Classroom to Copy #19: Kristy Chadwick on Overcoming Burnout & Finding Community through Copywriting

5:47PM Oct 20, 2023

Speakers:

Tania Yeo

Kristy Chadwick

Keywords:

copywriting

copy

teacher

tania

escape velocity

chief

boundaries

teaching

kristy

people

realise

coach

skills

writing

learning

call

years

working

good

bullying

Hey everybody, how's it going? Welcome back to another episode of Classroom to Copy. I'm your host, Tania, and with me is the wonderful Kristy Chadwick, who is another teacher-turned-copywriter, I've met off the Copy Chief community and whom I recently met - finally - in person in Nashville. And we unfortunately are both sick so you might hear a bit of nasally voices, runny noses, or like coughing, but that's just gonna be the thing that defines this episode is that we're here because we want to uplift all the other teachers who want to become copywriters.

All right, so Kristy, do you want to introduce yourself, like what you used to teach? You know, what led you to copywriting?

Yeah, actually, before I was a teacher, I did all kinds of random, unrelated jobs, everything from working in a bank or a video store when I was younger, secretarial, marketing for a law office, worked in a theme park on stage singing. And then when I was working in a bank there was a layoff, and I had to decide what I want to do next. And I was deciding between being a veterinary technician or a teacher. And the friends and family that were helping me talk this through pointed out: if you become a teacher, you can't take them all home with you, no matter how cute or how needy they are.

So I sort of became a teacher by accident. I did that for - oh, let's see - 13 of the last 20 years. I had a little bit of time off to start my family. And part of my teaching years included five years as a Case Manager, which is low-level administration, but it's organising the special ed programme, the paperwork, the services, and the staff, for everybody who needed it. Then in November... I realised I was miserable about a year before that, and I guess it was showing. I guess my attitude was not as positive as I usually am. And I think my boss got wind of the fact that I was looking to leave after Christmas. So the day before Thanksgiving [break], she comes in. And she says, without any explanation, "Kristy, I'm really sorry, but I'm gonna have to let you go." (Tania: Wow.) Yes, the day before our break. Spontaneously without any thought - she said, "Kristy, I'm gonna have to let you go." - "Oh, thank you!" Out loud, that was my response. No censor. So she did me a huge favour.

Were there - it sounds like you were pretty ready to leave. Were there any mixed feelings?

The only mixed feeling was I didn't get to say goodbye to the kids. I was upset about that. But, because my daughter still attended school there, I was able to see them and act like it was no big deal. And we played it like it was my choice to leave and do other things. So the kids weren't too terribly traumatised.

So you mean when she walked in, and, you know, she dismissed you, like she just slammed the door in your face like that. And you then - there was no transition out of the classroom or handover. Wow.

No, it was at lunchtime. And after I said "Oh thank you," I didn't even ask why - I didn't care. And I said "Okay, so what -- the end of the day, end of the semester?" She said "No, right now." And then security walked in.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, standard procedure. So I had 10 minutes to gather any essential personal items. And then over the weekend, she let me in to get my other things. But it was rough, because - boom - all of a sudden. Now. You're gone.

What do you think was your personal tipping point? You know, it sounds like by the time you, you know, she came in and said all this to you, you just blurted out, "Oh, thank you." Something must have been building up, right? Like, what was what led to all of that. What was building up in you?

I had started a new school in August and this was in November. It had not been a very positive experience. The staff did try to reach out and teach me their new systems, their new programmes. They tried to be supportive, but I didn't know what to ask. You don't know what you don't know. And there was also one teacher on my team who was actually bullying me. It was caught on video. She physically and verbally just bullied me all the time. And I was broken from that. And they didn't - in my opinion, they didn't handle it appropriately. So I think I was just emotionally completely spent. And then I got sick. I didn't know I had COVID in November, but I did. I missed a week of school, I had been back for one week, and then this happened. And then after that, I got tested and found out I was sick with COVID. So I think a combination of the wrong kind of support, the negative influence, and the exhaustion.

