Inclusion Stories - Chapter 5: An Experiment in Hope

10:33PM Dec 20, 2023

Speakers:

Tim Villegas

Kristin Enriquez

Sevi Enriquez

Jaiker Cham

Carolina Valero

Keywords:

inclusion

damien

teachers

school

students

classroom

natalia

maryland

families

class

practices

special ed teacher

disabilities

year

day

inclusive

educator

great

intellectual disability

inclusive education

Hi friends, it's Tim Villegas from the Maryland Coalition for inclusive education. And you've hit play on Chapter Five of inclusion stories, our five part podcast series that tells the stories of families, educators and school systems on their journey to full and authentic, inclusive education for each and every learner. If you haven't heard the other four chapters, please do. Of course, you're gonna do what you want, which is totally fine. I just want to make sure you get the context of this chapter. Because, frankly, there is going to be a lot of me in this one. When I started this podcast series, I had in my mind that I was going to show the world what a truly inclusive school was, I had very specific ideas of data points, and practices that must be present in order for a school to own this distinction. And what I've come to realize is that much like many things in life, it is not as clear cut and straightforward as we all would like it to be. To start us off, I need to take you back in time. Here. Step into my time machine. I know, I know, it's bigger on the inside. Okay. Are you ready? So background 2011 And mind you I was still a fairly new southerner. We had just moved to the Atlanta metro area in 2008. I was a teacher in a segregated special education classroom for students with severe and profound intellectual disabilities. Yeah, I don't like the name either. But that is what it was called. I was already getting the reputation of being the inclusion guy around my district. So when the Georgia Department of Education wanted to run a pilot inclusion program for students with intellectual disabilities, I was asked if I wanted to participate. And of course, I said, Yes, I mean, this was huge. Imagine the implications if this program was successful. That consultant was brought in to work with me during the pilot. And as we were figuring out which one of my students would be a good fit for the program. We settled on Damien, a boy with multiple disabilities, who loved being with his peers. One of the first memories I have of working with Damien's family was being on the phone with his mom and her imploring me that she didn't want her son to be left behind or forgotten about. And so I made it my mission to make sure that Damien was given access to everything that every other student had access to. Our journey started in first grade. And guess what happened? It was successful, even more successful than I thought it would be. Not a surprise if you've been paying attention throughout this series. I just want to pause here to say that Damien's inclusion was really only possible because he had a paraprofessional with him the entire time. And I think that's the only way the school or district allowed it to happen, because he had this level of support. Now, did he actually need it? Yes. But an unintended consequence of this success was that now it was message to the school in the district that inclusion really just meant a paraprofessional, implementing supports, that's not inclusion. But at the time, I thought it was, and so did a lot of other people. In 2011, our team went to the task Conference in Atlanta to present on the inclusion pilot, there was a proud moment. But as I look back on this experience, I realized that what we did was just for Damian, and while it benefited him, and all the students and staff that knew him, did it change the system that segregated him to my classroom in the first place? I mean, this was the point of the whole exercise. If it were up to my principal or district administrators, teachers would have to opt in to inclusive classrooms, and make sure everyone is happy, including the families before we did anything like this again, these are the conversations we were having inclusion, only if you want it. But for Damian, we continued, he was included for a larger portion of his day each year in second, third, fourth, and fifth grade. And by the time he was in fifth, he was included for over 80% of his day in general education. Overall, inclusion for him was successful, because we plan for it, and he got the support that we plan for at the end of the day. 2014 2015 school year as he was headed to middle school Damien received the Citizenship Award. Let's listen in here's a Kincaid Damien has exceeded expectations, including myself, not mine are pretty high. One of the first conversations I had with Damien's parents was about their concern that he would get stuck because of low expectations. And the tendency for people not to push Damien because they didn't know what he was capable of, was such strong advocates as parents, they are just as responsible for Damian success as he is. We start including Damian in general education in first grade for a portion of the day, and each subsequent year were more successful and increased the time. This year he spent most of the day in the Mrs. McGowan's fifth grade class. And we're happy to report that he has been a full participant in that classroom community. But also more importantly, he has been a full citizen here at Kincaid Elementary School. This success falls into Simpson Middle School, where he is slated to attend general education segments throughout his day to ensure that he continues not to get stuck. So with that in mind, it's my greatest pleasure to award Damien Boyd Jr. The Citizenship Award.

