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Episode 108 - Jason Wilfore | Otter.ai

Episode 108 - Jason Wilfore

Kelly C47min

Kelly C

01:21

Thanks so much for coming to the show. Congrats again. You are our Unusual Suspects blind tasting champion. Welcome to the show.

Jason Wilfore

04:37

Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was an absolute blast.

Kelly C

04:40

You could add this now to your resume.

Jason Wilfore

04:43

Yeah, and you know, it's over on the table there. I didn't wear the tiara today. It's there for future use. And the kickass trophy was also a great touch.

Kelly C

04:51

That was what happens when you search on Amazon for kick ass trophy. You now own that. What convinced you to take a chance on even competing with us on Sunday in this unusual suspects format - untestable. Why didn't that scare you?

Jason Wilfore

05:06

Why didn't it scare me because maybe I'm just so back to being so new at the tasting game because it had been so long since I had, you know, been studying for certifications and going to, you know, Monday morning tasting group for months and months and months. It really was a couple of months ago, I was fortunate enough to be on this trip to Napa and Sonoma, this educational trip, and it just opened the floodgates, the motivation came back. I literally had not blind tasted before that week, since you know, before pandemic, so that first day, we tasted like 50 different wines. And we're all just looking at each other at the end of day like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. It was amazing. And I came back and started going to Sunday tasting group. And I'm just like, No, why not? Let's just do it. Let's just see what's up.

Kelly C

05:56

You just made a lot of the other competitors are really mad that you had not blind tasted since before the pandemic. This is amazing. Fresh Start.

Jason Wilfore

06:04

Yeah, yeah, that was not me humble bragging, that was me moreso just being like, I have nothing to lose, you know, I really just wanted to go in and, and be open. And really, I looked at it probably like a lot of the other people at the table. It's another exercise. It's another, you know, it's another round of practice, and really just allowing ourselves to hopefully have fun and taste in a way utilizing however we taste it, whether it's the court or whether it's Wset or what have you there, folks there that, you know, don't have those references just having fun. And you know, I got lucky.

Kelly C

06:41

You had an open mind though. And honestly, when it comes to blind tasting, I feel like the mind games can really get in the way of even the best palates. So you actually said something pretty key about coming in with nothing to lose. If you can get your mindset in a just open exploratory phase. Sometimes that allows you to play more gymnastics with the wines in the glass, I really do think that happens,

Jason Wilfore

07:03

I completely agree. And I can recall, sort of when I was practicing a lot more consistently, if I didn't go to tasting group for like three or four months, and my brain was just an open book, I would go in and be like, oh, yeah, and you just think start clicking, and all of these little compartments in your head where you're thinking too much. And you're trying to figure something that's in the wine, trying to pull things out, not just open mind, just this presence, where you're not, you're not being too hard on yourself, you're not really trying too hard. And just letting that happen, floodgates open,

Kelly C

07:36

and you were very present. And we're gonna dive into all of your calls a little bit later. But I thought that we should start with just a little background, because the more I was reading about your past experience in the wine industry, and you are not new by any means to the world of wine. So let's just start a little bit about your current role here in Atlanta. Because Sunday, you were telling me that where you currently work, you often get to play with some pretty creative and fun food pairings. So what's your current role here in the city,

Jason Wilfore

08:05

so I am Sommelier at Mujo, we're on the west side. We're part of Castellucci Hospitality Group. So we're right next to cooks, or our sister next to us. And we are a 15 seat Omakase tasting menu only restaurant.

Kelly C

08:22

Oh, it's only I actually didn't know that I didn't know if it was other menu. Nope, just the Omakase format.

Jason Wilfore

08:27

That's i. Resy on the first of the month, 10am, all of the reservations will open for the month. They do fill up rather quickly. But we have a notification system that, you know, people have to cancel, we all have lives and things happen. So cancellations do occur, notifications go out. So if you're on that list, do have some options to be able to pick things up. But you foresee things. There's the 15 seat sushi bar, nine seats on one side, six on the other. So we'll seat at 530 and six, and then we'll reseat at 830 and nine and me is as one of the Somms Irina is the other. She's in charge of the sake program. And I take I'm in charge of the by the bottle list. And then we kind of have little shared responsibilities as far as BTGs. And then we each have our own pairings that we select. So she takes care of the standard pairings. And if I go into like Schpeel mode, forgive me, it's just like, when we greet the guests, we kind of go through everything there is to talk about what they're going to expect on the menu. We have things called supplements that they can add on to enjoy during the experience and then we have standard pairings and we have what are called Kiwami pairings. Kiwami means Deluxe in Japanese. So in the standard pairings arena is great at pairing things that are maybe a little more off the beaten path things like Amevive and Filipa Pato who you have you got to talk to both of them recently

Jason Wilfore

08:30

Twp past guests on the menu like how about that?

