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Hey, I'm Jon.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. B, our friend's in the house.
Our friend is in the house and I can I tee up this conversation with a funny little ops story real quick. There was a time when you know Jon and I we think we know some stuff about nonprofit. We've worked in this business for about 20 years. But there was a time when all of our gift processors left our organization and John and I the two annual giving folks found ourselves batching gifts for a month and working in the ops world. And I can tell you, we didn't know squat about UPS then we only know a little bit more now. And so we bring the big guns into the house. Yep. All the respects though, because oh my gosh, I know. This matters more than that months. So friends, we are bringing back our dear dear friend and the ops queen of our hearts. Germaine Guillaume. She's with visionary accounting group. And you might have remembered her she's got an incredible good guide in Pro that is one of the most disruptive classes on how to reimagine the way that you operate. Your nonprofit. She's also been on the podcast before and we go to her because she has such an evolved mindset about how to use tech, how to really make your operations progressive and work for you so that you're not working so hard to input and extract. So let me give you a little bit of background on Germaine she's the CEO and founder of visionary accounting group. She's an entrepreneur at heart with a passion for numbers. And she founded her own firm in 2015. And she's been helping business owners leverage technology as a means to gain deeper financial insight and real time data. And one of the little hallmarks I love about you, Germaine, is you lead this company in recouping over $2.8 million and receivables for other nonprofits just through simple workflow automation and accounting system conversion. So she is making ops more simple. And today, we're gonna be breaking down the habits of an impactful operations team. But before we do, I just want to give a little more insight into Germeen because we love her so much. She's an avid traveler, she loves reading, she is passionate about educating others on financial literacy. She is an amazing mama. And I want to say you're, you're also a background singer for an American Idol winner.
Talking about the things that matter on this.
Exactly. Hi, friend.
Hi. So good to be back. I missed you guys.
You too, it's so good to see you.
And you know, Germeen, we're like in the middle of this habits of an impactful fundraiser series. And when we set out to do this, we were just had this idea that we wanted to kind of go through the different functions of the office and really have like a 2.0 conversation of like, how do you get in the right mindset? How do you get in the right habits to do your job like incredibly well. And when we're talking ops, I'm just like, there's only one person we went to go to to get away. So I mean, as we toned set, you've come on the podcast, we love your story and how that's like informed but now you've worked with so many organizations, that's given a lot of additional color to your story as well. So I just want to start this habits conversation specifically around asking a better, bigger question. You know, we're really challenged people to get right about what are you really trying to accomplish? So as we think about like, the operations role, what is the big question that we should be trying to answer about how we're showing up in the work that we're doing?
So I think sometimes we have to kind of take a bird's eye view. So getting out of the day to day and really determining, right, what is it that each function needs to be doing and how do those functions work together? So I think when people hear operations, we all we automatically kind of think like admin work, but it really is a bit more high level and it really touches all of the functions or areas right in nonprofit. management. So, you know, I think that when you're thinking about what are we really trying to do here? It should be like, how can we make this organization run better, more efficiently, right, and get things done to where we are not burning ourselves out. And that operations really is the key to that
right out of the gate. That is such good town setting. Because I mean, without our operations, we're just in the spin cycle. And there's no way we can keep up with all of this data with all these entry points, we can't aggregate what's actually happening in the background. And so I want you to take us to three daily habits or actions for success in this role, what would be the three that you would break down for us?
