Welcome to the mending trauma podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Amy Hoyt. And along with my sister Lena Hoyt, a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, we want to help you recover from trauma, whether it's childhood trauma, complex trauma, PTSD, or any other trauma sustained from abuse or narcissistic relationships. We want to help you develop skills and ways that can help you to recover from the symptoms and the effects of trauma. We are so glad you're here. Let's dive in. Hi, Amy here, are you feeling stuck or overwhelmed by things that pop up in your daily life. And perhaps these are because of past traumas or toxic stress? Have you tried traditional therapy and found that it wasn't enough? I know that was the case for me. That's why we developed the whole health lab. Mini trauma has put together a program that combines the latest research with proven methods to help you recover from trauma and move forward from these daily stressors and triggers. We use somatic therapy EMDR, cognitive behavioral therapy and internal family systems therapy. We use nervous system regulation, and many other tools so that we can combine the best methods that are identified in the research to help you recover without being completely overwhelmed. So you can work on trauma on your own pace, your own time. And still with the mentorship and support of a highly trained certified staff. That's us no more waiting for appointments, or sitting in traffic driving to see a therapist with our online program, the whole help lab, you can access it from anywhere, anytime, even on an app, visit mending trauma.com backslash whole health lab and learn more, get your questions answered. We've got a Frequently Asked Questions section, and sign up so that you can have this life changing program in your world today. Don't let your past hold you back any longer. Take control of your future. And we can't wait to see you in the whole health lab. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode. We are excited to be here today. And today, we are talking about why we still have symptoms of trauma or see PTSD after we've been actively trying to heal for several years. So Lena, let's talk about why symptoms persist. What is that about?
Well, I think it can be really discouraging when this happens, and I can remember talking to my therapist years ago, and I had been working on a specific response that I had to a certain stimuli to stress. And I said to her, I've been working on this for 15 years, when do I get to stop? And she said, Well, since you're human, it's probably going to you're probably going to keep working on it. And I was so irritated not with her, but with the fact that I couldn't just like, make this be done and over. So since that time, as I've learned more about trauma and how symptoms develop and why they persist, I've been able to be a little bit more self compassionate and have more understanding about that. And symptoms persist because they're protective. And they get hardwired into our brain, a reaction gets hardwired into our brain, when we have a certain nervous system response. And at that point, we don't have a lot of conscious thought about it. It just happens automatically through our nervous system and our subconscious.
I think that's such a great point that these are responses that they persist because it's wiring in our brain. And I think this is one of the reasons the most emerging research shows that with trauma, talk therapy is not enough. And if you think about talk therapy, the the act of verbalizing what has happened to us, or the act of verbalizing our behavior around what has happened to us. It has its limits. One because we know that during a traumatic event, part of the speech area of the brain shuts down Broca's area. So it makes verbalizing very tricky. But to the more we talk about the details, it goes down that same wiring track. So we're not laying down new neuro pathways. So I think one of the first things we want our listeners to understand is that talk therapy is awesome and helpful, especially if you haven't yet identified why you've got all these symptoms. And it's not quite enough to simply talk about it even with a trusted therapist. We need to move beyond speech.
Correct? Yes. And as you mentioned that has been becoming more and more evident in the last several years. So being able to understand that part of the reason we may not have been able to resolve some of our symptoms is because we're actually not doing treatment that is designed to include the body. And if we don't include the body, then we've got a problem with nervous system regulation. And the body remembers the event. Even if our conscious mind doesn't.
Absolutely, it's almost like an imprint on our body. And so and we're not conscious of the imprint. So I had a friend call me the other day, and she said, I'm in the emergency room. And with a family member, and I am having a reaction, because one year ago, she was in that same emergency room, that same exact room in the ER, with another family member that had a lot of seriously traumatic events happen during that hospital stay, and her body was having a reaction. She's like, I know, we're okay. Now, this other situation a year ago has resolved itself we're good. I'm, I'm having a reaction. And I think that is such a clear example of how we are imprinted on our body when we have a traumatic event that we're not even aware. So we get in the same environment, or we smell the same thing, or we hear the same thing. And we're transported back. And until we go into the body and deal with that imprint, that cellular memory, we are not going to be able to move through it as effectively.
