2:17PM Jun 18, 2022
Okay the Atlanta Planning Advisory Board this is City Council issues of supporting any issue? discussed the board is made up of 25 voting members. Those 25 members are representative of the NPUs it it's hard to get my own person as this kind of warrior so we can petition with the other members who are chairs, delegates or alternates they also help us accommodate citizens base that's quite also just hope that everybody can pick up a copy anyone see anything? Can I get a motion?
if you have a voting member for your NPU
as I call your NPU please say yes or present know you can use that as an excuse to impede you see set me up if you work adults is this is your location Darvin Thurman, present. Hi, how are you? NPU H, NPU I, NPU K? NPU K, Lora Hawk here well, thank you.
Kyle Kessler, NPU M. now. NPU N? Naomi Siodmok, here.
Donovan Dodds, present is
Terry Ross NPU T and voting
Stephanie flowers so be Yes yes.
NPU Z, Sharita Grant. We have 13 so we do have a quorum. Can I get a motion from the floor that the agenda be accepted?
Mr. Martin? Motion to adopt the agenda. Second
motion, seconded to accept the agenda as presented. Has anyone had an opportunity to particularly so
they say May 21 May 21.
May 21 Please make their
way towards the first So, these are the minutes first please take a quick look at questions changing sometimes there are no second best reason to make a motion to approve the meeting minutes. Just change our roster This is now
and if your microphone working or none of the
screen comes up, no different microphones nothing is working
more Yeah, it's hard to hear Star Wars
there's there's a buzz coming from the utility room in the back
do you want chairs up here? I can help you
set up. Well, you just
watch your child knows how many more
this is also a Kobe fan thing Yeah, it is awesome. Because this is okay yesterday
there are those of us who have these running temperature you know, those of us who have these functions just don't talk about the microclimate just a quick something and give you something to rap about. When you sent me a text message yesterday morning. And as soon as the picture put like overwork you're just sitting down but then I'll say and if ever you could get outside is done good as mine was it's good thing about being able to checks as you can do checks. And sometimes they come at a time when you're really just having a really bad day into something. Okay, we have a presentation this morning. First of all, good evening announcements. I don't see any elected officials here. So don't think of having announcements. From the city to get those out. Come back. We have this legal assistant director as most of you know because we sent it to you via email. Council member Amos proposed resolution 20 214 And it is about NPU best practices the resolution actually charged with coming up with some prescribed best practices for NPV. And as such, planning, Mr. Office has already started
on that and
of course, assisting in coming up with recommendations and anything that maybe can be a help in getting this is my understanding that this has to be done. So as she's presenting this morning, if you would jot down anything that you think might benefit in any one of those categories, you should have picked up one of these off the tape. As she's going through the presentation, make your notes on here. So make sure that you get any recommendations to Mr. Hunter All right up checked it off
I have a big mouth so I don't think it is it difficult to hear me but if you just let me know because I can make it even bigger. My name is Leah LaRue on the Assistant Director of neighborhood planning for the city of Atlanta's Department of City Planning. I think I know almost everyone in this room. So we're good there as Ms. Phillipse as president that was stated in May I believe it was May of this year. Councilmember Byron Amos proposed a resolution that was passed through city council calling for the Department of City Planning to work with the Atlanta Planning Advisory Board to produce a set of best practices and possibly a Bill of Rights. For NPU members. This was received it was welcomed by the Department of City Planning because we had already been working on that. So we're really glad that this was asked by city council because it just fueled our work. We frankly it would have probably taken us through the rest of the year to get it done. If it was left up to us because while we thought it was important, it certainly wasn't the top of our priority list. And now that it's compact and powerful it became a priority. We the legislature gave us 90 days to complete this task which we believe will be able to do if at any point you express any concern with the timeline or with the process itself. We will revisit the timeline accordingly and we will certainly discuss with council and he needs to adjust that. So what you have in front of you
forgive me for that.
What you have in front of you is a draft of the What you have in front of you is a draft of the best practices outline. So we've created our team did a little bit of work here. And I guess by by way of background, what I should say is that I've been in this role now for a little over three years. I have been a member of my own NPU for about five years, and I've been acquainted with the NPU system for about 10 years through my work before coming to the city. Before coming to City Hall. I'll put it that way. And so I'm certainly familiar with at this point all 25 and be used and how all 25 operate. I am intimately acquainted with all 20 fives and provide with all 25 sensitive leaders and what I like to talk to people about is the different cultures that exist in these teams. All 29 have a different culture they're they're just not the same. There aren't two of them that are the same. There are two that are alike. There are some that have shared characteristics but none of the 25 are twins or have sets of twins or triplets or anything like that. So it was a fun challenge to keep that in mind as we prepared for our all of the meetings that we've had and all of the discussions that we've had on this. We prioritize protecting the culture of all of the NPUs, maybe protecting is not the best word we prioritize honoring the culture of all of the 25 NPUs we prioritize honoring the flexibility that we want MPs to continue to have as they conduct the business of the city. And we try to incorporate that in our language in all of the notes that we have. What you have in front of you is a draft outline what I provided that intentionally because I want to hear from the Atlanta Planning Advisory Board and from the NPUs what you believe the best practices are, whether it's for your own NPU or for another NPU that you visited or used to be a member of or maybe you attend. Excuse me, maybe you attend multiple NPUs and have some insight and some more than just one. But we left it blank intentionally because we want to hear from you. The at this point the entire draft is flexible. It is simply what you have in front of you is just an outline and for discussion purposes. It is meant for you to review and determine whether there is something big or critical that you think is missing. Or the items within the categories... Excuse me the items within the categories that you think are important that needs to be documented. So I'll go through that real quickly. The first point is NPU health and they're what we think is important is that NPUs perform annual internal reviews or membership polls, and some of you do that. The one that I know the one that I know best is not presently in the room but NPU L conducts an annual poll of their members and they send it out every year. I think it is October November. Don't quote me on that. asking for feedback from the members like what are we doing? Well, what are we not doing? Well, they have specific it's not too long. It's not really it's not something that feels like homework. I think it's maybe eight to 10 questions or something most of them multiple choice or you just fill in, you know what you think, and it gives them a general idea of the sentiments of the members now, we can dig deeply into, you know how effective it is how effective it will be your own NPU whether it will be useful in your own NPU. But of course, it's important to note which I think most of you already know, these are not rules. They're not meant to be rules. They're not meant to be guidelines. They're not being incorporated into city code in any way or at least that's not my understanding as of today, but that's not the intention of the resolution. It's simply the best practice. What do people do that works? Well that works effectively. Some of the measures of performance that I have seen or that we discussed would be an NPU
ability to manage conflict independently. The number of meetings that are timely and efficient that start on time that end on time, and that are actually productive and efficient. Compliance with all the code requirements is certainly a measure that NVQs could use to self evaluate transparent fair and timely elections. And I've said this since 2019. I think the best measure of whether your election was fair and transparent and successful is if nobody had a complaint. That's it. I love to tell the story about my first time going to NPD the first time I went to NPD was for the election. And when I left the meeting, I said to one of my team members, I don't know what just happened but they had an election I truly had no idea what had happened I'm I'm really lost. But the takeaway there was nobody in the room was unhappy. Everybody was really happy with what happened and everybody else understood. I may have been lost but they all understood what happened. And every and they've got a great chair. It's all it's about and that's that. That's kind of I've used that as a measuring stick since then, if the numbers have that is when you are happy with the way it goes and no one has a complaint if everyone feels included, no one feels excluded or no one is reporting that they feel excluded, you know, as well, and that's a good measure. I think that's just my opinion. I think that's a good measure for whether your election is fair, transparent. It's so timely is more objective because it has according to the code. The elections do have to be completed in October or November. That's a good measure because we do have every year at least one of you that does not complete election on time. Informed competent leadership participation in the Atlanta Planning Advisory Board also very objective, record keeping also very objective information sharing any other measures that are deemed appropriate by the MPU including clear, thorough, code compliant recommendations and comments provided to the city. The next item on your MPU health is participation. Obviously, the MPD is that do it well are those that are inclusive that make it easy for residents. And by the way, when I use the word residents, I'm using the codes definition of residents which is people that live there and people that represents businesses, agencies, organizations, etc. So obviously making it easy for people to for residents to participate in. It's also a good practice for those MPs that have representative government style to allow some way for members who are not representatives. To participate. Whether it's by public comment period at the end, or just allowing people to raise their hands and even though they don't vote because it's representative, however, if you want to do that, we definitely think that that's a good practice. And at the end of the day, the residents shouldn't be prohibited from participating in the MPD process barriers to participation should be minimized where possible. Next on the list is conflict resolution. Probably self explanatory, but I will say that it's a good idea to have a conflict resolution LLC. For clause or statement in your bylaws or a reference to a rule of border whether it's Robert's Rules, which most of the MPs use or another rule of order that that has a conflict resolution policy. There should be some mention of it, or a mention of using Robert's Rules in lieu of a policy. Um, fair elections. Of course we have a whole section for elections because it is often a source of angst within the MP system. Never fails that every year there is some sort of issue with elections at some point somewhere for someone. So we definitely have some ideas around how MP things can ensure and we cover all of this in our election integrity course by the way, but how MPs can ensure that no one is left out of the elections process. And that everything is because