Jason Wilfore

09:56

Yeah definitely you know, fun grapes different grapes untestable grapes. So you know, I was really looking forward to go in and be able to maybe call some of those. But then the Kiwami pairings I do sort of more classic elevated, you know I'm pouring German Riesling and Sancerre and, you know, Burgundy's of all kinds and colors. And then you know, at the end of the pairings, because the fish do change throughout the year, seasonality is everything as far as this goes. But I poured some stuff at the end that you know, are a little bigger might have a little tannin structure. Because, you know, fatty tuna belly, let's have a little yo Ha, let's, let's have some Bordeaux.

Kelly C

10:35

So it's challenging all of your background in wine and then applying it in a really inviting way to people that are already there to have a wild experience. I mean, if you're signing up for multicourse, you have no idea what most of the ingredients are going to be that night. Also, you don't know the pairings, like people are there for a ride. So they're ready to just drink whatever you put in front of them. So you get to have fun with that.

Jason Wilfore

10:58

For sure. And I definitely think that's the vibe. And so I've been here only and since only it's almost a year since August. The restaurant opened February of last year. And so as they kind of got the pairings up and running. I think that's exactly the vibe like there people are coming in they know they're going to have an experience but they don't quite know yet what it's going to be and again little you know as far as the theme of the restaurant go Ichi go Ichi Ni means one time one meeting. So you come in, and that night, that experience that's for you. And so you know, let's go live it up. Let's do some pairings. Let's do cocktails, our cocktail program is awesome. Like our bartender just does a great job. So yeah, you think sushi restaurant but beverage program for we're there. And we're having fun. And we're really, hopefully there to help everybody have fun.

Kelly C

11:49

We just gave people more of an insight that they can find online of what to expect. We just gave them even more of a teaser. So thank you for sharing that. I loved reading your resume because it outlined quite a journey in the restaurant business from gosh, I think you'd said 1997 I think was the first role in upstate New York, French, but also Italian and then back down here to Atlanta and from Southern cuisine to French cuisine to now sushi, like all of that. But what was it that intrigued you so early on about diving into restaurants? What brought you into that space initially,

Jason Wilfore

12:27

a lot of it was in you know, upstate New York. I was born and raised in Schenectady. It's the home of GE, Thomas Edison. And we have amazing old school like ma and pa red sauce, Italian joints, family, we go out to dinner, we go to all those places, you know, there weren't huge, big fancy steak houses. Maybe a couple more upscale, you know, we would go for like New Year's Eve or whatever. But really, I just enjoyed going out to restaurants and seeing the waiters. And I'm like, Oh, that's cool. Not like, you know, that's what I'm going to do when I grow up. But that is what I did when I grew up. That's awesome. So that was kind of kind of it the whole, the whole crux of how I got my first gig. So I used to be in music. I used to be a singer went to music school for you know, this and that vocal performance. And my dad called me up because he's like, You need a job. And by his office, he saw a sign that said they're hiring singers for this restaurant. And the restaurant was Macaroni Grill and it was a brand new store opening. I went in and they're like, alright, sing us something. And so I sang like, I don't know, an Italian art song that I had been working on at school. They were like, Okay, do you have any experience in the restaurant business? And I said, Absolutely not. Except for going out enjoying, you know, whenever I can and they said Okay, so they brought me in. And they hired me as a singer and a host. I don't know, I guess I had to do something there as well. Because the whole singing part, like the host thing was really cool. Actually really took to it. I had never done anything like it before. And Mac Grill back then. I mean, that was like the heyday like it was big. So we had like a team of I don't know, five hosts on any given night, somebody at the door, because we've been taking the reservations, couple people receiving and then running the book, which I eventually really took to I loved just having the book and having like this, the whole dining room. And I'm just like, let's go. It's like an adventure every night.

Kelly C

14:22

It was a performance for you if you were facilitating an entertainment space.

Jason Wilfore

14:26

Yeah 100%. And I think that's definitely a part of, you know, in retrospect, what I loved about it, and maybe still do, but then throughout the night, my other responsibility was, and this I didn't love I don't know, why is I like performing. But when you're onstage care musical, or you're gonna play or you're in a band and you're performing like this, people are there to see you. But when you're in the restaurant, and my job is to go around and just sing randomly to people having dinner, and you know, and mackerel is not really around anymore, so it's not like I'm dissing them, but it's just My responsibility throughout the night was to go around and sing and entertain. And so you know, I did that. But probably about six months into it, I was doing very well. So host and they're like, alright, you want to be a server, I'm like, yep. And that was it. It was off to the races at that point.

