I should record on this computer shall we? Good? All right, you got a nice connection. Good picture.
Yeah, that's good thing where I am we have gigabit fiber Internet provided by the our local government. Nice. Yeah. So it's only like $50 a month.
Yes. Communism is good for something.
Oh, yeah.
Let me just I got some notes. I just want to bring them up here. Alright, so can you, I guess first of all, like, just kind of explain what your background is like related to the the outlet system.
Yeah. So before in direct relation to that I was in the Navy from 92 to 98. As electronics tech, and I worked on all sorts of things, not bond aircraft, but general electronics. I worked on radar, crypto, UHF, really kind of everything but I specialized mainly in like crypto, UHF and radar. And then after I'd got out some years later, then I got involved at Raytheon in Texas, and started working on the at FLIR program right away. The one difference with that, to me, what was new was the integration of optics as where everything else has been, you know, all electrical and electronic theory, and, you know, mechanical as well now, putting optics in air, which was actually really cool. So, I got to learn a lot. It was, I say, it was pretty cool experience, because I have some really cool technology even at the time. IT systems, you know, 20 years old now. But, you know, it's still pretty cool. And how it works, how it was developed, and then the integration and packaging of that to you know, what's ultimately going, you know, on to the aircraft.
All right. So, you so then you, you worked as like a test engineer on the Aplia.
Yes, and, yeah, yeah. Which is we're always called it, you know, so, like at Raytheon. They always called it at flare. And anytime I'd hear like outside of that would always be called like at FLIR and it doesn't make a difference. It's the same
thing, but I still try to call it the proper.
Well, that's the thing. You know, what's proper did? Navy did they call it at FLIR?
Yeah, I guess I'll just stick with whatever comes out of my mouth automatically, because I've been talking about it for years now. So it's gonna be at FLIR? I'm afraid.
That's fine with me. So
yeah, so I was thinking, like, you've seen my video, the one on the rotating glare theory. And I guess, like, you know, what I want to do is kind of maybe kind of go through that a bit. And then I'll just, first of all, just gonna give me what your overall impression is about the, the likelihood of this rotating, glare being a thing? And then how, as you understand my theory, okay.
So I have to pull up my comments to make sure I got like, the all the notes about that. But first of all, that that video that you did with the presentation, that Eric had everything you could put in? And I thought that was that was pretty wonderful. Oh, that, you know, got show, you know, how the sensor is looking with, with the various, you know, inputs and what you're seeing one thing that was missing there, and I don't know if some of the documentation didn't have it, but there is actually a YA in the gamble. Really? Yeah. And I didn't see that in that simulator. Now. It's only a few it's only a few degrees. But there is a young
is very interesting. And it's so so so we've got like the big, I mean, just get something that can demonstrate this for this is the long the long tube of the gimbal. So you can rotate around, you know, just rotation along rotating along as long axis. And then there's tilt. Yep. Would you call that like, well, this is roll on that would be roll. And then this pitching or just pitch? And then yeah, then you're
like what's, yeah, there's yeah, there's a slight yaw in the gimbal. And I said it's only it's only a few degrees or just kind of helps with stabilization and whatnot as well. So the model that that you that you got, did you develop that? Yeah, someone else? Okay. Well, great job. Yes, there is a YA in
there. And that changes everything if this is true.
Yeah. Now it's not it's not a lot like yeah, it's all weigh a couple degrees, but it does kind of, you know, help with some stabilization, you know, if you've got the aircraft kind of going through, you know, whatever is going on, but yes, there is a yaw in there and the yaw is in the gimbal inside the ball. Let me
just pull up some some images here. Know exactly what we're talking about. I'm going to share my screen. Yep. All right. Stop to. And I'm going to bring up my little collection of images.
Yeah, there were a couple of them, like some of the PDFs wouldn't pull up, but I was able to get some of them
are where they?
Yeah, well, yeah, they just actually, they wouldn't even decompress. I don't remember which ones because that was off
Dropbox. All right. Well, I can send them to you again, if you if you want to look at them. Let me know what didn't come through. But let me just find this real quick. Okay, at FLIR, sorry, I got like a bazillion links on my thing. So we should bring up some images of the app layer. So here is a little low resolution, but it'll do know, where would this this your be then?
Okay. So you see the ball portion where, you know, that's, and you can see the part where it does pitch.
Right. So this is the pitch here. Yes.
Yeah. So and even there, you can see the
roll. Yeah.
So where are you see the gold, that's that that's the primary mirror. So so that's, you know, part of the the gimbal. So when I say cut, I guess kind of the the inner workings of the inner part of the gimbal as we're that the outer structure part, you know, with the, the windscreen and all that, that would be the outer part, which is still you say, technically the gimbal. So as far as the internal gimbal. So that yaw is inside, as well. Yeah, so it's, it's kind of floating inside there. It's counterbalanced by other mayors. And then whenever they needed to add things like other weight, they'd use like tungsten weights in now, because Tungsten is nice and dense. And that way you can put you wouldn't have to have like a large mass of, you know, steel or whatever, you can have something nice compact tungsten, you know, place them in there. And that way, you can have nice counterbalances, so it's just really kind of floating steady inside there. But yeah, the yaw that's in there, it does only go a couple degrees.
So I mean, I wondering if that's kind of like what I'm talking about, with, you know, kind of this this slack thing? You know, talking about the the nerve, the little mirror, additional mirrors that move the beam internally, give it a couple of degrees of pitch, is that the same as this, this, you're, you're, you're talking this is kind of rotating just the primary mirror?
Yeah, it's it's, it's not rotating, per se, like, if we're looking at my hands. I wish I had something to better,
kind of, like, tilting. Like, so it would just be like, I need a mirror.
Yeah. Yeah. So if, if we're looking, you know, into this into, you know, to this speaker, and it may be kind of hard to discern, I'm actually maybe this it'd be better because there's a reference on here you can see so, you know, this be rolling the pitch. And then yeah, there's just a couple degrees of
VR. So yeah, I mean, that kind of sounds like you know, what, what I kind of describe as being the slack in the motion, kind of what you see in the in the patterns, let me let me up a pattern image here. So this is one of the patterns here. And it's a little hard to read exactly where it is, but just clear that clear or drive. Okay, so this is like the body and this is like the the bit of the roles. So you've got let's see, you got rotation axis. Now this is actually not the right right image I think you need a different one. And it's not a data second
alright, so it is it's kind of also a little hard to see but like there's a there's a roll axis and then there's gonna be like the pitch axis and then there's this I guess would be a your access, which is going to see you've got essentially three axes but one of them is internal.
Well for Are you? Yeah, yeah. So
wish you can tilt the head essentially. That the the sorry, the, the optical path?
