You're listening to Cubicle to CEO episode 220. It's time to supercharge your sales game. Our guest today is Dielle Charon, a seven figure sales expert for women of color coaches, who maintains an incredible 100% sales call conversion rate, making $310,000 on her last launch with a $15,000 offer. Dielle is a true practitioner of what she preaches. And she's walking us through exactly what she does pre, during, and post call with a play by play of her exact sales call structure - from opening smile to sending the invoice with a 24 hour payment policy. Whether you're terrified of sales calls, or love them like Dielle, if you're not closing every single call yet this case study is for you.
Welcome to cubicle to CEO the podcast. I'm your host Ellen Yin. I quit my job without a backup plan and bootstrapped my first $300 freelance project into $2 million in revenue by age 28. On the show, you'll hear weekly case study interviews with leading entrepreneurs and CEOs who share one specific strategy that successfully grew their business revenue. Skip the expensive and time consuming learning curve of testing everything yourself by borrowing what actually works from the best and brightest mentors. You'll also get a front row seat to my founders journey through transparent income reports and behind the business solo episodes, subscribe now so we can grow together every Monday.
Hey friends, I am thrilled to welcome Dielle Charon to the show today. I have the pleasure and the honor of speaking at Dielle's event next year for her clients the Emancipation Experience. I'm so excited to be there in Washington DC, with you Dielle, and your people. But for today I am really really looking forward to our conversation because it's been a long, long time since we've had anyone on here with a case study specific to sales calls. And I know that this is a hot button topic. people either love sales calls or detest them, and I'm really excited to hear your take on it. So welcome Dielle.
I'm so excited to be here. I can't wait.
All right Dielle. Let's first preface what the case study is right. So you had a six figure launch with 100% sales call conversions. You made $310,000 in revenue. And this was with a $15,000 offer. I'm going to get into the details of the case study in just a moment. But I have to hear first what is your own Cubicle the CEO story. What was that final catalyst that made you take the leap into entrepreneurship? Yeah,
So I started off my career as a social worker. And that influences a lot of my philosophies on sales calls. I'm all about no sleaziness, no sliminess, very social justice oriented. And so I started off in social work, I got a job at Duke University. I thought I made it. But I also had six figures of student loan debt in a three hour commute. So I was like, Yes, I would take two buses in a 30 minute walk to work every single day, I had a car, but the university parking was $100 a month. And I could not afford that on a $2,500 a month paycheck, like that was my groceries right there. And so I was like, okay, the bus is free. So I would wake up super early and stay up super late catching this bus trying to get to work every single day. And I obviously couldn't keep up with it. I knew that I wanted to have a family. And also I just didn't like the impact that I was having at the university. And so I side hustled for three years. And I think that's the part too that, there's not a lot of conversations about like, we hear the six figures in six months and the fast success and the fast quitting, that was not me whatsoever. It took me three years to quit my job. And the pandemic really helped when I was able to finally work from home and I save all those commuting hours. And I was able to finally create a full time income on part time hours.
Wow. I love actually that you have that more slow, intentional approach to having built up the solid foundation and then allowing yourself the opportunity to run full force with your business and wow, what a business you have built multi seven figure coach, you're helping other women of color coaches do the same. I find that very inspiring as a woman of color myself. And I do want to ask real quick before we get into the case study because you brought up this point of how you feel like your career background as a social worker directly impacts how you approach sales calls. This is actually a topic that I feel really passionate about. And I've said it actually multiple times in recent weeks where I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs believe that when they make a drastic career change, that they are starting from ground zero when in reality there are so many transferable skills. So out of curiosity, what do you feel is the biggest trends verbal skill that you have taken from your work as a social worker and applied it to what you do now?
I would say there's two. So number one, talking to people, right, talking to people, and building relationships with people. So the way my job worked was, I would have practically a stranger come into my office. And this was when I was working at Duke, but also other nonprofits and other jobs that I had, I would have a stranger come into my office, and it was my job to help them, I had to figure out their problem very, very quickly, and give them the right service that would help them accomplish whatever goal they had. And so I would have to build trust and rapport for people to tell me the truth, very, very quickly, a stranger and especially like the stigma of a social worker, right, who's all about bureaucracy and just checking off boxes, we definitely aren't trained that like when I went to social work school, and I got my master's. But that's like the stigma that's portrayed in the movies, right. And so I was already up against this barrier, especially with how young I am, too. And so I had to learn, okay, I have to build very fast like relationship building skills with them trust with them very quickly, loyalty, confidentiality, safety with them very quickly, in order to refer them to a service. And that's essentially what a sales call is. And so I got really good at that skill.
And then I'll say the second one is pretty random. But event planning, I have planned a lot of events for the students at Duke from like 10, person dinners to 300 person conferences, and speaking engagements for some of the speakers at Duke. And so I got really good at planning events. And so I definitely have taken that skill in my business at my own events, you've been to several events. And so just learning how to manage events also is another transferable skill.
That's really great to hear. And the second one was a little surprising to me, because I guess, you know, you don't often associate social work with event planning. But again, that I feel like that just speaks to the broad scope of skills that we all use in our everyday not only careers, but also just in our everyday lives. And I hope that this encourages you, if you're listening, if you just made your own leap into entrepreneurship, or you've been a seasoned entrepreneur for a while and you've made a drastic pivot, remembering that you are not starting over, you have so many things you can take with you to that next adventure.
