual artists and writers. And it's really sold on like, you get this free, a free place to live, you have a stipend, you have workspace, everything's free, and you get a site. Yeah. So that you're free to get a stipend. And so it just on the page looked awesome was sort of like what, for a very long time I had been looking for, you know, so I was really excited about but I also knew it meant leaving behind my entire community being someplace different. And there were a lot of red flags in that process. Even signing my contract there was like a red red flag of like, I quit my job and then I didn't have on paper that I was for sure the program. So emailing being like, Am I really, I just quit my job. So am I really going to be there and just like all these, like little red flags happening all around me. And what I could tell was that it was a program it was brand new, and I think I came in with a spirit of like, they're figuring out their things. I'm sort of a guinea pig, but if I kind of lay low, I just do my work, you know, free rent, my life will be okay. Just kind of suck it up. You know what I mean? And other people were having very serious problems with staff and like the transition into this program things like their studios not being available, visual artists bringing in really expensive equipment and then not having a place to store like all this mess around me. And I kept being like, No, you know, nothing doesn't affect me. But like, I can still sit at a coffee shop and write plays. It's not it's not disrupting my everyday it's not like anyone's physically being harmed or anything big. But it was this weird test because it was like I know the things going on that I don't agree with and I think are wrong. And yet I don't know where my place and like speaking up and saying anything. And I saw a range of I saw a range of different reactions. I saw Some people just completely check out. I saw some people get very angry and confront not only the foundation staff, but the board, etc, etc. And I was kind of in the middle of like, What do I do? How do I make through with this, you know, so I did a year of that program just kind of in this weird space of like, Okay, the first year of anything is weird, but I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that they're listening. And I can make this work for myself, I hustled so hard to get here. This is, you know, on social media, this looks like an amazing, amazing experience or opportunity. I don't want to mess this up. Then, like, towards the second year, I was really starting, some of the administration changed over. And so all of a sudden, you know, you get hopeful a second wave of Hope you're like, Okay, new people are in. So maybe things will get better for us, maybe, maybe it'll chill out. And some of the some of the more extreme things happening were like, other artists like getting in screaming matches and weird things with our contracts or just like a laundry list of like, it was just like red flags, like, exploding all around me. And again, I'm cool with people like I haven't burned any bridges. I'm like, right in that safe, mediocre, middle spot, you know, I'm not pissing off anybody. I'm doing my job. I'm friendly with people. But again, like in my heart of hearts, I just was like, I have a problem with this. And I have also have a problem figuring out how to say anything about it. So I need for me the change the change piece was like kind of really assessing because again, this was like a year and a half's time, this was not an instantaneous, I've got to get out. But I did start listening to the Get Out soundtrack. After a while just being a weirdo, I would like play the get out soundtrack, like the first song, you know, it's like the African drums, I would stare out my window and be like, I have to get out of here. How am I gonna get out of here? And so I started to like, really did this, it's kind of it's ridiculous now. But I started to look at some other like, what are some other pathways for me, because part of what kept me there were financial concerns. It's not like, I come from a lot of money, and I've got all these savings. I just put all my savings into moving there.