Yeah. So the the yaw is the only one that's contained entirely internal. Yeah. So that is Yeah. And that's in the inner portion of the gimbal. There's no, it's no adjustment, Amir's that the whole physical gimbal is actually hitting inside.
So it's like tight tie this to like, the videos that we're looking at what year? Were you working on this when you saw this?
This is 2000. So yeah, I was there from 2006 to 2013.
Alright, so that's pretty good, I think because the 2014, I think was when the gimbal video was shot, as I remember what it was 16, but not too long after that.
Now tell me why do they call the gimbal video?
Is because the gimbal is what they're talking about. I think, obviously, that's what that's my theory.
Yeah. And I was like, yeah, that's just not a very good name for anyway. Yeah, there were a couple things I did notice in that in that video, and one is that this is not the at least I couldn't find like the raw file or anything kind of close to it. There was still like quite a bit of artifacting going on, right?
Yeah, let me bring up the actual the, the raw test file here. So we can look at that. So if I go to gimbal here, let's move this the way.
Okay, so probably one of the clear ones I seen. So
I can zoom in pretty well here. And you can see things down at the pixel level. single step through them. All right. So what does what do you what does this tell you?
Right now? So what I
see is them started beginning I think there's so right at the start is in white hot mode.
Yep. Nice. Black. Yeah. One thing one thing he did, which unfortunately, you know, limits us on information, you see that dcl TR at the bottom? Right? Yeah, Declutter. Yep. So unfortunately, that gets rid of a lot of information. And which is unfortunate for for you. But you know, for the pilot, it's good. It's obviously advantageous, because it just clears the screen of information, because you want to be able to like, just focus on the target. Now, that would happen right there at that, if you can go back a couple seconds. Right there. So you see how it gets off center. That's that to me that that was the Mikey, that there? This is definitely nothing wrong with the IR sensor. Okay. Because if there were if there was an issue with the pixels, yeah, it's all moving. Yes. They would be you know, if there were dead pixels or whatever. They they would always stay in the same position no matter what. Yeah. So. So if someone has been saying that that's, that's complete?
Yeah. I don't think anyone said that, like set the light fairly early on in the discussion, like saying it was like, a sense error. We I think everyone kind of agrees that this, what we're looking at here is a real object. The dispute is really is is this the actual shape of the object? Is it some kind of sausage shaped object? Or is the saucer shape? The shape of the glare? From the from the whatever it is the heat source the engines?
Yeah, this one's a little odd, because you've seen images of where, yeah, it's been focused in on a jet and you can actually see it pretty clear. So I'm kind of thinking that for one, maybe they're not focused in very well. So there is a focal length in there. And this may not be set, but unfortunately, they did like the Declutter. So you can't see the focus values which would be kind of like on the on the left side toward Yeah,
let me just go to the Flir One video real quick. And I don't want to do that. I can't use my own tool here. Video and then change the video to play one. So in FLIR ONE, we've got this focus thing here. And I was wondering, like, you know, this says focus aid. This is kind of like a different, completely different type of thing, but I want If you know like, you know what the numbers were what situations the different levels would be used in.
I really don't remember because this is not going on 10 years ago, but the thing is that there are different focal lengths that they can set that they got on there, they have a controller for like on their stick, they can adjust the focal length as well.
So you're saying the gimbal video then might be a little bit out of focus, which might accentuate the, the size of this the glare?
Yeah,
yeah. If it is a glare?
Yeah, if it if it is glare, now you asked about the halo around that. And so that's, that's actually part of a software feature that can be turned on. And that way it highlights what is hot and being tracked?
Do you remember what that was called? Or what the button would be labeled? Oh,
I'm gonna have to go through the, the documents, some more about that. But yeah, that they had something in there. And normally, when we were doing like a lot of the testing, especially when you're trying to get like, the contrast, and we'd always like kind of have that turned off. But then again, we would always have a very stark contrast, you know, to test with Where do you have, like, very clear lines, you know, for targets out in the field like this, you know, where, you know, there's going to be like, kind of a lot of gradients, and some stuff may be a little close. Yeah, you do want that greater depth separation in there to where you can, you know, see it a little better. So, that's what what that is. So that's, that's not an aura. Because also, if this were if this were an aura, you know, I could heat or right now you're on black hot? Well, it should be darker. It's lighter. Yeah. So that's not the case.
The theory is that it's some kind of, like, warping of space and time. Which I obviously,
I really don't think
I don't I don't think so either. But yeah, well, just telling you what people, you know, originally said it was, but I think most people can accept now that it's just, you know, a function of the camera or an artifact here, essentially, it's a funky, it's the camera that's doing it. It's not actually, it doesn't really mean anything.
Yeah, they actually just today, someone said it was certain that what it is it's a, it's an insect that is on the optics and, and I said this, this is going to be disproved, and then a bunch of different ways. For one
thing you pointed out that movement there is yet is really moving.
Yeah, and for anyone else who's gonna watch this, the reason I know that this is not an insect is for one, the, the E, OSU, the electro optical sensory unit is purged with nitrogen for one. And that helps keep everything dry, you know, with the change of temperature, and any moisture may build up on the optics. Second of all, is, it's, it's in the, you know, in the center not moving. And if, like, right now, you see in the top left, it's narrow. So this is it's, it's focused in, you know, pretty far to because that's the that's the most zoomed in field of view. Is that? Yeah, so if there was an insect on there, you wouldn't see like a small sharp, you know, image like this, you would see something incredibly blurry. Like, you know, what the heck, like someone smeared oil on your camera?
Yeah. I think that's obviously a theory that people just come up with, like some people said it was like bird poop or something like that on the on the windshield, but obviously not all of
it. Yes. And it's not that and then also, if it's if it's internal to the like, before the gimbal. You know, like on the electronic fold mirrors, will because it's right in the center, that's also in the middle of the path for the auto alignment. So you just see this image just spasming all over, because it has no idea where to find center. Yeah, do you know about like the auto alignment feature? No. Yeah, it's actually it's actually pretty clever. They use what is called a quad detector system. And I'm going to use gonna use this again, but it's it's different. So the quad detector is is essentially a a circle like this. That is split into four. So just think of four shapes, you know, from a pie and anyway throughout the optical path or laser diodes that That chute energy along the optical path. Well, its goal is to hit into the center of that. So there's, there's a couple there's one along the visible, visible path, and there's another along the IR path. And if it starts drifting, you know, into one quadrant more than the other. Yeah. Then it's it's, it's that information is put into this feedback loop, which tells those electronic fold mares to steer back in. That makes sense. Yeah, so if something is blocking that, yeah, it's just going to spaz out.
