[126] Exploring the Power of Mantra Recitation – with Andrew Holecek

12:03AM Aug 29, 2023

Speakers:

Andrew Holecek

Keywords:

mantra

recite

recitation

mind

practice

sound

monitors

work

sleep

sacred

dream

called

samsara

feel

distraction

discursive

number

share

relates

yoga

So what I want to start tonight or today, wherever you are, is a little bit of a series on the power mantra, Mantra recitation. This is a big deal. And I will share with you why on a personal note, before we get into it, I've had a couple I guess you could say, openings breakthroughs. First one was when I was an undergraduate student at Indiana University totally stressed out getting a double degree in biology and music. And I went for health reasons to engage in transcendental meditation. My first meditation experience ever and I don't know as I'm sure some of you people here listening, have done mantra, or have done TM it's really a mantra based program that comes from Hinduism. And you know, the way they do it, they bring you in and they you have to do his little ritual thing is then they give you your special Triple X rated mantra, which is actually kind of funny. Because if you share it you know, you will dissolve on the spot and never to be seen again. It's actually a little bit. I mean, I get it, but you know, you can't share your mantra with anybody. And then I realized a couple of years later, Time Magazine did a big spread on Transcendental Meditation and all these monitors were posted. In there, including mine, it was like ah, blasphemy, but I have to say, it was it was a pretty big deal for me because it was the first time as my meditation instructor gave me my mantra, he recited it, he invited me to recite it with him aloud. Then he kind of diminuendo decrescendo into a silent recitation thing. And for the first time in my life, my mind had stopped, and I entered some jhana states and beginner's luck thing, when I entered this complete Samadhi, meta meditative absorption, and I don't know, time stopped, everything stopped, and when I came out of it we notice how much later felt like no time passed at all. On one level, it felt like lifetimes had passed. I came out of that experience, a different person. I mean, really, I went in, and before and after I came out and was like, I don't know what that is. Boy, I sure do. Want more of that. So ever since that mantra has been part of my my curricula. So many other stories, but another one when I did my really long retreat, it was doing a very beautiful, intense devotional practice called Guru Yoga. Similar to like, kind of the bhakti in Hinduism, and in particular Milarepa doing a Google yoga in connection him as I was really getting into the practice doing his recitation, and another, you know, pretty interesting sort of event happened. And so I have a very, very powerful personal affinity to these recitations. And so what I want to do with you over I don't know how long it's gonna take, it's probably going to take a couple series, at least for me, because the topic is so big. And by the way, those of you who listened to the podcast that we've done before we went public with edge of mind, my interview with the neuro, the neurologist in the Ayurvedic physician, cool read Chowdary KU L R, E, ti, cha, cha UD ar y. She's a really cool gal, and she wrote this book called Sound medicine, double entendre intended. And so I really recommend you listen to the little chat I had with her a couple of years ago, because we get into this notion of mantra there. But what I want to start to explore with you today are an exposition of what are the what are these monitors? Right, right. Where do they come from? How do they work? And why are they so incredibly important? But before we get going, I want us to just start I want us to start with some recitation. And I want there's so many mantras, I mean, literally 1000s in the Hindu tradition, they say they're 70 million mantras. I, you know, I wouldn't take that number too, literally. There's a lot and we'll, we'll talk a little bit more about like why are there so many mantras and so I was debating last day or so is like, Okay, what would be the most efficacious beneficial monitoreo for us to do? And of the hundreds that are out there? The hundreds that are 1000s that are over the counter and then the 1000s that are my languaging prescription strength, right mantras that you can only get through an empowerment. The one I'm going to share with you is is the one that actually come from comes from Tsongkhapa who's the founder of the Gaelic tradition. So there are four main schools of Tibetan Buddhism, just briefly NEMA old school. Kagyu. Sakya, and Gaelic Gaelic is the most recent one Dalai Lama is that pretty much the head of that one. sankalpa started that particular tradition. So this mantra comes from Him, and it's a Dream Yoga mantra, and I was delighted to discover it and then also to hear Dr. Anita Tetun, saying who's a Dream Yoga really gifted Dream Yoga teacher, and also Tibetan physician. He also engages in this mantra from a Nygma from an old school perspective. And so I was so delighted to discover this a number of years ago, because prior to that, I had asked everybody, I had asked so many different teachers. Is there a Dream Yoga mantra? Is there a Dream Yoga mantra and everybody said, No, and it's like, okay, I mean, who am I have to say, right? And so when I did research and found Tsongkhapa, had a Dream Yoga mantra, same on to Dr. Anita uses. It was like, wow, this is great. So I started reciting it pretty regularly. And I'm going to give it to you. I'm going to show it show you how to spell it so you can spell it out. What I want to do today is I want I want us to start with a little bit of a recitation. Before I start riffing on it a little bit. Often it's interesting in many wisdom traditions, they give practices before they give the instruction, not always but sometimes because the beginner's mind approach that sometimes the kind of the potency, the efficacy of a particular teaching, can have a little bit more oomph before the conceptual ality comes into play now this is a somewhat debatable point, sometimes there's, we can do it both ways. But for our purposes, I want us to start we're just going to sit for a minute I clear my voice. And then it's a little bit unfortunate that we can't really do this all together and chorus because it's really quite beautiful when when everybody's reciting it together. But I think you'll get the idea. You can just recite it with me. I'll do it very slowly. And then I just I'm going to invite you as we recite this together, just notice what happens in your mind. And maybe we can have a little discussion about it. Like where was your mind before you recited the mantra. Where was it after you started reciting it? And then excuse me, most particularly.

