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Hi, my name is George Abraham and welcome to Eyeway Conversations. My guest today is Justin Philips from Bangalore. He is a trainer. Hi Justin, welcome.
Welcome, George. Good morning.
So, Justin, you work with Vision-Aid, and you've been working with them for a little while. So tell us a little bit about what Vision-Aid does.
Vision-Aid is another NGO in our country. They are focused on education, employment and empowering the blind in our country. So as part of that, I teach spoken English. And I also teach Braille. Braille is a dying art, but we are trying to revive it.
So what are the various programs that Vision-Aid actually delivers?
Vision-Aid is most famous for its Python program. And its digital accessibility training. Everybody must have heard about Deque university here, providing a certificate course and accessibility. So Vision-Aid combines that course, along with classroom training. So students do the Deque course and simultaneously receive help from our trainers.
When you teach people who can't see from the distance mode or on a computer. What are the kinds of challenges you have actually faced? Because most of us are comfortable with face to face kind of engagements?
Yeah, so teaching online is a challenge in itself. Network issue is the most important one, either they can't hear us or there is static, sometimes there is a delay, in spite of which we try to deliver the best material. And people not showing up is also a big issue. They joined with the enthusiasm, but somewhere down the line, their enthusiasm begins to wane. So that has also been a challenge. Surprisingly, for the braille course, you know, people, I was thinking that the computer and laptop revolution would have diminished the interest in braille. But people seem to have taken braille with a lot of enthusiasm. And each batch there is more than 10 people. That is one surprising thing about online.
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When you completed your education, what was the journey or what was the kind of experience that you had when you were looking for a job? And how did you actually land up your first job?
Actually, I completed my education in 1991. At that time, I had done my MA in Economics and I was like every other person trying to get a lecturer post. But you know, God plans different things for us. But that didn't take shape. So I was looking for other opportunities here. I had got a part time job teaching Braille and abacus in a special education institute. That's called JSS Institute there I was teaching part time Braille, maths and abacus. So meanwhile, I was trying to search for jobs. But these were the pre internet days and there was severe lack of information about where job opportunities were. And it was a struggle to find opportunities. Finally, I underwent a telephone operating course in Davars College. Through that I got an opportunity to work in Bangalore hospital though it was a short stint. I worked for about one and a half years. Then I came to know about the music shop Radel where they make musical instruments. So they needed a person to handle sales there. The other people could not decipher music, so they couldn't answer the relevant questions of the sales of the customers. So I thought that fit my profile better. So I switched over there. Then around 1999 I've heard of Madhu Singhal. A lady approached her saying that we will teach medical transcription to the blind that will open up opportunities. So I grabbed the opportunity. Computers were just being becoming accessible to the blind at that time, and Windows 98 was prevalent at that time. So I was also keen on using computers professionally. So I grabbed this chance, and I underwent that course. But within six months, that company went bust.
Right.
Then I had to find another company. I joined another company called PMG, they were into television and the CIO magazine. There also I was doing transcription, unfortunately, when that company went bust. And finally, I thought I will go back to medical transcription. And I've contacted one of my mentors earlier. He was working for accuses, it is a medical transcription company which works from home. So I thought this was the best way to go forward. And I contacted him. And they were also good enough to give me a chance. So for the next seven to eight years, I was working for Accuses since 2003 to 2010.
You mentioned the little earlier when you talked about Radel that you understood music and so when you say you understood music, did you formerly learn music at any point of time? Are you involved with music in any way?
Actually, in our school, Divine Light School for the Blind people are encouraged to sing and take part in musical activities. So there I learned a bit of violin. So with that knowledge, I just transferred by skills into keyboard and guitar. And I learned two years of tabla also. I took the junior exam for the Hindustani Tabla but I didn't take it further. So all these skills have just learned by listening and learning and playing. And I teach guitar and keyboard for a few students. Prior to the pandemic, it was good, but after the pandemic, it died down.
So what kind of music do you actually teach? Is it Indian music, Bollywood music or western music?
Yeah, most of them want Bollywood and Western popular music. I don't teach the classical music. Just a popular songs. So whatever they want, I just teach them.
You have a family now. You, your wife and your two kids. So when you got married, normally, it's pretty difficult for a blind person to find the partner. What's your story?
