Care of Magical Shippers Episode 6 - To Wolfstar and Beyond w/ BigBlackDog

5:33AM Jul 17, 2021

Speakers:

Megs

[Music]

Music

Nathan

Megs & Nathan

BigBlackDog

Megs & BigBlackDog

Megs, Nathan & BigBlackDog

Nathan & BigBlackDog

Keywords:

laughter

snape

character

harry

fic

sirius

people

feel

read

writing

remus

peter

marauders

fanfiction

love

absolutely

ship

feelings

hogwarts

question

The following podcast is rated R for really filthy. It includes adult themes and explicit content, so If you're an adult who happens to like themes directly targeting your sexy demographic, then get ready to join us as we ship it good. [whip crack]

Due to the themes discussed on this podcast, it may contain potentially triggering content. Please visit our episode description to review the warnings applicable to this episode.

[Laughter]

So since you love Wolfstar and marauders in general, uh, how do you feel about time travel and does picking Wolfstar, um, like as a central limit or your ablah blah bleh blah, blah, forget it.

[laughter]

Okay, I'm starting over. We're backing up. We're rolling back.

[laughter]

That's too much Nathan in that question. [laughter]

Sorry, Sorry, yeah. Okay. I wrote the questions it's my fault.

You did!

It is my fault entirely.

[laughter] Because...shit. This is what happens. [laughter]

Breathe! Breathe! It's fine. We got whoohoho!

You're on the canon ground, I'm up in crackship space. Let's start a shipping war, don't care if I get hate. Don't like my pairings, well, then you can hit the bricks. This is my OTP. I go down with this ship. I don't care! I ship it! I don't care! I ship it!

Hi! I'm Megs.

And I'm Nathan.

And welcome back to Care of Magical Shippers, a Harry Potter ship culture podcast. And this week, we have a guest with us. We have a writer, reader, fan, uh, BigBlackDog with you're with uh BigBlackDog with us here today. And we are so excited to have her.

Oh, we are so excited.

Hello.

Hi!

[laugher] So tell us a little bit about you.

Um, I have been active in fandom for about seven years. Um, most of that time I've been writing Wolfstar...

Yes!

...um, recently I have started writing some Drarry.

Oh, yeah! [laughter]

Ooooh. Yes! Very nice.

Very exciting. That's about it. I live in the southern US. And, um...

Mhm.

I have a small white dog. Opposite of my username.

[laughter]

I was just gonna say! I was like, that is hilarious. BigBlackDog and her little white dog.

And my little white dog. Yes.

[laughter] So cute. Well, awesome. Well, obviously we're here to talk about Wolfstar which I know Nathan is really excited about because that's one of his OTPs...

Yes. Oh...

...so. [laughter]

...Absolutely. Absolutely. So, erm, I am so excited because I when I started reading, you know Harry Potter fanfiction, these were the first ship that I really was into, because, you know, we're building off of Book Three and all the tension in that. And so, you know, I I'm just personally really excited about it. But I'm happy to have someone here who reads it, who writes it, who is involved in it. And I get to talk about like the genesis of the pairing...

[laughter]

...Oh, it's so exciting. So exciting to me. So I can't wait to sort of dive into into finding more out about that. So we

I'll be the fly. I'll be the fly on the wall. Like [laughter]

Yes!

oh, look at them like [laugher]

I am so. I can't even wait. I am practically bursting. Okay. So did you do you just want to like dive into question?

Yeah. Sure.

Are you happy with that? Yeah? Okay. Okay. So I was gonna ask, what first attracted you to fanfic and was writing Harry Potter fanfiction, your first experience of fanfic.

Um it was. I think I was like, 12 or 13 when I first started writing.

Oh yes.

Oh, you're one of those. [laughter]

Yeah.

So good. So good.

It was a short-lived career because my mom found out and she was not happy.

Oh, no!

it was a little racy.

Oh, just a little.

Oh, wow. Okay. So what were you writing that was racy at like 12 or 13? I'm so curious.

[laugter]

Um, I don't even remember what the - I know that it was self insert. So it was like me and the Marauders. We were all friends...

Oooh.

...it was like pretty classic 12 or 13 year old effort.

Mhm. [laughter]

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah I was there at Hogwarts. That was definitely the vibe.

What would happen. [laughter]

I love that you were already you went straight into marauders, age 12 because most people that I've talked to who've done that,

Mhm.

they always start with like Harry, Ron and Hermione or they're always it's always like their OC goes to like modern day Hogwarts, but you went like you were straight in with marauders, you're just like, Yeah, I know what I want. I know what I want to read. I know what I want to write, I'm going straight for it. I love that so much.

I think I just immediately loved Sirius. And at the time, I don't think I would have been able to say what that attraction was.

[laughter]

Now I feel like I was picking up on some queer cues from his character

Yeah

Yes. Yeah.

and Remus's character and like, that was the attraction there. Whereas I didn't read that so much with the golden trio at the time. Now, I totally do, they're all gay.

Right. Yeah. We make it happen [laughter] we make it happen to everybody. Everyone's gay. Everyone's bi. Everyone loves everybody. That's just that is the Harry Potter series.

[laughter]

So I was gonna ask like, what I was, I was going to ask a different question.

[laughter]

But I think i think i think i wanna ask, like, what was it about Sirius specifically that like 'cause, presumably, even after you stopped writing initially, like you would have gone back to Sirius and then gone, okay, it's this that I want to, I want to focus on or I want to fixate on or whatever. What was it about that character that like you kept coming back to you thought, Oh, I can flesh this out or explore this?

I think the initial attraction was that like, He's such a babe, you know?

Yes. [laughter]

He's got his motorcycle jacket. His giant motorcycle.

Yeah. He's so handsome.

Yeah and he's handsome. But the things that then I wanted to really dig into with that character, or, like, you know, the family difficulty that he was kicked out of Grimmauld

Yes.

like this. There's a lot there just even before all the tragedy.

Yeah.

To dig into because he doesn't fit in like he's...

Yeah,

...supposed to, right?

Mhm.

Yeah.

He's rich. He's handsome.

Yeah.

He's very bright. But he doesn't fit in.

Right.

And who doesn't want to tap into the rebel image every now and again?

Mhm.

Yes! Yeah, it's fun. Like to sort of envision yourself as somebody who's more rebellious, braver.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But I love that you had the presence of mind, even at 12 to go I want to go straight to the fun.

[laughter]

I know what I love. I'm going straight for it like that. that just I love that. So, so much. So I have to ask as well, like, other than Wolfstar, what's your what's your OTP? Like, do you do you have another pairing that you really love? Or is it just are we just talking like, marauders era?

No! Um. I've been reading and writing Drarry for...

Right. Mhm.

...like, a couple years.

Yeah, [laughter]

I see it now. I see it.

Yeah. Mhm.

The tension. The enemies to friends to lovers. Yeah

Yeah [laughter]

I know. I mean I know Megs is a massive fan of Drarry.

[laugher]

So, I mean, do you do want to like chime in here? [laughter]

[laughter] Well, that's the thing. I was just gonna joke. It's like, okay, so every episode is whatever ship we're doing and Drarry.

