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Hey, I'm Jon.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Becky, oh my gosh, is there a unicorn back on the podcast?
There's two unicorns in we have our unicorn Julie. And then we have our adopted unicorn, Matthew Helmer, who is the first in the We Are For Good podcast history to be a 2-Pete on the same season. So if you are new to knowing who the Matthew Helmer is, let me give you just a little bit of background even though you should go back and listen to his original episode, which is fire. But Matthew is just an incredible human being. He's known as the unicorn and he joined the DRG group. And he's got decades of experience as a donor relations practitioner and organizational leader. Matthew was formerly with Colorado State University, where he served for 22 years as the assistant VP and Chief Communications Officer for all of university and advancement we learned so much from him. And today, we're diving in to the habits of an impactful nonprofit event and experience and where he's going to give you the 411 on everything you need to know so Matthew, welcome back to our house. We're so excited you're here.
Yay. I'm so excited to be here too. And to be back with you all and and to Pete super exciting to be able to get in like can we just talk for a moment about how amazing your journey has been, even in the span of just a few months. You know, I was listening to the intro and talking about striving to bring a little bit of good y'all are bringing a whole lot of good into this space like and I'm here for it. You're like the Beyonce of nonprofit this is it's huge. It's huge. So just to be in the orbit is filling my heart and soul right now. I'm like, extra unicorn sparkly.
With your literally unicorn. We're recording this on Halloween, and he is dressed as a unicorn and it's giving us life. But thank you, my friend for that it honestly takes a village.
Seriously. I mean, we're hiding under our chairs. But I mean, okay, let's tone set here, we wanted to have you back as a to Pete, because we're leaning into this habits of an impactful fundraiser series. And this particular week, we wanted to talk about events and experience. And it's not because we want you to think siloed we really want this whole conversation to be like how do you build a dynamic team where everybody feels really core to the work that's happening. So we get really clear on the habits that matter and kind of the right questions to be asking if you're leaning into that role if you're leading that role. And so that's where I want to start the conversation today, Matthew, like, give us some tone setting like as you think about events and experience. What's the bigger right question to ask it? What are you really trying to accomplish with this before we get into all the tactical type stuff?
Yeah, thank you for that because it is so much about the big picture, John and Becky, you know this, right? But events are all of these little components, sometimes big butt butt like checklists and things that are coming together to make the experience happen. But you know, y'all know, I'm all about purpose, driving our events and experiences and to me, that really should lead the conversation every time we set out to do something. So when I think about, you know, what are the what are the questions to ask and how do we figure out what are we trying to accomplish? I have I have so many questions. I love to ask questions and dive in and but some of my favorite really focus on the outcomes of the event experience they don't focus on necessarily the choices that we have to make, to make that experience come together the things that we're going to check off a list. It's it's where we start is what is that end result? What do we want our learned our donors to Learn, what do we want them to feel? What do we want them to experience? Ultimately, I think about what do we want them to care about? Because that's the point of bringing an experience to life, whether that's in person or that's online. And we want them to care about something. And then what do we want them to do once they care about that, because when it comes to fundraising, that's our role in this in this picture is getting them to experience something that that deepens their connection, that helps them understand where we're going, that helps them understand the difference that they're making, and to care about that, and then to take action. So the event itself is not the end goal, it's it's a critical touch point on the journey. It's this opportunity to create this immersive environment, this experiential learning, that we hope, you know, sort of takes them to the place that we want them to be after the experience so they can learn about the impact that they're making already, and what they can do going forward. So that's the question that we have to ask is not you know, just what this experience will be. But where is it? What role is it playing in their journey? Where are they now? Where are we going to transport them to through an effective experience that, ultimately is going to help us tie an event directly to an organization's overall strategy and goals. And if we have events that we're doing that don't tie directly to overall strategy and goals, stop doing that event immediately? Stop? Because it's serving no purpose, we have to ask that about every single event we're doing. How does it support the overall goals?