Kelly C

15:18

And you'd already been in the restaurant, you already knew the menu knew the clientele. This is great Jason because I'm seeing a lot of the performance tie in there. But again, you were learning just how the restaurant functioned. And at that point, you can find your voice, no pun intended in the food and beverage system. Wow, that was really bad. That's great. Finding your voice in the food and beverage space, because that I know that you've worked at a few other locations with different types of cuisines and kind of finding your way, specifically to the interest in wine. But if I'm correct, it wasn't really until you're moved south to Atlanta that you brought on that formal wine education. Is that correct?

Jason Wilfore

15:59

That's 100% Correct. But I will go back to Mac Grill. Because when you got to be a server, you know, and you learn how to write your name upside down and crayon on the table or whatever. The first thing you're talking with guests it when I was there, while you're talking about the honor system wine, and there were these enormous jugs of Chianti that were on the islands in the middle of the dining room. And so you basically you do your greet, you bring them the jug over, you bring a couple glasses, and you're like baba, baba, bah, here's the spiel. And if you'd like I can leave this here with a couple glasses and you use the crayons and you just tally however many you have. And then that's what I'll charge you at the end of the day. So house Chianti and you know, back then, yeah, man, upstate New York back then. Yeah, wine was I don't know. It wasn't really a thing. I said this somewhere else. I was talking to people about like upstate New York and, and wine back in the day, like my parents were drinking like Franzia and having high balls during bridge night. So yeah, it wasn't until eventually I was at a Mac Grill for a while. And then I started working at Provence, which was suggested at the time by my GM, because he was like, You should probably take a step up. That's Greg Roach. He's awesome. And it was really I give him credit for kind of moving me on. But definitely a bigger one, this fine wine and French wine. But yes, it wasn't until moving south 2016. I moved down here to Atlanta. And that really was me making sort of the career move. I had always been in the business. I've always been a server and bartender, but this was me saying, let's go to a bigger market. And here we are.

Kelly C

17:38

I'm thinking about the places that you've worked in Atlanta. Now that you've been here. What has focusing on your own wine education now brought to your roles in beverage management, because you've been in the restaurant for a while. But then once you started studying wine, in particular, how did that change the way you interacted with guests, and performed in your role.

Jason Wilfore

18:00

So that transition was it all started South City Kitchen, which is the first place that I worked at when I moved here, because I was staying with my brother in Vinings. And it was right down the street. And he had gone there all the time. He's like, you gotta check this place out. So I went in, and I got lucky enough to get a gig there. And, yeah, I was interested not just in wine, but you know, stepping up sort of levels of service, and kind of putting everything together. And what I found there, you know, Southern cuisine was a whole new, you know, cuisine for me to learn, and actually fall in love with. I love that menu, but also the back bar. Another thing in upstate New York, even seven, eight years ago was whiskey, it was Woodford Reserve and it was maker's mark, and maybe they have bullet. So for me to see 60 Different whiskies, I was like, Oh, well, I have to learn that now. So I'm not an expert at all still in the world of whiskies, but that's kind of where it started. And the wine list was great. And so I kind of started digging in there. And yeah, got egged on by my beverage manager there at the time. And that's kind of where it all started.

Kelly C

19:11

And that probably changes the types of conversations that you're able to have, because it obviously opens you up to these other products that maybe you haven't used before. But also another way to connect with guests, through the beverages that you're able to recommend and speak to. I think I first connected with you a little bit later after South City Kitchen. I think I connected with you originally at Marcel. I think that's when I first ran into your work here in Atlanta, and that's fine dining. So I feel like you've you've kind of elevated the type of service that you're working around with the wine programs. And I take family and friends to a place like Marcel and they come to visit but how did it feel for you when you went to Marcel to get back on the floor because I know you were in beverage programs and then now you're back at the sommelier level with a really big focus on the beverages. So how did it feel to get back in the floor? or move away from beverage management.