[laughter]

It's either the ship and Drarry and Snarry. Those two always weasel their way that way in. Because if you don't know, those are my two like OTPs. So it's like, Nathan will always be like, Hey, what do you think of this in compared to your other things like, Well, why don't I like why don't I just do this? [laughter] But yeah, no, I love I love Drarry so much for that. I mean, as you say, once you see it, you can't unsee it. They've been obsessed with each other forever. Obviously, it's because they're secretly in love with each other. They can't, you know, come to the realization for themselves. Harry has no idea. Ron and Hermione are over here whacking their heads on the wall. Like seriously, man. So it's just it's so much fun.

It is so much fun. And post war, like you're not dealing with canonical tragedy, like they win. They survived.

Yeah. Mhm.

Oh, Yeah

with Wolfstar, you don't get to do that.

No. [laughter]

They're dead. [laughter]

No. Oh, god. My heart.

I mean, unless they aren't dead. I mean, they're dead unless they aren't. And I mean. Sometimes they aren't. It's fine. Because, you know, the fans have the power of you know, resurrection or whatever.

Exactly [laughter]

Sometimes the plot idea or the character ideas are just too good to leave them dead. I mean [laughter]

Yeah.

So sometimes it isn't, but I get what you mean, you know, with Drarry it's very much you can legitimize eighth year or like, I know, we here on the pod. We love our post Hogwarts, you know, going off and exploring the world with each other phases. So I definitely feel like you couldn't do that more with Drarry. But I don't know I just I start off with ideas or preconceptions about a ship and then by the time we've talked about them and looked into them I completely I completely ship it and stan it and whatever else. You know?

So my question then is Do you have a favorite 3TP or multi pairing like a poly pairing?

Um, I love the idea of like Harry and Ginny getting married really young

Mhm.

and then both of them realizing that they're queer together.

Mhm.

Oh, wow.

and then tacking Draco onto that

Oh heck yeah. [laughter]

I feel like Ginny would just like take the piss out of Harry so much, but also be like really supportive. Like they still love each other so much and she could just be like, just mean like, just really go after it.

Now you look at both of them. I could see Ginny and Draco just having a shit ton of fun

[laughter]

just picking at Harry all day long. I mean, they're just going through life like sitting at breakfast just taking the piss out of him and just going back and forth and Harry's just over here like stabbing his you know, stabbing potatoes.

[laughter]

Oh my god, like [laughter]

Why have I done this

So much fun. Yeah. So much fun. I love that. So obviously, you talked about Sirius and how much you love Sirius. Do you have a least favorite Marauder?

You know, I'm pretty basic. I don't love Peter.

Yeah. [laughter] Peter, who is Peter? [laughter]

Yeah, I'm one of the fans that's like, he doesn't need to be in my fanart. He doesn't need to be in my fanfiction.

Right, right.

We can pretend that Peter does not exist

Not exist. Yeah, yeah. My fic, my choice.

Well that's basically. what the other marauders do.

Yeah. Yeah, see, it's funny cuz for me when I, I only just I think for the first time wrote a Wolfstar. Because one of my friends really likes Wolfstar. So I promised them that I would write it for them. And I did. I think I yeah, I did bring in Peter. And they're like, Oh, why is Peter here? Like, well, he was their friend like he was their friend back then. They did trust him enough to, you know, to have him be the secret keeper. So even though he's like this spineless little guy, I mean, obviously, they thought and felt a certain way about him that they felt they could trust them. So I can see why people don't want him there. But I love the as-- I mean, I've talked in previous episodes, so just kind of to give you a background. I love making the unlikable, likeable. Like when I write fanfiction. So like, if you see a character, you're just like, oh, how? No, they're not worth my empathy, sympathy, whatever. And all of a sudden, I'm like, Well, here I go. [laughter] So but yes, that is definitely a very common thing. Or if Peters mentioned, it's like, oh, Peter was like off at gobstones club or something like that. Like he's there. But he's not with them. He doesn't get any dialogue. So it's just yeah,

I'm an off at gobstones club writer. Like, oh yeah, Peter, okay, he has remedial potions lessons to go to. He's not here! [laughter]

Of course he does! Yes, of course he does.

Is that the attraction to Snape as well? You said you ship Snarry?

Yes, definitely. And it's funny because Okay, here we go. This is what I told you. This is what happens. So I yeah, when I discovered Snarry I mean, I always hated Snape. I mean, I read the books, and I hated him. I never thought that he was seen as a hero, especially at the end. And it wasn't until I read fan fanfiction that I started seeing the layers to him as a character, and the potential and the amount of fun you can have with a character like him, and obviously make him more likable or empathizable than us just seeing him being dicks to kids through seven books. So yeah, so that's what I love about fic with villains in general, or the unlikable, is being able to be convinced this is why you actually should like them, and actually them being dicks is kind of what makes them appealing. [laughter] I don't know. That's just kind of, that's me. That's my point of view.

But I mean, you love the power of redemptive fic as well.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean and I feel like a lot of your-- a lot of your Snarry obsession comes from the idea that Snape can be redeemed or that Snape isn't the same person that we know in the books because of

Right

You know, other things or the facts in the story. And actually, that was gonna be one of my questions to you was like, how do you feel about fics that redeem characters and specifically like fics that redeem Peter? Because I already know he's not your favorite Marauder? So I think I know what the answer is gonna be but like,

By all means, redeem Peter. That's just not the work that I want to do as a fan.

[laughter]

You do you you do you writers. You do you readers.

I'm not out You're being like Peter is unredeemable, like, I love that that is the thing that we can do as fans. And I, you know, I haven't thought about it in regard to Peter so much because like, I just don't care about Peter.

Right. It's like he's not even there.

Perfect!

He doesn't exist, so I can't redeem him.

I love that so much. He doesn't exist, so I can't redeem him. That's what we need on a T shirt. [laughter] That's all we need right there!

Oh God

Oh I love that so much.

Oh, man.

Oooh! Okay.

I have thought about it a lot with my Drarry fic though. I don't want to take us off into Drarry territory.

Oh no, that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. [laughter]

It's Fine.

I will never say no.

Um, I don't know if you guys saw this post floating around on Tumblr, but it was a really interesting post about redemption arcs being like an essentially Christian framework. Where like

I think I did. I didn't read it. I remember seeing it like reblogged. But I don't think I stopped and read it. But I am familiar with what you're talking about

Well it was super interesting. Like just the concept of forgiveness is based on this idea that there's somebody out there like vetting judgment about what's forgivable, and what's not forgivable, and I love that with with Drarry. I love that with Draco especially. Because like he turns before the end of the seventh book, like, the manor scene and then like, it's so powerful that Harry uses Draco's wand to defeat Voldemort. Like, it's there.

It is.

Yeah. [laughter]

I feel like a lot of Draco redemption arcs like we have to see him suffering first, like we have to see him really. And that's like our concept of forgiveness. Like if you're suffering then you then you're allowed forgiveness. And I've been trying to write a fic where like, he's not suffering. What if suffering wasn't like the benchmark by which we like understood people have remorse for their actions?

Yeah,

That's really interesting. And of course, now I'm thinking okay, is there a fic out there about Peter suffering, like as a kid, like, what was his life like? What kind of built him to make him who he was and made the decisions that he did? Because obviously there you know, there were reasons for various things. So that's a-- no, that's really interesting.

One of my favorite Peter headcanons is that like, he's in a he's part of a really big family. And he's one of the kids that's like, shunted to the side.

Oh, yeah. He's like the little. Yeah, like either the youngest or like, the awkward one or something like that. Oh, yeah. I could see that, for sure.