And and then this was my main financial support to augment it really changing the like my money situation, which again, I don't come from money. So like, how do I manage that. So I ended up like, just very slyly and quietly, like quietly applying to things, and quietly telling my friends, you know, I am looking for a way out. And I suggest that you do you know, everyone had a different relationship. So it's I don't want to impose on anybody, but I just was like, Look, some things are really alarming to me, I think I'm gonna think when I make that jump. And so by the end of 2018, that was December, I had already signed a contract with the program to continue with third year as my safety net. So a little shady, I signed this contract, kind of while I was pursuing the exit route. But then the exit route happened. And I thought great, I can break the contract now. And it won't be like I'm on the hook kind of taking their money, while also trying to get away from them. I just felt like a very weird relationship to be like, I don't stand for what you stand for. And yet, I'm going to cash a check from you. Every month, it just felt very eh...you know I mean, it's like living living with some integrity, some connection of like, me, painting pating says that I condone the way that you're treating the people who work for you, when I know in my heart that the way that you're treating people is not correct, even though it's not me that's being targeted, you know. So 2019, you know, I took a risk, I was like, I'm gonna, instead of a full length, or full year rather internship, I'll do a bunch of little ones. And I had it mapped out to spring. And then it was a big question mark, like, I don't know what my life is gonna look like, I don't know where I'm gonna be. I don't know how I'm gonna make money. But I'm gonna just, I'm just going to go and do this because again, the idea of like, staying with this thing, which again, financially, the smart decision would have been to just shut my mouth, take their money, and, and suffer. Financially, that would have been smart, but in terms of my happiness, the route was to get out and it was really remarkable that when I did get out and I got into this other very short term, I'm we're talking two months, you have to move all your shit to go someplace for two months. And you have to do it all over again and be somewhere else. But I went to Memphis and i and i had actually like, what I've been wanting the whole experience was to really feel a part of like a creative community. The other people there were so great. I would have never met those artists. Some of them are still friends of mine. They're people from all over from China, Italy, Canada. So it ended up being like a really good risk for me to take. But I think I think the lessons learned it kind of come on the other side of that the lessons learned are really about me, number one advocating for myself and I saw lots of different examples of how different artists did it right, there was a spectrum, a very extreme for me, to completely passive, don't say anything. And again, I was in the middle of somewhere. So figuring out like, how to really advocate for myself as an artist was an important learning lesson that I kind of had to go through. But listening also to that gut, I mean, I think for so long, when things got bad or like a job, or situation, I would just keep hoping it would get better, I just kept being like, benefit of a doubt. In time, they're going to figure it out. And and it will mean something that I stuck by in this hard time, it really shows my commitment or shows my tenacity, whatever. And, again, as I get older, more experienced, I'm just sort of like, I have a shorter timeframe of like, Yes, I want to try to give people a chance to, to course correct or whatever. But also, like there's a there's a window of that before it's like excessive and like it's actually harmful for you to be in this very negative toxic work environment. I did no writing, by the way, it was two years. So I mean, there was a creative.
I mean, we're there to write. And I mean, I was so distracted by all the drama going on around me. And this, this this foundation, this fellowship that really did not know how to run an arts residency. So it was a gamble both going in, but it was also a gamble to get out. So that's kind of been I mean, I think and now like, how I how I advocate for myself as an artist, and also a graduate student, I think it's all linked to those experiences. Like I'm a lot more vocal, when things aren't working. You know, I'm not afraid to like be like, Hey, you know, respectfully, what's going on with this? Why are we doing it this way? So that's, that's, uh, I think that that's been like a very difficult and at times, it was really like, how am I gonna make money? I had like, a surprise surgery during that time, too, was like, surprise, you need surgery? And you have no money. Oh, my God. Yeah. So it was like all these things financially being thrown at me. And I just kept being like, no, I cannot go back. I cannot, I cannot do that anymore. You know. So that's my story of change. I mean, it's a very micro one. But I felt like election interviews about like, Oh, I got into this cool thing. And I don't think I've really talked about like, the disaster. Tulsa, Oklahoma, there's great people there, I really don't want to trash on toast, because there are great artists that live in that community. But the foundation that was working with was really, really challenging. And I'm really happy to be out of the cloud. That was that experience, because that was very hard. Wow.
Well, thank you so much for sharing that story for sharing your thoughts about advocating for yourself. I think that that's such an important lesson to learn. And it's not obvious or easy, is the thing about it. It's like, it's like a critical life skill that nobody teaches you and is hard to figure out.
Yeah, yeah, it's a very like in the middle, like light touch, you know, because if you go too extreme, you know, it can really turn people off or be be harmful, or be sort of violent. And then on the other hand, if you're just passive, and you don't speak up, when things are wrong, if it's not directly happening to you, there are consequences for that, you know, what is it like, silence is violence, I've heard that said a lot. And that's really been a phrase I've been holding on to, as a lot of things going on, not just like work, but like a lot of things in the world where it's just like, Sure, we don't speak up and we don't talk about, you know, this injustice or this thing that's really, really harming a lot of people, then it's a it's as if you're complicit with those actions, you know, that you aren't speaking up and saying something. So yeah, you know, I have a work example. But I mean, like, you get those skills and they apply to, like, so many aspects of your life. You know, I think that you get a little bit of practice and it inspires you to be more bold in other parts of your life where you're maybe, you know, convener, maybe you're more limited, you know, and like how to how to speak up, and your relationships or your friendships and say, you know,
is really harmful. I gotta go. That's a hard call. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, these things are never easy. They're super important, though. And I think that when people have the ability to, to speak up and ask important questions gracefully, it can be so powerful, and be able to say, not just to speak up and be like, Don't talk to me like that, which is, you know, like, that's an important you got to like push the barrier at some point. But to be able to say like, Hey, here's what I noticed. I'm super curious. thought of that, because this is what it was like for me. And you may not know. So I'm curious, what was that moment like for you? It's like, that's, you know, we're leveling up now that conversation. And yeah, I think it's critical to be able to do it, but it's not. It's not easy. And I think it's, it's almost mind boggling how counterintuitive. Being able to do these things seems to be from for most of us.
