I haven't checked the weather yet, but I know it is the perfect day to chat about adult Jewish literature. I'm Sheryl Stahl. Thanks for joining me here at Nice Jewish books. Hi, today it is my pleasure to welcome Fabrice Sapolsky to talk about the Last Jewish Daughter of Kaifeng, an Intertwined story.
Thank you very much for having me.
Yeah, I'm so happy. This comic book/ graphic novel is amazing in so many different ways that we will get into. But it seems like since this is not the first one that we need some backstory from a couple of different directions. So first, can you tell me about the intertwined universe.
So the intertwined universe is, so it's a series that originally was not designed to be a creator owned comic, like, I'm going to take you back to 2014. In 2014, I was living in France, my home country, I was still living there, I was on my way to getting my visa and stay in the United States. But I was still in France, and I and I met these group of Chinese entrepreneurs, they were in video games, they were looking for IPs, intellectual properties. And they were looking for ways to develop on the American market. By creating something that was kind of like Marvel Comics, they were like, totally amazed by what Marvel did, creating the comics and creating a studio and making movies. And they were like, we want to do the same in China. So we had a serious conversation. And they invited me to spend 10 days with them in Beijing, in February of 2015, where the idea was to develop a budget, develop, throw ideas, and lay down foundations for a new universe, which would have been of Chinese characters in the US, for the American market, but fully exploitable in China. So they recruited me to conduct this consulting mission. And so I went, and on the plane to, on the plane to Beijing, I got this idea for Intertwined, which at the time was called the Spirit of the Earth. And the Spirit of the Earth, which is the main character for the Intertwined serries, the spirit of the Earth was, it was based on Chinese cosmology where you have, you have earth, water, wood, fire, and metal, these five elements are the ones holding up the universe. And in my story, at the dawn of time, elements themselves choose a champion, which will defend their elements. These champions are called the spirits in that universe. And so the, we would follow the spirit of the Earth as he starts his career, and it was kind of like a coming of age story with this, this person, and I wanted him to be an immigrant. I wanted him to be the reluctant hero. I wanted him to have this kind of almost Peter Parker, Spider Man type of personality very resilient. And yeah, it was like kind of creating a Chinese Spider Man. And I was really into this thing. And as I was building that thing, and remember I was on it's a, it was a 12 hour plane a trip. So it was I had a long time to think about it. The thing that I wanted to do as a supporting character was trying to introduce a character that was even more of a reluctant hero than the hero itself. And this is where I thought of this silly idea of an Asian Yentl. And I'm like, huh, this is interesting. What if, what if the, the main character Juan meets this woman posing as a man who fled China to escape a forced marriage? And and so I started downloading that and then I pitched it to the Chinese company. They really liked it. But the thing that made every everything fizzle was that I told them that to run a comic book studio in the US, I would need $3 million and they really basically told me Oh, that's great. But we're never going to give that much money to a non Chinese. Okay, well, then everything that I thought of is mine. And when I came back, I simply couldn't let go of this concept. And then as I moved to the United States a few months later, I wouldn't say touring but I was in Chinatown. And, and I clicked, and I was like, okay, Chinatown. Juan Jin, the character of longhaul who is Leah and her male, secret identity, and everything started to fall into place. And, and but I wanted to do something that was kung fu related because I've always been a very much a kung fu fan. A Bruce Lee fan, a kung fu fan. And I met Frederick Pham Chuang, and Fred van twang who is the original artist for Intertwined is not just a wonderful comic book artist is also a martial artist. He he's from a long line of martial artists in his family. His father owned the dojo, his grandfather was a kung fu master. It's something that is his DNA. And so he's very accurate completely say like, I want to do this project with you. But I want the Kung Fu to be accurate. And I'm like, of course, this is what we want. We want accuracy in Kung Fu. So we brought it together. And this awesome sauce was like, taking life, like in front of us, like, we did a Kickstarter. We succeeded. We started working on it, it was hell to produce the first theory, because I was going to personal issues. He was going through personal issues, but we did it. And in 2016, we started publication, we went to a publisher called Dynamite Comics. First, they published the first edition of Intertwined but we were never happy with the way that presented our work the way they sold it, or rather, couldn't really understand how to sell it. So we had to wait five years until we could get our rights back. And when we got our rights back, I told Fred like look, I'm going to republish Intertwined within my company Fair Square Comics. And we're going to do it the way it was always intended to be. And I said, like, not only we're going to do that, but we're going to do more, because that's enough, we've waited long enough to have more Intertwined. This series is popular, we sold all editions combined over 4000 copies of the original Intertwined graphic novel, which is a lot for an independent publisher. And last year, when I told Fred that I wanted to do the spin off the last year, which daughter of Kaifenng, specifically based on Leah, he said, Well, I'm not sure I have it in me. So he helped me put together the project design Leah's costume and other characters costume and he oversaw the Kung Fu scenes in the book. But I worked with two other wonderful artists on last year with Jada and, and that kind of like, took me back a few years, to a few years ago when I was developing Intertwined, and I fell in love with them again. And right now Fred and I are preparing the second volume of Intertwined that should be out late 2024, early 2025, it's going to be it's going to be a big thing.