Yeah. I'm, as I always bring everything back to the Sacrifices Arc, but I'm thinking of I'm thinking of the Sacrifices Arc, because this is really-- so Peter's character in it is sort of essentially betrayed by Dumbledore. And because of Dumbledore's manipulation, he gets framed for things that have happened, and he ends up spending years in Azkaban but then Harry finds out that this has happened. And there's a redemption arc where Peter essentially takes the fall for Dumbledore's manipulation. And when he figures this out, there's a really interesting crossover there between Peter and Harry. And Harry having to reframe a lot of the guilt that he had put on Peter shoulders, and actually squarely lay it on the shoulders of his mother, and on Dumbledore. Which is really interesting. Like in my I haven't read an awful lot of fic that does that. But I still really, I think it goes back to what you were saying about like, if we see a character suffering, we like can see some sort of road to innocence for them. And, or forgiveness or what you know, however you want to frame it. And I think it's really interesting to look at the same events that we've seen happen canonically but reframe them in a different context. And it completely changes the way we look at character. I love when that happens.

Oh, that's my favorite. I love being like, Hey, here's canon, but let's go behind the scenes and these are the reasons why it happened that are completely not what you thought they were. Oh, I love that so much. Thank you fanfiction. [laughter]

Yeah. Yeah.

So getting things into kind of the silly area. Do you have any favorite crack fic pairings like where kind of the more I guess, Goofy, fun. Whatever. fanfic I guess.

I feel like Alaster Moody slash anyone is hilarious.

Oh I want to see him with Yes. Oh, that's wonderful. That's wonderful.

What if you like lived with him as your significant other and he's just like always constant vigilance. Like in the middle of breakfast. Yes. In the middle of orgasm in the shower. [laughter]

Like, you drop the spatula, and he's just like Huh!

He's convinced he is convinced that the spatula is a transfigured Death Eater. He's just like, feeding it veritaserum. [laughter]

You're going to flip a pancake, and it's, of course, we make pancakes. Flip a pancake, and then the spatula just explodes. Because it's like, just oh, my goodness, that is hilarious. Seeing domestic Moody. As just as well as going back like, before he has, what is it? Nathan, you're gonna you're in the process of writing a Moody fic, aren't you?

Yeah. yeah, I am. Because I feel like-- so Moody is codified as this really interesting would that, you know, we see him in his, in his sort of post Auror days where he's really old and grizzled. And he has-- Essentially, I love looking at him as a metaphor for disability. Because, you know, he has the wooden leg and the magical eye, and essentially, all these sort of augmentations to his body. But I love fic that looks at his early life, and looks at how he's ended up in the position that he's in. And, you know, looking at his, the way we explore his conceptions of vulnerability and things. I mean, I just I'm fascinated by that. So I'm in the middle of I don't know if it'll ever get written but I'm in the middle of writing a fic at the moment where he's sort of he's in-- so it's he's in the trunk in the seven-tiered trunk. And he is sort of looking at all of the life decisions and everything that led up to that moment and I know I'm fascinated psychologically by him. I think he is a is a-- He's a great metaphor for disability in a way and that really that I'd no, that really ticks my boxes but domestic, domestic Moody is making me love him even more. I just have. Is there any one in particular that you see Moody being shipped with?

Wouldn't it be? I mean, is this for real? Or is it crack fic?

Either? Whatever? Yeah,

Yeah, whatever you think?

I think it would be hilarious if he was with Snape. [laughter]

Oh, it's so good! I was hoping you'd say something like that. [laughter] Okay. Ha ha!

Oh, those two personalities. Oh, have to be fantastic. Oh my gosh, like [laughter]

Yeah. Cause-- Cuz I so Okay, so I love fics where Snape and Lockhart get together. And I feel like and I feel like this could be another. This could be another Snockhart. [laughter] Smoody. What would the pairing name be, actually?

Snoody! Snoody. Snoody.

Yeah! [laughter]

it's absolutely Snoody.

Yes, Snoody is it. Yep.

Oh I love that so much. Okay, forget everything else I've just said, I need our listeners to send me Snoody fic, please.

We need it. We need Snoody. [laughter]

Okay, I will calm down, I promise. [laughter] I'm sorry that image is just too good!

I know! The the visuals I have right now. It's just like, I just picture like Snape either like coming home from work and Moody asking about his day and he's just like, glaring at him. And he's like, well, I'm gonna tell you about all the shit that I did today. And just like, oh, gosh, it's just like, Oh, man. Oh, geez. That's just hilarious. I love that.

I could, I could see that pairing. bringing out Snape's like secret, caring side as well, like brewing him potions that reduces like pain or whatever. Like I see the potential for a lot of like, unexpected fluff to happen in that pairing. So I don't know what maybe maybe I'm just maybe it's wishful thinking but that's what I want to read.

And also because like I mean, for most of us, we have been like we have the perceived notion that Snape is obviously unattractive. So like Moody has been through things and he could probably have his own self feeling of unattractiveness and things like that. And so them being able to like find each other and even if neither of them believe it for themselves, their partner is helping them like feel seen and validated and loved regardless of who they are or what they look like, which I think is really it's really sweet. [laughter].

They've also both been in the trenches of two wars. So they have that to to bond over. In time.

Yean, they have that thing have the physical and the emotional battle scars. And it's time for them both to heal. And that is that it Yeah, I want to read that.

And also, I know that it was actually a Death Eater call it uses Moody who turned Draco into a ferret. But I love the idea that they would both be like a little mean to kids. [laughter]

That, actually, it would be funny though, if it was literally fourth year and it was actually Moody and they were together and they're just like they go home at night like Oh, so what do you do today?

I poisoned Neville's frog What did you do?

What did you do today?

Oh is that all? I turned a kid into a ferret.

Oh, shit. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Oh, that's so good.

Or like, or like Snape says, Oh, I poisoned Neville's toad. So Moody says, Oh, now I have to give him a book on plant life to be to balance it out. Like, rolling his eyes yeah.

Oh yes! Like, I gotta fix this now, like I have to pick up you I have to clean up your mess, essentially.

And then he can be-- He can be like rolling his eyes and being like, 'constant vigilance'. Love that so much. Oh, okay. So getting back

Back to some questions!

Back to the questions. And, you know, making sure that we treat you with the reverence that you deserve for writing such writing such fanfic gold. I, I really wanted to ask you, like, how much how much of your how much of your writing is like, catharsis, and how much is like, purely just for fun? Like, just because you have an idea and you want to get it onto the page? Or is it like a mix of both of those?

I would say that all of my Wolfstar fic is like pure catharsis. It's, it's definitely like me having two big feelings, and then needing to process them. With a bit of distance, because like, once you put a character in between you and your big feelings, they're a little easier to pick apart and manage. My Drarry, not so much. It's, it's more just fun. And maybe that's just like a phase that I'm in in my life, but the Wolfstar stuff, and maybe with Wolfstar, it's the characters. Like, we don't have a lot about, like their emotional states or their personality, or how they process these big events. So like, you can really just put your whole self into those characters.

Yes

Because they are a little less developed in canon than somebody like Harry, whose point of view we're seeing all the time.

Absolutely.

Yeah. So I tend to make Remus you know, he's, he's the bookish one.