One of the teachers that Damian had was so inspired after having him in her classroom, she decided to leave the general education classroom and work in a segregated self contained classroom for students with intellectual disabilities. Certainly not the outcome that I would have wanted. As the school team was planning for Damien's transition to middle school, the special education director told me that guess what Damien was reassessed, and he isn't in the severe and profound intellectual disability range. He was in the moderate intellectual disability range. So isn't it great. Now that we know where he belongs, he can go to a lesser restrictive environment. And of course, the middle school just didn't know what to do with including him because they've never done it. And it seemed like his teacher was just going through the motions. In fact, I know of school staff that called the whole thing a joke, and inappropriate, not the outcome I would have hoped for as we head back into the present. I've been wondering if all the work we did with Damien, was worth it. So I reached out to Damien's family, and one chilly fall morning. We met in their living room.

It wasn't hard to find wasn't no. Before I remember. Kind of. I was like, this looks too.

Good to see. He's literally just finished. Breakfast.

Okay, great.

Jamie, you say hi, Mr. Tim. What's up?

Amy? Hi. Hi. Just had breakfast. Damian, how old are you now?

How old? Are you? 1919

years old. And you're a senior? You're right. You're Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. So you're 19 you're a senior, something that I've come to understand a little bit better. And like where I've grown to, as far as my thinking about inclusion. You know, when we first started, including Damien. I thought that, well, if we could get Damien included in first grade, and then second, and then for, you know, third, fourth, and when he was but by the time he was in fifth grade, he was in for a majority of the day. I was thinking if people see this, and people will see the success it'll spread through the school. And I think for the most part, people did see it as successful. There were definitely people that didn't, but what I think I missed is that the principal need to be the one to lead the work in this. Not a special ed teacher in potty. You know what I mean? Because no matter how successful we were, I was still seen as that teacher in pot a.

You know, I think you were seen as more than that. Well, okay. Look for the rest Have you ever seen as an innovator, but innovation isn't always easy? Yeah. And I think you have a point if you're not bought in. If the whole school is not bought in, then it's short lived. Now, once again, I think there was a great benefit to the kids who experienced it. Absolutely. And I think it out, you know what I also noticed, I noticed that teachers that were the mainstream class teachers they grew to, yes, I watched them develop, and I watched them go from. I'm frustrated by this, too. Oh, I have a good idea. Oh, maybe we can figure this out. Or I think this would be a good thing to do with Damien. So I think what I enjoyed is I enjoyed when the lights went on with those teachers. And they started to think about him as easily as they thought about the other kids. And it was always a journey, just like, in August, they're frustrated. In September, they're quizzical. They're wondering, by October, they're excited. And by the end of the year, he was one of their favorite students. And they were like, I'm going to miss him. There was one teacher I remember, of the science class that he was in. And she was trying to figure out, she was totally frustrated. She was trying to figure out how to engage a man and, you know, we bring him over and we had to go in and show Hey, his world is within about two feet of his chair. That's all of his world. Oh, so I have to bring him in closer. Yes. And then brought him in closer and they're talking about Earth Science. I remember. And, you know, she's talking about something and Damien's a soil erosion. And she went, Yes, soil erosion. She didn't realize that he was learning and he was listening the entire time. And he knew the answer. He knew it. And she knew that he knew it. And when she said, Yes, he cracked up laughing and the whole class got it. But once again, she had to understand, oh, I can't just look at the surface. He has more going on. And if I give him the information, it's not up to me to it's not up to me to make sure he has it. It's just I need to let him let me know, that he captured and, and it really made a difference for now, like I said, Not only him but other people in the class, because she didn't know that that was something he absolutely knew. But that's how it works. But if you don't have a bot, in principle, then you may change. You don't change the generations of students, can you change a classroom? It's smaller impact. Yeah, it's still impact, but it's small.

I've been thinking a lot about impact. What will the impact of this podcast series be? Who in a school district do we need to focus on to increase the leverage to move inclusive practices forward? And what impact can a single teacher have in a system that isn't inclusive? Now, I've promised you some updates on our friends sevi, Harper and Natalia. And don't worry, we are going to get to them. But before we say hi to them, I want you to meet a former colleague of mine that knows a thing or two about trying to change a system from within.

My name is Shari McCreary. And I am a former supervisor for students with disabilities in a school system. And I worked with students of intellectual disabilities, autism, behavior disorder. Sure.

And I know each other professionally, and, Shari, I think you knew that inclusion was important to me.