So back to the case study, though, because I have a lot of questions. I told you before we hit record, you're gonna be in the hot seat today. So yeah, I'm so I'm so glad you're here for this. Okay, so $15,000 offer $310,000 in revenue generated. I did the quick math on this. That's about 20 total sales. Is that correct? Yes. Okay, perfect. And then, of those 20 sales, 12 of them came directly from a sales call, you had 12 sales calls booked and 100% of those sales calls actually converted to paying clients, which is incredible. I mean, 100% sales call conversion. Who doesn't want that? Who doesn't want to know the magic behind that? Before we actually talk about the structure of the sales call, I think it'd be helpful for our listeners to understand what was this $15,000 offer? Can you describe that for us?
Sure. So I'll talk about both of my offers. And we'll make more sense on a little bit why we charge $15,000 for a mastermind. So I have two programs. One is called Five Figure Freedom, which helps women of color part time coaches create a full time income, we help them make their first sale, first five figures and then a full time income. And so it's right perfect for those side hustlers, those people starting out, and especially those who want to get better with sales calls and sell what sales calls that offers $2,500. It was $5,000 lifetime access. But we just literally this month brought it down to $2,500 for 12 months. And right now we have 300 people in that offer. So that's kind of like my bread and butter offer. I love that offer. I was working in the offer for years and years and years. And I had so many people hit six figures hit multiple six figures very quickly. And they wanted to know what that next step is.
So I created Six Figure Liberation, and that is the $15,000 mastermind. This is my third time selling it at $15,000. It first was $10,000. And then it was $12,000. And this is my third round at $15,000. It was six months, but we just gave it 12 month access. So it's now a 12 month mastermind, it includes how to create five figure one on one clients. So a 10,000 one on one package, a $20,000 one on one package, and then how to have which is my favorite thing in the world a six figure launch. We have so many clients that have had their first six figure launch with us we love talking about launching in that offer. And a lot of them do it with sales call. So we talk about sales calls and both of the contexts but in different offers and different ways to match the client.
That's super helpful to hear that context and I love that the mastermind came as a graduation step from the needs that your own students expressed. And I just want to take this moment to also subtly highlight how Dielle has done such a great job of relaunching the same offer over and over, I think it's so easy to get shiny object syndrome and you know, you launch something once and then you're like, Okay, gotta go create something new. I think there is something to be said about consistency and refining the same offer that really leads to more accelerated success. Would you agree there?
Oh, 100%, I've had the same business model. So the same two offers since 20, and 21. And I'm getting them better and better and launching them better and better and selling them differently and better. So I'll do a webinar one launch, or I'll do a free challenge one launch or do a waitlist. And I'm always trying to optimize my conversion. But we don't plan on launching anything drastically new next year, either and 2024. And so I'm a big proponent of having the same offers. And one my ask like, oh, that's boring, or I'm so multi passionate, or I have other things and other ventures and other things I want to do. So do I, like I'm actually self publishing a book, I have a podcast, I have a YouTube channel, I speak. And so I have other things going on in my business as well. But one of the things I tell my clients too, is you can be multi passionate in one offer.
So if I want to talk about lead generation, I'll do a lead generation clinic with my clients. If I want to talk about we just recently over the summer, so many of my clients were like, do you get such great results, I want to be a better coach. So we did something called Coach-ella where I talked about how I think about coaching, right, like getting my clients results. And we had games and I had speakers come in. And it was this whole like mini summit that we did within the offer. And so I allow myself to be creative. I allow myself to talk about different things, but within the context of my two offers, and I also think that just helps with brand awareness. Like people we know about Five Figure Freedom people know about Six Figure Liberation, and I think it also just builds trust to like, Oh, my God, this program has been around for years and years and years, look at all the people that it's helped. I think it helps with that as well.
Absolutely all very, I think, strong points. And I like that takeaway that you can be multi passionate within an offer. And I see that and even what you said about how for different launches, you might test different modalities of selling, whether it's a webinar, waitlist, you know, sales calls, although I feel like sales calls are probably a consistent player in all these different launches. So the $15,000 offer, then, on a more granular level, were there any payment plans offered for this? Or was it all pay in full? And what did you see as far as that percentage split between people who chose one versus the other?
Yes, and so we did have a payment plan, it was $3,750 for four months. So pretty high payment plan. But I have found for that higher level client, they want to get it over with they want to get it done, it's easier for their books just to have it paid up. And so that's why we have a higher payment plan versus when five figure freedom was $5,000, we had a 10 month payment plan for that beginner client. So I think you can also tweak your payment plans, or like versus the client and like what they want for their bookkeeping. And so that's what the payment plan was the majority of the clients, I want to say, outside of three out of the 20, they paid with the payment plan, and then it has three pay in fulls.
Okay, that's really helpful to know. And I think that you're so right, just relating to myself when I make big investments. I mean, there are a few times in certain seasons of my business like right now when we're rebuilding a new model that I do try to take up payment plans when possible to stretch the cash flow. But most of the time when I've invested it has been all pay in full because you're right, I want to just have it like free and clear on my books, I know exactly what budget I have left for the rest of the year to invest in other things. So that's a great point to cater it towards the stage that your client you're serving could potentially be in. And of the 12 people that did end up booking a call with you was actually I should clarify that were the sales calls with you specifically or were they with a member of your sales team.
