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This is playing around with Paige Renee.
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the playground podcast. We have Amanda and Teddy with us today. We have so much to discuss. So I think we just get right into it. I think the biggest story that we have to lead off with is that Liv is suing the PGA Tour and everyone is pissed about it. I think throughout this entire process, most of the players have just been pretty, you know, like you know, we support them. We liked them, but now they're not too happy. We've had Joel Damon come out and be really you're mad about it. We've had other players Billy Horschel. And I just want to hear your take on it because this is this is kind of bad. Big
we know Teddy is a live fan. We know Teddy is like kinda on the side of being a live sympathizers. So I don't know, I think it's a little bizarre. Like I wonder if it's a panic move by these guys. Like if they were kind of pressured into signing really early on and then realized, holy crap, I'm we're not going to make majors like we haven't gotten more ranking points how I you know, the three guys was the Hudson Swafford, Taylor Gooch and Matt Jones are all top 30 right now in the FedEx Cup ranking. So they were poised to not only keep their torque card, but to play in all four majors next year to make a lot of money. So it was kinda like, you know, you've decided to go take money elsewhere, just just go do it and be quiet. And you got to get Dustin Johnson credit in this and even I guess Brooks Kafka, like neither of them have bashed the tour, neither of them come out to say like eff the tour, blah, blah, blah, we're gonna sue them like they they stayed out of this lawsuit. So you gotta give them credit.
Yeah, I've been on the side of reality this whole time. And when we first talked about it, kind of early spring, and people thought, it's not gonna go anywhere. And I say, Well, money speaks and all the people on Twitter who were saying they'd never do anything like that. Well, if you got offered $750,000 a year to do live social media, are you sure you'd say no? If you definitely say no, then you can definitely take the moral high ground. But live has been even more successful than I anticipated. But, you know, last week was a declaration of war. I think a lot of the guys on the PGA Tour, were willing to say, okay, these guys are gonna play offs, we're gonna make money, especially the guys in their, you know, 30s and 40s. This is their last chance to cash in. But now it has become intensely personal. And we're going to find out about this temporary restraining order. I think Tuesday whether these three guys are going to get into Memphis. So the plot has thickened big time.
What do you think, Paige?
I'm past that. They're suing because it's like you took the money? You decided to go over there? And honestly, yeah, like what Tony said, probably a lot of other people would do the same thing. And I have no problem with that. But I do have a newfound respect for like DJ and Brooks, because they're staying out of it. They're like, You know what we did, we decided to go over here. We, you know, this is this is our decision. But these other guys, they're like, Well, I want to play here. But I also want to play here, and I want to make money here. And I also want to make money here. It's like, No, you can't do that. And there's a big discussion around independent contractors. And I think a lot of people are getting that really confused. So technically, I'm an independent contractor. So I can do whatever I want, whenever I want. But I have signed contracts with certain companies. And so I can't go and work with one company and then go work with their competitor to double my money. That's just not how this works. And so I think a lot of people are really confused about that. And I think what I'm doing is pretty consistent with what the guy's on the PGA Tour. And maybe there's not a clause in there, there's a non compete, but you have to act in good faith. And that's not what these guys are doing. They are hurting the PGA Tour, who has built them up who has given them so much money who has that the reason they have this opportunity is because of the tour. And I just think it's a really shitty move. And as we know, Taylor Guzzi is not very smart and you know, it's showing right now
yeah, in in page to your point I love that you just made that comparison, like you are an independent contractor, although you do work with companies now, that's an important thing because I'm looking at some current PGA Tour players who are like out there tooting the horn for live and like, the PGA Tour needs to do better. And f this and you know, live is doing so great. But, sir, you might not be technically an employee of that company. But like, if you're sponsored by pointsbet, you're not going to run around and talk about how great other sports books are like, that's what I mean like and that's a great comparison there. You can't go around bashing the people that give you money, you can't bite the hand that feeds you. So then that's when I kind of have issues with guys that rather than just being quiet about everything are kind of like coming out as Pro live when it's like, you really can't do that and like to then and then on the independent contractor side like they are employees of live like Jay Monahan put that in his letter, like when they said like, this is the litigation stuff, blah, blah, blah. These are employees of the Saudi golf league is what he calls it. And that that's the difference between the PGA Tour and live like these guys. They don't want to play less golf. Well, guess what you're gonna be playing 14 events next year that you're required to play? On top of the four majors for the guys that are exempt for all four, we'll see if they are allowed to play at Augusta. So I think I think just the kind of the whole issue is like people are kind of perverting the term independent contractor and they just don't really seem to get it.
Yeah, I mean, I cannot appear on a Caesars ad with the Manning family and JB Smoove. But I don't know, let's pretend the Action Network says Teddy. What are you doing next week? I'm not sure what I can do. So
not a competitor not a sports book. Right Action Network gives out betting information. So that's a little bit different. Now they work with points that right they have shows they have the rebels stopped at sponsored by pointsbet. So that is a little different. But you definitely couldn't go out and do stuff. perceivers
Well, that's the thing. It's like, are they going to then find a happy medium where they work together? Yeah, Davis Love came out. And he made a ton of really great points. And he basically said like, as it's going now, it's bad for both tours. And I think that's what we're seeing is that there's this great divide. It's not beneficial for either side. And they either need to work together or this is really bad for competitive golf. And I've said this before, I am not anti lib. I am not anti the PGA Tour. I am pro golf and I just really want to see this to work out and with the lawsuit. It just a bad move. And you know, it came out that Phil Mickelson was suspended because he's recruiting players to the lifter. Yeah, if I would suspend him too. I think that is like a really shitty thing to do. I don't approve of that.
