TRANSCRIPT: 3 Strategies for Making Sure Every Student Belongs (feat. Dr. Bobbie Goodrum from Farmington Public Schools)
12:22AM Feb 23, 2022
Speakers:
Nikki
Bobbie
Keywords:
students
people
teachers
belong
classroom
diversity
achievement gap
school
assistant superintendent
second grade teacher
talk
impact
equity
educator
listening
create
integrate
district
type
changing
I avoid using the word tolerance and, and people were like, We are a district in which we are tolerant of everybody. And it's like, I don't ever want to be tolerated. If you tolerate me, I don't feel like you're welcoming me. You know, I don't feel like you have open arms toward me. I feel like you're like, you can stay your, your begrudgingly, you can stay, you know, no thanks. You know, I'm not looking for that type of relationship. And I don't think that our children in their relationship with school, it shouldn't feel that way they shouldn't feel tolerated, they should feel like, this is where I belong. You know, and I can tell I belong, by the way that my teachers treat me, by the way my parents are treated when they come in the building, by the things that I am taught, by being able to see myself positively reflected in the curriculum in the physical plant of the building, like on the walls in the classroom, you know, on the covers of the books in the library, you know, in the movies that we watch, in the stories that we're allowed to tell about ourselves that someone is listening to me to hear me and to let me know that I belong, that to me, is inclusion.
I'm Nikki Herta. And this is bright stories of hope and innovation in Michigan classrooms. The podcast where we celebrate our state's educators and explore the future of learning. Bright is brought to you in part by Meemic insurance company, insuring the educational community for more than 70 years. teachers and school employees visit meemic.com/quote. To see how much you can save today's episode of bright chat with Dr. Bobby Goodrem, Assistant Superintendent of diversity, equity and inclusion at Farmington public schools. Bobby shares her personal definitions of diversity, equity, inclusion and justice gets straight to the heart of why this work is so essential in Education offers a fascinating perspective on why the language we use matters, and leaves us with three strategies for making sure every student belongs. Dr. Goodrem. It's a pleasure to have you on the bright podcast today. Thanks for joining me.
Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.
We're kicking off season three by asking everybody, can you tell me about the most interesting thing that you're doing in your district right now?
I think the most interesting thing that we're doing on our district right now is our strategic planning, kind of and the committees that we have, I think that the way that our assistant superintendent for strategic planning and innovation has set them up. They're very community oriented, meaning that there was a you know, we put a push, we invited everybody in the community, like a social media push has been in the newspapers, we would like you to please participate in one of these eight committees. And we have students on the committee's too. And so it's pretty exciting a because of all of the stakeholders that it involves and be the way that we have integrated we just last year, we went through a pretty intensive Educational Equity audit. And the way that the committee's are integrating the findings from the equity audit into their strategic planning. So I really feel positive about using data from multiple sources, as well as multiple stakeholders that sometimes may not have good representation or good voice within our district. And we were really intentional about including all those types of groups. So I'm just, I'm just really excited to see the kind of goals that come out, and the kind of action plans that we developed, you know, that we developed to meet those goals, and move our district forward. So I think that's pretty exciting.
That is very exciting. And I can hear in the way you're describing it, just all the different communities that are being represented. And that does sound like it would create a really powerful vision. And I'm just wondering, what are you hopeful for? What kind of education can you see resulting for students?
What I'm looking forward to, and we and we've been talking about this so many times, families, legislators, you know, just people in general, our focus so much say on test scores and test scores are an indicator, you know, of a school districts success, I guess, but for me, like a better indicator is really what what happens to our students when they leave us, you know, who do they become How many of them become get a vocational certificate or go to two year college or go to four year college? How many of them are persisting? How many of them are really doing what we say our mission is, which is to create, you know, thoughtful, you know, global, thoughtful and productive citizens in a changing world global citizens? What does that look like? And how many of them are reaching that? Because yes, we can say, you know, 85% of our students are proficient in reading or are proficient in math. And, of course, you have to have those skills as well. But are we equipping our students with everything that they need in order to be that, you know, productive citizens, you know, in a changing world, global citizens, caring citizens? And so I'm hoping that we kind of established a monitoring systems and some metrics that help us look at that. Because to me, that's our purpose. So our outcome should not just be test scores, you know, sad PSAT, you know, that type of thing. But what, who are these humans? Who are these humans that we are impacting and have helped create? What are they doing outside of the walls of our schools? What is our contribution to the world?