So the first thing is like, what is the role like I think all too often we start hiring, and we don't have clear roles and responsibilities. So again, because operations is so often synonymous with admin, we have to be very careful not to just have a glorified administrative role, right. And so we need to be very clear on what the roles and responsibilities of that operations person at this role what this is, the second habit would be right, tapping into all of the, the department heads the function heads. So what I find happens is that everyone's kind of operating in silos, right? So there needs to be a lot more collaboration. So one of the things that we like to suggest organizations do is on a consistent basis. And this is a habit, right? All department heads need to be meeting at at the very least monthly, if not weekly, right, depending on the size of the organization, because that's how we share information. So me as the ops person, I can then know, like, if you're doing something over here, but it never reached development or programs, I can actually say, Okay, so there's a disconnect that we have going on here, but I will ever know, if you're working over here, you're working over here, and you're working over here. So another habit would be there has to be some consistent collaboration across the board. And the third habit, which I guess is a little bit of a habit and more of a of a tip, but there should be a centralized place, location, something where we can go and we all have visibility into what's happening in the organization, because that also is letting me as Operation person know, right? Is this actually really working? Well, when I need certain information? Can I go and get it and pull it? If not, something is wrong, right? Do I know who I need to go to? And if not, what's going on with that? Where does something lie? Right? If I know that there's a project or something we're working on? Where does that lie? If I don't know there's a disconnect. And so I think those three habits are a really good starting point.
I mean, we're I love where you're already taking this conversation. A is development is a team sport, you know, and like, I love that this brings this conversation really brings that to light, because the second you start neglecting the pieces that maybe aren't forward facing better behind the scenes, it's when the whole ship starts to crumble. And we've definitely seen that for a long term relationships with donors, like it's almost impossible, if you don't have your back of house, you can't create the stewardship experience or any of the experience without that. So thank you for that. Secondly, I think you talked about clarity of like roles, but also responsibilities and like, just clarity of what's happening. And I just think like, as you try to start to apply that into how you show up daily, what are the relationships that start to get prioritized, because ops kind of has to know what's what's going on? Everywhere? How do you prioritize your time, and where you spend time building relationships in that lane.
So I think a big part of the operations role is really fostering internal relationships, because a lot of what they do is, you know, in some cases, people will consider the operations person, right, like the heartbeat of the organization, they are meant to keep things running and running well. And so when I think about some of the relationships that need to be prioritized, right, I need to be able to support that executive director, right, they are the leader, they are driving the organization. So that absolutely needs to be a relationship that's prioritized, also, because I need to be privy to what they need to be able to run the organization well, because that also dictates part of my job, right? So if I'm supposed to be giving you financials on a consistent basis, but I don't know that and then you go, where's the last month's financials? And I don't have them, right, there's a disconnect here. So absolutely, you know, prioritize in that relationship. And then also the users, right? So for the external users, right, so thinking about like your board, thinking about the people that support the organization. So those funders, those donors, right, because transparency is a big piece, right? of, you know, people wanting to give and a lot of times if there is any confusion about us not being able to operate well about us operating in chaos, a lot of times that deters people from wanting to give. And so I think it's important for us to know like, what are these users of this information, want to see what is it that they want to know because that also drives A big part of my job and making sure that they have that, that information. So that right they can continue to give. And then lastly, I would say like department heads, right? Because I am usually connecting the dots between them. And so I need to make sure that I know who these people are, I know what the their individual goals for their departments are, I need to know what the hiccups are to like, where are things broken? Where are things not working, because typically, I will be the person that will either be coming up with a solution, or I'll be sourcing the solution. So I need to be aware of these things.
You said something really powerful there. And I want to make sure that nobody misses it germane. You talk about transparency, and clarity. And the reality is, I think one of the most common misconceptions about donor trust is people think that it's really driven from the fundraiser on the front line and the in the person driving the relationship. But I agree with you that if you don't have incredibly sound back end, you know, accountability, transparency, you're gonna have no donor trust at all, because I don't care how good that forward facing gift officer is, if we're not reporting out on the gift, appropriately, the amount where it's going, what the impact is, if we can't track that, then that makes not only the relationship suffer, but the brand suffer. And so that's why I think operations to your point is maybe the heartbeat, the underpinning of everything, because trust starts to build, the second we take your gift, we, you know, receipt it and use it well, because that's going to inform the next gift. So thank you for bringing that home.