He made his 200 million it certainly wasn't because off because he can't break 75 or 76 right now. But yeah, I mean, this is this is America, in America, like you have these disputes. And then the lawyers always win. And it's determined by a court case, because these players they feel like they should be able to play all the tours, they should be able to play the DP World Tour. And if they want to play in Canada, they can play that, and maybe the Latin America and all the different tours. So from their perspective, they didn't necessarily, I mean, they signed on with the PGA Tour, but maybe they didn't necessarily agree with all the terms. So it's going to be fascinated see how it is and and very savage Jay Monahan does still go with the Saudi golf league name and, you know,
in the thing that, that that and you make the point like they want to go play Latin America, or they want to go play web tour, Korn Ferry, whatever it is, now, they can't do that they have to still get a release from the PGA Tour if even if they wanted to do that, I believe but if there is another event in the United States of America, the same week that the PGA Tour is playing an event in the United States of America, like you, you have to receive a release like you are no, I think, actually, you have to play the PGA Tour event. Like you can't play another tour in the same country. Like that's why it's not that much of an issue. If the guys wanted to go over and play Europe because they get the release. It's in a different, like, it's a different place. But you
get a release for the Saudi event in what was it February? Yeah. And
they always do they always get the releases for other stuff, you know, if something they want to go play the Norwegian open or whatever, like Viktor Hovland has to apply for release, he's obviously gonna get it, but he still has to apply for it. Like there have been rules in place for a really long time in terms of playing on competitive like other competitive tours and whatnot. And it's like the fact that these guys are acting like one the rules haven't been there the whole time. And two, that the rules don't matter.
It's a sense of entitlement. I think that's been my frustration the entire time. I actually think that the Live tour and the PGA Tour could work together. And it would actually enhance the viewing experience for the viewers because what's going on right now is not good for us. Let's just be honest, it's not good. And it's not good for golf. And so again, that's what I disliked. But if you take some of the weeks that we don't really care about in the PGA tour schedule and replace those with the live events, which are a shock on a team event like that's actually exciting. Eating. And there's a lot of things that they are doing that I really do like. And I think it could be interesting, but they have to work together. And I think the frustration with all of this is that it's not coming out of a pure place. It's not to improve golf, it's not to grow the game of golf even. And that's what everyone is saying. It's greed. It's coming out of greed and entitlement. And that's my frustration with Greg Norman. He's being petty. And that's why it's not working well. But it could, this could have been an amazing thing, even with the players with how they're handling it. Now, they could have gone about this in a really productive, positive way. And when they were going to the other tour, they could have said, we want our media rights. We want our travel to be covered. We want our caddy to guys to be treated. But we either why we are leaving. And then I think it would have been a positive discussion on the PGA Tour side to be like, Okay, those are your issues. Let's fix them. But they're like jumping ship and they're like, we're so happy. We want to play less golf. We don't want money. We want to grow the game. They're like, now we're suing you because we want to play more golf. And it's like no, that no one is being honest. And that's the problem for me.
Yeah, Paige, like Mickelson says that's what he's been asking for for years. And he had no leverage. I mean, until live, the players had no leverage. I mean, until live and all these other tours came out like they didn't, they didn't have pit money, like pit money came out because the tour said, Okay, we got to find a way to just shovel 10 million more to Tiger so he stays loyal and get more money to fill. Maybe he'll cancel this. So and so you have a threat, nobody's just going to start giving you money. And that's why they did it. And at one point, I think people are forgetting like these last three weeks, the PGA Tour, where all the stars I mean, all these players who support the PGA Tour like where's Justin Thomas, where's Jordan speed? Where's Scottie? Scheffler like these guys? Like? A lot of them haven't played in the states since June. So I mean, I think he would help do it help their case and help the tourists case if these guys play and more of these events?
