568: Leading the Growth of a New Office with a Large Practice with Candace Rimes of Fogarty Finger | Otter.ai

568: Leading the Growth of a New Office with a Large Practice with Candace Rimes of Fogarty Finger

Enoch Sears57min

Unknown Speaker

00:00

Your team members are your like, hands down, greatest asset.

Rion Willard

00:02

Hello and welcome to the Business of Architecture. I'm your host. Ryan Willard, please join me in welcoming today's guest, Candice rimes as the director of Fogarty fingers interiors studio, Candice has taken the helm of the firm's newly established Atlanta office with over a decade of experience, she brings a fervent passion for design that beautifully blends commercial and private amenity interiors. Candace's expertise in furniture finishes in art is exceptional, and she takes great pride in materializing a client's vision through a collaborative approach. Candace's Impressive client roster includes Brookfield properties, Portman holdings, the Rockefeller group, ruling management Nike and Uber. Among her current projects are the multi family interiors at 1020 Spring Street in Atlanta's Midtown and the innovative reimagining of Rudin management's portfolio across New York City. Noteworthy past projects include the 1700 Broadway club in Midtown West and dock 72 at the Brooklyn Naval Yard before her tenure at Fogarty, finger Candice designed brookfield's New York corporate headquarters and provided art direction and FF and E for high end interior projects worldwide. Candice holds a Bachelor of architecture and interior architecture from Auburn University, and completed a distinguished design and build thesis at the renowned Rural Studio in western Alabama. In this episode, we will be discussing the Business Development Strategy Candace took in setting up the new office, how to preserve and enhance an already existing and successful company culture in the setup of a new branch office, and we talk about the importance of having and finding a brilliant team. So fantastic nuggets of gold here. Sit back, relax and enjoy Candice rinds. This podcast is produced by Business of Architecture, a leading business consultancy for architects and design professionals. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architecture's flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smartpractice method.com or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how he might be able to help you, please follow the link in the information. Hello, listeners. We hope you're enjoying our show. We love bringing you these insightful conversations, but we couldn't do it about the support of our amazing sponsors. If you're a business owner or know someone who would be an excellent fit for our audience, we'd love to hear from you. Partnering with us means your brand will reach over 40,000 engaged listeners each month. Interested in becoming a sponsor, please send us an email at support@businessofarchitecture.com Candice, Welcome to the Business of Architecture. How are you?

Unknown Speaker

03:05

Hi, good. How are you, Ryan,

Rion Willard

03:07

I'm very well. Thank you. Pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you. You've

Unknown Speaker

03:11

awesome. You. You are

Rion Willard

03:13

the director of the interior studio at Fogarty finger and the head of the firm's Atlanta office. You've been with them for how long? Over 10 years?

Speaker 1

03:23

Well, yeah, it was actually 10 years a couple of days ago, which is wild. I didn't, didn't realize that until, like, you know, you see your LinkedIn, you know, little LinkedIn messages in your in your mailbox. Yeah, we're often just running, running full speed ahead, so we forget those really cool miles, so, yeah, amazing. Really great to have been there. Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

Rion Willard

03:45

And you've got a kind of career that spans both commercial work private interiors. You've worked with clients such as Brookfield, Rockefeller group, Rudin, Nike, so big major corporations, as well as private and multi, multi family work, and you were also a graduate of the amazing Rural Studio. So very impressive career. And I think you know, one of the things that why we would what we were talking about when we first met, was the genesis of the Atlanta studio, and how you've been the one really responsible for that, and how you've led it, you kind of, you know, you were the one that went out there, set it all up. So perhaps we could talk a little bit about, you know, how did you get to be in the position of Head of the Atlanta office? How did this emerge? Yeah, no,