You know, maybe it's probably just my position that I'm in, but I've never heard that conversation, you know, like, it's easier, obviously, to measure test scores, maybe, I don't know, but the act of actually attempting to capture and look at that as a metric like, you know, after they leave, you know, are they doing all these things that we wanted for them? So that's, that's pretty neat. I'm excited to hear more about how that goes. Can you tell me about a time in your life that you vividly remember falling in love with education,
I'm going to have to give give you some context to to this story. So I received my bachelor's degree was in health science, and had planned on going to school to be a physical therapist and worked for a year like in the National Rehabilitation Hospital in Washington, DC, then moved back to Michigan and worked at a couple of rehabilitation facilities as like a physical therapy aide. So we went back to was accepted in PT school went back, first day class sit there in my first day of class where I worked like spent an hour work into this, decided I didn't want to be there, dropped out of beauty school was in DC, what could I do with the degree that I had, thankfully, DC like everywhere else on planet Earth had has a shortage of teachers had a shortage of teachers and had a program where you could be certified, especially if you had a certain amount of credits in different subjects, I was a science certified because of the number of science classes that I had taken. So talked for year, first year, I will say was disastrous. Part of the reason that it was catastrophic was because I really went into it with the idea that I was going to do something else. So I did not invest myself into into into teaching. And so, but I also am a bit of a competitive kind of overachiever. Like, really could not see myself as not doing something well. So when I had my first evaluation with my principal, who, basically one of the things that she said to me, and this is a quote is, do you know what you're doing? And my, my answer was, basically, no, you know, and, and so, um, you know, as a part of the part of the program, I was in classes, and so really toward the middle of my first year, I started taking it seriously. And really investing and utilizing what I was learning in my classes. And really thinking about the impact that I was going to have on the lives of these students. I worked at a school in DC where all the students kind of came from the same housing tenements where 100% of our students were eligible for free lunch. So a very community based school where we provide it before school and after school because we were feeding the kids love, you know, breakfast, lunch and dinner trying to, to the best of our ability, but really started to take it seriously. And so toward the end of my first year when I became a model classroom for our reading program, and so from there after also was new Teachers will come in or other teachers will come in or coaches will come in for the program, they will always send them to my classroom to, to observe the way that I was able to work through this program, but being able to see really tangible gains, and really being able to see the impact that I was having on the lives of these little humans, you know, was very humbling, you know, very humbling and, and bury heavy, you know, the, the burden of shaping these lies and understanding that, as an educator, you are in a position of power to do, you know, so much good or so much harm, so easily. So, really, that is the point like, again, probably my first or second data cycle and looking to see how the students were reacting how their behaviors were changing in the classroom and in the school, and then just recognizing that I could link that immediately to my own behaviors, and, and what I was providing, and and then just just seeing the the, the power and the responsibility in that.
Wow. Thank you for sharing that. First of all. I think that story speaks to me a lot. Because, you know, you were saying that you that first year didn't quite go the way that you, you know, didn't go quite as well as you'd hoped he described as disastrous. And you could have chosen at that point to just get out, you know what I mean? You could have said, Oh, no, this isn't for me. But you know, you got that competitive little like, No, I want to do better at this. And then you get to see the result ahead on the kids. And just I like the way you describe that. That powerful, but heavy burden of the way the harm or good that you could do as an educator. And yeah, that that says a lot to me. But nevertheless, now today, you are an assistant superintendent of DNI at Farmington schools. And I do have a couple of questions just about, you know, what that role is all about, and a little bit of history there. And I thought it might be helpful for some folks who might not be super familiar if they're listening the podcast with D and I, for us to break down just some key terms. So to start, I'm wondering if you could just tell us what D NY stands for, just in case someone listening doesn't know. And what it means to you as an educator and as someone in this position.