Bear with me, I do not have a sales team. And I can't tell you how many times I open up the Zoom Room and they're like, it's you and I'm like it's me. Like they're expecting a closer right. They're expecting closer and I have dreams one day of having my own sales call agency. I'll have to figure out the systems for that. But no, I do all my sales calls. No one converts as well as I do, obviously. And so I would cost me money to have a closer like I would lose sales if I got a closer so I love them to they're my favorite part of my business. And so my team clears my calendar and I do the sales calls. Yeah.
And I think that's a fair point to assess to that, if A sales calls are your strength but B you actually enjoy them. I think this is another great reminder Are for our listeners to give yourself permission to, quote unquote still be in the weeds. Even if you're more an advanced entrepreneur, if it's something you actually like, I think sometimes there's this weird stigma or shame around if you reach a certain level of business, and you're still answering your own emails, or you're still doing your own sales calls. It's like, gasps like that that is wrong. And you should be, you know, trying to delegate or outsource out of that. But I feel like if it's something that you genuinely love, and that you're great at, there's no shame in continuing to do that. In fact, I think it's just playing to your strengths, like you said, exactly.
And also, if I get on my soapbox for just like 15 seconds,
I love a good soapbox.
Yeah. I'm also a stickler for business coaches, if I am teaching something, I want to be able to still be doing it and refining it. So I used to do sales calls for my Five Figure Freedom program. We don't anymore, we don't have a sales call option, you can just sign up and buy it. And we have webinars and other assets for you to learn more information. But I only do sales calls twice a year. And it's such a foundational thing of what I teach my clients. So I always like to be on the pulse of what I'm teaching my clients, I want to be updating and improving my strategies based off of what I'm trying. And so especially if you teach it like especially if you teach it, I think it's helpful to be on the ground with the things that you teach.
Absolutely. And to your points, 12 sales calls twice a year. It's not such a big lift, right? I mean, it's not like you're booking 100 calls back to back. So I think that feels very reasonable, very realistic and doable. I'm curious for the leads that came in through this launch. So the 20 total that bought the 12 that specifically booked a sales call. What was the main traffic source for these leads? Was it organic? Was it your email list your social was it from ads or referral source? Tell us a little bit more about how you were qualifying these leads, were booking a call.
So good. So some of them came from my Five Figure Freedom program, I would say maybe three or four of them did. And so they already had a relationship with me. Some of them came from outside guests speaking opportunities that I had. So they saw my style. Others came from my email list directly no call or they it was their first time ever speaking to me or hearing me speak in that way. And then some came from Instagram, social media, and then I can't really track if people came directly from my podcast, you know, those numbers are hard, but a few of them mentioned that my podcast is where they initially found me.
Awesome. So it sounds like all organic sources. Did you run any ads at all?
We have a love hate relationship with ads, we are in the beginning stages. This is the first year ever that we are trying ads last year where I made my first million this year. I'll do like 1.5 1.6. But last year, I did one even. And we didn't do any ads our first million dollar year. So I was like, Okay, let's see, we can do ads this year, and it hasn't really moved the needle much. We're still gonna keep plugging at it. But yeah, hasn't moved the needle much for us.
Well, that's really impressive. I mean, we love an organic queen, right? Especially if you don't, especially if you don't have to fork over money to meta or whatnot, Google. That's really awesome to hear. Okay, so we talked about where these leads are coming from, you're taking on these calls yourself, the eight that chose not to take a sales call was that because they didn't feel the need to talk to you? Is it because you didn't give them the option and you just felt like they were ready to go straight to checkout? What was the I guess the decision process around those eight that didn't have a call.
Completely their choice. And so how it works is they fill out an application, it auto like corrects or auto decides if they qualify based off of their just income requirements, we have a $50,000 income requirement. So if they hit that, then they say, okay, great. You've been approved? Do you need a link to just sign up? Or would you like a sales call? And so the eight that chose that they didn't need it, they didn't need it at all. And so we also are real time looking at all the applications and some applications, we've stopped to be like, Oh, okay, they meet the income requirement. But something's a little off here. And we'll tell them, hey, Dielle really wants to speak with you. So my team and I are watching the applications in real time just to catch any red flags. But other than that, it's an automatic process. And they can decide.
Okay, that's really helpful. And then the income qualifier is that the only I guess, qualifier before they reach the option of being able to book a sales call, or is the sales call link, the booking link, something that you kind of have even more I guess, control or intentionality over who gets to book a sales call.
I'm open to do sales calls with anyone. If people are like, Hey, we have a $50,000 income requirement. Hey, I'm at 42 And I'm like, Listen Right, like let's talk let's book a sales call. So in those instances, it's helpful. But no, I don't have any other qualifiers on the sales call form to kick people out. No.
Okay, great. Thank you for clarifying what else is on your booking form that you think would be helpful for our listeners to know if they're, you know, wanting to implement more sales calls and wanting to create their own booking form.