I want to thank everybody for coming to the We Are For Good podcast, that's all you needed today on impactful. I mean, that was so good, what you just described, right? There is 2.0 events, or maybe that's 3.0. You know, in the past in the days of your, I just think about events as being this very transactional tactical thing that we all sort of participated in, and it was a check the box event, but the way you just frame that was so smart, ushering in the 2.0 way to look at an event which is how do we make them care? Then how do we make them activate them coming to the event, then giving to the event? Is not the action that is not at all, we it's absolutely essential? It's an essential part of the experience. But how does the event lead to something else? I think that was so brilliant. And I will just say Matthew did this at Colorado State University. If you want to go back and listen to that episode, it's episode 315. But I remember you did a value engineer and you worked backwards from the event like what do we want to happen? How do we want to activate and you built the event backwards, which I thought was so smart, and you ended up cutting? How many events like hundreds
100? More than 100? Yeah, we get so in, like, engrossed in this activity, we need an event for this, we need an event for that. And, and we we don't stop long enough to really assess its place in the overall fundraising and donor experience journey. And that's, you know, that's ultimately what we're doing them for. I do think another big question that we have to ask in this space is what is the follow up plan? It has to be built in collaboration with your frontline fundraisers with the development team, everybody's got to know their role and responsibility that has to be outlined up front. Right. So how is what happens after the event? What are the touch points that are going to happen? How is that going to it's not enough just to have the event, I guess, is what I'm saying. Right? We have to do the work after it in order to keep them moving on that journey.
I agree with you. And I think that just transitions so well into like, how do we get into those habits? How do we really hone in on those actions for success in this role? So we would love for you to lift? Maybe three daily habits or something someone could do. And thank you for talking about the inclusive nature of events because events don't fall on the events team. You know, this is for everybody. This is a all hands on deck approach. Talk to us about some of these daily habits that someone could employ to find true success and impact in this role.
I think the first one is in this is probably going to be counterintuitive for a lot of event managers also known as event planners. It's reflection. We're always looking forward. We're staying And on top of things, we're like looking through checklists and registration numbers and all this information that's coming in about an experience that's going to happen. We also have to stop and spend time looking back and reflecting what do the evaluation results tell us that are going to help inform what we do next? Or help inform our upcoming events? What does post event giving look like from attendees from non attendees? What are the trends that we're seeing in our own events? In other events? Like what what should we be adjusting as a result, and all too often, we're like, I've been in it, I've been in it myself, right? We are checking this off, it took a lot of work to get here. We're so relieved that it happened. And now we're moving on to the next one. Without that purposeful, stop, reflect, pull together the information, this is where the data really comes into play to tell us, was it successful? Was it not successful? What do we need to do differently going forward, I will say, the reflection and the debrief is just as important as any other step we are going to take in planning. And that reframe can really help those of us who are driven by what comes next this this deadline that we need to meet the experiences that are coming our way. So it may not be daily, I get it. But set time and make it a focus. If that's weekly, if that's monthly. We have to set time aside for that reflection in the learning that comes from the reflection. I mentioned trends. And I think that's another habit that that really should be daily. Because especially in the world that we live in now events have changed so much they continue to evolve and morph. And so really looking at I, you know, I like to look at bizbash I look like to look at event MB. You know, we in the DRG group are talking about events a lot. There's lots of people sort of shining a spotlight on different trends that are happening. And that's true about the event experiences themselves. But the other trends that we have to look at are what's happening with the audience's we serve, right, what's changing about their preferences and needs? How do we incorporate that into what we do? How do we have that conversation as a team, our donor base is shifting? How do we look at reports that are talking about how donors are giving and how they want to be engaged? And how can that inform the work we're doing in event experiences. I also think it's it's not just about our industry, but looking outside our industry for inspiration. None of us in nonprofits are really ever going to have the budget for like corporate event planners, for example, right? But there's so much inspiration that we can take, and then we can we can just glean that inspiration and adapt it to our own world, because that's the thing to remember about donors who are audiences, they're people living in the world having these experiences. So how do we apply some of that to what we do?
I'm so glad you went there, Matthew, because it is so critical that we look outside of our silos, you know, and I think this is a great point that you bring up because especially those in a smaller community and Oklahoma cities, I mean, what a million people but it's still like the same event venue, the same salads, the same program flow, and it's like, if we don't start looking outside of the walls, like people are fatigued, like how can you create something remarkable is you have to do something that they would remark upon, which is just different than the status quo, you know. And so thank you for calling that out. I think that applies to everything, by the way.