Jason Wilfore

20:02

I loved it. It was it was sort of a purposeful move. You know, management is great, but think I had just recently passed my certified exam with the court. And I wanted to continue, and to try to do management and do all of that studying is very difficult. I'm sure it can be done. I'm sure it has been done. But I had an opportunity, you know, to go work with Josh at Marcel and to work with him and learn from him. And yeah, getting back to the floor was it was liberating. And like you said, you know, Marcel, yes, it's, it's upscale. But, you know, when you're behind the scenes, and not to take anything away from, you know, fine dining, it's steps of service. And so the key is, you're hitting everything, and then it becomes, you know, elevated attention to detail. And then because it is Marcel, then it's the show, and it's having fun. And it's getting the guests to, you know, how many people do in a steak houses and they're like, oh, my gosh, we're gonna spend so much money and so worried, I don't know I'm doing half of it is, again, we talked about openness is being open, allowing them to be open, and having a conversation, having an interaction and a dialog, well I'm here, I'm going to tell you everything you need to know. And we're gonna have fun, and we're gonna get you exactly what you're looking for. And hope you have a great time,

Kelly C

21:23

you get that immediate feedback when you're tableside, too. So I love that you are able to move into that space again. And you mentioned the balance of time on your own to pursue wine while also having your service role. So now it Mujo do you find time to pursue your own wine education? Are you currently studying for any particular exam?

Jason Wilfore

21:46

I'm at the very as far as my systems and how I study, just getting back into it. My goal is, after I pass my certified exam, my mentor asked me so what now? And I said, I would like to sit for the advanced exam. I didn't say pass, I said, I want a realistic goal, where I can do the work, which I get a lot of satisfaction out of, I can do the work, I can sit, I can try to pass this exam. And if I do, that's awesome. And then we'll see what happens. I'm not even talking about the level that comes after advanced. That's not even a discussion. But yeah, you know, just want to kind of continue, and I have the time, I just need to because again, it's been so long since I've been actively studying. And you know, we had a whole world event that kind of affected everybody in that realm. Yeah, I'm definitely gearing up to to start that road again.

Kelly C

22:44

Well, then it was the blind tasting competition that I feel was your welcome back. That's really what it was- you're back and you're back in the scene. I do think it's really important, though, to have those moments of being re inspired. And you said that you went on this trip out to California. So what was that a part of?

Jason Wilfore

23:02

that was, they would call it an enrichment trip. With Somm foundation, Somm foundation and Guild Somm and the Court. They're all kind of like adjacent to each other Guild Somm definitely being a resource that as students we all use. And then Somm foundation, they have scholarships, and you know, opportunities, you want to take an exam, you can apply and maybe get some, some cash to help with that they have a harvest internship that I know that they put those up every year. And then they'll have these enrichment trips throughout the year. So I had applied before and didn't get selected. And I saw this one for Napa and Sonoma. And I was like, well, let's just apply and see what happens. And I got picked. I don't know if I was nervous, or why I should have been nervous. But I'm like, Wow, I'm going to Napa and Sonoma. And finally going to these places that I've studied. And it was awesome. It was love at first sight. And so you know, there's all a bunch of us so I think we were all Somms, there might have been a beverage director in there or something. But it's a really good crew, and we get on the shuttle bus drive up. We were staying up in Calistoga. And so we're just driving up the Silverado trail. And I just was looking out the window taking pictures. It's just and right off the bat, it was instantly why I wanted to do it was perspective. You know, as students, we're always have our nose in the books, we love maps, I need more maps, you know, I love them. But you have, you know, this 2d representation that you don't get in person. And it was, oh, there's Mayacamas. There's the valley floor. This is wild. It's it was completely different than I had imagined it would be. And I don't know why. But it just was It was awesome.

Kelly C

24:47

And now you have that new foundation in your mind. You have that 3d picture. And so when people are talking about the characteristics of these wines and where they come from now you've got your own internal map for you Jason If so, I'm excited for this, to put all those pieces together, I do think it's really important to light up that side of your brain and be like I am here and I can smell everything. And I can see how it's all related. And it just will help you going forward to talk about these wines.

Jason Wilfore

25:15

Yeah and even the visits, day one was basically the vineyard visits, a couple of the winemakers were in there, and they're talking about their processes and all the things read about organic farming, dry farming, what is it, you know, you're looking at vines and seeing the soil types and the cover crops and how everything works. And now, you know, when I'm actually talking about ones that are imploring, there's definitely things that we're talking about as far as production and, and why we've selected these and why these producers in particular, and how responsible that they are. And we're able to, you know, be able to talk to people in a way that is very genuine and hopefully educational in a fun way.

Kelly C

25:53

Yeah, we're so lucky to have you go out there, pack it all up, bring it back to us here in Atlanta, you're probably still processing a lot of those key takeaway messages, or just, you know, thinking about how you're going to apply it now to the program's going forward. But we are so lucky that your intrigue was reignited. by that. I mean, if you're coming back here, and you're coming more to blind tastings, and you're excited to get back into the wine, education side of things, and we are so lucky to have you doing that here in Atlanta. And I know that we both really enjoy blind tasting even though you took some time off. I know that you also agree that it is a tool for navigating the world of wine. So I can't wait to hear how you approached these calls in the competition last week on Sunday. So should we should we go into the recap? You ready for this? Okay, okay, let's go because this was really fun. First of all, were you nervous at all? Or do you have any rituals? Before you blind taste? Did you do any of that that day?