Actually mine was also arranged marriage. I didn't intend to get married because I was not economically stable. But my parents, they were searching. I didn't know much about it. Then, in 1996, they said a girl had agreed for the proposal. So I went to Kerala. I have met her. She agreed. Thank God and then my problem was solved. So in May 1997, I got married.
And your wife has a visual impairment as well or...
She is she's normal.
...got no disability, and is she kind of involved with any kind of professional work or?
She's a teacher in a primary school. Prior to this, she was a beautician before she started getting back pain, shoulder pain and all then we thought, you know better to move into another field. So she like working with children and interacting with children then I suggested maybe joining Montessori or primary school might be the next way forward. So we decided and she underwent that training. Now she's very happy being with kids.
Let's get back to your professional work, you teach braille. And you also did mention that perhaps the use of braille is on the decline, given the upsurge and popularity and the movement towards digital platforms and digital tools. So what do you see the future of braille and the relevance of braille say going forward?
Yeah, thanks to the invention of Orbit reader, people are taking to braille once again. The earlier devices used to cost a bomb, and was unaffordable to others. People, particularly in the teaching profession are embracing Braille. And among the students that I had, there were a couple of students, one was a teacher in Kashmir. One was an IIT employee also. So they also took up braille. So I see a lot of promise for braille. And of course, digital technology. Everybody needs to be updated about it. So Windows, Mac, Android, and iPhone, are all tools that we can use to improve our digital awareness.
So you you don't see braille kind of dying away.
No, surprisingly not. Because thanks to Orbit, I think more and more people will embrace braille. Even in the West, people are focusing on literacy. So braille equals literacy for the blind.
Right.
So with braille, we have the ability to picture the words, the sentences, the spellings, the current generation have an atrocious spelling ability. So if you learn braille, those spelling stick in your mind, that kinetic, imagination comes to our mind. So whenever possible, I encourage all the blind to learn braille. So even in the West, they are reemphasizing students to take a braille. So maybe through Vision-Aid, this will be our mission, also, to re introduce braille to the public.
Reading is another passion that you have. So what is the kind of books you read? Where do you get your books from? And what do you think is the importance of books in the life of a blind person?
Yeah, books are the portal to the world. What we can't see through our eyes we can imagine through the writer, and he has generously written and it is our duty to consume those reading material and improve ourselves. So I am a member of Bookshare. And there are more than 100,000 books there. In our lifetime, we can't read all the books yet. We can select and read the books we want. I am mostly into nonfiction, and I read self help books, spirituality, books relating to English language writing, speaking, and development of all skills, and any other books that others have recommended. I do read.
You know, you were talking sometime back about this platform called Clubhouse and I think you taught something on Clubhouse for some time. Tell me a little bit about that. What exactly did you do?
Yeah, so even I used to follow you and Subramani. Even you had your conversations?
Yeah.
So that was an interesting experience. So in during the pandemic, Clubhouse was a meeting point for most of us. So for about one year I taught spoken English. So people used to come and I used to help them with speaking, spellings, use their vocabulary. So there used to be this Clubhouse called Knowledge house. So I used to be frequently visiting there and I used to support so that way I got to know meet so many people. I got even a couple of English students also there were small young children, they wanted to learn English they wanted to better their language. So I taught them privately also. That was also an interesting experience. And I really am amazed by the talent people have in Clubhouse. You know, one early morning, I just out of curiosity, I just opened a Clubhouse. And people were talking in old English, you know. And it all happened, impromptu.
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There are a number of blind people in our country and they are kind of marginalized for a variety of reasons. You have any thoughts in terms of how they can be kind of empowered and included?
In my later years, I have realized that, you know, we need to stand up for them. Also, there are so many people who in spite of good education lack the opportunity, just in America itself, there is around 75% are unemployed among the blind themselves in America. So you can just imagine how our country is faring people have the education but no opportunity. So that's why these days, I'm also taking a more proactive role. And I'm trying to find opportunities. So my message to all the NGOs is to make employment a priority. Or at least we must open doors through self employment, we must open up marketing opportunities so that these people, if they produce something at home, other organizations should take up the marketing of these products and make them independent. So even Pope said, you know, "where there is no work, there is no dignity".