Then one other factor, I had been teaching fifth grade for a couple of years, and I switched to first grade. First grade is where I started 20 years ago, but times have changed. I have changed. In the 20 years I had become a mother, I'd become an administrator, I had grown to love preteens. First grade was a lot more difficult and a lot more needy than I remembered. So there were a combination of factors. In addition to all the other things teachers universally struggle with, like the extra time, every weekend, most of us are still working. Spending so much time on other people's kids, my own kids are getting just the dregs of what I have left. And that was not okay with me. I only get one child in this life. I'm gonna make her life good.

Yeah. What did you teach? Was it different for first grade versus fifth grade?

In the beginning, when I started my career it was a self-contained classroom, which is one grade - kindergarten - all the subjects. And then first and second. And then I got into special education, which was about eight kids with special needs. And then at the end, I went back to regular education, and it was fifth grade English Language Arts, which I enjoyed. Reading and writing. The writing part I loved so much. And then first grade - I thought I wanted to go back to first grade, but... I wonder sometimes if I'd stayed teaching English Language Arts in fifth grade, if I might have lasted a little longer, but I needed to move on. So it worked out the way it was supposed to. And I'm not upset about it at all.

Yeah, wow. Every teacher who's been on Classroom to Copy has had this, you know, the moment the story that leads up to that tipping point, like you mentioned. I mean, I'm sorry you had to go through all that, you know, the bullying and that abrupt change. But you mentioned how much fun it was to teach reading and writing. Is that what led you to copywriting? What drew you to it? Or were you dabbling with other things before you found it?

Oh, good question. In November when I left I took a few months to recover emotionally and physically. And around February, I found a coach on LinkedIn who works specifically with transitioning teachers. And I joined her programme, it was a small group of teachers who were trying to leave or who had just left. One of those teachers was starting a business, a pet grooming business I believe it was, and the coach was talking about copywriting and marketing and encouraging her to learn copywriting to do her own. And I thought, copywriting, what's that? I think it's a legal thing. Everyone thinks copywriting is about a copyright for something you've invented. So I started looking into it. And I really, really liked it. It looked very interesting. I've always been someone who jumps in and solves problems. And I felt like copywriting would solve problems for marketers, salespeople and customers. So I'm exploring that.

I haven't 100% decided copywriting is going to be my thing. But it's definitely something I'm going to learn, continue learning, and be skilled at. So after that, I just started looking into the world of copywriting. I found a couple of groups. None of them really resonated with me. I started following Daniel Throssell, fell in love with his style. I love it. (I knew it was just a persona, I knew there was a nice guy behind that, but don't tell the world that.) Then he introduced his group to Escape Velocity through Copy Chief with Kevin Rogers and I talked to my husband, took the leap, invested the course fee, and joined. And that is where my entire life began to change.

Wow.

In a wonderful way. Not just copywriting. The skills that it brought out of me that were dormant that I had either neglected or didn't realise, have been exploding - and that was just since May. I'm discovering things about myself that I really like.

Do you want to share what those skills or things are?

Yeah! The first thing is confidence. I have a group of people that we're all on the same path. And they're so supportive. If I share something I've written, they'll offer very good constructive feedback, but they'll also offer - they're generous with their praise. But beyond writing, these are the skills that I've discovered: connecting people, building communities, just bringing people together. I started a study group in Escape Velocity in Copy Chief. And even though Escape Velocity ended over the summer, we are still very active with each other on the forums, on WhatsApp, and et cetera., and on Copy Chief. There's about 20 of us. And I guess I'm the "mama" of the group. And we give each other support, feedback, copy input. If somebody sees something on Copy Chief, like a workshop: "Hey, guys, don't miss this. Here's a link." It's really just a wonderful group, and they've become my friends as well.

And I found that I'm such a good community builder, and then a coach. Some of the people in the group have actually reached out and we've had Zoom calls where I've coached and critiqued products that they're developing - a course, a webinar... I did a one-on-one with one of my members last week, a couple days ago, sorry, where he presented this webinar, and I asked all the questions and helped him realise what questions might people ask that he didn't anticipate? I gave him some feedback on the presentation, like: in the beginning, take a pulse of your audience, where are they in this subject? Are they experts, are they "nope" they know nothing? And then begin. So the community building, and the outreach, and the supporting people - I always had that in me, but I'd lost it over the years. And that, to me, has been even more valuable than the writing that I'm learning.