I've certainly witnessed some interviews where the first time you hear about an election is at the election. The first time you hear that there are candidates for office is at the election when you're told here's the ballot, this is who you're voting on. There's no competition. It's one candidate per per slot. This is who you're voting on, and go ahead and vote. We've seen that in fact I see it every year and in certain places. It's obviously not a best practice. I will say if it weren't for those votes, and no one is no one has a complaint. Everybody's good with it. So be it it's still not a best practice though. Bylaws review, definitely some problems around certain bylaws and there is a way to do that. For sure. So we've got some recommendations there. leadership transition. You know, one of those issues that isn't a problem in every MPU particularly because some of us have the same leadership year after year. And then you have those GE comes to mind. For example, there are others that just came to mind you have those that have a transition and a very smooth transition period, a very supportive outgoing leader, who is who gets it and wants to help the incoming leader. But then you have those that have some sort of contention. So we've got some ideas around preventing that for sure. Education and training. If I talk about it at all, I'm gonna get on a soapbox. So I'll leave that to the imagination to the imagination, but I do think that those that serve in those that volunteer to serve in these elected roles and in certain committee roles as well should be committed to participating in any educational opportunities that are available to them because it strengthens the MPU if for any other reason than to strengthen it. So number two, the second item is communications. We talked about information sharing and the importance of distributing relevant information. MPU chairs those of you that are in the room, whether you are a chair or have been a chair, you know that you get a lot of email, a lot of information, not just from the city either. We get people all over Atlanta that asked us every year for our contact list, and they send you stuff you got stuff from more than you get stuff from the state of Georgia that stuff from Fulton County or the caption. You get a things from APS, you get things from random nonprofit organizations, you get all kinds of email, and some of it is to be shared with the body. And sometimes it is to that very, very well and others could do better in that area. So we're encouraging information share. We're also encouraging record keeping. It's critical record keeping is critical. There is no requirement a code that NPU there's no point going to code the employees keep minutes or submit minutes to DCP. What I always tell people is if MPs record minutes and Kip a first of all, if MPs record minutes, they should send them to us. If they do send them to us, and we have them we'll make them available upon request. It's one less thing for you to worry about too, because they're coming to people who don't get into these minutes. Nine times out of 10 will come to us first and we'll say you know be the rehab and here you go or we don't have it but contact this person and then they'll contact that person and they may or may not have minutes it's a good idea to keep minutes even for your historic storytelling. It's for no other reason. But obviously for reasons of recording the actual vote and the recommendations that you're making as well. And I can tell you try to rely on memory is not a good idea. There are some people that have excellent memory there are some people I can call and even in this room that I said Okay, so there was a three year thing in 2011. And it was such a such atrophic Oh yeah, I remember that. I can tell you all about it. Sometimes that happens, but not often. Let me tell you, it's a good idea to have it because these some of these projects never go away. I would say that on average about once a month. once maybe twice a month, I get a call or an open records request from someone who is seeking something that is over 10 years old. It happens fairly regularly. So it's a good idea to get minutes and we have some recommendations around that as well. Transparency Oh, sorry, moved on to meetings. Number three. Is that transparency and this is a tricky one. But certainly one of the things.
Good practices that we've seen is that NPUs are embracing the spirit of the Georgia Open Meetings Act as much as they can. It's not a requirement for NPUs but it's a good idea to embrace the spirit of the Georgia Open Meetings Act like understanding why the Open Meetings Act exists and why your meeting should be open. And obviously they are required by code to be open to the public. They should see. Meeting notices should be made public if there's special meetings committee meetings, all of that stuff. People should know that the MPU is having a special meeting and not just the folks that regularly come into the room. If there's a database that whole database should be notified. names and contact information of leadership should be easily accessible. And as far as best practices go, I've seen this in a couple of movies. I think it's a really good idea that a list of eligible voters should be published and maintained every month. People should not wait until their meetings to learn that they're not eligible to vote. Or worse yet, which I have seen multiple times. Debate right then and there in the meeting whether or not they should be able to vote. I see that all the time. Like as recently as this year. You have people saying Oh, I'm sorry, I did see your hand but you can't vote. And then there's big debate about whether or not they came to three meetings or four meetings and all of that stuff. If you publish a list in advance, but who's eligible to vote? You can sort all of that stuff out later. And of course, the simple meeting agenda should be publicized as well. And I mean beyond what planning does by putting it on our website. Meetings, of course, meeting efficiency starting on time. Not amending the agenda during the meeting unless there's a motion to do so. Really bad idea to those places where the agenda is just a suggestion and not an actual meeting. You should definitely easier agenda because I've seen lots of problems around that when not. We recommend using unanimous consent for routine items like agendas, minutes, adjournment, things that are routine and you know that there is no there is no opposition or it appears that there was no opposition or even those items were the neighborhood recommends it the zoning committee recommends it there wasn't a single question in the room and everybody seems eager and in support event to discuss it two months in a row. And everybody's happy. You can certainly use anonymous consent for that as well, particularly if you're in an entity that has a lengthy agenda. Those that have multiple items, of course you consider consent agendas. We've got some recommendations around virtual meetings, lots of those some discussion around managing conflict topic. And then under number four, which we modified to specifically pull out the CVP pro recommendation from a Pax executive committee we added that specifically and I don't remember whether that is is the version that you have. Okay, perfect. Great. Thank you. So we talked about processing applications about reviewing applications, finalizing those recommendations and the CDP recommendations and I will tell you the biggest kind of takeaway there. If I had to summarize it in one sentence is that your recommendation should be code compliance period and the biggest feedback that I have from interviews are from the city rather as it relates to MPs recommendations is that they're often not poking fun, and they're not productive because they're not. So that's the gist of it. The next step for us is to receive your feedback. Next month in July, I will present a
draft to the executive committee to a pass executive committee and incorporate any additional feedback. So I'm sorry, I got ahead of myself. Over the next few weeks. I'll be receiving feedback from all of you and from The APAB Executive Committee and from the NPUs and from anyone else who says hey, you should have included this or you said this, but this really isn't something that MPs are interested in anyway, you should consider taking that off. Whatever it is we'll be receiving all of that feedback over the next couple of weeks. incorporating it into a draft, building that out and presenting that Apex Executive Committee in July, and then to APAB full body in July, the third Saturday monthly leading into that. From there, we'll continue having the review period over the next few weeks after that meaning and incorporate any final feedback that we have will circulate internally to the powers that be the gods or goddesses the kings and queens of 55 Trinity and then we're not on TV I got to take advantage of the moment. I'm kidding. But yeah, carefree. So we'll circulate it there and be prepared to present to the cdhs Community Development Human Services Committee of Atlanta city council in August. It is my hope that the presentations at cvhs will be August 23. But there's a possibility that it will be August 9. I don't control that. You could but I don't control that. And we'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll be ready to go or at least it's my expectation that we'll be ready August that's it for me if I can dialogue
with you for just one second.
I think this is great. It's being something's being put in place. divided on the standard to really understand that this is a communication from the Department of City Planning to the EU, essentially, I mean, conceptually, does that work? That's my first question.
Okay, so that's a good question. I have not considered it, frankly. And I think that it probably would be a communication from planning to the MPU
are another way of saying it may be time for you because you might not feel like thority to do that. But maybe from the commissioner herself. So if not from the mayor, from the commissioner, if that's the fact that that's the test might be fine if it were because I think one of the gaping holes in this whole system is that there's no single place you can go. If you walk in code from Minnesota, and you say what is this new system and should I be a part of it? It takes you like four years to figure out our what, or whether you can give a damn you know, and it would be great if the city or the City Planning Commission to document where it's simply a matter of an hour. Figure out what it is. And if that's the I think all of these sorts of particulars, all of these kinds of instructional best practices. Details are really critical. I compliment you for doing that. What's missing is a preamble. You know, a sort of an overview sort of thing. And I was just sitting there listening and I was thinking you know maybe that should come from the commissioner. I mean, I'm not saying let's go to the commissioner and ask them. If you come in and you get this documents and get the idea that commissioner has authored it somehow and it might start off with a preamble it says
what is your purpose?
And why do you exist? So it works, not something that's fluffy. So everybody can be happy and feel like they're participating? In the life of the city kind of crap. And actually, what is your purpose? quayside legally or whatever? Right? What's your purpose? Why do you exist? What does the Department of City Planning expect you to do? And what does your constituent community expect? And then how did you meet those responsibilities? And then your thing here it's just a suggestion. And I think this is a great opportunity to create a clarifying document that might have a life way beyond this year or next year. And that's why it's
so I appreciate that Mr. Raugh. Two things I want to say in response. One is, I have to give credit while again, my team was working on this already. So it was a welcome resolution, but I have to give credit to Councilmember Amos for lighting the fire under us for one to get it done. And also for for demonstrating the council has an interest in the FPV system and that there is some support for the work that we're doing. That it tell you since we're not on TV, it feels good. It feels good to know that there's support for this work that we're doing. I agree with you in that there's we have a great opportunity to show, to clarify to document and to communicate with the public exactly what the NPU system is. There are multiple ways of getting that done. We have already begun working on we produced a couple of videos. One just made it to my inbox yesterday that I'm reviewing this weekend. We have a class that answers those questions and that video was on YouTube as well available for people to watch at their leisure. And right now I've got two interns this summer and one of the projects that they're working on is producing info cards on all kinds of different subjects info cards on zoning info cards on special events. Process on the life license review board and alcohol licensing process and info cards on the NPD system itself, what it is, what it does, etcetera. So I think there are 10 of them in total. But I agree with you I think that this is a good part of that whole toolkit and will will be a helpful tool and communicated so
far that very generous explanations can be used and what I'm really getting at here, maybe this is a document that's handed out every year on the very first meeting of every EU, by the EU, to anybody that's in that room. And it's kind of a welcome to the immune system from the commissioner. And here's what you put your info that's the difference here is not that you guys aren't already doing a lot of work to explain what's missing this piece of paper you will walk away
fully agree. What are the plugins sorry, another thing that we're working on is the MP library, which will be on our website it will link to every MP use bylaws. We thought we were doing something when we think it to the bottom of the agendas. We realized that people don't look at the agenda. So that wasn't helpful, but we're going to list them out on our website and we're also going to list out all of those other resources I talked about the info cards and explanations on the different processes. But this item is well we've blanked on the website too and certainly a paper copy or a separate PDF could be emailed or provided to people as a as a welcome to the building. Thank you. I saw Morrison next I don't know if anybody else was
I had two questions and one suggestion in mind with Mr. oz. Comments. The questions are number one, you identified this as an outline and that there is a draft when will that draft be shared with us?
