Here. All right, everyone. I'm very excited. We have my friend Daria de koning here today, a very talented jewelry designer, and this should be fun. Daria, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself.
Hi everybody. I'm Daria. What do you want? My backstory, my
life? Yeah, well, my first question, this is kind of a big question, but like, can you share how you got started and the journey that led you to where you are now? Absolutely,
it all started on a sunny September afternoon. No, it actually did go way back as a kid, I was always looking for rocks in the dirt, and was totally obsessed. And I was making jewelry as like early as nine years old, with like beads. And I made barrettes when I was like 11, and walked around and sold them to people. And actually, I had a store who loved my Brits. I mean, these were like foam barrettes with like, little wood things on them that I like cut out shapes. And it was like they were very colorful, of course. And I had a store that bought like a dozen of them. And as I don't, I can't remember how old I was, at 1112, and that was like a really big deal for me. And fast forward a few years, I took metal smithing, and I was totally hooked. And they were like, please leave. It was like, 930 at night, and I, like, just was, like, so obsessed. And this was right before I went to college. So my university used to have, I went to WashU and St Louis, and they used to actually have a jewelry program, and then they got rid of it. So I was a graphic design major, which I can't say was, like, really my strong suit, but it was extremely helpful in terms of just training me to, like, have a different kind of eye. And my senior thesis was designing a fictional jewelry company. So I was already making jewelry on the side. There was a place nearby in St Louis that I was working, and I just kept at it. So I as of my senior year, when I graduated, I was like, I know jewelry was what I wanted to do. And so I designed my logo and my letterhead and a website and packaging, and a lot of that has all evolved, of course, but the logo remains the same and my colors, so that was sort of my branding beginning, I guess. And so I started, sort of, you know, before social media existed, there were a lot of things that were not available to somebody who was budding in the jewelry industry. And I, I lost the train of thought what I was just about to say. It was something about not having, like, I was going to say now I have, like, Shopify and all that stuff. But right then I was like, all I could do was, like, talk to maybe somebody else who was in the industry and, like, go find them and ask them their opinion. And they somebody was like, oh, yeah, do this or do that. Nobody had any idea what they were doing. I don't think it was right in the time when there was like, a lot of, like beading, like small jewelry, if you think of like early Barneys, that's kind of where I was beginning. So I had decided I was asking people about gemology school, and since I'd always been interested in rocks, I was like, Well, how can you make jewelry and include rocks and not know anything about identifying them. So that was my path. So I went to Gia. I grew up in New York City, so I luckily had a place to live at home, which was very helpful. And after that, I started working for an Italian designer, which was good and bad. It was great, because it's sort of the same thing as what I'm doing now, but I got an opportunity to learn every facet of the industry. Because he was like, go buy stones, go pick up my castings. Go do this. How do you, you know, negotiate prices? And that was sort of my, you know, how do you learn what a blue topaz cost per carat kind of thing? And then from there, people asked me for engagement rings because I was in my 20s. And I was like, Sure. And this gentleman helped me figure out how to diamond broker, basically, and he gave me the intro to those people, and because it's a little hard to kind of get your people, so to speak, like to figure out which diamond dealers would give you merchandise, basically on memo. And so I had that intro from him, and then somebody, one person, said, Well, I'd love to have a trunk show for you. And I said, Well, that's really nice, but I have like, three pieces. And. Um, that sort of my backstory. In a nutshell.
I love that. I feel like your business kind of grew at the start based on like relationships and talking to people one on one, because that's how you did it then. And that is remains the like basis, or like the core of your business today. And like, what really like has built it up
most definitely, I have always played the long game. I don't know whether that's because nothing existed sort of in the beginning, or if I'm just really slow, which is also probably the way it is. You know, it takes me a while sort of to wrap my head around things and but when i So, when I did start, I was doing custom engagement rings. And I was like, This is great. Like, if as long as I get enough of these every month, like, I can sustain a living. And it didn't really, and I, you know, I was on my own, and I was sort of floundering, and I was like, do I go into the bridal market? And then the bridal market, of, like, alternative engagement ring started blowing up. And you know, as probably a lot of you listening today, like you have to wear so many hats, and like, the hat I want is to make jewelry and design jewelry, and I don't want to do all the rest of it, but you sort of have to figure that out too, because you, unless you have the backing to, you know, create a big company for me, I did it one piece at a time, and I would have somebody say, Can you make me a custom piece? And I would make that custom piece and make some money on it, and off we went. So
when I met you, I You were mostly doing bridal and then you're doing dainty, like, colorful cabochon stuff. It's wild to see how you've how far you've come from there, because now you're doing, like, the big one of a kinds in the statements. And like, I feel like that's where you always want it to go. But it took, I mean, how long have we known each other? Like, 10 years to really get there. We've known
each other longer than 10 years, which is frightening, but that is true. So there are a few pieces that I did early on that were like super creative. If you guys follow me on Instagram, you will see that I posted the Bird brooch fairly recently. Now I still have this Bird brooch, and it has been sitting in my safe for 20 years. Um, which is crazy, but I was like, That stone, which is one of those sort of unusual stones that I focus on, I saw it, and I was like, I'm obsessed. It looks like a bird to me. I'm going to build a four inch gold Bird brooch. Because what else would you do? So, yeah, thanks. Liz, so when I made this and I started making a few other pieces, they always got such great response. And it was, you know, it's hard to kind of follow your gut. So my gut is like, I want to make those kinds of things, but everybody else was like, You should go to couture, you should do whatever show, or you should have a small collection. So that's kind of what I started doing, is I started doing that small stuff, and I got rid of the one of a kind. So there was what I was really wanting to be doing. And I did a bunch of those shows. I can't even remember which ones I've done, but I did JCK, I did couture. The reality was I could not compete in that arena because I couldn't keep my costs down compared to a lot of people who were producing overseas now, as of this month, that might change. I don't know how that's, you know, the whole China tariffs and everything are making an issue for people. But the reality was, if somebody is doing setting for $2 a stone in Asia, and I have to charge $6 a stone, I can't compete in that market. And I really didn't feel that my designs were, I don't know, up to par, I guess, like they were fine, but I didn't think that they were really anything special, and where my heart really was lying was with these unusual gemstones. And so I decided to focus on that, but it took a long time to get there.
