We are talking all things book talk and tick tock today. And we are speaking specifically to an author whose work is often featured on the talk. I do not sound cool saying that, but I did try. Get ready. You will not want to miss today's discussion. I'm Sarah Wendell. I'm Alisha Rai. Welcome to lovestruck daily, where we talk about love every single week.
I'm in love with you. I'm in love with you.
This week is a deep dive into all things tic tock, which I am so excited about and have been enjoying so much. And one of the things that I think is important is how many perspectives there are within tic tock much like any form of social media, it's not a monolith. And there's lots of different ways in which people participate. We've got book publicists, we've got book talkers, we've got people who want their books to be on book talk, but don't know how that happens. And we have authors like you, who are creating amazing content for other people, what I
really love about it, and the reason I started it was because I just wanted to talk to people. Like I just wanted to connect with people somehow. And before that, I would connect with people, through my friends, I'd go to conferences, I did book signings, I mean, there was like, no shortage of how much I travelled, and oh, yeah, I wandered around meeting people. And all of a sudden, it got shut off really quickly. And I missed it. I mean, so much of our job is solitary, you know that to you know, even if the incident Yeah, even if it's not, I mean, you're also an author, but you know, whatever you like the primary nature of publishing is that it's solitary. And so I just wanted to connect with people. And I found a really great community who appreciated the weirdness and foolishness that I feel like I sometimes bring to the table, and I hadn't really found that on other platforms. But tick tock, they say that Instagram is for prettiness and tick tock is for personality and I feel like tick tock is also for pretty people but but it is for for people who have personality a thing. I think, if if that's what you use to connect with people, and I feel like that's what I've always used to connect with people is humour and the things I say I think, I think it was like a great outlet for that. So I do feel like those early days of tick tock like those. I hear the songs now. And I'm like, nostalgic. I mean, I'm not nostalgic for early 2020. But I am assaulted for that era.
I will tell you that in one of our cars, we have Sirius XM and there's a tick tock radio channel.
Yeah, I love it.
I love my younger child who is on tick tock was like, Mom, you gotta listen to this. So and my other child who's older is like, Oh, it's so bad. It's so bad. It's so bad. So I'm like, Alright, I'm in the car. I'll turn it on. And they're playing the Backyardigans. Yeah, and this is amazing. I'm listening in the backyard against in my car on Sirius XM nothing is wrong with the world at this time.
It's amazing to like think about things in terms of like pre tick tock and post doc and why we tick tock have influenced now or like, you know, Liz's latest hit which is amazing. Like the opening lines for it are made for tick tock. Like sometimes they're just made for tick tock and it's just, it's so cool to see see how one app can can change so many things.
And I also think that especially for you tick tock is like a venue in which you can release your inner theatre kid. It is a problem. Yeah,
I was a drama kid.
It was It is unfettered theatre kids and I love it so much. Well, this week, we are continuing to explore the intersection of theatre kids and the intersection of theatre kids and book people has brought us book talk, and it's book talk week. We're inviting one of our favourite authors onto the show to talk about her experience with booktalk.
Nisha Sharma is a good friend of mine. And she's also a prolific romance author in both light and adult romance. We have heard a thing for such incredible books such as my so called Bollywood life, dating Dr. Valle and several more upcoming projects. I'm very excited for her new series. As an author, she's watched the industry transform under the influence of booktalk. And we can't wait for to hear her take on absolutely everything. Please welcome you should Sharma.
Welcome Nisha, we are so excited to talk to you we are doing a deep dive into all things book talk, and you're the perfect person to talk to about this. So thank you so much for joining us.
I'm so glad to be here. This is super exciting.
It seems to me that a lot of the coverage I've seen of book talk lately has been I don't understand this strange phenomenon and it's very reminiscent of how people talked about book bloggers 15 years ago. So I feel that In my core, like it's very familiar, but it's also like wow, this again, we're gonna put down a new way of talking about books. Let's hop out we don't. So we're here to like really take a deep dive and celebrate all of the very cool things that booktalk is doing. Funny story, Alicia is the one who taught me how to use tick tock
Nisha is wonderful at getting people together. I think that is one of her biggest skills. So she assembled the South Asian romance authors in a little conference. And so I joined like, at the end of one day, like very casually basically drinking chips out of a bag. And it was funny because I was I brought my camera was off. So I like tilted the bag out toward my mouth and all of a sudden I hear so now we go totally deaf go.