You know, I like your points about like, there are way like treat the caddies better, you know, help with travel expenses. Like, I know, if I were in charge, my thing would be maybe give like got caddies, or guys in their caddies give them like a 3000 $2,000 stipend for the week. Like, even if it doesn't pay for all of your travel and everything that still helps, right? Like what what would you do, Paige, if you were in that position? to pitch to Jay Monahan like, these are ways to improve the quality of life for players for caddies, what would you do,
you know, it's really difficult because I think when anyone can relate to this, we all have issues in our jobs, right? There's always something that we can complain about, that needs to be improved. And most of the time, it doesn't happen. And so for these PGA Tour players, they are getting to travel to these amazing golf courses. They're making millions and millions of dollars, they can set their schedule, they can choose what they want to do when they want to do it. And so sometimes the thing that they're complaining about, again, goes back to a sense of entitlement. You know, James Wan had these series of tweets that were so incredibly out of touch. And it's like, yeah, so you're asking for them to cover your expenses. Okay, maybe we can add that maybe we can add better accommodations for caddies. Okay, we can add that, but at what point it's like you keep sucking these guys off, it's like, they're going to keep wanting more and more and more and more. And where does it stop? You know, at some points, like, Yes, you are an employee. And there are things that you have to do in your job that are really fucking shitty, and you have to deal with them. And it's like, because it's a player organization. It's like, we want this we want more, we want more we don't want it's like stopping a fucking baby about it. You get to play golf for a living, you are making millions and millions of dollars, James Holmes, like I missed my first the first day of school for my daughter. And like, you didn't have to do that. You didn't have to do that you are not the only parent in America who has had to miss a big milestone in their children's life. And you know what, James Hahn up $12 million, and your career, and you set your schedule. And if it was that important to you, you could have decided not to play to fly home, and to be their parents have to work three or four jobs all day long to make ends meet. And like that's the problem. So yeah, when these guys are complaining, it's really hard to take them seriously. Maybe Jay Monahans, probably like, well, you're making a lot of money. And not just on course, we're forgetting all of the sponsorships and how much they're making off course to it. So it's really hard to feel bad for these guys right now. And I understand there's things that probably need to improve. I'm sure that the tour should have listened to a little bit more. But same things gonna happen with live just because you jumped ship doesn't mean that you know, the grass is always greener on the other side. And if they're paying Phil Mickelson $200 million, you really think they're gonna be like, don't worry about it. Phil, like, you don't have to do anything. No, there's gonna be a lot more obligations and I think down the road, a lot of players are gonna be like, Oh, maybe it actually was better on the PGA tour because I did have more freedom, and I was able to do what I wanted and it was more of a player organization but now it's not so much so it's going to be interesting to see how this progresses and bothers me.
So lift that was great when you're happy to join you in you we knew or an exemption category like James Hahn is you can kind of pick and choose. And he's got a really mediocre CZ, he's missed a lot of cards. I think he's already still made about a million dollars on course, like, what more do these people want? Are these people just pissing their money away? Like do they just only have a concept of cashflow and not saving? Like when you made 50 million on course, and then another probably 100 million and sponsors over your lifetime? Why do you need more money and then and that brings me back to Charles Howell. It's not about the money that just retired just
about the money that just fucking retired, the only one who's been honest, it's been Bryson and on it's like, third or fourth, try finally said, it's a business decision. That's what it is like, you know, you're gonna lose sponsors, you're probably not gonna be able to play in the Ryder Cup, which hurts your marketing. But you got this truck full of cash coming here, look, to me, it all comes down to the majors, if these guys are allowed to play in the majors live is going to thrive if they're not allowed to play in the majors. I would think these guys are gonna try to jump ship back the other way.
Do you think with the the Masters is, you know, the first major and that's the one that I still think is teetering back and forth on if they're gonna let them play or not. And honestly, now with this lawsuit, I think they have less power going up against Augusta National Golf Club, then they do the PGA Tour. Those are the most powerful men in the world who are members there who run that event. I mean, it's kind of scary. I almost feel like it Gus is gonna be like, Bring it on. Like we're, we're not gonna let you play and bring it on then. Yeah,
because I know Fred Ridley was named in the deposition. It's called a deposition right, or lawsuit or whatever it is in saying that I guess what, a few months ago they held the meeting and was like this is we can't have this and XYZ and I don't remember exactly his words. But I do think that is really interesting that Fred really is getting involved because I heard from someone who works very closely with Dustin Johnson back in beginning of March, he was saying like, DJ originally, I can't remember if DJ ended up going and playing in Saudi this year or not. But like Fred Ridley had called DJ according to this guy who works very closely with DJ and was like, what, what are you doing? Like, I guess maybe it heard when that DJ want to join live or something. But Fred Ridley was on the phone with DJ like in February. So I just there's so much going on behind closed doors that we're just not even aware of, you know, and it's like right under our noses, but we just don't entirely know the extent of everything and it's like I kind of wish we did a little better and I think the lawsuit is kind of helping us
during the lawsuit. We're going to see text messages. Yeah. I mean, all of the dirty laundry is going to be aired and that's also another reason as a player why would you want to get involved in that? I don't think they realize like how much is going to be released publicly. And I wouldn't want my text messages going back and forth for that to be public. You just don't want that type of interest in your personal life to be out there.