Yeah,

That's the fanon characterization. So, you know, it's also easy to sort of make him into someone who's very sensitive and very thoughtful. And he also, obviously has a lot of trauma that he deals with on a regular basis. So it's very easy to put a lot of your own sort of difficult emotions into that character because he lives with a lot of difficult emotions all the time.

Absolutely. I can relate to that so much. It's just like, so much angst and so much hurt and so much so many feelings that everything that I write, I just can't. I can't I can't avoid it. It just happens.

I know. Yeah, sometimes I'll sit down and I'll be like, this is the time that I'm not going to make people cry.

Yes. Same

And then I make them cry.

Nope. Yeah, no, it doesn't happen. Nathan can say firsthand it doesn't.

Yes, Yes, I can. I never-- But I never expect that I'm going to cry, particularly if you start off with a with a cracky scenario. But then, like nine times out of ten, then the angsty stuff will hit and I'm like oh crap I'm invested. Oh no. You know. It just becomes it just becomes a you know, a personal rabbit hole that you end up sort of going down but it's so worth it when the story is ended correctly because this is another beef I have with fanfiction where some stories don't finish and then you're like or they finish but they don't end with a sense of catharsis that the emotions have built up. So I'm like, I have nowhere for these deep feelings to go.

Yeah, they're just they're just here now like, what do I? They're on my shoulders? Like how do I get rid of them? How do I make this okay. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

You write your story. That's, that's the little seed where you're like, Okay, I'm gonna finish this story in my own way.

Mhm Mhm. That's true. Make your own ending. Absolutely.

I just realized that nodding along is a really bad habit to get into for a podcast where no one no one can see that I'm agreeing, but like it's it's still happening. Listeners I'm agreeing I'm agreeing very hard right now. But I-- I feel like I need an auditory, like Mmm. mmm. Mwahaha the sounds of agreement. Mmm.

Nathan's neck hurts really bad. That's how much he's agreeing right now. [laughter] So since you love Wolfstar and marauders in general, how do you feel about time travel and does picking Wolfstar like as a central limit or your a pp or your ablah blah bleh blah, blah, forget it. Okay, I'm starting over. We're backing up. We're rolling back. That's too much Nathan in that question.

Sorry, sorry. Yeah. Okay. I wrote the questions, it's my fault.

You did!

It is my fault entirely.

Because what-- shit-- this is what happens.

Breathe! Breathe! It's fine, we'll get there. Whoo hoo hoo!

So because Wolfstar is your OTP and you love marauders era in general, how do you feel about time travel and them interacting with like other characters from other eras either coming back to that era?

I usually go the AU route rather than the time travel route. I've never written time travel. I would rather make them live or be resurrected.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Then have those opportunities to deal and interact with you know, Harry, Ron, Hermione.

Yeah,

So I've never done the time travel thing because I'm always like, uh, they didn't die. They just didn't die.

Right. Why would they have to die.

So here they are! Adopted Harry.

This is they're going to Uncle Remus and Uncle Sirius' house like Saturday night dinners with the Weasleys and everybody and Tonks is there with the-- oh there's the dog-- and Tonks is there with her girlfriend and they're just having a great old. time.

Yes. Yeah. One big happy poly family.

Yes!

Tonks and Teddy are there, Remus is part of their little unit and he's also part of the unit with Sirius and Harry and they're all eating lasagna.

Oh, of course they are. Yeah, obviously.

And of course, Remus makes his own bechamel and it's all you know, it's all homemade. All the ingredients are like freshly sourced. I see it. I see it.

Yes, absolutely a bechamel. Yeah, I don't have time travel because the bechamel is timeless.

Oh, absolutely. So we did a little bit of Snape talk and of course I'm really interested. Do you personally have any strong like Snape feelings or judgments as far as his character goes with the Marauders?

Honestly, I haven't gotten into like the Snape discourse because from afar what I see is that it gets so wanky so fast,

It's so ridiculous. It's so ridiculous.

Like there's a big part of me that's like, in curating my fan experience, I'm just like, Oh, I'm not. I'm not getting into it. Too bad. Because people can get really ugly about it.

Oh for sure.

But I tend I tend to be you know, not aligned with the the anti-Snape movement. Cuz I think that we need greyscale characters and we need difficult people and. And on top of all of that, it's fictional. He didn't actually abuse Neville Longbottom.

Right.

There is no Neville Longbottom.

Exactly. Thank you so much. This is all fiction regardless of what it is like. I just oh man. No, yeah. 100% Absolutely. I can see it from both sides personally. Obviously I love Snarry. I love Snape as a character in fanfiction especially. But I can also appreciate marauders focused fic that kind of obviously see the negative sides of him too. I can believe that. I can believe them being bullies to him and vice versa. I see everything because anything and everything can be- can exist and that's cool like I'm good that that.

Yeah! Well and that's what's so valuable about his character that he's like both suffered and done a lot of harm and how do we reconcile those things? And we're willing to do that with Draco. He has both suffered and done a lot of harm. So

Yes, exactly.

You know why why not with Snape as well.

For sure.

Do we do you feel like it's because Snape is an adult? So we give we're willing to give him less wiggle room because we expect that because he's been through more we expect them to have more wisdom or something?

That is a really good point. Yeah, one of the things that's easy to forgive Draco for is that like he's a literal child.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, most of his decisions were based on what he thought he should do or what he was pressured to do or what he was raised to think and feel. So yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Whereas with Snape as an adult, we feel like why are you still tormenting children?

Right, exactly. Like we get it. Like you were bullied. You had a shitty home life. Like you've been having to pretend to be, you know. I mean, obviously, he's gone through a lot of shit. Like I can go through like all of that, that he must carry with him. But you don't have to take it out on children. Like be angry, be cranky, be like, you know traumatized, but man, don't don't be a dick to kids. Like, that's just just don't do it. That's a choice.

That there are things like in the tone of the early books is like a much more like childlike tone. And there's like a history in British Literature like Roald Dahl of like, the evil

Oh absolutely! The twits, the twits, right? That's what I'm thinking of.

Yeah. And it's just, it's really exaggerated and we understand that, like, because of that tone there, and we take it less seriously. But then the books grew and changed, and then we have to grapple with the earlier content that we weren't taking so seriously [inaudible]

Yes. Due to us scrutinizing it. We're bringing a magnifying glass and Yep.

Right. Whereas like, when you're 11 years old reading that it reads really differently. You're not thinking to yourself, like Oh, Snape is abusive. You're just like Ah, The Evil Guy.

Yeah, exactly. The bad guy.

Love to hate him! Yeah.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like, oh, he's the mean, teacher. I have a mean teacher too. [laughter] Yeah. I hate Mrs. Stevenson. [laughter]

Apologies to all the Mrs. Stevens for that absolutely. [laughter] We're sorry, it's not intended at you personally.

No, it's definitely not.

Except for the one that is!

Yes, exactly. The Miss the Miss Stevenson that lives at 1375, no just [laughter]

Yes, if you're listening and you live near her, go and egg her house right now. [laughter] We don't condone violence, but we do condone a bit of light egging.

I don't! I'm a vegan that's rude! [laughter] Maybe some toilet papers fine. As long as it's recycled. That's totally fine. It'll biodegrade. I'm cool with some toilet paper. That's totally fine. [laughter]

So like at what point does Snape graduate from pantomime villain to like to complicated human that we can root for? Do you think? And does that? Does the same sort of logic apply to someone like -- sorry to bring it back to Peter Pettigrew -- But does the same logic. Does the same logic apply for someone like him? Or does does Snape exist in a sort of a vacuum? Do you think?