Jason Wilfore

26:54

So I'll start off by saying, and this is kind of echoing my sort of attitude going in, you know, I'm still a noob. I, yes, we blind taste practice. But I still have that attitude. Like, alright, let's just kind of go in this, this idea of being open. There's nothing to worry about. There's nothing to lose. And so I say it in a very in a manner that's not arrogant at all. It's I don't mean to come across that way. I was not nervous on Sunday. I'm more nervous now than I was on Sunday.

Kelly C

27:30

Nervous to recap the experience? Gosh no need to be nervous now. Because you are sitting there with the kick ass trophy, you already accomplished it. So it's all good. But I do think it's really interesting always to ask people how they sit down for blind tasting, I still get a little bit nervous, I'm nervous to be wrong. And I'm really working on eliminating that step of the process, because that's just a waste of time. But in general, which approach do you use? Do you go by the Court of Master Sommelier type of grid are using more the WSET format? What approach do you use

Jason Wilfore

28:03

I haven't done WSET yet. That is a goal. Actually, I actually do want to do WSET 3 this year. Because I think that there's a whole other avenue of learning that you can get from that that can only enhance the Court. And I think I think vice versa. I think the more that you go with the Court, the more it still is about sort of service and our conversation that we have about how we're relating that as Somms, guests, and how we're bringing that to the experience. So I'm still 100% the Court. So coming in being open, everything's on the table, these are untestable. But I even think when you started the introduction, and sort of telling us what's up, I think you gave everybody at the table, a little bit of a little bit of confidence, or at least a bit of ease. Because the thing that I loved is that for each wine, it's about accumulating points, and that's very much what it is, as well with the court. You know, when you're blind tasting, it's not so much. Yeah, there's no way you're gonna get it. 100% right. And if you do great, you just got a whole bunch of points. But with these, you have the ability to succeed. You know, if you don't know what the grape is, but maybe you kind of know it's from the old world. And it smells French. I don't know that's two points, you know, you get that right. That's great. So that was definitely a reassurance to me that you know, this is structured in a great way. It's open, it's fun, and that was the other part. Let's just have fun.

Kelly C

29:37

We did play some fun music too. Hopefully that helped you all get into the right zone and fees.

Jason Wilfore

29:42

I mean, I was the fortunate one that I had Eric Crane to my right at each new tune that came on we're just looking at each other like Yeah, yeah,

Kelly C

29:51

I saw you guys light up at the Prince so I was very, I was very happy to see that. So yeah, the peace of mind. Again, helping with that curiosity and an open mind mind state. Did it help you that we gave parameters on each wine such as you know, this is the region that is typically testable, but not this grape or this grape is testable, but not from this region. Did that help you? Or would you have preferred to have it be completely unknown?

Jason Wilfore

30:15

No, that was huge. I think it was a great call, again, because it kind of gave us some structure. And in you know, we talked about structure in wine, that's not necessarily what we're talking about, but structure as far as All right, so we can get partial credit for wines, we kind of have an idea maybe we where we are or what we're looking for. So yeah, they were parameters that I think really helped enhance our experience, not just as a competition, but again, I think I also looked at it as a way of it's another blind tasting practice and I think a lot of people that were that thought that too

Kelly C

30:50

And connecting your theory because I thought if I gave you you know, this grape is something that you're typically tested on but maybe not as often or only at masters level or only in the diploma level. Are you going to ever see this great from this region. Then I felt like it also tapped into all of your theory knowledge to have placing where grapes are grown and then if it's not the region that I think it is, where else could this grape be from? So I had a fun time watching all of you put the puzzle pieces together. But for wine one, we had the six wines. We did the three whites. We did three reds. So we'll start with the whites. But for wine one, it was a South African Chenin Blanc. Yeah. What did you notice? And what was your final call on wine one?

Jason Wilfore

31:30

My final call was South African Chenin Blanc.

Kelly C

31:33

Oh, you nailed it. Well, you didn't know that you nailed it. Because we didn't reveal each one. We revealed them at the very end of the round. So you didn't know you nailed it.