Absolutely true. Your your comment about how it gets wired into us or becomes an imprint is really helpful, I think, because it can also be called a survival wire. And when that survival wire gets laid down, it's usually laid down in terror. And so if we can start thinking about our symptoms as having them protective, then we can be more of an observer of what our behavior or symptoms are. And that can help us stay more connected to our prefrontal cortex and out of our fight flight freeze fawn responses. So the symptoms have been protective, there were a reason for them. And if I can see the symptoms of as having been protective, then I don't need to beat myself up because I'm having symptoms.
Absolutely. And this reminds me of the book unbroken. And her name escapes me. It's Mary.
I think it's Mary Elizabeth McDonald, me. Yeah, Mary
Elizabeth McDonald. Thank you. So the book came out in I think, 2023, it could have been 2022. It's called unbroken. And she talks about how our trauma responses have done exactly what they were supposed to do, which is help us survive. And in that sense, those trauma, those survival wiring that, you know, wiring that you're talking about, has functioned exactly how it's supposed to, so that we can get through it. And in that sense, it's a strength because it did its job. Correct. And when we start to look at our responses as effective and doing their job, and as a strength, I think that makes noticing without judgment a lot easier.
That's a good point.
We know that when we notice what's happening in a loving way without judgment, and you call it benevolent curiosity, which I absolutely love that phrase. But we notice when we use that, that we are able to develop a kindness to ourselves that allows us to be the observer. And when we're the observer, we're out of the limbic fight flight, part of our brain and able to connect back to the prefrontal cortex, which is where we make our wise decisions and where we are able to understand logic and reasoning.
Yes, exactly. In addition to noticing our symptoms without judgment, I think this is another thing that really pops up up a lot when I'm working with clients, whether it's coaching or in California, where I'm a therapist, is that there tends to be a lot of despair. When we have an A symptom pop up again, maybe we've gone several days or weeks or months without the symptom popping up. And so there's a part of us that thinks great, I've put that to rest. I'm done with that behavior. I'm done with that symptom. And so when a symptom pops back up, it's really important to stay out of despair. When a symptom or an old behavior pops up, it does not mean that you're starting back at square one. And that's almost impossible for the human brain to understand that does not mean that I have made no progress and does not mean I'm starting completely over from scratch. What it means is that we were in a certain emotional state, and in that emotional state, the symptom popped up to protect us. It's no longer adaptive, but the brain is doing what it was supposed to do.
And that's such a great point that we haven't lost all of the hard work and all of the new wiring, it's really about new wiring we've laid down. And so when we say, you know, a symptom popped up, and I just went back to square one, it's actually completely scientifically inaccurate, because we've actually laid down new tracks, we just our brain in that moment, is preserving energy and went for the deeper, easier track. And so I love that explanation. I think the other thing that happens when we have symptoms pop up is, like you said, a sense of despair. And what I hear a lot with my clients is questions like, How long will this take me? Why, you know, how long until I can be recovered from these traumas, whether it's complex trauma, childhood trauma, or a traumatic event? And the answer is, honestly, every person in every situation is different. And there is no timeline. And in fact, when we focus on the timeline, I think that can add additional pain to our journey. Because then absolutely, we've set our expectations up. And if it's not being met, then it creates a story about why I'm not healing on on time, quote, unquote,
yes, yeah. Well, and then I also think about how when we, well, in America, we're terrible at this, but when we have a physical injury or an illness, it requires rest. And healing requires a lot of rest. And a lot of times, people will have the symptom of Go, go, go, go, go, go go, high achieving, doing everything, managing a million different plates in the air. And so when you're in the process of healing and recovery, and you have the opportunity to relax a little bit, take a break, slow down, that actually the slowing down can actually ignite that fight flight freeze response in your brain, and can make you jump right back into the old dynamic and the old speed. Because the calm or the slowness, or the resting actually feels dangerous to the brain.