That's incredible and I have so many questions, but let's back it up a bit and give our audience some context about Escape Velocity. So it's a programme in Copy Chief that helps copywriters at the early stages of their journey, like get their careers off the ground. I've gone through the programme as well. It was life changing for me because it got me in front of Kevin, and if you put in the work, you leave an impression. He connects you with opportunities. There's almost weekly accountability. I'm not sure if that was the same format with you guys this year. It was like fortnight, every two weeks, you'd have a call with Kevin, right? (Kristy: Yes, we did.) And no matter how big the group is, or how many questions there are, he'll just stay on the call and address them one by one. What was your - what do you think particularly about Escape Velocity changed your life?

The community that they've built, and knowing that there are people who have my back, that I don't have to be afraid to try something new. I wrote an advertorial for the first time. And I had all these eyes on it, telling me what was good about it, what could improve. And then after I improved it, I got feedback again, and it was just so supportive. These people believed in me, so how dare I doubt myself?

Exactly.

Are they wrong? They can't all be wrong about this. So for me in the position where I was, I was very broken, very broken personally. And this community has brought me, I think, into my best - I think my best years are ahead of me now. I've got confidence, I've got boundaries. I'm developing my vision of what I want my career to be. It's really just very meaningful to me - beyond writing.

I think you touched on something very interesting there about boundaries. Because as former teachers, I don't know about you, but I had terrible boundaries. (Kristy: Absolutely.) And you know what, why don't you share like, what did you experience in Escape Velocity - was it about dealing with clients, or copywriting clients?

Some of it, yes. So there could be a boundary of how much you're willing to revise after you submit a project to a client. You should be upfront in your contract of what more you'll do after the project's been completed, or they could keep you going and going and going. (Tania: Yeah.) You can set personal boundaries of how much you want to earn. You don't charge $20 an hour for a project that's worth $50 or $100. And so many - women in particular - undervalue ourselves. We want to please people so we'll - if they say "my budget is 25," and you were hoping to charge 50, a lot of women will just say, "Well, okay, I can do that." Instead of saying, "Well, my budget is 50, how about 40?" Or "I'm sorry. 50 is my budget, now here's what I can do for 50," etcetera. That's just an example.

But also, as my confidence has grown, and I've realised that I have things to contribute, my boundaries in my personal life have improved as well. This is what I have planned today, and my husband comes in and says, "Hey, I need help cleaning out the garage." Oh, man, I would love to do that and actually would enjoy that. But first, I have two hours that I've devoted to writing this advertorial, or this call with Tania. And before, I would just be kind of, Okay, I guess I'll do this later... You know, obviously you have to be flexible, but boundaries - for women in particular - I think when you become a freelancer, you'd better have good boundaries.

Yeah, definitely. It's something that I didn't even grow up learning, that when I entered the community, you know, there's so many examples of these freelancers asserting their boundaries. And if you're not sure if something's a reasonable boundary, you can even ask and then you have a whole bunch of people backing you up. (Kristy: Absolutely.) The other really interesting thing that you said just now, skills that have always been in you that you felt were lost. So you talked about coaching people on calls and building community, how much of that do you think came from, or could have transferred from, teaching?

I think all of it. I had to have had the skills in me to begin with, because certain soft skills you just can't learn. You either have that talent or you don't. So when you have students, a group or one on one, your entire goal is for them to succeed. Your entire reason to exist is to help them learn. So that definitely translated. And then, being able to coach and teach, it's directly related to teaching in the classroom.

(Oops, excuse me. I'm trying my hardest not to cough in the recording. Sorry, guys.) So, besides that, what other teaching skills do you feel you've transferred over to copywriting? Or you saw become very relevant throughout the process of Escape Velocity.