Sure, and, and and lately, even though, I guess for copyright infringement reasons, they cannot change my title, but I've been calling it Jedi work, Jed where the j stands for justice, but a state I mean, the E stands for equity, the D stands for diversity and The I stands for inclusion. So when I think about Jed, I work again, just as this, um, justice is ensuring that the other components are met. So when I look at equity, equity is about for me, every student getting the resources that they need, in order to have the outcomes that they want for themselves. So you know, earlier when, when we were speaking about the way that we think about what is a successful school, and not being test scores, and then looking at outcomes for students. To me, it's not even necessarily like the outcomes that are like we need to see, you know, who graduated from from college or you know, who you know, who has a master's degree, it really is, how good were we at helping them to define their passions, and use those passions to set goals for themselves for their life. Um, so when I think about equity, it is about the way that we allocate resources in order to help our students reach their dreams, you know, reach their goals, and but but really helping them craft goes that make sense for what we know, is necessary in order to survive as an adult in life, you have to be able to pay your bills, you have to, you know, be able to do certain things that that means that yes, your passion may be music, but what else could you do besides be a rapper, you know, that type of thing. But, but equity is just really allocating our resources in a way that matches with our students needs, their individual needs. Diversity. When I look at diversity, for myself, and it's, it's a diversity of people, you know, but it's also diversity of thought, diversity of experiences. So when we look at diversity of people is not easy. even just looking at, so within our school system, I'll say within our school system, when we talk about diversity of people, and we look at the multitude of different identities, so it's more than race is more than ethnicity. It's also you know, whether or not they are LGBTQIA plus, you know, or, you know, if they fall in that spectrum, it could be diversity within religious beliefs, it could be diversity within political beliefs, could these are the types of things that lead to us being able to really encourage critical thinking and civil discourse to things that are woefully absent in some adult conversations that you may witness or participate in. And really, those are the types of things that help us avoid some of the situations that we get ourselves in, that become very painful for people around them, we have to learn how to, to respectfully disagree with with others, and steal, see value and worth. And people, even when we disagree with them, you know, see how their perspective Castiel add to your knowledge base, even if you don't adopt it, at least you have a better understanding of it. So, again, diversity also has to do with like, you know, um, native, you know, native language, you know, national origin. And also ability level. So we talk about a lot about, you know, ableism, and the way that there are so many structures that we have created, that become barriers or social structures that make, say, being neuro atypical or being having a different level of physicality, or physical ability, having those things be barriers when they really don't necessarily have to be if we look at those individual's strengths, and their goals, you know, should they still be able to meet them? Absolutely. Have we created some barriers? In some cases that prevent that? Absolutely. So, so to me, diversity is probably like the widest the widest category to explore, but something that a lot of people have a very narrow view on, like, they automatically think I'm talking about black and white, and I'm usually not, you know, I'm absolutely, actually, usually not. But that's the way a lot of people say it. And inclusion
is really, the idea of, I really, I really hate the word, tolerance. I don't like and I know, hate is a strong word. So I'll just say I avoid using the word tolerance. And, and people were like, We are a district in which we are tolerant of everybody, and it's like, I don't ever want to be tolerated. You know, I tolerate my children, you know, that's, like, when they come in, and I'm annoyed, and I allow them to leave the room. Without, you know, without going off on them, I have tolerated them. You know, but that doesn't feel like that, that if you tolerate me, I don't feel like you're welcoming me. You know, I don't feel like you have open arms toward me, I feel like you're like you can stay, you're being you're begrudgingly, you can stay, you know, no, thanks. You know, I'm not looking for that type of relationship. And I don't think that our children in their relationship with school, it shouldn't feel that way they shouldn't feel tolerated, they should feel like, this is where I belong, you know, and I can tell I belong, by the way that my teachers treat me, by the way my parents are treated when they come in the building, by the things that I am taught, by being able to see myself positively reflected in the curriculum, in the physical plant of the building, like on the walls in the classroom, you know, on the covers of the books in the library, you know, in the movies that we watch, in the stories that we're allowed to tell about ourselves, that someone is listening to me to hear me and to let me know that I belong That to me is inclusion. Okay? Not not just you know, you're there and you're a part of it. And now we can say we have you over here, you know, no, we believe in an inclusion here. We have this black girl with the black book, you know, no, it's also my friends are reading about me. You know, my friends know more about me my friends are seeing positive stories about people that look like me, you know, and and not just stories that make me look like the only thing that I ever was was a slave. You know, that's that's what I'm known for. That's what everybody that's all my friends know about black people is that they were slaves that doesn't make you feel belong, you know, like you belong, because that's the narrative that's still different from every everyone else's, you know, narrative. If you know your friends see and your friends are reading books that highlight and again, amplify the fact that you're the same, you might look different, you might have some different things about each other, but you're all human, and you're all worthy, and you all belong. That's inclusion.
