Ep 15: What are You Going to Do with That? Getting The Message Out. Why podcasts are important for formal and informal learning and why we do what we do.

11:58AM Jun 25, 2021

Speakers:

Shelli Ann Garland

Danni Reches

Ido Rosenzweig

Keywords:

podcast

danni

guests

people

episode

phd

learning

question

struggles

ido

research

hear

bit

centre

podcasters

early career researchers

story

talk

host

twitter

Hello, and welcome to a dash of salt. I'm Dr. Shelli Ann and I'm so glad you're here. Whether you stumbled upon this podcast by accident, or you're here because the subject drew you in welcome. Salt is an acronym for society and learning today. This podcast was created as an outlet for inviting fresh discussions on sociology and learning theories that impact your world. Each episode includes a wide range of themes that focus on society in everyday learning, whether formal or informal. So let's get stuck in Shall we?

Welcome to a dash of salt. Today I'm joined by Danni Reches and Ido Rosenzweig. Danni is a PhD fellow based at the Haifa Centre for German and European Studies at the University of Haifa. Her PhD dissertation focuses on policy and media discourses of persons with a migration background from the MENA region to the EU. Danni also works on refugee and international law in the EU during crises, including the so called refugee crisis and the corona pandemic. Through work and training experiences. During her studies. She's focused on non formal educational approaches and activities for youth to deal with conflict, anti racism and opportunities of inclusion.

In October 2021, she'll start an academic year at the Leipzig University in Germany to work on her joint PhD project with her supervisor there. Danni hosts the podcast What are you going to do with that, which is embedded with the Minerva Centre for the rule of law under extreme conditions at the University of Haifa. In the podcast, she talks with early career researchers about their academic journey and raises awareness for mental health in academia.

Ido Rosenzweig serves as the director of research in terrorism and belligerency at the Minerva centre. At the same time, he also serves as the executive director of the Centre for the study of multiculturalism and diversity at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. His topic of research is about the right to life of combatants under international humanitarian law and human rights. Ido is an international lawyer and the head of the local Israeli nonprofit called ALMA Association for the promoting international humanitarian law. Ido is about to complete his PhD in international law at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He is the producer and the editor of what are you going to do with that podcast, and he's married and has three kids.

So the topic of our conversation today will focus on why podcasts are important for formal and informal learning, and why we do what we do. So you're very welcome, Danni, and Ido.

Hi. Glad to be here.

So are you guys feeling a little bit like, we've kind of flipped the podcast, the host and the producer become the guests have you had this experience before?

For me, it's not the first time I actually had a recording with another podcaster just last week. And I've also had it about exactly a year ago, because we have this special episode in our season. That is a collab episode. So I am the guest on someone else's podcast. And that host is a guest on one of our episodes. So I've just done that this week. And it was a lot of fun. And I felt much more comfortable doing it this time than I did a year ago. So that was also really fun. But Ido, you have not done that yet, right.

I don't think I've ever done being a podcast guest before. So that would be my first I've done a lot of media interviews. But podcasting is some something different. I've always in our podcast, stayed behind the keyboard sort of thing and just did the producing and the editing. I think, yeah, that's my first guest podcasting,

which I think is so nice that Danni could just go in and host then she could just hand it over to you and say, okay, work your magic on it. One of the first questions that really that I have for you guys is what inspired you to launch you know, your podcast. What are you going to do with that? How did you guys establish the podcast and how did it come about?

