1030-Thurs-062421-PR-BO-Driving Revenue Through Social - FINAL

7:38PM Jun 21, 2021

Speakers:

Nick Cicero

Julia Campbell

Keywords:

content

audience

brand

branded content

advertiser

julia

publisher

piece

people

data

partner

local

news

reach

social

year

happening

media

video

types

Good morning, everybody. I am so excited to be here at ONA this year. I wish I was in person. I'm sure that everybody wishes we were in person right now. But no, I guess we have the best thing, which is many days chock full of awesome, awesome discussion by so many different people. I'm Nick Cicero, I'm the VP of strategy here at can Conviva, a streaming intelligence company. So we measure streaming and social video for some of the world's largest brands and publishers. And in the news space, we work really closely with companies on both their social analytic strategy as well as their streaming video. So companies like abc news, national abc news, local, advanced local reach in the UK, CNN and others. So we work really closely with news organizations to help them grow their audience, and engagement through social, but also monetize all of their video content across any one of the different platforms that they're on, which is what we're gonna be talking about today. I'm super excited to have Julia Campbell with us. I've been following Julia on Twitter, probably about a year now I had written down in my notepad about four or five times to reach out to her at different times over the past year. And when this opportunity came up, I thought she would be the perfect person to join. So Julia, you are the general manager of the Branded Content Project, why don't you give a little introduction to anybody who doesn't already know you?

Hello, everybody. And thanks, Nick, for including me today. I appreciate it. I'm excited to talk with everybody today. A little background on me, I actually grew up on the the broadcast side of the business TV stations across the country working in news and production. About 10 years ago, I actually discovered the entire world of branded content, which is truly the merging of sales and news and content, and really being able to bring all those things together. The Branded Content Project, we're in our third year, we're working closely with media organizations, big small, all across the country, all different types of media organizations, really helping them facilitate and grow their branded content strategy as well that is their revenue. It is a joint collaboration between local media association, local media consortium, with funding coming from the Facebook journalism project, and we've learned a ton. And I'm excited to join you guys today. Just talk a little bit about what works and what doesn't, but branded content.

Awesome. I'm so glad to have you. And for everybody who is tuning in right now. Be sure to leave your questions in in the chat and then join us after for our live on to that that live q&a session. As soon as we're done with this, this session here to answer any of your burning questions that you might have on branded content that we're not able to answer today. So how we're going to take this is a little bit of a ping pong session and a general discussion between Julia and I, both of us have extensive experience working with different partners and customers with a little bit of different specialties. Conviva is very focused on data and insights and turning those into actionable packages for branded content. And Julia has a wealth of knowledge all across the board in terms of what's been working, what are the right strategies? How do you go and approach this and pitch this for different marketers that you might reach? And so we're going to talk a little bit more about that. We're going to start with some of the opportunity for branded content today. Why this is still a really huge opportunity that I think a lot of people aren't taking advantage of, talk a little bit more about some of the best practices that we've seen. And finally close a little bit with with a deeper dive into data and the data process that our customers will do today. And being able to use data to really identify those areas of opportunity to sell branded content. And then how to prove the value to attract and retain and win more business moving forward. So really excited about this. So why don't we just get right into it? Julia, why don't you talk a little bit more about the opportunity that you guys have been seeing in branded content, because it hasn't gone away.