So let's talk about those electronic folding mirrors again, like, you know, in, in, in my theory, like, unit, we noticed that the, the, the amount that the object rotates, you know, this, this object, parent object here rotates, sorry, let me just share the screen again. So I can, so you can see it. Again, so the amount that this object rotates is the same as the, the EOS view, the forward part of the pod would have to rotate. It follows that same mathematical curve, but it kind of does it in steps. It's not, it's not smoothly following it. And the theory there is that it's rotating in steps. Because it doesn't need to continually rotate using the big role motor. So it's using something internal to, to do the tracking, until it gets too far away from where it needs to be. And then he needs to actually do a roll at that point. So when he's talking about the folds, mirrors, it could that be what's doing that, that fine tuning tracking, or would it be what you described as the your system?
Yeah, that, yeah, that it would be, it'd be a combination of really all the axes, the fold mirrors, those electronic ones, those are before the gimbal. So those would be between the sensors, either the IR camera, or the or the low light TV camera. And there's a, you know, electronic full mirror. And the only reason that that's there is is for stability, and for auto alignment as well. So remember that that old quad detector thing? So one of the ways that that it'll get that that beam to where he wants to be, is it's it's going to, like, adjust that fold mirror, you know, to get that beam from a laser diode to the quad Decker to get it pointing to the to the center. Okay, does that make sense? Yeah, I
think so. I think so. It's a little hard to visualize exactly what it is.
Yeah. One path? Yeah. The one image I saw is not really not quite what was in there. It was kind of a grainy color diagram of like a cutaway of like the EO Su. But, yeah, and unfortunately, I imagine you probably don't have images, you know of that. So I have like the internal of the OSU?
Not really, I mean, this is probably like the best thing. That's the way yeah, that's like a schematic.
Yeah, that that's, that's so. Yeah, I I think the only thing I can say that be, you know, kind of accurate about that is the fact that well, I'm guessing it's showing an IR and visible path.
Yeah, because it's demonstrating the common optical path for both IR and visible. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's really everything else. Yeah, looks completely different inside anyway, where that kind of kind of like that first big 90 degree bend on the left, which is kind of towards the center of the screen. The blue one. Right there. It's right there. Yeah. So that's about like, kind of where that will be one of those electronic fold mirrors would be okay. And, and so that's going to help
get mirror on there, I
think. Yeah. And it would just be, you know, instead of flat it'd be off at like a 45 ish. Yeah. And it just has three, three points that are magnetized on the back. When it's on air dries, it's kind of cool because that mirror is just, it's just flopping but when it's charged when it's just solid and, you know, whatever impulses it's getting on three different points. Uh, you know, it's it's telling it to you know pivot and one of these directions and it's just happening really fast. So it's pretty cool pretty it's it's kind of simple GET IN ingenious way of you know keeping everything aligned
so going through the this video here like one of the things that was was noticed is that at various points there is these little jumps you can see it can jump up and down as well as rotating and the jump appears to go just before the rotation
Yeah, and it can you roll over those bumps again, I'm actually looking at the clouds now to when when that's happening,
okay, let me get it let me just okay so
the
Yeah, okay, so yeah, it's it's moved so the whole image is moving
the whole image is moving at a very high that did a little bit of like motion tracking on the whole image and you can see that the clouds move at the same time as as the thing bump so it's the camera movement either the entire planes bumping or within the cameras moving on one of the mirrors is bumping what is what is you think that is
it again, that could have been anything that you said yeah, if that could have hit you know, a dense pocket of air you know, in the aircraft and you know, cause it to you know, take a you know, sudden change in direction
as someone suggested that you know, this is kind of like the alternative theory which I don't think it's that likely but I should point out though is that the the IR profile has changed in a way that was not visible to the video and yet the motion tracking detects this change so like he got hotter over here and less hot over here, but it just looks the same in this and then that makes the whole thing kind of bump huh there it would
have not really seen significant enough change because if you look at the tracking brackets, too, that would be another thing is that you know if they're staying you know, pretty similar, right?
Yeah. So the tracking brackets will follow it if it was that Yeah. That makes sense. This, if you know this bitly we can see at this point when it moves it's it's got these these interlaced the video is interlaced. Do you know much about the recording system was used in the cockpit to record this video? I
really don't know. Yeah, yeah, everything system. Yeah, it's Yeah, totally different system. But ironically, lately, I've been learning the F 18 and DCS. Oh, yeah. I don't know if you ever messed around with that.
A little bit. Yeah, it's quite comprehensive applet simulator in it as well.
Yeah, the F 18 is pretty hardcore. And they game. Yeah.
Yeah, I haven't I haven't really played it. But other people are kind of used to recreate various aspects of this because it you know, it's not exactly the same.
I just just, I just create a crater in the ground. I'm pretty I'm pretty new. I've only had it for like a month. So.
Yeah. Yeah. All right. So let's keep going through this. So
oh, here was another thing that if anyone wants to say this is an insect and this has to be done, this should be the obvious. And I made a comment about that. You know, still try to keep the load as like, okay, there's all these other things but also the third thing is I'm like, I don't know too many warm blooded insects. Yeah. That should be that should be the biggest
it's something it's something Yeah. Have you ever seen anything like this before this this like as a as a glare when you're looking at a heat source? I mean, you said like you think it would have to be a bit out of focus to have this this size of a glare? Glare
it's not it the reason I say it might be like kind of an out of out of focus on on the IR is that there's just really no real definition. And you're you're just seeing like kind of like almost a to d shape as we're if you've seen images of like when they're tracking jets. You could see like, you know, lines you can see like rivets You know, hundreds and you know, on the side of the plane, we don't have very
many pixels here. So it's no you wouldn't you wouldn't see that much anyway. But you were seeing, you know, a shape.
Yeah. And unfortunately, we don't know how far away it is either. Now.
Now that's another bone of contention there is like exactly how far away it is. But well,
we know, we know it's in. Narrow, so yeah, it's going to be it's going to be pretty far out as in miles away.
Do you? Do you remember the field of view? Like how many degrees? It was?
So why Yeah, wide? Yeah. Why it is a one to one I think. Medium was? And I think medium was too and I'm gonna say narrow was, it was at least four
or 404. To one vacation. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. He said it could be more I don't know, we get and the documentation I looked through as a day, it didn't really say it's okay. I don't remember what it is. But I believe that's what it was is wide field of view was one to one. And then it just kept stepping up. So it can actually be like a foreign aid. Say, I don't remember
what the wide field of view I think is still actually fairly fairly narrow. It's only like six degrees. So it's
Oh, you're saying the field of vision? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, relative to each other, they do double each time you, you go through, I think that you go from a wide to, to medium to medium two times to narrow to narrow two times. And each time it doubles.