Yeah, if you're PHIL You don't want to open your books you want everybody to know what's been going on in your life probably for the last six months and you know I'm assuming this judges in Augusta National member because all powerful country are is he's going to help decide but no, I honestly think like it's yet to be decided whether or not these guys will be invited to the Masters I think we've got months and months and they're going to probably take it close to the end I mean, I think they really there's just going to be a strong contingent of membership that wants to have their previous champions there. They love their champions in the past and then there's gonna be a lot of people who say no, no, we have to stand with the tour here and our decision could maybe it could break live because then there's going to be anarchy if the if the master says none of you guys can play and I
think that's when you really look at it and go that is so bad for the game because that's like it's lose lose. Augusta lets the guys in it's gonna be a circus all about the live guys. And oh, wow. You know, Augusta actually let them in. If they don't let the guys in. It's a circus. I can't believe they didn't let them in. So Augusta stands to lose in in both positions here. And I think they have a little more control over their championship and what kind of happens and everything then then the USGA or the PGA Championship. And I just it's no matter what happens is not going to be good. Like, I don't know, we're just in such a tough like, weird, existential breaking point in golf, like Nick. Falco just retired yesterday, and like, I didn't think I'd be as emotional as I was, like, I was like, really sad. Like it was making me choke up, because it was like, it's like the voice of my childhood. And, you know, it's like, you kind of see Nick Fado is gone and the you know, the PGA tour as we know it is kind of you know, leaving so I don't know what this is. It's just
golf is changing. And that is really scary. Change is scary. And I think that's what's so into We're staying within the golf industry right now because the biggest changes in golf before this bombshell hit was laid collars and music on the golf course really hats hoodies, like really stupid things. But now this is bad and you can tell that everyone is panicking. It is bad and then all the golf fans are divided you tweet something and it's all like pro lip pro PGA Tour and it's really not that much fun to be in golf Twitter. It's never really been that much fun. But now, especially right now not that much fun and there are things that are happening a golf which we should definitely move on to but it's all live all the time. You can't not talk about it right every single day. There's another big story another player going over we had you know Ferranti and then all the Charles Barkley stuff and it's like one after another after another and you just can't ignore it. They're doing that on purpose. Yeah, all the cancer stuff it's like what's going to happen after I think shits gonna hit the fan after the FedEx Cup. I think that's when everything is going to change we're gonna see a ton of players probably jumping ship it's gonna be intense. But speaking of Augusta, I mean they never really have that many big controversies, I guess. And if they do they kind of sweep it under the rug. And so the biggest thing is that the 13th tee box is going to be moved back and are they doing that just to be like let's let's not talk about let's talk about something new. I think they do have to make some changes but again, like what Amanda was saying, it's it's sad that everything in golf is changing and the masters and Augusta is the one thing it's the one constant in our life that always stays the same and now that's even changing and I don't know if I like it. I mean, the guys are overpowering the golf course down but I don't even care I don't care if they shoot 50 under I want Augusta National to be exactly the same with no changes for the rest of time. And that's how it should be how do you guys feel about it? I
agree. And that includes the par three course in my opinion like I love the par three contests it's like probably one of my favorite golf events of the year to watch cuz you see him out there with the families and the I mean, when was the last time any of you guys went to like a par three course or an executive course that was immaculate never because it doesn't happen it's not a thing like that. I just think that the par three course at Augusta might be like their most to me. It's just so special because it's so unique, right? Like there are other golf courses that exist that are also beautiful and perfect. And Augusta is obviously the best but like the par three, I don't know I just did all the changes of the par three courses. Like I can't put the aerial photos. I'm like, I'm gonna throw up. I can't This is so upsetting. Yeah,
they made 15 So much longer. And I believe there were no Eagles at number 15 at the 2022 Masters, which was really annoying. Yeah, I
mean, if you want to see the Eagles Yeah,
you want to hear the cheer. Yes. Like it's part of it, like getting it to the right part of the green letting the ball funneled? Like, that's all part of it. Yeah,
I just, it's sad because to me, like, you know, when I was growing up, you had like the USGA, which was obsessed with scoring, and oh, my God, if somebody finished it, like, nine under it was a failure. And then you had this contrast to the Open Championship, the British Open the RNA, which said, like, if the weather's easy, they're going to score well. And if the weather is tough, they're not going to score well. And like, they had a much more realistic view of it. And it seems like the Masters now is so score conscious, like, I think, if somebody finishes like 17, under if the conditions are such and a guy's playing brilliantly, like it's okay if somebody's hitting a seven iron into a par five a number 13. And so I see no need to lengthen the hole and they suck some of the fun out of 15. That's your
that's a good point. And I have a question for you guys. Now, if you're seeing and this is just for just this a question of golf in general, if you're seeing that players are overpowering golf courses, maybe don't change the land, like maybe don't change the course, and work on ways to like pull back the distance on the golf ball or change some of the technology like if you look at the last 10 years, like Stewart thinks driving average has gone up like 20 yards and last 10 years. It ain't because homeboys hitting the gym. It's because of golf technology. Like people ask me like, do I need new clubs? I've had these irons for 15 years. I'm like, Yeah, first of all, you're probably playing square groups. So yeah, you need to get to the B groups. Second of all, golf technology, I think is overpowered the game because you look at basketball. Are they making the basketball courts any bigger? Are they making the three point line any farther away from the basket just because these guys are getting bigger and stronger and technology helps people you know with with performance now, but we shouldn't be changing the course as we should change the technology that's just gotten a bit out of hand. It's like, I don't know spring break just went way too wild on the golf technology.
Yeah, if Jack Nicklaus had been doing a podcast in 1984, he would have been saying the exact same thing a man that's been talked about forever and they just never fit You're not a way to do it like, Do you have a special masters ball yet? Like, apparently, you know, there'd be lawsuits and the equipment companies would like it. So I think that fight is, is been long lost.