Okay, so hot take number one, here we go. All right. I believe in putting your prices up for several reasons. And that obviously helps my conversion, right. And so I believe in putting your prices up now, that doesn't mean you're gonna convert everyone, just because they know your price, you still have to do an excellent sales call. That is one of the things that I hear people say, to me all the time is like, Do you believe in posting your prices, my prices are up. And I'm still not converting, it's because of the actual sales call that needs improvement. And so you still need to know how to convert, but I think it does several things. I think it warms the client up to the price and they can mull on it before the sales call. I also think that it will inspire your client to look for the evidence that your price is worth it.
So what I mean is I've had several clients be like, Oh my god, sticker shock, $15,000, and then the listen to my podcast and be like, Oh my gosh, she's helped so many people have six figure launches, oh, my gosh, she's helped so many people quit her job, they then sell themselves on the price, not 100%, but maybe 60% of the time before they get on a sales call. And also, just for ethical reasons. I never want someone to experience fight or flight on a sales call in front of somebody they admire, they look up to they respect, which is us on a coaching call, I never want that dynamic to happen on a sales call where they're sticker shock, they might have shame and might trigger some money fears. And so I rather not have that experience, I'd rather have it based on connection and offering them the service of my program. And so I believe in posting our prices. So put your prices up is number one.
I also think name in the business space, name, niche, what their problem is, and then what they want to solve in the program. And that's it, we have five or so questions. We don't require people to fill out this 20 part situation or this 20 part sequence. And I think people would probably say, well, then how do you qualify people? Like how do you make sure they're the right fit? And fundamentally, I just believe that I can help anyone that has a $50,000 coaching business, I can get you to six and multiple six figures. And that sales call is there for me to learn a little bit more about you. But fundamentally, I believe that I can help you like I'm not super worried about having a bad egg and my container. I've coached several different people. I have supported hundreds and hundreds of people. And I also think my social work background helped me with that because I wouldn't know who would come into my office. I wouldn't know what issue they would have. I saw all sorts of people I worked in the prison system for a while so I heard it all. There's very little that scares me.
Dielle Charon has a hot take sales calls are the highest performing sales strategy in the industry. Even Amy Porterfield is adding them to her launches. There is a way to do sales calls without slimy scripts, copy and paste templates or begging people to enroll inside of five figure freedom a 12 month sales group coaching program to help women of color coaches hit five figure months Dielle a social worker turned sales coach teaches and ethical and trauma informed sales call strategy that has helped her and her clients make six and seven figures. You can find more details at DielleCharon.com/freedom. That's spelled DielleCharon.com/freedom will also drop a clickable link below in the show notes.
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I really like the perspective that you just shared on not putting someone in a fight or flight response. That's the first time I've heard someone say that, you know, I've I've talked to other people who are transparent with pricing, we like to, at the very least give a range of prices, if it's something that's more bespoke, and not a flat standard price for anything. So I agree, I tend to lean more on the side of price transparency as well. But I've never heard someone phrase it in in that way where it's like, you're so right, though, if you are talking to someone who you really look up to that you view as a mentor, it can be a very shameful thing, if you feel that the money is the only thing standing in your way of working with them. And you don't want to offend them in any way by saying oh, I don't think you know, I can't pay that not because you don't think it's valuable, but you're afraid that they might perceive it that way. And so that's such a great point, I really, really liked that you said that.
So I hope that gives our listeners some food for thought. And then the other piece just again, highlighting for listeners I really liked. Also how you are giving them an opportunity to place the consideration process, I guess, on the front end instead of the back end so that you don't deal as much, I'm assuming at least with people saying after the call, oh, I need some time to think about it. Because they've already done the majority of the thinking ahead of time is that tend to be what you find.
Exactly, exactly. And if we think about it, that's what our marketing is for our marketing is for us to overcome as many objections as possible for us to showcase the value of our offer for us to talk about our results. Like that's what our marketing is for. And so I always say my clients are not surprised at my prices on a sales call, because they've seen all the marketing that we've done. They've seen all the testimonials, they've seen all that work upfront, and they already have their mind made up.
Yeah, and to your point, like everything is relative, right? When you compare what you're investing to the potential outcome. And like you said, if the majority of your clients are having six figure launches, $15,000 in exchange for a minimum of 100,000 feels like an obvious choice, because it's like, it's you know, I always compare it to like an ATM, like who wouldn't feed $1 into an ATM, if they could get $5 out who wouldn't feed $1,000 into that ATM if you knew you could get $5,000 out. So it's kind of like, like you said, it allows people to get creative with okay, if I know this to be true, how can I make this possible for myself and they get creative with the solution. So great, great hot takes, I have another one for you in just a moment.
But first, I want you to actually walk us through the magic of your sales call. So like imagine that you're taking me and our listeners with you like where that person sitting opposite you on a zoom screen. Walk us through the full call from like how you started to what questions you asked to how you might address certain common challenges or questions that come up. I'd love to hear your take on the sales call.
Let's do it. Let's do it. So first thing I do is open up the Zoom Room with a smile. I can't tell you how many sales calls I've been one where the person is like, be grudgingly there or like mad that they're there or like annoyed, right? They're kind of like, Hey, how are you? Alright, let's dive in versus greet the client with a smile. And just you want to give some pleasantries back and forth. You want to do a little bit of connection, I typically ask, Where are you from? How would you find me? And they're typically so excited to talk to me like, oh my god Dielle. I'm so excited. I love your content. I love your podcast. And we do a little bit of back and forth there.