I said that this is a draft
and then we're building out a draft.
Is that what you say there is? Well, you said that this is an outline the draft outline, okay. And so there is no already existing document.
We're building that out with feedback. That's one take the notes. Okay.
All right. And when would that be share with
a friend Ahab's executive committee's July?
Okay, I just wanted to state for the record. And then the very last part the comprehensive development plan, recommendations you identified that there was a need for code compliance. And I was just curious, who educates on code compliance? what is the aspect of what are best practices for that and that sort of thing. Is there a current entity in the city that educates
NPU University has all of those classes including the CDP affect classes for 2023. So we do have the CDP class as well. And the classes on the ZRB and BZA and the other processes we've had difficulty getting for the sake of transparency, we've had a ton of difficulty significant difficulty getting instructors to reduce class on, on on code compliance recommendations for special events and the rights of licensed alcohol licenses. But all the other every other topic that would make a recommendation on this covered University.
Thanks. And the third thing was just to build on Mr. Raugh's comments. I correct me if I'm wrong, that you identified that this document should reflect what we commit to any individual to our role. And I would build on that and ask also the DCP identify what their role is to each NPU as well and put that in the document. What a reasonable expectation, best practice as as what are reasonable expectations, something that can be shared with the NPUs and anyone who comes to an NPUs. And has no knowledge of the practice beforehand.
QUESTION So I think this is phenomenal overall and shout out to interiors that are working on that and you know, I really advise with those reinflates or whatever that they're producing, exactly to be shared. Not only here, but for the interviews too, to spread out to
Oh, our goal is to print 1000s of 10s of 1000s. Absolutely, yeah, we want we plan to print those widely. Right. We've got one of them that is currently in review. We commissioned a review and once we get that signed off this week, it will be sensitive. For sure. jetski I don't
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the recommendation being code compliant. Some of our codes are just pretty crappy, after only regular so if you if a recommendation falls outside the code, it's probably because the code is lacking or is missing. Just doesn't describe well, and Jim finds those gaps. My boy, God bless. So I think having a black and white best practice that says to be within the code really defeats the purpose of the MPU because one of the reasons why we do exist is to provide an opinion on how we feel about things. Sometimes it falls outside that black and white.
Let me clarify. So I probably should have stated that differently. But it's not about it's not a recommendation that it can use should comply with the code in their recommendations. It's an it's a recommendation that if you are to vote no. On an alcohol license, your recommendation has to be within these reasons these criteria or you're going to articulate some other explanation and and identify or emphasize that it doesn't match with the code. Because the problem that we see regularly like daily is that people say there's no point in participating in the NPU because the city doesn't do what we say anyway. And what and what the real problem is, is that the LRB, for example, is not going to typically support the recommendation of the NPU unless it complies with the
code. Exactly. And I think that's the language that needs to be used. Not a F, a few words that just say B code code. Absolutely. No special events in particular. Yep. That ordinates bad.
So in my notes, it is filled out that way. I didn't communicate that just in the interest of time. I didn't want to go through every single word that I have in my notes, but absolutely, I think I think we're on the same page. Everybody,
okay. One, what I don't see in here is anything about NPU funding or finances, and that contributes to the NPU health and so that's very important, and that needs to be included in there. Also the bylaws portion, there should be some processes recommended for best practices for handling finances and funding. To CDP you guys, and the city needs to be there needs to be some accountability in this document. And I'll go specifically to the CDP the comprehensive development plan last year was a joke, and they basically certainly did it to you and they got away with it was five years from now I'm sure they're going to try it again. And so some accountability needs to be there because we only get a bite at that Apple every five years. And last year, they just leapfrog right over us basically and do what they wanted to do, which was unacceptable and I'm still not accepting it in 2021 and 2022. So I think that should be incorporated in this document as well. And then the other portion would be about the applications themselves. DCP sometimes does not get the applications to the NPUs in the timely manner that is currently recommended on the books. And so that puts undue pressure on the NPUs use to come up with recommendations without enough time to actually review the application and do the homework and the legwork. Of course they don't care. They just want a recommendation. And so DCPS accountability for DCP and the city of Atlanta should be incorporated in this document as well. In my humble opinion. Other than that I welcome this I think this is brilliant I do think that this is a brilliant tip to get some type of regulation in the process without infringing on the autonomy of the NPU from the city of Atlanta and so I support it overall, but I think the things that just mentioned are important.
I appreciate that and I will tell you we had some spirited discussion, as most of you know, but to those that are new in the room or that I don't have the pleasure of knowing for a few years, our entire team and I'm always proud of this. So yes, you'll hear me say it 1000 times our entire team lives in the city of Atlanta and we are all members, active members of our own. attend our meetings, not just by sitting in the room. But we participate to the extent that we're allowed, you know, you don't want conflicts of interest, but we participate as best we can in our NPU for taxpayers and we care we care about all of the same stuff that y'all care about. And we advocate at it in a different way. Because we can't advocate the way y'all can advocate. But we can advocate on the things that matter to go in our own way on the inside, which is what we do, taking putting Saturdays and Sundays and holidays and all that jazz i We have stood in debate on the topic, because I know y'all so well I knew somebody was I didn't anticipate you i I'll tell you I thought it was after. But I knew that someone would say well, what about DCP? This is all stuff for the NPU to do, but when DCP going to do. And I don't I don't necessarily think unless we're talking about figuring out a preamble like Mr. Raugh reference. I don't necessarily think that this is the document to this is the place to document DCP responsibility. That's just my personal
opinion. I agree.
But I do think that we could figure something out in terms of a preamble and I did point out in I think you'll have the P I don't have this in the little explanation that DCP is committed to providing whatever support and resources in the US need in order to align with those practices. Obviously, I'm not one of those kings and queens I talk to but I can advocate I can knock some doors down and I'm pretty good at that. So I hear you, Mr. Ross. Donovan to read
absolutely. So thank you for this document. outline for this document. I think it's really I think one of the things that I would encourage the conversation around would be about conflict resolution and something
of all people
everything what confidence what do you do about nothing but
conflict resolution and really when we're looking at what I would like to see is almost like some type of opt in that you can have when we vote on bylaws every year. Maybe a best practice recommendation or something to agree to some type of meetings or to agree to for the MPU every year to say hey, we want to allow mediation through the Department of City Planning or mediation through another entity in order to resolve conflict because there is no accountability. And I think you as a whole agrees that hey, if a conflict should arise this entity will. We will agree that this entity will adjudicate this issue that I think that would be really helpful.
Basically it's not adjudicate that right now
in Florida. But without usurping the process what I envisioned and it works in lots of organization, in your bylaws that you've designated third party arbitrator, how are we doing? They're safe because they're 25. We didn't dare say start looking amongst the MPs that you see here and see if you can get a coalition that you can direct in your bylaws should conflict arise. And I think that's everyone. I don't think many of us have that kind of cop, we put a clause that specifically in I think the CPSA may have a kind of laissez faire attitude. I don't know if that's what they're saying per se, but the thrust of laissez faire in terms of the I think the word I keep hearing is autonomous or autonomous body, there's no you are your own jurisdiction. So per the bylaws we should conceive of. Again, I start right here where you have all these impedes people that you seem to respect the way they think the way they run their NPU and then you folks in your executive group, start to name and conference with those participants, they would be willing to form a coalition to conflict, but name it in your mind.
Or perhaps it could be an entity that will be underneath. Hmm,
no, I think just Well, that's, that's possible to
discuss that for most years. I don't think that I have an appetite, but I'm not speaking at all. In any case, I do want to point out that I think that I think what will be incredibly helpful, which has not been done before that I know isn't letting the public know letting the members know what their rights are. That's really where a lot of this conflict comes in a lot. of times, or at least the calls that I get I'm not speaking specifically about I mean, system wide the calls that I get. I typically because people don't know what their rights are like what do you do with a chair that bla bla bla bla bla, you make a motion like wait, what do you mean make it you know what I mean? But people don't know that people don't know Robert's Rules. And I certainly don't think that the city should be expecting lay members to be experts on Robert's Rules, but But what we can do is provide info cards that say, here are some common motions that you can make to accomplish this, if you're trying to accomplish this. Here's what you could do or if this is the problem that you're having, here's what you can do to solve that problem. So I just think the Bill of Rights will go a long way. And I'm not saying I'm not I'm not saying that that is helpful. Instead of conflict resolution. I would say that I think that that would be a helpful component of conflict resolution to read this next.