Justin, when exactly did you lose your eyesight and what is your eye problem?
I was born with congenital blindness. I could see till the age of seven, but it was very less. And we are talking about the early 70s when the technology was very poor. I used to wear spectacles. And those spectacles were low powered. So for example, my eyesight was minus 16. But I was only having minus eight spectacles because they couldn't produce minus 16 spectacles at that time. Because of the all those things, my eyesight began to deteriorate. One I lost when I poked myself accidentally pretending to be old man. It happened during the baptism of my brother. During his naming ceremony. And another I was playing with my friend and I accidentally we collided with each other.Though there was no physical injury. Within half an hour, I lost my remaining eyesight. Then I went to Divine Light School for the Blind and continued my further education.
When did you actually get into the mainstream because college education would have been mainstream? Or did you get a chance to get into the mainstream a little earlier?
It was in the 9th standard in 1982. At that time, that International year of the disabled had just completed, I believe. I think it was 1981 maybe somewhere. So as part of that, even our school wanted to experiment with that. So I was also chosen to go to a normal school. So I ended up joining Nehru Smarak Vidya Kendra, it is in J Nagar. About three or four bus stops away from my house. So there to get used to the other students. It took a little time. So there used to be a little bit of taunting, you know, people used to pull the stake. And I also being small, young teenager, I didn't know how to keep my anger in check. So there used to be those issues. But eventually I got to know that you know, they're just playing around with me. And I may not worry too much about that. So eventually I settled down and then it was smooth sailing all the way.
But what about the actual in the classroom?
I used to write down everything in Braille. Those days there was no other choice except to write in braille. And they were all small lesson. So I coped up with that. Only, instead of maths and science, we had what is called as Indian history and economics. So for those two additional subjects, we had to come back to Divine Light School for the Blind for support.
So that was probably the early days of the formal integrated or inclusive education.
Right.
And what are your thoughts on inclusive education? Do you think that's the way to go? Or you think special schools should continue?
Yeah, actually, that's the way to go. Because, though special education schools have their place, we should actively promote inclusion in all fields of education, because the blind have to know the reality. The world is changing very fast. And we are consuming knowledge and information that in huge amounts. And when you're stuck in an institution, you know, our boundary lines are drawn, and we can't go further than that. It becomes like a cocoon. And recently, Daisy and other forums, they are trying to make candidates write exams independently, you know, they want to abolish the scribe mode of writing exams. So the sooner we integrate children into the mainstream, the quicker they will learn to type and be independent in all their dealings. So the sooner we give them the chance, the greater the success that the candidates will benefit from.
So moving into college life, meaning you've done an Master's in economics, so you spent a minimum of at least five years in the university. So what was your journey through the university like? Did you get support from the university? Or was it your peer group that supported you or did you have to go back and seek support from Divine Light?
No, in Divine Light school support ended with the school itself. So it was my friends there in college, but during MA, it was each one to himself, you know, they wouldn't help each other because sort of they had their own pride to hold. So it was very disappointing that in higher education, people become sort of selfish. So and we had to do a lot of self study. And there my limitation became apparent, because I couldn't read books then. And remember those days? There were no computer technology. I managed to survive with notes and help from a couple of friends. I also had to relearn maths. There was 100 marks paper for Mathematical economics. So I had last studied maths in seventh standard.
So that must have been a real challenge.
Yeah, that was a real challenge. And I remember walking every day for five kilometers to a tuition class. So I had to understand all these concepts of calculus, differential equation, simultaneous equally equation. All these were alien concepts to me. I had to really use all my knowledge. But surprisingly, I got 83 marks in that paper. For all my efforts. I was the sixth highest in my class which I'm proud of.
So how did you write your maths exam because, you know, writing English or history is relatively easier. But how do you do your maths exam? that's an interesting question.
I took my cousin as my scribe. So she had done her BSc in chemistry and maths. So she knew all the symbolism in a maths paper. So I just had to dictate and she wrote the paper.
Yeah, that's actually the challenge a lot of people face. You know, when you come to science and maths exams to get the correct writers who understand the subject, it's not about them writing the paper for you, but it's about them understanding what you dictate.
Exactly.
Well, Justin, it's been wonderful speaking with you. Thank you and have a great day. Thank you.
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