Yeah, it's kind of like you have to try certain things. And we did couture together, and I think that there was a really good reception to your work. Like, I wouldn't say it was the wrong fit for that show, but I think that when you are doing something more artistic and something different, it takes longer to get to this point where, like, the the retailers get it right?
Yeah, you have to be consistent with those shows, and that goes for everything. So when I was when I left this Italian designer, and I was doing the custom engagement rings, and then I started doing shows, and I can't remember how I got into them, but I started doing the Art and Antique circuit. So there's like the big Nashville Art and Antique Garden Show or whatever in Jacksonville and whatever. So I had a whole string of those, and I was traveling always to do a trunk show at somebody's house or to do these shows. And what I circle back, what I was saying earlier, being that it's the long game, meaning, not all of these shows were great, right? But these are direct to consumer shows. And I always was like, I don't know. I'm going to do everything I can, because you never know who you're going to meet. One of my best clients came from the Nashville show. And of course, you know, you set up a big booth, and you have all your cases and whatever. And this older couple came by, I don't know. I didn't think anything of them so sweet. And he's like, Oh, honey, what would you like? And, you know, he bought her a pair of, like, gold hoops and a gold bracelet, and off they went. And he is one of my best clients. Turns out he's, like, one of the HP printer guys, or the HP printer, I don't know, and he's so nice, and that's been one of my best clients. And a lot of people I've met at these shows, I have kept in touch with, or they've been consistently on my email list, and they it's the long term, so they might not buy anything that year, but they come back and they buy it 510, years later. So those shows were challenging. You know, I did definitely get burnt out by doing them so much, because it was a lot of work, but I made my client less so I know one of your questions was like, what is one of the most important things you can do? And at all these shows, I had a book, and I always ask for people's information, address and email, if they would give me both, and that has been the start of my list that I consistently have gone back to. And so I have a really big email list, and I have a really big mailing list, not always exactly the same, and that's one of been a great way to, like, get in touch and like, try and get clients consistently.
I think something else you do really well at your shows is you always make a note of which piece they liked, if you can, if they tried something on, if they were drawn to something, or they mentioned a color they like. I feel like you always have little notes of of those things do to follow up,
because there's no way you're going to remember. You think you will, but you never will. How
do you do that as, like, a one woman show, though, because, like, you've done shows alone, I know I've helped you with some in the past, but like, when you're doing a show like that alone, how do you capture all that information
quickly? Just do it. Yeah. I mean literally, like, if I'm sitting there with the book being like, sign my book. And, you know, chit chat, blobby blob and then I've been trying, then I'll just write down, like, I mean, I have shorthand for you guys all know your product probably really well. And I'll just say, oh, loves pink or Liz in Sun Valley, or liked the, you know, XYZ ring. Wants pink in small stones. I don't have any now, so and then when I do get pink small stones and make something, I have an opportunity to circle back to these people, and I can flip through my book. One of the other things that's become very lovely in later years is now, not only do you have Shopify, or, you know, an enterprise like that, to keep track of all your product, but you also have a CRM system. So I now have a CRM system, which is also very helpful when you have, like, 4000 names, and you can kind of circle back, I'm not great about using it. I could do some help there, but it definitely helps, you know, and then if somebody gets in contact with me, and I'm like, Oh, who's this person? I can go to my CRM system and be like, Oh, who's Liz Kantner? And I'll be like, oh, yeah, I met Liz back in LA in 2006 and she likes this. And then it's like, oh, look, you've come back 10 years later. Yeah, um,
how? What advice would you have for people who are afraid to reach out or feeling like they bother people by following up or circling back. That
is one of my number one issues. For sure, I am terrible at contacting people like, I know I need to do that is like,
if you're not terrible at it, though you're pretty good. The rule of
thumb is people. You should be emailing five people every week, minimum. I never do it, but I get in like, a moment, and then I'm like, oh, I need to email these people. And then I reach out and just say, Hey, how's it going? What was the question? Sorry, what
advice would you have for someone who's afraid to do that, afraid to outreach, afraid to circle back. Just do it. Yeah, it pays off. It's
It's funny, the number of people that write me back and say, Oh, thanks so much for getting in touch, like, not right now, or whatever, um, but they always appreciate, like, I would say, all my clients are friends. Yes, more or less, and some better than others, but they always appreciate a reach out. And I'm not like, buy my shit, you know. I'm like, you know, you have to make it a nice email and say, How's it going, or a nice call. I'm terrible at calls. Well, calls freak me out, but I know that is also the wave of the future, and because I keep you know when now everybody's texting, everybody like, and it's a faster movement, so I'm going to try and work on that. I just don't have a lot of people's cell phone numbers, because I started so long ago that mostly what I have is emails. But yeah, the only way is you just kind of suck it up and do it, and once you do one, like, do your five or your 10, and and give them suggestions. And I don't know, maybe it goes to spam. That's the other thing. I think most of the time, people are so busy, like, I miss emails all the time, and then then if you just revolt, Hey, did you see this? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but just keep at it. You never know. I also am very consistent on newsletters and mailers. So I do two emails a month. One is just a newsletter that's like, Hey, this is what's going on in my life. What's new, I don't know any press, etc. And then the other is more of like a marketing only email, and I think I don't like to barrage people, because I find it really irritating when I get, like, an email every day for my company, but two or three a month, and people love them, and it's personal, it's not vague, like I do try to open up and share, which is also hard. But you know, I think that consistency is also really key to, you know, reminding people out there that you exist. Because if you think about your own habits, like you definitely, you know, go off and think about other stuff you're not thinking about, Oh, I saw that dress in the window. And let me think about it until maybe that person texts you and say, Are you still thinking about that dress? And you're like, Oh, my God, I am. I should buy that. So it's the same thing with jewelry. Like people just have lives. You've got to move on and figure it out.
