Exploring Creativity & Critical Thinking with Escape Rooms

12:56PM May 13, 2024

Speakers:

Shannon Tipton

Kathy

Erica

Bruce

Leslie

Rachel

Laiza

Gayle

Kelsey

Cassie

Keywords:

game

escape

rachel

learning

chat

question

love

learn

part

reward

room

narrative

rebels

play

puzzles

cassie

challenge

shannon

pull

building

doesn't get the recordings on

gotta hit, right kind of have our backups for our backups, right, Kathy?

Your notes thing that Cassie is doing, I gotta figure out how to do that. And helps

if I could figure out how to spell properly when I tell you that's 111 Part of it.

This is a no judgment zone.

That's right. It is a no judgment zone for sure. And speaking of no judgement zone, if you want to turn on your video, that's great. If you don't, that's also okay, but we don't care. We don't care. If you are in your basement, in your closet, wearing your jammies, it really doesn't matter. You know, so we do not judge you. Also if you are new. That's how I've got my I've got my slippers on to down here, along with all of my dogs. So if this is your first time to a learning rebels Coffee Chat, please feel feel free to let us know in the chat itself. We can give you the nice warm welcome that you deserve. And thank you to everyone who has been here before. Thank you for joining us again. Yay. It's always good to see a lot of familiar faces and names in the chat today.

So you can let us know where where you might be right where are you sitting? Right now? It's a glorious day in the Chicagoland area. Rochester, Columbus. Hello Columbus. I need to do this just in case here. Rachel, I'm going to make your co host just in case. You get the power. She's got the power. She's using Cathy's using the Prezi video for the zoom. That's how she's getting all those words up there. Oh, longtime fan. First time. Caller. Thank you, Christine. Thank you, Christine. All right. Well, welcome everybody to Oh, like we got Eddie is joining us to today. Okay, the superstars coming into the room. Nice. Hello. Hello. Hello from the UK. Bruce. Good to see you again. Heather. Always good to see you, Jason. Thank you, Betty. We got another superstar in the room. How about that? Thanks, Betty for joining me today or us? Or Rachel? Thank you for joining. Oh my gosh, I'm Rachel just pulls them in. I'm like fanboy fanboying over here. I know. I know it. All right. So what we are here to talk about today. Today we are talking about escape rooms. But we're not just talking about them today, we're actually going to experience I know experience and escape room. And Rachel, Rachel Arpan is joining us. And she is the creator of these Escape Rooms versus she's also known for creating escape rooms for leadership development. She has done that. She's done all sorts of wonderful things. And I have to admit, sometimes you know, you've come in to these coffee chats or even not really to learn something nice, but sometimes you come into the coffee chat. So you have a guest speaker, and they show up. And that's great because it's for free. And they're taking time out of their day. And they put something small, you know, for us to to learn something. But Rachel has totally blown through the walls. Rachel put together three different games for us today. And I'm really appreciative of all of the effort that she's put together for us. So, Rachel, I'm going to turn it over to you so you can properly introduce yourself to the group before we start our games. Thank

you so much. I am so excited to be here. Learning revels is one of my favorite things. And I just I'm fangirling over getting to be here with you all. So this makes me so happy. Thank you, Shannon. And it's great to meet you all. So I'm Dr. Rachel urban. I work at The Ohio State University Medical Center specifically in the James Cancer Hospital my day job learning development consultant where I get to build online learning but we do live action video shoots animated videos are starting to get into VR and AR I'm so excited I get to do a whole lot of fun things to help support the staff at the Cancer Hospital. So that's by day by night I moonlight as an l&d consultant, as we all have our little side gigs, right? I have a business called led learning. So it's leadership experience in design and get to do a lot of fun things with that. Escape Rooms really are, what I love, my friends will say I'm obsessed, but in a good way about escape games, and kacian. But I'm always dragging them out. Whenever we're at a conference together, like we're going to do an escape game together, right? And they're like, Okay, so makes me happy. I studied the use of escape games to deliver leadership training. And so I built the leadership escape game. And then I studied using Kirkpatrick satisfaction, people loved it, they enjoyed the experience of doing leadership training in that kind of digital experience. Better, you're right, there is a thin line between obsessed and dedicated, and I skateboard on that rail every day. For the study, I also was able to measure learning acquisition, we did a pretest, and a post test. And so people learned after completing the escape game, and then there were some hints at retention, like 30 days out to people hang on to it. And he did. And also got to see behavior change in interviews. So I love being able to come back to the l&d community with data. And also with just design experience, so that if you're interested in exploring how to do escape games, for learning purposes, we can nerd out about that all day long. I love that. So I'm curious about your all experience. So I'm gonna put a link in the chat. Let me copy it over here real quick. This is a question it's gonna pop out to a different tool. And this can ask you to come up with a name, you can put any nickname alias, it doesn't matter what you put in there. But what it will do is, ask, Have you played in the skip game before? And if so, how many games have you played? And I'm just really curious what our level of experiences out here with this and I'm going to pop out here too, and fill mine out.