That's great. So you mentioned that Jews and Kaifeng, and I actually knew about this community, because I worked at Hebrew Union College for many years. And in their library in Cincinnati, they have a couple handfuls of documents, just amazing documents from that community, you know, that shows their their Hebrew and Chinese names side by side and prayer books and other things. So, but probably most people don't know about that community. So can you talk a little bit more about that?
Absolutely. Let's say that I was I became first aware of the Kaifeng community 30 years ago, in 1993, as I was researching because at the time, I was a group leader for a Jewish Scout movement in my youth years. And we we did a summer, not a summer camp, a winter camp, based on with with a theme that was the community, the Jewish community of Kaifeng. And so to prepare those activities for the kids, we went into a lot of research. And back in the day, I was like, I really want to do something else with that, but I don't know what and then I became this creator of comics and graphic novel. And I remember that, you know what I'm this is this is the medium this is the best way to do it is to to bring this community through fiction. And it kinda like historical fiction like, yes, there's supernatural elements. But everything that is related to the community is something that I, that I researched heavily in my interest in the community of Kaifeng and never faded over the years. So I did extensive research to get to what you saw in the graphic novel. But the most beautiful thing is that, since the book came out, it it allowed conversations like, of course, the Jewish community of Kaifeng is extinct. And even though you have kind of a renaissance, now you have conversions happening in China, let's not forget that we're talking about a country that still to this day doesn't recognize Judaism as a religion or a culture. So it's very difficult for them to do any kind of any kind of practice any kind of folklore, because it's, it's not official, it's not legal. But the thing that it created, that, to me is just as beautiful, is that it created a feeling among Asian Jews in America, who, for the first time felt seen. And I'm doing a lot of, of comic cons and shows all across the country and in Canada. And now every time there's a couple of Asian Jews, who come to the table, see it and said, That's me. Thank you.
That's wonderful.
We feel that is wonderful. And, you know, as Jewish people were kind of used, being a minority, and I come from a country where it was never forgotten, you know, we were always a minority. But in the US, this feeling for a lot of American Jews has been forgotten for a long time. And, and the fact that you have these communities within communities, these very diverse Jews, made people realize that we've always been like that we've always been diverse, we've always been inclusive. Because no matter who you are, if you have in your heart, that you belong to this community, then kol ha-kavod, [all the honor] welcome,
right. Absolutely. So let's get back to the story itself. And this, this volume. So can you tell us kind of where Leah is and what's going on?
So when, when last year was Daughter of Kaifeng starts, we are after the events of Intertwined. So, at the very tail end of the original Intertwined story, Leah is gifted with the powers of the Spirit of water that she inherits for from lady Tiah, who died in battle, and paid for her for crimes. And the end is open. The ending is open, Intertwined so you understand that she got this ability, but you haven't seen those devils. And so when we open, we're six, eight months later, so she knows who she is. She knows her abilities. And she is ready. She's She is now herself. She's like, looking like a woman. She she dropped the she's not in fear anymore. And those powers give her the feeling that she can defend herself instead of running. And so when when the new when the news story starts. The reason why she left China comes to Chinatown. And they're there to bring her back. Because it took them all this time to find her. But when they finally find her, they try to bring her back by force. she defends herself.
These are ... these are kind of the minions of the person she was supposed to marry.