Can we just talk about how Alicia
is eating chips. I was like, Hey, guys. And so somebody was like, Well, what is like, what is this tick tock, but I'm hearing about I think this was like last year, maybe sometimes a little bit earlier. And I was like, oh, man, I'd love Tik Tok, let
me like, and they're like, can
you show us some things. I was like, showing everybody how to set up their accounts. And it was like, there were like, 12 people in the room. Everybody's like, we I don't understand the difference between a cow. And you, Larry, it was amazing. But that was how Yes, I taught technically, I taught Misha Tiktok I don't think I actually taught her anything in that hour. It was very fun.
It was a lot of fun. But I
love Nisha about about you and your fun now at tick tock is that you and I do very different things on the app and use it in different ways. And I love that, like I love seeing how people take something very, you know, like the basic instructions I could give you from it. And you like went in a great different direction. And I think that's one of the great things about an app like Tiktok or Instagram. Oh, yeah,
I definitely think that book talk is a space where you also see those that and varied approach to like books and the way that people relate to stories. What I think is the most fascinating about book talk is that so many romance readers are coming to romance and you're watching their evolution, like play out in their videos, it's like, okay, you've now discovered this thing about romance, or you've now started to connect the dots. And that is that is something that I think as a as a baby author, when I joined the romance industry, God over a decade ago, I had gone through that, like except, you know, by myself, we didn't we didn't even have Instagram back then. You know, and now I'm watching those same feelings that I had, you know, in the privacy of my own home, reading through you know, like back then it was the rom com wave to like I was going through the Susan Elizabeth Phillips in the Jennifer Cruzi books. And now it's the same rom com way that people are kind of realising certain things that I had done 10 years ago.
That's the thing, which I love is that whenever a new influx of people come to romance, they start talking about things like we haven't been talking about them for decades already know,
for decades, because
remember, I mean you to both remember and I hope you know people who are listening can learn about the great cover controversy of the 50 shades air out
we'll be back after this short break
the great cover controversy of the 50 shades era where everything every cover was an object and it was a male centred object right and and the argument for those then was a It sells and beats because people aren't embarrassed reading it. And we have the same conversation wrap around then like Well, is it is it because we're you know, internally misogynist, we don't want to read it but you know, everything everything kind of comes full circle and in the early 2000s We also had illustrated romcoms and we have we have been having this conversation since for like for literally for decades for lifetimes at this point. And so it is it is so interesting to me that like and I mean good for you that you're addressing it at this point I'm like I'm tired keep going on this conversation but
that's I think we're I'm able to kind of even have a voice is because there are so many people who are addressing it head on like the way that we've been talking about it. But the one thing that I think people that I can contribute to is how marginalised voices are consistently excluded from this conversation and so very much though you know we're just are I'm just starting to see people who look like me on my covers so for you to say that people are now no longer go should no longer be included on covers anymore. Well, okay, like we What about the fact that I'm finally seeing representation? Are you also impacting on my community as well,
I saw that tick tock of yours. And I was going to I put it in my drafts to stitch it actually, because and I'll just tell people now, my very first cover, it had an Indian heroine on it, this was in 2008 2009, they took a white girl tinted her skin, brown, and then added factor, like photoshopped her bigger. And that was my Indian woman representation at the time. So times have very much changed. And things are different. And I love clinch covers, I yearned for the day that, you know, marketing puts them back. I don't know if we're gonna ever return to mass markets because of cost. But that's another story. But that mass market clench in Walmart, like, that was my dream when I was like, just starting out in the early 2000s. Like I and I was writing and I was, you know, I was imagining my book in like Walmart, or target or a grocery store. That was what I imagined, like, change cover. And I remember I remember how disheartened I was when I got that first cover. And I thought, There's no way like, I'm never gonna get anybody who looks like me on a cover my gosh, and then fast forward to I think it was wrong to need you. They did a cover shoot for it, because they couldn't find any, again, dearth of stock photos with brown or black people on them. And they did a cover, shoot, and I cried when I got that cover, shoot, because I was like, Oh, my God, this is, you know, like, this is what I wanted all those years ago. Yeah, you know, eight or nine years ago, it took me eight or nine years. And it took me getting a publisher and then putting out the money. So like, there's multiple blockades to this. This is not something that like a random indie author can do. I couldn't do it as an indie author, I couldn't afford a cover shoot. I couldn't afford, you know, any of those. And a smaller publisher can't either. And also, publishers don't want to put the money out aren't going to put the money out. So. So the idea that like, Oh, we don't want any more, because it's embarrassing. Well, some of us never got the chance to have it. Yeah. Right. So let us have it. You know, like, let us have that. And you know what, like, I know that's not the trend right now. But it does. You know, it's uh, Romans eight does. It was a trend for many years. Yeah, covers have a lot of work to do in a very short time very much. So. Yeah. It is so interesting to me. I don't know Nisha, if you've seen the recent coverage because, I mean, I I've been on Tik Tok. Now, since like early pandemic days you've been on since last year ish. Right? How long have you been on? About a year and a half? Right? Over a year? Yeah. Yeah, a little over a year. And so I think we're both fairly early adopters of it. And when I joined, I remember the reaction from the community