From there, and I think this is really important, I set the tone of the call. So a lot of things when it comes to sales call is just energy and leadership, right? Not control leadership. So I say awesome. So glad that you're here. Let me run down everything we're going to do today. So I'm going to ask you a ton of questions about your business. I want to get a good picture. And then I'm going to put together a specific plan on how I think I can help you and then I'll tell you more about the offer and we'll talk about the price and if it's a good fit. What are your thoughts so upfront within the first two minutes, they know that this is not a free call. They know that this is a Call where we're going to talk about the program. And I'm not offering free coaching, and that we're going to see and do a diagnostic on if we can help you. And we're going to talk about money and talk about the offer. So when you give all of that upfront, you minimize their anxiety, you let them know exactly what's going to happen step by step. And you can do each phases of what I just shared freely because the client knows about it. I think transparency, this conversation of transparency is so important. And we can get better conversions if we just tell people what to expect, right? And we can just walk people through that.
And so that's how I start my calls. And then they say, Great, that sounds amazing. I say awesome. So I do something I call triage. And so triaging is just like how you go to urgent care or the doctor. So you necessarily don't want to think about it like the doctor, you want to think about it, like the nurse who takes your vitals before you go see the doctor. So they're like, Okay, what are your symptoms? What's going on? Do you have this problem? Do you have that problem, and you want to triage the client, that's what I call it, you want to get very, very specific on what their problems is. So one of my philosophies, too, is no scripts. Scripts are one of the main things that will ruin your sales calls, because you're so worried about checking off the boxes, so you lose the client.
So I'll give an example. Say I'm on a sales call for six figure liberation, and we're talking about somebody's launch, right? They're like, Oh, my God, I only got two people on my launch, I want to 10 I'm not then going to jump to Okay, well, then how's your social media doing? I'm going to say, Okay, why do you think you only got two people? What was your webinar title? What actually happened in the launch? Did you do sales calls? Oh, you hate sales calls? Tell me why. Right. I'm going to triage and I call it 'stay with the client', I'm not going to follow my step by step script, I'm going to get very specific and granular with what the client is experiencing. Once I have those problems. I'm also going to ask what is their dream situation? And I want to get very detailed to so they're like, I want to make $100,000. I'll ask them. Why do you want to make $100,000? In what way do you want to make that money? How much do you want to work? Right? Why is this important to you? I'm gonna get very specific and granular with what their dreams are. And so I'll keep emphasizing this. No scripts for the love of God, no scripts, you want to stay as custom. And as tailored to the client as possible during the triage stage. Another way that I teach it is think about like the robo calls that we get, or for at the bank teller, and we're like, 'speak with a representative speak with a representative'
Literally me screaming into the phone. Yeah
Literally, right. They have a script, they have those contrived things where you're like, none of those options are me. That's what happens when we use sales scripts, we're just like the bank teller. And we're just like the robo calls. And so it's so important to like, throw everything out of the window and stay specifically with the client. So that's step one is triage.
Then we go to treatment plan. So the treatment plan, we're thinking about Doctor helping profession, words, social work words, the treatment plan is just three things you're going to help the client with. Inserting the treatment plan will be so helpful, what I see a lot of people do with their sales calls, is they will literally just say, Okay, well, I think I can help you. Here's my program. Versus if you put a treatment plan in it's like, oh, we're going to get specific with this, we're going to help you with this, we're going to help you with that. And we're going to help you with this. One, two, and three, and getting very, very specific and granular was what those things are, we're going to help you make $100,000 while also taking care of your baby. And also while your husband's in medical school by putting you on a 10 hour work week schedule, where you will also be able to include your self care days. Right? Does everyone see like how specific that is? Right?
And then people ask me, Well, how do I get that specific? It depends on your triage. Right? How specific you get on your triage is how specific you'll get in your treatment plan. And then once the client loves a treatment plan, you will then get into the nitty gritty details of the offer. But by then their sold, They're busting out of the seams ready to work with you. You like solve their problem. You understood them deeply. You really like showed that you cared about them. And also you didn't talk about you. You didn't talk about your framework. You didn't talk about how fancy you are and how many things you've been able to do and you didn't talk about anything else other than them. They already know you they already have seen what you have done. They've already have seen your story they already know you and if they have questions, so ask but you want to make that sales call about them. Everything about them. I don't tell them my fancy Disney World launch process. I don't tell them you know I have this special podcast formula for them. I don't say anything that they haven't said.
So, to recap, triage treatment plan, tell the offer and with telling the offer, you'll say, I have a 12 month mastermind, it's $15,000. And includes two calls a week, one on one coaching, a course portal, and also a coaching submission portal where you can submit your webinars, your content, your sales, call evaluations, emails, anything. Uh, we'll look at it in 48 hours. What are your thoughts? That's literally the offer for liberation? What are your thoughts?