Speaker 1

04:39

that's something, something interesting to I always think about, sort of, how, how did, how did it all start? So I had the pleasure of working at Fogarty finger for 10 years, and during the pandemic. I guess that was seven years in, into my career there, during the pandemic. Like we had the opportunity of a pretty major multifamily project in Atlanta, and, you know, we're working on that, and, you know, everything hit with with covid. And my husband is actually from New York, and we had been, I had been there for seven years, and I think it just seemed like a really, you know, great opportunity, and a perhaps, you know a risk to take, and I'm very risk adverse, which is interesting, but really sort of ended up taking a break from living in Brooklyn for a minute, and went and lived with my parents for a month or two, and ended up just driving around the southeast and came to Atlanta a couple of times. Obviously, had a project here already, and had had some great friends that had moved here from Auburn and from some of my Rural Studio colleagues as well. And we, you know, just really fell in love with the city and the particular neighborhood that we ended up, luckily enough, fortunate enough, able to buy a house in which, now would be probably impossible with the market here, but it was actually a house that, growing up, my my mom and dad met here at Georgia Tech, and we have family here. And growing up, I remember driving down McClendon and Candler Park and thinking, Oh, wow, that I love craftsman architecture like, seriously, was so enamored by the just the asymmetry of the Craftsman homes and the details and so it's was, I would say, very serendipitous. It's come full circle that we're in this neighborhood that my aunt and uncle lived in, and I would visit, you know, in high school and middle school. So it's been, it's been really lovely, sort of coming back. But, yeah, I think we decided, let's, let's give it a shot. And thankfully, Chris Fogarty and Robert finger, you know, I have a really good relationship with them, and we, we work together hand in hand for, you know, had worked together hand in hand in hand for seven years. And I think, you know, it just, it speaks, it speaks volumes of them to sort of allow me to take this, you know, take this leap. See, see what, you know, see what we could do. See, see how we could sort of expand the firm's portfolio. And you know, it's been, you know, with a lot of, you know, elbow grease and hard work and making connections. I think it's been really a really rewarding sort of risk that I took, that we took as a firm, but, you know, it's, it's led to a lot of, like, really, I think, really interesting work, especially in the southeast. It seems to have the spirit of, sort of, you know, it feels a little bit like, you know, because I was able to sort of start this office and start it from the ground up, and strategically start to hire and build the team. And ended up renting a co working space to sort of allow that flexibility, to be able to move from, you know, I was started out in a one, one person office, not on a window, like deep into the core of the industrious office space. And then gradually, you know, hired from Georgia Tech, amazing, brilliant students out of the master's program there rice and USC and Auburn, some interns from Auburn. And then gradually, you know, worked our way up to an eight to 10 person office, and now we're eight, and it's been really, really, really cool to see sort of the opportunities that we've been able to sort of access that perhaps may be a bit out of reach in New York, or just because it's so saturated with, you know, just so many architects and so many designers and thought leaders, and I think Atlanta has the exact same pool of amazing people and designers and the like. But, you know, just it feels a little bit like in, you know, we've been able to sort of work on a variety of projects. You know, even outside of the corporate, commercial, multifamily realm, you know, we were able to work on a diner like our true first restaurant hospitality project, a sort of diner concept in downtown Atlanta, South downtown and, you know, bar entertainment space, things that sort of we had, we had been honing our skills on in the corporate, commercial world. And, you know, obviously we've been working, if you look at our website, you know, we have a lot of great amenity work and great hospitality work that folds in and sort of blurs the line in the commercial, multifamily world, but, but, you know, we were actually able to tap into that true hospitality sort of sector here. And I think because there is so much growth in the southeast, you know, Atlanta has the, you know, busiest airport, there's amazing universities all around so there is this, like, I can't put my finger on it, but there is this entrepreneurial like pulse and a lot of like prototyping and new. Of interesting ideas flowing, you know, a lot of sort of hotels popping up. More people are moving from the Northeast or the West, you know, northwest, to come to the southeast. So there is this interesting wave of like energy here. There's always been a rich fabric of design and creativity here, you know, but it just feels, well, it feels like you're sort of on the cusp of something. What

Rion Willard

10:26

was it that? Was it a location that you, at Fogarty finger, had actually identified that you want to get into the markets in Atlanta? Or was it more opportunistic, where you already had a project that was happening in how did it come about? Yeah, no, that's

Speaker 1

10:42

such a great question. It's sort of both a both and answer, because we did have, we were fortunate enough to have a client from Atlanta, very well known client, you know, see our work on the website, and we want a really great multifamily job here on Spring Street. And great project, Sora with Portman residential. And, you know, loved working with them. And you know, at the same time, you know, we were as a firm, you know, going through the pandemic and trying to, you know, a lot of things in New York started to sort of shutter and shut down or pause. A lot of developers were pausing. And I think, you know, the southeast was still sort of, you know, it hadn't been, it was hit very hard as well, but it sort of was a little bit, you know, there was, there's more space, you know, there's, there's more land. And I think it just a lot of people started to relocate to the southeast, to, you know, big cities in the southeast, to rural city, rural towns, to sort of, you know, escape the the compact environments that they were in. And I think that that sort of spirit, you know, in Atlanta, and also, you know, myself having connections and a history here, and a few, a few connections already, it just seemed like a really great opportunity being risk averse. It seemed like it had like, if you were to go, I remember making like, visually. Remember a checklist that I made where it was like, Is this a good like, like, what are the pros? What are the cons? And the pros far outweigh the cons. And the cons were, you know, like your classic fears, like, what if I fail? What if this doesn't work? You know, what? If no one wants to hire us, but it's, it's so interesting because the work speaks for itself. And, you know, everybody finger, we've all worked so hard building a portfolio that's, I think, a really remarkable and rich and diverse portfolio of work. And I think that has been able to support me. You know, with all of the talent in New York. I mean, 130 like Uber talented minds and all of their work and our work combined, like the collective work at fergufinger, I think was able to support me and sort of jumpstart the the business here, you know, with a lot of also a lot of hard business development learning, and was it that you don't, aren't taunted taught in school? Was

Rion Willard

13:05

it the first satellite office or new office that Fogarty finger had done? So you were the front runner, so there wasn't that kind of blueprint for how you were going to do it, necessarily. There