What CRM system do you use?
I use capsule, which is pretty good. I you know, somebody told me early on, oh, I should use Salesforce. And it just was like, these programs, like, literally, like, make my eyeballs go, like, sideways. It's not my it's not my thing. But CRM is pretty easy to use the capsule, excuse me. And the good thing is it integrates with other things. So if you're using Shopify, which I do, and I highly recommend, that was like, game changer of my life, um, you know, and MailChimp and so all these things integrate with each other and are seamless. So it's like, oh, if I write an email to you, I can BCC my capsule account. So dear Liz and I BCC and it whatever your email is. It tax that email on to your name. So I can go back in six months and be like, Oh, I already suggested this pair of earrings to Liz or, Oh, Liz hat owns this bracelet. They should own this. Do you know what I mean? So you can always make suggestions on what would go with what they already have. That's always a good way to
make a sale. Um, I want to circle back to this point that you mentioned that, like a lot of your clients, you know, and I think that there's because that's how Todd Reid started to, like, with people he knew, and expanded circles that way, and that's such a great place to start. But I think people now are, like, worried about that, or, like, unsure about tapping into the networks they already have. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Yeah. I mean, I would say that my secret weapon, and this obviously does not apply to everybody, is that I've been extremely social for my whole life, and people who are your friends want to support you. First of all, again, it's like, the emails, I'm not beating people over the head and saying that my shit, you know, like, I'm like, here it is. And like, if I've always been, like, if you like it, buy it. Like, I'm not gonna. And I, you know, Liz, I, you know, you know my backstory a little. How this we've, you know, people always said, Oh, Daria, you have to get more aggressive. And I was like, Okay, there's aggressive and annoying, and then there's like, there's pushy, and there's like, let's make suggestions. It's a it's a fine line. But I, you know, I think you can put it out there, and again, your friends will support you. It's just, I try to be nice to everybody again. It's like the HP guy, like you just never know who people are. And I'm super dorkly excited about all of my jewelry all the time. So I will wax poetic and bore you to death about telling you about the stones of my pieces and. And I don't know, people seem to like that, so the more you can talk to them about the pieces and be their friends, and like, Oh, where are you from? And you know, I had to learn a lot of how to sell points, because I can, like, have a conversation, but like, how do you bring it back to the piece they're looking at? How do you bring it back to trying to sell a piece? How are you asking questions? Like, if I'm writing notes about these people who have seen a ring they like it's because I'm asking them questions. So maybe I don't have anything at that moment, but I'm trying to learn as much as possible get them to talk right? If it's not a direct friend of yours and it's somebody else, oh, they like jewelry. Great. Okay, so ask anything you know, and anything that you can connect with, and you kind of get more insight to who they are, what they like, what colors they like, what pieces do they wear. You have to start kind of asking those questions. And then, you know, eventually, again, it's long game. It's they might not buy that moment, but maybe they'll buy in five years, two years. And maybe you don't have the piece that like the style that they like. You know, I I have to constantly evolve my style to always try to appeal to other people while still keeping true to like my artistic vision. So that's in a whole nother rabbit hole. But
yeah, I want to talk about your selling more, because you're so good at it, in the sense of, like, building the relationship, end of things. And it's cool to see you in action, because she's not lying. Like, I mean, I've seen her get really excited about her pieces, and in turn, the person she's talking to get really excited about her pieces. And that's, that's part of it, right? Is like, being, you know, the artist, the designer, and sharing the story of it, and being enthusiastic about that. If you're just like, oh yeah, this is the thing I made. And like, that's not as exciting as you being like, this is your blessing. Yeah, exactly. But back
to, like, my designing, like, when we were doing, like, JCK and stuff, and couture and whatever. And it was like, that product was fine, but I wasn't excited about it. Like, deep down, that wasn't it was hard for me to talk about it. I'm like, Oh yeah, here's a bracelet with some stones, you know, like, when you get when you love your product, if you believe in it, and you believe, essentially, you're believing in yourself, then other people want to carry that. They want to wear that. Um, that, you know, it's, yeah, I mean, you know, I worked with that marketing person that, can I name her, Dawn, that Liz, you know? And she definitely was great at sales, and she really drilled into me. There's a book,
yes, we read, I read that book. Grab your copy. Oh, okay, because
I was like, I can't remember the title is. And if I can pull it out of my storage, because everything's still in boxes, because I've just moved, I will send it to you, and you can send it on to everybody. But the other one that's really good is the Neiman Marcus book, or Stanley Marcus, he wrote minding the store, I think it is and that, I mean, Neiman Marcus was one of the most successful stores ever, and he like, really curated. So just, I always try to, like read or learn about other people's selling techniques. Obviously, not everything is working for everybody. I'm not a normal retail store. I'm not trying to reach goals of like, you know, I don't have employees trying to make sales, I guess, and reach quotas. So perhaps my selling is a little different. Would I like to have more sales and more consistently? Obviously, who wouldn't? But you know, how much jewelry can one person have? They have a lot. As my dad always told me, everybody has the money. You just have to make them spend it with you, not with somebody
else. That's a good mindset. It's like the getting your head out of other people's wallets. Like, just because you can't afford it doesn't mean that that person can't afford it.