Well, the story of the podcast goes a little back to our ah, we both work at the we are both affiliated with Minerva Centre for the rule of law under extreme conditions at the University of Haifa, where we have a lot of early career researchers projects, we do a lot of workshops in forum. And we have our own close group of early career researchers, PhD, PhD candidate MA students, sometimes postdoc, we do it every year. So every every year, we have a different group of early career researchers. And every year, we have these work in progress sessions, where each member of the group will present his or her research and receive comments and feedback from their peers. And that project has been going a lot for five or six years now. And it's going very, very well. And as the person in charge of that project, I was trying to think of new ways to bring in early career researchers to the table, but also to talk about their their stories. And I like podcasts. And I've been listening to different types of podcasts even before we established ours. And I started to think about a podcast that talks about early career researchers. And I pitched the idea to the little forum group that we had. And I asked what they think about it, and who would be willing to pay the host of that of that show. Because on that project, I didn't want to be the front person, I want someone else somewhat different early career researcher to be the front person and Danny volunteered herself to be the host of the show. And we came up with the idea of doing a podcast that talks about how we got to that point. And what are we doing now that we are in that point. So the idea of the behind that podcast is that every early career researchers have their own success stories, they have their own challenges, and they have their own struggles, by a lot of them are similar, a lot of them are relatable. And these are the stories that we want to talk about. We want to convey the story of that specific person. But we want to make sure that it's something that other people can relate to. So it's kind of combination of how you got here. What are your struggles? What is your academic story? What is your personal story? And alongside that, what are you working on right now. So these are the main legs that the conference is standing on?

Well, yeah, I was laughing while I heard Ido say that I was the one who volunteered to be the host, I have no idea what I was getting into. But I also wanted to be a part of the group and meet other peers, other students, because I didn't have any other groups that I was a part of, or other students that I would then meet on a weekly basis or something like that. So I was really looking for something like that. And I think it really did offer me that with the podcast, and it's been a lot of fun. So I'm glad that I did at the time.

It's a great, you know, way to disseminate creatively, you know, different than what we would normally see for dissemination of people's research, you know, through conferences and papers and things like that, where they can come on and have those conversations and, you know, it's, it's, it's wonderful, I'm actually seeing it, I don't know if you guys are seeing this or not, but I'm actually seeing on people CVs now, where they when they do sort of interviews and podcasts and things like that, where they come on to talk about their research, they're adding it to their CV, you know, because it is a skill, it's a skill to be able to go, you know, if we can put conferences and you know, research papers on our CVs, why not put, you know, a podcast interview. So I think there's something to really be said about the importance of it there too. And how long did you guys say that this podcast? Have you been podcasting? When did you start?

We started, I think our first episode launched around March last year 2020. But we started recording, as Ido said already a little bit before the pandemic hits. And before we have lock downs, we just weren't ready to edit them and publish them yet. So we needed some time with those first recordings to get started. So we started rolling really in March 2020, when there was a lockdown in most places of the world. And that's when we went on to zoom like everyone else in the world. And it worked out for the best.

Yeah, really opens it up doesn't it opens up the world for you.

Definitely

And how do you guys choose your guests for the podcast or do they choose you? How does that work?

That's the producing part of the, of the work. We have some agendas that we are trying to work through. One we are, we have our own researchers in the Minerva centre or in a University of Haifa, that we want to help promote and give them a floor. At the end of season one. We sat down and looked at the guests we had during the season. I said, Okay, so we had a lot of female guests. And we loved it. That was a positive aspect that we had the gender aspect of it. But we said, well, geographically, we didn't have much enough diversity. And we didn't have enough diversity on other topics on STEM, researchers and other other fields of research. So we start to paying attention that in towards season two, when we looked for guests, we started paying attention will be a little bit more to that. Now, some of the guests actually approached us asking to be a guest on our show. And sometimes we ran into someone interesting on Twitter, we find someone interesting on a different platform. The third type of guests that we had was an outcome of the we did a conference last year, at the end of season one, we did an early career researchers conference, and some of the guests of season two, were actually speakers of that conference. So we're looking all over. But really, really, really trying to make sure that we have several aspects of diversity for the show. I'm not sure anyone would notice that those elements of diversity that we look for, but they were important for us, and therefore they were selected.