I so agree when I think specifically to about leaders in this space. But this is true for for anybody because you can lead from any position that you're in, right? That third habit for me is people it's about checking in with the team. That's a daily action for success. Just understanding how are the humans right that are behind this production machine that are the the magic makers pulling all of this together, driving these experiences? Are we attending to their growth, understanding what's challenging them, what's inspiring them, helping them to not get stuck in the rut going back to the same venue or serving the same menu we're, you know, because it If people are driving those choices, and how do we connect with them and help ensure that they are staying inspired and looking outside of their own sort of tunnel vision and world, so many, I think of our conversations become task oriented, because it can be such a task driven part of the of the industry, but ultimately, it's a relationship and people base industry, and events themselves are about connecting people. So it's important that we remember to prioritize that connection and kind of just get out of the, the non stop to do lists.
The grind is so exhausting and events. And I think that what that's what takes the joy out of it for us. And I thank you for bringing that back. Because this, this concept of having an engaging activation engagement strategy before you ever start selecting themes, and chivari, chairs, and the napkin colors, and all the things is the is the reason that we're putting on these events, and I think you've centered it so well. So talk to us a little bit about the relationships that you prioritize in this role, what would you say?
Well, I think Picking up from where we were just talking team members, and this can be the it can be the immediate team, it needs to be the immediate team, it also does need to be all of those that we're collaborating with, right? So communications and leadership and your frontline fundraisers and your data and systems administrators, all of the people because it it, events don't happen in a silo. So every one is a part of the team, whether they have the shared reporting line or not. It's the work of an events team is so interconnected to the very fabric of a nonprofit. So how are we intentional about fostering those connections? I think, to me, that's the bedrock, you mentioned, the the tasks, Becky can just suck the joy out of doing the work. And you can tell, right, you can tell when you're when you're an attendee, experiencing an event, where the joy has been sucked out of the person and people driving that event, you can tell it will reflect in the work. So how do we make sure that those relationships are strong, and that they are feeding that joy in that purpose, because ultimately, this is the group of people that are going to engage our donors on behalf of the organization. So they, they really need to reflect the joy that comes from the the life changing, world changing work, that's happening. And that means we have to make sure that our that our teams feel a sense of belonging, that they feel that they matter that their contributions matter, and that we trust them. And this is where you know, there's that that old business adage, I'm sure someone great in history said it but taking care of your people and they'll take care of your customers like, this is so important. We are talking about people who are on the front lines of engaging with our donors are the people behind event experiences. So how do we make sure that they are just deeply rooted in the mission of our work?
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You bring up just such a powerful, poignant point, because you know, we talked about culture all the time on the podcast, and the importance of an organization that just attracts the type of people that align with the values that you're living. And I just think like an events, a microcosm of that, you know, I think you're saying if people are burnt out, people are gonna feel that. And if the person greeting you has got the worst attitude in the world, it sets the tone for how you're going to show up, you know, and culture matters, you know, it really does matter. I want to transition because, let's, let's be honest, this is like the world of tactics. And we have talked a little bit about them. But I know, I've seen the binders. You know, I was on a team for a long time running these events, too. It's like, you got the binder. And you've got the playbooks of old and you're like, what are the things and I want to give you the floor to say, what are some of the things that you want to do this and stop doing this, like, throw out a few of maybe your biggest pet peeves that you see happen over and over? What are some do this not that's for event experience?