Absolutely, I can't afford my own jewelry. People, I people, I would never spend what I, you know, and somebody else's jewelry, what I spent, sell mine for. But again, like that is you never know who's got the money and who wants to buy it.
You started mentioning, like designing in your voice, but thinking about what other people want. Do you want do you want to talk more about that, like the finding your voice? End of things? Yeah, that.
So I think it boiled down, well, let me see so many factors into this. When I was just starting, it was like I was trying to be everything for everybody. It's like, Oh, you want custom, let me do that. Oh, you want me to copy. So no problem. Oh, you I should do this. Great. I should be going to couture. Awesome. Let's make this collection. So my brain and my kind of collection, so to speak, was pretty much all over the place. And. Yeah, one of the things that's so nice about what you're doing Liz, is you have a really awesome community of people who can all talk to each other that did not exist when I was starting out and like, I don't know. I'm not. I didn't come from the jewelry industry. I didn't, you know, I was just making everything up as I went along. And so I ended up paying somebody who had a consultancy group to come in and like, look at my collection, and give me advice on where to go. Because at this point, I was like, I'm supposed to be doing couture every year. And was it a waste of money, maybe. But in the end, they were like, well, look at they were like, look at your collection. What is your most standout piece? And I was like, Oh, it was my bubble rings that all fit together. This is from a long time ago, and I don't make them anymore, although maybe I should. And she was like, well, that's your that's your best piece in here. Why don't you take that and go with it? And I was like, okay, so then from that ring stemmed the collection that I went to couture with, and then I had done a few pieces with, like my unusual rocks and Stan stones. And I was like, but that's really, this is what I love. I love doing that. And I don't know how was it dawn, maybe, who was like, why don't you just do that? Then probably sounds like something she said, and sometimes it just takes an outside person to come in and look at your stuff and say, Do it? Go for it like you again. You can't sell what you don't like or what you don't love, and it doesn't matter how hard you try it, people feel that like negative Juju. Sorry, but they do. So, yeah, so I, once I started making those, once I started using the stones that I liked, it just was, it was like a rocket ship. It was like creativity. It was sort of endless, and I could just keep evolving from there as, like, I evolved design wise, you know, like you're once you're on something, then you think about new things, and you're like, Ooh, what else can I do? Or I don't know, does that answer your question? Yeah,
is along the way, is there anything you definitely would have done differently?
It's such a hard question to answer. Part of me wishes that I had gone to work for somebody else, like a bigger brand, so that I could figure out what I was doing, as opposed to just piecemealing it together, kind of thing. But on the other hand, like this was my own path, and I was doing what I thought was right at the time, and I don't think it's turned out too badly. I, you know, I, I'm one of those people who's like, let's just do it. Let's try it. Oh, you've got a show. Cool. Is it gonna be the right thing? I don't know, but I like, work myself to death, traveling and doing these shows and pop ups and just seeing what stuck. So
what would you say the most challenging part of starting the business has been and how did you overcome it? Oh, my
God, the whole thing is also hard. It's also hard. I mean, you look at people you look at, like Brent Neal, you look at you take any of those people like Irene Neuwirth even, and they all of a sudden, it's like they're everywhere, and they just seem to have their shit together. And you're like, how, how do they do that? How do they come out of nowhere, so to speak, and then all of a sudden, or look so successful like that is not me. I wish it could be. But, you know, I have learned over the years that if I am not good at something, I have got to hire somebody. Because I know that if I'm not good at it, I'm never going to do it, and I will keep putting that off. So was I a graphic design major in college. Yes, do I love doing it? No, have I hired somebody who is way better than I am at it? Yes, is it such a relief every time? Absolutely. So I think hiring out or hiring the right people to help you is, I mean, key to everything. Um, I, you guys know, as I mentioned earlier, I did my logo and stuff in college, but then, of course, that's always evolving. Like, right now, I'm actually working on a complete rebrand of my colors and everything. Um, there's just so many components to running a business, and there's sales, there's making it, there's marketing, there's Instagram. That's a whole nother rabbit hole. There's so many factors that go in, it's hard to be a jack of all trades. And so I think if you can hire other people to. Help you, even on like a consultancy basis, I can't afford to have people. I can't have five people on my roster all year round, you know, so, but having just other brains working with you is huge.
Are there any key moments or milestones that helped your brain grow? I don't know.