I think also, like creative fields, you're so because it's so tied to it's your livelihood. And you are you're trying to make a living again, this is just me. I mean, imagine people going through that experience with kids going through experience with a partner person, if they also were financially responsible for in some way. Like, it's, it's really hard. I think, as artists, we're, we're worse, it's such a complicated relationship, because it's hard already, just to be asked to be paid a fair wage for the work that we do, or to be recognized that the work that we contribute is of value and important. And so it feels like there's a lot of really sketchy, you know, interactions that happen between artists and institutions where they aren't clear about terms or people just sort of, they're just like, Oh, it's not, you know, we endure a lot because we want to have the ability to do like, our, the thing that we're most passionate about, but you know, it's it's definitely taught me to, like, ask a lot of questions, review my contracts very carefully, and say, No, you know, I say no, a lot more to things then than I did, as a younger artist, just just happy to be recognized as someone that was creative versus like, Okay, let me really think about, is this something I really want to do? versus Is this something I feel like I have to do to make money? You know, those are different jobs. For me.
It's interesting, thinking about this, this change. First, like the red flags, piling up the evaluation phase, the listening to music, and staring out the window dramatically, followed by sending out applications, sending out applications phase. I'm super curious if you had not been accepted to any of these applications. Where would you be right now? Would you have stuck it out? Would you have gone back to Austin, where would you be?
Had I not? I mean, I think my point, like I have plans on top of plans, you know, because it kind of like I don't want to, I want to have something lined up before I jumped. And I know plenty of people who don't roll that way. But I guess I just wanted a little bit of a security blanket financially. So I would have probably stayed a third year and kept applying to things like maybe I would be there for six months and then get out for the last, you know, we only had my contract be there, nine months out of the year, which not everyone followed. But I was a good girl, I followed my contract. You know, I follow a course waterfall my contract. But I would have probably like dropped after nine months, I would have just been like, I'm here for nine months. And then now I've moved out. And I'll just get my check in the mail kind of thing. But yeah, I don't know about if I would have pursued school, I definitely would have had that experience in Memphis where I was like part of like, what was a really good fruitful art artists residency because that could have also really turned me off from the experience completely. But you know, the nice thing about sure you can do that is like especially if you're like interested in breaking your pattern and and if your work really benefits from putting yourself embedding yourself in a different community, different perspective, than residences or retreats, you know, however they come about are a really great way to like break the mold of like how you make work and the voices that you're listening to and, you know, the people you meet all those things. So, but yeah, I wouldn't I don't think I would be I think it would be much more passive. You know,
well, I'm glad that I, I'm glad that you didn't have to be I'm glad that you're in a in a really rewarding residency. I love hearing that you're writing comedy. I'm really excited about that. And I'm curious as we kind of bring this conversation to a gentle close. I'm curious what you would love for people to walk away from having listened to this conversation. What would you love them to walk away with to? advice, wisdom, love of the arts advocate. You tell me Yeah, pay your artists Number one, I mean, I think it's so
I think it's, it's, it's I think the two things that are standing out is like, paying attention to I mean, I, as you mentioned, there were there were red flags piled on top of red flags for me. So it's not that I lacked the ability to see them as red flags. I was just sort of like, No, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. It'll be alright. It'll be right, this other thing will be better. And so I think on one hand, it's really like listening to your gut. And I mean, I think that's, that's sharpened my instincts for sure of like, Okay, a couple red flags is enough. You don't need to wait for things to blow up. You can just have a couple red flags and go, you know, or at least ask questions, like you said, like, at least engage in a conversation about what are the expectations? What do you what do you need here? What is this relationship? If it's a relationship, red flag, you know? So yeah, really, really, really, to the, to your intuition about things? Because I do think that, you know, our bodies are trying to keep us alive and help us survive, and, and beyond the base level, you want to be thinking about thriving, and how do you open up your life to all the wonderful possibilities that
could be there?