But who cares? Like I think that people outside of golf again who are not in industry, we have to think about them because we never do. We're just so tied into what we're thinking about all the time. We want to preserve golf how it is. And I want to see guys hit it 350. If I'm going out there, I want to see these guys do superhuman things. I don't want them to make the equipment that makes it hit as far as I do. I don't want to see that. Yeah, that's to see them do things that I can't do. And I think that's what's so impressive. It's like the steroid era in baseball, and when they were hitting all these homeruns, like, how exciting is that, and they can make horses really difficult. And we have seen that. I mean, they're still struggling, good golf courses are always going to challenge these players. And we have seen that doesn't matter how far the golf ball goes, how good the equipment is, if it's a really good golf course, and it's set up well, it will challenge these guys. And I want to get I want to see them hit it far. I think other people want to see them hit it far. And at some point, yeah, you can probably make a certain type of golf ball that is only for Tour players, which I think would actually help the equipment industry because they're going to be producing more and I'm sure people are going to be like, oh, I want to try the golf balls at the top players are playing they're going to be buying double of what they actually need. So I don't think it would actually hurt the golf industry at all, but I wouldn't say made it far.
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Nick Faldo made you cry with retiring I thought we were all so excited that Nick fall was finally retiring.
I thought I was too they started like showing clips of him from like the when he threw the cupcake over his shoulder like I remember watching that like there are things from when I was like like a teenager very young teenager that it just those memories were coming back to me I'd like Nick Falco in the booth and like like I thought he was great with Kelly Tillman back in the day like I thought they were such a good duo like I thought I was excited to see him go but I am sad now fairly I don't mind seeing him on live i That's fine. I don't I don't need to hear him.
I like Ferranti. I was always a big fan of him. And even with Faldo I was a big photo fan but I feel like he should have retired about five years ago because he just I don't know if he just lost interest in it, but maybe just getting a bit senile. He just started making these really weird comments did weird things and I don't know what he was trying to do. He was trying to appeal to the millennials or like Gen Z but it just like was not hitting right and when I think about people I miss I miss Johnny Miller you know, I do I think he was great but let's think about it that often when I'm watching golf I'm not like man I really miss Johnny Miller right now and sitting next is going to be Nick Faldo. I feel like when you look at other sports, they have found that perfect combination you know like Tony Romo kills anyway, I think we're really great on course reporters, I don't know Teddy agrees with that one. But other sports have kind of found that sweet spot. You know, in basketball, you have Shaq and Charles Barkley and really good combination, but then when you think of golf, I think Trevor Edelman is going to be good, but I wish it was something a little bit more unpredictable. That was predicted.
I was surprised by that. Were you surprised by that? Because I was like no,
because they were grooming him to be the next Nick Faldo and I was like, let's bring someone else and let's bring another person anything just anything to spice golf up and it's been just flat, boring, predictable, like do something different. How do you feel about today?
Yeah, I mean, Trevor's got the accent. I mean, you know, is gonna be an Aussie or Brit or somebody with who speaks differently than we do. Because all those guys sound a lot better on the booth. Yeah, Jim dances tribute was like the classically cheesy. Next show and humor, humility and humanity. I thought that was, that was the classic combo. And Nick,
you're gonna Nance now? What's that? You're back? Can we get rid of Nance like that? That's a fireable offense saying that
up I think Jim Nance is awesome. But the follow thing, it was refreshing to see him so emotional, because obviously, as a player, he was a robot. I mean, he was able to basically have zero emotion on the golf course or the interview. He didn't say anything memorable, basically, for 30 years when he was competing. And then he stepped into the booth and showed, you know, an interesting side of him. And I thought he was great. But I also respect the fact that he's 65. And I don't know, unlike a lot of us, like Supreme Court justices who want to work until they're like 106 years old, like, move on and do something else. So I respect the fact that he's saying like, my entire life is not wrapped around. You know, being at the Wyndham championship, I'm gonna go to Montana now and do something new. No, who would you
like to see in the booth,
ah, ah, Brennecke page, let's go.
That's whatever was telling me everyone's like, we need page in booth. I'm like, That would be fun actually, like that would be fun to do, like, the split screen thing, whatever, like they were doing on ESPN member for the vus open, and it was like Joe Buck. And what's in Michael Collins, like, that would be like a perfect thing per page,
I think I would get in trouble a lot. And this is where I feel for the people who are actually doing it on big networks is that you don't have the freedom to be able to show your personality. And I think there are a lot of great players who could kill it as a commentator, but they tend to lean towards something that is more vanilla, and that they can't show their personality. And then it's not exciting anymore. So I wish that these networks would let these guys show their personality and say things that are off the wall like TNT does with Shaq and Charles Barkley that would never fly in the golf booth. We just know that and it's not what we're missing. I think that we need that flavor like that fondness like something to like, just get the people excited. And like you said, you have coltness and Dottie pepper and like they add here and there. But Cole is hilarious. And he's so big. And he's so vanilla on air. And that's not his fault. Like he's doing exactly what they're telling him to do. So I think was like how entertainment is progressing, you can show a little bit more personality and there are so many players, that would be amazing in the booth. But I think networks don't want to take that chance on them because they're scared of something that they will say and they want someone that they can easily kind of mold and control and you know, have that confidence that they're not going to say anything that's too wacky or off the wall or going to get someone in trouble if
we can't get page on the air. I think Frank Navajo is really really good. Yeah, comfortable. He's honest. He's knowledgeable, without like, hitting you over the head with it. He's confident in himself. So I'm a little surprised that Frank didn't get the call over Immelmann but to me like when David Ferranti was in his comfort zone at CBS, and they were giving him some rope and you know, when he kind of had like a clear head and he didn't have other stuff going on in his life that I think was making a tougher with him. I think he was amazing. I mean, he had the ability to just say something completely different non cliched super funny, knows the guys but not a suck up. So I think David 30 is prime was spectacular.