Exactly, yes, absolutely. Who never accepted that. She fled. He has a huge ego and and so but but even the fact that she defeats those minions those goons, she realizes that she needs to face the music. She needs to look at her past and, and also, she has been separated from her family for a long time. And it's, it's really time three years have passed since she left China, it's really time that she fixes everything once and for all and face Yuk-Wong the drug lord, the crime lord, that is the person who wanted to marry her by force. So she goes back, and this is where the story begins. And I'm not going to say everything, of course, you would have to read it. But, but let's say that it triggers a lot of things, PTSD, memories, there's a lot of stuff about what being a Jew, the story takes place in 1972. So what it is to be a Jew under Mao Zedong. It's really something, you know. And again, I had to research a lot, because talking about China today is kind of easy. You go to China, you talk to Chinese people, you look around and see, but what about 1972? What would have been her state of mind? How are women treated in at that time?
It was a very closed society.
Absolutely. Where there was not a lot of communication whatsoever. So I discovered a ton. And of course, all the cities that are mothering that didn't exist, but you know, Shenzen, that did not exist. It was it was it was a terrible like place. That was not even a village so and in 25, 30 years, that built a gigantic city of like, millions of people. So it was before all that. And so it takes us to a time that has been lost. You know, that doesn't exist anymore.
One thing that I loved and you mentioned, this is the joining of the Chinese folklore and mythology and Jewish components.
Yes.
So she has this water spirit. But she sees it not just as this Chinese spirit, but as a gift from God. Yes, you know, in the in the Jewish context. And at one point when she's in a tough spot, she starts chanting Psalms.
Yeah, it was, it was very important to me. So we're talking about Jewish representation. This is something that we're talking all the time talking about all the time, in comics, in particular, because there's a lack of Jewish representation, which is incredible, like, this is an industry that, for 90% of it has been created by Jewish people. But the character, the group that's the least represented in comics are Jews, because historically, there was anti semitism fear. There was there was a lot of elements, who prevented the Jews from exposing their culture and their own comics. And then now, a lot of Jews have are integrated or passing. And, and it's not as important for a lot anymore, but I come from another country. My, my upbringing is different. And I always I will always, I always fought for my Judaism and to exist. And I'm not afraid to show it. So it was important for me that this character was not another secular Jew, especially when you come from a country where your faith is not recognized. You have to fight again, against everything to preserve your culture. So yeah, Leah is a modern Orthodox, the closest thing to what she is, is a modern Orthodox. And I wanted that to be a part of her personality. And so yes, she would like to one of the first scenes where you see Leah in the origin are intertwined. She's in the synagogue, she's in the Bialystock synagogue in New York, and she's praying in Hebrew. And and she then she goes, talk to the rabbi who kind of like adopted her when she came from China, the first thing that you do was to find a synagogue because there was no synagogue where she lived. And so that element, that component was very, very important for me as who she is, and there's a scene about page 20 of the of the last daughter book, where she's wearing she's wearing a costume that was the costume of the previous, spirit of water, and she decides consciously to change it to something that is more her And she has, she has a high, she has, she wears like this, this necklace with a high. And she's she she in her costume is more tsni'ut than the previous one
more modest.
Yes more humble. And she realizes that this is more her personality this is her, rather than being the other person who wore the mantle before her. And she allows herself as the story progresses, she allows us to, to be herself like, again, this is another coming of age story. I love writing coming of age stories. This is an another coming of age stories, because because she is becoming herself. She started this journey when we meet her for the first time in the original Intertwined. And when we see her in Last Jewish daughter of Kaifeng. And you see between the first page of the last page, you see her journey
yeah, there was one small beautiful scene, I think with her mother going to the market and buying pork.
Yeah.
And then going home and giving it to a Christian friend, because it's sort of part of the disguise of absolutely, you know, not wanting to show flaunt their Jewishness, so she, she buys the pork but
but she is giving it she's trading it for matzah. She's trying to get from matzah because she she doesn't have access to matzah, and her Christian friend has more connections, and can smuggle that from somewhere else. And and so that's the trade, which makes her undetectable. But at the end of the day, the important thing for her is to have Matra for Passover. And, and so it's, I thought it was an interesting scene to create. Because of course, that's what you would do, like, you know that that's the fascinating thing about Judaism is that there's the law, and as how much we can bend the law, just to survive, you know, or Judaism or our life to keep existing. And that was the idea there, if you're in danger, or, or if something like puts you in danger, because you're Jewish, you have to cloak yourself in order to keep being alive, because life is sacred.