Yeah. And those other ones those are, those are software, like when you're getting wide and then wide to or whatever or medium medium to. So those those whatever you would call like the TOS those are software, that as far as the physical optical zooms there, they're just three.
Now the tracking, like related to that, when it's tracking. And if you switch between one and two times zoom, does it always do the tracking on the one time zoom image?
Alright, say that again.
So like, you've got two images here, like what? Yeah, this is always in two times zoom. But in some of the videos, it switches between one times and two times. And, you know, we know that the tracking works by, you know, essentially looking at the pixels and like bracketing an area of contrast or something. Now, if it switches from one time zoom to two times zoom, does that change the tracking at all?
It does not. So like in this instance, like you see, it's two right now I kind of wish we'd see the one. But right now, so this is that's the software zoom
looking flare it actually you can see it change in oops, in the flare video. Like here's one and there's
two. There's two. Yeah, and as you see, like, it's it's a super rapid, yeah, nothing changes. Yeah. When, when. So, when you scroll through the, like field of view, and let's say you're going from, you know, medium one to medium to and then you go again, and then it goes like to narrow. You're gonna see the whole screen flash. And the reason it does is because there's another fold mirror that's coming up.
Now you actually see an interesting thing here in the FLIR, one video. All right, let's see right here. You see, like, we're in let's see, we're in narrow where items, and then it goes. You see the the, the object was off to the side, and it goes into
widefield? Way up. Yeah, it's either. Yeah. It's hard to tell if that's an M or W. But that's why have you okay, but that's, that's a big reason why you'd see that thing. Go off. So if anyone's going, Oh, that's proof is on that or disprove something? No, all that's all that's happening is you're seeing the physical mirrors moving.
Yeah, yeah, that's where I was. That's what I was suggesting. Some people think this is actually it's actually moving very rapidly. This is we're looking at FLIR ONE. Let's look at the the end of FLIR ONE. If you've looked at this before, but this is this one I haven't. This is kind of a famous movement like at the end, as see we're in medium field of view. Then I think switches to narrow one times. So here we narrow one times. So right right there. He's going back a bit. So going forward from here. It switches at this point to narrow. So it's going from medium to narrow. And I suppose Yes, I still in Yeah, now it's in narrow, the display I noticed lags a little bit behind the actual physical change the zoom.
So So those like that that indicator of what field of view you're in. So it still takes like, you know, like about half a second for those those mirrors to engage in disengage. So you can hit the switch and you see the action, but it's not going to register until the mirror is complete their actual it's kind of locked in.
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So switching here. And I think it's actually, yeah, it's gone all the way to it. And then. So now now we're in narrow. Now, so here, I don't know how familiar you are with the tracking thing. But this is kind of an interesting little little thing here. So we switched to narrow one times, and the, the object is a little bit a little bit outside of the tracking area. And then the the bars widen. And then the next frame, the bars stay pretty much the same the objects keeps going. And then after that is now outside the tracking area. And there that the tracking error is getting smaller. For some reason, it's kind of zooming in and thinking it's found something whilst at that point the the object moves over here, and now they switch to two times zoom. So it can have like doubled in size. And then it just kind of like boop, boop, boop, off to the side. You can kind of tell what might be happening in there because my my theory is like, you know, just simply like the guy sacking, the video is switching between the zoom levels. And each time it switches between the zoom levels, he has to regain the lock on the object, like here, the the object moved off to the side, it's trying to do it. And for some reason, it just fails to do it, because it just ends up outside on this frame. hasn't quite finished the transition between the two settings.
Yeah, and you can see where the brackets are, and then they leave, they still also have to have to also actually press something as well to like, you know, get it to you know, reacquire the target. And that's when you would see, like the bars, you know, like, like, like right now it's, it's thinking it has it. Alright, which it does have it there. Yeah. And it's barely got it there. And
then it looks like it should have it. But then the object itself looks a little blurry here because it's I don't know, it's like maybe between modes or something because you see it's bright here. Then on the next frame is like that. And then the next Islam is bright again and has never she never noticed that before. Dima and this one. The and well, maybe not. So it loses he loses lock. But
yeah, and also living see so it's uh, I guess it's like eight degree. eight and five degrees. Yeah, so also we don't know, man. Yeah. Hey, are we at the limits? So let me see. I think. Yeah, the top there. The one on the left. That's the That's pitch edge. Yeah,
that's five degrees up. And then degrees left. I mean, that's, I mean, that seems like it should be well within the range of
motion. Yeah, it should be but and Yeah, and again, yeah, the system's not perfect, but at least you get to actually see a little more on this screen. Just wondering like it's very blurry, but
this is his zoom. It's gonna even blurry at this this 99.9 range. Do you know what that means?
So that's supposed to like that. That Quadra is supposed to be like, where the sensor is above ground. That's, that's the information that will be displayed over there. Yeah, well, it's a 9.9 range.
So this was the range to the target.
Yeah, if if that's something that's been now the thing is that would have to be fed from like radar. Okay. So if it's not getting anything and maybe that's what it's seeing and that that's kind of like you know, some things they'll just be like all nines, if it's, you know, doesn't register anything. Yeah. Yeah, so you should be seeing coordinates there otherwise.
And if in the go fast video, which is yet another of the videos, this is an interesting one is this the tic tac, this is the go fast B, which is apparently was filmed at the same time in the same flight as the gimbal video, but this one actually has a range in it. So in this one, like you can look at the whole video, like at the start there just kind of moving around and they're trying to capture it and that they eventually box it and then it starts tracking. And after it starts tracking, then this number shows up the range, which appears to be the distance to the target. Yeah. And we've also got a VC here, velocity closing velocity velocity closing.
actually surprised with the size of it, and how fast is moving that that had grabbed it like that? That's pretty good.
Yeah. Suppose they would have to get it looks like the right direction. Yep. It's quite a bit of Yeah. Yeah, then got it there. And then it just tracks it. So the theory with this one is that it's not actually moving that fast. It's, it's, it's moving slower? Because it's actually kind of halfway between the ocean and the plane, if this number is correct. Which, which some people dispute but if you if you do the math, based on this number it, it ends up being halfway between the plane and the water. Let's see, I got a few questions here that was we talked about the shape of the glare? Well, if you were to give us a your professional opinion, based on what you know about the system, do you think that the rotating glare, hypothesis or theory is the more likely one does it seem to you like this is actually a real saucer shaped object you're looking at just this is a simple like, you know, which do you think is more likely?