Gary McCord was great. Yeah, Jake. I really enjoy Pierre Jacobs like, Oh, Jake. Yeah, yeah, they're just certain guys that just have it. And I feel like right now they're not just letting these guys like natural ability come through. And so they're picking someone like Trevor immelman, who again I have nothing against I think is actually do a really good job but it's not going to be as entertaining as you know, adding in I'm not saying that he shouldn't get the job. Right someone else in there that is a little bit more of a wildcard and then I think that's like the perfect combination. Do three instead of two.
it real quick I also happen I think Brandel Chamblee is great. I mean, it'd be interesting to hear him during a broadcast during you know, when he would have to speak, I guess in shorter bursts than He is in studio maybe he's like, perfectly fitted for studio now. And they shouldn't mess with it. But it'd be interesting to hear him on a telecast.
He was more he's one of the ones I'm kind of more surprised and try to groom him more for like broadcast because I guess that's why they brought in date or David. Yeah. David Duvall, they kind of brought him in hoping he would maybe be like the next Johnny Miller kind of thing 578 years ago and didn't really say much do we see him anymore? Like I agree like Brando was interesting. Brandl has come controversial takes and he makes people he has high engagement on Twitter because people are like, Oh my God, I don't like what he's saying or oh my gosh, I'm What are you saying? So it makes that right there as well.
He didn't get the opportunity. I think that when I've worked with certain companies, they think that negativity on social media is a bad thing. But it's actually a really, really good thing. If you want to hire someone who isn't necessarily beloved by everyone. And the fact that people are talking about Brandl. Constantly, those people are going to tune in and hate watch Brandel. And guess what, those are more people tuning in to watch it. So they see some pain. They're like, Oh, no, we can't work with that, you know, we can't work with him. You see you people hate him. It's like, no, that's actually what you want. And they're just so scared to do something different. And this is where I'm so completely lost when it comes to live and the PGA Tour and this whole thing, because I keep saying I want it to be the same. I want tradition, but then there's things that do need to change. It's like that's where I want them to work together to make the viewing experience so much better. How cool would it be if you had the option to watch the PGA Tour on TV, or you can watch on a separate stream on YouTube? Yeah, that would be cool. So we look at the viewership. The lift to our Bedminster got 74 views on YouTube down from 88,000 on for Portland, and the Rocket Mortgage got 2.5 million. So people aren't tuning in as much. But those are still really great numbers for YouTube streaming. Yeah. And this is where I get really frustrated because companies will look at those two numbers and be like, well, obviously this product is working so much better because they got 2.5 million. But no, that's actually not how it works. And getting over 70,000 people watching a stream on YouTube is actually really impressive. And more people are highly engaged in that YouTube stream than they are flipping on the TV and not watching a second of it. You have to be actively focused in on watching the stream compared to just turning it on. And that is yes, that's one person added to the numbers, but they're not even watching. Did you guys watch the Wyndham championship this week? Yes. Well, yeah, I don't know man. I could have said yes for that.
I watched 25 minutes yesterday, I watched more the boring Women's Open because I had some money on it. Not much of the Windham. I had Russell handily. And once he started, you know, sending it was like See you later and love you Tom Kim, but but not enough to watch it on. Well, you
know, it was getting fucked with all of this are the women because every single huge story seems to be dropping right when they have a big peak. And it was like, Okay, so the open is going on. This is the biggest purchase that they're having, Oh, guess what live assuming the PGA Tour and then everyone's talking about that. And no one was talking about the Women's Open, which is really sad.
And it was such a good event like I was I was out yesterday, so I missed most of it on NBC. Like I was on USA all day. So I panicked when I got home and I saw the play off and I'm like where is it? I can't see it. I was like you were fucking idiots on NBC right now. And I was like, oh, so I go over and I watch it and it was like a four hole playoff it was it was crazy. There were some amazing shots like the on the first hole ng Chun hit a great bunker shot on the fourth hole actually do high hitting incredible bunker shot to like a foot and a half to win to say part a win. Like it was a great tournament. They were at Muirfield it was a really cool week and yeah you're right they did they kind of got screwed by that because this big news comes up but they also got screwed by their schedule and the fact that the evianne the major because they had a major one week Scotland the next and then the open the next so they have like no breathing room, their schedule kind of sucks. So it's like I kind of feel bad for them in that sense. Like everyone was like oh, we have the TV on and then you're like oh wait, you have another major coming up. So it's kind of hard to get really excited when you have one major after another I feel like with their schedule. I don't know.