I think the thing is like karma, you know what I mean? Like thinking about it, especially if you are in a position of power, you are a gatekeeper. You are a leader, you are a director, you're a boss, the extension of humility, and understanding and flexibility, adaptability that is required of that job, you know, you see people in leadership, who were just like, how did you get this? You know, what I mean? It's just like, Do you have money? And have you been doing it long enough, it's kind of how we determine leaders, you know, for the most part, but really having someone who was tuned in and tapped into listening to the people that are working, quote, unquote, under them, and like really considering it more of like, a, you know, not I wouldn't say family, because in work situation, that's weird. That's not really your family, that's your job. And your family you go home to but like really just looking. Looking at the whole person, I would say, you know, instead of like, you're this person, you know, in the case of this, like weird artist residency, it's like a billionaire being like, you're the artists that are in my monastry. You know, and and that's not a great feeling, either. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know, anybody that really wants to be in that. But, but opening those channels and actually listening because some, some people will be like, yeah, that's open, open office, come talk to me anytime you want. And then you you do and you're like, Okay, I'll be honest with you, this thing is not working for me, or I have a hard time with this. And then immediately everything closes, and they get angry at you. Why did you tell me something wasn't, you know, why are you telling me that I'm not doing a good job? Or that you're having a challenge with something? And? Yeah, I mean, I will admit that it's hard to be the leader, it's hard to be in charge of anything, but it just feels like if there could just be a little more grace and, and allowing for space for things to change, you know, when I mean, allowing that allowing for that space, even that little movement with help so much for everybody's experience, including yours leading, you know, I mean, who wants to lead a bunch of really, really unhappy people? I don't know, dumped basis. But I'm making so much trouble. Um, but you know, I
I don't, I don't think anybody wants to lead unhappy people. I think they, like people who are in leadership positions vary in their, what motivates them and what they think motivates others. And it's easy, I think, for leaders, you know, I do a lot of work with leaders. And it's easy for them to forget about the human aspect. So I think your advocacy here, if you're going to ask the question, listen to the answer is just like such a clear, easy piece of action for people to take, if you're going to ask a question, listen to the answer and allow that to affect your decisions moving forward, because you're going to go through the steps to not follow through is causing more harm than good. So yeah, it's a really good thing for people to be aware of. Thank you so much. This has been absolutely lovely and our time together far too short. But I super appreciate you being on the show. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
advocating for yourself isn't always easy, particularly when there are other factors like money and expectations, writing on what you do. Because it isn't easy. We can fall into the trap of ignoring red flags and simply waiting to see if it'll get better. It's like that thing where you get a piece of pie or a cookie or something but doesn't taste that great. And then he did anyway, like, Look, if it doesn't taste great on the first bite, you know, it's not gonna taste great on the seventh but how many times have we just gone on maintenance anyway? Well, I am here to tell you, you don't have to you deserve sweeter, more fulfilling desserts. And in terms of work, relationships and the paths that we take. It's true that sometimes we can change things from the better within and maybe we shouldn't. But there are also times when the best choice is to make the bigger change and just move on to sweeter rewards elsewhere. I want to hear from you have thoughts feelings sarcastic remarks are a story to share based on listening to this episode helped me keep the conversation going. join the Facebook group www.facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash change hub you can check out Adrienne's amazing works at www.AdrienneDawes.com. We'll have the links in the show notes for this episode. I want to thank Adrienne for sharing her story and her thoughts. Special thanks go to my family for their love, support and patience to all of the amazing changed podcast Patreon page members who I couldn't do this without art of change skills for life. And Patreon member producer Dr. Rick Kirschner and I want to thank you for listening to the changed podcast. I'm Aden Nepom. And I wish you the kind of experiences in life that you're excited to tell stories about