You want live and virtual, like if they went to an escape room somewhere,

any kind of escape game counts, because there's so many different forms now. And then when you hit submit, we should be able to see live results popping up on the right hand side. Let's see how it goes. All right, we've got so far. A few folks that have said Not yet. We've got a few folks in the six to 910 Plus, oh, we've got a wide range of folks go ahead and keep if you haven't filled it out yet. While you're filling that out. I'm curious too. I'm going to pop another question in here, it's going to take you through the same steps in a new window. Um, for those of you that have played an escape game, what were some of the themes or the narratives that you played? Like? Was it a bank heist, a museum heist, a casino, a lab, anything like that? So the second one is more of an open ended question. And I'd love to see what you what kinds of escape games you've played. And I'm gonna pull this up too, so I can take a look. Once you all hit submit, you should be able to

see results on the right hand side. Let's see. I'm going to pop back over to our first question.

So we've had about 38 for 38% of folks that haven't played yet. Well, after today, you'll be able to make that one because you will have played an escape game after today. I'm excited to give that to you. And a pretty good range of folks that have done one through 10 Plus, I think I'm somewhere in the like high 60 range of games that I've played, which with my enthusiast crew is really low. But I'm working on it. My spreadsheet needs to be updated. Alright, I'm gonna come over here to the second question we've got over there were some space themes. St. Patrick's Day podcast escape game Betty. That was a fun one. I really enjoyed doing that with you. It was it episode um, if you ask Betty. You want to check that out from last March. Let's see. What do we have Titanic museum train office. Old creepy houses I don't know how I would do with an old creepy house when did that together grow? I know. I don't do well with scary

with either. I don't do scary well at all. No.

I'm one of those people. One holiday Dr. Asylum murder mystery. Very nice. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for sharing that with me. It's neat to know where you all are coming from with Escape. So one thing that I will put out there is I, because I'm coming at it from a I've done so many of these if there's something that I say that's like, Rachel, what the heck is that? Please put it in the chat and ask. I like to operate out of rule 38. If you have a question, ask it. And we can go from there with it. I climbed a rainbow in the St. Patty's Day One. Yes, Kathy, I remember that was so much fun. All right, here's what I'm thinking for today. So we are just at about a quarter after the hour, here's what I'd love to do, I want to give you all a chance to play, because I could talk for days and hours about learning escape games, and just go on and on about them. But I'd love for you to chance to experience a learning escape game, there's not not a better tool for figuring out how you feel about it than that, after we play, we're going to take a little bit of time to debrief what you've learned, because that's an important part of a learning escape game is a debrief that happens afterwards. And then I want to take you at a very high level overview of how I did it. So I'll show you behind the curtain, I'll show you the framework that I use for building escape games. And then with whatever time we have, will be able to demo it. One thing that I definitely want to ask is if you're able to stick around for the whole time, at the end, I have a question that I'd like to ask you all about of for your journey in learning how to build learning escape games, what would be most helpful for you? What kind of resources what would you expect in an experience if you're going to a conference session on it? Because as me and the folks that build escape game sessions are trying to help our learning development professionals, we'd love to know, from you all what would be helpful. So that's at the end. And my LinkedIn will also be at the end, because I'd love to nerd out with you all. So all right, there's our roadmap for a little bit, you're ready to play. I'm seeing some smiles and seeing some head nods. All right. So this is how it's going to work. I'm going to share my screen real quick, just to kind of give some logistics. Let's see, share my screen, screen two. And then let me pop up. Here we go. That's my daughter in the screen. My baby doll. Here we go. Alright, so here is the instructions for the game, you all are learning rebels and the rebels have been scattered in the Zooniverse, we're all going to be sent out into breakout rooms of about three to five people in each group. And you're going to have to solve puzzles to get yourself back into the coffee chat. So you'll work together to solve them and find your way back to the learning rebels Coffee Chat camp. Alright. When you get out into your breakout rooms, we're going to give you one of three games. So different groups are going to get to experience different things. But don't worry, we'll give you the link. So you can play them again, later, we just don't have time in the full hour for you to get to do all three. So you'll get one of the games that you can play. And at the end, you'll be able to pop back into the coffee chat, we'll say congratulations, you found everything you need to return to the coffee chat, main Zoom Room area, you ever get stuck or need help, you can always reach out to Shannon and I and we'll we'll we will help you out a few things that I want to share, you're going to be using learning rebels.com. To help you solve the puzzles, you need no other information than learning wearables.com. If you ever get stuck, just go back to the homepage and continue from there for the learning for the puzzles. I recommend that when you're in your breakouts, maybe one person could share their screen, so that you all are looking at the same thing. But everyone can access the game, everyone can access the website. However, it works for your group to solve the game together. But I wanted to give that little tip upfront. It will ask you to create a team. And kind of like how with these first two questions, you had to put in a a nickname or an alias, it will ask you to create a team name. Don't spend a lot of time on it. But have fun. This is your team for the next 15 minutes. And I do have hints that are built in. So if you ever get stuck, there's a hidden button on the right side of your mini game. And it'll start you off very generic, hey, look at this page. And this is where you can find things. And it'll get gradually and gradually more specific until it gives you the answer. So I don't want anyone to get stuck and left behind. So should you meet them. They are there. And then if after that, if you're still stuck, please reach out. We'll be happy to help. But yeah, so that's how we're going to do the games thing. I'm going to leave this up real quick. While Shannon is working on doing setting up the breakout rooms and getting people if you have any questions about how we're going to play the game Whoo. Please go ahead and ask