It was an interesting playoff because it just kept getting darker and colder so like they had to hit like a club longer in every time they played the hole so by the end of it like they're hitting three minutes into a park for it made for interesting Golf I mean people do say it's like it's more with guys like me can relate to like a 12 index you know, occasionally hitting a shitty drive and actually having to hit like a three with into a into a beefy par four and seeing the nerves and then they had some great short game shots. So it's actually pretty entertaining that playoff.
Well yeah, and I think like you said a lot of amateur male golfers should watch the women play because they hit more woods and if you guys want to get fit for your new woods, head over to club champion. Seriously try anything out that you might think that you're not used to. I know a lot of guys are playing two or three irons, but everyone is now switching over to woods and so you can go to club champion and try out all the brands maybe try seven would try a five one and I know it's really going to change your game they have okay shitting all around, and you can use my code at checkout. So make sure you go head over and do that. But Teddy, you sit over this really interesting tweet. And it said, in my opinion, the boyfriend slash husband was out way too fast after that winning, gotta get behind her moments. And this was really fascinating to me, because I feel like when it comes to male professional events, they are dying to see Paulina run out and kiss the guy Genesis like our genic kappa Sims cat, I don't know if she decided to go with it. But they won't see the wives and girlfriends, you know, parade on out, give the kids to, you know, their husband, boyfriend, and then that's like, that's a shareable viral moment on social media. But when it comes to a female, they don't want to see the guy involved at all, which I really thought was interesting. I've never heard that before.
I don't like that take.
That was a tweet by Shane Ryan, who I'm pretty good friends with. And I actually totally disagreed with it. I mean, the amazing thing to me was, I don't know if you guys saw their responses, but like everybody agreed with him. They said, like this husband was, you gotta wait. Gotta give her her moment. It's kind of like, I think the husband knows more about Ashley than you guys. Do. You know that she'd been grinding probably out there for almost six hours for the rookies, playoff holes, and these like stressful pots, and he's just running out there to support her. Also, people are like, Oh, they were showing them too much on the broadcast. It's like, they kept playing the same hole and you know how much time you have to go.
Was it was it Corey Connors when they were showing his wife for the first time that she won and it was like every single I can't prove was that she was like, freaking out everyone
is when he wants to the lair of Putin. And they showed her freaking out every three months. I liked every hole. Yeah, like you want
to see the behind the scenes but that's I agree with them. And that's just a bad that's a bad take. And it's
not just a bad take because it almost feels like reverse sexism in a way or some kind of weird sex and then but like, I think it's really nice because you watch a lot of these girls or a lot of the women they'll finish you know the round and it's their friends from the tour come out and spray him with whatever how we don't often see significant others out there with them. And it's so I thought it was really nice that it's like a Husband Husband wife to like I thought he used to caddy for her I might be like just making that looks
like a caddy. He looks like a guy who looks like on bag for 36 holes. Yeah, I mean, I know I thought it was a beautiful moment picks her up, she seemed to have no was oscillate with it. I think that was just a classic like Twitter, being pissed just for the sake of being pissed moment.
It is interesting though, because I see that a lot in my career where anytime that I do any type of content with another male, the male is not well received. And whenever you know, past relationships or anything, it was always like, keep it out. You don't want to see that. And so it's just really interesting when it comes to women how like, out of sight out of mind, like they don't want to see the significant other they don't want to be involved. It is it's like a form of sexism in a way where they don't want to but when it comes to men, having a hot wife or girlfriend is the greatest accessory that anyone could ever have. And even when it comes to talking about if there is a successful counterpart, it's always so and so's boyfriend or that's like Camille caustic, like she has her own career. She's very famous, and people refer to her as wrong girlfriend, or even while I was gonna say Giselle, but that's not even that because we're take that one out. But it's always like a good thing when a guy has like a really hot girlfriend or wife but that doesn't apply to a woman and it's just really weird how they were so turned off by seeing that but they love it when they get to see Paulina
Yeah, I think it helps when men remember the dress that the US Open she kept having to pull down because like, underwear on and that dress was really short. I think everyone was excited to see that because I thought they were gonna get like a little extra view and launch or PPV
pass it on this one. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I I like it all. I like the reaction shots. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a broadcast maybe like a baseball game. And it's like to actually I know where it visits me off when there is an NBA game that ends and they don't show like the players laughing high fives and instead they're showing something in the crowd or during Wimbledon when they were showing the crowd instead of the players shaking hands with each other so like I like some crowd shots but like don't go to mental with it with other sports.
Or if they'll just like pan over to like a random hot girl for like a second here. Like what are you doing? It makes no sense. Like go back to the action like no one wants to see this girl just like sitting there. Like come on. Like let's go. Okay, so moving on quickly. Let's just talk about the playoffs which are coming up Rickie Fowler just barely snuck in, which was a very interesting situation, because if he didn't make the playoffs, do you guys think that he would have gone to live?
Yeah, that was my big worry. I'm like, I'm like holding on for dear life. Like, come on Ricky, make the cut. Like, let's go, let's go. But the thing is, like, I feel like he's probably if he is going to live, he's probably already signed his contract. So regardless of making the FedEx Cup playoffs, I was like, I guess it probably didn't matter. But I just thought it was crazy. Because I believe he started the week at like, 123 124. He was around 126 127. Like, right after he missed the cut. And then next thing I know, I looked yesterday, and he's right, right on the bubble. So I was like, that's exciting.