Yes. Yeah. I've always known that.

Yeah. And you've also known that I tried wherever I was my best to change hearts and minds, practices toward inclusion. Yes, yeah. Yeah. What do you think was the really the barrier? You

know, I and I go back to this story. When I was teaching in middle school, of course, self contained. And we started a Friends Program. Yeah. In the back of my head, a friends program doesn't do it. That's not inclusion, right. But it was the best I could do at that school with that administration with that staff. Now, I will say, by the end of the year, teachers were coming in and talking to the kids. But that was, you know, the term reverse inclusion, basically, you know, we were making cookies, and, you know, selling them in the school, but the students were never invited. To go into the gen ed classroom, it was like, it was okay, as long as they were, you know, here, and I'll come see them. You know, which brings me to another barrier that I feel like, is true. And like, I feel like a lot of the teachers don't feel prepared to work with students with disability.

Yeah, I don't think I don't think educators in general are, like, purposefully trying to, you know, separate or segregate students or treat students any differently, right. It's just, if you're not used to being around people who have a certain profile, you know, are autistic, or, you know, have an intellectual disability? Or if you're not used to it, you don't know how to act you out? No,

I've also had an experience where a teacher has said to me, I'm not sure how the other students will accept them in the classroom. And she didn't know how to handle that. You know, which is a valid thing, but that's also teaching the other students in like labs, about disabilities, you know, and everybody's different.

Don't you think? That's why though, like, it, it should be coming. Like, it's like, it's great when teachers and, and like gen ed, and special ed teachers come together and make something work, right. It's great. But that's not sustainable. Yeah. Right. So it really needs to come from the top, it needs to come at least from the principal.

Absolutely. What is always stuck out in my head is my principal came in to my self contained, high school classrooms severe profound, housed in a trailer at an elementary school. But, but she walked in, and I did a lesson, I can't even remember what it was geometric shapes or something. And the students all had their devices. They were answering questions. And she looked at me and said, You always told me they can learn. But now I see it. Night. Yeah. But he's still that. Let me take those students out into gen ed. I think as a culture, we need to help teachers explore their own beliefs. Right, because I don't think they really thought about it. Don't have time, they've got pressure from the state to get these standards taught and all that, but what are their true beliefs? Yeah, and if they recognize that, that would be a starting point, or somebody to help them, you know, in their classroom and stuff. Most

people don't go into special education. Without a reason. Right, you know, right. Like,

well, I can tell you my reason. Yeah, please. Right out of high school. No, I was a senior in high school, and I started volunteering. Okay, it's gonna make me tear up, started volunteering with students with disabilities in the basement of a church. And every time I would go there, I would think, why are they in that basement? Why are they downstairs in a basement? They it just got to me. And I mean from day one of college at the University of Alabama. I was in special ed. I was going to as Special Ed teacher, and make a difference, right? Tried, you know, got there. The guy that teaching degree got my, you know, masters, my specialist and my doctorate. But it's hard to make a change in a system that's not there yet in their thinking. Right. So I was like you, I tried to do small things within each building on within, you know, to make it there. But, I mean, that's why I started, why are these children in the basement of a church?

As I wrapped up with Shari, I just had one more question. What do you tell teachers who are stuck in a system that is not inclusive?

It may not be in your time. But what about that next teacher and that next teacher, right, and that next student, the opportunity, so you're always fighting for that student to have that opportunity. So you can't give up? You don't give up? You and I didn't give up. We didn't leave the system, because we didn't have full inclusion. Right. So what you do is you start getting the students out as much as possible, anywhere possible. If it's PE, if it's arch, if it's start, start there, but more importantly, start having open honest conversations with the staff at your school.

After a short break, we'll catch up with the families of sevi. Harper and Natalia.

Christine sevi what's up? What's going on? Yeah,

yeah.

You're enjoying our last day of summer school starts tomorrow. Oh,

yeah. Yeah, my kids started. August 1. Oh, no, already? Yeah. Yeah, that's

the earliest I've heard. Wow. Yeah, it's

a Georgia thing. So it's what it's August, and we saw each other in January. Right. So it's been a been a few months. And the last time we talked, if I remember correctly, you were still having IEP meetings, and trying to figure out what the rest of the school year was going to look like. So what, what what was the outcome for this year? Did it didn't get better? Is it worse, like what happened?

You want to talk about second semester?

It was really hard. It was hard. Yeah.

Why was it hard?