I think the thing that we have to let go of is the rinse and repeat the just taking the binder from last year and updating it with new dates and applying it and thinking we're going to come out with this fabulous life changing experience at the end. And we're not right, because we're are going to end up with a lot of stale. I think it's more important than ever. And when I was thinking about, you know, what should we do? What should we not do? It all comes down to storytelling. It's more important than ever, that we in event planning experience, designing roles, see ourselves as storytellers and that there is a narrative that threads the entire event experience together. So it's, it's a theme, and it's beyond a theme. It really is a story that's coming to life, through all of the different choices that we're going to make about an event. You know, this stories are how humans make sense of the world around them. So when we frame our events as stories, we can then get to that part where we are moving people through an experience. And we're taking them from this one state of being to another in a positive way. I think the most important aspect of that is deepening their understanding of the impact they've made. So I think the other thing we need to stop doing is too often we make the story about us, it's about the organization, especially at events. This is where, you know, we talk about it in written communications and digital communications as well. But it's so present in events because it's this parade of insider people, your your you've when you're an academic institution, it's your Dean's and your president, and it's your CEO at the nonprofit like it's, it's non stop talking about us and where we want to go. I believe donors give through us, not to us, they want to make a difference. They want to make a change in the world. And our organization represents a way to do that, that they can believe and that they can partner with. So our job as storytellers is to really connect them to that impact that they're making every chance we get. And events are a way to do that. Like live like jumping off the page. Just you know, impact surrounding you. Newsflash, leaders do not have to be on stage period.
They don't lose through it.
Say it again. Say it again.
Say it again. Do it again. For everybody in the back. leaders do not have to be on stage. Period. Go ahead and eat. And then I'm going to talk about this long list of people, right? That's not a story. Right? We're telling we're not showing. So tell the story of the change. The beneficiaries tell the story of the donors themselves. This is the powerful stuff that really moves people because giving is what it's 90% emotional, where you're going to get a motion where you're going to experience it events are going to be the most powerful medium, every single time. It's about. It's about what happens on stage. You don't even have to have stage really, right. It's about what happens on video. It's about the environmental messaging that's in the room. That story starts the moment you invite them and it does not end until well after the event. All of that threads together.
As the storyteller, Chief storyteller, over here, we're for good feels like I'm just dropping my title, which makes me want to vomit. However, you just unpacked what John and I in this company calls the impact arc. Because story is all about the impact arc. And I think events have this very unique opportunity where you start to tell that story, you're right, the second you invite them in every eight weeks between that moment of the Save the date, or whatever it is 12 weeks, four months, however you do it, that is prolonging and adding layers and chapters to the story that is building up to this high emotional apex of where we're going to ask them to do something at the emotional apex. But we're not done when we get there, because the rainbows coming down, because you got to syndicate that. I mean, our impact Ark is three quick steps. It's staging, its storytelling, and it's syndicating it. And so think about the story even at the event, it doesn't even have to be somebody talking, it could be a poster, it could be an image, it could be the way somebody feels when they come in and see a beneficiary your storytelling the entire time. And the beauty of events where I'm almost done, John, I'll get off my soapbox is that you can create so much FOMO and continuity beyond the event, if you can syndicate it well, because there's a lot of people who aren't going to be in the room for your physical event, you could be, you know, very evolved. And we're proud of who you are, if you're doing hybrid events, because we think that's a way to bring in global community. But even beyond the event, you take that content that you have gathered at the event, you syndicate it out, you drop that video, you drop parts of your the speeches that are on stage, drop those quotes, get some testimonials from whoever's in the audience, you know, whether it's a donor, whether it's a beneficiary could be a caseworker, a physician, whatever your habit is, there is so much content to be gleaned, that the event just keeps going and going because it was never about the event. It was always about the thing you wanted them to care about. So thank you, Matthew Helmer for bringing that in. And I absolutely am here for that level of thinking on events moving forward,
I think to your point, it's, it is about syndicating the content from the event. And thinking about the non attendee experience, which I do want to talk about. But it's also it doesn't have to be a new story every time just for the event, the event itself could be part of the syndication of a larger story. And I would say should be right, there are stories that we tell in a newsletter, their story that we tell on social media, and they just they go out, and then we're done with them. Right. Think of the powerful stories we want to tell. And then think about all the different places and different ways that we can tell them and an event, a live event, whether that's in person online, a combination of both, is a really powerful sort of three dimensional way to do it. But it's it's the story itself is the strong pillar of what we're trying to do. We do have a saying and DRG about create once repurpose everywhere core. Oh, that that. That just it applies here. It applies to so many things. And videotape everything you're doing. Oh my gosh.