what you can into your breakout rooms I'll pop in, and I'll give you the link to the game that you're assigned to play. So don't don't feel like when you get into the room, oh my god, what am I supposed to do? I'll be there. And I'll drop a link in for you. All right. Any questions right now before we start sending you guys all off? And, you know, yeah, you, you do have a time limit. So if you the time limit is seven to 10 minutes. And if you are done with your game before that timeframe is up, come on back into the main room. And individually, I'll give you a link to another game that you can play while we wait for other people to join us at the end of that time. So if you guys are super smart, and super together and super collaborative. We'll see how it goes.

All right, learning rebels.

All right, let's see if everybody's ready. No questions. You guys everyday give me a thumbs up. Give me some kind of reaction. There we go. All right. Okay, everybody off you go and have some fun

I'm gonna stop my share. Hopefully that's not gonna mess anything up.

I don't think so. There we go. I'm gonna move some people around

right

I gotta move

right and I'll stay out here with you.

Okay, and I've got to move up. There we go. Okay. We had a couple that only had one or two. All right, so let me get their room one.

Name Team

All right, everybody go? Yes. That's a chatter. There you go. Do you got it?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Excellent. Okay, I will be back. Let me go hit the other rooms

that's different when you're doing it in front of the person that created the

game. Right.

I just know how hard it is. She's She's sitting there trying not to tell me the

I know, tell you the answers. Do that. Like go there. All right. Welcome back, everyone. Welcome back. Hopefully you had some success, I realized that you had a limited amount of time to play those games. But I hope you had a little bit of fun while you were doing it. And the winners of winners. There's just you know, bragging rights. Slap yourself on the back was the group with Cassie, Betty and Heather. So yay. Lena, already? Yes. Forget the winds with the video off. I'm so sorry. Yes. You guys rocked. All right. So for debriefing. Rachel, do you want to take it over? Oh, yeah. See? What's that first thing.

So there's a couple things that I'd love to so the first thing is whenever you're doing a learning escape game, the game is fun, and the design is important. But the debrief is really what the data shows is the critical part of doing a learning escape game. Can you make sure that through the experience that people have had, are they walking away with it? So in the chat if you wouldn't mind typing? What were some of the things that you learned about learning rebels from this game?

And actually, if anyone wants to raise their hand and share out loud too, we can do that. What were some things that you learned about learning rebels,

frustrating? The game or learning rebels have both. But yeah, you know, I

say both a little bit. We kept coming back, when we were trying to search for the answers, we kept coming back to the one part of the page or organization, we were never able to actually go to the other sections of the web page.

Oh, interesting. Like the webpage wouldn't let you go where the game wouldn't let you go.