Speaker 1

13:17

wasn't. And we, and, and we, we do have projects all over the US. So we unders, you know, we obviously sort of know how to complete projects in other cities and states. And, you know, we've had projects, you know, out west and in the southeast. And I think, you know, it's, it was, it was sort of the first sort of footprint, like real like planting roots here, and like giving it a real go, versus, you know, having a project that we fly down for during, you know, CA and meet with the client. And, you know, are very hands on, of course, even if we don't have a real, true presence there. But I do think, in order to grow, you know, I'm what I'm learning again, architecture school often doesn't teach the business development part of of the business right, which has been interesting to sort of navigate, but just learning that it is, you know, so important to have roots in the look like if you are going to really make an impact in your community. And I think I learned a lot of this all stems back from my time at the role studio. And what Andrew freer, and you know, before him, Sambo, Mach, V and DK Ruth taught us is that you know you really, you know to make massive change, you need to connect with community and be there, be present, collaborate, be open minded. You know, serving the underserved, like really being a part of it. And I think that that spirit really sort of was instilled in me early on in my career. And I think, you know, moving down to Atlanta and really, like diving in, is really, really in any in any other. Or, you know, if you're going to break into any other market, I think that's really the only way right to really dive in head first, connect with the community, make meaningful relationships like it isn't, I don't. I find that it hasn't worked when it becomes transactional, or when it becomes, you know, you're kind of there, you're not there. You know, you're you're tapping into a couple of projects, but especially in the southeast, when relationships are king, right? You know, everyone, everyone has it is a small, you know, especially with the university culture here. I mean, it's very much like the first question that I heard a lot when I started to to, you know, get into tap into the business development side of things, which, again, no blueprint for that. But, and I know everyone you know has a different strategy with this development, but the first question was often, where did you go to school, you know, like, did you go to, you know, where'd you go to architecture school and, you know, Georgia Tech, Auburn. So that was sort of, and then, and then connection sort of flowed from that versus, I think in New York, there is still that, there's that question, but it's, it's sort of not the first question, right? It's more like, you know, what developers are you working with? Who are you? What project you know where? Where are you in Brooklyn, or where you know, What projects are you working on, on Park Ave or a little bit more pointed. And I think here, I've found that again, like being a part of the community and being sort of tapping into, like, you know, where, what neighborhood are you in? Like, what you know, what do you what does your family do on the weekends? Like that seems to be really important. And it really important part of the the culture, and sort of a part of, honestly, a part of, you know, breaking into a new market here. I think it's really important to have, you know, meaningful long term relationships and it transact, sort of this trans, transactional mentality, like I, you know, I don't see that working. Maybe it's, maybe it has worked here. But for us, I think it's been, it's a really, like, long term vision that we've was set out,

Rion Willard

17:01

was there any kind of, kind of targets and goals that you set yourself, or that you and the the the other leadership, the other part of the leadership team from the from, let's call it HQ, set yourself where it was like, you know, where you were kind of like, okay, in terms of business development, we need To make sure that, you know, I close $2 million worth of, you know, fees, or whatever it is in in the space of the first couple of years, or the first year, to make to actually, kind of, number one, prove the concept that this is going to work, and number two, just to be able to make the whole thing move forward, right?

Speaker 1

17:37

No, that's a really good question. And I think I vividly remember having, you know, sort of a strategic meeting with Robert and Chris and Lisa, our marketing director, and just thinking about, sort of, what are our goals? And it's so funny, because it was, I remember that meeting vividly. There was many meetings, but it was sort of like it became so fluid, you know, it became, you know, it's sort of the a goal of, okay, I need to have one coffee a week, or one one dinner or coffee. Or, you know, meet up or tour with a developer of a, you know, existing project of theirs, or something, or or meet with a GC or a landscape you know, architect, or, you know, mechanical engineer, consultant, you know, future partner. Once, you know, once a week that was, sort of, my goal, is to have that baked into the calendar. It was very hard during covid. So, you know, it was sort of, you know, Matt, you know, masked up. And have, you know, making sure you're a lot of, you know, there's more space here. So it was, you know, a little bit easier here to have sort of outdoor, you know, dining opportunities. But, you know, I started out with, with really connecting with, you know, again, so fortunate to have, you know, the mothership, HQ, the support from our, you know, long standing, you know, relationships in New York and, and that was sort of the first strategic move, was to reach out and sort of leverage those existing relationships with, you know, Cushman and Wakefield or CBRE or JLL, like some of these, like really, really great partners that we have in New York and on the brokerage side, and also the developers Rockefeller group and some of these other really outstanding developers and clients that we've had the pleasure of working with in New York and sort of leveraging those existing relationships and meeting their Atlanta counterparts, which was so it was so sort of refreshing and amazing to be able to have that, you know, that connection. And it was sort of an, it felt it was, it was, instead of just feeling like thrown into the deep end, it felt comforting to start there, instead of cold, cold emailing or cold calling, right, right off the bat. So it felt, it felt, you know, it was the right first step to sort of leverage those existing relationships and sort of the southeastern counterparts of some of our you. You know, favorite clients and favorite partners in New York. And I just found that, honestly, every single person that I've met with has been so open, open and welcoming, and, you know, just like, oh, I need to connect you to this person. Or, I swear, every coffee that I would, you know, especially during those early days, there would be like, 10 people that I needed to connect with after that coffee, right, like and the and then the person that I met with for coffee was already, had already sent an email connecting me with, you know, a consultant or a developer, or someone who was leaving a brokerage group and moving to the development side or something. Oh, you should catch up with them. They're going to be working on this. And, you know, I think that the list is slowly it's funny, because, like, now the coffees and the dinners and the drinks, like the BD work like, the list is slowly getting smaller. Because I have, you know, over the last three years, like, really, met with a lot of these, like, you know, the heavy hitters and the big players and in Atlanta and our target sort of client opportunities. And I think the list gets, you know, smaller, but also new, new opportunities pop up, so the list gets bigger. And thinking about, you know, I was really focused on Atlanta, but now, you know, thinking about, you know, Nashville and Charlotte, and we have a project in Charlotte now. So thinking about, you know, these, like bigger, sort of these other target markets, and even, like tertiary, secondary, tertiary markets that would be great to break into as well, at Birmingham, Raleigh, you know, Raleigh, Durham. So thinking about that Florida, thinking about some of these other southeastern opportunities, you know, that just the list then goes back to, you know, overwhelming, which is, what, what, how I started. I think the list was really long of who to reach out to.