Yeah, now, as far as a, I'd say a glare to for something to produce a consistent glare because the jet itself is is moving, it's closing, if I remember, right, it's closing in plus, it's you know, banking and changing direction. So for something to keep, like a consistent glare on something, it would either have to be, you know, a flat object that is, you know, always pointed towards the sensor, which would do you know, that can do that. And then set. The other would be, if it is a rounded object, and maybe something was, you know, reflected off of that, well, it's gonna have to be a lot of energy because you know, a convex object is going to, you know, disperse, you know, energy. Well, you know, like crazy,
what we mean by a glare here isn't a reflection of the object though. It's, it's the heat signature of the engine. So it would be like the, the engine of the jet slightly, so there's looking straight out of the camera, and you get a big glare like that. And I think you're kind of thinking and it was like, you know, reflecting light off it.
Yeah. And, and to me, it's
a see, I'll show you another video just show you what I'm talking about. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that's, I think I get what you're saying. Like, if it's, this is looking directly behind whatever the you know, the proportion is,
yeah. Like I said, there and
in doing that, if it's if it's washing out every day, and it doesn't then then yeah, you can't discern the shape of the craft.
Yeah, so I can show you another example. Lehre reference says this video. Okay, this video is a video of a small jet. i This this jet here. It's a little little trainer jet I think. And it produces a heat signature, which I'm describing as a glare because it's like, you know, like the glare of a camera. It's a lot bigger than the actual object itself. You know, heat signature you normally think as being something that that looks like the shape of what you're looking at, like he did the plane itself or the, you know, the cone or the exhaust. And this is actually kind of a a A dark blob. And it kind of looks in a way it looks a bit like the gimbal. It's gone. It's kind of like, you know, diffraction spikes coming out of it. And it's kind of a bit longer in one direction than the other.
What is is this is like a lantern.
I think this I don't, I don't know, actually, I don't think it's a lantern, I think it's a kind of a more of a civilian, like flare type of video, camera. Maybe like, you know, Star Sapphire type thing. That was not sure which system it is. See eyes look at the this is another version of the same one. He doesn't tell you what it is. But it's so you know, it's a thermal camera, obviously, you're looking at a plane, you're able to switch between visible TV mode and infrared mode. And it's black heart. And these are supposedly to scale. So this is what you can actually just see the wings of the wings. This is going to be just an example of what I'm talking about what it would be. And you mentioned earlier, it being a bit out of focus. And the guy I took this Dave Fauci was a FLIR technician who works in kind of a civilian, well, I guess, civilian slash military company. But he said he had to mess with the focus a little bit. And it was interesting that you said when you looked at the gimbal video, that you thought that for it to do that, then the focus would actually have to be perhaps off a little bit. But we can't see that because the decluttered the screen, so we see is the same, same type of thing in oops, just move that up here. Zoom in, bring the other one up.
Now. One thing that that is odd, you know, with this, is that looking at the they didn't, actually that second one, the one you have labeled the stab? Can we see the full frame? Is there anything else that's ever in the image besides that? Yeah, I mean, the other one that stab?
Yeah, yeah, the stab one was the stabilized version of this image. Okay, bring this one up. So you can see the full thing. So yes, I think it's it's starting out as a study only White House and so it's just a black card.
Okay, go to before that where you can see still see the trees and stuff.
Okay. In white hot here. That's so like, I guess this is in focus, if that's the type of thing you're looking at the trees or not. This is like a power line, I think. Yeah. See, that's zooms Yeah, sorry. Essays right at the start here has a couple of power poles, which are all in focus. So the focus is at least over there
but not incredibly, I mean, like when he switches to visible then the the plane is visible. slightly blurry.
Yeah, but still, you know, pretty good. But you said this is one of the civilian ones too. So.
Some other ones that he has, like, they're kind of different. Let's see. Alright, let me show you this one. This is kind of a useful bit of reference. So this is basically this says it's either an FAA D or an F 15. And you're seeing a tail on it first, and you see a bank away. Now, this is gonna be interesting for a couple of reasons, I think. Yeah, obviously. First of all, we're looking at the tailpipe of an objection we're only seeing the glare and it pretty much covers the whole plane, which is you know, what I'm what we're suggesting is is going on in the gimbal video.
Yeah, it's just weird in that in that instead of like, more of a blob like this, the other one is, is kind of more defined and stays kind of defend
within you know, this, this stab one here, which then has the more blob like, yeah, thing but it's just not rotating because it doesn't it doesn't have the same type of gimbal mounted camera system.
It just won't look at that F 15 This one here. Yeah. Okay.
At least I'll play it from the start again, you can tell me a bit you want to look at
by the way, that is an F 15. Okay. There's you need to know that's an F.
Yeah, that's good to know. So I think what's interesting here is how the contrast changes. As we go through like it starts out yeah, all we see is the exhaust, because it's trying to like balance the scene. And then the plane kind of comes in as a kind of a Gray Ghost type thing. And then as the engine becomes less and less significant, because it's pointing away from you, at some point, like, You're right here, you can still see the hotbeds of the engine. But when you get to here that kind of hidden away like, you know, the
Yeah, now it's like on a turn. Yeah, now it's now it's like kind of turning everything black
on, everything gets a lot darker as the contrast gets adjusted. So I'm wondering if that might. Yeah, if you if you look at the gimbal video, is there anything about the contrast in the scene that makes it yeah, maybe it's, it's overexposing? Yeah, this was taken at night.
I know, which doesn't help because it would have been nice to at least get, you know, see what the camera got, as well. But one thing I also didn't like, too, is this video is short, it's did they just cut it off? I can understand where it where to start would be like, Oh, crap, there's something there. Finally turn on the recording. But why did it just stop after like, 30 seconds?
Yeah, I was talking to somebody about that today. And they were saying, like, you know, who made this decision? Because this is something that had to be kind of approved for public release? Because it's something that might be classified. depending on what's actually going on
here. Which, which, if that's the case, I totally understand it. No, yeah. No, obviously, it's, you know,
in the beginning, but the, to me the you know, I get, you know, if it's like in the heat of the moment, like, oh, shit, there it is, then, you know, then you turn it on. So it's, you know, starting at late, because,
so, do they have to switch on the recording, though, because I thought it was full time.
Now they have to switch it on. Okay. At least that's how it is. And the F 18. C, okay, C and D.
And so I talked about this yesterday, and someone was telling me that this shouldn't be on all the time. So they should actually have like, a full hour video, but maybe not.
Yeah, and maybe they do like on the on the ease and abs, but on the C and D there's a it's like looking at the front, it's like kinda in the lower left. And that's where the like the video switches?
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just wondering, like, with the pilot sets, like the gain on something like that, so whether it'd be like a default level that they would use?
Well, unfortunately, that information is not on here too. So there is an AGC automatic gain control as well. But you can also set gain manually.
Yeah. Yeah, it's worrying like if it was automatic would and you were pointing at the back of a jet engine would it actually look like this?