So I think what I'm hearing is a few things and one is I'm hearing that there has to be some type of welcome pack for people that choose to participate in a path or wanting to find out about a path or even so there has to be some type of welcome packet, really defining what the purpose is. And I feel like that may be a separate from what we're discussing here, which is the best practices, right. So I think I'm hearing both, which is we definitely do need this preamble and this purpose of HPUS and all of that. But when it comes to the MPU best practices, my question is, right now this is an outline correct from what I understand. You have kind of a more old version of this. No, this is this is it.
This is the sensing session where
the time she's not getting into it and
can I say? What I've given you is a draft outline so that you all so that I could collect your feedback and build this out and present a draft best practices document to apex executive committee in July and to apex full body in July. What I have, which I referenced in this conversation and kind of read from are my own rough notes from my meetings with my staff. So, two different things, but there's no hidden drafts somewhere that that Nobody's allowed to speak.
I want to be very clear. So last time I got the executive meeting from what I understood. There was a more on longer version of what you were presenting at that time. From what I understood today what was maybe going to happen and maybe I'm wrong was that this was more than just an outline that you were going over today. But maybe at some point in the future in our inboxes we will see kind of this full version that's there for us to review. Is that what I'm understanding?
Yes. Are you to ally executive committee? I fully expect that we'll have a full version for you auditor view for your July before your July executive board.
And that will maybe include a lot of again, the comments that have already been said here but I'm guessing a lot of things that you have already been drafting or putting together that maybe you hadn't fully gotten into the details for today.
Yes, I think if I'm understanding what you're saying the answer is yes. Okay. Thank you.
Next question. Let's clarify how this process works. This was a resolution that came from councilmember payments. It has to go back before the CHS. Committee. Once we have given her all of our recommendations. They've compiled it. reviewed it. We have approved. Okay, I sent you all the actual resolution that Councilman Raines proposed. I will rescind this as we do have to remember. I want you to read the resolution so you'll understand exactly what he has asked the DCP to do and us to do them as we're working on it at the executive committee meeting. And at our July meeting. He really mind that by August. We have to have something completed for her to take to the CHS committee. And I think I assume that the way the process works, once it is gone cvhs They are approval or whatever it goes to full council does
not necessarily know if they want to document it as a form of communication and it would but I don't know what councilmember Amundsen intention is for the best practices.
machine I believe what's next.
So what I heard from initially started talking about today was that we will have definitely best practice document August, potentially but most likely not.
The know I'm planning to x s that because I actually forgot to discuss my notes about the Bill of Rights. And I've got some rough notes somewhere here on the Bill of Rights. It is my intention that the whole package will be submitted together that we will provide to cvhs best practices and an MP member's bill of rights at the same time. That's my intention. Hopefully oversight forgot to mention it because it's two separate documents completely, but I do have notes on that as well.
My concern is that they coordinate and they do two different things and may not be enough time. So let's see. Because we don't have a draft to start documenting or give me feedback. Well, that feels like one time that I'm okay with that. But I think that we need to take just as much time, effort and energy into it because I think some of the things that were mentioned by Mr. Wilde such as a preamble, that is more appropriate. And also what was mentioned in terms of I think it was more or less about what DCP do but also not just CP, city government, how we interact. I think that when you think about your bill of rights, that also tells you my right to touch my protections, right? In terms of what I can expect. Where's the mind if there is one that makes a little more clear that you want to build for something? And I think that there's some of that the questions that came up will be answered by that. But I guess marketing started as an opportunity, effort and also thoughts behind that. We put into that as distance practice, but they aren't cheap doesn't lead into very
different things. They do two different things. I am not in a hurry, period. Like I said, it was our thought that we'd get it done by the end of the year at the beginning of the year. I told my two that this was one of many things. We had a staff retreat and we laid out our plan for the year I told them what we wanted to get done by the end of the year this was one of them. So I'm not gonna hurry personally and I don't want y'all to feel bad energy like no we got to get it done in an hour. It doesn't make a difference to me. But with that said, I think I would like to hold that conversation until July. And the reason I say that is that we may not be on the same page on the same page for the Bill of Rights. What I am envisioning is not what I think you might be envisioning. And I want to be on your page. I'm not saying you got to come to my page. I want to be on your page, but I don't think we're envisioning since there
are questions. I know what do we have to do versus what we can expand on. And I'm not sure if the Bill of Rights is not okay. We could do one focus and get a good let's break this. Yeah. And moving into the rights
Yes, but I don't want to but yes, you're absolutely right. My hope is that the Bill of Rights is the size of an info card that it's real clear. It's not a real word. It's not a whole bunch of technical jargon and explanations and all that stuff. Just real. You have a right to vote you have a right to come to to file a complaint you have a right to appeal a decision of the chair you have a right to this you have a right to the things that for me, it would be a laundry list of every single complaint that I've gotten from a member of someone that has felt disenfranchised or left out excluded or they felt like their chair was abusive or the process is abusive. They're not making sure that MPU members and that people who would be members if they didn't think the process was screwy, making sure those people know what their rights are. That's that's kind of my vision for it. But I do want to talk about
this after the document. I think that's probably something that was mentioned by Terry, we're voting on licenses. What
are you want your rights as a juggler to make assistance, but also there is a part of it that comes from government to enter the request. We want your advice on this. And I think what he was saying to those accounts that he feels like because of the way the process is it does not feel like there's enough time, therefore to get a target as well. If there's not enough time, what do you really care what I think so carefully, maybe try to address something like that with the Bill of Rights.
I don't think we do. I don't I really think that you're talking about two different things. I think that the an MP use rights or maybe rights is not even the right word for that. But I think we're we're conflating a members rights with an MP use like an MP who has a right or should have a right to take time to review application so that they can make informed recommendations. They should have a right. Is that something that belongs to them member's bill of rights? I don't know. Which is why I said I think we should have this conversation separately. Because I just don't know where else
to to get in. I think the compelling right now is the due process of the app. I don't believe there and within city governments may be failures in getting it in a timely manner to where it is so that I think that's a compelling argument with deep processing city and sued all the time. We make an assert that I wanted to go back to earlier the with Tarik said about
long friendships that don't commonly understand that the person the applicant has rights and there is a timeline associated. But I will say that applicants right this will work for you as you need to be used right to my opinion. And if someone messes up in the middle no matter what it is, that's a problem. And it says a broad term, whoever and both sides have the right to have to
listen. Absolutely the problem ultimately, but the lack of timeliness is sent down needs to give you the problem really becomes that the citizen because they're not in it and they're unable to engage in an informed opinion on the issue. Because of the inability to see it. But again, it's always a balancing act. I don't support to see these failures, any more than anybody else's feelings. But that's what I've seen more often. That's what happens is the mean sometimes it's a timeliness of a volunteer and either getting it disseminated from that dissemination but back to what Terry was saying earlier that I had somewhat of a disagreement with many felt with the MP use the 2021 mandate of submission at the CDP that we were misled. That jumped up the gate by saying this is just going to be a tweaking there's going to be a wholesale revisit in 22. But many of us were smart enough to know when we looked at those policies. He never can tell what will happen. We We submitted a very comprehensive document. I think there were those who did not in good faith listening to what was being put out by the city. But moreover, I think folks who were really in the know and understood the machinations of city government. Those folks saw that for Wilkie legislation, when they saw that Peroni legislation, I think that's my opinion. Many were motivated like going like, Wait a minute. Wait a minute, this is pretty draconian here. So my opinion. I'm very grateful, my really, we labored long and we came up with a much more comprehensive document that will not have to be tweaked this year. And I'm not sure that tweaking is still taking place this year. That's what we were told that.
Of course, it's my understanding.
So I think the due diligence is in part back at the NPD level, having enough insight into again the machinations of the city, to know when you are insecure, that you better go ahead and put forth your best effort. Now again, we're all volunteers. That's the bottom line and suddenly, you know, that's no excuse, but you know, no monies to support the MPU volunteer labor you
may not get, and we're not experts, and
we're not experts. So So, so there was the other component of that as well as that. I clearly believe said that there does have to be compliance when you're talking about licensing issues, and due process. I think someone else that may have been lower that said that. That's the whole purpose of a post Debbie that said that the whole purpose of our policies. Were telling you this is what we want, this is what we wish for. So we redirect the current policies and ordinances support that. That's that's how I understood I think that's what I was gonna say that the CDP is our wish list. It's, it's our protection, hopefully based on intelligence and information and a real understanding, but
it's for a very
narrow part of quality of
special events are not addressed. It is a major pain.
And I want to tell you something, but there's been some movement especially Yes, most there's been movements, especially any, any other questions for me because you don't have an agenda. Yes.
Best practices, when, with this set of best practices, in delivering goods to city council. Revenue recommendations are we going to address when these best practices are in conflict with with the vibrancy and the bylaws
to make sure I understand the question our week our week is planning I assume going to address or
are very the business is to document and address you know, these these best practices
which we know then that don't
know the answer is no. Right now today, answer was no.
And that agent is classically the issue enforcement no matter what policy you put out there out enforcement I was interpreted.
Let me also find out though, that that's best practice in and of itself is subjective. It may be our opinion or our collective opinion of what is best, but it may not work best for interesting facts. And that's up to me for us to decide. And by NPU x I mean the body the voting, it's up to the voting body to say I make a motion or we're determining that our bylaws need to align with every item in this best practices document or we've reviewed this thoroughly. Our committee of the committee has reviewed this document and we've determined that our bylaws have to incorporate items 117 and 32 or whatever that's completely up to the
that's in the in the text.