It was hard because there are no supports. They wouldn't let me use the markers for coloring, coding book color coding. They thought I was carrying about I'm not my macros helped me understand.

So it sounds like they they weren't too accommodating. Yeah, no. Yeah,

it was rough. I mean, we saw some growth, which I think in any freshman, you know, who's starting over in a whole new situation, especially someone like savvy, who has so many moving parts to his program, he changed school, he changed all his teachers, he changed his ad change every provider except for two, who had more of an itinerant role. So he completely started over. So we did see, we did see growth from first semester to next semester. If you look at kind of a GPA perspective, if you look at, you know, what, what did he, how did he interact with material? How did he do homeworks kind of as his overall ethic, I think that improved, but it was rough. You know, we had a get a lot of meetings, a lot of meetings, and we had very little movement. So he ended the school year in the in the state, the current state that we talked about in January, with lack of supports lack of full implementation of his IEP from my perspective, in terms of services and accommodations, and thankfully, though, for next year, we It looks like we're going to have those supports we had been working for in place and you know that The big question always is, you know, how is the staff going to respond? So we have the framework, but how is that going to be filled in? Because without, you know, without that collaboration, it's, it's doable, but it's really hard. I mean, it's really, really hard. And it's really stressful on him. It's stressful on me. And it just feels like a constant uphill battle. And I just, don't I just feel like it doesn't need to be that way.

What do you hope school leaders will learn from your story, savvy,

I want them to know that I can make friends in our classes, they basically feel happy. This makes me act like I burned out. Most of the kids don't care that I have data in them. But some do. I work hard, and I am support, I can do it. And then once I have a test to put on

it, if you had a school staff that already knew and felt, and it was a priority that said he felt like he belonged in that school in the school, then a lot of this just wouldn't even have to, it wouldn't be a fight. Right?

Right.

And, and really, you need one, you need one person. It doesn't seem like enough, but it is you just need one. And I'm just really struggling to find that one. And I don't know if it's just because it's high school. Because they're high. I mean, face it in high school, the focus is on the kids becoming adults and self advocating and doing all these things for themselves and taking ownership like the right becoming adults and being able to go off to the next step of their life and, and, and not need their parents to do all these things for them. Well, that's what I want for savvy. So why wouldn't we be doing that same thing for savvy as we would forever everybody else. But when you have a kid like savvy, who is not yet able to do all of those things for himself and need someone to help him represent his viewpoint and his voice and his mindset, or still needs that to be done for him, right? Because he's not there yet. Then why are we shutting that down? Like they're not used to parents being there, they're not really used to engaging with parents in that way, at a high school level. And so some of it, I think, is just the dynamic of high school. But there's also a mindset, you know, and in my area that is very different than the alignment with the vision that we have for my son. And that's been hard. You know, that's been hard. Because we, we will not budge from that I am a firm believer that there is nobody in this world that has the right to change my mindset for my son, other than my son. That's it. He's the only one who gets to tell me, you're wrong about that. Instead, we're doing this, right. And so I will not budge. And I'm happy to engage in conversation, to figure out how we can build capacity. And I understand it's a process. And I understand there's lots of many steps. And I understand there's a lot of perceived barriers. But if we can't engage in collaborative discussion, it's really hard to have any kind of movement

thanks for sharing that with me.

So just and Christina, why don't you just fill me in on kind of how how did the end of the last school year, like gopher Harper and in the family,

I mean, it went really well. She had a very good team in place. You know, there's always little hiccups here and there, but for the most part, communication from the school was great. You know, her, one of our teachers has her PhD and tons of specialized reading instruction, including special education and general education. And she has since left the county, which is unfortunate, but she did do a summer camp over the summer called Camp learn a lot. And Harper took her first test in science on the phases of the moon. And that was something that the teacher front loaded during the summer. And so she made an 80% on it, which was great, you know, because she already kind of knew the content. So it was really neat. It was neat to see her independently take a test and succeed you know, The ad is not great for some people, but I think it's amazing. So

that is amazing. Yeah. For sure, yeah.