I'm Nikki Herta and you're listening to bright stories of hope and innovation in Michigan classrooms. Right is brought to you in part by Meemic insurance company, insuring the educational community for more than 70 years. teachers and school employees visit meemic.com/quote to see how much you can save. today I'm chatting with Dr. Bobby Goodrem, Assistant Superintendent of diversity, equity and inclusion at Farmington public schools. Up next, we dive into what it means to be an assistant superintendent of DNI. Break down a few problematic buzzwords in education. Here Bobby's three strategies for making sure every student belongs. So I want to know just a little bit more about so what is your role as Assistant Superintendent of DNI a lot
of my responsibilities really have to do with capacity building. So everybody who knows me knows how I don't like to talk about achievement gap. But, um, but but there is this pressure again, because we put so much on so much emphasis on test scores, to to minimize achievement gaps, you know, I'd rather talk about opportunity gaps, you know, a cheap, big win. Because, for me, and again, language is critical. We already talked about tolerance. But when I think about achievement, I think yes, clearly, I'm responsible for my achievement, right? You hold yourself responsible for achievement. So when I think about achievement gap, and a gap, that when we talk about the gap, we're really ascribing it to groups, large groups of people, right. And so it's like, this large group of people are somehow responsible for, for this gap, because they're responsible for their own achievement, you know, so they're responsible for this gap, versus an opportunity, where opportunity, you know, yes, you are responsible for some of your opportunities, really, opportunities are what are given to you, you know, you're given opportunities, and what we know for sure, is that we have opportunity gaps, that then may result in some, some disparate performance on on assessments. And we won't even get into the background of how most statewide assessments or standardized tests and things of that nature what they were founded based upon, or why they were, why were they were developed, but it's just something but it is still a measure that people look at when they try to assess how great a school district is, or how great a school is, that's one of the things that people look at the achievement gap, you know, because, again, it's easy to quantify certain things, you know, you take numbers, and you can put numbers someplace, and people think that they understand the story, because they they know, they can understand that there's a difference between 180 You know, and so it makes them feel like they understand something, but it's such as it's a much deeper issue than that. And so, in this role is kind of getting to are these types of roles are getting at the heart of it, that's that's a symptom, it's not a problem, that gap is not a problem is the symptom, you know, but what is the problem? And the problem is, in some cases, the way that we are teaching all students, you know, the way the way that we think about all students, the way that we train students to think about themselves, so you know, that efficacy, what do are we making all students believe that they can, they can do it? Are we just making some students believe that they can do it, and some students were telling them, Hey, you're doing that's it that, you know, that's all you can expect to do? It's you, you know, so how are we building up the efficacy of, of each student's so these a lot of times these roles are about capacity building, and training, you know, training people to be reflective upon their behaviors, really towards
individuals versus groups. And I feel like that is one of the things that people don't understand about these roles. A lot of times when we talk about, say history, and we might show data about impact like income disparities, or housing disparity or incarceration rates or things of that nature. So, when we're doing that it's not, it's really to help other people reflect about why they might have preconceived notions about an individual child, because we're also trying that we're doing that, so that you can reflect, but we also are still, all of us telling you, every single child is an individual child, you know, and must be looked at, as an individual, you know, you should not be looking at someone, so you should not look at a student and think they're black student. And that means this, you know, they're a Latino student, and