Yeah, simple to the point. I'm nodding, vigorously, I was also taking notes as you were talking, because I didn't want to lose track of all the gems that you threw in there, I resonate so much with your sales call approach is very, very similar to how I've run sales calls both for my agency in the past, how I taught it back when I had coaching programs. But I love the analogy, especially I think I'm such a sucker for analogies and that like health oriented triage treatment plan, and then you know, tell the offer, I want to kind of almost start at the beginning and just pull out my favorite pieces to really help this sink in for some of our listeners.
And it's how I learned to is like to reprocess what you said, the diagnostic piece, I think that is also another really unique way that you have framed something that I haven't heard someone else say, which is exactly what you were talking about with you setting. I mean, the power of the pre frame, right, I always preach about giving context and pre frame. So the fact that you set expectations early on, that this is a diagnostic of potential gaps in their business, not a chance for them to just free for all ask you any advice. I think that is a really awesome piece. I want people to remember that write that word down diagnostic and think about how you're showing up in that way. And then I think throughout the process, what is the overall theme is that you're allowing your potential clients to be more expansive, right? Like you said, you're following the client and asking very specific questions based on where they lead you, which I find to be very interesting, because at the beginning, you said, you're showing up as a leader, not as someone trying to control the conversation. So I think that duality of leadership, where it's like you're being the leader, in terms of setting the tone for what this conversation can look like, but then they're being the leader in terms of taking the direction of where that conversation goes. That was another cool takeaway, or aha moment that I had as I was listening to you talk.
And then of course, customizing the treatment plan. I think you're so right Dielle, that there are so many people who are so obsessive over their framework and trying to like regurgitate word for word like, these are the exact features. This is exactly what that framework is. And it's like, honestly, I think most of the time when people hop on a call for a specific offer, especially one that is high ticket, they already on some level, if your marketing is good, if your content is good, should know what your framework is like it's not like it's the first time they've ever heard of it. I think your ability then to actually help them visualize how that framework applied, tangibly transforms their lives through three specific outcomes is way more powerful. And I totally see why that works for you. So that's kind of what I got out of it. Any other thoughts that come to mind from my reprocessing of what you shared?
Yes, I think leadership going back to leadership, people are often afraid to lead the sales call. So I say you can interrupt the client politely being like, Okay, actually, let's move in this direction, or Oh, my gosh, it's so helpful for me to know, can I follow up here and interrupt the client to lead them through that process, too. So I think that's really powerful. And yes, the power of the diagnostic I have always seen that people will miss things miss key objections that the client said early in the call, like one of my philosophies, as objections are always at the beginning of the call, not at the end.
So if a client is complaining about time and the beginning where they're explaining their problem, they're going to also say at the end if you don't catch it, hey, I don't know if I'm gonna have time to do your program. Right? And the objections are always at the beginning whenever someone says, oh my god, do I get the money objection or the husband objection or the time objection at the end? I always say, where did it show up in the beginning, where did allude to something of the nature of the lake and the beginning and you can catch that and address that in the beginning. At the end it's not too late at all whatsoever, but it's definitely not as powerful as if you caught it in the beginning.
Oh, that's so good. Being proactive about the hidden clues, right. I I always have believed that sales at the end of the day is just you putting on your detective hat and getting ultra curious like that really is all sales is and it seems like the way that you have broken this down into a very easy to follow up process kind of follows that mindset but in a practical way. So that is super, super helpful. I am curious, what do you find generally? is the length of these calls? Like, do you try to keep it within a certain timeframe, if someone's going off on this long tangent and you interrupt them, and they continually go on long tangents? Is there anything else you've done to kind of rope it in and keep this a concise conversation?
A few things, I believe in a whole hour. And that might sound excessive right to people. But I've ever been on a sales call where they're like, the coach or the service provider, whatever thing that they're conducting, and you're the person trying to buy, and they're like, glaring at the clock, looking at the clock being like, hey, sorry, I would love to keep talking. But I have another call. That's the worse in a sales conversation, right? To be back to back I remember I was trying to, like, get this VA agency. And I didn't know but the person only allotted me 20 minutes, I was like, 20 minutes, I have a big problem, like, I need more than 20 minutes to, you know, hand you $10,000 to find me a new VA like I need more than 20 minutes. So I always say if you end the call early, fantastic book, block out a whole hour, block out a whole hour.
And I say that your triage portion should be for 30 minutes, people are always shocked at that I said you should be getting enough information and data and problems and dreams from the clients for 30 full minutes to get to the root of everything and make sure all their objections are addressed before we even talk about the offer. So there are a yes, at the end of the sales call, not with any additional questions.
That is really interesting, okay. And this is why I love bringing guests on our show because you guys offer such diverse experiences in terms of what's worked well for you. Right. And this is another I think, great reminder for our listeners that hearing Dielle success, and I think there's so much you can borrow from what's worked well for her. But I also encourage you to really think through the context of your own business and not feel pressured to have to copy and paste every single thing you hear on this show, right? Because we could have someone on months from now who's like, I do sales calls in 10 minutes, and I never go over 10 minutes, right. And I don't think either one is wrong, but it's about you know, understanding your process and why it works for you. And based on how specific you get with a treatment plan. It makes sense to me why the triage would take 30 minutes, because you have to dig so deep to get to that, you know, level of specificity to pull in at a later time. So thank you for really walking us through that full context and explaining that timeframe with a little bit more detail.