Yeah. And it's interesting that you talked about sort of promoting on Twitter. And I think Twitter is, is often a really great place, you know, to see, you know, who might be interested in coming on and being a guest. But I know what you're saying, Ido, about thinking on the backside. Okay, at what's their platform, and what's my platform and do the two tie together? And if it works fantastic, right? Where if some of your, your recent past guests hailed from,

we've had guests from universities in South Africa, but we've also had guests from Nigeria, who have spent positive parts of their research time also in Germany, for example. So that's pretty cool. So we have a guest from different continents. We also have people from Australia, we have people from Canada, who are now based in Korea, we have people in India, and of course, all kinds of European countries, also from here, locals in Israel. But some of them were from different kinds of minorities, we have people from Christian minorities, Jews, minorities. So really, everything and then background wise, right, not only places or location in the world, a lot of different different research. So in the beginning, we had a lot of people working in law, which is also Ido's field, and a lot of lawyers come to the Minerva centre. But we also have people from architecture from stem. We have people working in social work, education, all kinds of things really. So it's been, it's been good.

So the next question that I have for you is, um, if this one's actually specifically for Danni, um, I know that you know that you have an interest in mental health awareness, and that, that you will often bring that up in some of your podcast conversations. And I guess that's my question is, how do you squeeze that into the conversation when you're talking with early career researchers? You know, how do I make sure that that platform is heard?

It's not usually the first question, right? Like, how are you doing today? And how did you get there? No, it's usually not like that. But our podcast is pretty structured. It often starts with an introduction in which I say all the great things really that that person has done usually based on their resume that they've sent me before. And I often hear from guests just to like finish reading my little introduction, that they're very impressed with themselves for hearing someone say all the great things so we're already like a little bit in a good place. And then I start pouring my drink. I usually have an Amaretto, which is my standard signature drink on the show and then the other guests depending on the time of day it is with them because Australia would obviously be a different time. They have either a drink or something non alcoholic, which is also fine. So we already have this, you know, really nice setting. And then I start with some icebreaker questions, really short questions that have not necessarily anything to do with their research. But to get to know them a little bit. So I asked them about their morning, I asked them what superpowers they would have liked to have had their favourite Netflix show stuff like that. And then I start talking about how they got where they are today. So often they're doing a PhD, they just finished it, or they're postdocs, or they're really, in their early career in academia. So we start with the beginning. And then obviously, at some point struggles come up, this is something that I definitely focus on I ask them about their successes. But I also ask them about what the difficulties that they face during their studies, that can have some that could have something to do with their personal life as well, right? Like we've had people who battled cancer during trying to finish up their PhD, or having children or all kinds of other things. It doesn't always have to be something bad, but it can still be a bit of a struggle, right? And then through that, I don't necessarily ask, so how is your depression going, but I tried to listen to them and have them really talk about it so that others can listen to the how they went through these struggles. And then the listeners, the audience of these, that's what I'm trying to do is that they hear these stories, and they're not the only ones are going through these things as a PhD can be a very lonely experience. So you hear that other people experienced similar things, everyone in their own way, of course, but you're not the only one. And to also hear some tips and tricks on how these people managed to move faster, which could be very helpful for people who are doing their PhD Home Alone during lockdown. So that's how I tried to deal with it. And with mental health, I don't only mean the biggest things that people are going through, we had a guest who was very open about speaking how she was diagnosed with bipolar during her PhD. So obviously, that was a diagnosis, something she had to go through, that she wanted to talk about, which is very important, because not a lot of people speak up about these things. But it's also about someone who is just very much down by the imposter syndrome, which is not necessarily something that you're diagnosed with, but something you can struggle very much with end up could lead to all kinds of other issues. So it's a really wide spectrum. And I just really like also discussing the hard parts, but they are parts of doing a PhD of being an academia. And I think we can learn a lot from each other.

What you said about, you know, the Ph. D being such a lonely experience, and sometimes it is and, you know, when you're struggling with, you know, am I am I doing this right? Am I getting it right, and you're spending so much time with your nose and books or you know, burning the midnight oil and that kind of thing. It really can do a number on you mentally. So what are the benefits of podcasting for you the hosts?