I don't know if there was anything specific. Again, it's like just consistency. So when I hired Don who does my sort of long term overall brand strategy, marketing? I think that was a key moment in my business, because my brain was going in 55,000 other directions, and I'm like, and she was like, Okay, let's fund tunnel vision. Let's focus a little bit. Let's really, you know, try and get your voice to be consistent. So I think having that person come in and help me with my brand and just really consistency, and making my voice what trying to get that across to people, that was probably one of the key moments, I mean, outwardly for me. I mean, my landscape collection was in a museum last June, so that was pretty huge. But I don't know if that like, again, I don't get a ton of feedback from that, like, I went for the opening and the closing, and I got a sale in January from that. But I don't know if like, other than my own ego, was really, like, a huge movement in my brand, coming forward.
I mean, I think when you went from the shift of creating production pieces to primarily focusing on one of a kinds, I'd say that was a pretty monumental
moment in yoga. Is actually probably true, yeah,
just having been there with you, or, like, have seen it, like, closer up, I that felt like a shit, a big shift. Yeah,
that was, you know, I so, I okay. So if you section off my business, right, it was engaging. Then it was my, like, collection stuff, and now it's, like, my one of a kind stuff. So you could, you could put me into three different categories of how the business has evolved. I guess I sort of don't even see myself really starting until I made that turn into what I do now. Because everything before that was like, just trying to make it work, Dilly dying. I don't know I like now I feel like, I'm like, Okay, I know what I'm doing. This is what I'm taking off with. And before that, I was like, Oh, what am I? Who am I?
And it kind of takes like doing like couture. I feel like couture was, like, kind of a big moment for your business, too, like, and I think we you learned a lot from that. And so it's like sometimes like doing the show that maybe wasn't the right fit in the long term actually does make great change, or is impactful in a big way, in a good way. Yeah,
for sure. I mean, I had to figure out who I wanted to be right. And I knew, you know, what is success to you? I It's different to every person. But I did not want to be David yearman. Like I was not interested in pumping out multiple collections a year, and nor did I necessarily have the backing for that. And I had if I was like, Okay, I'm not going to be David yearman. Who am I? Am I going to be Polly whales? Okay, you know now I'm I figured out who I wanted to be in, and couture doesn't really fit into that at this point, especially because it's all one of a kind. It's just not production pieces. It's like not that doesn't work for me, but that could work for a lot of other people. Just depends, again, what your vision for your world is.
How long did it take you to get to the point where you felt like you were on the right path in your business
for really a long time, like a long time,
like two decades, I don't know, a long time, right? I
mean, I started full time in 2005 um, or 2006 and at least a decade. When did I do co tour with you? I can't remember. Is this terrible?
26 was it? 2016 2017 2017 Yeah,
yeah. I you know. And also, I had to adjust my life. I was going like balls to the wall for so long. Um, yourself out for sure, really did, and I don't, you know, I will share I ended up with breast cancer, and so that was sort of a doozy, and that just sort of also makes you re shift what your vision is. Now, not recommending everybody go out and get cancer, but you i. Just, I really have to learn to I'm terrible at taking care of myself, and I need to take the breaks. I also got a dog, and my dog, at like, five o'clock is like, hi, like, we gotta go out and walk. I'm like, oh, you know, usually I would work until midnight, so I'm child free. So now it's like, okay, what do you what are your priorities? And how do you not get burnout? Well, you take walks and you energize yourself with museums, and you're allowed to take the time for that. Like, I had to learn that it's okay to take the time, really is, yeah.
And I remember a while ago we talked about, like, you just not traveling as much because you were traveling so much too. And like, figuring out, like, which shows did make sense to do or what which really did make sense, versus, like, doing all the things and saying yes to everything. Oh
my god, I said yes to everything, and then I had anxiety when I wasn't doing it. I was like, I'm gonna take a break. I'm like, No, don't take the break. You'll die. Like nobody will buy anything. You'll suffer. You know, it's my own brain making me go like a crazy person, and then it's like, no you can. I just tried to really slow my role. So now, as you guys might or might not know, I've moved to Santa Fe and I'm opening a little gallery here. So my game plan is to have it be successful enough where, like, people can come in or not, because I've already built my client base, so I can rely on sales from my existing hustling from the last 20 years, and now I can maybe have people walk in, and if not, it's okay, and then I'm not gonna be on the road as much, so that's hopefully what I'm saying as I leave next week for a show, but that's okay.
Emily and Kari watching are both in Santa Fe too. Hi, where are you trying? What show are you doing next? I'm
going to Raleigh. I'm at a store called vermillion there. You know, retail is also really hard people. It is not all it's chalked up to be. I don't know how much you talk about this in your interviews. I've had some bad experiences with retailers. Um, so that was its own journey, and that was, I don't maybe I'm a control freak. That's fine. It's very hard when you lose control over your product. And again, it's like, you need somebody full time to, like, constantly be on these stores. What have you sold? Are you selling? Why not? Who's Who's buying what you know, and I just don't have the bandwidth to do that.