The game we kept coming back to the same location, big assuming if the goal of the this activity was to kind of learn all the content. In learning rebels, we were only sticking to one part the organization, which is we were coming in as a, hey, we want to engage learning rebels and pay you money to do things and then that was fine. But we never got to the for you of ours coming in as a an individual saying, hey, I want to learn about coffee chats. I want to do this. Oh,

okay. Yeah. And I appreciate that level of investigation. Although I think some of the games are only focused on just that one page for your organization. I think.

Um, yeah. So the way the game was broken up is game one focused on the for your organization portion of the website, mini game two is for your team, mini game three was free, you. So make sure that you still get the link for the other ones, so you can play him

free so that it was successful in making us focus on that one section.

Yeah, every room did have a different game. So yeah, I'm seeing so what this is one of the important things is being able to take a step back and say, here's, here's what I learned. Here's what my experience was in this. I felt like I wanted to learn more about other things. Ooh, peeking curiosity. Okay, that's good. And so being able to build that as part of the game, it can make it frustrating when you're thinking I should be able to do this now. But it's just that you can't do it yet. The number of video games that I've played where I'm like, that looks suspicious, and I know I need to do something with that. But I can't yet because I haven't gotten to that level of the game yet. kind of mindset. So some fantastic debriefing of some of the things that you've learned in here and you guys can see it all in the chat. I'm curious how did the puzzles help you do that? As opposed to just looking at the website? What did the puzzles do for you to engage you in that learning? You can type or you can speak out loud?

Well, we've got a codebreaker beast. Go ahead. Leslie.

I'm Negative Nelly here. It frustrated the heck out of me.

Sure. What about frustrated you?

Yeah, I don't know. I think it's a competition I have within myself. So not being able to get it was Yeah, I was like, ah, yeah, so that credit a barrier.

Hmm, no, that's a, that's important to be able to acknowledge to because I will say escape games aren't for everyone. And sometimes it's that struggle. You know, learning can be hard and difficult sometimes. And sometimes that struggle if we push through it, we get a little bit more of a reward on the back end of it as well. But we didn't have a whole lot of time to explore that right now. So absolutely understand sometimes that frustration especially if you're not like the one in control of your navigation or trying to do it with other folks when you want to do it at your speed. So no, that's that's valid.

I saw a hand is it laser laser? Laser laser? Laser?

Yeah, no problem. I just missed a little bit of the purpose and the goal I think it would be different if we had a little bit of story are a little bit I miss the storytelling parts make it more because now I'm really competitive. So I like finding but I'm Yeah, I think if it's a story or you're going somewhere or I don't know, something like that would make it more engaging. Absolutely.

Theme and narrative is a really important part of building a good learning escape game and being able to have that in there. The narrative for this game it was loose right in the sense of the the learning rebels are scattered. You have all been sent away from the coffee chat and you have to find your way back. It was a pretty loose narrative for sure. But being able to tie that in stronger that continuity and consistency of a narrative is an important part Liza, for sure. There may

be a little bit like too big for the timeframe. If it was like 30 minutes or an hour, then it might be a struggle trying to get back and then you should have like not being able to get back maybe

you're not allowed back you can come back into the room. Like a lot are, you are locked out? That's really funny. I see your hand.

In doing these, I'm like, I don't find that I'm good at them. I don't feel like I'm good at them. But what I have learned in forcing myself to get through that, because Leslie, I can relate to what you said, too. I just get like, immediately frustrated, because I want perfection instantly. And so one of the things that I've learned in working with Rachel and being in these teams with her is that I just have to kind of allow myself to not know what the heck I'm doing, and to really lean in on the team members and let them make sense of stuff and just live in the chaos and absorb it and let it be and then look around me and go, Oh, wait a second. Okay, I can do that. That one little piece. And I don't have to know the whole big picture, which is pretty tough. For me as a facilitator, as an entrepreneur. You know, it's a place that really asks me to step out of what is normal for me day to day. And so that's actually why I seek it out. And why I follow Rachel so much, because she's always making me learn stuff.

I really appreciate that perspective. Cassie, thank you so much for sharing that. I see Erica has a hand up. And then I'm gonna wrap up with some how I did it stuff.

I think what Escape Rooms remind me on is time bound situations, and that when there, there's a time constraint and everything that we seem to do, right, and our projects or our has a time constraint. I think that when I was listening to like, Cassie, I could definitely relate to the first part of what she was saying. It's because of the time bound constraint that I feel like there's an increased need to get it right and done as quickly as possible. And then where I was, I lost, being able to be in sync with what you're saying. Kathy was like, that sounds all very lovely. And I would love to have the time to do that. But once that time clock is ticking. It's like, Oh, crap, man, we got to get it right. And done.