Okay, I want to move into KPIs because I got a feeling this is like an elephant in the room with events. I want to know, Matthew, what are the KPIs that matter? And which are the ones we need to bless and release in the modern era? What would you say on events? What are those KPIs people should be tracking?
Okay, let's start with what we need to bless and release. We missed the mark, big time on this one. And we've done it for years and we still do it measuring success based solely on attendance, the number of people in the room. Just getting people together is not a meaningful purpose at all. And it just isn't right. So we have to dig deeper on the attendance goals like why are we trying to why do we have an attendance goal? Right? In did we attract the people who really needed to be in the room, whether that's a fundraiser or whether it's a recognition event? Having certain people in the room will make a difference in whether or not we accomplish our goals. So segmentation is important. Target messaging and marketing is important. Measuring like, not just the number, but what's behind And the number. That's the KPI that matters. And then this is where I wanted to talk about the non attendee experience, we got to go beyond the people who are in the room or on the screen in our in our online events world. How well did we do with the non attendee experience? That's a measurement we should be looking at every single time and sort of aggregate overall, for our events programs, there always, always will be a large segment of the target audience who doesn't attend, right? What are we doing to extend the experience and the story to them? It's not as though they no longer matter if they have a conflict, or maybe they just don't like events, or, you know, the newest streaming, whatever, I don't know what the latest rage is, right? And we watch mostly kid shows, but apparently something that keeps people from going places, you know, but are we aspiring or non attendees with a call to action? Are they taking action, what like, we send out often we send out an invitation, you know, 20% of the people respond to it, and we spend all the rest of our time focused on them. And like the 80%, just disappeared, and vanished. They were important enough to be included and invited, they are important enough, their relationship with our organization is important enough that we spend an equal amount of time focused on what their experience is going to be like, how are they going to be moved? How are they going to care about something that we want them to care about? So that is that's just a performance indicator that I feel like has been largely ignored, um, throughout the history of time and continues to today? And you know, most importantly, how, what did we accomplish the intended outcome, that's the thing we need to be looking at, we should measure this on an individual basis, but also on an aggregate, like rating for all the events that we produce in one year. In, in my previous role, we set a goal that every event experience should result in donors feeling more connected to the organization. So we just asked that question, you know, how well did this experience strengthen your connection? And then we measure our team's performance on that, and when it was not? When it you know, when it was low score? You don't? That's what that's where the questions begin, like, then you go deeper, then you look at the narrative feedback, you're getting around. Okay, why was this off the mark? Right? Was it was it a parking challenge, that helped them not not experience, what we wanted them to experience was our storytelling off, these things are going to happen? Right. Um, so those are things that we need to look at. And I think ultimately, while it's not causing effect, we also have to look at whether event activity is making a difference in giving. So kind of looking at the trajectory of different types of attendees, you have your like, your diehard folks that are at every single, I mean, Anytime you open the door, they show up. And you've got people who never come to event experiences, you have people who come once in a while to certain types of like, you can start to create almost profiles of different types of attendees and see what their event activity is and what their giving activity is, and see if there's any correlation between those two.
You're just asking such good questions. And I think like, as any manager or leader that's listening to this, these are the kind of like questions you should be having with your events team. Because if you make it all about the money, or the attendance, you missed it actually accomplish what the power of event has, which is to have this experiential change, or this feeling or this thing that happened as a result of being in person. So thank you for that. Like I think the quality of questions is so good.
I think one of the things I love so much about you, Matthew is is this commitment you have in your core to following data informed strategy. And if you are gauging your events success, by attendance, and by how much you've raised, you have fallen so short of what is the underpinning of why people come, why they want to stay, why they want to come back or why they don't. And I think the survey is brilliant. And there's so much you could put in that post event survey. I mean, talk about story, what you could gather if somebody actually wanted to share that with you. And I just I just thank you for pulling it back to the data and giving voice to the people and not making assumptions based on these numbers that have been somewhere lauded as the end all be all of how we measure success. And so I want to go into sustainability because I have to think that taking care of our event teams and our staff, I don't think we've done a good job of this, at least not in my 20 years in the business, have I ever seen people be well taken care of who are executing events? And I want you to talk about how do you prioritize mental health, taking care of yourself, when you have so many details? What would you say to that?