And so I think I've seen this as well with clients. I think the key is, of course, again, that benevolent curiosity, why am I really dysregulated? As I slow down, so really helpful question. And then the other piece is just being aware when, when I was starting to heal. And I got to the point where I was learning about the nervous system, which was years after I did lots of talk therapy, when I realized that resting could cause dysregulation because it was so foreign, it was helpful to know that that could be coming up. And sure enough, it did pop up. I was bored. My brain was constantly scanning for something to focus on. It took a lot of work to allow the slowdown and allow the rest without feelings of inadequacy, because of an identity that was built on productivity. And so knowing that that could be part of what you encounter, I think can help when when it does show up? Absolutely.
Yeah. And I remember listening to Huberman podcast a couple of years ago. And he talks about how hard it was for him to slow down when he first started doing his work, and that he had this combination of ADHD and then whatever else was going on with his nervous system. And he talked about somebody that he worked with, I think in his late teens, and that person, that mental health provider encouraged him to find a way to sit for two minutes without doing anything and without moving. And I might not be remembering all the details correctly. But the impact on me was that we have to start small. And as we start Small, we start to set up those new neural pathways. And the more we practice, the stronger those neural pathways are. So there's less distress in the moments of rest, the moments of slow down, that sort of thing.
I think that's a great piece of advice is to start with micro step, which is what? We are all about small steps, because they add up and they're incredibly impactful. And the brain doesn't go into danger alert, because you're not making too radical of a change all at once. Right? Yeah, the brain is less resistant to small changes. Yeah, absolutely. One of the other things. I know that when we are wondering, why haven't I healed yet. So we've talked about looking at therapies that include the body. And we just to call a few out EMDR, somatic experiencing, there are somatic practices, EFT, which is tapping, we have internal family systems therapy, which is super impactful. So there's all these different types of therapies besides talk therapy, that we want to encourage you to look at. And the other piece is that we really want to let go of the timeline, as we talked about. And I remember when I was first getting sober, I can't remember who told me that was probably my sponsor. But basically, if we can, instead of focusing on this is a linear journey with a start and finish, if we can fall in love with the process of becoming our, our most connected, and loving self reconnecting to ourselves and to others, we are going to be able to let go of that timeline and actually find joy in the journey of healing, because healing is going to look very much like with peaks and valleys throughout our life. And if we stop our life, or if the only or main focus of our life is on healing, we're actually missing out on the joys of life. And so if we fall in love with this process of healing and recovering, those peaks and valleys are just woven into our every day into relationship building, or, you know, family life or even our work life. And it becomes, I think, a lot less dangerous because we're also having multiple glimmers along the way.
Yes. And Amy in our program, the whole health lab taught us a little bit about glimmers a few months ago. This comes out of work by Deb Dana, and polyvagal theory. And glimmers are the same thing. I think about them as Joy points, which I learned out when I was doing emotional brain training, and joy points are glimmers are times during the day that you can find something pleasant or interesting or you get into the present and notice something around you it can be an interaction, it can be something in nature. And when we are able to identify and be purposeful and intentional in finding those times or points, we start to rewire our brain to be more familiar with being in a place of neutrality internally or calm or peace or happiness. And that is super valuable
it is well that is why you still have symptoms because it's hard work. And you are amazing for doing this work. And it Yes, eventually you'll look back and you'll think I am so radically different. But as Lena and I talked yesterday, and as you've mentioned, a lot of times the brain is terrible at noticing progress, especially incremental progress. But we promise that if you stick on this journey, you will turn back at some point and be floored by how effective it is to do your work and to break these cycles and these trauma responses while loving learning to love yourself. dutifully said Amy, thanks for joining us and we will see you next week. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of The mending trauma podcast Lane and I are really grateful that you spend time with us each week we know you have a choice and that time is currency. We would love if you would share this episode on social media and tag us so we can reshare if you feel so inclined, go and give us a five star review wherever you listen to pods so that we can get the word out and help more people. We know that we are all working hard on our mental health and we wish you great success this week in implementing these new skills We'll check in next week