Um, when you say what, at what point, the first scene that flashed into my mind is is that when Harry's getting the Occumency lessons with Snape and Snape's worst memory. That changes things. And it changes things for Harry too. Like, you're all you're on the same ride with him where he's like, Oh my God, my father really was a dick. I don't know what to do with this information.

Exactly. Yeah.

So that that to me, is the turning point where you're like, Oh, no,

right.

He's not just ragging on on Harry. There. They're like really bad memories of like, basically assault.

Yeah,

yeah.

And that has to be like the whole his whole Hogwarts career. I mean, at that point, what they were it was OWLs, So they were 15, 16 at that time, too. So he's been going through this for five, six years already. So it's just yeah. It's crazy to think. I mean, he's just bitter and he's just cranky about it. It's not like he's ever going to be vulnerable. He's just going to be like, yeah, your dad was a dick. And I'm not going to tell you why. Because he was. And Harry's just like you're an asshole. But now it's like he's never gonna be vulnerable with anyone and that's what I love about fanfiction. I want to see what's going on in Snape's mind. Like, I want him to break down and show me what he will never show anyone else. And that's Yeah, for sure.

Exactly. Because Can you imagine having imagine First of all, like going through the trauma of being abused, but then having to go back to the place that it happened to work. And you know,

Yes! He's never moved on!

Yeah! He's literally he can't move on because he's still stuck in the place that it happened. So every day a part of him has to be reliving what he went through.

And he still owns his parents house. He still has Spinners End. So he's still at his childhood home where his childhood shit went down. I mean, Good Lord, He is self inflicting-- is this man a masochist? Like what is going on?

Yes! Of course he is!

He's just like, you are making choices, man. I mean, holy, oh, wow. Yeah, that's wild.

Hashtag Get these wizards a therapists yesterday.

Yes! Exactly. Oh, I think this was this brought up some time somewhere. It was like, because we can't picture Madam Hooch doing any-- because if she's only teaching flying lessons to first years, potentially. Obviously, she only has like two classes. Because if they're doing mixed classes between two houses at a time, so the rest of the time she's like, kind of the career advisor or the therapist, but she's like, not really good at her job. [laughter] Like, just like, Oh, yeah, Madam Hooch is there but she just doesn't. She's just like, Oh, yeah, this is this is what they told me to do.

Like a lot of sports talk. Chin up, champ!

Yes, exactly.

Go for the gold!

bucket. Yeah. Buck it up. Yeah. Exactly. My god.

Feeling bad at the end of a rough day? Try flying into 50 mile an hour winds directly. Scream into the wind. That'll help!

Exactly.

Yeah, I can I can see that. I also, I think all of her advice is going to be funneled through her own direct life experience. Which is that what is it she says when whenever they're talking about broomsticks? And she's like, oh, the old comet 360s. Or no, she talks about the Silver Arrows. She's like nothing flies as well as the Silver Arrows they used to make. I sort of feel like if only they had more Silver Arrows these days, these students wouldn't be going around with half these problems. You know, I just sort of feel like everything would come back down to fly straight into the wind, then you'll forget your issues.

The second part of your question the Peter Pettigrew part, I guess. He's just like pitiable. Like I don't I don't remember hating Peter in the books. I remember feeling really sorry for him like he's had.

Well I didn't! That's really interesting. Continue, sorry.

Oh, Well, he's like milking Nagini. Like, to me, that seems like the worst chore in the world [laugher]

I know And what does that mean for a snake?

What does it-- Yeah.

What does that mean? There's so many questions!

Yes. Like, I can't think of anything that I want to do less than milk a giant snake. Poor Peter.

Okay, so I feel so I feel like from a practical point of view, it is just extracting venom from a snake. But it has some, it has some dodgy connotations, right? It's not-- reading that you're like, what what is actually happening? But I I'm really interested about why you think Peter was or is pitiable when when you read him, because when I read him, I just read somebody who has very little backbone, and who is manipulated. But to me, that doesn't make him pitiable. I feel like that's as a consequence of the choices he chooses to make. Because at the end of Book Three, he decides to, you know, run away and go off to Albania to try and find Voldemort again, you know what and set that whole plan in motion, that is a choice he made. So whenever he's milking Nagini, that is a direct result of so-- sorry I'm--

a choice. Whenever he's doing that, he's like, Oh, god,

Yeah. So, I'm sorry.

Oh, man,

But like, whenever. So whenever he is, is extracting venom from Nagini, that is a direct result of a choice that he's made. Right?

I just feel like he's so afraid all the time. It's hard really not to feel sorry for him. Like he does make really bad choices, but they're out of this place of like mortal terror.

Yeah, but also self preservation. Like he's like, he he just they the what is it Sirius, or they mentioned like, you just like having big friends to you know, protect you or take care of you. Which could be true. I mean, literally is like, just is happy to have someone be his wall between everything else. And if someone comes up like Voldemort or whoever is like, Hey, you better tell me or I'm gonna do A, B, and C. He's just like, Oh, fine, fine, fine. Like no, like it's there's no wall there anymore, and it just dissolves for him. So I feel like loyalty isn't as much a thing as the self preservation aspect of having, you know, his friends, the benefit of having those friends is the fact that they're, they're there to protect him. So

but the way he dies, like,

Yeah, yeah.

The moment that he makes a choice against his own self preservation, the hand chokes him. But like, he does make that final choice for like, he's gonna protect Harry.

Oh, sure. But I don't want to get this to get really deep.

But then Nathatn's like, I get it, but

Yeah I get-- but i do i get it. But at the same time, does one good, does one good choice at the end of someone's life make up for a bunch of bad ones? It's the same. It's the same problem that I have with that, that I have with Snape. Where it's like when we learn that a lot of his motivations were through, you know, being in love with Lily and arriving at that place. I sort of feel that the same thing applies to Peter. Where I get that he is is making a choice against his own self preservation. And it is the good choice. He's actively making a selfless choice here. But I don't know personally, that that redeems him for all the other stuff that he's done. Because if you think about it, if he had just decided the end of Book Three, not to go scampering off to Albania, he'd be he wouldn't be in any mortal terror because Voldemort wouldn't be resurrected.

That's a very good point.

Yeah. He finds it right. Like he Yeah. Oh, goodness. Yeah, he finds them. He takes like, he finds What is it? Oh, gosh. What's her name? The like from the Ministry?

Oh, Bertha Jorkins

Bertha jerkins. Like, finds her and brings her to Voldemort. Like, it's like, he's, he's doing shitty stuff. Where he's just like, Oh, yeah. And he's just gonna watch her be tortured for information until literally into through insanity until he kills her and does whatever with her. And she's gone. I mean, Ooh [shudder] Sorry.

Oh, boy. Oh, my my my my. So anyways, Wolfstar.

Yeah. Sorry. We've gone a little bit off topic. Um.

See this is what happens. this is just what happens.

We Yeah, we do this every week. It's really good. We have to apologize to you. We did have Wolfstar-related questions. [laughter] Yes, So do you want to ask or will I?

So you had mentioned earlier when you were younger, doing self-inserted fic. Do you have any other like, original characters that you like to write? Or is it primarily kind of getting yourself in there? Do you play around with anything like that?