that means this, there are Asian student, and that means that you really have to take each child based on their individual, you know, the, you know, value. And so, in order to get people to do that, it takes a lot of teaching, you know, and, and it takes a lot of personal reflection. But again, what we know is that these one and Dunn's are not effective, like I can come in every year, and do anti, you know, implicit bias training, or do some culturally responsive teaching training or things of that nature. But if it's not thread into every policy, into every decision that we make, if it's not something that we're thinking about, there's not we're never going to move the move the needle, because those types of professional developments, those one offs, where there might be some tears, and there might be some reflection, but then if you don't see me for two more years, you know, you forgot it, you know, in some cases, you know, somebody may have kept something and have taken it with them. But most of people are just like, Oh, that was heavy, back to work, as usual, same old behaviors, nothing has changed. No, you know, students are still performing the exact same way on these assessments, we're teaching the exact same way, we're not integrating things into the curriculum that are going to be meaningful enough for these students in order for it to stick for them, you know, and that type of thing. So are we also many of us do a lot of work with other specialized with with other specialized populations. And when I talk about specialized populations, in this case, again, we don't make these categories up. All right, these are federal categories, all of our federal categories. And so sometimes we get funds that are specific to those categories. So yes, low, you know, low income students. at risk students, like there's a bit of bit of money that is just for at risk students at risk is another term that I am not a fan of, but at risk students in our English language learners get, there's a certain amount of federal funds that go into that, then there are like that there's ADEA, section 504 of ADA, which, you know, again, our students who may not be eligible for special education, but still have some needs that require accommodation. So we kind of work with those specialized populations. In a way I would, I would say, I always think of myself as being over a specialized student services, so services that are, you know, specialized kind of based on some federal identifiers or categories that they've been placed in.
Yeah, there's a lot there. I'm thinking of the one thread that I'm picking up consistently, right with achievement gap with at risk students with tolerance. You're, you're doing a really beautiful job of even pointing out, you know, to me things that I didn't think twice of that, I can see what you mean about the even what you didn't, you know, explicate on at risk too much. But even just you kind of lumping it in with that category makes me think, oh, I can see how that would be problematic, because in a way it at least the reading I'm getting, it's like, the way I interpreted that was, oh, that could be like a self fulfilling prophecy in a way, like you're already at risk. So
what you know for sure is it doesn't sound good, right? Like, like you, you don't want to be labeled at risk. Do you for anything? Yeah, it doesn't. It does not. It does not say, hey, this kid's full of potential. That's not what it says.
Yes. And the same thing with the achievement gap. I think that that's, that makes a whole lot of sense. Like, it's a difference between saying it's a subtle variant of placing blame, you know, it's like, achievement gap puts it on you. And it's your deficiency, or it could be interpreted that way.
Right? Yeah, it makes it seem like there's a deficiency achievement gap at risk. Those type of words to me are the types of things are even even, I mean, and you can't there's no way to do it. But even when I think about students who are eligible for for special education and you think about disability versus Different ability and you know, there's all these other words, but the thing is, all of these things kind of pathologized those groups. And we say that there's something wrong with that group that we have to fix. Not there's something wrong with our system that is creating these inequities and these and these opportunity gaps, and these disparities within those groups is again, but theologizing, the group saying there's something wrong with the group that we have to fix, we're putting blame on the group.