Where do you feel? What do you notice in your body? In Where do you notice it? Because mantras invite the quality of interiority interoception capacity to heighten one's ability to the internal landscape. And so trust me there is a ton to say about these things. And I will say it, a lot of it because this stuff is really cool. But to get started, let's determine it. I'll give you the mantra right now. So here it is. Oh, and you might want to write this down on almost all mantras. We start with um yeah, there we go. Good. All Barry has it in Tibetan. Yeah, we'll get to that. Later to the visualization later. So um, ah, ah new and you ah Ta ra ra. So, um, ah, new. Ah ha. Got it. Write it down ohm. New Tyler. I will I will explain this mantra and nauseam. Like what Wi Fi Wi Fi syllables. What do the syllables represent? I mean, there's there's a fair amount to say here. But again, before we get too involved with that, I want to start with some recitation. I'll do a little bit of riffing on it. We'll pause we'll do a little bit more recitation until we get you know, the feel for this mantra, and then hopefully inspire you to explore if you haven't already, the unbelievable power of sacred sound, and why these things are so incredibly effective. So we'll just sit for a minute or so I clear my voice will start reciting this thing very, very slowly together. We'll do this for a few minutes again. I you know, we can do an eyes open our eyes closed depending on how quickly you can memorize it. And then we'll have a chance at the end to talk about like, what was your experience? What did you notice and then we're gonna get into this topic, and I think a pretty deep, sophisticated way. You'll see why it's so central. Right? Right. What did they say in the Kurdish Christian tradition, right in the beginning was the Word and the Word was made flesh. So sacred sound, or you'll find it everywhere. So we'll set for a minute just to kind of center there's it's always helpful before you do any practice to engage the infrastructure. Meditation really for all practices, mindfulness. The set all together to tame the mind because some of the practices that build upon mindfulness that transcend it, but also included, are quite subtle. Enough, the mind isn't somewhat pacified, somewhat subtle. That's why mindfulness is so important. And the other practices often can be stampeded over by the untamed mind. So a few minutes of just silence

will recite it slowly. And again. Beginners beginner's mind. I don't notice what you feel.

I'm new ta I'm new. Ta ra. On I'm new ta LA. I'm new TA. On. New TA. On I'm new I'm new TA. On. New TA. On I'm new. Ta M new ta M. New car. Oh, I'm new on new ta Oh, I'm new. On I'm new ta new TA. On. New ta o I'm new I'm new I'm new. Ta Oh, I'm new. I'm new. I'm new. On new I'm new car I'm new. I'm new. Ta I'm new. I'm new. I'm new. Oh I'm new. I'm new. On new new I'm new I'm new. I'm new. I'm new.

And then we begin to very slow, kind of diminuendo de crescendo, so, recite down to a kind of semi audible whispered recitation

new new

to all

men well let's call them Bhadra or mental recitation. So recited within your mind.

And then you release the mantra just let it go and rest in what's called the ultimate mantra of course, which is silence.

Like Rumi, right? Great poet once said, silence is the language of God. All else is poor translation. But much mantra as we'll see is the best translation of silence.