But he was saying that a lot of us that even the bylaws sometimes are in conflict. How do you how do you source clear language in the bylaws? It's yeah, that's why I think that third party arbitration, get folks who do this who are other MPs and let them do the decision making because
back when I was first in politics as a level of
conflict takes away this and so what is particularly cool particularly when they drag people don't
continue to get behind in time. Let's take your questions.
So in so I heard especially meant so this has been brought to my attention this week that Bob may be under application review. For example, Old Fourth Ward is having an issue that middle five points on part of your business association. And they're having an issue with out of towners coming into applying for events, especially event
everybody has their issues. Yeah. Anybody that had any events in their community empathy issue.
Do you know where I can bring this to? I just thought about that.
Yeah. I'll plug you into the meeting we're having on July 1, I think with the business associations want to block out dates, if that's even No, no, no, that's not know that. So that's not relevant to this document. And it's a whole separate conversation that is are having and I think I wouldn't be I'm not saying that AIPAC wouldn't be interested because I really think that AIPAC would be interested and the NVQs in particular are definitely interested. We've had a ton of I've reported last month on the listening tour. I was thrilled, excited, grateful, relieved to hear special events come up in so many of the conversations with my Commissioner so that she's hearing it from other people, not just me and right, from the people that actually live this stuff, and I didn't slip anybody $20 To say it magically and it was wonderful. At that same time. A colleague of mine in the Office of Housing Community Development, had already been working since last year on an initiative to incorporate business associations or to empower business associations to participate in the interview process. Many of them feel left out or are left out for various reasons and various MP views. And part of that work led us to the special events, conversation. So we actually have a meeting this week. Present a full
full proposal to leadership,
which is not going to be an overnight fix, but it's definitely going to include some code recommendations that will empower and protect
people can I bring like the president of five point
she's already under but they're already me. At this point, I just love you into that meeting. I think it's July 1, but you know we have the same I live in a community where your park and we have a big name corporation that's doing half a million dollar event in the market and literally contributing nothing to this community at all. All over.
You all for your input. Thank you. One last thing. I think everybody here has my email address if you don't is L the room at Atlanta. ga.gov l l a r e and Atlanta ga.gov. If you have any sort of input feedback, thoughts, ideas, questions, anything that didn't come out today for you think of later or whatever, please feel free to email me or call me Thank you. Thank you
so we can take a look at where everybody can have a better feel for making some changes.
Absolutely. And I didn't, I wouldn't, but I was typing. We're talking so I think so much.
Okay, it's couple of days. From now on, all the resolutions will be voted on. We have to keep an accurate record of this based upon the way that we are submitting those resolutions down to claiming to be submitted to the city council. So starting today, as we vote on resolutions, in fact, as we vote on motions and or resolutions, our parliamentarian minister will be writing down your vote is going to be attached to that resolution and submitted with the actual resolution for submission to city council. The reason for that is you're supposed to be functioning pretty much the same way as the council. And whenever votes are taking resolutions for ordinances. That Roll Call is attached so you shouldn't do it. Okay. We have four resolutions on your agenda today. Hopefully all got copies for we already have one that is ready for discussion. That is resolution 0030506 and 07. For first reads today. Read them. If you have any quick questions on today we can work on Castro, but they will actually be ready to be voted at our next meeting in July. But we will try to give you at least 30 days to be able to do your research and come back with questions. And then the closing committee will have an opportunity to see how they feel and maybe make whatever suggestions as corrections can't hear you
just gonna ask us asking Madam Chair if she would let the body know that cdhs meets regularly and deep dive into parsing those resolutions so that folks really want to understand and probably pick up on drafting. So Jim, can you speak I was just wondering,
not just cdhs own meetings, making resolutions, those committees will have committee meetings. And you
definitely asked to have those movies that you can make so you can
work out the resolutions and by the time they get to executive a lot of voices and a lot of minds have put thought into and we can make sure that what we submit into the city council is something that we can expect them to incorporate into perhaps future ordinances or future resolutions. So yeah, that's for all permits. Alright, so we're gonna start with resolution 2204. That is the first two meetings. This one is for our two minute discussion. And it was drafted I think by corresponding Secretary Cha just making breakfast. So I'm sorry, Mini. Apologize. So are you going to speak on Vista? Actually,
Lora Hawk is going to do the presentation handle the q&a
and understand calm the version that we created for you all she's made some corrections officer she's gonna put those corrections to five minutes of discussion. How did you
face it to everybody should have the copies of the edits that were recommended there? Mainly. I think Kyle's corrected all my Scriveners errors. And because I've typed out the Atlanta planning advisory board a short to that too. The main gist of it they're aligned.
First started by introducing your resolution and putting out this video some new members.
Okay. It's a resolution calling for Mayor Andrea Dickens to allow Atlanta Planning Advisory Board to meet in a hybrid manner. The last part would be probably the thick of it now therefore be it resolved by the membership of the Atlanta planning advisory board in the city of Atlanta, Georgia. The AICPA calls Mayor Andre Dickens to amend future executive orders to explicitly state that AIPAC and its committees may meet in a hybrid manner of the virtual and in person meetings. Furthermore, AIPAC calls upon the Atlanta city council to make any related modifications to municipal code that would prohibit hypertension. So that's the gist of it. The changes that were made like separate largely largely acronyms, and things, but on line five, Kyle, I think if you can see the written in red, they're made more accurate identification of which executive order it pertains to, and then in blue there for the second line. From the very bottom included, May. So that gives us a little bit of flexibility
before to start taking questions that of course, the executive order under which we started having to go in person meetings came from the beat, but the primary force that we are operating is the open meetings. Okay. So there's that line in there about having the City Council will read a lot about having the City Council on
April, AICPA calls in from the Atlanta city council to make any related modifications to that would prohibit Tribrid meetings.
I'm not sure whether that should further the City Council actually work. Changes to anything because it's the Open Meetings Act is a state law. So I think that needs to be reworded to indicate that you want to ask the city council to make necessary recommendations to the state legislature. Well, go ahead,
actually. A big part of the revision for the last one was to incorporate virtual meetings not only know about me, was pretty much silent. So I will read state law but it's actually does not speak specifically to virtual assistant is the components present is still allow for public discussion. He's also so also making sure we have those opportunities, which we have been doing for the last two years. So I would argue that it's relevant and it's timely because what I
wanted to get to talked about this in order to be able to do it, something has to happen on the state level to the meetings,
right. So I will say that's technically not true because because you simply cannot meet in the state doesn't say
was legislation passed by Georgia Association, House Bill 98. That enabled municipalities all across the state to aid in keeping with the Open Meetings Act. And that is what has enabled the City of South Fulton to continue to meet each release the DeKalb county needs virtually or privately in
this case that that needs to be the last thing you need to reference that house and ask the city council. Well, I mean, I don't want us to send something that they're not going to get because, you know, you know, their mindset right down the street there last month. I told him what his mindset was that he was operating on. Open
and he could continue to do so the Open Meetings Act does not address those things. So therefore, there's no need to address it. Here in a path is what I'm saying.
I'm not an expert. But there may be a clause in our code but I know pretty sure that there's not going to be the state.
That is convinced. But if there isn't enough code, it is up to city council to initiate that change. Because that will be the barrier. There is nothing from the state convention.
Did you find anything I
had done. Say that. This does exist. It says it can exist. They would they can show
two things on that and I'm speaking loudly to this audience, right. So this is calling for the air to emit future executive orders. We only have executive order this series of executive orders is related to the pandemic, right. So this is not saying in perpetuity. Everything has to change. We always have to allow aggregates but at least for now, while we're still under Executive Order, which based upon the GA news. It says during states of emergency, anybody can meet the challenges the executive order says basis shall meet in person. So what we're trying to do is make sure that if that was not some intention, which the mayor stated last time, he wasn't trying to make a new person that he gets covered to the waterfront to say I'm not trying to force a map to the last sentences. They're very similar to many City Council resolutions. ordinances, it says here, there has to be something that conflict with this change. Right. So there is one section of code that says the meeting shall be open to the public, right. And then there's other sort of stuff related to basins. So if the law department determines there's something that might be in conflict with the mayor doing executive order to allow we'd have to be virtually the council looks at that, too. So if we get the mayor to do the right thing, but a lot of parks don't want some pickup. We're also sort of tagging on a council, can you take some action to address anything that might exist? We're not saying that something does exist. So that might exist. Let's take care of everybody in the standoff. See loss, we're no longer dependent. We are dependent and we still have executive orders those executive order that was been issued since March 2020. Every three days basically the mayor issues new executive orders at first he was sitting on his closed bases are all being virtually Dennis starting in February. He has issue or success basis shall return to be conversing, which is what he's brought us back here to right. So every three days, he has a chance to speak something different, either. There's a spike in cases we're shutting City Hall down again, whatever it used to be worth asking with this resolution that he give a had the option of being a person or university, which is something that Georgia Open Meetings Act already says we can't do because we're in a state of emergency. Why because he didn't stated last month, his intention was not to be a jerk, and make everybody come back in person. He stated that he was concerned about overall function of the city. And there are bases Terry's audit base that has applicants coming before him needs to conduct business, that sort of thing. There's due process concerns, there's notification concerns, whatever. So for those bases, to meet in person probably makes things a lot easier. Right. But for a advisory body that's trying to blend people from across the city on a Saturday morning. It doesn't make sense. And he basically stated as such, his intention was not to force a guy to come to City Hall on Saturday, he probably would have preferred to join our zoom call in the first place. So we're asking them to say hey, give us the chance to let us decide based upon how we feel the best and operate. Give us that chance, which is already covered by the Open Meetings Act as long as we are in a state of emergency state of emergency heads. It's a different conversation. But at least for now, as we have the state of emergency. We want the privilege that's already recognized by the state to apply to a
boss I've learned as not all the sequences are the same.