Okay, let's dig into our three things. So today, we're talking about three strategies for making sure every student belongs. So what do you got for us for number one,
really, the number one thing that I'm going to say is to see them. Okay, I'm going to say to see them. And when I talk about see them, I'm speaking of seeing them as a as an as an individual. So many times, our students don't feel seen, you know, they don't, they don't feel seen. And when I say seen, I mean, don't see a, you know, a black woman in front of you see, Bobby, you know, and when, and in order to see them, that means you have to listen to them, that means that you have to, and hear them, and and pay attention to them. So seeing them means giving them the opportunity to tell you who they are, before you have decided who they are, that's what seeing somebody is, you know, giving them the opportunity to tell you who they are, and you're not trying to tell them who they are, or you're not making a decision about who they are like that, that makes that makes a really big difference to not make assumptions about them based on whatever, say, you know, whatever identifying characteristics are what some other teacher told you about them, or what you heard about the family, but allowing that student to be their authentic selves and using them for who they truly are. Okay, so that that seeing and listening. The second thing that I would say, is to use that information. So once you know who they are, you know, you've seen them, you you've listened to them use that information. And even in saying, for instance, like I would say, I'm going to use high school as an example, because elementary teachers have an opportunity to talk to their students, let's say they have 30, let's say it's a school with a real high ratio is 35 kids, but then the year, even with 35, kids, you'll get to know them, you should get to know all of them pretty well. And thought secondary level, you might have 150 kids, you know, because you have a different group of kids who are coming in your room, every, every hour, and it's a little bit more difficult to form those relationships. But if you're paying attention likes to pay attention piece, and you see like a pen, I will say a pen on the backpack is more telling than a t shirt because I'm just using my own son, as I hit on a smashing pumpkins on T shirt the other day, I was like, Oh, you like like you like smashing pumpkins just like, and I'm playing songs like, No, I don't even know who they are, I like the t shirt. I was like, okay, you know, whatever, you know, you can't trust the T shirts that the kids are wearing, but they have a button on their backpack, chances are, that's something that they're into, I don't care what you teach, there are ways to integrate student interest into your subject matter. And when you do that, it is more engaging to them, and they are more likely to interact with you, with their classmates and with the subject matter and feel again, like they belong, because it's a piece of them, that's integrated into the curriculum when you see yourself. And when we talk about see yourself, we're not always again, talking about, oh, there's a black person in there I see myself, it can be something that you like, it could be something that you're interested in something that you're passionate, you still are seeing yourself in that content matter, it does not have to be, you know, we we really always tried to funnel people down to their to their most visible identity, which may not even be the identity that is most personal or or most affirming to them in the way that they see themselves. You know, so so the second piece would be to integrate. So one was like, see them listen to them. Two is is integrate and number three is
and this is the easiest one to me. You know and you don't even if sometimes you're not you don't even have the time to do the first two that I talked about just in time things are busy. The place to start is to is to care. It's just to care. Just to care. And my goodness. And I don't say this lightly because As I really want you to authentically care, but fake it till you make it. And that my end that is saying hello to students, learning students names, saying goodbye to them as they leave the classroom, asking them how their day is just when people again ask almost attached to the, to the see but this the thing in the lesson is a deeper thing but the caring piece showing that you care if you see them with a frown, ask them what's wrong. A lot of times, especially in high school and middle school, students might be resistant to talk to you, but at least they'll remember that you act and someone cared. Show that you care in any way that you can, because students absolutely feel isolated. If no one is speaking to them. Not even the adults in the class, like not even the adults in the building are speaking to a student. Can you imagine how isolating that is? You know, it's extraordinarily isolating. They there's definitely no sense of belonging that comes along with that we really have to as educators, like that's our job, our job is to teach. And this is Oh, this is one of those corniest things. And I really hate this saying but this is
so true. Like they don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care. Like that is like one of those kittens hanging on there hang in there baby like very trite
sayings. But it but that is, but it is absolutely true. It is absolutely true. If you just speak kindly to them, they will be more responsive, they will be more engaged, they will interact more, they will see themselves in that classroom as a member of that community. They will feel like they belong.