Rion Willard

21:51

I think that that's a really nice way of setting up the the the new office is kind of leveraging those existing relationships that you've already had in in New York, and it's the, you know, I'm sure that it was pretty easy then, that you could just have the existing clients introduce you to their counterparts, or you've already got the tried and tested relationships. And now it's a question of you understanding what are the pains and problems and things that they're trying to solve in the in the new locale, and starts to set up a really great, just a great way of expanding the working relationship with both practices, with both businesses, absolutely,

Speaker 1

22:27

and it's interestingly enough, led to some really interesting projects because, you know, starting, you know, and I know a lot of people say this, that start, you know, that start their own, say, residential architecture practice. They're like, we took everything, we took everything that came our way. We took a bathroom, we took a someone's, you know, garage. And I think it was we were really lucky to have, you know, having some of these, leveraging some of these existing relationships. A lot of those existing relationships that had counterparts down here had some projects that, you know, during covid, they just, they were either at a standstill with or they needed some a different eye, a fresh eye, you know, made someone that came, you know, just completely had, had not seen the project, had not seen the the sort of design intent yet. And so we were able to hit the ground running with a couple of smaller projects. One I'll never forget, was this amazing opportunity at a very high end residential condo building here in Atlanta, and one of our existing clients in New York that has counterparts in Atlanta, you know, said, Hey, could you guys just have a vision and stage this, stage one of the condos, and just like, help us, help us get these out on the market and get these sold. And that was such a great, you know, and I we had, obviously, that was a very it was a small, much smaller scope than than we were used to. But it also was very hands on. And it actually was such a great tool, training tool for the new hires that you know that I was bringing in, and you know, both, you know, recent graduates and you know they hadn't done any procurement or furniture, you know, necessarily studied furniture procurement, or, you know, different types of, you know, wall covering or drapery you know that was Like, obviously, not necessarily what you learn in grad school. So, you know, it was a really interesting way to connect with the community and connect with different materials and furniture makers. You know, we had an agenda to sort of with the specific, specific staging opportunity to bring in all like as many local artisans as we could so local sort of furniture makers with custom pieces, and then also local artists. So we were able to tap in to the local art and artisan community here, which is extremely exciting here, and so rich, and like very much a forefront in the US. A lot amazing, amazing furniture design comes. Out of the southeast. And I think with that, we were able to really tap into that sort of realm. And then now that has, like paid off in dividends with being able to sort of go back and say, Oh, we know that artists we worked on that, that tiny condo staging project, and now we're working with them on a massive lobby on Peachtree. Their their art will will be going in sort of the front, front lobby space. So seeing them grow as well with our growth has been really interesting seeing like, supporting the artist community and the artisan community and the maker community. So it was interesting, like, again, like probably a project that we wouldn't have necessarily accepted in New York just because of the scale we did in Atlanta because it was our, it was our first project, and it was with an existing, amazing client, and we wanted to help them, and it allowed for my team to grow. It was, it was one of the most sort of amazing, sort of tools, a training tool for myself, for the team to work together. I mean, we were like hands on, working together, you know, making the beds and the, you know, staging the bed, the sheets, and I mean, stuff that we normally don't do, right? But like we were, we were really, it was. It became a very hands on effort. And I think that, like that, to me, is sort of, again, like getting your hands dirty, like getting in and doing the work, doing the work that maybe you you haven't done before, necessarily, wouldn't, maybe wouldn't accept if you know, if you were, if I was still back in New York. But I think it was so powerful to to start there, sort of start small, but also very big, because it was a lot of new for all of us.

Rion Willard

26:37

Did you take, did you take a team with you, or did you completely rebuild a team from scratch and have to go through the hiring process and find local talent? Or how did that bit work? So you said you're now complete, yeah,

Unknown Speaker

26:50

complete rebuilding

Rion Willard

26:51

right there, completely by yourself with there was one existing client that you've been working with, and then you were tasked with finding new projects, were you still, were you kind of like 100% then just doing the business development, or were you still involved in projects back in HQ? How was it working? How did you, how did you, how did you transition out, and then, how did the team emerge? Yeah, that's