I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about your artwork. And I know from well, actually, you had seven front pages. So I want you to talk about that seven cover images. But there's a long list of artists and people involved in this. And the artwork is really spectacular. And part of it is the action that you see in the fight scenes, you know that you just in this still image you really see the motion, but also because she's a water spirit, or has this water spirit, the transparency and the wetness and the way the water interacts with everything is just wonderfully done.
Thank you. So just a note about the covers. So this is very standard in our industry in the country to have variant covers to give people the choice to get the the art that speaks to most of them. So you also have collectors who will buy all the covers. It happens. So we didn't have seven we had 6, 6 covers, I personally drew cover "A" but it goes to cover "E" cover "F" sorry. So the i nteresting choice is who got to draw a cover for this book. So I was cover "A," Fred Pham Truong the original artists discovered "B," which made sense. Cover C and D were actually created for the previous Intertwined but never used from two wonderful artists. One is Canadian, Nick Bradshaw, and the other one is Asian French, Gerald Parral. And then you have Frank Uzan, who is an Israeli artist, and Will Torez who's a Puerto Rican American artist. So we have some kind of like, very committed and international group to create those those covers. And I really liked that. I mean, I really liked that. You can have all flavors in I mean, if I had the time in the budget that would have done more because I think that we need everyone on board. We need everyone to care about this. You know, and if you never care heard about the Jews or never cared about Kung Fu, you can still find something you like in intertwine the last year his daughter of Kaifeng through the art. And so for the interiors, I work with two artists. The first one is Faye Chen, who is an artist who lives in China. I think she lives in Beijing, she did the first 18 pages of the story. But then she hit kind of like hit a snag and she couldn't deliver anymore. She was very slow. And she had other activities. And, and so I had to recruit another artist whose name is Sang We Oh. Oh, Sang We, and hope is from Malaysia. He's a Malaysian artist, extremely gifted, but even him he got overwhelmed working on the series and tight deadline. And Will Torez helped me finish the book by inking some of the pages. I inked also myself a few pages along the way. And we'll inked all the other pages. It's it's it was really a collective work.
Okay, can you take a take a step back and talk about what those different steps are? What do you mean by inked?
So a page in a comic book? It's like Ford Model T. Back in the day. So the comic book process is there's division of labor. Because we're under tight deadlines, and because creators have many projects going on. There's division of labor. So you have often an artist who does the pencils. And artists who does the inks an artist who does the colors, an artist who does the lettering extra time to them. And so in this case, I had to, to organize production in a way that wouldn't slow us down. And so that's how you have multiple people working on the pages.
Were any of you in the same place? Or was this all done remotely?
Not at all? Not at all. Everything was done remotely!
Yeah, it just loved although the little details of showing the Jewishness she had a mezuzah on her door.
And she owns she owns a kosher Chinese restaurant in Chinatown. That's the first page.
She's teaching Juan how to cook kosher style.
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's... I think we mentioned the language that I love. It's, of course, mostly in English, but that there is a sprinkling of Hebrew and also Chinese. Amongst the Chinese characters.
Yes, yes. Yeah, it was important for me, because firstly, it keeps the diversity of the characters. You know, it's very hard when you're working in written form, to have characters speak with their own voice. So yes, you can write the characters a little differently. But if you add this extra layer of authenticity to the characters by having a few words, or sometimes just like, curse words, that brings a little more emotion and realness to the characters. So yes, there's some Hebrew, there's some there's some Cantonese, some Mandarin, and it was the same in the original Intertwined. And it's, it's the same in all the comics that that I create. So kinda like a house style if you want.
So if, if someone wanted to get a copy of this, since you mentioned that the print volumes have been sold out what is the best way?
Yes. So as of today, both Intertwined and Intertwined the last Jewish daughter of Kaifeng are sold out in stores, intertwine. Volume One is sold out everywhere. We sold the very last copies at New York Comic Con, very recently. We still have a few last Jewish daughter of Kaifeng that can be ordered on our website, fair square comics.com. Now, what's going to happen is that we are going to reprint both in one volume, we are going to have an omnibus edition that will come up in March of 2024. That will contain all the original intertwine story, plus the bonuses plus last year, Jewish daughter of Kaifeng plus the new story that I'm not talking yet about. But yeah, it's going to be it's going to be interesting and next year is going to be a very intertwined year because as I mentioned, we're also doing a volume two, so there will be the omnibus and there will be volume to later in the year early 2025. So I'm not going to rush it but I currently have written I have written about 50 pages of this second volume out of 148. So I'm about 1/3. Done with with the writing and, and Fred is busy on another project. So he's not available until the end of the year anyway. So we're going to really start working on intertwine for real early 2024. And hopefully you get us through the whole year.