You mentioned that these people who were on the call the 12 people, they all became clients. And then this is something I didn't mention yet, but all of them actually paid later that same day. So tell us about your 24 hour policy. How do you frame that? How do you enforce it? Why do you choose 24 hours as the timeframe?
Good question. Very good question. I say that at the end when I'm telling them the offer. And also I have would have to check but I'm pretty certain it's also on my call form being like if you say yes, you have 24 hours to enroll. I do that for a few different reasons from my systems mainly like I don't want to have pending yeses pending knows for my team, my team is like do we send them the welcome bouquet or not? Like we don't know, right. And so just run my operations and makes it a lot more cleaner. And it's also like my benchmark on did I do a good job on the sales call, they should be able to pay that same day, if you did your job on the sales call. If they have to wait and continue to sell themselves. After the sales call for days and days and days, you miss something you miss something, there was an objection that you didn't overcome. There was something that you miss if they have to continue to console and ask people and get advice and sell themselves after the sales call, you totally miss something.
So it's also just like my own personal benchmark, when if I nailed it or not, is enrolled in 24 hours how I frame it is so and I'm just super honest, I'm like, so we'll hold your spot for 24 hours. That's how long you have to pay the invoice and sign up for the contract. And then we'll release your spot so that my team and I have all the systems we need to move forward with our next cohort. And if you're doing one on one coaching, where you don't have that urgency, I always say hey, I have other sales calls booked with other people. I only have a limited amount of spots. If you want to move forward we just allow 24 hours to pay the invoice and submit the contract. Is that okay with you? And so I always frame it or end it with a question if they're like oh my gosh, I get a new credit card in the mail on Wednesday or whatever Can I Can you hold my spot then then I know I have Have a new deadline to write. And so you just want to make sure you get that information on when the client says they're going to pay. And then whether they don't or not depends on the quality of the sales call. Right?
I like how you use that as, like you said, a gauge for yourself a frame of reference for how effective that conversation was. And then to your point, I think always ending with a question to get affirmation or consent from the client is also so powerful. It's like those micro moments of conversion that are happening all throughout the call, I am wondering, has there ever been someone who, you know, missed the 24 hour window, and not because of a pre explain reason, like they were waiting on a card in the mail, but like, they just for whatever reason did not purchase within the 24 hours? And then let's say they came to you a few days later. And they were like, Okay, I'm ready now? Do you enforce the original 24 hour window? And you're like, sorry, you missed this opportunity? You'll have to wait till the next cohort to try again? Or is it like, you know, if there is a spot, we'll still let them in? Like, how do you go about actually enforcing that?
Totally depends on my system. So it hasn't happened in a really long time, because of my conversions. I've had 100% conversions with that policy enforced for the past three years. And so I'm kind of, yeah, I've had it for a really, really long time and some of my clients, and so it hasn't happened in a while. So I'm like, kind of racking my brain. If I were to answer this hypothetically, I would say depends. It literally depends on your systems, I would say be honest, like, if you have a spot, take them, right. But if you don't say sorry, hey, sorry, you know, I don't have any spots available right now. So I think it totally just depends on your systems and your availability.
That's fair. That's fair. I would love to wrap up your case study today deal with one last hot take, since you've given us some great ones throughout this conversation. And that is, I don't know if you've noticed this, but sometimes it feels like in the coaching industry in particular, that people almost love to, I don't know if brag is the right word, but they love to share. Oh, you know, I was able to sell out my coaching spots are my mastermind or my program with no sales calls, thank goodness, if you don't want to do sales calls, like you should, you know, work with me. And I would love to know your take on how you would react or respond to that. But also, why do you still find that sales calls for you are the most powerful conversion channel and you're going to stick behind them?
So good, such a great question. Number one, nothing will beat face to face. Nothing will beat face to face. We have some great marketing out there, right? We have amazing video, we can write emails, we can do captions, we can do stories, we can do DMs, nothing will be face to face sales calls. So that's number one fundamentally, like there's just so much research. And the example that I use all the time is even Amy Porterfield, who has the biggest ads budget anybody could have, who could have the most amount of emails, she has the manpower of this whole industry times 10 I will never forget, I really listened to her podcast. I think she's amazing. But I just she's rarely in my queue. And one episode, it was about her DCAA launch last year. And it was like the one thing that helped my conversion. So I didn't know what it was. Um, so I was just listening to my car. And she was like, my team and I did sales calls. I said, You've got to be kidding me. The digital email queen, she literally has an email course. Right? If Amy Porterfield is doing sales calls, let us all do sales calls. So I thought that point is interesting, number one.
Number two, I also think it's about volume, right. And I think it's about size of your audience. And so I work with a lot of coaches who have small audiences. So I only have 6000 followers on my Instagram, I have about 2000 email subscribers, I have a very small audience and a multimillion dollar business, because I do add those touch points in. So do I think if you have 100,000 followers, or 100,000 people on your email list, you need to do sales calls, because of just the volume gain. If your marketing is fantastic, you won't need to do sales calls. But I promise you, you would double your conversions if you did. And so I think like that's also a good part of the conversation as a lot of my community and I've kind of pride myself on being like home grown and ground up and grasp renewed. So I'm like, I've never been viral. I don't have a big audience. Like I really try to let my clients know that I'm just like them. And you can do this, even if you have a small community the way that I do.