Ya know, I think, um, you know, whoever that front facing officer is, it's important for them to be confident, but really, it's, we want that donor to have confidence in the organization, right. And so if they don't deem the organization trustworthy, it doesn't matter how confident that individual person is. And that's also why I've sort of been expanding how we talk about things and what we do from a professional standpoint, because while financial operations is a big part, I noticed like a lot of what we do touches so many other areas, outside of just fiscal and finances. And so that's why it's important, like overall operations has to be in tip top shape, because it keeps the organization running well. And again, it instills that trust that we know what we're doing, we can steward these funds, we can tell you where they're going the impact we've had, because if not, why would you want to give.
Taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, who also happens to be one of our favorite companies Virtuous. You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you both see and activate donors at every level. And Virtuous is the platform to help you do just that. It's so much more than a nonprofit CRM. Virtuous helps charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, volunteer management, and online giving. And we love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized engagement. Sounds like Virtuous might be a fit for your organization, learn more today@virtuous.org or follow the link in our show notes.
Taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, slingshot group, our friends over at slingshot group partner with nonprofits to recruit and hire great leaders build remarkable teams and unleash your missions potential. You know, we talk often about how much your organization's culture matters, especially today. And not just being a place that attracts talent, but also becomes a magnet to connecting donors to your mission. Slingshot group is the organization we trust to help you do just that. It's so much more than a staffing and executive search firm, slingshot group goes deep and get to know your culture so they can help you find the leaders and staff who will take your mission to the next level. Sound like slingshot group might be a fit for your organization. Learn more today at slingshot group.org or follow the link in our show notes. I want to jump in and say it sounds like we're almost one sided saying operations needs to build these bridges and these relationships. And it's like, Hello development. This is on y'all. Because we were on the forward facing side. And you're probably most inclined to accidentally leave the operation side out of this or at least I don't know, that was it's easy to do whenever you're kind of talking to people and trying to make connections.
Yeah, it's the backend, right? And nobody thinks it's sexy, right? And so when you think about back in HR, you know, fiscal, like some of these, these areas where the work is very important, but it's not really seen. A lot of times I think we forget like no, we still have to tap into these things because it still contributes to the whole right and so back in has to be organized because if you operate in chaos, it's so good to bring in, you know, all of this funding but then when we have it, are we managing it Well, are we spending it on the right things? And, that's where operations comes into play.
Yeah, and just the strength of the internal trust has got to be there. Because as you're talking, I'm thinking about a couple of scenarios in my career where a donor would say, I want this gift to be anonymous, or I don't want any mail sent to me. And it's like, I remember the trepidation of like, we just sent a big mailer out, okay? Is the do not solicit code in there, okay, the do not mail code is in there. And it's like, if you don't have that trust and reciprocity, between ops and what your donor is telling you, then you're gonna live in the fear, which I feel like I had some point, God bless our ops teams. Okay, I want to transition into my favorite segment called do this not that. And we want you to kind of unwind some of these long held myths, and talk to us a little bit about, you know, what are some of these things that we should be doing? And what are the things we need to be letting go of break it down for us.