It hasn't gone away. And we always laugh how this isn't a new idea, right? This has been around for decades, for probably 100 years branded content has been a piece of media organizations, revenue plans, and it because it's effective. So we did start to see a lot of growth in 2020. And we start to sort of ask them questions, why is there a bigger opportunity than we're even realizing? So we actually partnered with Burrell associates to do some research, we needed to find out, what really is the revenue opportunity around branded content? Why should we be paying attention to it? And is it growing? And it certainly is growing. What we found with the numbers through that research was pretty impressive. You see that upper right number there 63 billion. That was the content marketing opportunity to 2020. Through the research we do with Burrell, important thing about that number is it didn't take the same dive that a lot of other advertising methods took during the Coronavirus, it was pretty shocking actually, it held pretty steady. Because it is a good way to communicate longer form messages, which is what everybody needed during COVID. So the next question, obviously is is this going to continue to grow as we move forward. And that bottom left number says it absolutely is this is the year it is going to explode. So the small businesses that we surveyed, say content marketing is really gonna become even more of a priority in 2021. So this is the area where we know people are focused, businesses want to participate in this, they're looking to you for a solution. If you look at that bottom right number 50% higher brand lift for marketers to distribute their content with a publisher than when they publish on their own this is actually from Nielsen. So that that really is important, because that means that they need you. So it's not enough for them to write a blog post and put it on their own website, they need you for distribution, they need your audience. So it's a perfect opportunity to really help elevate what you can do for these local businesses. And it really provides some good information for your audiences. If you go on the next slide, you know, there's something that we always think and we know people ask a lot of questions like, well, isn't this something that agencies do? And so is this something we should get into, but this is absolutely the time for local media organizations to get into this movement. We know that the competition is there, but you really need to access this type of advertising. Your expertise and storytelling in distribution really gives you a competitive advantage over any kind of boutique content shop or agency to profit cut across the country. This is an incredible opportunity for local media organizations to really help local businesses and bring in a lot of revenue.

Yeah, and I think that if we talk about the social opportunity, in particular, it's even more. So if we click back and go back to some of the stats a 50% higher lift for marketers who distributed their content with a publisher versus their own, or small businesses making content marketing a priority. When we think about on site content, or in your own world, your own website, your own mobile apps, your own devices, I think that there's an inherent advantage. Because clearly it's very hard for a small business to become a publisher. So there's the idea of building audience. And the same goes for social as well. So you as media companies, as news organizations, or sports companies or media media businesses, you have this skill set, which is building an audience and and working with them and connecting with them and delivering them entertaining and informative value. That sometimes it's really hard for for brands to do, especially when you think about social media. And I'm sure there are definitely a lot of different levels of that. When we talk, we think about sponsored branded content, maybe you think about influencer marketing is probably one of the more common ways that a small to medium sized brand might think about collaborating with a company. But that takes a lot of work too you have to find the influencers you have to know that they're going to be in the right target audience or they're going to be in the right location where I want to build with, whereas publishers have been building this really close connected relationship on social platforms, even though it's not exactly your own channels, right, you still own that audience, which is I think what we were talking about, and that's so valuable to take an opportunity and bring that to advertisers, right? If you think about how difficult it might be for somebody who is a regional car dealership to have a thriving Facebook presence, it's going to be a whole different conversation than what you as maybe a regional publisher can provide in terms of let's say setting up a really cool dedicated car meet up weekly, and having that dealership come and sponsor and in creating content or going and finding stories and the community and being able to surface that back up and talk about the guy who's got the the 1960s Corvette, one of a kind and it's in your town. So being able to do the types of things that publishers can do is actually extremely hard for brands, because it's already hard enough for them to come up with the content to publish to their social channels, let alone build a real consistent strategy, especially as you move out of the tier ones, as you move into any other brand that isn't a large national brand, or with an agency, like you mentioned before your value becomes even more important to that advertiser. So that's a good kind of transition, to talk a little bit more about what branded content is. It's really important for the advertiser to know that this is that differentiated way to connect with a targeted audience, part of a well balanced media plan, it's part of a well balanced media mix. It's also a great way to get incremental reach versus other places that they are advertising, in particular, their own social channels. But even more importantly, being able to do incremental reach in and around other offerings that you as a publisher might have, so social branded content packages are a great way to extend the inventory that you have to offer. So instead of just offering somebody, a branded content series that lives on your own website you can offer them that branded content series on your website, but then also include a number of those videos that should go live on Facebook or on Instagram or on YouTube, or a supplemental piece of content that's related to that larger piece of content that may live on your website. This is really an advantage for both sides for the advertiser to be able to buy more within you and for you to be able to sell them more, which I think is something that everybody wants to be able to do is find more quality things to sell to our partners to continue to expand the value. And the last piece is really to authentically connect with these like minded communities, like we just said before, you know, local publishers are, and I have a lot of personal sentiment attached to this, my very first internship was with the Democrat and Chronicle in Rochester, and that local regional news organization is really one of the centers of the community, and you don't have to be a TV network, you can be a quote unquote newspaper publisher and you still have a huge stake in the community. Those local spheres of influence it's really hard to match. If you think about some of the discussions we've had with our partners, and you go to a market like Cleveland or Dayton, Ohio, and if you're a regional brand in those areas, you're going to be hard pressed to find a an influencer that's gonna just be so local, that's going to deliver the right type of impact, the best influence areas, there's the local media community, that's what the community points to. So for that advertiser, I think it's something that we oftentimes forget is people are consuming their news on social. So they're probably following all of your local media channels. It's a great way to reach that audience. From the publisher perspective I think we've kind of covered this, it's a great way to monetize your social following, it's a great way to build additional inventory and extend the reach of your existing campaigns. As we'll talk about in a few examples, you can actually use branded content to help fund storytelling, new markets that you may want to cover, new topics that you think your audience is interested in, or experiments that have paid off, that may expand into something bigger as well.