In teaching, you have to differentiate your instruction for a big variety of your audience, your students. And you can't just learn how to write an email and write it the same way for every client. You can take your basic structure and your ideas. But different clients and different products have different needs. You have to be very flexible and adaptable. Being organised, and record keeping was another skill as a teacher that translates really well. Because especially if you're freelancing, if you've got four clients going at the same time, you better be able to sort and track your time, and keep those projects afloat, and meet your deadlines. You've got to meet deadlines in teaching, and you meet deadlines in copy. People skills, you know you're sometimes going to work with people you don't like. The difference is if I had a client who was a bully, I would cut them off. (Tania: Yeah.) But that teacher, I couldn't really do that. I just stayed out of her way. (Tania: Yeah.) I'm sure there are so many more, but the top ones that come are the organisation, the coaching and the being able to adapt your rhythm, or your routine, or your materials.

I mean, that's a lot of skills. Like we don't - we take those things for granted, but they've become so ingrained that we think all we're doing is like, just one thing - teaching. But there's so many things that are part of that.

I have a document that I could share with you if you wanted to make it available. It's available online, but it's a whole page of what you do as a teacher, and how it translates to the "real world." I'll send that to you, and if you think it's useful...

That's super generous, I'm sure our audience - and I - would love that. So let's let's talk about what you're working on right now. And you know, if any potential clients are listening, what do you specialise in? Or who do you hope to help with your copy, or your coaching, or even like your latest - I'm not gonna spoil it, but the name of your super cool group? Yeah, so what are you working on right now?

Well, the group is just a private group. We're not advertising or open to the public. But what I'm working on now is I'm building more skills. I'm about to start taking the Email Copy Academy. And right now what I'm really good at is advertorials, which is, if you don't know, storytelling - I know you know, Tania - but storytelling with a purpose. I wrote one for Stepmom Magazine. It was a story about a struggle I was having with a stepdaughter and that situation, and how I discovered Stepmom Magazine, and how it was beneficial and changed everything. I wrote another one about Copy Chief - these were just, this one was just a sample. So right now, I'm very good at storytelling. And I love doing it.

I'm developing skills in other areas as well. And I'm also very interested in coaching and consulting. I've done a couple of website reviews, where I went through and evaluated the copy as well as any broken links, even little things that aren't related to copy. I did one for Belmont Academy, which is a big charter school here in town. It ended up being a 22-page report that they found very useful. (Tania: Wow!) And then if you have a course that you're developing, I can help get that in order and help with the copy or even just the format and the structure. Yeah, right now I'm not narrow-focused. I'm more of a broad focus so that I can do many things. I may eventually specialise. But for now, I'm sort of a consultant in many areas.

And that's great. If anyone's listening, what's the best way to find you?

I'm on LinkedIn, Kristy Chadwick. If you're in Copy Chief, I'm in there as well. Those are probably the best ways. I have a landing page, but I haven't developed it yet so let's hold off on that. But the link will be on my LinkedIn when it's ready.

So I'll definitely drop a link to all of the websites and social media that Kristy just mentioned. Especially -

Oh also I'm on Medium. (Tania: Oh, yeah!) On Medium it's just my fun stuff. Medium is not my business stuff, it's just my fun stuff. If you want to get to know more about my style and personality, I think it reflects a lot in my memoir essays on Medium.

I'm sure that'll be super helpful too. Do you talk about your past experiences, not just with teaching. I mean, you know, I went back and looked at your intro post actually on Copy Chief. It was like you said, there's some ancient history about working in the bank and all that stuff.

Little things. Yeah, we did something called the Unique DNA in Escape Velocity. Remember that? (Tania: Yeah.) Where you dig into your past and your interests and you find common threads. And that was fabulous. I had forgotten some of the things I've done. But my stories on Medium are - there's one about the death of my brother, and how I lost two brothers with the death of one. There's another story about when 911 happened - I was in Washington DC at the time. And there's another story about my daughter having a meltdown tantrum in Walmart, and I was in a wheelchair at the time from surgery. Those three stories are what I have up right now.

Wow, that sounds incredible. Do you link it on LinkedIn? Because I would love to read those.

I'll go ahead and do that - I think I might. But if I didn't, I don't see...