So are we looking to actually operate in a hybrid manner where we have like officers in person and other people remote or are we really just trying to operate virgin?
I would say the attendant my resignation that's to operate hybrid leave. Some people do really value coming and meeting in person so yeah, I mean, I didn't want to remove that. That ability and just making it clear. Not everyone has the internet. So just making you as open as we possibly can
one follow up when we submit these resolutions do we usually submit them with like a memo as well to just plain English to explain what our attentive because PIO, I feel like you really explained it really well is to like get across our point. So I was curious.
Why don't you guys in our meeting with TCP about resolutions. Jim and I met with them and we did that. When we submit resolutions. We will submit a cover letter on giving what it is for what we're asking. So if he's voted to go forward with Dr. Coronavirus.
Great question because I think that question is long right?
So do we have any other questions for Laura, and the Committee on Council? Thank you. All right, if not the motion
to adopt our 22 second motion.
It was motion. Thank you, Debbie. I'm just trying to move this motion for just one resolution are 2204 720 or 22 00. Emotions. I wasn't sure about the committee on this all right. Ladies and gentlemen, you discussed resolution 004 meetings. We're now going to take a vote on it. And we're going to do it because in case resolution, so in PUD, we can vote yes if you see anyone coming in people d i in PvP I envy you cheat you in this interview in peace in pDTV NPU
loading yesterday yes
in you and in PUC Do we have anybody that So, That resolution passes the company
So, get the resolution if you get a cover letter for all right, there are other resolutions 2205 2206 2007. We're going to pass each of these. If you have already read them and you have questions. We'll take your questions today.
Yes may only do a few questions for one, I guess if we could just write out MRC because I don't. I don't know that it's spelled out anywhere in here. I had to look it up. It's still a little new though, essentially. And then I was also curious, where exactly is this impacting? Like, what kind of areas are so MRC one and then also I saw in the now there for the pilot paragraph. Not only were we looking to make it so service stations and dispense fuels, we're not permission MRC one. We're also looking to clarify the MRC doesn't allow a drive thru service or like Oh, add gas stations to drive thru services, Windows and so forth. But I think that would conflict with our intent but it would still be allowed in MRC three and two so I just wanted to make those comments.
Show so already in the code to drive thru windows are not allowed in MRC one. But the way that the code is structured planning staff has chosen to interpret that gas stations are allowed. And that was not the intent when the code was drafted. So what we're asking them to do is fix that. So the gas stations are explicitly prohibited, but not to add any new permissions in association with that, so we're going to keep the language that's they're prohibiting drive throughs we're just gonna make sure that we've added the gas stations are included
having the gas stations are included.
Right because because they have decided to interpret them as being something else
that they would have to modify offer compared to other MRC zoning districts that we are not looking
at. No does a course where we're seeing to change the language is where he's already calling out MRC, one specific as opposed to MRC. Two and three. So that there is in the code there are set of permissible uses in MRC broad that include gas stations, and that's part of the problem is that the planning staff refers to that and then and then applies to the MRC one where they should be able
to see your question, I don't know what it is, but I can see it on your face. Yeah. I'm
one of the MPs with MRC one parcels, with gas stations. So thank you very much that would make them informed on an entire piece. So I guess we have a whole other rest of the show. Please call that begin. Resolution they have piggy bank. So I'm struggling a little bit with the definition with the gas station being the drive thru in that it's it's more retail than it is drive thru. Because people get out if they turn off the motor. As a car, they get out of their car, they service the car and then they leave. It's not like going through a drive thru at a Wendy's where you're in your car, you stay in your car, your car's running. There's there's a long lane of cars going in and out. So for me this, this resolution doesn't make any sense. And I think when it comes time to vote, I would recommend against it. But I
think it's important to also consider the prohibition against outdoor car. So it isn't it isn't merely a question of the drive thru. It's awfully hard to argue the gas station isn't outboard commerce.
No, I totally agree with that. Is that a part of this legislation? The MRC one includes that Congress is I missed that.
It isn't mentioned in this resolution. But there is a wave and Mr. Seymour definitely seaborne there's a prohibition against abrupt calm and I've got those days that they routinely only interpret to include, like farmers markets, for some reason, I don't understand. And then they wrote code to specifically allow farmers markets which I didn't understand was the only thing that drove the gap. But again, that part of the problem with the code is that there's what's written and then there's the how it's interpreted. And that can change so gas stations used to be prohibited in MRC one and the code didn't change, but now that permitted, the people that are instructed to coach
Well, I also have gas stations and see one and they're not as problematic as one would expect. And their neighbor with gas stations.
Yeah, I mean, I think the other part of all of this with regard to gas stations is that when the code was written originally, a gas station was a very different thing from what a gas station is today. So that, you know, a gas station with 20 or 25 field service bays, was not existed in 1982. And it's the standard form now totally, and so it's no longer a neighborhood commercial sort of enterprise now it's coming off the freeway and fill up. So a different business model. Adrian,
my concern about about gas stations are the number of Curb cuts that they require. Can this or does this address the impact of Curb cuts on the safety of pedestrians and people trying to walk on the sidewalk?
Well, this is this is only about MRC one. It's not about gas stations. And so in some of the overlays, there are limitations on current codes. So like in the Beltline overlay, for example. There are what I don't recall offhand whether there are any in the MRC code.
I don't think they're all things.
But again, that that's sort of that's a separate issue. That's not addressed at all
to try to address multiple sets of questions, so one MRC one so it makes residential commercial. One, two and three. One Perth code is that commercial residential spaces designed to serve a single neighborhood or a small group of adjacent neighborhoods, up in scale Marcy to this four group of adjacent neighborhoods universally designed to serve a city or a region. So to me, I think to Debbie's question is wants to nutrients as well. The reason we have an MRC code and not just the commercial code, just sensors is specifically a preamble. Once we talk about preamble the statement of intent with this code is for pedestrian oriented uses to try to prohibit curb cuts limit the number of Curb cuts in order to ensure sidewalk widths to the building space in the streets, which I think also gets to Debbie's point about is a gas station like a drive thru. Going to Mars mercy one drive through. So that's a bank teller. That's a restaurant that's a laundromat and all that sort of stuff is clearly designed for people that are driving to a site to be able to use facility primarily departing to think about that that's what this is sort of getting into too. And that's how the city used to interpret it. But there's this textual flaw I will say, in the code, which has this one specific sort of statement, not in the list of uses and prohibitions, specifically mercyone It's in a different section. So what this resolution is saying is that one sense should be moved where it makes the most sense, where the code, city planning staff has to deal with it, or applicants have to read it as well in the western Pacific University line, and since it apparently is not clear to people, that gas stations that you pop in your car, you drive to go to the pump, you might go inside and buy something that's primarily cardboard this activity is to be considered like a dragon drive thru facility that you explicitly coordinate elsewhere.
I think it's interesting to from what Debbie said earlier, that your your interpretation of gas station is similar what you get out of your car and pump your own gas. And in 1982 That was a fraction of gas stations and it wasn't a majority. And most gas stations that actually were drive throughs where you sat in your car and somebody else bumped your gas turn off your engine
your but even what's my topic? Okay, now I'm going to go ahead and swipe my car at the pump so I wasn't looking for a drink. I can easily stay in the parking lot
and then I think you should stop talking because you're making more work for yourself. Because I think your argument made more sense for this resolution. So like right now the argument is saying like oh drive through a gas stations a drive thru we shouldn't have drive throughs. But I think the argument make sense is talking about the intent of the zoning district and the intent is a walkable environment. And we don't think so, because that's what it's intended to serve neighborhood but this is sort of a more regional use, and I feel like that kind of a resolution makes more sense. It was easier.
February. So you're saying you're saying that they need to kind of be reworded or
left out and that would be aware as that wouldn't change the metaphor.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But whereas is would change but
the results are
most important and then I would like to go back to what I discussed earlier. A good narrative. That seems like a memo for me, when we put this before the body, to crunch it in a plain language, hit the bullets of what the backstory is that oftentimes why because at one point, it was a it was an abuse that substance was a prohibited use that subsequently based on interpretation, who came in okay to do so. If you could kind of crunch it put it in a narrative that again, it supports the whereas for for a lot of folks, including me at times, but what I just heard today was a little more of a little more dissection of understanding.
Are you talking now about the cover letter or are you talking about really?
Well, I'm saying the cover letter should come to current with this when you present it to us because it also gives us what you're going to in plain language, give to the body that you're hoping is going to get a favorable review. That's that's
it that's how we cover letters before so this is a new thing. Yep, okay.
Now this was discussed guessing. These are for first read today. Discussion. However. Whatever your recommendation is, please please attend the cdhs. Meeting. A few look on the back of your agenda. I did not put a date because he normally meets on the first Monday of July.
Yeah, I didn't send that to you in the committee report. The sixth we decided to meet on the sixth which is every committee report that I sent you what? I didn't send you the URL for virtual attendance because Zoom Room too. So we're going to have to use a different URL, but I will send that that out and notice to the body by email.