Speaker 1

27:17

a really good question. And I think that's still, that's still very fluid, even to this day. You know, I think what's really special about our firm is that, you know, now that we have an office in Atlanta, Boston and New York, we are able, because of the pandemic and because of the technology and the way of working changed, we are able to continue to sort of work on projects in all of all three cities and beyond. So, you know, we I still to this day my team in Atlanta, still to this day we are working on, you know, New York work. Really exciting new york projects, multifamily and commercial interiors. And, you know, multifamily and commercial interiors and hospitality work, and some of these like interesting new realms of architecture in in Atlanta. So it's actually, it's it was actually such a great recruit, recruiting, sort of aspect of recruiting because of that, I think a lot of students you know, out of tech, or out of you know, any of the, any of these really amazing architecture master's programs are thinking of the big cities. They're thinking of New York or San Francisco or, you know, Europe or and I think, you know, a lot of them wanted that opportunity and have being able to sort of, you know, break into something honestly, it was, it's a it was, I admire them a lot. The, you know, the two women that joined me right away, because they took the risk, and they said they saw something in this, this new office, and they, you know, they were really excited by the fact that we would be still connected to New York, and have, you know, some major projects going on there. And then also, you know, breaking in and starting to build a portfolio here in Atlanta and creating something completely new. So I think it was a risk for them and a risk for us, and it was, you know, it's been really cool to see how my team in New York, that sort of I had worked with for seven years, has grown, and they've sort of, again, sort of expanded, and we, we now sort of cross pollinate. And the team in Atlanta, you know, is very close with my team in New York. And we're, we all work together on projects. And it's, it's been really cool to see that sort of osmosis and the evolution of that happen. And I think, you know, maybe five years ago, we would have said that that was impossible, like that. There's no way that that would really work out, you know, oh, you're not in the same room, like, you know, you're not there at midnight. We're, you know, burning the midnight oil together. But like, I feel like the opposite is true. I think it's really allowed us to. Be a bit more free now that we, you know, have we're able to sort of cross over, and we have our big summer party coming up next week, and everyone the Atlanta team is flying up to New York, and I think everyone's just so excited to be able to, you know, see their other teammates, their other colleagues that are in the New York office. And since we don't get to see them every day, like in person, we see them on the screen, but, yeah, it's, it's, it's been really interesting, sort of navigating that, building the team from scratch, making really strategic hires. I mean, I was very, you know, I wanted to be really mindful and create a really I wanted to create a really positive working environment and a, you know, really take it slow. I wanted to, I we, I interviewed so many, so many amazing, talented people that I really wanted to hire, sort of people that had different sort of strengths than I did, and sort of had a really, also an entrepreneurial spirit. I was looking for that as well. And, you know, people that were like, team is everything team. You know, just being a team player, you know, there is no leave the ego, like, way, way, way before that you even walk in the door. That was really important to me, that to make these, these really I mean, and honestly, the my first hires are still with me today. We're still we're now eight, so it's been really cool to watch it grow, and to watch my first hires start to foster the new hires and mentor them. And I think, you know, it's been, now, probably around three full years of having a true team, because my first year was like, just me, myself, and I trying to navigate that, like you said, trying to navigate sort of peeling off some of the New York projects, focusing on biz dev and also hiring. But I do think probably the the thing that I focused most on, you know, or the two things I focused most on when I moved down, was business development and then strategic hiring and making sure that that our everything sort of felt good and meshed and felt like it would just be a really, because we spend so much time together, you know. And yeah, in this field, and of architecture, it's like, you got to have fun. I mean, if you're not having fun, I mean, you're up late a lot, you're I mean, it's, it's definitely, it's a, it's a lifestyle, to be honest. And I think, you know, and so I think being able to really respect each other. And I do think, if I think about my team right now, every single one of them has brings such a different viewpoint to the table. They they come from different backgrounds, different schools of thought, different life experiences, different interests. So I do think that you know one of one of my more senior hires, she's She came from a firm that was very focused on billing. And, you know, you know, the the financial side of the business, like you were saying, like, what was your goal? Like, you know, break, you know, 2 million or whatever. Like, her firm, for sure, was, like, very focused on that. And I think hiring her has completely changed my life, because she's, she really focuses on the business from that standpoint, and sort of making sure we're financially healthy and can can sustain whereas, you know, my brain is more, you know, oh, we have to make sure these projects are, you know, the best, and that the highest quality, and that we're executing excellence at every turn, you know, like that, sort of like where my mind is at, and also Like finding new partnerships. But her mind is, is very much from that sort of instilled in her early on and her first experience of working at a firm for five years, like, like, you know, where are we at financially with this project? Like, where's our whip at? Like, have we broken even? Like, like, should we pull someone off this job? Like, like, things that I I should have been thinking about, let me, let me be clear, I should have been thinking about that, but I do think my, my background is so focused on design and sort of making sure these projects are, are really rich and, and, and she thinks that way too. It's just, it's just we, we make a really good team with all of our sort of strengths and interests. I think,

Rion Willard

34:18

well, that's a really that's important, yeah, that's very complimentary. And it's always very empowering when we start to see the like, great design thinkers and and work being underpinned with really solid financial kind of advice and financial planning and just being really, you know, aware of where the profitability is on a project in terms of, like, just, just, just talking about kind of maintaining office, you know, the profitability of the practice, were you completely your own kind of financial entity when you set up? Or were you, like a, were you kind of still operating as Fogarty finger in New York? Or, how did it, what? How did. The legal structure of the new company work. And then, when did it become kind of a clean here's our money, here's the money that's going into phobia finger, what's, what's the sort of relationship there? And then perhaps you could talk a little bit about the kind of financial controls that you have inside of the the Atlanta office. Yeah. And I