Okay, welcome. Thank you. We'll have a chance to do this again in a bit but wanted to set the stage by giving you a feel. I'm sure for many of you mantra recitation is already part of the curriculum. But if not, I think you're going to find this and several other modules to be fantastic augmentation. So at the outset, one of the reasons the mantras are of such importance and centrality is that the universe is actually made of primordial sound and light. This is the really the sound of the mind the light of the mind. This is manifest reality is just this unbelievable kind of sound and light show. And so less we think this is just mere hyperbole. In several theories in physics, it's not like we have to capitulate to the physicists but they do have interesting things to say. So one of the foundational theories these days of course, is string theory, in deeply connected to string theory is what's called quantum field theory, arguably the most important and successful theory in the history of the cosmos. And in this theory, they propose 17 quantum fields, which they're hoping to unify into one grand unified field theory. They haven't quite done that yet. And so this goes back quite a few cents, not centuries, quite a few decades. Now. But within this rendering of reality, what we call particles, there really are no particles. And therefore it makes it very interesting. Well, isn't isn't matter made of particles. Isn't the world made of reducible to particles? Well, maybe. But what are these particles? So in quantum field theory, there's only the 17 fields and the Standard Model, and what constitutes the particles in the standard field model are nothing more excuse me than excitations. vibrations in the quantum field. That's it. That's it. It's like imagine an ocean with a little ripple in it little ripple. I mean, fundamentally, everything is the ocean. Everything is again which metaphor you want to use. Everything is in the physical world is just comprised of these fields, these energetic fields, the vibrations of which create what we then append the label, particles matter. And so Einstein even really before the advent of quantum field theory, even though field theory was around since Maxwell and the electromagnetic field, Einstein right said we are slowed down sound in light waves. A walking bundle of frequencies tuned to the cosmos. I'm gonna recite that again. That's really quite spectacular. We are slowed down sound in lightwaves. A walking bundle the frequency and to the cosmos and so, so wonderful. Play on word intended a wonderful resonance between the deep wisdom traditions and modern quantum theory, quantum physics and so Montra sacred sound is of inestimable value and benefit in the highest schools of Indian thought. tantric Buddhism, which is also called by Juliana Buddhism is very frequently referred to as secret mantra factory Yama, or mantra Jana literally, the vehicle of sacred sounds so by many accounts, the most advanced sophisticated rendering of the Buddhist tradition which of course is debatable, but just for purposes of argumentation, let's say it perhaps so. The Tantra the voluntary Ghana secret mantra, virginiana mantra Jana in Hinduism, highest form mantra yoga, union with God and even Shrivers own name. You know, Shiva Tantra, non dual Shabbaton, ie Kashmir Shaivism, which is of all the schools of Hinduism, that's the one that I resonate the most most with. It's called mantra margam. Literally the way of mantras and so geez, if it's of such centrality then there must be something to this. So the word itself mon ma n means mind. Try tra means to protect so mantras allude to this notion of protecting the Mind Mind protection. Literally that which protects the one who thinks that. And so, what mantras protect us from what they how they function is. They do so in a number of ways. One is that mantras protect us they protect the mind from distraction. You may have noticed, we're always distracted. Anybody here noticed this? Like our Rinpoche went so far as to say, this is really, I think, quite revelatory. To end distraction is to end samsara or conversely to amp to amplify. Distraction is to amplify samsara. And you may have noticed this in this day and age with all these distraction mechanisms right? Everything is faster and more distracting and more distracting. And this is really, this is the Kali Yuga. And so um, pay attention to your own mind. You know, we're always always distracted so monitors protect us from distraction and and I want to share one story with you. I mean, there's so many but I was when I was living in Nepal for a year I studied great deal with Trungpa Rinpoche was an amazing master who died some two months ago or was working in his incredible set of monasteries and at this point, I was in India actually, I was working outside of Varanasi. And we had a wonderful kind of day long, little break in the middle of this, I think 10 Day two week, I can't remember maybe 10 day training. We had a little break and we all went on a picnic, which is very sweet with him in all those marks. It was just it was it was a gas. We got all these buses and tooled outdoors as Little River and parking was so fun. And at the end of the day, we got stuck in one of these kinds of legendary Indian traffic jams right. And trigram he was sitting in the front I was on the same bus with him and and I knew I'm well enough where I have my little reading light. And I went up to him and I said, my machete, would you like to use my you know, reading light to read some text or something. And he was clicking away on his little mantra. I mean, as mala beads, right? I have mine here. Never borrow reach, right. So here's my little rosary bead, right. So here it was clicking, clicking, clicking play. And he said no, no, no, no prefer prefer my mantras and so I was actually quite taken by that and if you've ever been to India, Nepal, Tibet, and done what's called Cora which is when you walk around these beautiful stupas usually around sunset so wonderful thing I had my apartment was in Katmandu by the great stupid border, but I'm not stupid. And every single day it was just it was just like this fantastically beautiful social thing. You go down and do Cara, with 1000s of Tibetans and Nepalese who would be walking around this amazing stupor. And they'd be reciting you know, usually Oh, Monty Python, and the mantras would be blasting a musical form from all the cheesy stereo system was around the whole stupid thing. It was just fantastic. It was just so beautiful. And then also, if you've ever been there doing, stepping into some of the monitors just as incredible hypnotic power when several 100 monks together are reciting these things. And so monitors protect the mind from distraction. I will say much more about that. They also protect the mind. Kind of a little bit more inner rendering, they also protect the mind from ordinary appearances. Actually, let me say one thing more about the distraction thing. This is a I forgot because I was distracted. Um, one of the best ways to work with these monitors, there are so many ways to work with them formally with liturgical practices, in conjunction with visualizations. I'll be intimating and showing you other ways. But one of the best ways to work with monitor is is to get into the habit