Jason Wilfore

31:40

I didn't. And there's a lot of things crossed out. In this first one in particular, I smelled it and looking at it. I'm like, this could be Sauvignon Blanc. And then I'm like, not getting the fruit that I'm looking for like stone fruit, peaches, apricots, things like that. I'm getting a lot of like, apples and tree fruit. And Time's running out. And I'm like, how maybe this is Chardonnay from somewhere? And I think the clue was, I think it was classic grape, but not a testable region. And I had just I wrote down Chardonnay and Margaret River, which I think is testable. But I'm like, new world. Yes. And then somehow in my brain, I got this texture in there that kind of like little bit of texture that you get for Chenin Blanc then because I'm like, this isn't Chardonnay. it's not Chardonnay. So what is it, and it just popped in my head, and somehow, and I'm like, South Africa, Chenin Blanc. moving on.

Kelly C

32:35

that was as the timer was ticking down. This was a full like a 180. Which goes against all of the advice to go with your gut. But here you are making a total pivot and it worked out for you. So that was South African Chenin. And there were a few other people I felt that called Chenin on that. So that was pretty cool. Then we moved on to wine two, and I don't think they could have been more contrast. I actually wanted it to be aromatically so different. And that's why we put that one second, but it was a Chilean Sauvignon Blanc. So were you confident at all about your call? Because I think there were some people that were in Chile for this one,

Jason Wilfore

33:10

I was confident that it was Sauvignon Blanc. especially after going through everything I went through in the first one. And this is sometimes you know, what we do when we're blind tasting and I want to go back to the thing that you had mentioned, you know, that I had made this last second change, which usually never works out for me and often times doesn't work out for us as blind tasters. If you're trying to glean any knowledge from from what I did, and how to blind taste, I was grasping at straws, but I had to make a call there and I wound up getting it right. But for wine two, you know all those things that I was looking for in the first one or not looking for it because again, we're not really one more blind taste we're not looking for things in the wine to pull out were to see in one of their and this definitely read very much like Sauvignon Blanc to me, I didn't go new world because like the fruits there, and I'm thinking to myself if this is the new world, but it's not a testable region, kept New Zealand can't be Napa County, California, you know, whatever. I had never had Chilean Sauvignon Blanc. I couldn't call it that. I couldn't call it so I'm thinking of like ___ or something. So I did Old World Friuli Venezia Giulia because you know, you can have a little body and texture there but I got the grape. I got a little point for the vintage so it wasn't a complete miss.

Kelly C

34:36

Yes, I think everybody was pretty confident with the grape call. And then I do remember some people were saying Chile which is great, but how would that be on your map? It's not going to be in your database if you hadn't had it. So now you have it. So there you go, blind tasting champ, now you have Sauv Blanc from Chile on your radar. For wine three, the last of the whites. Where did your mind take you on this one because of the three this is the one we said is that the region and the grape are not typically testable unless you're at like, you know, the highest of the highest levels.

Jason Wilfore

35:06

Initially, and for most of the five minutes, I was where everybody else was, after we revealed and talked everybody was in Italy. And again, not having a lot on my brain to think about coming into the competition, I was thinking that we might see Vermentino or we might see like Gavi, or suave or something like that. So, I'm trying to again, I'm trying to shoehorn something in there. I'm like, alright, this kinda smells like an Italian white wine. But as time kept ticking down, I'm like, I don't think it is. Where else can you find something like this? That's right around the corner in the Mediterranean. That is, you know, you have Corsica and you have Languedoc-Roussillon and you have Provence, and I'm like, I'm just gonna call France. It's from the old world. I'm gonna say France. And I said, like, Grenache Blanc from lLanguedoc-Roussillon and it wound up being France. And this was the big thing that sort of got me where I needed to go because scored me a tiebreaker to be able to go to the finals.

Kelly C

36:06

Yeah, I don't think anybody was in France for that one. I really don't all the calls at the reveal were in Italy, it was the white grapes was a lot of Vermentino because this one was pretty limes zesty and salty. Like I felt like this one was a for me. I wanted to give you something that was a little bit more clear, Old World. I think this had a lot of that acidity. It had that structure to it. But yeah, we served y'all a little little Muscadet in there. So just threw that in, but nobody got that nobody. Okay, this was like the Yeah, this was the stumper one, for sure.

Jason Wilfore

36:35

And I'm surprised you know, we do it in blind tasting. We do it to try and get that sort of classic Muscadet less contact. That little bit of texture brioche English muffin a sort of stale beer thing, which none of us talked about. We're all just had other things on our brain as far as what grape it might be.

Kelly C

36:56

YBut you got France. You made it on. So you moved on from the top two scorers in the whites round. So you were already in the Final Four that we were doing. So in the reds, did you feel more comfortable approaching the flight of the three reds? Or would you say your wheelhouse is more in the white wine.