Um, well, now the self-insert that I do is just putting all my feelings into an existing character. So I feel less of a need to make an OC to put those feelings in there. I'm like, I am Sirius. What?

Yeah,

Yeah, Sirius is me. Yeah. [laughter] Yes,

um, I do have like some small cameos characters that I've really enjoyed. Like in one fic I have- in my raising Harry fic I have a character who's a single mom who shows up for like, literally a paragraph, but I just love her.

Yeah. Aw, that's so nice.

So then is that a Remus/Sirius raising Harry fic? is that what it?

yes, yeah,

yeah. Aw that's so cute!

Oh, yes.

Tell us about that one. Because we haven't really talked about the raising like the raising trope. I love that.

I love a raising Harry trope. I love that like all of them, all three of them have been through some hugely traumatic events.

Right

They've basically lost each of them everyone that they really loved in losing James and Lily and then Peter. So the idea of like these three broken individuals coming together in like a found family situation is just like it cures all my ills. It it. Yeah. Tears.

Wiping tears, tears. Oh, that's so beautiful.

I just, I love it. And I love in my raising Harry like they struggle a lot with learning how to be parents and like grieving the loss of their friends and Harry's parents. And I really focused on like the trauma that Harry has experienced because I think a lot of times we think that like very young children are more resilient than they are.

Right

Just because they can't speak their needs or articulate their feelings in the same way, we think that they are less affected by big traumas in their lives.

Oh absolutely.

And they're not. Like they're affected even more so because their brain development gets affected. Um, so I I really enjoyed writing that aspect of my raising Harry, because I care about tiny children and their well being. I should mentioned I'm a kindergarten teacher.

Ah. So wholesome! Okay, I need I need a little cry break.

What's the name of that fic?

It's Holding Out. It's called Holding Out.

Awesome. We will definitely link to that baby for sure.

Yes.

Thank you.

I'm excited to read that I remember seeing it listed and being like, Okay, I'm that's a to read. Ooh, so another question that I have ta--. So when you talked about Ra]emus as kind of a more like-- I mean, all of them are broken, obviously a little bit more vulnerable, been through a lot of trauma. So let's say from the aspect that obviously Wolfstar was a thing during school, like either they were together. And then of course, the Lily/James thing happened and they all believe that Sirius did it and he goes to Azkaban. How do you feel Remus handled those 13 years?

Oh, um, I have this head canon that like Remus got really into drugs. Like.

I mean, he's a mess when like, he shows up like with his like old trunk and and old robes. I mean, regardless of the werewolf thing. Where has he been? Who's been helping him? Like, what has he been doing?

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah, so

Yeah, I could definitely see that.

Yeah, I feel like he really, like went to a really dark place, really struggled a lot for several years. And, and what we see in the beginning of Prisoner of Azkaban is like, how he's been living his life. It's just like in tatters.

Yeah.

Right, because we constantly get descriptions of him as really drawn and gaunt, and, you know, wearing patched clothes and everything is frayed. And he's constantly graying. And a lot of that description is really analogous, with people in recovery as well. And I never even put two and two together until you just said that. That is such interesting headcanon. You see, this is why we do interviews. I mean like [laughter] Let's do this more often!`

I know. Exactly.

Yes! Ideas!

Oh, my gosh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, because his his main friend group, Sirius either his significant other, James and Peter, Lilly. Peter died because Sirius killed him, potentially, Lilly and James died because of Sirius, I mean, he has no one. But I'm also curious because they were technically-- they were technically involved ish, like in the Order of the Phoenix back then, right? Like they were in Moody's picture.

Yeah. Yeah.

But the Weasleys said they weren't even though they were older. Like didn't Molly say that they weren't involved last time? I'm just wondering who was left from that group that either he could have gone to or relied on or been supportive with? I mean, obviously, Frank and Alice were tortured, but I want to say at a later time, because that was when, after the downfall. So I don't know. That's I'm also curious about all those other characters and and yeah. Where did-- Where did he go? I did ah.

I feel like no one because he also has this secret that he has to keep about being a werewolf.

Yeah,

You know, it's the only people in Hogwarts who know are Dumbledore and the four marauders. And he's able to come at the beginning of Prisoner of Azkaban, and it's a big secret then, I'm feeling like he's not sharing that with anyone. So even if he had people in his life left, they wouldn't know this giant thing about him that he has to hide in order to be accepted. So it's like having no one at all.

I know.

And imagine how imagine how complicated it must feel for him. To be to have Snape know. And then to be so grateful to Snape for brewing the wolfsbane every month, you know, and to have to have-- to have to have that gratitude and sort of graduate from being potentially you know, quasi mortal enemies, to come to this understanding of even my former like, arch enemy now has to come to my rescue. That has to be really-- I mean it's already lonely for him. That has to be really mentally difficult.

This is why I struggle writing fluff because I don't know how that works. There is so much emotion and pain and brokenness in all of these characters. And I just can't I can't see it. I mean, I love that people can do it and make you feel good and whatever. But I'm just here like eating up all this drama. I could eat it all day long. I love it.

So then another question that I had. So when it comes to Remus and Sirius, do you see Gary Oldman and David Thewlis as like good representations of them? Or how do you feel as far as like headcanon goes?

Yeah, I don't because they're 21 when all this goes down,

Right. Yes.

And when Harry meets them, they're supposed to be 30 and I'm turning 30 this year,

Do I look like them? Yeah, same, like, [laughter] Where are the Marauders when we meet Harry?

Right, Yeah. And like, so much of the tragedy is that their entire adult lives and their entire youth has been taken up fighting this war. And in that Sirius, his entire adult life, he's been in prison. Like, I feel like you just get so much more the tragedy of it all when you see them as really young people who have given up their whole lives to fight this cause.

And that's where for me, especially with like the Snape's, memory and Snape's trauma aspect of, it's easy for Harry to think, well, gosh, that was only three or so before that--years before they die that my dad was having him strung upside down show like, how can that much little time kind of switch who Harry could see or think even how Sirius and Remus and his father are? Because they were so it's like, oh, we were young. And Harry's, like, you were my age. And then a couple years later, I mean, this is you're supposed to be like these great people. I mean, just yeah, it's it's. It's funny, because it's the opposite from when we see like those high school movies where they like cast like 25 year olds to be 15.

Yeah, yeah. [laughter]

It's just like. So yeah, I'm hoping if and when obviously, either a series or reboot of movies and whatnot, that they actually do, you know, age appropriate things. Because I think that's a really powerful part that we don't really focus enough on because we even though we get it in the books, when we see it now we have that disconnect of like, Oh, yeah, they there's so much older, and it's just it wasn't that way at all.

Right. And I think a lot of that as well is heightened by the fact that sometimes with-- in interviews with actors after the fact, they they say, Oh, well, I didn't really know a lot about the character before I signed on to play the part.

Yes.

I know Michael Gambon said that about Dumbledore. And that really annoys me, because I'm like you you

Yeah, Gary Oldman, same thing. He hadn't even read the books. Yeah, not until the very end. [laughter] It's like,

I know people obsess about Gary Oldman, and not without reason.

yeah, yeah,

But I do think that you have to, regardless or not, regardless of whether or not they're, they're acting well, you have to ask yourself, are they being true to-- how can they be true to a character they don't know? Essentially?

Yes.