You got me laughing so hard to the kittens. Kittens hanging? Because I could picture it so clearly, like kittens like angel wings, and the quote. Sometimes these trite things, sometimes it's like live laugh, love, and you're like, okay, but you know, there's truth to that too. Right? Right. Sometimes there's a good reason that these things hang around, because they do point to some very fundamental truth, even if they get cliche, and they're over usage. So yeah, thank you for sharing those three strategies with me. And what really strikes me is you know, you talk a lot about how your role, and this does seem important, really important that to have somebody as an assistant superintendent, at that level, you know, in a district to be able to cuz you said, all these trainings that you do, right, it, they're, they're good, they're awesome. But if you don't, if they're not wrapped into every policy threaded into every, you know, into evaluations, right, then they're just kind of one off things. And so it does seem really important, first of all, to have you there, or somebody like you and your position, you know, to be able to influence policy, because if you can't, then it does, you know, you're not able to fully get across what you're trying to accomplish. But when it comes down to the individual level, what I'm seeing in these strategies is we have a lot of system change to do, right. And that's what you're you're working on, and there's a lot of people working on fighting that fight. But when it comes down to individual teachers and students, you know, it doesn't have to be, you're saying, don't always don't look at somebody's visible identity and assume it's the one that matters most to them. And it really boils down to what a lot of really, you know, a lot of the teaching advice that you start to hear a lot of things that boil over, as I'm doing the season with three strategies. It does boil down to those relationships, you know, and so I really appreciate you taking the time to sometimes it's just going back to the heart of the matter, but your stories that you've given, and the examples that you've given, remind us that you know, at the end of the day, when it comes to interacting one on one with another human that that's what matters. So thank you exactly. One question I actually want to ask if we have time for it is can you tell us about a time where you saw a shift in the classroom? Or a school where a student went from feeling like they didn't belong to developing that sense of belonging? And, you know, if you can think of it, what caused it? And why was it such a profound impact on the student like what change did you see in that student?
Is that so that is that is difficult from this stage? Because even though I have I say I've written it in my contract that no but I've been very clear to our superintendent to our board that I will only stay in this position if I had certain things and these certain things are my access to the student clubs. Like I have a district diversity club and I have and I also participate in our student roundtable. And these are two kind of district level clubs. I'm just because I I need to be connected to kids like I can't if I were to sit here and just eat go training, you know, principals or just go train teachers and was not spending time with with students at all, I would not do this job I would not enjoy the students steel are the reason? Well, they're clearly the reason that I do what I do, but I have to see them however I know that say Okay, so I can give you I can give you an example, I guess. Now I can't give you an example just based off of one of the something that one of my students said earlier, and she brought it up as a point of pride. So right now, some of our middle school students are beginning to start GSA, GSA clubs and GSA can either stand for like we used to that thing used to be gay Student Alliance, but now they're calling it gender and sexuality. Wait, but is it gender, sexual, gender, sexual gender, sexuality, awareness, clubs, really just trying to bring more understanding to the whole sparks spectrum of gender and sexuality, the differences between gender and sexual sexuality, etc. So one of the students in our diversity Club was talking about having that space now something that she she started, you know, at a middle school, you know, which is, is different because, even though we're seeing presentations of nonconformity as early as elementary school, now, elementary parents say her super resistant to really the topic being being brought up because, again, a lot of people conflate sexuality with sex, you know, like, you can talk about sexuality, you know, or, and they conflate gender and sexuality, and then they couldn't conflate sexuality with, like, we're not talking about, we're not talking about relationships, you know, we're just saying that, you know, you know, so and so, you know, or, you know, Anthony now wants to be Tony in and is they them, you know, we don't have any student named Anthony named Tony going through this, as I just made that up, just FYI. Everyone for student privacy rights. But, um, but we do have students as early as elementary school, whose parents are letting us know, that their students pronouns are them, and they there's and, and are now so parts of my training and support that I'm providing is for second grade teachers, on how they talk to their class, about why they call their friend, they and and that he, or she, you know, and that type of thing. So just saying all that to say that, you know, by the time those kids get to middle schools, if we're starting in elementary, then maybe it will be different, but for this particular student, being able to form having supported at the school, have allies and CO conspirators join her inner school, do you know, to let her know that she was supported, you know, is something that made her feel that she belonged. And again, it's giving her a space. And for students, we need to have safe spaces. But to me, always, we talk about, we're talking more about brave spaces, and safe spaces, just really trying to start off even with the idea of, listen, we can try our best, but I can assure everybody's protection everywhere, you know, there are going to be people who, who who don't like what you have to say or who have an issue with who you are, but you need to be brave enough to be your authentic self. And so she she was brave enough to try to create a space that felt safer for her. And so with that, and with support of teachers, you know, and administrators, she felt like that was something she could do. And and she did it. And so now she has a place, she created a space for herself because she didn't think one existed.