Jason Wilfore

37:12

I don't know if this is how people develop? Well, we're all different. We all have different frames of reference as far as sense memory, how we taste how we smell. And you know, I always felt that when I had started out, I was much stronger in red wines. And I think over time, and I don't know if it's just because I've worked so much harder on them because I've had to I feel pretty good tasting white wines now. So the Reds I went in, you know, as open as I was, and even knowing that, you know, I was going to the finals. I still wanted to do my best and try and get as much practice in as I could. Yeah, was not as good with the reds gotten my way. A little bit. But still fun

Kelly C

37:54

You were already in but then you're fine four - I think most people this is where I saw a lot of confidence in the discussion after seemed like most people were confident with the grape call on wine four, there were a lot of people telling me this is Pinot Noir. I look at it, I can read through it. It's not high in tannins. It's a thin skinned grape. This is Pinot, this is Pinot, but then it was like From where...so did you land on the grape even for this one?

Jason Wilfore

38:18

landed on the grape. And, again, not wanting to have lots of things in my brain. We pour some great German Pinot Noir on our standard pairings, so I become kind of familiar with it. And so I'm like I just keep an eye out for German Pinot Noir. So I got the grape here, but it didn't taste like Germany to me, Germany to me sometimes has a little bit of that stemminess little green herbaceous fresh um, so now I'm trying to steer somewhere and get it somewhere that I can kind of explain it. And I I put it in Argentina so I wasn't upset I was in the wheelhouse even though I'm an opposite side of the world. style wise. Yeah, I don't think that we're too far off on that one

Kelly C

39:02

And you were going high altitude possibly with the Pinot Noir on there from Argentina so no, I actually love that call. Because it was me pretty sharp. That was a sharp Pinot Noir to me. So I was thinking that some people might be led to some of the old world possibly there was someone shout out did nail this to the vintage on this call so it wasn't you but that's okay. You got the points. The points for the grapes. I did like that everybody was in the zone at the grape. And then I feel like everyone really enjoyed drinking wine five the second of the reds in the lineup. I don't know if anybody got it.

Kelly C

39:02

I don't think we did.

Kelly C

39:39

Yeah what was your call on this one?

Jason Wilfore

39:41

So my whole process here was first thing we do is look at and it's purple. vibrantly purple. Yeah, that color was was wild. And so when we kind of see this, we kind of go to Malbec. First, the staining of the tears you know you swirl the glass the wines kinda sticking to the glass, it's it's it's a thick skin grade. So Malbec is still on my brain. And to me when I'm thinking Malbec, Argentina, I'm in the new world this this one is all fruit. It's just it's big and fun and juicy and delicious. I had to think about Shiraz. But I called us a Syrah from Washington.

Kelly C

40:20

But I liked that call to I don't think you were the only one that did that. And there were a lot of Syrahs in the group. So that actually and the purple color was there. So this was our Petite Sirah from Paso Robles. Yeah. And I and I found it fun because there were a lot of people that were in New World for this, there were a lot of people that were calling California for this, but not even the grape. So this one I felt like was kind of in everybody's wheelhouse because you said the color was, you know, pretty unique, only certain grapes that it could possibly be. And then new world it was screaming New World. So I really enjoyed that people were calling, the heaviness of that and the alcohol content and everything

Jason Wilfore

40:55

And so we think about what we take away from these things. And I say this all the time, I have no problem being wrong. I love being wrong, because hopefully that way I can learn from it. And so it just kind of you know, if I have Malbec and Shiraz from Australia, I can add petite sirah that then you know, we can move on and then we can just in each individual moment where we're trying to you know, taste these grapes and figuring them out. That's just another little clue that maybe you can put in your in your toolbox.

Kelly C

41:24

Always building the database. Oh, so good. And then we came to wine six in the lineup the finale of the reds. Did this hit any of your classic Malbec markers because this was our French Old World Malbec But you were on the Malbec train for wine five. So what happened when you got to wine six.

Jason Wilfore

41:46

I didn't completely whiff. I knew it was in the old world. And I kind of got close with a vintage but I got these things that I get from German Pinot Noir. And I'm like, Are they gonna just really mess with us and pour another Pinot Noir? And That's what I called. I'm like, why not? So I got the stemminess, the greenness, that when you reveal what it was, I did a little facepalm because it's not this exact wine but we poured Cahors Malbec by the glass at Marcel for ever. So I'm quite familiar with Malbec from Cahors just didn't call it

Kelly C

42:25

just didn't call it because you thought I was messing with all of your minds and pouring another German Pinot. So that's what it was. You just thought you were me. You're in German Pinot land. Yeah. So you moved on to the final round from the first flight of whites. Then we went into the final four round. What was your thought process on this one? And I'm not going to say what it is. Yeah, cuz I just want to hear because everybody that made it to the final four. We watched you all intensely assess this wine. So what was what was your thought process?