to recite mantras whenever when this is the way I work with them. Whenever you're in in environments where the distraction index goes up. And so for me, this is just default, like the minute I start to travel the minute I pick up my Uber, to get to the bus, to get to the airport to get on my plane, you know, all that works. The minute I start to move because it's really interesting, maybe you've noticed this, how easily we get distracted when we move. And so I have found, in particular, when I'm engaging in travel, it this point is just default. I mean, the minute the minute I'm out of the house, I don't do them the rosary thing here because I don't want to draw attention to myself. That's why you do the mental recitation. I mean, I'm reciting mantras constantly. And in particular, you know, if things are getting really challenging, there's some emotional upheaval there's some chaos there's some you know impending threat or danger. Mantras are fantastically efficacious mechanisms to keep us from losing our seat from becoming distracted. So that's a central aspect of mantras. And it's based on our really important principle of tantra of Adriane altogether and this is this is definitely worth talking about and that is, what what Tantra does what what Adrianna does, is it's a little bit like, Eastern alchemy is it takes nomina principles that we are engaged in whether we know it or not. Certain unconscious processes, practices that we're doing that we're not even aware of. And what the Tantras do then is they take these unconscious processes, bring them into the light of consciousness, and then allow us to establish a conscious relationship to this phenomena to this process. And so by this what I mean is, take a look at your own mind. You will discover I will help you understand point out you are always reciting mantras. We are always reciting mantras. We recite mantras of the sword I'll be again all this stuff I'll be unpacking a moment mergers come in a variety of lengths from one, one syllable mantras. They're called Beija BIJC. BG means seed. So bija, mantras are seed mantras and so the five syllables associated with the Dream Yoga mantra these are five big mantras, which I'm going to unpack later on our new top. Each one of these sounds which by the way, does not need to be translated most monitors derive their power from the sound itself, not from the translation. So these are some mantras Yes, a few monitors are translated but the vast majority of them are not. So Omana Tada in itself doesn't have meaning, but each of the beat each of the seed syllables, as we'll see, probably not tonight, but next time has a tremendous meaning in terms of what it represents. So what I'm getting at here is is we recite bija mantras and this is my playful rendering on this and see if it's not true for you. We recite bija mantras based on three fundamental seed syllables. Ready? Here's the first one this will resonate with you, Eddie. Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee like alright, me, me, me, or my mind, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine mine, it's like a petulant two year old right Me, me, me, me, me, me mine, mine, mine, mine, mine mine. My favorite one. My Jewish brothers and sisters love this one. III Yeah, I Right. Yeah. So really, these are these are three bija mantra see syllable mantras. I mean, me me. My mind. Mind. Right. Right. You chuckled because you know it's true. I was like, Ah, geez. Busted, right. And so these these three bija, mantras, seed syllable mantras, then, we flush out to what are called da Ronnie's. These are just longer mantras, some of which can be 100 syllables or even longer. And so from these bija, mantras come the discursive mantras that we're always reciting in the various forms of like, How can I profit from the situation? What does this person have to do with me? What about mine, you know, just look at your look at your life. How much of our lives are based on highly self referential machinations, right? How does everything relate to me? Where do I fit in? And maybe I'm just being, you know, revealing the interiority of my perverted landscape. But when I look at my own mind and life, it's like, so much of my life is you know, neurotically self referential, right, I mean mind. And so we recite these mantras. I mean, look at your mind. I heard one psychologist a couple years ago. 90% of the thoughts, I think it's an underestimation. 90% of the thoughts we have today are exactly the same thoughts we had yesterday. Right? All variations on one rather perverted theme. I mean, mine. And so what we're doing here that is really quite remarkable is we're always meditating, right? I've mentioned this earlier. We're always practicing. Basically, we're always practicing samsara. When that's, that's our default mode meditation. In fact, you could say we have accomplished samsara. Right? Maybe I'll point to specimen a, I have accomplished samsara confusion. Why? Because I practice it all the time. Every time I recite one of the self referential discursive mantras I'm practicing samsara. Whenever things referred back to me, I'm distracted. I'm practicing samsara. And so the genius of the Tantra is it takes on this unconscious process of self referencing these discursive contractive self referencing mantras, and it replaces them. So instead of having this constant loop, this narrative loop, because this, I mean, again, there's so much going on here. When we think about the self sets altogether, right? I mean, neuroscience will tell you this physics will tell you this the wisdom traditions will tell you this all in residence here. The sense of self the ego is a total fabrications confabulation. It's a construct called the compound sounds good. It's a total construct. The ego yourself sense when you think you are is a total construct. And how is it constructed mostly by narrative? Ego is a narrative. It's an ongoing, relentless storyline. And so basically, these these particular storylines are iterated expressed in the discursive chatter of our background mind, which keeps keeps the some scar you know that the samsaric mind is clicking away at samsaric mantras, depending on who you talk to anywhere from 10 to 60,000 times a day, clicking away and reciting these. And so this is what puts us deeper into sleep into non lucidity in the archetypal sense. This is how we unconsciously unwittingly practice confusion practice samsara. So mantra is fantastically effective efficacious in terms of replacing the unconscious process of samsara. Distraction. With the conscious practice of you can say really nirvana of awakening is every time you're distracted, literally etymologically pulling apart from reality pulling apart from the present moment. Every time you remember, your healing, joining and mantras are designed in this capacity to heal. So I'm gonna just mention the other two. I mean, these are three of the main principle kind of ingredients. One mantra protects the mind from distraction number two, I'll get back to this next time. Mantra protects us protects the mind from ordinary appearances. And this is this is super big deal. One of the reasons we suffer is because a parent's is not in harmony with reality. We think we exist while we appear to exist, but in essence, we don't. We think death is real. Well, appears to be in an unexamined way, right? That seems to be real, but it's not. Death is also an illusion because if you don't exist, who dies, what dies and so as we'll see, in the really sophisticated way mantra protects from ordinary parents it actually helps us identify with more evolved dimensions of our being because when we read sacred sounds, we are in fact, almost literally tuning in to the awakened sacred quality of reality by inviting invoking these qualities that awakened mind within us the mantras work, both interiorly and exteriorly.