You know? And I definitely picture different people in those roles. And I'm glad that you I'm glad that you picked up on that because it's, it's one of my pet peeves is when actors just they don't know the role before they they take it on. And then it becomes You know, it very obviously for me became Gary Oldman doing Sirius rather than this is Sirius Black. For me, that's just my opinion. I know, there are going to be listeners that disagree with me, but but you know, get in touch with me and we'll think about it.

Yeah, I know exactly, exactly.

We can take it we can take it.

I feel like that's one of the things that fan art gets really right is that you do have

[gasp]

Yes!

really young representations of these characters. They they look their age, in all-- in most of the fanart that I've seen. so I headcanon a lot of the fanart that I've seen as as what these characters look like.

Yeah. It's interesting, because of course, I'm not like super familiar, I haven't been it's not till recently that I've really discovered or looked into Wolfstar, but with a lot of fan art that you bring that up. Sirius does have all those tattoos that they give him from the movie and I'm wondering if that was a pre existing thing before the movie or if that was that was pulled from the movie because I don't know. Like, I don't know that we would have known or seen anything like that without that representation from the films, I guess I don't know.

Yes. Yeah, that's a really good point. I think they do use the movie tattoos.

Yeah, and it's interesting because then it's like, oh, did he have them in school? Or was it kind of one of those like prison situations of like, yeah, they're like giving each other-- but they can't be-- I doubt I don't see them interacting with each other. Like when it comes to Azkaban, I just see them they're each individually in a cell separated from one another. I mean, who knows? But I mean, they're great.

Well, and the rest of them are Death Eaters.

Yeah,

Like is Sirius getting a tattoo from Bellatrix? No.

[laughter] Oh, God. Yeah. Oh, for sure. No, but yeah, cuz I was thinking about that. Like, I'm pretty sure that was a movie thing first, but when you see Remus, like, you get kind of the blonder hair, all the scarring all over his body, which I mean, I love-- at first I was like, why is he covered in scars? And then I'm like, why is he not? like Why? Of course he's covered in scars. He's a freakin werewolf. So it just sounds funny.

It's a metaphor!

Yeah, exactly. It's just yeah, it's been fun getting back into like looking through fan art and things like that, and the representation of a lot of headcanon of characters and then how it overflows into how other people see it. Like it influences other people. So it collectively, we might see them a certain way. And it just, that's what we know to be true, which is also really cool to think. So the fandom is amazing. We create what we want, and we bond over what we want. And we reject what we want to reject, which is also great. So it's just yeah.

yeah, I especially love in in fan art, where they're drawing Sirius and Remus as characters of color. Like that is one of the best parts of fandom, one of the best parts of fan art is like reimagining these characters as ourselves. Brown people. People who are disenfranchised. People who didn't get to be a part of the private school British drama and everything.

Yeah, Yeah. absolutely. Exactly.

Exactly. Mmhmm, Mmhmm, for sure. Yeah, I'd absolutely I'm 100% they're ours, we can do whatever we want with them. It's just it's great.

I don't want to get too nerdy with a with a moment like this, but but shipping-- so the first ship came from Star Trek, and one of the reasons I love Star Trek so much is that its creator, Gene Roddenberry said, what, when asked what his vision for Star Trek was, he said, infinite diversity in infinite combinations. And I feel like this is what this is what fanfic, especially, you know, when the Harry Potter universe and everything else really, really carries on that tradition of like, how much can we push the envelope. And I love seeing the combinations that people come up with. Because, you know, people's ideas aren't gonna match your own and your own headcanon but that's why it's great. Because where there's-- where there isn't any overlap, you can grow to understand a character from a completely different perspective, like I-- my headcanon wasn't that Remus was into drugs, but I can totally see that now. And, and I sort of. And I want to read more about that character, you know? And this, this probably, like, branches off into a discussion about how much of character is set and how much is, how much can you you change it, but I really, like I'm really interested by how much is is communal, and then how much is personal.

but and the communal part of fanfic is is another really wonderful thing, because it's so anti capitalist, it's so against the idea of intellectual property, and ideas being owned by certain people. And so much more in tune with, like, for the most part, like I was an art history major. So like, until the Renaissance, all of the art that people made was collectively owned. And then we have this Western idea that it belongs to one person and one name and that's their idea, their property, which, you know, coincided with the rise of like, the middle class and capitalism and, war, and so like, it's just, it's such a capitalist construct that like, these ideas don't belong to all of us. And I love I love that we all get to play. And it is, like, communal building of a character, I love the like the fandom ideas that like just get proliferated like the Hogwarts Eigth Year. That's genius! It's magical. It's so wonderful. I love that we can all write an eighth year fic. And it's not plagiarism or copycatting or anything like that.

Exactly. Because it I mean, a lot of us, obviously, we read certain things that we love, and it inspires us and we want more of it, and then we make it. And it's just, it's just sharing with one another. I mean, if I read something that I love, I'm gonna want to read more of it, even if it's written similarly, or slightly different point of view always shifts, depending on who's doing it. And I just, Oh, I love that so much.

And I feel like it's a better reflection of how humanity works. Like we as people evolve, and come to, you know, espouse different ideologies, philosophies, whatever. And I feel like fanfiction allows characters to evolve beyond the limits of you know, what canon sets. So the characters don't just end after book seven. Are only exposure to them isn't just what on those limited number of pages or whatever. It's, that's the starting ground for a lot of other great ideas. And I feel like that really, the world can open up so much because you have these shared elements that you can pull from in in a in a load of different directions and we could talk for, we could talk for weeks and still not, you know, begin to even crack the top of the iceberg and that that, to me is magical in and of itself. Because we you know, we aren't just static human beings, we're not just going to have the same opinions now that we will always have. And fanfic, I think for that reason, well it'll always be a great way to come back and reevaluate, and re interpret our analysis of what's going on with these characters. You know what they're going through, and why they're still important. God, I can waffle. [laughter]

And something, in regards to like fanfic In the fandom, especially for us, like on discord and who are writing and reading now, it's funny to see and discover, like, Nathan and I met and we're like, oh, yeah, we're both 31. And everyone's like, around 30 years old, because we were there when the books like started coming out, and we just haven't stopped. We're just like, yeah, this is literally who we are. And we'll probably we're gonna be 60 doing something, Harry P, but I, there's so many ships. So I've been joking with Nathan, but it's like, yeah, we're gonna be 80 still doing this podcast. So it's just, yeah, it's so much fun. And we can

And what would be so terrible about that?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. [laughter] oh gosh. So good. So we had mentioned the obviously raising Harry trope. Are there any other specific tropes that you really love when reading or writing?

I love fake dating? Oh, give me that fake date trope. Oh my goodness. And like the most contrived, ridiculous reason, sign me up. I love it. I don't know what it is. I mean, I haven't asked myself like, why is it the fake date? But like, oh, it always gets me

Now is that for Wolfstar? Or Dre or Drarry? or anything? Just in general?

I, for me, it works better with Drarry because there has to be something that like, you know, some some reason to get these two kids who hate each other in the same room.

Right to come together. Yes.

Whereas I feel like with Wolfstar they've grown up together. They know everything about each other.

It just comes down for them to like, just confess your feelings already, like. Serious. Yeah. James over here, like really Sirius, Sirius. my dude? Like what are you doing. Stop talking to me about it.

Yes. they just need the tiniest shove into the loving relationship. Whereas Draco and Harry need a great big shove.