So when I think about some of the things that we should be doing, first of all, first off, we have to, we have to have a goal, right. So if we're thinking of the gift officer, you know, the person on the front lines, who is going after the funding, you absolutely should be setting a goal. And you should also be communicating that to your operations, your fiscal staff or your fiscal person, right? What you should not be doing is going after funding without knowing all of the stipulations and requirements that are going to be attached to that funding, or to those funds, because what ends up happening is that sometimes, it's great to actually get the Yes, and get the money. But then there's so much work that comes in on the back end. And who does that typically follow up your ops person or your ops people, right? So we always want to be considering bandwidth, right? We always want to consider bandwidth. Second thing is, we always want to get, we always want to have those conversations with a donor about where should these funds be going isn't restricted, is it not right. And then the second part of that kind of like what you just mentioned, Becky, we then also need to be communicating that to our operations. Because if it's supposed to be spent on scholarship, we need to know that so that we're not out here just enriched, you know, spending these unrestricted funds on, you know, God knows what, right. So I think when I think of do this, that it really is drawing a hard line in the sand about what do our policies and procedures, say, which is what should be built out right around those operations, and making sure that we follow that, but also making sure that staff are aware of what those actual things are another ado, let's get some documentation happening. And it can't be pen and paper. But we have to have a solid way around. We're documenting things and communicating things so that there's visibility into what's going on. So if we are using a tool, which we all have visibility, and that means when someone that gets officer updates, something, I can also still go into that tool and see what's going on and what's happening. If not, they could be making major waves. But when I you know, if someone were to ask me where things that I'd have no, I'd have no clue. And so we want to make sure that we are operating based off of policies and procedures that I have actually been set, right and required for us to follow and making sure that it is visible to all so that there is no one working in silos. And as far as a don't do, right, because I think, I mean, we don't like to harp on the negative, but I think it's really important like we shouldn't, without having conversations right with with your operations, people, we should be very careful about what we're communicating to the donor, because sometimes I think we're overzealous, or we can be really excited. And so I would say we don't want to do too much pumping up or hyping up to the donor, right? Because a lot of times I think sometimes it becomes desperate, right? Or sometimes we're just trying really hard, but then that has negative consequences for the organization. And so we just want to always make sure that we're in line, I think that's just that takes a step back and talks about strategy, making sure we're on the same page, making sure that before you make any moves, everyone should know what their role is in this thing. And if not, then we need to be going back to the table. Yeah,
I mean, I'm seeing the same kind of lines across this whole conversation, but the clarity really matters and the teamwork and collaboration, just everyone knowing what you're really trying to accomplish allows everybody to come creatively of how to do that. But without that clarity, you know, you really can't do that at all. So let's talk about KPIs because I feel like ops really typically loves their KPIs. You know, like what I want you to help us understand what are those key performance indicators that really matter in terms of operations and which are, you know, ones that maybe are less important, but they maybe get a lot of hype?
So I do think the KPIs we are going to be specific to the organization. But if we are thinking more on a granular level, you want to think about how should your ops team people person be working with the other organization? And what is the role when we are hiring or helping an organization hire? Typically, we like to build out KPIs literally by looking at the job description and determining what are we saying is required of this person? Because essentially, that should be leading how they should be operated. Right. So are we saying that there are certain reports that have to be delivered on time? What what is what is that timeframe? Right? KPI, right. So for us for an example, we know that our executive directors are expecting financial reports on the 15th of the month. That's the KPI right there. How often are we meeting that? Right? If a second part of that is, is certain information from us due to development? Is it due to you know, we work with organizations that like are buying buildings and providing housing to like the homeless? Right? So some of the funding that they're getting are is dependent on the information, the financial information that we are preparing, putting together? Is there a deadline on that? How often are we making that right? And then you want to think about the team aspect, right? So some of those KPIs are going to be specific to my interactions with different teams. So like, me working with the development person, I may need to give them a certain, you know, they might be doing the budget, right? They might be do what am I expecting that we're going to be bringing in? What am I saying is that gap so that they know what their number is that they need to be striving for? Right? So I when I think of KPIs, I think about what's going to be important for my role for me to do the right job, and how that relates to those people. So I would say if you're hiring someone, or even if you're, you know, you have that internal person, you're like, let's press reset. And think about the KPIs that we want to create. So that we can know if this person is being successful. Think about the role that you hired them for what was in that job description? Right? Are they supposed to be creating policies and procedures? Has that been done? What is it due date? How? How comprehensive? Is that? Right? Has that been been communicated? Right? Are we following it? You know, were there any breaches? We have something called like SLA rules, right? So if and if we're supposed to be or have development, right? We're supposed to be responding to donors or funders in a certain timeframe? Are we doing that? If not, a lot of times, we'll get an SLA breach, right? So that means like, something is going on there. So how am I supposed to do my job best? What are those things? What was I hired to do, and build your KPIs from there?