So yeah, I mean, it went great. I mean, her team's great this year, she got to keep her same communication para, which was amazing. Of course, you know, I write letters at the end of the year, to everybody telling her how amazing she's doing with the pair on the support team, she has, please don't take it. And then like, you know, please, please don't change people,

I'll die. Like she made so much progress in school and was just, she's, you know, always excited to go to school and just just be with their friends and the teacher, the teachers and the team she had last year really, really pushed her but in a good way. Because she really grew a lot. And it was, it's exciting to see, and then they kind of continued it with her camps over the summer. And, you know, we're just really proud of the work she does. I mean, I don't, I could promise there's no one that works harder that school than then Harper Berry, so it's really cool to see. And, you know, she's, she used to be really bad at transitioning. But, you know, even just with the new school year with the new teachers, for some parts of the team are the same. But obviously, a lot changes when you move up to a grade level. She's, she's done really well, and continues to do well. So we're, we're excited with with the progress he continues to make that, you know, we know she wouldn't be making, if she was not not being included, you know, in regular education classes.

And she's a fourth grader now. Fourth grade? Well, you know, it's fresh in my mind, because I've really listened to our conversation, you know, which was like, over a year ago, but I think that what I kind of glean from all that is, when you have a really good teacher, you know, you're gonna learn, you know, like, in where are the best teachers, the best teachers are in general ed, not to say there aren't really great teachers that teach in special education classrooms. Well,

even for an example, like I can tell you since since her inception, I guess, into the school system, she had a very well qualified pre K teacher, especially his pre K teacher. But from the start of kindergarten in a unit, that teacher wasn't even certified no specialized reading instruction, same thing with the next year and the next year until we fully pulled her out of the unit. And now the difference is three of them have had PhDs, they've all had specialized reading instruction. And that's just sad. But that's the fact in our county. So like, I mean, the amount of progress she made in the last year and a half. So she went from, I guess it was the end of last year I not last year, but the previous year that I pulled her completely from the unit, which was the last section segment of the day she was in there was math. And she was barely recognizing or numbers past like 10, and whatever. And she went within a year and a half of that double digit adding and subtracting with proper supports. And, you know, it's sad, because there are kids sitting in that classroom right now, not the teachers not lovely, because she is very nice. She just doesn't have the qualifications. And, you know, you put kids at most risk for falling behind with the people with the least experience. It makes no sense to me, but I'm not Mike anymore for now.

Yeah, and that's a major problem. It's not just, you know, sure, you know, our county, your county problem, it's, it's nationwide teacher preparation. In the when you have inclusive schools have really strong, universal tier one core instruction, you know, there's a lot of different names for it. But, you know, if you have a really strong education core base, with any teacher, then it doesn't matter who was in that class, you're gonna, you know, there's going to be great teaching practices going on in that class. And that's what, that's what I've been learning, you know, through this whole situation, what would you say to an educator, like a teacher, or a principal, or maybe somebody in district leadership, that is like, Oh, I'm not I don't know about this inclusion thing. I it you know, in theory, it sounds nice,

but, you know, I, I just don't know. I feel like my biggest thing I would probably say is regardless what your county does or doesn't do or support, you, as a teacher have the opportunity to genuinely change a child's life, right and their trajectory, in doing so, like, for example, with my child, if she wasn't, I'll be at forced through our involvement in pushing things. If she weren't in this setting, she would not be making any progress. She'd be stuck, like a bump on the log and not learning. And that's, that's unfortunate and sad, and the fact that being an educator knowing you can actually make that type of a difference in a child's life, like, why would you not, like, even if it's scary, and it takes, you know, you know, maybe just take one little step at a time toward it, right? Like, what and start one thing at a time and, you know, find out ways to include a child and, you know, look at children, even just a shy child who's sitting there that doesn't socialize in the classroom, make it easy for all of them to do it. Like it's not just kids with disabilities, it's including everyone of any exceptionality. Right. So like, you wouldn't segregate a child based on their skin color or their hair color or eye color. Why would you do it based on abilities? Like that's, it makes no sense to me, you know? Yeah, I guess I guess that's yeah, give them a chance. There's no reason not to. They deserve it.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, their role, right, is to serve the community as a whole. And if you're not serving the community to its fullest, if you're segregating, it's never, segregation has never, ever proven to be the good thing at all. And so, including everybody, like Christina said, no matter what your cognitive levels, skin color, religion, hair color, you know, that should not matter which matters, inclusion, and learning from people from different backgrounds, and in different capacities. And so that's why inclusion is, is a must, you know, I see it all the time, just from the random interactions we have in our community with our peers, peers, and just how it loves seeing her there, Harper, Harper Harper, really, like, it's like, it's amazing how much other kids light up when they when they run into her, and how excited they are, they don't like shun from her, which would happen probably if she was like, often another room in the back of the school, right with, you know, in a different room, but because she's included, and because they know her and understand her