Sorry, Justin, lower. I don't know if you saw him three. But there, you missed eight footer. And I almost thought like, there was something wrong with my TV screen like it was frozen because he was just like, over and not moving for the longest time totally fell for. It's funny, Fowler makes so much sense for live. But my live guy has never mentioned him as a pawn. No one's
mentioned him to me either. Yeah.
That's it. That's it. You have a live guy.
Well, keep in mind, I mean, there's gonna be a live event outside Chicago in September. And that's a course that I know. And I know the people there. So I've been hearing about the Live Tour since like, February. And that's part of why when I came on this podcast whenever it was in the spring, and everybody you know, and the sense of everyone was, it's not going to work. And I said, Don't be so sure this guy, he's pretty confident that he's going to get a good feel for his event. And they are that's the one that's the week after the Tour Championship, and they're probably going to get Camp Smith. So I've been hearing about Camp Smith and the possibilities of Hovland. Collin Morikawa, like all these guys, but I've never heard Ricky's name brought up maybe because he's not good enough. I mean, I think he'd still be a great draw on that tour, though.
I feel like Ricky would be hurt the most out of all the guys when it comes to sponsors, right? Because you can't turn on Golf Channel or really any channel and not see at least one rookie commercial, every commercial break, like, you know, because so when these guys aren't getting rolled ranking points, that hurts their sponsors, I think more than anything, right? So we've Ricky, he's already in kind of a bad spot. We're ranking wise so he goes live he drops real quick and you got to think that farmers and Mercedes and some of the other ones are gonna be like, I don't know, man, you're not you're not you know, like quite the appeal we need right now. But I also I don't know I feel like Ricky's kind of one of those guys that plays it plays the game because he loves the game. I think he's, you know, just being so close with with JT I think that also probably influenced him a little bit because you kind of see that little like Tiger Rory J T, click down in in Jupiter that are all very like anti lib. So I don't know, I wonder if the outside influences of being inside live affected it? So I don't know.
If he gets invited, he has to go. I mean, how much more money is he going to make on the PGA Tour versus how much he could theoretically make with live like, for some guys, it's still like doesn't make tons of sense to me like the Bryson thing doesn't make sense to me because he could still make a jillion dollars playing the PGA Tour. Brooks makes some sense because he wants to play less. But for a guy like Fowler, I mean, if you can make 100 times more playing on the other tour, I would think you have to grab it
honestly, from an outsider looking in, that's gonna be a massive, massive get for live because when you think of the face of golf, I would gather that most people besides Tiger Woods and worry, people would say Rickie Fowler, and you still see little kids dressed up as Ricky, you see grown ass men dressed up as Rickie Fowler. And when you think of the face of the PGA Tour, a lot of people are gonna go to Rickie Fowler. And so with him moving over to live, that's gonna be a huge loss for the PGA Tour. And it makes me really sad that like Ken Smith, and more Calla, and Havlin, because those are three players that I really, really do love. And again, it's moving closer to that, gotta gotta make it work together. Because clearly, players are unhappy. They want to make more money they want whatever they want, I don't know at this point, but they want to play a different tours. And at this point, let's just make it work. Let's make it work. But I'm excited for the playoffs. I think it's going to be interesting. We're gonna get some big names back because last couple of weeks, were not that boring. They weren't that exciting, and weren't that exciting, and it would be cool. Let's eliminate those and let's put in like two live events or one live event or something. And I think this is this is let's get rid of the President's cup. Right. Okay. I don't care about the President's cup. Let's make a live versus the PGA Tour, like Ryder Cup style event. I think that would be pretty cool. Incredible. I think that'd be awesome. Because you have a job. Let's
go.
Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna fund it. I'm gonna figure this out. But how would that be because you got the animosity, you get really great players. And I think we'll give the guys opportunity who don't get to play on the Ryder Cup anymore. to still get in that environment, Taylor Gooch will fairly experienced what it feels like.
There's only chance, I think, real quick before we end, the biggest loss for the PGA Tour from what I'm hearing would be her Deki. Like, I think a Deki is pretty much set to go to live. And it's because of the Asian TV deal. Like if a decade goes to live, live gets an Asian TV deal immediately that helps with all ranking points that gives them more money that legitimizes them even more. So. I think that like Hideki watch might be the most important watch right now. Like I just it's hard to believe like, you know, for for us in America, because you know, a decade is not our biggest player. But for you know, over in Japan over in Asia. He's their biggest player. So I think that that was part of why the PGA Tour wanted Tom Kim to come over from the Asian tour and play on the PGA Tour rather than giving them to live and I think that maybe helps a little bit but it'll be interesting.
Well, that was a fantastic episode. Thank you, Amanda and Teddy for all of your insight. You know, everyone always enjoys it. And if you guys want to email us or send us any questions for future TNA, you guys know where to go? Go to the playground Instagram account, send us a message and we will respond. And as always, give us some five stars. Leave us a nice review, share the podcast and you can catch us here next time. Thank you so much for listening.
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