Absolutely agree. The power of the local media brand. And those media teams and their trusted brand safe name is really important. So lots lots of opportunity.

Let's talk a little bit more about the process. Feel free to add in some of these things we can talk about them a little bit more in detail. Typically we see this kind of three step process which is, you need to know who you're reaching and what you're selling to them. So understanding what's the audience who's consuming this type of content for the different verticals or ideas that you're going after, but then also your inventory and your reach. Julia you guys I think I've done a lot of work with being able to help publishers understand how to package and I think you guys even offer content that people can resell or relicense. What are some of the things that you're seeing when people are starting to think about inventory development?

I think that we see a lot of teams that are really considering all their assets. So the foundation is obviously the content that's always going to be the base of what we're seeing as far as being a package for an advertiser. But then what other assets? Are you going to add in there? What arms of your social media audience are you going to add in for distribution? How are you going to utilize your digital channels, is video going to be a piece of this? So if you think about the basic concept being, what is that content piece, take something that's foundational, take something that's consistent and get some frequency there, then think about how you're going to add in some amplification, some distribution. And that's the one two punch that every is going to need, you know, things that are sponsorship, and also things that can be considered something custom for those clients. Those are the best two combinations of things custom distribution, audience all those things.

Absolutely. The next thing after you understand what you're doing is you got to go and sell it. So your need to understand how to package a compelling pitch deck or rate sheet for that person, and then go out and actually meet with them. Understand what's that value that you can deliver. So it's all about value creation. And definitely when it comes to selling to a brand you want to think about the value creation, and also the opportunity cost, I guess those are the two big areas. So what is the additional value that we can create for you by you partnering with our audiences? And then what's the opportunity cost if you don't? How much would it cost you to go and reach these types of viewers in social, you might have to spend a lot of money on Facebook ads, and rely on your own level of sophistication to see if you can reach that audience. Or you might have to create your own content, right, which is obviously time consuming, and it's expensive. Then you have to really think about how to activate that. Especially like I said, not every business is going to have a dedicated social and content team or marketing team the same way , even though we all know how common place social marketing is today, in the course of businesses obviously a lot of the types of people, especially people here on the ONA, in the audience, you're gonna have a really varying types of companies too, because at the same time that you have Bob's auto you're gonna have maybe an emerging DTC brand that just happened to come out of your region or a startup that's coming out of your region as well. So there's lots of different levels of companies that you'll be talking to. Once again, it really does come down to those two key points. What is the value that we're creating for you as an advertiser through our audience? And what is the opportunity cost? What are you giving up? What would you have to do in order to be able to tap into that audience that we have? And then the last piece is the execution. So you have to make the content. Hopefully that's the fun part for a lot of folks because this is where you get to dig in and tell really cool stories and produce great content and start conversations with your audience. Yes, you're doing it under funding from a brand or an advertiser but at the same time, it's valuable no brand just wants to have their logo slapped on the screen. I was joking about that. This week if you think about sponsored content product placement, native content and this week, the Euro Cup is happening. First you had Christian Renaldo come on and basically take all the Coke bottles off of the stand, I think Coke's stock price drops significantly as a result of that. One or two days later, they had I think it was Paul Pogba and there's a Heineken and a water bottle and he moved the Heineken bottle off. I kind of joke to myself, first off four drinks on your workstation is too many, it's a recipe for disaster. But secondly, maybe that's not such a good product placement. Or maybe that's not such a good packaging to be able to go in if it's not really aligning, if people are just coming off the field, and you want to do a press conference with them and you want to stick a bottle of Coke or a bottle of beer. Julia, you and I may go out and play a game of softball or crack a beer after I would say I'm not looking for that type of placement when I'm thinking about the beer that I'm going to drink. But maybe they have some data that shows otherwise but the backlash I don't think is very valuable. This is a good transition because when we talk about types of content and areas to do this, everybody's going to be different. We have a lot of our customers that have regional sports teams that they work with college teams, minor league teams, pro teams, and those types of events. Those live events, those Q and A's are great. Conferences are really valuable pieces of inventory to. So thinking about what is the right way to incorporate a partner within that I think is is super valuable. Let's talk about some approaches for for branded content. Julia, what are some of the things that you guys are recommending to your partners today?

Honestly, everything that you talked about on the last slide there is that the first piece there sponsorship versus partnership. It's the biggest recommendation we have is you're looking for long term recurring monthly revenue. In order to do that you need to really partner with these brands. That's kind of how you get out of some of these issues where maybe it isn't a good fit is that you think of them as a partner, you're going to lend them your brand and let them have your audience need to think of them as a long term strategic partner and spending your own journalism. So how do you bring in in a sponsorship way, but really just think of them as somebody that is going to help you create the content that your audience is looking for. I think the more you think about branded content sponsorships in that capacity, that much more successful your content is going to be it's gonna be better for your audiences and better for your advertisers. If you have video there too that's something that we're seeing is absolutely essential the video content is something that is engaging, it's sight, sound, motion, emotion. We know that that's going to be more engaging for your audience, it's a great way to communicate. We've seen tons of research on the importance of video. I think the quicker you can get into thinking through how are we going to produce some video pieces for our social channels? How are we going to embellish our content with something that moves I think is going to be pretty successful, and platform- specific, multi platform, so you can kind of jump into that too. You got to use all your platforms you got to think through creating content for something that is platform specific that utilize all your assets, all the eyeballs you guys have access to.