Jason Wilfore

42:52

Not on purpose. But I made a call pretty quickly. And I made the conscious decision to not change it.

Kelly C

42:59

Oh, it worked the first time but you didn't try it again.

Jason Wilfore

43:03

so I'm in Italy right away. It's just sort of an intuitive thing at that point where smells like Italy. It tastes like Italy. And it steered me towards Sicily, because I thought it did have a lot of that sort of organic rock. You know from the volcanic soil ash. I thought it was dusty. And so in Sicily, I right off the bat pulled Nero d Avola. And that was my call for the grape and even the more I went back to it and smell it and taste it it it almost had sort of a Cabernet Sauvignon vibe to it, which to me Nero often does sort of mimic those things. Without like the green bell pepper pyrazine things that you get from cab. So I just said old world, Italy, Sicily. Nero d Avolva 2019 I just wrote it down about the first minute, minute and a half. And then in my brain said, I'm gonna sit here and join this wine. Yeah, cuz I mean that point. It's one of those things where like, you make your call, if we're in a real sort of testing setting, I'm making a call and I'm done. So at that point, I was just like, this has been great. I made it to the finals. Gonna make my call, enjoy the wine and see what happens.

Kelly C

44:13

That wine was meant to be enjoyed. That was my favorite wine to put in. I mean, I don't usually have favorites, but I was really, really excited to serve you all in Aglianico. Yeah, so you were all I think mostly in Italy of the Final Four, but you were just trying to place where and the types of grapes so you got really, really close to that. Did you call the vintage on that one?

Jason Wilfore

44:34

Looks like I got half a point for the vintage. One point for old world one point for Italy. And I said 2019. So it was either 18 or 20. I got to that point.

Kelly C

44:44

And you then were revealed to the entire group. As our champion. We ran over with a trophy with a tiara with a sash and then we gave you a stack of $200 in cash. What are you going to do with all all of your money, are you gonna spend it all in one place.

Jason Wilfore

45:02

I, I was so focused. And like I saw the tiara and sash, I totally forgot that you guys are giving our cash. So yeah, so I got that, actually put it in the bank yesterday, and I do have plans, I'm gonna buy two of the John Bonet books, the new French wine and his new California. I'm really excited.

Kelly C

45:22

Oh you're gonna invest it back into your own wine education. That makes a lot of sense. Jason, I love this. So, so much. Congratulations again. And thank you for walking us through the thought process. I think blind tasting is so much more than what people might think initially, it involves it's not just guessing there's so much thought process. And so I really enjoyed the way that you just walked us through how you approached each wine. So thank you for taking the time to do that.

Jason Wilfore

45:47

Yeah, no, it was a blast. It was a blast to do it. And revisiting this and thinking about it. That's, that's another way that we learn. You don't just call them and go and be like, I got that I didn't get that you really kind of take it and don't beat yourself up. You know, you learn not to do that. Hopefully, I feel like I've done a pretty good job with that. But just always just learning and growing and having fun in the process.

Kelly C

46:08

Always. That's why we keep coming back to wine. At least that's why I do I can't get enough of it. Because I'm always going to learn something. And I'm always going to have a good time with good people. So thank you so much for doing that. How can people connect with you if they want to learn more about what you do? If they want to come visit you at Mujo? What's the best way to reach you?

Jason Wilfore

46:25

The best way to reach me, you can catch me on my instagram @wilforejay. I don't post tons. But there's a bunch of content on there so you can kind of look through and see what I've done. I posted some of the Napa trip. Yeah, reach out to me. You want to you want to taste you want to go drink some wine. Let's have some fun? Absolutely.

Kelly C

46:45

I believe you 100% on that offer. Drinking wine and having fun is what you do. So thank you so much, Jason, and cheers to you until the next time. We blind taste together. I look forward to it.

Jason Wilfore

46:55

Look forward to it. Thank you so much. Thanks for the event. And thanks for having me. It's been a blast.

Kelly C

47:02

Thanks for tuning in to the a cork in the road Podcast coming to you live from Atlanta, Georgia, and interviewing people who are changing the wine world in the southeast and beyond. You can find more about a cork in the road at @acorkintheroad on Instagram and make sure to check us out on www.acorkintheroad.com See you soon guys Cheers.

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