And then the last thing they do again, just for now, is and I'll say a ton about this is mantras also protect us from involuntary rebirth. And again, much, much more on that. So today, what I wanted to do was just take an initial shot at this amazingly profound topic, which I want to unpack in my upcoming sessions with you again, we'll be alternating with Joseph, and Jeffrey, but when I'm with you for the next couple months, actually, I'm going to be really focusing on this because to me, personally, like I mentioned, it's been a colossal factor in my own path. And the more I work with it, the more I appreciate it. And the more we understand it, so all the refunding we'll be doing is to help us understand mantras, okay, like, why am I doing these? You know, when when my teacher says I want you to recite a million mantras I want you to recite 100,000 100 syllable mantras. Do you know how long that takes man? You know, I want to know when my teacher tells me to do that. Or excuse me, oh, why am I doing this? And so I have dug really deep into this. And for me, understanding how do these work where do they work? Where did they come from? You know, just the deep exploration of the Sonic nature of mind. The Sonic nature of reality how this works with karma. I mean, the implications are extraordinary. But for today in order to allow a little time for conversation, also sharing of perhaps how this experience was for you. I want to return again for just a minute or two, reciting this mantra, and one tip, we'll explore this a little bit later. This is a fantastic mantra to recite for Dream yoga practitioners because it's a Dream Yoga mantra. First time I started teaching this in public, I only did this for the first time in Ibiza in Spain this year, and it was fantastically successful. A number of people said wow, boy, lucid dreams, right. So as a way I'll say more about this later within the context of nightclub introducing the sacred sound for now. When you go to sleep at night, if it resonates with you, instead of having ruminations and all the usual stuff that's like you lie down at night boy, you lie down, your thoughts stand up right all this chatter and all the commentary and all the whatever from the day or when you wake up in the middle of the night and the gotta dues, right? The gotta do mantras are running through your head tomorrow. I gotta do this. I got to do that and all the mantras associated with that. Well now you have a way to replace that. Go to sleep tonight. I might recommend you to recite at least 21 of these mantras. You can recite them very, very quickly. By the way, the power whether the power whether you're saying it out loud, whispering it or mental recitation the power is the same. Whether you're doing it slow, fast, the power is the same. So I tend to click these monitors by rather quickly. I don't when I'm saying them, but you should do with what speaks to you what relates and resonates with you if a slower recitation really speaks to you stick with that. If you'd like to click by with a more rapid clip, stick with that. But maybe tonight, is you go to sleep and maybe what a fantastic way to introduce Eastern sleep hygiene. When you go to sleep from now until that you attain enlightenment. Recite this mantra recite is let this sacred sound wash over you let your mind bathe in the sacred sound. And notice how perhaps it starts to perfume your night. Notice the power of these beautifully sacred sounds. Notice how we can infuse your mind your heart and how we can actually perfume the way you sleep and dream. So just for a minute or two and then we'll open it up for some q&a and discussion. Go ahead and close your eyes. Again for a second.

In whatever kind of pace works for you, you don't have to do it the way I do it. Fast or slow. Let's recite this again together for a few minutes and see how it feels.

On new on new on new OEM, new OEM new on new tires on new tires on new tires on new tires on new tires, on New on, new on new on new tires on new tires on new I'm new I'm new on new. New New. NEW

NEW NEW NEW and they may again they crescendo into a semi audible whispered recitation. Mental recitation.

And then we released the mantra and rest in the ultimate mantra silence

Okay. So after any questions or comments, I will check that chat column or any offerings How was this for you? Did you notice anything?

Okay

Yes, can you please tell us what is meant by mantra? Yes mind protection, right. Who created this mantra Tsongkhapa. We says the farthest I can get TSO and t s o n g k AP tone kappa TSO ng k APA the father of the gelukpa tradition as far back as I can track it. Ah, yeah, thank you for typing that we are slow down sound the lightweight is a walking bundle of frequencies. tuned to the cosmos tunes to the Cardinals okay, I'm just making sure I'm not missing anything. Yeah, so you can you can recite this 21 times Joe. You can recite it any number of times that speaks to you. But there is some I mean, again, I'm I'm not that you can click you can click this off. It's great to just have this perfuming your mind. You know, I mean, for me, I love my discursive thoughts. I love Led Zeppelin. I love Chopin and I love Beethoven. I love having all this music and stuff running through my mind. Well, why not have the music of the spheres? Why not have the music of the awakened mind running through your mind? So eventually you will find the more you do this. Just like any other practice, the more you do this practice, the more it will do you. Eventually the mantra starts to do you and you will find that you're you're reciting it all the time. But for now, 21 bras is a nice kind of workable start. Yeah, at this point, Joe, breath, work with the recitation. Don't worry about that. Just whatever works for you. You don't have to worry about the coordination of the recitation with breathing. Ah, yes, Krishna Das chanting that's a slightly different invocation using kirtan same principles but also different application of sacred sound. I love Krishna Das to listen to I have a podcast interview with him as well. He's always gonna say he's a rock star, but he's a kirtan star. I love this guy. And so he's deeply into sacred sound in the term of in the form of kirtan. This is a dream or this a mantra is a dream. This is a dream or this mantra of both that question is not clear to me, James. You have to clear that up for me but I usually don't have this problem with the station but I had to do with my eyes open because I found it to be kind of trance inducing. Depends on what type of trance you're talking about. If you're talking about your trance that brings you into a Samadhi state, resonant state. This is one reason why shamanic shamanic traditions do rhythmic drumming and all that kind of repetitive thing. It is to get you into trance trance of wisdom meditative absorption Samadhi so depends on how you're relating to that transmission. You can say a little bit more about that if you'd like but anyway, Kimber is here. Hi, Kimber. Unmute yourself. Hello. I'm unmuted. Nice to see you fire away.