I think that the video is a huge piece that we've seen grow significantly. I think a lot of these social platforms really are becoming video first. I was on a different presentation yesterday with more of a brand focused audience. We we did a quick look with Conviva we're tracking 40 50,000 Public Accounts across media, news, sports, entertainment brands, public figures, athletes, celebrities, influencers. I just did a quick look at 2900 brands that we already have in the system today. They've actually increased their output of video by 30%, just from the last six months of 2020, into this year. So we know that the appetite for video content is increasing, but it's also costly, even though the costs have come down significantly, the cost to produce the video and then deliver it to an audience that is repeatable and consistent, can be very expensive. Sure, you might be able to make a cool video as a brand. But then once again, am I gonna be able to get anybody to see it? Or am I gonna have to pay Facebook or we're gonna have to pay YouTube. So I don't just have 45 views on a video on my YouTube channel. I think video is also really valuable because of the immersive component of that. Off platform or off social when I go into my own site we have a lot of other metrics, we can measure the scroll depth, the time on the page that they're spending with an article, the path in the interactions that they take on our own site. But on social, if you just put that link if you're just posting a link to your sponsored article that's nice. Or if you just have a photo series, that's one way to look at it. But it's really hard to measure and quantify the amount of time that's being spent with that particular piece of content. How many times have you just scrolled by a post in your Instagram feed and never scrolled back to it. But if you have a video that might get you to stop, am I at least getting somebody to stop for three seconds or longer, and then being able to provide that immersive experience. I think that's really important too, because you have to fit the partnership and content with the brand. You're going to have all these different ways that you can go and you have all these different ways that you can create content for people, but it depends on the goals and the KPIs that they have. So if that brand wants a lot more exposure, if they want to be featured more, they want to have much more of a presence maybe you need to integrate them deeper into a video series so they can be on screen longer and get more screen time. But maybe they're really interested in underwriting a channel with advanced local, I think that'll be our next slide. We have one of our customers' advanced local who were able to open up the funding of brand new content channels especially around the sports vertical, being able to have brands that are willing to fund social content that's dedicated to a particular college sports team, for example, is able to allow their team to basically go and hire new people and bring in new resources that then can be shared across the whole sports organization to be able to build a better audience strategy. Really valuable there. let's run through some of the best practices that we've seen for branded content. Then we'll wrap with a little three step process that we show our clients when they are using data for branded content. Let's dive into it.

Jumping into a couple of these we want you guys to focus on your audience so you're not selling them a piece of content, you're not selling those clients piece of content, you are selling your audience. So the more that you think that through, the more you realize the importance of your distribution channels, the more you realize that it's a long term campaign, it isn't just about that one article, that one video it is about your audience. It's about creating some unique value propositions, what can you do that no one else can? What types of content verticals? Can you create that that no one else can do? That's what really creates some value for those advertisers. And then some value and scarcity to the most success we're seeing are people offering some sort of exclusivity to those sponsors, something that is something they can own. Ownership exclusivity those are really important and create some sort of scarcity. They feel they need to act and participate and partner with you. Transparency and disclosure we know we need to be brand safe. We know we need to be very honest with our audiences. Transparency and disclosure is always Top of Mind and needs to be a focus as you're building out branded content. As you're pitching this, make sure you're showing examples. You got to show examples of what this content is going to look like, what is their sponsorship going to look like? They need to see it it needs to be live it needs to be something they can see. Nick, you've got some great ideas here on culture and lifestyle series.