So if you would film your change of filming July 6, as being the date for the CHS
and the physical venue will be Tuesday tacos but the virtual URL will not be the same as filming.
And you'll notice on the back of the agenda, I indicated that the location for the meeting Tuesday taco 1523 how he is doing both virtually and in person and Colin you want to give them that regulation that they're operating on board with this
too, that we are covering up so as we are in a state of emergency. Anybody can. Anybody but in addition to the members of the quorum, the individual participants in those meetings contain remotely via teleconference twice a year, unless they have a doctor's note or some other physicians explanation, then they can continue to be virtually as pre pandemic that already existed in state phone number the drift laws importantly in person, individual participants can participate up to twice in the calendar year without needing any excuse. And beyond that
the dispositions to justify which which then brings up next question. Does anyone know Dr. Seuss, right.
He's a psychologist. Psychiatrist.
So before we were gonna ask them a question about resolution
alphabet soup, terms of what couches explained what will that be included as far as
I'm sure what won't be included whereas with
what he explained about the content of MC, MRC and
we are talking about adding our as responsibilities earlier. I haven't drafted it yet, but I made a little note
with Jim as we also discussed what is included as a footnote for communication from Yes, I believe, Commissioner.
It did both email and the voicemail for Mike Dobbins asking him to send something in writing, but he has not as yet responded to.
So Jim has already had a conversation where he has heard from my comments that yes, this was the intent. So in addition to what's in the code of will have a letter from him saying yes, this is what we were trying to do with it. And we can present our presentation as well. And amongst those, hopefully the council will be sympathetic, pointed, probably sympathetic.
I heard I heard from Mike Dobbins that this was the intent and I heard from Carlos with David's, that this was also the practice. Permission was created late.
She wants to know who these people are.
Mike Dobbins used to be the commissioner of planning in the city when the MRC code was written. And Carl Smith, David's first planner and planning partner for a fairly long time, but it's no longer in the planning department. Policy, my department vehicles job. Whereas last
year do we have any questions
Yes, yesterday I took a look at the agenda and it was like it was talking about illegal non conformities I think it says illegal non performative. One target was resolution. So if that's the focus or one a database or a
very specific reason for that. So the resolution that addresses in the non conformities does not specifically say and that was a very conscious decision after much discussion, because asking this group to do is document its own negligence. And the city is undoubtedly not going to want to document its own negligence, at least not explicitly. So instead of asking the city to document its own negligence, we're asking the city to document all instances, which would happen to include its own negligence. And it's really the negligence or concern, because when the zoning code rewrite occurs, you don't want for years to come. Ownership all back on the excuse for all that predated the zoning, rewrite. And therefore plus to be illegal non conforming, when in fact, it wasn't illegal nonconformity both before and after. And so the fact that they're not enforcing the zoning code now means that these are non conformities are going to continue to exist, but we don't want them to be hidden by as underground.
Does that make sense? Yes, that doesn't make sense. Now we're looking at structures and uses illegal non performing
all of all zoning non conformities.
That sounds like a task that's going to be attached well again,
the process is one that would allow the public to nominate and so it's those things, particularly those things where there's been begging the city to enforce for years and years and years. We know where they are not getting the action, but we don't want to throw in the towel. just yet.
All right, what about resolutions said the questions became.
What do I consider a non conforming looks like not permitted under the existing zoning of a site what exists? Then it is not performed the use or condition of either a form or the question
of how much detail are you talking about?
I mean if it's according to the setback, and that wasn't very than that's a nonconformity. If it's a strip club in a residential district, then that's a non conforming. So I think, you know, in the first case, that would be what one might call a fairly minor nonconformity. The second case is what one might call a very major architectural
pattern, the criteria for what nonconformity qualifies for this type of documentation now that it's done, detailed that is pointed out realistic. Oh, yeah, I mean, you can't go backwards from that to something that is realistic is being specific about what is realistic versus what's not. Because almost every property, you if non performing in some way.
You can't call through every single property in the city and examine every single detail of that property to determine what you have. You can create an archive and have those with concerns add to that archive, and all you need to do in that case is to vet those nominees to make sure that they're accurate. It you could go from a list of complaints or you could solicit other input. What
I'm getting at is I think that this needs to be it would be more robustly specifically said what it was they were supposed to do, but criteria for a nonconformity of interest. versus one that is not
well, I think that the
Yeah, I mean, again, it undoubtedly varies with circumstance as to whether something is or is not problematic. But that's the same nonconformity on two different sites. One might be a public nuisance, and one might not be very difficult thing to write. But again, if they're both documented, no problem if the one that's a public nuisance is documented, no problem, right?
So, for example, to use, or your finishes are hard to demonstrate because people have one use from midnight to 6am and another use,
you know, but it's still working. Well, you don't
have to find out the rest of their other another property that you've been examining would be setbacks. And that's sort of limited to that. That would be very best that's possible to do. The first one is really very
difficult. So yeah, again, I don't
think since we're getting into committee, yes. We need to Yeah,
I understand what you
want to ask. Richard if he would use his one of his virtual times to join your meeting on the sixth because he has to be a fairly regular in person. Oh, well, in person is fine. We got to have questions. We're gonna move on. We got one from Debbie and one from machine
and this is related to our 22 007. therefore be it resolved statement
is really confusing.
I've read it three times and I'm still not clear where you're trying to go
to this resolution is getting committee now for about six months. And that paragraph has been rewritten in committee about six
months. Okay, so seven, three.
Okay. So I'm going to say rather than discussing it here, probably in committees the basketball thing, right.
I think I'm ready to go.
To. Korea keeps showing up with a draft it's like four drafts old and you want to get to be changed in ways it's already
works like person we
Talking about 007, I've said a couple of questions. Just wanted to is this basically to saying we like non conforming uses, that are illegal in buildings?
It's not saying that we liked them and saying that they're not intrinsically problematic. Okay. Okay. And so, and this came out of some early discussions about the zoning coterie right. Where the planners were essentially asserting that, you know, if you have a nonconformity that isn't problematic, you should turn it into a blanket permission. And I see a lot of problems associated with that as a pulse. That rather than fixing a problem, you could very well be creating a problem if that's the way you approach
grandfathering is forever anyway. So why don't you get a
permission well, because if you've got if you live in a single family neighborhood, and you've got a duplex next to your house and you don't dislike that duplex, then there's not a problem with duplexes, so we should allow duplexes everywhere in your neighborhood right? Let's agree that is done. And that's essentially what the resolution says.
Then maybe ducks and bunnies language this is dumb.
Well, it used to say irksome but we got rid of
the title it says non conforming uses like in the resolution to just clarify, it's also about structures.
So what's the difference between this? It was a few months ago. It was a neighborhood that has they have the protections where you can't change the outside of your home. Well, this lady bought a house that was fully renovated, she bought call your heights and all this money to restore it, but she was gonna change it. She bought it. And why is that we're doing this residence. Maybe there's no such
that's not a zoning thing. It's that sort of caveat. Is that historic person buys?
Is this short, this is the same zoning,
what is no independent zoning code for that particular neighborhood? You cannot change the aesthetics of the outside because it's checked.
Was it was the owner that did that was that corner of sight on the city code enforcement.
After she bought the home well, she bought the home rather than not the
newer per se in the corner that actually did the chain. Oh, she never saw what you saw. So
basically, someone bought it to renovate it. Provided like what specifically and they change the outsides but 1000 properties and outside. She bought it so what came along maybe the code itself, you can't do that in this neighborhood. So protected. Adapt, she's been forced to make the changes and spend 1000s and 1000s of dollars when she
really well. Circumstances to be these are national historic society and the economy heights Historic Society are supposed to provide her with a system they wanted to go back after flipper for the restoration of damage, but because it is historic district, that's one of the purposes of getting classified like that because that's a lengthy process, but the National Historic Society and the Congress heights Historic Society are supposed to help her with that situation.
In that case, I would think that she would have legal recourse against the potential disclosure, but more generally, if you have an illegal unconformity, you can't turn it into a legal model for me really by selling these products, right. Otherwise, the strip club and the residential neighborhood would suddenly become permissible if I said somebody else.
Theory what I'm saying that's a single person. A single woman who bought the house and it was it was literally right before seeing this out. First time this this, in theory, they should have more capital and different
things. Yeah, I don't I don't think that that is addressed one way or the other.
But my question would be like, so why is it that they get to become an illegal performing that we're okay with no action, but the preservation of
distinction between illegal nonconformity and illegal right so if if this situation that you're describing had been a legal nonconformity that no one can force anyone to change. Do something illegally, that you have a problem and you can hand off that problem to whoever you sell that to.
To support this board attack Task Force, don't see we don't have to adhere to the code from the LRV Sure.
What are we actually like to jump to
Tuesday at five o'clock
on the 14th of May, LRB cannot be because we didn't have to sell the entire schedule has shifted. And so LRP met this Tuesday, have been again one week from this committees, and so on and so on. At five o'clock last week. No good. g7
meeting was June 2. Yes. Okay.
So next week is the 21st.
That's for 14 days.
21st is going to be this coming Tuesday. When I asked you about that a while ago.
It has shifted
three weeks difference between the last meeting
this Tuesday this past Tuesday.
This past Tuesday was the 14th The 14th covering again on the 28th. They met on the 14th. They didn't announce they didn't have an agenda or have an agenda was published agenda was for the seventh.