Yeah, so that's that's what I would be doing and you know, for one maybe you didn't know and that kind of freaked out like what the hell is because remember that there was audio saying hey, there's let's like there's a fleet of them that said something to that effect. Like you know, there's a there's like a bunch of them or whatever so you know, they're they're flying and they're they have no idea what the hell's going on. And he's probably not on his mind right now other than like, hey, I need to intercept this
like, you mentioned like the you know, the your earlier and the so we've got like something like I do in the in the simulation is like I've got all the different angles of things and then I work out from that where the the pod head should be pointing at. Do you know what if there's a specific mounting angle of the flight say the roll axis of the of the outflow system like relative to the main axis of the jet, like you know, when you can have when your wheels down on the carrier, the angle of the jet would be zero, I guess. The pitch angle and would the part itself also be a zero?
Yes, it were that Yeah, so a default would be that and so stowed Fortunately, I wish I had more my train stay awake fuel is that it's going to be stowed up like as you can see the logo here. So Majan the aircraft is when guests pointed down this way, so it's stowed like this. But then when it's deployed, it kind of comes down to like 180 degrees, because it's actually showed 180. Because that gimbal is is actually stowed away upside down and curled in. And that's that, you know, to help protect it, but then also there there's a kind of like a miniature blackbody. And that's what it's what it will use to calibrate itself. Alright, right, if you add that information in there or not.
Yeah, now the blackbody. Right. Yeah, I think you mentioned that before, but it's not something I was familiar with.
Yeah. And that's, that's something that that I could do calibration with. Now, in the, let's say, the heat of the moment of what they're doing, and they didn't think about it, because that's, that's another thing I'm wondering is, there was, you know, was this thing, you know, did they do their, you know, quick, cow Berg? Did they do their calibration, you know, before they deployed it? And I'm kind of thinking they didn't, because I think the image would probably be a little sharper.
And interesting, that is interesting. So does that mean that some of the angles might be off? Like the the pitch angles?
No, not the angles, but just the image quality? Okay. And that I'm thinking, I'm thinking it should be pretty sharp. Because just from like, you know, what I'd seen, you know, at Raytheon. This, this thing is pretty sensitive, and pretty accurate. Like, yeah, there are times you guys given tours to visitors that would come in, like from colleges or, you know, other countries and stuff. And then for like, demonstrations, I could have like an EOC off the side of a test station. And, you know, put my hand in front of it and have a look at the screen you actually see like the veins in my arms. And, and then I'd have my hand on a on a book. And that are you know, no no pad. And then you know, pointed up to the unit. And you see my handprint on that but then going through the pages. And you can see you know the handprint still through all the pages that it's going through. So it's it's a really sensitive unit and can do a lot of detail. And I'm kind of thinking that the calibration just wasn't done on this because I would also think the clouds would be the sharper as well.
Yeah, it's nothing with the clouds. There's quite a lot of contrast in the clouds.
Yeah, which Yeah, it's I mean, that's that's good. And that just shows how you know sensitive it is. I don't know if you know how far down the detector is chilled.
Now
that one I don't know if I'm at liberty to say but let's just say really? Yes, like, like liquid something called
Liquid nitrogen I would imagine. Yeah, so I hear like, that's kind of an interesting point though. The contrast within the clouds kind of indicates the kind of the dynamic range of the image you know, it's kind of going from you know, this whitish light gray here to a dark gray over here then we've got black here, but that's I guess relatively close to these like if you can see detail in the clouds that's kind of it kind of explains in a way where you can't see detail in in this this blob here why the blob is you know where the glare is so big if it's set to expose for the clouds near the scene of the clouds it's not actually shrinking down that that engine and the way that we saw in that that's that other video the FAA seen video
Yeah, so
here we see like, I see it's like I can't really see much of the the other things
Yeah, I don't know.
I just want to read to see if like if that suggested anything to you. The fact that you can see this this contrast within the clouds like they seem to the clouds themselves. Let me know what's actually going on here. This is these are just clouds, they're about the same temperature. They've been lit by the moon, or what? Yeah,
well, and again, that just shows how sensitive the thing is. So that's kind of the bad thing about this, and that the dynamic range that the heat that, that it can detect is, is pretty broad. And that's what makes it so special and better than, like, kind of any civilian stuff. So like you can see right there, you know, on the clouds is where maybe like, civilian one, you just may see like, you know, just one uniform gray blob, but there's, you're seeing variances, you know, in there, you know, it could be like, you knows the tops of them are? Are, you know, white. So it could mean that, hey, the tops of them are a little cooler, you know, maybe half a degree, you know, cooler, then you know, what's below that? Looking at
the sky here, I guess, because it's the sky above the clouds. So you expect that to be a lot cooler than the clouds?
Yeah, and again, we don't know what altitude there. So I guess it's kind of hard to say, because, yeah, it could be 20,000. Yeah. But the point I was trying to trying to make with all that is that you have this big dynamic range for heat that you can detect, but you're working within grayscale to display it. And within that, you're also trying to do some auto correction to, you know, help display some stuff in the middle. And so it's like, you're trying to be like, Okay, I want to focus, you know, on here, and, you know, give the range to this thing. But also still don't want to ignore everything else that's around here. So there's kind of like some software trickery that has to go on to make that possible.
Do you know, like, when it takes in image, like a single frame, it's taking like a 14 bit image, I think like a 14 bit grayscale image, which covers the full dynamic range. And what I'm wondering is, like, other hardware adjustments to the sensor that changed the game, or is it all done in software? Like there's just like, one raw image? And then it's all software? Or is the electrical ways in which the game can be changed?
So there, there there is. Everywhere, let's Well, I know for the focal that's actually there is actually a physical focal adjustment, the gain believes actually all all electric. Okay. Yeah, it was it was, it was all like, so if they said it, it can detect, you know, quite a range. But it has to take, you know, whatever information it's given, and then, now you kind of have to decide, hey, do I need to bring the game, you know, up or down, and they're just doing that, electrically? Well, and then also, from here, from what you from all you see, like, of course, in the middle, you know, that is software.
Right? This this image enhancement type thing here, the aura is wondering like, the, the black hot on white hot modes, the non inverses of each other, like, you can't take a black hot image and flip it one to one and get the the image the other image. Like if you take this image,
yeah, can you? Yeah, go. Okay, yeah, if you can get it to where the frames go. That's what they should be there is that they should be the inverses of each other.
Because I mean, pretty much not only if I can do tweak it in here, now I can't. But the, if you stick them into Photoshop, and you're, you're flipping them, okay? Because you do that very, very quickly. Okay, so grab this one.
And again, let's say you still may also be the software saying hey, what's going to be visually the best for violet? So instead of just looking at a black screen during the day, which would not be good.
