So he had been a pastor, I think he had just recently transitioned. He had been a pastor of one of the leading churches in this conference of churches, and they had their annual conference that summer in Saskatchewan, and I was there. And I was looking across the workshop list, and his workshop title jumped out at me. Why are People Poor? That's not it verbatim. The Causes of Poverty, I think that's what it was. Poverty was not a really big value of mine. I would have said spiritual poverty is more important, and I still would say that. I was curious about what he had to say about this. And for the first time, I heard things like people are not poor because of a lack of money. People are poor because of the way they think. I was floored. I had never heard this before. And I had a little bit of a relationship with Dwayne, I think I had been in his church, I think I'd spoken at his church. And I asked him after the session, I said, Dwayne, I need to hear more about this. Because here's the thing: From my perspective, a person's theological underpinnings were really important, and I still would say that, and so I had started reading about relief and development. But I couldn't find anybody whose theology I could trust. But Dwayne Holsapple was a graduate of Dallas Bible Seminary. So I knew Dallas Theological Seminary. So I knew I could trust his theology. And I said, Can you put me on anything I can read? And he said, Yes, I'll send you something. So we parted ways. I came home a few days later, this book arrived in the mail "Discipling Nations, the power of truth to transform cultures" by Darrow Miller. I had never heard of Darrow Miller. But this was the book he gave me. And I sat down and I had a job that at that point, I was free to sit and just read. I'm actually a pretty restless person, it's hard for me to read for very long because I think I need to get up and do something. But for a day and a half I didn't do anything but read this book. And it just blew me away. One moment was chapter 8. I remember clearly reading this, it's the original, I've marked it up here, I still have the old edition, of course, I've got the new edition too. But it says "cultural relativism poses one of the greatest challenges to human development in our generation, as taught in the soft sciences of psychology, sociology, and anthropology. It holds that the values in one culture are no better or worse than those in another." I read that and I was struck. I couldn't believe I was reading this in print, because it was articulating what I had not been able to articulate. But somehow I had faintly begun to recognize that we were missing a central piece of truth that needed to come to bear. And here's an example, here's a perfect example. When I was in Edmonton, we were in the native church in Edmonton, a guy came down from way up on the Arctic coast. And he called himself Eskimo Fred. And that was his name for himself. And he was he was an Eskimo, we would say now Inupiat and he found our church somehow, a little native Christian Fellowship Church. And as so many people, they came in, they found our church and said, Wow, I didn't know there was a church like this, because we sang country music, we played guitars, country Christian music is what I'm trying to say, and played guitars. And we sought to communicate. We used one point sermons, and some of the stuff that we had had on our training. That was very, very helpful. And so people gravitated to us. And that's where he was, he found our church. And he sort of started hanging around, and he was looking for a job. And I didn't know any employers, but I had a couple of phone numbers. I don't remember the specifics. But I said, well, here's a couple of places you could call. And so the next time I saw him about a week later, I said, So Fred, anything happened on those phone calls? And he said, No, I haven't called him it. I don't like to get in a hurry about these things. Well, it never even occurred to me at that point, to do anything but listen, it would have never occurred to me to challenge him and to say something like, What are you saying, Fred? I didn't know that there was such a thing as a biblical theology of work, of economics. I knew what I heard from my first nations brothers, and from our trainers, that yes, white people are greedy, and selfish, and they're all hung up on time, they'd starve to death if they didn't have a watch, whereas the native people, they enjoy their day, that's their value, they just want to enjoy their day. And if they want to go fishing, they just go fishing, they're gonna lose their job, but they'll get another job and they've got enough money for a while, whereas the white man he wants to go fishing, but he goes to his job because he's so insecure. And that was my view of all of this based on my training and experience. So when he said, "I don't get in a hurry about these things." It never occurred to me to say to him what I would say today, and that is, let's talk about this friend. Have you ever noticed that God gave you a body with muscles and hands and legs and and you were created to work? And when you work, you can earn what you need to take care of yourself and your family and give to others. That's how things work in God's creation, I encourage you to make it much more of a priority call and get a job,but I didn't have any of that on my radar. So when I read that book, Darrow, when I read that chapter, these things started popping out at me. And I realized, Oh, my goodness, we were missing that. And this whole thing about time.