You too. I just wanted to offer my gratitude for having received a sacred mantra from an unbroken lineage.

You received it from your teachers in an unbroken lineage, and it's, it's a deep honor to receive it. So they're very, very kind to say that it's actually a type of long so thank you. For sharing that very sensitive of you appreciate it. very gracious. Did you have anything else Dr. Or oh, there you go. I guess not. Thank you. Very, very sensitive comments. Okay, Dr. J. A mute

Hi, Andrew. I'd like to ask you about, you know, this session where you were saying, you know, you say the mantra and when you're going to sleep. And the question I have is, you know, first of all you're talking about doing the 21 times, and other times, it seems like he just keeps saying that until you go to sleep, or do you just keep saying it and then try and go to a period of silence.

It depends, you know, at this point, the reason I mentioned 21 Jerry is that this is a classic number for recitations. Especially when you're doing something like transitioning into sleep because otherwise, as you might suspect, if you're a little bit too tight with a mantra, and you're and you're reciting it, you know much more than that, then it can it can actually keep you awake. But here's the way I might recommend is see how it works for you see how the sound relates to you see if you feel inspired to recite it longer than that. I mean, if there's part of you that says Whoa, this is really kind of awesome. You know, certainly not going to do anything wrong. I mean, these are sacred sounds right. But if you recite it with a little bit too much vigor perhaps at the outset, excuse me, you may find that it's actually difficult to fall asleep eventually, again using this kind of diminuendo de crescendo. thing, you recite the mantra is you start to go down. You can do 21. Again, I want to do complicated. You can do 21 allow 21 Whisper 21 mental and then and then drop the whole thing. So at this point I don't want to give too many instructions. I would rather you just play with it, explore it, get in tune with it. And just see what it does. Just be a curious remember, just be a curious, see what the sacred sound does. And then when we have a chance to get together again. We can refine it. We can talk a little bit more about it. But classically, this is the way kind of beginners level. Start relatively conservatively relatively short, just as a way to kind of give your mind a nice gentle push as you go to sleep. And then just let it go. Okay,

okay. Thanks, Andrew.

Hey, Robert, how are you yourself?

Thanks, Andrew. I wish I had this mantra last night when I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't go back to sleep for four hours.

Now you do it backwards.

So my question is, do people feel this mantra as a vibration in in specific areas of their body? So when we did the mantra together you know, I really felt it felt it powerfully in my heart area, which kind of surprises me.

Yeah, well, first of all, great question. I'm sorry, did I cut you off? Was there something else? You only know what but I,

since I'm not familiar with mantra practice, I'm wondering is, are there mantras that are intended to awaken the heart or is this one of them? Is this a hard practice or?