When I picture ops, I just I just think of the guy with all the spinning plates in front of him all the time, it feels a lot, keep them spinning. And, and I just think that the way that you approach this work, Germeen is so wonderful and modern, because the way that you flex automation, and tech, and cloud based solutions that just make the work so much easier. And you're talking about things that I call hygiene, like you're talking about policies and procedures, that things that none of us want to work on, but absolutely every single person needs to have because we have to have those bat checks and balances in place to be able to operate from a place of what is known who our values, you know, talking about what our values are. And we have to have a sense of understanding that we're all collectively moving in one way, it's not the ops team, moving for our organization, moving the ops forward, we're all pouring into this. And so when I think about all those spinning plates, I got to think about mental health. And we talk about you know, just what would be our sustainability and support and something like this. We call this the mental health minute, how do you take care of yourself and opps as you're spinning all those plates as you're having anxiety about your Becky Endicott, who is a major gift officer, and maybe didn't tell you exactly when this grant proposal was due? Talk about how people can have a habit of taking care of themselves in this work? What would you suggest?
Honestly, I'm very process oriented. And I think a lot of times where chaos, burnout, headaches, stress, anxiety and sometimes with these things, flow is from chaos, right? Not being prepared, not knowing where things are, how they're moving. And so I always take a step back and say, there should be a process as to how we're doing everything. When I come in on Monday, I should know what's going to be required of me this week so that I can plan my week out well, so that I'm not stressed and overwhelmed. Anytime I think about being stressed and overwhelmed. It's typically because to stuff isn't living in my head to have all of these tasks all these to dues, but where are they living? And so this is where Becky mentioned that I am a huge tech advocate because a lot of times a lot of the hiccups are that they things that are causing us stress can really be solved with implementing the right tool. And so we're big. And that's why I'm also big on, you know, encouraging management to be clear on roles and responsibilities, being very careful of approaching things with that all hands on deck mentality, because that can be harmful. And so when you know your role, and you know what you're supposed to be doing, a lot of times, there's a little bit more ease and comfort there. Versus if you're coming into an environment that's chaotic, and you don't know what you're gonna get that day, right. And so, order? I know we don't like it. But, order, process, procedure: these are the things that help us to operate more like a well oiled machine and less chaotic and frantic.
I mean, I think we needed to hear that for our own business. But I know there's organizations listening today that need to lean into that discipline is freedom, right? This is what I hear.
So seriously.
Germeen, every time we hang with you, I'm like, you know, we can do this, like you make it seem so doable. And you make me excited about infusing some of these like principles and core into heart in our work, but I just want to transition give you the floor and say, how can people work with you directly? Because I think what you've built with Visionary Accounting Group is incredible. And just to follow you on social media is a joy as well. So connect us all the ways to find follow you and what ya'll do.
Yeah, so at Visionary we specifically work with nonprofits who aren't yet are being audited or know that they're on the verge of being audited. Our sweet spot is connecting the accounting and audit process together so that you have a seamless financial operation. And so people, organizations outsource their accounting to us in their audit prep. And so that's the crux of what we do. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook as the visionary accountant. I'm also on LinkedIn at Germeen Guillaume. Yeah, you can, I'm pretty active. So you know, follow me say hello, send me a DM with a question.
For anybody who's looking for pedigree. I didn't even read all this. I mean, you're from Penn State, you worked at the Big Five bank, she worked at a top four, accounting firm. I mean, yeah, so
I think that's helps, you know, like, I'm, I'm a former auditor. So I think that's the other. The other thing is that, so I look at things with a heavy level of professional skepticism. And so now being on the accounting side, and working with these organizations versus auditing them, I can offer a lot of insight about how to be prepared. And so that's why I say that that's our sweet spot. We work with organizations that are not being audited, but know that they have a plan for growth. So you will eventually get there. And so we, we get you ready, keep you ready. So you don't gotta worry about you know, when you hit that threshold, kind of going crazy, like, things are not together. So we try to make sure you stay ready. So you don't have to get rid,
just take your means hand, she'll take you there. And for all of our ops folks out there, I just want to create a hard pause and say thank you for what you do. You are oh, so important to what we do. And we just really value how you show up and support this incredible, you know, industry that we're just lucky to work in. So thank you, Germeen, love having you on rooting for you in all things, my friend.
Thank you. Thank you.
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