I think that that's one of the things that always comes up when we're talking there's so many, quote unquote, hard news publishers and nobody wants to sponsor hard news. I think that the past four years, we've seen that quite a bit. That's a very big discussion as it relates to selling and monetizing social content around news. I think the important thing is that we know that people come on to the platforms, and they're obviously consuming news. We have a zillion Pew studies that will tell us that people are going to social media. But really the quality in the entertainment does come in the culture and the lifestyle areas. If you think about the areas aside from hard news that make up a community it's food, it's weather, it's sports, it's the schools in education, it's healthcare. There are so many other verticals that make up what a community is. The news is reporting on what's happening and uncover the stories but there are all these other little pockets of lifestyle. I know a lot of our partners have had success with looking at things such as, everybody wants to know what's great, where should I go? What should I do? What are some helpful and useful tips that I need that I can learn, it's summertime for example it's probably time to tune up your car, and here's a four part Car Series about things that you should do for your car, that is Bob's auto you need to buy a new car, come here, but if you're not ready, here's how to fix it. Take care of that. I think that you have to look to other areas of interest that are going to be in your life, your audience. I always think to my personal experiences. I remember when I used to read the newspaper there was this time where it would be hard news, but then there are so many other inserts and so many other sections that you can really dig into. I live in the Catskill Mountains outside of New York. So outdoors and recreation is huge. There's a local paper, the river reporter that covers the the small towns that are here in our little neck of the Delaware River. I'm in there I read that every week, I read it in the newsletter, I go to the website, I follow them on social because I'm interested in seeing the outdoor adventures and things that are happening in nature. There are all these other areas that that can be bubbled up to talk about. Even things that are national topics can be hyper localized. I'm just going way left field, but sneaker culture or cryptocurrency there's all these things that are happening. Cannabis is a huge emerging section. Most people forget about that cannabis brands. They can't run Facebook ads, they can't run Google ads, they have to actually partner with people to create content in order to get their message out. Because there's such a regulated industry, the outdoor industry, same way for fishing, ammunition, sports shooting, there's all these other types of categories that actually can't physically advertise using Facebook ads. That's actually a huge opportunity because these are really rich pockets of culture and lifestyle that people want to want to learn more about, that they're not going to be able to see through a Facebook ad or a Twitter ad. I think that you talked about this and brought this up as well go back to the archives. Every local media has probably such a rich set of historical information. I think people want to know what's old is new again. They want to see the things that have happened in the past, they want to be able to connect with pieces of history. That's perfect for sponsorship, because it allows you to tell these really great stories. It doesn't have to be very intrusive, the advertiser doesn't have to get involved. You can actually do some really, really cool storytelling that's underwritten by a brand that uses a lot of that archival content.

Absolutely gold in the basement you gotta go get it and repackage it, you can find a sponsor for that stuff. That bottom whitespace stuff that you just got to build something no one else is building.

Great. I just wanted to close by sharing a couple quick examples from some of our customers that really encapsulate a lot of what Julia and I have talked about today. First is somebody like advanced local, who has many local markets who have all of this rich connection with regional sports teams in particular. What they were able to do is really create this series, the Penn State Blitz, that they distributed across multiple different social platforms, and were able to really connect with the unique audience and grow the relationship with that advertiser. After a really successful first year, they were able to get them to renew and come on board for the next year. They did that by understanding that sports content across all of their accounts had been performing really, really well. They use that data to say our penn state football content is extremely popular, very engaging for a very niche market and we can actually go and bring that to an advertiser and start to expand more coverage around penn state football, which they ended up doing. The next example, a little bit more of a national brand, but they have pretty much regional advertisers. If you think about a sports team, they are working predominantly with a lot