was like, that is so cringy. Like, what are you doing on that kids app? Like they were making fun? Probably making fun of me. I remember that. Yeah. And so I was like, whatever, I don't care. I'll just keep going. Because I fully believe that in order to succeed in life, you have to be cringy. Amen. So true about when, when I was teaching you guys, you know, zoom, the reaction from a lot of the authors and around us was like, I guess I should learn it. But I don't really know. And recently, there's been like a New York Times article that came out, there's been like, a lot of coverage about how if you're not on booktalk, as an author, you're going to die like you are going to wither on the vine, and I am getting panicked emails. And like questions. I went to a conference a couple of weeks ago, I went to the American Booksellers Association Conference. And like, there was an error of like, we're missing out, like, we're missing money on the table. And, and it sort of disheartens me like, it makes me a little bit sad, because I do think one of the great things about the app, personally, like this is just a personal opinion is, is that it is so it feels off the cuff, like it feels like we're just there, and we're just showing our personality and having fun. And when you put like a money aspect into it, yeah, it kind of like, huh, like it's not, I don't know if the content is going to be a sale. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Are you sensing that same same air from authors or from publishing in general? Because I definitely am. I'm feeling
I certainly am and I'm not even on Tik Tok.
So like, I have two thoughts about this. The first is like nothing on social media is going to work for an author, if it's not coming from an authentic place, like the I'm 100% believe that like, Absolutely, if you are going into something and you're going in rehearsed, and you're like smiling, like you're smiling for a picture, and you're like, read my book, like, it's not going to work for you. And I And I'm saying that as someone who like has supported marketing organisations and tech companies for years, like the very first thing that they ask you is what is true? Like what is true? And if that is not your true self, that is not going to work? And I mean, maybe some people can make it work because they develop this whole additional identity. But there's truth to that additional identity right? ate like, there's still some sort of truth to that additional identity. So I will say that like, if you're going on there with like, not bringing your authentic self to your platforms and trying to build a brand based on something that, you know, you think other people want to see from you, you know, I don't know how long that's sustainable. So the second piece I will say about, you know, tick tock and the desperation, the stench of desperation,
it is excess, right, yeah.
I don't know why we aren't turning to publishers and telling them, hey, well, this is this continues to be publishers putting the work on authors to do their own marketing. Damn right. Why are we paying new royalties? We'll be right back after this short break.
Why are we paying new royalties? Like, you know, a chunk of our sales, not going to be doing the work that we're contacting you for? So you know, this is another, I think, crack and Fisher in the current publishing model that needs to be re evaluated and reinvented in a way that is sustainable, and equitable for all types of, you know, readers, authors and professionals?
How did you build your following? What was your sort of tick tock trajectory and building of the audience that you have now.
So when I joined tick tock, Alicia, like taught us how to set up our profile, I did my very first video like the next day, and my plan was to really just get better romance recommendations, I felt like I was, this is, you know, early pandemic, before we had the vaccine, I was living out of like, a pod, and in my parents retirement home, because we were in between houses. And I just wanted some really great comfort reads. And so I thought, let me just kind of find my place on book talk, figure out how to get these recommendations. And then, you know, I can just maybe talk about my book every once in a while and be done with it. I started to see like some people make very broad statements about the genre because they were early in their book talk experience, or their their romance reading experience. And they were sharing the those very broad statements on book talk. And I felt like I had to comment on that because I was like, wait a minute, let's hold up like you're you're ignoring marginalised communities, you are ignoring a lot of individuals who have worked very hard in the industry to bring not only like a platform for marginalised voices, but to pave the pathway for other writers. And so that's kind of where I ended up, where most of my videos kind of end up like, between spicy book racks, Mafia romance recommendations, and talking about marginalise authors in the romance industry. So someone had told me very early on that if I wanted to grow, my following should just be consistent. And I had a lot of things to say. So that has never been a problem, because I always have. So I just made a video a day for like, the first six months and a year later, I think I'm over. I'm almost at 16,000. So Wow. Yeah,
we did go. That's amazing. Yeah, it's
been it's been a journey because I feel like while I've also a while I've been sharing knowledge. It's also been a really interesting experience connecting with marginalised creators and other activists, specifically in diversity, equity and inclusion, which is where my what my day job is? Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I'm so I'm a I'm the Head of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at a global tech company. Oh, as you do Holy crap. It's a lot of it's a lot of activist work. And I feel like I've connected with other people who also are romance readers and really passionate about romance. So there's this intersection of both of my identities, that has a place in a corner, a book talk, and we're all talking about things now, like about the huge problem we have with banned books. The problems that we have with marginalised identities being quieted without, you know, like any sort of awareness or news or anything you find out later, like I didn't realise dating Dr. Though, which was my last release was banned in like three or four different libraries in my own state. Oh my gosh, yeah. And I didn't know about it until a reader had mentioned it to me. And so, you know, these are like the kinds of conversations that I'm now having in the books talk space. It's been a it's been a wild ride.