See that one? So
yeah, so to me that says is a pretty good inverse because now remember, the tops of the clouds were they were white and the other one you see there, they're dark now.
Yeah, let me I can let me just do that again. Just grab that one. So got to the same boat, bring them into Photoshop.
Well, you're better at Photoshop than me. It takes me forever to do something in that.
I'm just gonna use it to invert the images.
Yeah, and see if they get close. Yeah. So
here's his one in Photoshop and I bring the other one in. As drop it on top, there's another layer. And if I take this one, and invert it, it turns out like that. Right now the perfect inversion. But that's yeah. So this is, this is the black heart. This is inverted black heart. And this is white heart. So they're very different in terms of
show me the natural black. Ah, that's natural. Blackheart. Yeah, so one thing to notice on there, and you can tell that they have to do something, you know, in software and look at the text. Is, which remains white.
Right? Yeah. That's the the onscreen display is always wide.
Yep. And so that's why I said it kind of has to do some software trickery to where it's, it's an it's an inverse, but it's not, let's say a true inverse like that towards, you know, go to your screen.
Yeah. Because if you have this, you wouldn't be able to see the text because everything will be white.
Yep. And also all that white.
You know why? I guess why they do it? The size? Yeah. So it's really, you know, it's a very different thing. Like, you can see just how. So this is why this is the black black cart. This is inverted black cart. In the White House, it's very different. It's like, you'd have to change the brightness on this one quite a bit to get it to look anything like I mean, you can't because the information is lost at this point. But it's interesting, just how differently are we taught. Alright, so I'm going to check like someone asked me some questions. So you didn't know about the distance measuring like radar and stuff like that? Because there'll be a different system?
Yeah, that'd be that would be a different one. And so unless that information is being passed to this display, this has no way to do that. Unless, you know, it's using its its laser to target it. Alright. But it's not doing that.
Yeah. Do you notice any difference like between like air to air mode, or air to ground mode or anything like that, like, in the way it tracks things
in the way it
it's only in software that it's actually different. It but it functions exactly the same, the air to air mode is actually believe it or not simpler. And I think because I think it's because in air to air, there is like, whatever is always being trapped in the air, the case in point, this is always going to be a sharp contrast to whatever else is rounded. As far as the heat signature. As far as on the ground. That's not so much you don't have this, you know, you know, hot jet turbine. And, and plus Now you're also surrounded by you know, Earth as well. So it has to do things different. So I know in Arabic ground mode, they also have what is called scene tracking as well.
So and I just dragging the ground.
Yes. Again, round. Yeah, it's just saying, hey, I want to, you know, track a point on the ground, because it's really hard to try to discern a target on here. So once you take this information and try to stay on this, while my aircraft moves around, and then we can kind of, you know, discuss, you know, what needs to be done over here, what we're looking at,
you know, this this little dot here, the the heading Q. Are you familiar with how that's calculated? where it should be?
That is, well, that's information that's just brought in from the from the aircraft All right. So you're gonna see that roll around and then that should get to zero when it reaches top dead center.
Yet. It doesn't.
It's it seems like zero right there.
Yeah, but like it's dead. Center here at three right so it's a little bit different it you know, we think we worked out what it was like that it's it's, I can't remember exactly what it is now but it's kind of like the angle in the plane of the wings rather than the angle in the plane of the ground.
Yeah, yeah, I don't think it's an angle indicator. I think it's more like a heading indicator, right? Yeah. And so do you know that now the let's say the USU and the and the the AirPlay now they they meet up at that point. But you know, if you're still in a bank, then yeah, you're gonna be viewing you know, differently.
Yeah. All right. Let's see anything else
you got anything else to suggest later? That could help resolve this at all?
Well, I the only thing I can add is is really not helpful in just that. This is to me bizarre. Okay, it's a it's bizarre and that kind of like you know what you're showing with the blobs earlier? Well, they're blobs but they're amorphous. Like they're constantly changing this stays quite uniform.
I mean, it's it does change a bit like if you watch list
like kind of like almost like a fluid thing like like almost like a flame on a torch moving around, right, this stays flickering. Yeah, this stays largely uniform now
fats there and then you know, it's quite different.
Yeah, and I would think you elongate it especially you know, given the hot you know, nature of it that we are looking at the rear and propulsion of something Yeah, just cannot tell what that something is.
Yeah, and that's that's kind of like what I'm trying to do with the see the situation recreation thing here which is country where is everything gimbal like this isn't gimbal
module over and grab grab a drink
back so this like, kind of real quick was my attempt at recreating the the possible scenario, like kind of viewed from above this is the flight path of the jet itself, you can see the app player down there, turn the jet on as well yet it flies along that path. And then it's looking along these these lines of sight towards something, ignore those curly things. And then over here, there is another jet that's flying along this line of path you're going to find it over here somewhere.
Where did you get this information from?
By essentially derived from the reef reloaded is derived from the information in the video like it's just matching things like the roll angle and the heading angle and the pitch angle and then just from you can recreate the trajectory of the Jets because you know how fast it's going on what altitude it's going and what its bank angles are.
And I just read with the other jet
with the other jet what that is, is it is it we know that it has to traverse these lines of sight so he has to go from here to here the other line and so it's basically calculating using various different methods. What's the optimal way of doing that? So in this instance I'm setting constant SB so I'm saying like you know, this is a jet flying at a constant airspeed of 340 knots, what would it look like? So, I can adjust that speed and we get different different paths for the the other jet, the theoretical other jet, and we can change the distance that is out as well and that gives us different paths.
Now when you say the other jet are you talking wing man
and other Jetty making it could theoretically be a wing man but it would in this instance it's is the target essentially.
Oh okay.
In theory what we are looking at Here's another jet. And we're looking at its its tailpipe exhaust from this jet. And then it's creating this image. So here I do a recreation, which is just a view from this jet of the other jet. And I've stuck a glare on it and have the role match the role of the the app player pod. And I think I see I can turn that off, turn off the glare. So we turn off the glare, then there's a theoretical plane behind it, which is turns out to be quite small in this particular scenario, but you can change let's say, the, the initial heading, the initial distance set to 30. So if I bring it closer, it gets like here super big. But you know, I've set it to a certain distance, which seems to make sense, but it ends up being quite quite a small jet, though it's a small distant jet, giving a very hot heat signature with quite a large glare in this particular scenario, and then we've got things like, here's the the tail angle of the jet, which is the angle between the what's the the, basically the axis of the camera and the the distant jet, so it has to remain fairly small for it to stay hot. So you got to try to find a scenario in which you get a fairly small tail angle, like less than 20 degrees or so. And then the other ones are just demonstrating that it has a nice stable altitude, which is what you'd expect from another jet flying along. And the apparent size would have to match the apparent size of the glare. But that doesn't actually doesn't actually match. Because it's a glare. It's the apparent size isn't a straight function of distance. Anyway, this is a much more complicated, like set of parameters and everything. But you know, trying to get something that actually makes sense, because people have different ideas, like some people think that it's much closer, like in this, this scenario here. The other idea is that it's following this path, this little green path here, which ends up being this kind of weird, horizontal and then going up in the air path. And you see, I put in a little flying saucer here instead of a glare, because people think it's like an actual saucer shaped craft. And they think it's doing the same type of some kind of weird motion. And a they say that this is more likely because it sounds more like what was reported at the time, but it was only 10 nautical miles away. And this is the suppose it fleets of other objects that they talk about in the video. But this is super complicated stuff that we didn't really have time to get into right now. Yeah, to show you that it's stuff that I've been been working on and probably will continue.