Definitely lessons there, for sure.

Yeah, I think that's one of the things too, that I love about using escape games for these kinds of conversations, because there's many different directions that the learning can go. One can be the content themselves, like the learning rebels website. One of them can be your delegation, your leadership, your communication skills, there's that Festiva and then there's this self reflection of how like, what am I good at? What am I not good at? Betty was joking around about like, made me do math. And I remember my very first escape game, I was in a room, and I was trying to do math on the board. And math under pressure doesn't work. And there was someone in the room that just came up to me and was like bad math, bad math. And that's all they got. And I'm like, okay, like, I learned, I don't do math, well, under pressure, it was very frustrating to get to that point. But it's helpful to know, if we need numbers fast, don't come to me, kind of thing. So there's a lot of learning that can come from that. And that's why I appreciate it. Um, I want to be able to leave you with a few things and a few ideas I saw someone asked the question of, well, how do you design this kind of thing. So we're going to do like a 50,000 foot perspective on this. But one of the things I am going to do is I'm going to pop a question into the chat that I'd love for you to answer as I'm talking through this part, because it's asking you if you're going to spend more time learning how to do this, how to build learning escape games, what kind of experiences would you want to have? What would you want to see in that workshop? What kind of resources would you want to have? And that's going to help me and my escape game designer crew to figure out how do we support you all in doing this fun, but challenging activity. So I put that out there. To give you a little bit of that high level overview of how I did it, there is an alerting escape game framework that I've been working on since doing my study. To help learning and development professionals wrap their heads around creating learning escape games. And in this framework, there's two sides to it. There's the educational side, which most of us will be very familiar with the steps that are associated with this. What are the objectives of the experience? What do you want them to do when they're done playing the game on so in this case, I wanted you to be able to explain some of the services of learning rebels have we or become familiar with how you can find things on the learning rebels website is what kind of those objectives the work breakdown structure structure, the work breakdown structure. There we go. I got that. That's a tongue twister for me today. What are the steps to do that? So for example, first you got to get to learning rebels.com Second, you've got to go to the Learn More section for you. Part of the game and then find the thing. So there's this step by step approach on if I'm going to watch you do it right. If I watch you explore the website, watch, you get to the objective that I'm looking for, what are those steps? And that becomes really important later when you start doing puzzle design. So it's a little tedious. We all love doing that part of our job, right? But that helps us with our puzzles later. And then the assessment, how do I know that you did it? Right? How did you demonstrate the behavior that we're looking for? We're all familiar with that side. But it really is a critical foundation for building escape games. On the escape side of things. You're looking at that theme, a narrative, likewise, of what you were saying before, what is the story that you're putting people into? It gives you the why of why am I taking time to play a game instead of just looking at the website? What is the value in stepping into this narrative? Or if I'm doing a puzzle, why am I doing that puzzle. So the theme and narrative is really important. Car stands for challenge, action reward. And so for example, some of you had challenges where you had to put in a number code, or you had a challenge where you had to select the right colors on like a Simon wheel, or your challenge might have been you had to decode you know, letters or numbers to actual words, those are all challenges. The actions that you take are looking through your resources, looking through the web page, and doing what you have to do to complete that challenge. And then the hours the reward, what do you get for completing the challenge? If you're an in person escape room that like satisfying clunk of a lock that you you hear? When you open up a box? That's a reward? But then also, and then like the big cheer of everyone when you're like it? And then did you get the clues to help with the next? It is my favorite thing? Do you get the clues for the next challenge action reward series? Or did you win the game. So that's that challenge, action reward car. And that really is the building blocks of an escape game. Each of those individual cars is what you pull together to make the game and then the connections are how does the challenge action reward of one lead you to the challenge, action reward of another so some of you, you received your next puzzle because you completed a challenge, some of you received parts of a clue for completing a challenge that you needed to use then later on. So that's that reward piece. And the reason why I think this framework works really well with learning is when you think of, I need I have a challenge. I need to learn something, there's something I don't know. And now I need to know how to do it. My actions will what are the steps that I take to learn it? I'm reading, I'm exploring, I'm talking, I'm practicing all of that. And then the hours the feedback? Did I do it? Right? Oh, I didn't get that right, I get to try again. Oh, I got it right now. And that's my reward. I did it. Now I know it and I can move forward with the next challenge action reward. So it fits very well with the learning mechanics as well. I know we're getting really low on time. So I appreciate that you all are answering the question out there of what you'd like to see in the future workshop. So hopefully, as we're talking through this, you're thinking of things that you can put in that link that I put there, I want to show you the the method behind the madness real quick, I took a picture. I'm a big Mind Map fan. So from the educational side of things I was listing out, if I were if I were Shannon and then eventually I've edited it through her as my client air quote for this right? What were the objectives? What would Shannon wants you to know about learning rebels.com? What would be those things to demonstrate? And then to be able to do that? What is that work breakdown structure? So a lot of this was mind mapping out for me, and being able to wrap my head around, how do you demonstrate that? And then on the escape side of things I'm thinking through, okay, I remember having this conversation like how do I make a narrative around this and eventually, like Star Wars came to mind and rebels and you know, the rebels are in space, and they gotta get back to the space space. And I was like, Well, I don't want to do a sci fi game necessarily, but I can use that kind of loose narrative to pull this game together. The challenge action rewards were okay, I know all of these things that I need people to learn how do I make them do that on the website and I use this template. I'm happy to share this template. I don't have it as a link right now, but I can get it if anyone's interested. That'd be great. And it's so the three different parts of the game are here in this first column. Each blue or purple line is what the challenges were and then the actions and rewards so this just helps me pull my mind map into a structure. And so that's how I pulled all of this together. So I use the learning escape game. framework, I know that we're right at the very end of time. So please feel free to if you have some questions, type them in the chat real quick. But I put my LinkedIn up here, if you want to connect with me, nerd out about escape games, I'm seeing a lot of folks saying, yes, they would love that template. So I'll try to share and I'll try to pull together I have a little, um, like a card website that has some resources and the templates on there. So I'll figure out how to get that out there. I'm just looking.