Okay, I'm gonna send you an email and make sure that you give me everything. (Kristy: I'm writing it down! Okay.) So what's the number one thing you absolutely want the audience to know about you and your journey so far?

A message for teachers, I think. If you - if you get the "Sunday Scaries" - I think I've heard that phrase recently. Where Sunday night you're just dreading Monday morning. If you are taking work home every night and every weekend. If you're having trouble setting boundaries on that, if you can't look down the future and see yourself still doing this in 10 years, you really need to consider an exit strategy. Is it okay to mention the name of a speaker that taught me something?

Do you mean like from Copy Chief? (Kristy: I got it from Nashville.) Yeah, why not?

I went to a Copy Chief conference in Nashville. That's where I met Tania. Marcella Allison was one of the speakers - a wonderful woman. She spoke about knowing when to quit. And that was probably one of the most powerful things I heard. She talked about knowing when to quit and having a plan to quit. Not just a plan of "I know I want to quit, now I better set myself up to do it." But before you even start. "At what point - at what point will I realise this isn't working for me anymore?" So if you're a teacher right now and you're frustrated, and you don't think you want to be a teacher anymore, you need a plan. So that when you reach the point where you're ready to walk away, you'll be ready. Or if something happens to you like me, where you walk away unexpectedly, you won't panic. The plan could be simple, like, if you're in the ability to get a more affordable living situation/house, or I quit getting my nails done and cut down on the number of entertainment channels I had at home. There are so many ways, if money is your concern, there are so many ways to cut back.

It is scary. But what's scarier to me is looking at my future and being 55 years old, 60 years old, and still doing a job I hate. You have to take a chance and believe in yourself. You have to know when you're going to quit and how you're going to make it happen. And then, while you're preparing to leave, and after you've left. I was just talking today with Sarah Goldsbury. She's a friend I just made on Copy Chief. She reminded me you need to say yes to everything in your field. If you're looking - like I'm looking into consulting and copywriting, I'm saying yes to any opportunity that comes my way. I just picked up an assignment this morning, which isn't something I expected to do, but I said yes and I'm going to love it. You need to believe in yourself, that you can leave teaching. I spent so many years wishing I could leave and I wasted all that time.

And then the other thing I would suggest is find someone in your life who's not a teacher who believes in you. I met Melanie Warren also in Nashville. And when I introduced myself to her, the first thing she said was, "Oh, Kristy Chadwick, you're a powerhouse!" And I thought that was a class that I was supposed to be enrolled in and I said, "No, I don't think I'm in that - what is that?" She said "No, YOU. You are a powerhouse." And she went on to explain, and my understanding was she said I show up and make things happen. That was three weeks ago and I'm still living on that feedback. So find someone in your life that believes in you. And when you feel sad, you can call them and say "I can't do this anymore." They'll get you through it until you're ready to leave. And when you do leave, they'll get you through it until you start to see success. And to be honest, I am not 100% where I want to be. I'm still growing what I'm going to do, but my mental outlook is so much better.

And that's the last thing I would recommend for teachers. If you're trying to find a job while you're still teaching if you're as broken down as I was, if you're as tired and drained as I was, you're not going to be putting your best foot forward in interviews and in networking. They are not going to see the real you, they're gonna see the broken version of you. And you could lose opportunities. If you can at all possibly leave, regroup, start building your new life, do it. And if you can't, find people to build you up, so you're not so broken. Know that there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Wow. That's an entire LinkedIn post. That is super powerful. That's an entire LinkedIn post - that was so powerful. I would tear up if I wasn't also like coughing and sniffling.

Thank you. Let me end with a quote, "It's never too late to become what you might have been."

I wish I had heard that, you know when I first quit. What about someone who's already left? And they're considering copywriting? What would you say to them?

Jump right in. Find a trustable - a trusted, reputable coach. I think Copy Chief is probably one of the best, if not THE best. They've got a course called Email Copy Academy. And that would be a good place to start learning the basics, or you could just join their monthly - I'm not trying to be marketing Copy Chief here, it's just I believe in them that much. For about $149 a month, I believe, you can join and take free courses learning copywriting basics, learning how to become a freelancer. So valuable and so affordable. Even if you're low on your budget, that 150 investment is so worth it. I would highly recommend that.