I think it's wonderful job modeling. This, it's quite fantastic. Which is cool, because you could use it to analyze a lot of different things. It's just unfortunate, let's say, this video in particular, there just isn't a lot of information. The, my, my analysis is that this is not an anomaly within the sensor. And that it is a thing. Right, I just don't know, which I
agree with agree, that is the thing. The question is, is this the shape of the thing?
Yeah, and that's, that's going to be too hard to, to really tell because let's say, you know, when I was, you know, testing, you know, these things in production, we weren't testing them against, you know, the exhaustive aircraft, you know, we're testing these, you know, against your, like, you know, find, you know, defined bars of lines and things like that, and, you know, focusing them in and, you know, basically simulating distances and, you know, making sure that, you know, it's reading the correct temperature, you know, if things are different, you know, focal lengths and stuff. So, this is something quite different. The, the one thing that I can relate to that probably more than let's say some of the others that were, you know, on the same program is that I do have a big fascination with fixed wing aircraft, and they've always had a fascination with with jets as well. So, this here, yet, I mean, it still could, you know, be A, you know, a jet. And the one thing that I'd say lends credibility to that, of course, is that, yeah, you've got, you know, this this big, you know, heat plume that we're that we're seeing. So
alright, well, I guess you haven't ruled it out the part of the possibilities. So that's one thing.
No. And and yeah, that's what I'm hoping is, you know, you know, maybe you know, there's a little more clarity about, you know, what? Not so much about what it is about more than what it isn't.
Yeah. Yeah. Now I'd like to learn more, I'd like to see more video, I'd like to see more videos and compare it with. I mean, that's the big issue that we have is that we don't have very much. I don't suppose you have a secret stash of Evapolar videos know how to drive somewhere?
No, I don't. But it's like, you know, I just happened to kind of stumble across that, that thing I see. And I'm like, Okay, I'll check it out. And I think the reason it popped up is because, you know, I've been doing the F 18. You know, a lot lately within the last month, so it said, Okay, watch this. Because, you know, it's from, you know, an F 18 pilot, and I was like, and I was like, Okay, well, my way I, you know, I know this system, you know, quite well and then kind of started reading to the comments are like, Ooh, this is kind of going all over the place. So all right here, this is what it you know, is not. And that's how it all started. Now, it's like Jesus, like, I wasn't
yet. Yeah. And I know like, Yeah, I agree with you about it not being a bug in it not being like, you know, stuck pixels and everything. And it might be a jet, but I guess so.
Someone suggested a duck. Yeah, that is one hell of a
duck. Thunderfoot Yeah, suggested that I think which seems a little silly like thinking it was a bird. You know, other things might be birds, but this one definitely. He's, he's, he's not
good. So that's a Phoenix because everything is on fire. Yeah. Or it's
a dragon perhaps. Yeah. I gotta, I gotta go. So like, thank you very much for doing this. It's very interesting. So is it okay, if I if I share this with other people?
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I was gonna ask the same as well be like, Okay, I'll you know, I'll make a quick video about this, because people were asking you about it. Yeah. And the comments, and I was like, No, yeah, I watched your video. And I was like, I think we could have a good conversation. Because it seems like we have a good for one a light kind of technical mindset for one. Right. But that, you know, it also, you know, curiosity of, you know, the subject as well. And
well, both older man,
he's knocking on 50 this year. So,
while you're young man that got you beat?
Oh, probably not probably not too far, though.
I'm 55.
Yeah, it's not too far. So I'm five, six years off. But this is, to me, it's like kind of a nice impetus, because you don't, there's a there's still, as much as I'd like. I like to say I have kind of a scientific mindset and approach to things. I do like a fascination with the unknown. And I think a lot of people share that. But with that, in that, I don't want to say that, you know, automatically going into something is where like, this is automatically disproved before I even see it, or it is automatically the thing before I see it. Yeah, I would rather gather the evidence and make a a informed decision, like as I kind of like to take a scientific approach to things because, hey, that's how that's how we discover things.
And he and I still have hope that we can figure out what's going on here.
Yeah, me too. Because it's, it's odd. And one of the things that I did want to point out, is that I think I did make mention in that, in the comments was that I really don't see a reason of why pilots would suddenly conjure up stories in that, you know, aren't you know, credible? Now, especially when, you know, others have seen this and that now are, you know, they're also with other pilots that have seen the same thing, that they had their WIZO with them, or they have, you know, wing men with them, that are seeing some of the same things. And then there's some of these other instances where these things are going on as well. So I agree. They've usually been you know, quite, you know, writable and I'd say kind of pragmatic and how they carry themselves through these. Do they have all the information though? I seen some kind of makes them Oh in wouldn't say snap judgments, but maybe leaning towards something that's like well may want to look into something a little further but that's kind of the one thing that's in common though, which is a little odd. Now. You know, most people say, hey, Jesus, you know, prove aliens Of course it's 100% Aliens, but no, yeah, it's, uh, hey, you know what? That that the chance is never zero.
Let's keep it on the list. Yeah, it's
maybe point 0001 But until you can 100% rule that out. And you know, it's not that but there are many other things that are going on in this on this planet with all these different countries, even private things going on as well. So you have to keep the realm of possibility open for a lot of things and we're only going to find out that the more and better information that we get
indeed, well thank you very much for this very interesting conversation. I got to go and have my dinner and and my wife is knocking at the door. Yeah, well,
thank you, Meg. I do appreciate if you have any more questions that I can help with. Let me know and if I think of anything, I'll definitely say your way
I'm just gonna share this with you the other people are interested I don't think I won't put it on on my my YouTube channel is that like a public video? I'll just do it as an unlisted and just share it with the various people who are introduced type of thing, which is a very small and unique group of people.
Yeah, yeah. And if you want to do it later to where you do want to make it more available your dad feel free to do that.
Well, thank you very much. I'm going to stop there.