And so I think like putting that into context, too, when we're talking about certain marketing strategies being like if you have a smaller audience will definitely increase your conversions. And then I think the third thing is just in the way that the coaching industry is going and just a service providing industry is going in the industry. I think too, people are looking for are you real? Are you a real person? Do I like match your energy? Do I match your vibe? Are you actually going to help me? I think gone are the days where people are not necessarily blindly buying programs. But they are more looking at programs like this seems nice, let me enroll, they're a little bit more hesitant now. They want to like dot their I's cross their T's now.
Like, I'm thinking about working with this one coach, and she's in the DMS with me. And I just I don't know what she's gonna say. But I just asked her like, Hey, can we hop on a sales call? Like everything you're saying sounds fantastic. I just want to make sure like, can I actually sit on a call, like a coaching call with you? For the next six months? The next 12 months? Can I stand the sound of your voice? Do I like your energy? Right, like, do you understand me? Do you see where I'm at, because I feel like the thing about sales causes, you can't really fraud, you can't lie on a sales call. People can see right through that people can see if you really can't help them, they can pick up on all of that on a sales call. Also they're, they're vulnerable. They're vulnerable for the client, they're vulnerable for us. And I think the consumer is requesting themm borderline demanding them now moving forward, because they've been burned in the past. And so I think if any time to work on your sales call skills is now is now and then the last thing I just want to name too, I often see people not want to do sales calls, simply because they don't close them.
It's an ego thing like a fear of rejection. Right?
Right. 100%, or, like, if I'm going to get on all these calls, and I only close half it's a waste of time. And so what I always say is what if you can close 100% Then it's never always of time. Like when I look on my calendar like yep, money's gonna be made today, right? Like, yep, I'm gonna sign a client today. Whereas I've had some clients, I was just talking to one of my clients, she's a money coach. And she said there was a time where she would book a sales call and her heart would break because she would believe that she wouldn't close it. So then of course, you're going to try to find all these different slick ways to not get on a sales call. But I'm like, What if every time you see a sales call, you know exactly how to convert it. That was my mission. When I was going to teach both of my programs, I said, if I'm teaching sales calls, I want to teach it where they can close a client at 100%. So we have hundreds and hundreds of testimonials of all of our clients closing and 100%, not 80. Not 90. I had a client say my conversion rate is 85%. I'm like that's low. That is a low convert 85% is low that 15% could be an extra couple $1,000 in your bank account that you miss, how can we get it to 100?
Okay, I know that this part wasn't recorded. But you mentioned that your close friends with Kirsten Roldan, who we recently had on the podcast, and something I love about both of you is you are so convicted in what you believe works best for you and your clients. And I love hearing that strong stance because I think so many people who teach on something can be really kind of wavering in a way and maybe like you said, are no longer practitioners of necessarily what they're teaching. But I love the strong conviction that you have for why you believe sales calls are powerful. And I think my takeaway from what you shared is that, is it always a necessity, depending on what your audience is or what you're selling? No, but can it only help if you try it? Yes. Right. And so like, I think that's kind of like the thing that people have to decide is like, do I need to do it? Do I want to do it, but can it do something for me that I currently don't have and what's stopping you from giving that a go? So anyways...
I just want to name for all the business coaches that might want to teach their clients sales calls, if they're not teaching them or if you're trying to ask your coach about sales calls. I just want to name this tool. One of the things that revolutionised sales call education was something that I call and something that I have on my program called the sales call clinic where my clients actually see me do a sales call. Teaching it in modules was one thing, but then I do several mock calls with my clients that changed everything and so I just want to name that too. If you're like, I have looked at the sales scripts I have gone through the courses actually seeing a sales called done a really good one that is high converting seeing one done with your own eyes and how it's maneuvered I think can also inspire people to do them in their business.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. I feel like we're so aligned in that way. Back when I had a coaching program. I actually also in this sales training module is more focused on like service providers, freelancers, not always necessarily coaches. But you know, same idea. And we included a real live sales call recording in there. And I remember that feedback of it's kind of like, I feel like to me the difference between learning, let's say business through business school and getting an MBA on theory, versus actually being in the real world of business and practicing the skill like you're so right, actually seeing someone witnessing it happen in front of you. Things click in your brain that I don't think just pure teaching ever can truly replicate. And so that's such a great point. Thank you for bringing that up deal. And again, thank you so much for sharing with such transparency. I really look forward to meeting you in person next year in DC and where can our listeners continue to connect with you after this conversation?
This was so fun, I could talk about sales calls forever. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it my Instagram @DielleCharon and then you can go to my website DielleCharon.com And you can learn about both of my programs there. And then I have a podcast, The Woman of Color Sales Show that you can tune into, and then also my YouTube channel which is Dielle Charon.
I love it. I have been on all three of your things. But I haven't checked out your YouTube channel yet so that is a good reminder for me to go subscribe right after this episode. Thank you again and for those of you listening all of details links mentioned will be below in the show notes, make sure you go check her out send her a DM today and say thank you for sharing this case study with us. Thanks Dielle.
Thank you!
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