Speaker 1

35:17

think, I think that's a really good question. And I think, again, another fluid topic that we're still sort of navigating, because we still have projects, my team, my team, you know, we still have projects in New York, in Charlotte and then and in Atlanta, of course. So we are sort of still navigating that sort of, you know, making sure in the fine, you know, the program that we use in ajira, like making sure that we can sort of see that and track sort of how Atlanta is doing versus, you know, maybe the New York projects that we're working on. So we do have ways to sort of break that up in the program. And sort of we have, we actually started having, which they're really, I think, really great to have. We started having sort of billing, billing look ahead and sort of all hands, meetings with with senior leadership once a month, with our accounting department and our CFO, and we sort of sit down and go team by team and look at everything and see, you know our you know how we are fine. You know what is our financial health and what's the projection. And I think that that's been really helpful, not only for me, but for because we're just go, go, go. And, you know, everything's so you know, we're just moving so quickly, especially in commercial interiors. You know, you're moving so quickly that often you don't have time to sit back and really look at that big picture. But, you know, it's been really great as well for the you know, some of my senior team members that you know can see, can see that sort of holistic view and see that big picture that perhaps before they really didn't have a good handle on. And so then we can all sort of work together and say, like, hey, like this project is nearing being in the red like, we need to, like, think about how strategically, how we're going to staff this project. Do we want to, you know, pull, you know, a senior off of it and put an intermediate on with a junior, you know, starting to think about sort of strategic staffing and manpower when we start to see those, you know, those highlighted projects, you know, that we fear every, every month. You know, okay, these are, these are nearing the red, or these just broke even, you know, let's, like, start to really strategize. You know, do we need to charge, do we need to charge that more, more on the next job? That's a similar scope, you know, like, maybe we, maybe our fee was too low, or maybe it's a more of a marketing type Effort, Right? Like, especially as we're breaking into a new market, I think that's something we've been navigating. Like, when you when you ask me that question, like, the reason why I said that we're still navigating that is because there are some, you know, there is that, like, marketing piece where you know, it is going, it's, it's, it's, you know, we're probably not going to be profitable on a brand new restaurant, you know, concept project that we've never, we've never done before in New York or any other city, and we're trying to do it here in Atlanta, you know, and we're pouring all of our resources in. We want it to be the best, you know. I think that project is just, you can go ahead and put that over in the marketing bucket, you know, as it were, so I think there's, there's some, some of those projects that you really have to think about, like, is this, you know, a long term marketing effort where this will lead to other work, other larger, you know, projects that with this client. And so do you know, do we? Are we okay with sort of breaking even, or even, you know, hopefully not losing money, but, but breaking even? I think that's something that I'm still navigating, and probably one of the most challenging aspects of breaking into a new market, because really understanding where you want to, you know, what deals do we do? We want to give out and and when and how and where and for what projects? Because you also, you know, you also want to be mindful of, you know, this work. We're here. We're going to be here for the long haul. So don't want to set ourselves up or diminish our, you know, what our future impact could be. So that is something that we're still to be honest, completely honest. Completely honest and transparent. We're still sort of navigating where that fine line is. But we were very, very fortunate and lucky enough, like with a lot of hard work, to land two major lobby repositioning, sort of that second year of starting the firm here in Atlanta and those projects you know came with, came with very healthy fees, and those have been able to and again, those are sort of your dream projects, right? That you get those two, three year long projects that have a healthy fee that can sort of carry the team and carry the firm and allow you. To perhaps take on some of those marketing type, you know, positioned projects that might not, you know, that might not be the paying the bills, or the so to speak, or even break any breaking even at time, but at times, but are sort of going to be a profit center down the line, you know, once you can show yourself in that, in that sector. So I will say that that was one of my goals, is to get some, some really, you know, some really healthy projects, some long term healthy projects, which the lobby repositioning and the building repositioning work is, is, you know, a great or, you know, say, a large commercial interior restack. Those projects are, are great to have, because those, you know, are sort of a they have a longer schedule and come with a healthier fee. And I think that allows you to have a little bit more flexibility in breaking into a new market. So, so you can actually be able to, you know, have those. So it sounds

Rion Willard

41:02

like you were being quite strategic. Then, you know, you knew that, you knew that some new sectors were going to be very risky for you to do, and then other, other larger projects, they were going to be much more stable. And you could actually start, you know, get a few of those under your belt. And then, now we've got a business because we've got some predictability with our cash flow. And the fee is pretty, is decent, and you can still maintain your your profits and use that to be reinvesting or or whatever it is you're choosing to do with it, in terms of kind of managing projects. Were there systems say, for example, you know that you were using a phobia finger in the in New York that you brought to Atlanta, so kind of like, well, tried and tested financial systems for managing a project. You mentioned there that one of your the leaders in your team, she's really kind of switched on in terms of finance and making sure that there's a tracking happening, of like, how much of the project fee Are you going through? Were those? Were those kinds of systems at Fogarty finger that you were able to bring over and kind of just make sure that you were, you were implementing Absolutely.