It's a wild ride. What are your favourite things to do on tick tock? What are the things that you have seen? You have done that gives you that. Oh yes this is gonna be great feeling the one that Alicia has like five times a day. I wish
I think like the ones that I love are generally not the ones that go viral unfortunately. Yes,
it's very true. Yeah,
right. Like the videos that I love to make are usually the ones who get like less than 1000 views for the videos that I do off the cuff like I wake up I have no makeup on I barely comb my hair, you know are the ones that get 10,000 views and you know, that's what everyone remembers me like how I look. But I love talking about books that I am absolutely obsessing over Yeah, and the the stuff that I I feel like take a lot of my energy but I think are important are actually the ones that end up get the most views which are like, right now there's a conversation about like, do we remove, like the clinch cover like because people are unpacking their own internalised misogyny. And they are, are realising things about themselves and saying it online without taking a pause, and realising what the impact of what they're saying like saying half naked individuals uncovers is cringe may also like speak more about where you are in your journey than it does about your tastes and romance. And so, you know, that's, that's something that a lot of people are addressing right now in book talk. But I also addressed
I want to ask you, Nisha, what are some of your very favourite book talk accounts? Oh, that's
a great question. Okay, so, bookworm bullet who is really a champion for South Asian romance. Another person who I absolutely love. Her name is Sam janai. And she does these incredible video deep dives. She's right now getting her master's in psychology. So the way that she analyses romance is really interesting. Of course, the two creators of booktalk, who actually had kind of identified the tag and started creating books, videos, and that is Kate's books. And then the other one is amens books. Those are definitely I think, some of my favourite accounts.
Thank you. And before we wrap up, please tell us your tick tock username so people can follow you.
You can find me at Nisha writes WRI te s which is the same on all of my social media accounts.
Thank you so much for joining us, Nisha, it has been absolutely delightful.
Absolutely. Alicia, I
think I could talk to Nisha about tick tock with you for hours and hours and never get bored. Well,
you know, what you can do at my wedding is talk to me.
It's gonna be a long way you're gonna be there. I'm RSVP for both of you right now.
Oh, I'm literally opening opposition and filled it out. I screw around with RSVP. Get very attentive to them. I could talk to Nisha about tick tock and books for hours. Yeah, this could be a four hour show. And I would be super onboard for
Happy as a clam.
Yep. Yep. She's fantastic. But in all things tradition,
we do need to love to go. And I have I have to love to. You have to All right, go for it.
So the first one is what you said don't be afraid to be cringy. This is the intersection of book people in theatre kids, just let it out. Just let it all out. Yep. The other thing I'm going to be a little bit weird and nerdy because I think the nerd element needs to be explored. Carl Sagan once said, we have travelled this way before and there is much to be learned. We have travelled through all of these elements of promotion and social media and new ways of talking about books and yet we are still exploring the same issues of identity and authenticity. And that is both wonderful, and a little discouraging, but I'm focusing on the wonderful. We would
love to hear about your favourite book tock accounts or tick tock accounts you can email us at lovestruck daily at frolic dot media or you know what just message us personally, I mean, we're happy to look these up on our own. And we would love to hear from you.
And if you're curious about booktalk you can find Nisha at Nisha writes and Alicia where can people find you on the TIC tock?
Oh, yeah, you can find me at the real Alicia ride. Because Alicia writes was already taken.
How dare How dare How dare thank you so much for joining us today and come back for one more amazing episode all about look talk. If you are looking for more of me, Sarah, you can find me at Smart bitches trashy books.com I'm at Smart bitches just about everywhere and on your pod catcher at Smart podcast, trashy books.
You can find me Alicia on Tik Tok at the real Alicia Right? Or on Instagram at Alicia ry writes or on Twitter at Alicia I also have a website Alicia ry.com And you can find me and Kai together on our new YouTube channel.
The happy place. Our researcher is Jesse Epstein. Our editor is Jen Jacobs. We are produced by Abigail steckler and little Scorpion studios with executive producer frolic media this is an I Heart Radio Podcast. Have a very happily ever after today I'm in love with the love with you I'm in love with you what's your favourite book talk? Do you have a favourite channel? Is it a channel? Is it what is it? Yeah, is it is it a channel is it is it a screen knit with a book is the right word.