Yeah, huge ass.

And And there was only one bed? A classic.

Yeah, absolutely. Yes, there was only one bed. There was only one class. Having to having to care for the fake baby together. I love the most contrived reasons to put people together. The they're like there are ones where, oh I read one where they get together because they both accidentally end up on the same Knight bus. And then I love how how farcical people's imaginations are. It's so it appeals to my to my inner inner sense of stupid. I love it so much.

Yes! And the more contrived it is the more romantic. You're like, they just want to date each other. Like there's, it's just like, Oh, it's just Oh, it makes a smile. [laughter]

Oh, and, and a couple of your fic obviously, that you reced and as I was going through your stuff, so you had mentioned you like AU. So you have definitely have some like non magic AU that you've written? And what draws you to the back to that. And what do you love about getting into something completely unrelated to I guess that's the original world?

Um, well, I knew First of all, I write a lot of self insert. So my main concern is not often like expanding the magical world. I love fics that do that. But in my own writing, I tend to I'm expanding my inner world, sort of at the Hogwarts world, so any situation that I can put them in, that helps me work through my feelings, it's sort of my goal. And especially, I'm Latina, and I live in the southern United States. So I live in a very heavily Mexican area. So that's my world, and I want my world to be part of their world. And I love the like radicalism of that act of like putting brown people in like the canon of Western literature we're often left out. So I love an AU for that reason because I can make them brown and and I don't have to think of contrived reasons for how this Mexican kid ended up in the Scottish wilderness.

Yeah! [laughter] Oh, yeah, for sure.

Cuz I don't think there are any unless I'm, unless I am just doing a really bad job of remembering. I don't think there are any like Mexican Hogwarts students are there?

No, not that we know of. I mean, maybe they're all in Hufflepuff.

Oh

Of course! Of coure they're all in Hufflepuff and Hufflepuff doesn't get enough credit.

Are you Hufflepuff?

Oh, yeah.

Ah, there we go. Yeah, I'm a Slytherin. [laughter] Nathan's a Ravenclaw.

I, yeah, I'm a raven.

That's why he's like, not to nerd out like, Okay, he's, you're gonna nerd out, like, just just start already.

I, yeah. And then I go off on big soliloquys that last for about 18 pages front and back. But we get there. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah yeah. But you make such a good point about like, representation. And is it like, Is it something that you do as a writer consciously? Or is it or has it evolved into, you just write what you see around you, and what you want to have happen to talk through, essentially what you're going through. And that happens as a byproduct of it.

Um, a little bit of both. Because I think more the second that, like, I just want to talk about what I'm going through and the things that are relevant to me in my writing. And so you know, those things are naturally going to include more diversity than what we see in the book. But it There is also an awareness that like other people want to see that content for themselves that like there are other brown kids out on the internet, who are like, Where am I in this story?

Yeah.

So it's, it's done mostly for me, but not without an awareness that like that's meaningful to other people. And that's a practice that's really necessary in our reading and writing,

For sure. Do you have any questions for us? Like, do you have anything that you want to pick our brains on?

I wondered, for you, like I, I include a lot of my Latina perspective, I wondered what things you guys, what perspectives you write from that are maybe not included in the original canon? Like, what do you what do you bring to the text that falls under that umbrella of diversity or inclusion? Or where do you Where do you not get to see yourself in the texts that you then bring yourself?

For me it's definitely mental health. I have bipolar disorder. So I have been in the-- you too? [laughter] So I've been in the darkest of dark, I've been in the highest of high. So to be able to dive into the really tough stuff, like stuff that's really hard to talk about, or really hard to understand or realize someone lives this for real, is really important to me. And that's why I really love I have so many emotions because of it like and there was a bunch of years of my life that I felt no emotion whatsoever, I'm sure you've, you know, that's you go through that of feeling so much or so little all at one time. And that's what I bring to all of my stuff. That's why everything I write is so deep and so heavy, because that is just I carry that with me all the time. And so I'm able to, because I've live it, obviously I can make it genuine for characters, and I believe it helps other people understand and feel things. And that's where it comes down to empathizing with a character you wouldn't normally empathize with. I mean, it's for the faceless that have been through things that you didn't live through and you didn't know or understand were something they had to live with. And this is what how they came out of it and survived it, I guess you could say so definitely the mental health side of things. Because that's, that's huge. For sure.

Yeah, I really relate to that.

So for me, I definitely have an interest in disability. So I use a wheelchair. I have grown up with cerebral palsy. And I feel like just from the perspective of so I'm and I'm gay as well. So you don't you don't grow up gay and disabled, without having without you Without developing a certain perspective on you know, what it is to be other or, you know, outside of the conventional sphere of you know, what is considered normal. And so for me, I'm really interested in perceptions of otherness, of alterity of the the sort of the fringe characters I love. I love anything angsty with a lot of emotional resolution. I love when we get to see, you know, what's happening with characters psychologically, that then can get them in a better place physically. I love it. I love all of that stuff. Because it's so like, I just think from my own perspective from living this life. I get to live my life day to day in a very different way than most people would. I think it's fair to say and I I enjoy it but I also it also leaves me curious for other perspectives constantly. As much as I'm all about channeling my own thoughts and feelings and what's going on with me, I love fanfiction, because it's like how do how do other people manage? How does? How does the other half live? You know, and it's given me such a curiosity for how do you how do you be other, but also be other in a way that's relatable to everybody? Because I was I had this discussion once, where I was like, the biggest human irony is that loneliness is such a universal experience. Right? So, so sorry, sorry. to be like really, be really heavy about it. But I sort of feel like that is a

We're all lonely.

Yeah. Yeah. But I sort of feel like that is a way that we that that's something that we instinctively know, but we don't really tend to examine. And I think that even like that, even something like that, fanfiction can take and do really well. So that's why I am interested in this. That's why I love hanging out in this world. It's not just because I get to talk to a bunch of amazing people. It's because because all of our stories matter and all of our perspectives matter of being in a in a sort of a world that understands that, is massively, you know, important and beneficial to me, and it just does my does my heart good.

Yes! Oh my gosh. Oh, well, this has been so much fun. I had such an amazing time. We are so glad you were able to join us. I mean, yeah, I said tangents happen. They completely happened! Wolfstar was there if you if you look closely, we did talk about wolfstar. That was here. That was the thing. But yeah, this is just like a piece of we're gonna be doing a series of Wolfstar episodes, just because it's a big one. And so many people love it. And I know that people wouldn't want to get enough of it. But yeah, thank you so much to BigBlackDog for coming on and talking all of this with us. It's been so much fun.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah.

Yay!

Yay! So to everyone else, most likely pretty sure the next episode will be Wolfstar. If it's not, I'm sure whatever it is, will be really good. [laughter] But yeah, so any of the stuff we talked about, or if you have any interest in looking into BigBlackDogs works, we'll put a link to their profile in the description. And I'm sure you can easily find them on Ao3. And we'll post a couple of the related fics that we sort of discussed on this episode too. So let us know your thoughts and we can't wait to hear from you. Send us a tweet @MagicalShipPod. emails are great too, CareOfMagicalShippers@Gmail.com. Thank you for listening and we will see you next time.

Hey,

Bye!

Bye!

These sign offs are always really awkward. I don't know what to say!

I'm like, here we go. Yeah, exactly. I do my best I do my best.

I ship it

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