because it's the norm, like, that's just what's normally happened. And so I would also add that, you know, you as educators are building our next leaders, right, you're building these presidents and CEOs and CEOs, CFOs, whatever you want to call them. But I guarantee you, none of those people that succeed to that level will have not had to deal with people different than them. I mean, they're gonna have to learn how to interact with many different types of people on all different types of levels, not just, you know, just people with special needs, or what have you, but it it's gonna be all kinds of different people and to be successful in life. Those children have to be taught that at a very young age, and unfortunately, sometimes they aren't taught that in their families. And if you can be that, that changing factor even for a typically developing child who you can teach them the empathy that they're failing to get at home, by including children with exceptionalities you've just done that are not only them, but our whole community a favor, like a building. Good humans. Yeah.

Oh, man, great, great, great stuff. Really appreciate. Again, your participation in this and it's gonna be awesome

what's happened with Natalia? You had an IEP, you know, what's what's going on? What's the latest

this year was good. I can't complain. It was good. She has two good teachers not as good as last year as teacher. But they weren't good. Yes.

But then the placement meeting? Yeah.

So she's the same in a collab for next year. Eligibility was mild intellectual disability. speech or language impairment and I don't have the last one but they added visual impairment to

right okay. And so then right now her services are all being are all in that collab class, right?

Correct. such as getting pull out for one hour mass and one hour reading. Okay.

Is that With the special ed teacher that's in the collab class, or is it another special ed teacher?

Is this is a small group, it's called small group. But is this special ed teacher in a small group is no special special ed classroom? Because, you know, they only have the autism class, and they're

good. How do you feel about that? Do you still feel like it's been successful this year?

Yeah, I think she made a lot of progress in, in other areas, you know, we tend to only see the academic progress with this is what we get, and they report. But for me, what do you know, and that's how it gets home. And I tried to do some homework with her, and sometimes she will engage with me in NC she, she's like, moo, moo, moo, and everything she's supposed to do. But most days, she's like, I don't want to do schoolwork. Again, why don't we do this at home. But I've seen when that when she wants to work with me. She has made some like no amazing progress. But I think that for the general ed teacher, I explained to her, you know, as long as I see that she's making progress, even slow progress. That to me, is great, because she's growing in so many other areas, too, that she couldn't have that and, and then at the other school, or in a special ed setting, only, yeah, to

learning how to get back in line, they did go into a restaurant with a buddy coming back to the classroom, she's learning to do transition from class to recess to back to class, she's learning and she gets off the car. I dropped her off the car, and she her sister doesn't even wait for her. He just goes to her classroom straight without wandering off.

And she says hi to everybody. Good morning,

she rides their boss without getting in trouble for the most part.

So you know, what do you how do you think we could bring some more inclusion culture to? Why would it be a good approach?

I mean, you could, you could it just depends on how like, if you feel like you've got a good thing going with your, your local school, and then, you know, in developing relationships with them and and good practices for Natalia. But if you want to try to make a bigger impact, then then I would Yeah, I would talk with the director and be like, hey, look, this is what's happening with Natalia, we're really passionate about this, we'd love to see inclusive practices be more widely adopted. Once, once this podcast series is done, you can you can share it with them. I don't know if you have any other families of children with Down syndrome or other disabilities, that that you want to, like maybe have a little cohort, you know, like, advocacy

knows several families that actually very close in age with Natalia. Everybody else's approach on this thing is so different.

There is another girl with Down Syndrome and she's in kindergarten. And their parents are very educated. They work at at the university here. And I remember when Natalia was in kindergarten, she stopped me one day, and she said, Oh, I have a daughter with Down syndrome to and should be coming to this school. I hope so when they and I want to thank you for everything you have done, because I know it's hard. So that was nice to hear. But then this year, I saw her again. She's still in school. And she said, You know, I've heard all these stories about Natalia and how hard has been for you guys? And we haven't had any issues at this school. But my daughter, she's been in collab. She's included she has friends. It's been so easy for us. And I think it's all because of you ain't Natalia? It No, no, thank you for that. And, you know that that to me was you know all we have to fight if it's helping others, I mean, that's great.

That sounds like the thing you know, you want to make an impact, obviously, like that's your desire, but you definitely are already making and impact. You know, like, so like what you said about the families, you know, the family following in your footsteps. So I think I'd feel really good about that.