But if you aren't in that position, then just get on people's lists. People have email lists - people who are writing, people who have made it. Learn everything you can for free. Read - there are so many books that you'll see recommended. Just study and study and study. And the other thing is, get out a notebook and start writing. Every day I write three pages. First thing when I wake up, whatever's on my mind, there's no structure. There's no critique, I don't edit, I just write write write for three pages. And sometimes that's pretty hard. (Tania: Yeah.) Usually the beginning is good, and the ending is good, and the middle is just kind of fuzzy. And then throughout the day, if you have a thought, write it down, you might be able to use it someday. If you study other people's writing, and email marketing, for example, you get an email in your inbox from let's say, a pet store that you go to. Study of the structure of the writing. Evaluate, was that useful? Was that powerful? Did that impact me? Did it make me want to click? And start writing things yourself, for companies and, and businesses that you frequent. You can go - I went to my massage therapist, and I said I'm going to start copywriting, can I do a test email for you and see how it does? And she said, yeah, go ahead. And I did that for free. Because I'm building skills. And in exchange, I got a testimonial where she said what a great job I did and what she liked about it.

So immerse yourself in the world that you want. They used to say "dress for the job you want, not the job you have." Have you ever heard that phrase? (Tania: Yeah.) I say immerse yourself in the job that you want. Just surround yourself with the people and the tools and it will become more and more a part of who you are. And you won't be able to say no, you'll just love it so much. At least that's what happened to me.

Yeah, that's fantastic advice. I can attest to everything that she just shared. But also it's funny that just a few minutes ago, you mentioned you're not marketing Copy Chief here. But the funny thing about most of my episodes - well firstly, most of the teachers-turned-copywriters I know are from Copy Chief, and we always somehow end up plugging Copy Chief at the end. It's not planned, it's just like a natural conclusion. Because we have the community, we have the courses and all that. So I didn't ask Kristy to plug anything. (Kristy: No!) It just happens.

When something is a big part of your life, you want everyone to know about it. (Tania: Yeah.) if I discovered a vitamin that instantly gave me perfect health, I would be telling everybody about it. Well, I've discovered a vitamin for my soul. Copy Chief is nourishing my soul and also giving me purpose. So I want everyone to know about it, really.

Yeah. And actually, I'll be writing about you, and all the other teachers turned copywriters that I met in Nashville, this weekend. So whoever's listening, we were all drawn to Nashville, because of Copy Chief. Like, that's just the power of the community. So yeah, it's not a plug. It's just fact. Is there anything else you would like to share before we end the session? This has been great, there's so - I can't wait to write the show notes for this.

There's a phrase called "Imposter Syndrome." If you haven't heard of it, it's where you're doing your job like when I was teaching, and you constantly feel like, I don't know what I'm doing. Someday, they're going to discover that I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to be outed to the world. I felt like that for almost 20 years as a teacher. I had a Master's degree in teaching and all those years of experience and I still felt like I didn't know what I was doing. Part of that is healthy. But in copywriting, I'm learning I don't have Impostor Syndrome because - I'm still learning. If I don't know something - it's that I don't know, I'm in learning mode. But in teaching, I always had that Impostor Syndrome. Don't let that hold you back in your new life. When you're in learning mode, remind yourself you are going to learn this, you are going to get this. If you're committed and you do what it takes, you do what your coach is telling you, you follow the courses, you follow the advice - you can do anything.

I didn't want to cut you off in case that was like a - you know, an important pause.

You can do anything.

Thank you so much for your sharing all - you were very vulnerable. Thank you for sharing that. I didn't know about the bullying. I remember the "thank you" thing because I remember laughing out loud when I first read your post on Copy Chief. But yeah, I'm glad you're out of that situation and that you're in much better hands with us and our community on Copy Chief.

So that wraps it all up. I'm going to drop Kristy's social media and all her links along with this post and we'll see you guys on the next episode of Classroom to Copy.