Speaker 1

42:14

I think of, I think of the Atlanta office as a true sort of, you know, a true sort of satellite office where we are using the the same, you know, financial applications and systems and, you know, software, of course, also design language, because we, do, you know, we have worked so hard to create a brand. So that's really important to me, as well as, in addition to all of the the drier aspects of, you know, the programs and things that, other than the softwares that we've we continue to use, but also the the, you know, just the the continuing to implement the brand and continue to grow it and make it stronger and evolve it, and making sure that we're using, you know, the Fogarty finger through looking at every project, through the Fogarty finger lens, and through sort of the the building blocks that we've created over the years and that are really important to all of our projects. And I think that's something that has been really, really, honestly, really joyous for me to be able to sort of impart on the new hires. Because, you know, that is something that is, you know, it's like, you know, for, you know, different firms have different ways of designing and different programs and different different ways, different tools that they use in their toolkit. So I think that's been sort of taking the same toolkit that, that that I was able to hone with, you know, my team, and Robert and Chris and all of the other directors in New York for seven years, taking that same toolkit, whether it be the financial applications or the schedules that we that we sort of pride ourselves on, the project schedules and sort of manpower, sort of schedules as well that we we always take a look at, you know, sort of taking all that knowledge, taking that toolkit, literally, packing it up and taking it to Atlanta, and rolling that out across the team. And it's been interesting to see different aspects. Or, you know, people are different, different team members are interested in different pieces of that toolkit. And are, you know, stronger at, stronger at some of those tools, so, using some of those tools. So I think that that's been really interesting and and starting to see, you know, now that we're eight, like, Okay, what? What tool? What? Like, you know, tool map, you know, master of this tool, like, what do we need? You know, how do we need to strengthen our team, knowing that, you know we, as we continue to grow, you know, what will our needs be as a team to continue to be this like really strong, unified force that sort of has, you know, you know we're all. We all have our own diverse strengths that sort of, I think, create a. Really rich, rich culture and rich firm, you know, and profitable, healthy firm,

Rion Willard

45:05

when you were kind of deciding to go out to do this and be the kind of lead, was it the beginnings of you becoming like an equity partner in the business, or becoming like a part owner of the actual office itself or or was it more of a kind of traditional role that you would occupy as being a director who was leading the expansion of the of the office? Yeah,

Speaker 1

45:30

it was. It was a very sort of traditional model, I would say, of sort of, you know, leading, breaking into a new market, leading the office, and sort of leaning on, you know, a lot of the directors, you know, where there's a team of directors at Fogarty finger that I've worked with for now 10 years, which is really cool. All of us have been together for for a while now, and sort of working with them and still talking with them weekly, daily even, and making sure that we're all aligned. And then, of course, you know, meeting with Robert and Chris regularly to the founders of the company, to make sure that we're, we're aligned as well, and sort of our efforts and our business development and marketing and and billing and all of the parts of the business. So, yeah, I would say it's a more traditional model. And I think that, you know, as we continue to grow, you know, of course, there's, you know, opportunities, I'm sure, in the future, but as it is right now, you know, really, I'm really trying to focus on building, building the office here, and sort of making sure that it's sustainable and healthy, and also, probably most importantly, just a really positive culture at the end of the day. Because if you're if your people, your people are your your team members are your like, hands down, greatest, greatest asset. And I think that we often forget that. And, you know, you see a lot of firms sort of gobble up other firms, or, you know, grow really quickly, and the employees are often the team members are often sort of forgotten that they're, they are the greatest asset of the the firm. And then you you know, it just, it shows in the work. I think so. I do think that that's something that I've that's been instilled in me early on at Fogarty finger, you know, Robert finger, sort of, it has always been, you know, just a sort of a mentor and a great mentor, and sort of making sure that we as a team were all okay and that we were feeling good about a project, or that we felt good about The way we were presenting, sort of a very uplifting sort of mentor. So I think that that has been something if I could, if I could, sort of think back that that I've tried to carry with me and make sure that I'm empowering my team. I think that's a better word, empowering my team to sort of grow and feel like they have a say and that they have. Because I've always felt since day one, back in 24 july 2014 when I started, I've always felt like I had a I had a say, and that I, I think Fogarty finger has this, like, great, like, can do spirit. And it's like, if you want to make it happen, if you want to bring something to table, great, like, test it out. Bring it to the table. Let's review it. Let's see how much it might cost, if it's something that requires, you know, funding or support and marketing support. And I think that does require, you know, a sort of certain entrepreneurial spirit and mindset. And I think, you know, early on, I feel like Robert and Chris both were like, Yeah, you want to start offering art consultant services or furniture consultant services or staging services. Yeah, let's, let's test it out. Like this client want needs that, so let's test it out. And I think, you know, that was probably around like 2016 when we started offering those services. And I think we've, it's only grown, and now we're looking at starting a furniture line, 40 finger furniture line. So I think I would love to carry that same spirit, that sort of that we were, that that I felt supported and empowered by leadership at Fogarty finger. I hope to carry that same spirit to the Atlanta office over, you know, the next 510, years, amazing.