So, well, like you said to me, I think this what we're doing is infectious. And what we're doing and collusion. People that are smart. See that as a good thing? Right. Thanks for sharing that.

Well, we're right at our time. But is there anything else that you wanted to share before we close it up?

Well, no, we had, like I said, we had a great a great year, were thankful for, you know, all the opportunities we had. It wasn't perfect.

But we made it work, right. I mean, what good?

Yeah, it's just making progress. slow progress. isn't good.

Awesome. Awesome.

I don't know if you noticed any particular themes in the conversations we've had in this chapter. But I'll throw out some words and see if they resonate. Imperfect progress, impact, start mindset, action practices. And there's one more big one that jumps out at me hope. I was telling a podcaster friend of mine recently that this whole podcast series has been an experiment in hope, an experiment that if it does, what I hope it does, we'll move you to action, whatever your context. Okay, before I close this chapter out, I want you to meet some individuals that will help crank that hope meter up to 11.

I'm Kristin Burnett, I'm an assistant professor at East Carolina University, I brought my students to TASH because they saw inclusive practices for the first time this year. And they got to see a County in Maryland, and they had never seen inclusive practices. It's not something that is very accessible in North Carolina. So this was the first time and we had to go across many states to see it done in action. And we had to write a small grant to get them to be able to go on this trip. And so that was free to them. And this conference is also free to them because of this grants through VCU is the internal grant.

Right? And so we're at the task conference, and you have a poster presentation, right? And so what is what is on the poster like what like, what are you sharing in the poster.

So their poster presentation is about pre service teachers, perceptions of inclusivity, or variety of placement settings. Because in North Carolina, the only option for them is to see a self contained class. So I took them to a self contained class. And the first thing they did when they got back was they did a little video blog. I took that information, I put it in these quotes. And I've found some interesting themes. And one of the things they kept saying was I was pretty good. It was pretty good. And then I took them to Maryland, and they saw inclusive practices, and they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't know this was possible. This is amazing. What are we doing in North Carolina? Why aren't we doing this here? And just a lot of changing perceptions from what they thought was good to what they know now is the right thing. And that inclusion is a human right for all people. So awesome.

Okay, and so we have the students here. And so we'll just go we'll go from left to right.

My name is Madeline Pierce, I am currently a student at East Carolina University, studying special education. So for the trip for me when I kind of experienced inclusion and what it was was after I experienced and I like kind of decided and brainstormed was it felt a lot like common sense. Like it was something that felt so right and like what was really needed. It was just supposed to be like the norm. So it was really weird to kind of go in and see how different it was from how I grew up seeing it and how like awesome it was to see all the students and kids like collaborating along with the teachers and how each of them you know, we're like, oh, like we're not quite there yet or we don't like and but it was awesome to see that they were putting an effort and it was something they were really passionate about. And the thing that I said to Dr. Brunette after we were done was I hated her because Now I'm still going into schools in North Carolina now, and I'm doing practicums. And seeing students in the settings who aren't able to have like inclusion. It's upsetting because you see that like their potential and how much they could actually benefit from it, and they don't have the opportunity to. So I think it's like a motivator, and it makes me want to be an educator in that way and kind of provide that for them. So that was my standpoint, I just thought it was common sense. Basically,

uh, my name is Mackenzie wit and born I'm a student at East Carolina University, also studying special education. Before coming to Maryland, and like actually seeing inclusion, I knew it was a thing, but like, was never able to see it in North Carolina. My mom's a special educator in issues like he's always been self contained, like they're in their own bubble and their own island. And it's like, sometimes it feels like, they're not even a part of the school, because there's so secluded from everybody else. And then coming to Maryland and seeing, like, there wasn't even a separate setting classroom, it was everybody was in the same classroom receiving the same instruction with slight modifications and supports. And like, like she said, it was, it feels like it should be common sense. It should be practiced everywhere.

My name is Kinsey black, and I'm an undergrad student at East Carolina University, also majoring in special education. When I came to Maryland, My initial thought like when I saw these inclusive education practices, I was like, wow, like it's it's such a culture shock. Because I come from North Carolina, obviously, piggybacking off of these two, everything is so secluded and segregated when it comes to special education and to be able to come to Maryland and see like, all of these kids that are, they would be in a secluded setting in North Carolina to see it. in an inclusive setting in Maryland, I'm just like, this should be implemented everywhere. It shouldn't. It shouldn't be taking this long, and there shouldn't be people fighting against it, because it clearly works. I want this practice to be implemented across like, not even just the US but like, internationally, too. It's just this is so important. And I feel like everybody kind of needs to get on board. But these inclusive practices. So yeah.