Well, yes, this is this mantra is specifically designed for dream and sleep yoga. And so, you know, it has this kind of multi purpose, a use, some other matters are very specifically targeted, you know, like Bucha mantras in some Tantras. The very specific mantras associated with each of the main chakras going down the central channel, and then, I mean, all it gets quite sophisticated. But this particular mantra is designed to work at the level of a heart and the level of the throat. And so the fact that you would have resonance with it at the heart center is fantastic. And that's why I wanted to be a little bit more open ended up first to simply see where in fact, it does resonate with you. And whether that resonates actually changes the more like, excuse me, the more you play with it, the more you'll recite it. But one of the things that these these chakras are these mantras do jumping a little bit ahead in terms of how they work. Well, one of the ways they work they work on many levels, one of the ways they work is they work with opening the subtle body. They're designed to open the chakra systems open the channel systems, and that's why very often you feel this kind of resonance and opening there. I often feel them like depth charges, like depth charges of wisdom and sanity. When I feel them going in and just going boom, boom, it is opening me. So I'm going to be just a little bit reserved about saying too much about the specificity of where these things are aiming. Because again, I don't want to shrink your territory with the map. It's better for you to explore it. Trust your experience, trust what you're feeling, and then with questions like yours, then I can perhaps supported PRN as needed, instead of just saying oh geez, you're gonna feel that there and if you don't feel that there are your lousy mantra recite or so I think it's more important. Like what the sound, let it wash over you. Literally see how it relates and resonates. And then also see how it changes but what they one of the things the mantras do this so beautiful, and this is part of the protection is they they really to me invite this exquisite sense of interiority, they invite me in, you know, to really to just feel what's happening within because the subtle body as I'll talk about later, the subtle body which subsumes you know, it's the infrastructure of the gross body is made of sound and light, the sound of light of the mind. And so this is part of what mantras protect us from they protect us from exclusive identification without or form. This ego gross body and they invite us to this deeper dimension of our being subtle level dimension of our being, which is precisely the level of body and mind that's activated when we dream. And so that's exactly why this particular monitor is designed to wake up the subtle body engaging more specifically as a way eventually to work with lucidity at this foundational level. So much, much more to say, but in short, yeah, you know, you're speaking you're getting it. Thank you. Okay. Okay, James, hold on for one second. I'll have you on mute one second. Let me just go through real quick some of the chat and then we'll get you I love the final mantra peace of your explanation that part of the mantra of silence emptiness. This was beautiful. What did you call it? Well, it's called the it's literally the ultimate mantra. Ultimate mantra. Silence. So that's that's what I was referring to there. Yeah, Barry's talking about my interview with Katie. This guy's I just love Katie. From Tim I felt like I was on the edge of a gentle Whirlpool being drawn gradually to the center high five I would love to know some type of translation. You know, don't translate it, but don't translate it. Let the sound let the magic of the sound itself work on you. Even though you said it is not necessarily made vector. Some of these are literally untranslatable. I mean some some things are not literally designed to be translated, which is why you never translate from one thing you don't translate Sanskrit mantras into any other language. I mean, the language itself is sacred. When I was in Varanasi that year. I told you. I went to the Sanskrit university there and I spent the afternoon with a Sanskrit scholar. And he was amazing. And one of the things he said he goes, you know, Sanskrit is the language along with Latin that is most literally most in tune with reality. It's the sound of reality, the sound of the awakened mind. And so he said the great cities said as Rishis on the great magicians of the past, one of the ways that they could accomplish their miracles was because when they were their mastery of Sanskrit was such that they can actually master the elements. Do that do it that what you like, why is this good? For dreams? I have a lot more to say about that. That's a whole talker too. So stay tuned. The recitation became translate. It felt a bit like my mind was getting involved in sticking to itself somehow, like something that should need to be cut rather than allowed. Yeah, Lynne, I'd have to chat with you a little bit more. I mean, monitors are designed to unstick so I'd have to see exactly what what was seemed problematic to you about that. kind of tricky to do with just a little chat bar thing. It's a slightly interesting comment that without some dialogue with you, I'm not sure what I can say. Okay, cool. All right, James fire away but a couple more.

Oh, yeah. Well, thank you. relative newbie. I just picked up your lucid dreaming work about a month ago but I'm really fascinated by it. And so the question that I was asking, I have a couple of questions. The first one is, you know, in the workbook you mentioned, you know, I've been trying to do this recommend whatever I'm doing walking around or driving, just telling myself this is a dream. This is a dream. This is a dream. And so I guess I was I was wondering whether or not the monitoring would be something to do rather than this is a dream or just do the monitor and night before I go to sleep. Is that what it's designed for rather than doing it throughout today?

Well, you can't do it throughout the day. Again, there's so much to say here, James, because I mentioned very briefly like, mantras protect from ordinary appearance. Well, what mantras do is they cut through ordinary parents and so a daytime application so I'm today just introducing the nighttime application, but you can absolutely positively recite this during the day. I mean, absolutely. And it will it can serve. The magic of mantra is to is to protect you from ordinary parents, which is the mistake to take this phenomenal world to be reified, solid, lasting, independent, real dualistic So fundamentally, mantras are designed at the basic level to cut through the appearance of duality, to cut through the appearance of a reified, seemingly external world. And so this is just again part of their their multi Vaillant usage, you know, they this particular monitor will help you with Dream Yoga, particularly at night. But it's also connected to the daytime practice, which is the practice of illusory form, which is like seeing the world as a dream. So that's a deeper rendering of it that it cut. It protects us from ordinary parents because it helps us cut through the deluded appearance. of duality itself. So they go pretty deep.

Okay, great. I try during the season as well. Just one other question. And this relates very calming and relaxing. I guess I'm just curious. I've also dabbled a bit in polyvagal theory and whether or not this has the effect of impacting the vagus nerve or the central nervous system.

I have to look specifically about the that whole polyvagal theory and its relationship to monitors but I would suspect again, I can't say with any authorities just shooting blindly from the hip here. To me, it would seem that there would be some resonance with that, but I'm going to reserve any thing resembling a definitive comment because I'd have to look more deeply into that but it would make sense to me.

Okay, thank you very much.

Welcome. Okay, Candy one last one. Maybe unless there's another buzzer shot one. mute yourself. There you go. Hi.