If you send me the link, it'll go out with the email that they get with all the other resources. Perfect.

Any final questions, concerns, regrets about learning games that you'd like to share?

Like that I think there's a whole art to the delivery and to the hosting. Like what you're seeing Rachel and Shannon do today, because Rachel wrote an escape game for me too. And I was a couple years ago, and then I ended up putting into my book, right, Rachel? So cool. And I have had to learn how to lead people through that. And I think there's just a whole nother part of it. Like, once you've designed it, and once you figured out why you're doing it, I'm paying attention to the people that are going to be facilitating it and what kind of skill set they need to support people and be able to coach them through it.

That's a great point. That's a good point. And a lot of a lot of this is all about the strength of the game, as well as the strength of the facilitator or moderator, that you have to keep things on track and to help people be not as confused as they might normally be. Right. And to help them through that. The I love this exploration, because it really is about bringing people together. It's not about necessarily about team building, but it is expanding people's creative problem solving. sections have their brain, right, and the and the collaboration, and the critical thinking of all of this to be able to pull back and think logically. So when you think about how does this apply, there are many applications beyond just oh, let's just put together an escape game for team building, you really can. If you've got critical thinking as an as an agenda item, as a skills agenda item, something like this can really help you with that. Same thing with if you're looking to be more innovative, how do you break through those creative problem solving barriers. And an exercise like this could also be very helpful for that. So I see a lot of other peripheral types of skills that can come from a well executed escape game. And so with that being said, again, I appreciate everybody hanging out with me today, I realized we ran a little bit long, but that's okay. But I think for all good reason. And you never know don't be surprised to see Rachel pop up in a learn something new session for us here within the next few months. So that way she could teach you exactly the how, what, when why behind building actually building these escape games. So thank you very much, Rachel, for spending your time with me today and all of the effort that it took for you to pull this together. I really appreciate it.

I had so much fun. Thanks for having me. And I appreciate appreciate you all being here.

Ah, good. Yeah, go edit a podcast. Oh my god. I've got a list of podcasts that I've got to go in edit. Yes, for sure. And then in the chat also, I placed what our next coffee chat which is about building these things, not escape games, but building training on a budget. That's our next Coffee Chat adventure for those of you to sign up for as well as a link to our next learn something new, which is all about building your career strategy. So hopefully I'll see you at those events. And I look forward to seeing you for those of you who are new to our coffee chat every other Friday, so not next Friday, but the Friday after. So you guys all have a good weekend. Happy Mother's Day to those moms out in the group today. I look forward to seeing you the next time that's all