So I can see definitely how that would be very powerful for that student to have. Not only to have the space, but also just to have the teacher support it, you know, had to have some adults in the building supporting it. And then also to be able to not presume by virtue of being a club have other students that are peers, you know, that they can have these conversations with they can build friendships with whatnot and whatnot. I wonder obviously, maybe it's too soon to speculate, right? And you can't say anything for sure about this given student. But what impact do you think having these these opportunities to feel safe and belong? What impact does that have on a student's education if they can feel that way at school? So,
okay, and I hate to give you like the, we're gonna get scientific now whatever. But when you look okay, so when you look at Maslow's hierarchy of, of needs, so at the bottom is safety, you know, and and when they talk about safety really for for for that piece of safety is like food, shelter, you know that type of thing. So when we look at learning, and we look at your ability to access content and your ability to concentrate on with a hand and your ability to positively, positively integrate yourself into curriculum and engage with others, like how do you engage with other people, if you feel like there's a wall, there. And so when we talk about belonging, we're talking about breaking down these walls, because when you don't feel like you belong, you feel like there's a wall around you. And so that wall prevents you both from engaging with other people and engaging in content. So, so just by virtue of that, and there's a lot of research to support that like belonging, you know, and belonging is a piece of self esteem. And all of these things have been found to be factors that impact how a student performs in school.
That's great. You can get scientific on me anytime. Listen. Yeah. Alright, last question. Can you tell me about a teacher who had an impact on your life?
Who I feel bad for, I feel like this teacher is probably so sick of me saying her name and would like for me to keep her name, her name, Mama. I'm talking about Ms. Net. Who was my second grade teacher. This is so funny. Because like, like, when I graduated from Renaissance High School in Detroit, and I had like a three, eight, you know, three, it used to be a big deal then, but now there's like 45 AP classes. And so kids are graduating with five tunes and things like that, but but that three, eight minutes to be and we were able to bring one teacher, you know, who impacted their life and I brought Miss Mays my, my second grade teacher to that superintendents. Excellent. Excellent, um, dinner. So but still, she still is, um, very impactful. To me. Um, I I went I skipped from kindergarten to second grade. I did like half of your kindergarten half of your first grade because halfway through kindergarten, my kindergarten teacher moved me into first grade. And so second grade was really my first year of school with you know, with one teacher and really miss Mays, when I think about I've never had any self efficacy has never been my issue. self efficacy, I'll say has never been been my issue. Like, my identity has always been from a very young age, my identity was predominantly impacted my self identity was was was all about intelligence. Okay, it was all about intelligence. And I really feel like Miss Mays was the the first teacher and who knows, maybe everybody felt like they were a, you know, a special genius. And that might be the power that's really the power if you can make everybody feel like that. But she made me feel like that I'm boy, you can tell me nothing for the rest of my life. Like still today, no one is able to tell me a thing. I learned, you know, I learned but I go into learning situations knowing I'm going to learn and maybe that's piece of it like that, the the importance of learning and continuing learning and the idea that you can learn from any, any one any, any where any space that that all the stimuli that you intake, you know, is is adds to your learning. I think that was where that realization started for me in the second grade with Miss Nancy.
Delta doubt, it's challenging work to make sure every student belongs in school, not in spite of their differences, but an act of celebration and welcoming these differences. But with leaders like Bobby, forging our path forward, if there's one thing we're certain of, said the future is bright. You know, someone who's an inspiring Michigan educator who should be featured on our show, send us an email at Bright at Michigan virtual.org to let us know who they are, and why you should interview them. Thank you for joining us for this episode of bright stories of hope and innovation in Michigan classrooms. This podcast is produced by Herbie Gaylord is hosted by me, Nikki Herta is shaped by many of our passionate and talented colleagues. Big thanks to Ed TIMKI, Cassie Harris, Mabel Fox, Terrance Wilkerson, Ana Boyer, Sara Hill, and Brandon Battista for their contributions to this episode. Right is brought to you in part by Meemic insurance company, insuring the educational community for more than 70 years. teachers and school employees visit meemic.com/quote to see how much you can save. The bright podcast is made possible by Michigan Virtual nonprofit organization that's leading and collaborating to build learning environments for tomorrow. Education is changing faster than ever. Discover new models and resources to move learning forward at your school at Michigan virtual.org.