Sounds great. And okay, I'll make the snarky comments anyway. It's like just doing some extra covers at the beginning and then you'll be halfway done.
Well, no, because because there won't be like it will be one cover for each time. So it's going to be a little different. That said, I wanted to say something about about this, because the reason why intertwine and intertwine the Last Jewish daughter, okay, Frank are very important to me, is that first it, as I said, it's the first book that I wrote when I came to America. So my experience as an immigrant, was extremely fresh. And I've been in the US for eight years now. So it was, it was a very important book for me. Because it was kind of like a chronicle of what I was living, even though not as dramatic as the events depicted in intertwine. The second thing is, it's important because Leah, is the first openly Jewish character that I write, it took me all this time, to actually have the courage to, to write a Jewish character. And I and I made a promise to myself, is that from now on, every book that I will create, will have a significant and original Jewish character in it. So I have two other projects that I'm working on right now. One is called No Future where you have an African American Jew, and the other one is called High from the sky. I know it's a little cryptic, but which has a character that is a metaphor for Fabrice Sapolsky is perhaps half Sephardi, half Ashkenazi, he's in his 50s. And he is he has a lot of insecurities. So it's a little bit of me. But it's not named Fabrice. But he people will really will will see me through this character.
That's wonderful that it sounds like it'll be a great project. But I do want to mention, you say have Ashkenazi have Sephardi and many people think that those are that sums up all the Jews. But as you know, you just said there are Chinese Jews. My last interview was about the Beta Israel, the Ethiopian Jews, who lived all for 1000s of years not knowing that there were white Jews, you know, the only Jews they knew were. were black. Yeah. Black. So. So yeah, there is amazing diversity within the Jewish community.
Absolutely. And, and speaking of that, there's the event that I am partnering with the Center for Jewish history to bring an event called Jewce that takes place November 12, in New York City, and I got to design all the style guide elements for the show. I did the logo, I'm doing the trophy. And I created a bunch of Jewish superhero characters, including a Beta Israel character actually. And I call them the Jewstice league
on a spell that
je w. S t i c e League, the Jewstice League. And there are seven characters that are as many different shades of Judaism as you can find. And I like to think that not only we're diverse, but we're too many people think, and including a lot of Jews thinking themselves as just a religion. This is not the case. We are an ethnicity. We are an ethno religion we have, we have so many components to who you are. Faith, language culture. Yeah, it's still it's just more than just a law and faith. We're, we're kind of unique on this. And we we should show our colors a little better. Um, I'm currently working on a an anthology. I partnered with a group called Be'chol Lashon and which is a nonprofit I fit organization showcasing diversity in Judaism. And we are working on this anthology called kowhai fan, which is going to be released fully in 2024. But we're previewing it at the Jewce event in November, this year where it's real stories from real Jew, from real Jews from every possible walk of life. We have a better Israel, we have a trans Jew, we have an Asian Jew in the preview, but we're going to have Persian we're going to have [...] we're going to have all these kinds of different Jews that will be represented in this anthology, because we need to show this this verity of colors is this multiple flavors of who we are. And there's a line in there's a line in Last Jewish Daughter we started that I really like is when Leah's mom, no Leah's dad said like, you don't really like you don't really look Jewish. He looks to Juan who's also a an Asian person, like and he said, like, you don't really look Jewish. And Leah replies like that. You shouldn't say something like that this is racist. And you know, that such thing doesn't exist. And it doesn't exist, because there's not one way of looking Jewish. There are millions of ways. And that's, that's the takeaway. That's my experience. I've met Jews from everywhere, whether it's in the United States and Israel, in Europe, everywhere, and it's just like so much pride to meet a Jewish person that is not like you. So interesting.
Yeah, I laughed when I read that line for for just that reason, you know, knowing there's not a look.
There's not a yes, no, but it was, to me, it was a funny scene, because you have two Asian people looking at each other. Like you don't look like Jewish. Which, which was funny. Yeah.