Rion Willard

49:22

I love it. What have you got planned for the rest of the this year in terms of growth and building the team? Well, we

Speaker 1

49:30

have, we had the, it's funny, it's kind of perfect timing to have this conversation. We just had a kind of every designer's worst fear, right? A project go on hold. A couple of months ago, a really special, large scale project go on hold, and we sort of set our farewells, and sort of felt like perhaps it might not come back our way, but we just found out, you know, in the past. Couple of weeks that it's sort of going to come back, and it's going to have, it's going to be sort of, perhaps an even larger scope than what we had originally sort of set out to design. So that's really exciting, and I think it's going to take up a lot of our next year is sort of reassessing and making a bigger splash with this project than our the budget originally called for in the last couple of years with our design. So that's really exciting and not not often the case when projects go on hold, you don't often get a second chance at looking at a project and sort of adding scope and like really thinking about it holistically, and looking at the exterior and looking at sort of a total repositioning. So that's that's something that's coming up that we're really excited about, and we're, you know, we're also working on a variety of really exciting multifamily projects, one of which is with a developer here in Atlanta that is doing some really, really cool things, really groundbreaking things. So we're really excited to sort of work with them, get the opportunity to work with them again. That was, you know, a relationship that I feel really proud about creating and cultivating, and so excited to have to be making an impact at the sort of the local level, especially with a lot of these projects that do have sort of a with the lobby repositionings and the multifamily projects. You know, there is that aspect of, sort of the connection. One of the most important aspects is the connection with the urban fabric and the sort of the surrounding landscape and the pedestrian at the pedestrian level. And I think Atlanta is, is as a whole, has always been, you know, it's just a car centric culture. If you think about Atlanta, everyone's like, Oh, the traffic, you know. And I think something that I'm really excited about, and again, something that I was not thinking about in in New York, which is interesting, like the My perspective is completely changed now, because, you know, with a lot of these projects that we're taking on, the front entrance is not on the main, main Peachtree Street, right. The front entrance is coming from the parking garage, right. Like, like, so, you know, it's just a different, it's a different way of thinking about, you know, if you lived in London or New York or San Francisco, that you're not entering the Necessarily, entering the building, maybe after you get lunch across the street, yes, but you're not necessarily entering the building at like the classic main drag. So I think that's been something that we've really our team, specifically in Atlanta, and probably very different from a lot of the projects in New York and Boston, is that we've been thinking about sort of the urban, sort of renewing and embracing the urban fabric around especially our projects in Midtown that we're taking on, you know, there's just a real, a big push to make Midtown pedestrian friendly and, you know, just a very vibrant urban scape. So I think that that's something that, like another element of architecture and design and urban planning, even that has been sort of integral in these two these, the multifamily project and this large building repositioning project that that will take up, you know, our next, our next year or two or more, but that's, I think that's like, something that's been really exciting is, is being able to embrace, like, the exterior plazas and the exterior of the building and how that affects, you know, foot traffic and the pedestrian experience and and the tenant experience as well. So I think those are, those are new aspects of design that maybe weren't, weren't necessarily like the largest component of the projects that we worked on in New York, which is interesting,

Rion Willard

53:40

amazing, amazing, and congratulations for everything that you've accomplished with the Atlanta office. That's a really amazing kind of behind the scenes, if you like, of actually how you've how we've formulated, how it's strategized, and also the kind of organic elements of how you've made that, how you've developed the office. So thank you very much for your for sharing that with us. Thank you really, really interesting and loads of very valuable kind of strategies and anecdotes of how you made it coming to be. Well, listen,

Speaker 1

54:14

it's a team effort. It like again, I cannot take thank you for that compliment, but I cannot take credit without having, again, a team is everything. And, you know, hiring a great people and having a great like backing in New York and having support is like everything. So, yeah, it's been, it's been really fun,

Rion Willard

54:34

awesome, and that's a wrap.

Speaker 2

54:36

Hey, Enoch Sears here, and I have a request, since you are a listener here of the Business of Architecture podcast, Ryan and I, we love putting this podcast together. We love sharing information as much as we can glean from all the other industries that we're a part of to bring it back to empower you as an architect and a designer. One thing that helps us in our mission is the. Go through this podcast simply because it helps other architects stand for more their value spreads the business information that we're sharing to empower architects together, so architects, designers, engineers, can really step into their greatness, whatever that looks like for each individual. And so here my simple ask is for you to join us and be part of our community by doing the following, heading over to iTunes and leaving a review of the podcast. And as an expression of our sincere thanks, we would like to give you a free CEU course that can get you one professional development unit. But more importantly, we'll give you a very solid and firm foundation on your journey to becoming a profitable and thriving architect. So here's the process for that. After you leave us review, send an email to support@businessofarchitecture.com let us know the username that you use to leave the review, and we will send you that free training. On the training, you'll discover what 99% of architecture firm owners wished they would have known 20 years ago, and the other 1% well, they just didn't even know that. They didn't know. Head over to iTunes and leave us a review. Now this

Rion Willard

56:19

episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architecture's flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smartpractice method.com or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how he might be able to help you. Please follow the link in the information. Hello, listeners. We hope you're enjoying our show. We love bringing you these insightful conversations, but we couldn't do it about the support of our amazing sponsors. If you're a business owner or know someone who would be an excellent fit for our audience, we'd love to hear from you. Partnering with us means your brand will reach over 40,000 engaged listeners each month interested in becoming a sponsor, please send us an email at support@businessofarchitecture.com the views expressed on this show by my guests do not represent those of the host and I make no representation. Promise, guarantee, pledge, warranty, contract, bond or commitment, except to help you be unstoppable. You.

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