Yeah, wholesale is not the dream. Direct to consumer is not the dream. You kind of need a blend well,
and I can't be the bank for everybody either. When every store is asking for $40,000 a product on memo, I'm like, sure says nobody like, unless, of course, you have that backing, which is very possible. I have definitely gone down that rabbit hole of you know, should I get bank loans or investors or I would say one of the best things I've ever done was apply for a line of credit with my bank. And I highly recommend, if you guys can get that, that is like a lifesaver. Obviously, you get the you get the line of credit, where you only pay if you're if you've taken some out. So I have like, $100,000 line of credit. And let's say I can, I can just move money in and out as I need it. So sometimes I pay it all off, and sometimes I'm like, oh shit, I've just gone to Tucson and spent $30,000 like and I can move money over to cover myself until I make more sales, but I'm only paying on that $30,000 the percentage, and it's a lot less than a credit card. I think it's like right now, I don't know, 6% or something, versus what's your credit card, 25 so as a business that was definitely actually a game changer, because I was always out of money, and I'm an addict for stone, so I buy a lot, so you needed to have that way to cover you. And you know, couture, okay, let's, I'm sorry to keep bringing up couture. It's very expensive, but any of these shows, let's say you're like, oh, gosh, I got invited to do Vogue in New York, I don't know, and it's going to cost me $15,000 I don't have that money right now. Well, if you can borrow that from your line of credit and have that opportunity to get in front of those people potentially make sales, long term clients, that's a huge that's huge.
Yeah, shows are expensive. All shows can direct, consumer shows, trade shows, everything's just expensive now.
And I'm not just saying for borrowing for shows. I'm like, but you can borrow to send out a postcard. Oh, I have a huge mailing list, and I want to do a five by seven fold over. Like, that's going to cost me $3,000 I don't have that. Well, borrow it, maybe sending something out to your. Clients will result in a sale, right? So that old adage, got to spend money to make money, is often quite true.
Let's talk about telling your story. What advice do you have for designers on sharing their story and their values? I think you do a really nice job like pulling in like what inspires you in the way that you share it.
Well, I've been told that I don't share enough and I need to share more. I it's very hard. I think I'm a fairly private person, and I want to share what I'm excited about, but not a lot of love. I'm not a fluffy person. I think if you follow your voice, it's the same thing as building your collection. Like if you are authentic to the product that you're creating, and you're authentic to yourself, like, I can't make up stuff and some stuff I don't want to share. But I think authenticity just comes across in whatever you're posting or sharing with people. I don't know how you I tell you to be authentic. I think you just have to figure that out. That's not really good advice, but,
but just stay true to your voice, because even though, like even though you have somebody who helps you with your emails, they still sound very much like you.
They're not doing them without me. And same with Instagram, I have somebody covering my Instagram, even though Liz always told me I could do it myself. That is true. But the reality is, I know I won't, and I need somebody to give me that structure. So what we do, and actually, which might be helpful for all of you who, if you can't afford somebody, is you do your grid, and you like, you know, we work on the photos and what we're trying to get across that month. And then I write all the captions like they'll have a prompt sometimes, so I'm writing them. And then sometimes they can rewrite them if they want, but at least it's always in my voice. It's always in my voice. So even if I'm not the one going on and pushing the buttons, it's still me who's doing everything. I just have other brains, like I said before, helping me keep on track. Because I lose track, I can't I can't do it all.
Yeah, that's helpful. That's how I set it up too. It's just so it could be collaborative if I'm working with someone, because it needs to be. It can't just be somebody writing your voice. And I think that we have to be careful with that with chat GPT too, is to make sure that it's still really coming through as I sound like a robot, yeah, not sounding like everyone else and not sounding like a robot. My
chat GPT recently, sounds like a valley girl and like, and that's a man talking. And I'm like, oh my god, where's AI going? But I know API yet. And I'd be curious actually, to hear from you guys, who is my husband is really into AI. And so it is quite amazing of what it can help you write. But again, don't trust it completely, because it doesn't always get everything right. And you're your own voice, and nobody will ever be able to replicate that. As I've also been told by Dawn, she was like that. She was like, I don't understand, like your voice or what you're saying. And I'm like, I don't know. I guess I'm too New York, can I say, you have a very distinct
voice, and I love that,
yeah, just be true to yourself. I nobody can write it for you. You kind of gotta do it. I would also say for myself, like I get in modes where I write. So Dawn is a writing genius, and she's like, just write these things. And I'm like, Yeah, but that's that takes that's not my brain. I'm not sitting here writing all day long. I want I'm playing with stones. So if I actually am in a writing mode, which I can put myself in that mode, but then, like, I'm not going to write one caption at a time. So put yourself in that mode and spend the day and do all your captions, do all your newsletters, and then you can train yourself to get that you there's systems you use, I know Liz, you use them that will feed it out for you, right? You can schedule stuff. You don't have to be doing it for a month. And then you give yourself a break for a month to focus on other
stuff, yeah, like batching, doing something like in batches, versus like, one thing here and then one thing over there. It makes everything faster. You make yourself crazy. Otherwise, yeah, definitely. Lori says My husband is getting a doctorate in AI and believes life is going to be very different soon. Oh, curious. Lori, tell me I have a few more questions. But if you have questions for Daria, feel free to throw them in the chat here. Oh, here's a big one. Can we talk about pricing and feeling confident about
it? Yes, charge you all are worth it that, I mean, that is certainly the most difficult part of. This because when I was just starting out, I felt very guilty. I was like, Oh, that's too much. I shouldn't charge that, you know. But the reality is, again, like, you don't know what money people have, so the worst they can say is no, and then you could be like, well, let me work with you on the price. When I started and I was trying to figure this out, and I was like, how am I, what's your What am I supposed to charge, you know, $5 over my $10 cost? No, I asked a friend of mine who had worked at Kara Ross, and she was like, oh, there's a formula. And I'm like, oh, there is. So now I just have an Excel spreadsheet and I put everything in my formula. So this is also really helpful. I don't know how you guys keep track of everything, but I have now, oh, it's over there. I could get it if you want. But so I have a book where I weigh out all my stones and what they cost, and then I have Excel spreadsheets, and that lists out all my costs. So it's like, okay, this ring, this Opal, cost $1,200 this aquamarine costs $700 the Gold Cost, you know, $800 your labor, whether it's mine, or if I'm tracking it out to somebody that costs XYZ, here's what the diamonds cost. Here's like, everything is itemized, and then you're saying, Okay, so my total cost to make this piece is $1,000 then your wholesale is two or 2.5 I do 2.5 because I am worth it. And then your retail price is either Keystone, or some people do more than that. So again, that depends on whether you're giving discounts to people. Discounts is tricky. Dawn, who worked with me, loves to give a discount because she was like everybody expects and wants a discount. Me as an artist, I find it really offensive, and I don't like giving discounts. So occasionally I'll give like, 10% but I will very, very rarely give more than that, and that discount is usually baked into the price. So if you're planning on giving 10% you should add an extra 10% to your your sales price. Yeah,
definitely. And Keystone is two times right from from Wholesale.