So is there anything you wanted to bring up that I haven't thought to ask you about?
Well, if you haven't taken your ... booked, your ticket for Jewce, now's the time Jewce.org. And the event is going
Can yoy spell that again,
juice, J E w C e.org. Juice stands for Jewish comics experience. Jewish comics experience, Nov. 12. It's in New York City. And everyone is welcome. There's an exhibit that already started at the Center for Jewish history, with my art in it, and with plenty of great stuff that is covering the relationship, beautiful relationship between Jews and comic books, through time and space.
That's also a remote component to if you're not in New York, right?
Absolutely, yes. If you're not in New York, you can't make it to New York on the day off. They have a virtual pass, where you can attend all the panels that will be 12 panels and six workshops. You can attend all the panels with your virtual pass. And honestly, it's going to be beautiful, and we're living troubled times where it's not easy being Jewish. And I think we need those stories. We need to tell our own stories. We need to show who we are. We need to do a better job of showing the world that we are these incredibly generous, open minded and tolerant people.
The last question I always ask and and I'm kind of starting to tear up actually, is if you were to use your book or just this platform for any call for tikkun olam for repairing the world. You know, this is one week after the Hamas massacre and attack on Israel. So what would you what would you like that call for action to me?
I mean, I'm an artist. I'm a writer, I'm an artist. I'm a creator. Of course. My emotions are all scrambled. They've been scrambled for a week. It's hard to think. And the first reaction is emotion, its gut. You react with your gut, then you react with your heart, then you react with your mind. I'm urging people to react with the mind. Like the the other party is human just like us. Not every one is a terrorist. Not everyone is a bad person. We need we need to be the bigger the bigger person, we need to take with our heads, we need to. And it's not just an Israel thing because every time Israel is targeted, Jews all around the world are suffering. There are hundreds of anti semitic acts that are witnessed all across the planet. I've seen things that I never thought I would see, in my entire lifetime demonstration with people's, like chanting gas, the Jews guessed it just it's just horrible. But we are resilient, we survived everything so far. We need to survive and we need to survive by also rising above and think with our head. Think with our heart, and not just with our guts, weapons are never going to solve any conflict. We need to talk.
Amen. Amen. If people want to contact you, how would they do so?
I'm very I'm very easy to find on Instagram at Fabrice Topolsky on Facebook at Fabrice Topolski or through fair square comics. There's a phone number there on the website, there's a phone number and it goes straight to me. If you want to text me, don't call me. I don't have time to call but people can text me they want precise information. I always try to answer everybody, even though it's difficult, but more more so I invite people to show up at Comic Cons and comic book festivals all across the country. I will be on the west coast where you are right now. The first weekend of December for Los Angeles Comic Con, where I will be a guest on be in Minneapolis in early November, there's Jewce in mid November. So I'm traveling all the time meeting people talking about this, I'm going to Canada I'm going to Europe. I'm going to all these places because I want people to discover this beautiful stories and not just my stories. My company fair square comics is the only family immigrant and minority owned comic company in America. And we are releasing tons of books I mean tons, about 20 a year, which for me is a ton. I mean, it probably weighed a ton or more. But like a lot of books that are mainly from underrepresented categories of creators and people with unique stories that need to be read and told.
Well, so Fabrice Sapolsky thank you so much for speaking with me about your amazing comic book, The Last Jewish daughter of Kaifeng an Intertwined story.
Thank you very much.
If you are interested in any of the books we discussed today, you can find them at your favorite ordinary brick or online bookstore or at your local library. Thanks to Die Yan Kee for use of their fraleigh which definitely makes me happy. This podcast is a project of the Association of Jewish libraries. And you can find more about it at WWW dot Jewish libraries.org/nice Jewish books. I would like to thank ajl and my podcast mentor Heidi Rabinowitz. Keep listening for the promo for her latest episode.
Hi, this is Emily bone Cohen, author of the book two tribes. I'll be joining you soon on the Book of Life podcast. I'd like to dedicate my episode to my grandmother, Mary Mary at a Colbert was born in 1923 and went to a choco Indian school and she loved me and that's carried me for my whole life.
The Book of Life is the sister podcast of nice Jewish books. I'm your host, Heidi Rabinowitz, and my podcast about Jewish kidlet. Join me to hear my November 2023 conversation with Emily bone Cohen about two tribes