of the regional brands in that region. This encapsulates kind of that whole process that we've talked about today. So we started working with the dolphins about five years ago. They use Conviva social insights platform as really the centerpiece of that data. They developed a franchise first strategy. They built 10 different video series that they were using to anchor their fan engagement strategy but then they also wanted to take those 10 series and turn them into packages that they could go and sell to different advertisers and create supplemental content around those hero pieces of content. Using video and using our platform, they were able to identify the different audiences. This is the one piece that I think is super important as a news publisher you're going to be reaching a ton of different audiences every single day. People naturally gravitate to the things that interest them more and video is a great way to tell that I may see a very homogenous and generalized audience, if I were to look at my Facebook page analytics, or my youtube channel analytics. But if I were to drill down into a specific video series, I'll probably see that the audiences may skew in favor of a particular age or have a particular gender or a particular demographic. You might find that you can get an older, more female audience on Facebook, for example, and you might be able to hit a really young, maybe male audience on YouTube or vice versa. Whatever your brand is. The point is that different people watch different types of things on the exact same channels. Same thing I just mentioned, I tend to follow a lot of the outdoors related content with some of the news publishers that I follow. They post a lot of other stuff. But when it's a video maybe about a wildlife initiative that's happening in the region, I'm going to click in and start watching that video which means that there's a whole different type of person that is watching the content on your own on a single platform, but also even at different channels. You can actually think about how you break up those audiences and packaging them to sell to these folks. The Dolphins are really great success story because they took this approach and ended up becoming number one in the NFL in terms of branded content views. They're actually able to take all of these rich pieces of demographic across 10 key packages that they offered, and make a really clean, clear presentation to advertisers to be able to prove that value. This lends itself into the last piece that talks a little bit about data. But if you click the link to go to the chat with us next we'll definitely be able to expand on any questions that you might have. How data plays a role? I mean, data is is essential. I think that what Julia had talked about before is we know that as a publisher this is your expertise, your expertise is to build audience, to build community to deliver informative content. There's a lot of art and gut that goes into that being a great reporter, being a great journalist being a great storyteller. Data is not necessarily supposed to tell you everything of what to make, but it but it can be very strong in informing, and in convincing. Data is super important for those advertisers to be able to know, here's the audience that we can go and reach here's the amount of content and engagement that we can deliver for you with a set of videos on our different social channels. With our platform we make it really easy to be able to automatically tag all of your posts, your videos, your stories across Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, tik tok Snapchat, I'm probably missing some but being able to take all of that data and say here's a benchmark for all of the sponsored content that we might have made in the past. Here's the average engagement. The average views per video that we're able to make, here's the audience that we're able to reach. Here's our football vertical, or here's all of our food content. When we create content about food, here's the type of audience that's watching that and you Bob's auto, can come and reach that with us by partnering on a particular content vertical. Matching the advertisers to content, and then also for inventory management. Being able to know how many views per video you can deliver, or how many engagements proposed you can deliver is, is pretty essential for knowing how much can I go and charge for this, and what can I deliver, then you obviously make the content and you want to know where people are dropping off. Because if you go and sell a partnership for a 10 minute long video series, and people only watch for three seconds and drop off, that brand is not going to probably get much value sharing, maybe they got a lot of three second views. But how long is that brand recall going to really be it's probably very minimal. Being able to see where people are dropping off throughout the video, where people are dropping off throughout the story. This is also why video is such a powerful branded content tool for social, because it actually gives us a lot more data and context than just an image or just a text post you can get a lot more information and understand more about who's consuming the content.