That's if you're doing wholesale, that's also a different cut of a fish, right? So don't forget, if you're selling to a retailer and you're getting if my thing is $10 and I'm it's selling for 20 and I'm only making 10. Like, well, that's kind of a crappy deal for me. Like, I put in a lot of work for that. So there some retailers are like, we only sell a keystone. I've had retailers who are like, we sell it 10% less than Keystone. And I have some that say, we sell it 2.5 or 2.25 markup. I mean, everybody is kind of does their own thing. What I try to do is, is I just have my my by definite price of what I will get. And I but I have, because I sell them on private clients, I have my list, and I was like, This is what the price is. And if I'm sending it to a retailer, this is what the price is. And then you just give me back, whether that's 50% or 2.5% or whatever, you know, because I want everything to be the same price. If it's on my website, I don't want it to be a different price somewhere else.
Yeah. That makes sense. Um, you know, you have a question,
yeah, I just want to ask you, what do you tell someone when they say, Oh, this is a really nice piece, but it's so expensive. Your jewelry is so expensive. Because I get that a lot, and it annoys the shit out of me, and I am pricing so much cheaper than I should, because I feel like I just started, and I need to build the client base. Like, I made, like, and made 22k chains for like, 7000 or 8000 which is really cheap, and then I still get, Oh, my God, this is so expensive. You're so expensive. We really love love love it. But your, your stuff is so expensive, like, not in a nice way, not like, in a way that, oh, I wish I can afford it someday. It's, you know, so I just got that I'm like, so mad about, yeah,
no, I get that a lot too, don't get me wrong. And it's nice to have admirers. And maybe that's where people stay. Maybe they stay as admirers. I it's very tough right now with the gold price, that makes me cry like every day, but that's the reality of things. And if you're working with stones, everything's gone up, and you can your answer can be like, yeah, it's expensive, but it's, you know, have have your laundry list of why. I mean, I don't think everybody should have to justify things, but people want that, and maybe they're just not at that level of being able to purchase right? And then they feel awkward because they want to buy it, but like they can't afford it. So it's maybe not projecting on you as much as it is explaining, kind of like their inner feelings on this, right? Like they're embarrassed that they can't afford it, but they want it so you can. Say, well, the gold price, I mean, people, when I started metal smithing, gold was $250 an ounce. And I was like, Oh, it's so expensive. God, if I'd only known it was going to go to 3000 I would be a genius, slash retire to Mexico. But I didn't. And so I have to say, well, the price of gold is really expensive. I mean, I did it an earring, and it's gone up like $1,500 when I remake it. That's a really big difference. When you're trying to sell something at $3,000 and all of a sudden it's $5,000 you've just cut out a lot of your market already, right? But that's not your fault. So you have to say, well, markets are more expensive. Gold is more expensive. I deal in unusual stones. Guess what? A lot of these stones I can explain are from mines that have closed. You can't get the material anymore. The miners aren't mining. I mean, one of the craziest things in Tucson is, you know, every year there's sort of something new. And I talked to some of my Brazilian dealers, and they're like, we can't get the material anymore. Nobody wants to be the mine. The Miner. Nobody wants to be the cutter, nobody wants to write. So all of their product is getting more expensive, all my gemstones, so, like, everything is going up. It's like eggs. They're $12 a dozen, right? Like, everything is more expensive, and that's not your fault. Um, sometimes, depending on the person, I will try to explain this, and sometimes it's just not worth my energy, just as like, well, maybe this is not for you. And, like, maybe one day you can come back. Thank you so much. I mean, I heard a story once of this was not because somebody couldn't afford it, it was because somebody was an asshole and they were being mean. And then the designer was like, You know what? You can't buy my product. It's yours. You can do it if you don't like somebody because they're mean or rude or treating you like crap, like you don't have to sell it to them. Don't be desperate enough just to sell somebody else. Come along,
this is very motivational, like, know your worth. But something I've seen you do really well before Daria is like, really explain the value of the stones, because most people don't understand why things are so special. So I think that that's a really good answer to that. Oh, this is so expensive. Oh, well, this is like, the rarest type of rubellite, or whatever it
is. I had somebody come up to me and whatever she's sort of keeping up with Joan, just kind of gal, and she was like, oh, let's come over and see your jewelry. And I was like, showing it, and there's a couple other girls there, and she goes, Oh, I just, I really just don't understand this jewelry. Like, I only buy, like, diamond sapphires and rubies, like that makes sense, but this stuff I don't know doesn't make sense. And I was like, then you're not my customer because you don't get it, and you don't get it, and you don't want to be different, and you're just like everybody else. And like, she was a lost cause. Guess who emailed me, like, two months ago?