Thank you, you're so right, it is very much churn and burn. And I've watched teams, I've managed teams that have gone through burnout when we weren't taking care of them in the way that we could. I have, I have three things in this area. First is about our own mental framework and our own mental health, ease up, ease up on yourself and on others. Don't take everything personally. Events are naturally flawed. It's a human experience. It's this shared human experience. And there's always something at least one thing, usually many more, that just doesn't go quite as planned. And we you know, we prepare for the unexpected. But when that happens, we in events, roles, we hear about it, sometimes immediately, sometimes often. And a lot of us in these roles tend to be people pleasers, we like making people happy, it's sort of one of the things that draws you to this work. And constructive feedback can just often be internalized more harshly than perhaps it was intended by the person who shared it. So don't expect perfection to begin with. And then allow for those mistakes and the unexpected, be ready to address it. But keep it in perspective, like let it be what it is without having this exaggerated sense of ownership around it. And then I think there are practical things to take care of ourselves. Just taking time away for restorative activity, whatever that looks like for you. That's physical activity, it's sleeping, it's Netflix thing and bridgerton. It's, it's connecting with friends, our schedules can be brutal. And I think that's what leads to that, that burnout and the the events team not being well taken care of. It's it's a constant on a constant churn. So building time to unplug and then protect it set those boundaries, I think is super important. It's important for us as leaders to model this and then encourage it by where you can give time off because there's, there's no way an event person, manager or planner, whatever producer, they're not working 40 hours and stopping. It just doesn't happen in the nonprofit world especially. So I do recommend that it not be like the day after a big event like us that day, to type the loose ends to express gratitude, do the little things that are actually going to contaminate your restorative time. Get them out of the way so that then you can really enjoy and decontaminate your restorative time. The last point I want to say that I also get the rest itself is not always the answer, I think, especially for people in in this area. Early in my career, I was introduced to the fish philosophy. Are you all familiar with a fish philosophy
thinks, Oh, I gotta drop it here. Great. I'm on.
Um, it's based on the team at the world famous Pike Place fish market in Seattle. Oh, and Seattle based market, right? So it's, like a team of consultants went in sort of studying them and their culture and like, how did they get to be who they are with the flying fish and their joy of working in that smelly stinky cold environment, right. So there's a quote in one of the books about the market that has just stuck with me all these years. It resonates with me, and with my life, and it is the antidote to exhaustion is not necessarily rest. The antidote to exhaustion is wholeheartedness. It is those things we do half heartedly that really wear us out.
Oh my God, holy cow. I love that
Some Brene Brown vibes all wrapped up in that. Isn't it
so powerful in to me that comes full circle to what we were talking about at the beginning in terms of purpose, because it's those things Without purpose that we are all doing half heartedly because there's some expectation that we're doing them. But we don't understand why. And without the why. It just breaks us down and wears us down. So find that why.
Matthew Helmer Goodness gracious, I mean, wait a book in this conversation because I was already feeling your book in and just like the reflection and just how good it is to take stock of the moment, you know, and really sit with that. But to seek this wholeheartedness and want that for our donor experience to and our people. Yeah. And our team, like, I mean, what a powerful shift, like you came for the habits and you got the mic drop, like, this is what matters, conversation. Man, I just love where this conversation went today. And so as we start to round out, I mean, how can people connect with you, you gotta point us back to the DRG group, because you guys are spilling this kind of advice everywhere all the time. So share all the ways that y'all show up online and how people can find you, Matthew,
oh, my gosh, well, we're everywhere, donor relations.com. The website is just full of so much in the blog and the resource resource webinars and we're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook, we love hearing from you. And I mean, gosh, these are some some things that I've thought about over my career. But like, everybody's out there, rocking it and figuring these things out. And I'd love to hear habits from people to write.
Matthew Homer, you are the unicorn, thank you for coming into our house and just sprinkling all of your magic and your creativity on us. I just think it's wonderful. I'm here for the 2.0 reimagining of events and fundraising and I think you're helping us get there.
Thank you all so much for having me. I just love hanging out with y'all and talking about this. Anytime.
Such an honor my friend.
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