I know that they met because that was in the text. I was not here though. Yeah, I I
attended the meeting on the seventh I know you weren't there because I attended. 21st There's no published agenda or announcement that there's going to be immediately one would assume then that in fact that will be on the 28th. But again, there's no point thinking about that
rather than thinking I had a record for you guys. Do my research. Let me do my homework and find out what's going on senators might be at the LRP if they're wondering
why they don't get more citizen participation because they do all this crazy stuff. Okay, so territory
meeting on the seventh was not cast
on June 7. It
was not broadcast. And it was it's not that hard. But is there a new chair?
No, there is not. A Jared has resigned and we're asked him not to resign or she has not resigned and which way to
go. Be easy Ontario. He does his part so
ordered test this man as we proceed to return to acrp I don't know anything about Wyoming. Officially let me just say officially, I have not received anything from the ACA or being nor notifying me that Christie Christie represents introduced Z. I understand that she has written a resignation to the ACR. The league has not sent me anything in writing to that effect yet, nor as Christie communicated. So this table discussion until I get something official notifications to everybody. Do have a person, everybody.
Our new board member basically it stands for
us to using acronyms that we forget that there are people who don't know what we're talking about. So we talked about the current
symptoms 1230 and make a motion to extend the time to being 15 minutes. We're gonna say
I guess we motion that we still in the meeting by 15 minutes. All those in favor please say aye. All those opposed, please say
aye. really needed the next 15 minutes because we don't have a lot of committee reports to really wanted to give his report but apparently he had to leave a little bit early. Actually it wasn't just conversations we've had he started to develop his plan for the transportation committee. So we'll share that with everyone. We still desperately need a chair of the utilities committee. Asset I'm going to send out an email to everybody asking that you please send me your bio your resume. So, having said that, also, we can take a look at your past experiences and see which of these committees and boards and commissions we should put you to
this question. So was that chair out there that's what you told us it also, they also do that person also work with the rental assistance that's going on right
now. Okay, now that would not be under the category of utility. Utilities would be Georgia Power. Georgia natural gas, waterworks. Any utility.
I saw the opportunity for utilities
are the same. They put it in the same. Yep. But no as far as APM is concerned that utilities the federal assistance doesn't come under you to
share or alternate activity, someone that nominates themselves for that position or no you can you can go into that position just submit your resume and you introduce yourself, okay.
Listen to me out like God just didn't tear you okay, I'm learning because I'm fighting back.
So if you're interested in me, send me your resume or your bio and let me know that you're interested in sacrificing yourself
and just model as required that a committee chair be a member of a voting member.
It does the same thing. It says
in members of a tab bar chairs
right now or steel chairs, delegates and alternates now because of the change that we're going to have to make before 2023 The actual voting members each in the New World designate sent to us in writing their voting members without looking at
that. Let's see, are you a chair or a dominant? Okay, actually
that was my point. Yeah,
I felt it but I actually emailed Ron Lall my chair and I emailed him after we voted on that. Or virtual hybrid thing. And I said, Hey, hit me up and I just spoke to God, but he said there's the alternate position to I don't think we have that but I'm the only one for building you here. But I can't say
okay, well, we'll have us now because he's on the agenda. roster as chair and the delegate. You're right, they don't have so we can speak, speak to him and see what he says. All right, but I just think that you know, this was huge for the future, everybody, for 20 to start in 2023 we will have a roster voting members, they will have a roster and choose the delegates and all voting members would be whichever one of those they fall into. We still need to maintain and keep our member roster. So you will have the voting members and members and I need those resumes or BIOS because there are some potential projects that we need to have. Know who we can get sent to work complex projects, and I will spend the last
three minutes in the interest of time we had corner conversations every first Wednesday the next one is coming up July 6 at NPUs R I N and S at the point of intersection where our ins need our for NP University we've got two classes coming up that I'm aware of at least our civic participation for seniors. It's on July 26. It'll be here at City Hall in the atrium, and civic responsibility and engagement for youth is July 11 through the 15th That's a week long Academy for rising juniors and seniors in high school, teaching them the importance of civic responsibility, participating in the civic process and being the member associations and city government as well. And that is open for all. We only have 25 slots, but we're hoping for a nice diverse mix of young people. Again, rising juniors and seniors they must be Atlanta residents for the city of Atlanta and for the children of city of Atlanta employees are listening to her it's complete closed out finished. We had 21 one on one meetings with NPU chairs and the interim Commissioner for planning. I know someone will ask because I get the question regularly, the planning commission or position is still open and they're still working to build that role. And a thank you to all of those who participated in the first advisory group meeting for the community impact grant, I had to miss it because I had a final listening tour. Or one of those mentor sessions. Oh, it's back at the end, but I understand that it was really really Tony was very excited with the feedback that he got him saying it was really productive and helpful. And we're working to just constantly working to tweak and improve the grant program. And that's all
your questions. Thank you. All right. Please note that the meeting dates and times on the vacuum agenda. We still have to establish meaning Basic Education public safety and transportation. Now
guess the bylaws committee will be meeting this coming Wednesday, the 22nd at six o'clock we will make sure that that gets communicated via email and on website since obviously we're not a channel 26 to get this information. Okay.
So at this point there will be meeting virtually, virtually. So you're going to use this as everybody's one virtual first delivery it will be
we will be operating under these data the pandemic allows us to meet
Okay, all right. Just make sure you get that to the server and get that updated and new to find out what's going on because he is on the media. He's not checking last month, last month, last month, and he would have made sure he's okay.
And he's traveling right now but he was trying to follow along on TV. It's just because we don't have the equipment.
We have to get our committees in line with what they were supposed to. From the beginning. The original intent this is what I'm getting what I'm reading the transportation utilities that were supposed to a cap was the chair of those committees. Every NPU was supposed to be sending their person for that committee to those committee meetings. So this is a this is some stuff that I was almost one of the past presidents but some of the stuff. But anyway, just to let you know, we're going to start with the public safety community because we have to get those 15 people appointed to those police groups. So sending out a notice to everyone. Asking them to send someone there to a meeting is going to
set it up.
Provide them with a dinner whatever something we need to know getting those 15 people so you'll get more information on that. workouts and details and then the next one will be with the transportation. All right. Does anybody have any announcements that they just made? I
MARTA Army and ATL Link have partnered up to have festival in the community it. Juneteenth always has a festival every year but this time under contract with MARTA army and I partnerered them up so we can survey the community. So our army is a nonprofit branched off MARTA, and we are grassroots boots on the ground and we survey the community as to what they want. And there's actually a new part of bus redesign right now. It's called MARTA Reach and they want to know, what we want as a community and as a visual user of target public transit. I think it's important that we do use it. Tell Marta what we want. There's a festival going on and I wouldn't be out there running around tomorrow. Interviewing people invite you guys to come out even for like 30 minutes or an hour for your score dream Centennial Olympic Park. If you get out a margin of five points. Train station you got to St. Louis 26 Point stop. It should start at 9am is at 8pm.
So are the urban forests in your neck of the woods having a health fair this afternoon? Due to health celebration.
1212 heading there right now.
What broke the rules meal conference meal food for? Does anybody have anything else? If not, because Suffolk County County had a question or comment.
Just a comment. So City Council is set to the adopt budget for next year on Tuesday. discussing my clock and the largest the budget later in the day before they get to the budget. As of last week, the budget increased from 734 million to 754 million to accommodate the $20 million in solid waste services that are they're not able to collect currently for fees to the utilities committee... which I know you're looking to find somebody to engage with them. They passed one of the three ordinances that was on the NPU agendas. They chose the one which puts it into the general fund. There is a two year sunset on it. And in that time the city is supposed to be studying other ways, other structures, ways to reduce cost services, whatever else you're seeing is across the country. So that's not to say saying we're always going to keep the general fund at least short term in order to get the budget passed. It's the general fund. The $7 million from the Affordable Housing Trust Fund which have been left out before that's not included but that's within the general framework. A consistent budget grew from non departmental into that trust fund, so no dollar change there. The only dollar change is from the solid waste. Council's voting on a Tuesday. There were 26 amendments, sort of shifts in pay grades and that sort of stuff that were introduced at the executive committee meeting last week. I can ask councilmember Dozier to introduce an ordinance or amendment. He's still working through that with the city. But that would be to, as you probably hopefully know, the city has open checkbook software. So you can see where the expenses go out. The same company that offers that also offers booking budget. So rather than reading a 600 and something page PDF document, it can be an interactive, click through to understand where money's coming from doing that. So I've requested that he put that in the budget as well. We will see if that happens. I'm hoping for it.
to gain one how I don't know how it works. Of course I'm learning as I go but how can they have been more informed and engaged in the budget? And then also, I would like to vote and then second of all, for that eight cracks safety thing that you were talking about that we need people also again, there'll be will it be kind of civility, you know,
you can this is civility from your songs six police precinct, yes. Okay.
So I need to Ron again? No, no,
well, not necessarily. You need to that's what we do need to send me your resume
that I was that kidnapped coming off of Burnett here this morning. Like this guy was just I didn't know how to pull out my phone and it was scary. And then when I turned on Trinity, the fire department was filling up with water. And if it wasn't for them, a car pulled up next to us. It slowly just slowed up and I was like all of our I was like I don't want to go out like this. Sounds cool. Yeah. And that takes you back for
your information to well, it's past 15 minutes so motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Okay. Thank you all so much ago was a little bit lengthy. I was shooting to get out of here. 1230. But of course we didn't start. So thank you so much. And Mr. Russo.
We want to talk