Did she What did she buy? She's
like, Oh, I saw this pizza on your newsletter. I really,
well, rare gemstones, I think, are getting more popular now. So I could see that happening. In terms of of that shift.
He's also an area where I have a lot of clients, by the way, and there's a little bit of FOMO and like, they're like, oh, so and so, got something and I don't have something, if you guys can make that happen.
That's the funny thing that I feel like I've learned from traveling with you, of like, these areas of the the US that I didn't know about, where it's very clicky. And, like, if one person has that thing, they all have that thing. And there were a couple of jewelry designers where everyone had the same, like, independent jewelry designer stuff. And like, they they were all shopping from the same places, yeah.
But here's the good news. Is, because all my work is one of a kind, not if I meet you, you're not, I'm not gonna meet myself coming Do you? I mean, like, I can sell to 50 people in the same place, but they're never gonna but then they look at it, and they go, Oh, my God, do you got that? I didn't even see that. How'd you get that? When did you get that? You know? And then they're like, Well, I gotta go buy a new piece. That's, that's where I am right now, and it's really nice.
And you worked so hard to get there, um, any final thoughts for the group, for designers who are either starting out or just kind of like growing in their journey figuring out what to do next? What would your your advice be?
I would say, just follow your gut. If you have a good feeling about something. Try it like, what if you got to lose nothing? Just, just do it. Nike, you know, it's just, I listen, as I mentioned before, not everything I've done has been great, for sure, and there are some real low moments in this business. But on the flip side of that, the highs are so rewarding, and the people I've met are wonderful, and my supporters are, like, really true supporters. I mean, I can't, I can't explain how, like, you'll be successful. You just have to stick to your guns. That's great. Thanks for being. Here. Daria, yeah. Anything else? Anybody who has more questions?
Anyone have anything else?
Lauren, sounds like Raleigh that is everywhere. When I did that show, people will come up and they'd be like, Liz, you should really buy this pair of earrings, because it goes with that necklace that your husband gave for you for your like, 10th anniversary, or, like, whatever, and they would like, name list out. Everybody's like, jewelry items. I'm like, That's messed up. Like, how do you remember what other people's jewelry is that they do?
That's really funny. Twila says, I'm, I'm just inspired. It's such a journey. I think that I want to highlight that what you said about it taking you 10 years to get to the point where you felt like you were in a position where you felt like, really good about your business. It takes a long time.
It took a really long time. And I feel like, very happy about what I'm creating, and I know that I'm not supposed to be doing anything else. So let's see. I got cancer in 2018 and that was sort of, and then it took me, like, a really long time sort of get my brain back in the game from that. And then, of course, I've been moving that's a whole nother drama. But, you know, life will definitely throw you curveballs and you just embrace them. And it will take time, but you'll get there. It's not a rush, it's not a race. I my whole world is a long game. Would I love to be making billions of dollars? Absolutely, if I could get to a million, that would
be great. Laura's wondering. She wants to hear more about your future gallery.
Ah, well, come for a visit. I'm opening up a little space. It's going to be my workshop, Atelier, everything it's at the top of Canyon Road in Santa Fe, which is like the art gallery road here that's pretty well known, and it's just a little space. And I don't you know, I want I previously had place. So why? In New York, I had a place in Tribeca that wasn't open to people in LA, I lived, like too far away from people who had money basically both times. So I just figured, why not? And to have a little if I can. I mean, to be totally honest, every time I did a show, I was like, if I have to stand in a gallery for an entire day, I will kill myself. But if I can have my workshop there my computer and be able to play I think that will be fine. So that's gonna be the game plan. And I also have a home studio, so I'm not bringing everything there. The jewelry will be there, and then I'll work on a specific project. But I do have an arsenal of stones that I like to just squirrel brain around with. And sometimes things take multiple years to come together, so that stuff will stay at home.
I love your work bench. How you just have stones laid out and you just kind of, like, play with them, like you truly just play to, like, find the right fit. Well,
sometimes it takes a long time too. I mean, I've bought stuff 20 years ago that I'm still sitting on, and I have, you know, you just never know when you're going to find something. So I buy it when I like it, because I know I won't see it again. And then I'll, I'll pull from other things, and I'll be like, sometimes something will sit on my bench for two years, literally. And then I'll be like, it's just not right. And then all of a sudden, I'll buy something like, oh, that's what it is, you know? So you gotta, you gotta, kind of work with it.
You must wondering, did you ever have a moment where you would feel like I have to do something else? This isn't working.
Yeah, that was my whole switch after couture. Yeah, yeah. It's really hard to find your voice. There is so much jewelry out there, and again, I just what, what is your gut when you're making something? I don't think there's any reason why you can't pivot if something's not working for you. Just keep exploring. If you're like an artist, like you don't you'll eventually find your own voice. And yeah, you're going to look at everybody else too, and don't compare yourself to people, because they're probably suffering too.
Yeah, and everybody's
journey is totally different.
All right, thanks everyone. Thanks. Daria,
thanks guys. Well, I appreciate you tuning in, and I'm always open to new questions. So yeah,
DM her. Email her. Sorry is great. Visit her if you're in Santa. Fe