So um, I have been doing the 21 breaths although I don't ever get to 21 before I've conked out about you know, like I'm dreaming or this as a dream or whatever. Is there like? I took one of your classes that you talked about this particular mantra, is there an order to do it in or a reason to do one other than the other or both?

That's a really great question. Yeah, the mantra is a little bit more sophisticated. So it's a little bit more subtle. And so the the 21 breath thing number one I'm dreaming to I'm dreaming 3am Dreaming. That's a little bit more kind of entry level. It doesn't dismisses efficacy, but but it makes them a little bit more entry level. So you again, this is one of the great ways to work and play with these nocturnal meditations. If you're finding that your mind is, you know, relatively stable, settled as you're actually going to sleep, then you could replace the more entry level. One I'm dreaming to, I'm dreaming with 21, or more recitations of the mantra, and then just see simply see what it invites and see where it takes you. If you find that your lie down and your mind is the little spinny still learn clipping moving, I would still recommend the one I'm dreaming to I'm dreaming, get to 21 and then transition into the mantra. See, so it really the one really interesting thing about Dream Yoga. That can also be a little bit frustrating. For people is you become your own meditation instructor. Nobody knows your mind better than you. Nobody knows your idiosyncrasies, and your foibles better than you. And so it's very easy to kid ourselves. It's very easy to delude ourselves and so, some of these guidelines are given as that guidelines. But eventually, we're all different. We have particular ways of relating to these practices in the way we sleep, which is why there's so many different techniques. Because we all have these different wavelengths. We relate to things differently. So if people have like, Whoa, I really liked this macho thing I really connected this. I mean, who am I to say no, go back and do the breathing thing and then do that. But as a general rule, if the mind is a little speedy, you know, little windy, I still recommend the 21 breaths. then transition into the mantra if you're already pretty pacified, the mind is already pretty settled. You may eventually find that you can hopscotch over the breathing thing and go to the slight, slightly more subtle and advanced approach. thing.

I had a really delicious dream this morning, speaking up about a really dear friend of mine who actually turned me on to you. About eight years ago, before she passed, she mentioned you and the book. And doing that mantra just now kind of took me back into that space and it was delicious.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it so much. Okay, Dr. J, buzzer buzzer shot my friend. Unmute yourself. You're muted. And then this will

be just a little confused about you know, it started off with I am you know, number one, you know, I'm sleeping number two, I am sleeping. I'm dreaming. I'm dreaming. I'm dreaming excuse. And then you go to the mantra that you gave today, and I'm not quite sure how it fits in with your comment about breath work.

Well, I didn't really have a comment on my breath work tonight. Oh, okay. Now the breath work thing. The breath work is done. Again, if you want to sequence all this stuff. And again, I didn't mention that if you want to do the breath work thing you do a nine fold purification before you even get to bed. So I'm not going through the whole eastern Western sleep hygiene thing. That's not my reference today. So that's why I didn't say anything about that. But if you're going to do the breathwork, the pranayama the the nine fold thing you do that before we even get to bed. What I was basically responding was a more personal response to what Kenny was saying about her own experience. That you know, she's she was familiar with doing the one on breathing. I'm sorry, one I'm dreaming, too. I'm dreaming. You know, this is just a way to kind of count your way down into sleep. And basically, I was suggesting for her just to reiterate that if she's already can't even get to 21 which is actually quite, quite fine. She may try experimenting with his mantra to replace that. So this is you know, the trick with the trick with some of these nocturnal meditations is there yes, we can we can pigeonhole we can make some some kind of general guidelines and classical recommendations. But we're all so different. We all sleep in such different ways. That's why these there's these variabilities and that's why there's dozens of different induction techniques period. And so I give more or less somewhat classic approaches, augmented with my understanding of both Eastern and Western sleep hygiene protocols. And then from there, there's just there's a tremendous amount of leeway we can play with it. We there's so much we can dance with. And that's one of the things that makes the actual meditations simultaneously exhilarating and a bit frustrating. Because the cookie cutter approach, I mean, some people do and I find it way too tight. I find it a little bit more interesting to play with it in this way. And then what happens is a person has some experiences, they come back they share some stuff then there might be like with my candy was saying then there might be some more modifications. But eventually you start to realize what works and doesn't work for you. That's the whole point. And then you realize this is this is really my sweet spot. This is what I need to do and until then, we insert these different techniques. We fumble. We trial, you know, what did people Rinpoche say, airing and airing I walked the unerring path right mistake after mistake I walked the unmistaken path and slowly we find our way

and that's it. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, everybody. So nice to see you. Oh, yeah. Drink. Yes, exactly. So this week. We've got the Thursday book study thing. We've got the wonderful sessions on Saturday with Marianne so come to those otherwise, in that, you know, I'll be around. I can't remember who's doing next week. I always have to look at my calendar but I'll be back for sure to continue this little discovery ramp. romp through the magic of mantras. So thanks, everybody. Great to see you. If dedication of merit means something to you just bring it all together. Send everything we've done here for the benefit of all sentient beings. throughout time and space. Until then, talk to everybody see you later. recording stopped