Then the last piece is reporting. If you're selling all these campaigns you got to be able to bring that back in and easily and quickly be able to categorize and pull all of that data across all the different profiles that you might be distributing that to. Once again, with the Conviva platform our customers are going in every day, they're building recap reports for their partners and showing them the performance of that content, comparing it to the benchmarks for their organization or for the industry, and then being able to prove that additional value. Because it's one thing to sell a piece of content to somebody once it's another thing to get them to renew with you and continue to do business with you. That's really key is once again, like we talked about at the beginning of this session, to wrap this in a bow is it's all about that value creation. You need to be able to prove to your advertisers that you're creating value. I can't tell you this enough. I'm biased because we have an analytics company. But the data is one of the best ways to show somebody This is what's working, this is what's not working, and really cut through the noise when it comes to selling somebody's content.

We are just about to wrap up here. As we mentioned before, click the link below to go into the live room with Julia and I and we're going to continue the conversation there. But first, I just want to thank everybody for for tuning in today. I'm so honored to be able to finally - I wanted to speak at ONA for a lot of years, a lot of respect for this community. I think that it's so well connected. I've met a lot of people over the years who are associated with ONA. I want to thank Julia for joining because it's just been awesome to brainstorm and talk with her over the past few days about these different trends that are happening and about the strategies that she's working on. Before we wrap up, maybe Julia, any closing thoughts on the future state of branded content? Or where do we go from here?

It's growing. So let us help you figure out how to build something if you're not aready building, and if you're building let us help grow it. That's that's my closing statement and just appreciate being able to be included in this today.

Awesome. If you guys need anything or if you're interested in learning more about the the Conviva analytics products that we offer, I'd be happy to sit down personally with anybody that would like to so feel free to reach out to us and we'll definitely connect. With that, click the link below and join us for the live chat and we will answer any questions that you might have. If you don't have a great day, and thank you for taking the time to be with us today.