Hello, I am Natalie Brown. And I am also a student at East Carolina University studying Special Education adapted curriculum. And as everyone else has been saying, Before coming to Maryland, I had never seen inclusion taking place in person, I have always heard the definition of inclusion, what it should look like. But honestly, before taking this class, I feel like now I have a deeper understanding of what inclusion is that I didn't really have an understanding of previously. And so after taking this course, and seeing everything in Maryland, I now know that the main roadblock to inclusion is mindset. And I feel like now I'm inspired to change this mindset because students with disabilities deserve to be in the general education classroom. And I, it's honestly my quote, I say this every time it makes me really passionate about inclusion, and I can't wait to implement it in the future school that I'll be teaching at. And I can't wait to get started. I feel like now, after seeing this and learning from Dr. Burnett and this experiment experience, I now know where I can start have an idea of how I can get it going in schools in my county. So I'm really excited. My name

is Cassie Hagler, and I'm a student at East Carolina University, also studying special education. I think the biggest thing for me was that in North Carolina, you know, we never seen anything like this. And so I thought inclusion was kids being in a typical classroom for lunch and recess and maybe going into reading class and sitting in the back. That is, that's what I thought before getting go to Maryland. And then when we got down there and seeing kids in the typical gen ed classrooms, and some of them even on grade level and doing the same materials with their peers, collaborating, it was something that you cannot unsee and going back home, it's something that you want to go into the classrooms and just get started on right away so that these kids aren't losing these learning opportunities.

Thank you all for your time, and your thoughts really appreciate it.

What I've come to realize in this series, and I hope you have too, is that the big questions that I've been trying to answer what is an inclusive school or where are the inclusive schools are really the wrong questions. The right question is, what am I doing to move inclusive education forward in my own context? And you know what? I can point to plenty of examples of imperfect inclusion everywhere and say, That's not inclusion. And that's not inclusion. Frankly, to say something is not inclusion is the easy part. That is not to say we can't offer an alternative, a better way and a vision forward. That is the hard part to not only shed light on the imperfections, but lead. I read this quote the other day, and I just can't let it go. It's from a writer slash blogger and Marie the know. And it's about zero waste. But here's the quote. We don't need a handful of people doing zero waste perfectly. We need millions of people doing it imperfectly. Well, and Mareeba No, I'm going to use your quote in our context. We don't need a handful of people doing inclusive education perfectly. We need millions of people doing inclusive education imperfectly will you start even if it's imperfect?

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call.

In stories is written, edited, mixed and mastered by Kane Vegas,

and it is a production of the narrow Coalition for inclusive education. For more information about inclusive efficient visit C i e, dot all different ways easy for listeners. Thanks for listening.

A huge shout out to our sponsors. We couldn't have done this project without you. Communication first roots of inclusion, the Council of parent attorneys and advocates the Thompson Policy Institute on Disability I secure privacy, the white family, the Teague family and to our supporters at the Washington Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction as well as our friends at Club 21 in Pasadena, California. We are grateful for your partnership. Special thanks to Damien sevi Harper and Natalia along with all of their families. Thanks to Greg crews in the truth for giving us permission to use their song, the light from the album yellow rose as our theme. If you loved this series, and want another season of inclusion stories, consider donating to MCIE I'll drop a link in the show notes. We would also appreciate a rating on Spotify and or a review on Apple podcasts or even better share it with a school administrator. Thanks to all my peeps at the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Dr. Carolyn Teague Lin Dr. Carol Couric, Mary Barnard Barb Gruber, Kathy Foley, Nolan Taylor, Brittany salmons Elizabeth Blum and Jeff Wyatt. Thank you to Dr. Shari McCreary for your time and wisdom. Thanks to Dr. Kristin brunette, and her students at East Carolina University in North Carolina. And to all my podcasting pals out there in the world. There are way too many of you to name but you know who you are. Finally, thanks to my wife Briana, and my kids. Jaden Isaiah, Imogen, and of course our pets Jupiter and Voldemort. Your support on this project has meant the world Thanks for your time and attention

Hi, Guys, my microphone be scared. Last walk fast otherwise you never know what might happen.

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