So, first for me to host and then, Ido, as a producer and editor, I guess, because we really do have very different roles, which makes it easier for us, I think that it is for you as a one man show. And I also feel like I'm doing the most fun part. So I'm happy with it. I think what I learned from hosting this podcast is definitely listening. Like it's not only preparing a podcast organising that with the guests and and having a script ready that you then just read out, it's really about listening to what the other person has to say. And then play with that try to, you know, get into to continue on what they have said or to listen to the details and then be able to make it a full circle later on again. So it's been very important to listen, which is a very important skill. And then I've also been focusing on speaking very much to speak a little bit slower, a little bit clearer. I'm more aware of my accent. Not sure if I'll ever get rid of that. But people think it's funny. So it's all right. And then next to that, I'm not only hosting the podcast, but also working on other projects. We have a YouTube channel. We have a blog on our website. And we did an ECR conference that we've organised together. And we're also trying to grow our audience on all kinds of social media platforms like Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. So that's a whole world that's opening up to me that I'm learning about, but that's still a work in progress.

How about you Ido?

from my side, I think it's kind of about how a side project as a diversion from work and PhD and everything else going on, and I do like having a lot of new projects and different projects to play with, I think one of the main benefits of this academic podcasting is being exposed to the entire academic Twitter society, making new friends, virtual friends, mainly for all over the world, learning about the new fields of research, and when I would have never imagined that there is a person in the Netherlands, doing a research on bananas. And ever since we've met Fernando, we love Fernando, we're a lot of we're in close interaction with him. And he's just the best example of someone that I would have never met outside of that podcast project. And learning and making people from from the Netherlands and India, and Afghanistan and Africa and the US and Canada, basically, all over and learning about what they do. And as a producer, I do the pre talk with each guest. So before then doing the recording, I meet with them, and we do our own smaller version of the entire talk. Because I learn about what they do and what they like and what they don't like, what they want to talk about and what they would like to refrain from talking about. And all of these things are so interesting. And since it's all off record, then it's sometimes it goes to completely different areas of talking. And for the podcast, it's important that at the end of that pre-talk I will have some notes for Danni. So she will know what to talk about, what are the interest? Do they have anything to plug in the in the episode? But for me, sometimes the talk goes completely outside, we have a guest, also from the Netherlands. Don't know why, I have the Dutch examples today that her field is all about feedback, and supervision and how supervisors should provide feedback to she let's plug her the @HaPhDsupervisor happy PhD supervisor, on Twitter, and she. When we did that pre talk, I learned so much from her, that conversation was so educational for me, that actually changed completely in my point of view, and how I provide feedback to others, and what feedback I should be expecting from other people and supervisors. And people are the people I work with, during the away work together. So I've learned a lot, even from that side of that podcast.

That's a huge, huge benefit. And something I've ever never actually, you know, thought about articulated, and you just did that beautifully. You know, that idea of how much we can learn, you know, from what we're hearing. And, and I think that when people come on as guests, you know, the benefit to us, in what we learn is great, but but they're also learning to articulate themselves and articulate their research in a very accessible way to the layman. Right? And, and so that that benefit there is huge, you know, the learning is just so reciprocal. So what do you what would you guys say from your perspective? Is are the benefits of of podcasting or being guests on a podcast for the guests? What would you say the benefits are for them?

What do the guests take away from being on the podcast? Well, first of all, we really just want to listen to their story, right? We want their story to be out there. so other people can take tips and tricks from it, or just escape a little bit for usually the 15 minutes to an hour and that the episodes last. It's very important to us that they are then you know, in the spotlight, so we also put in some effort, or we publish the episode to promote them on our social media. And we like you said also use some of their pictures, we talk about what kind of research they're doing, what they're affiliated with. So usually their universities are also tagged, and then hopefully that gets picked up on by those platforms as well. So it's a lot about getting that publication that they need also being ecrs and then being able to write that for themselves on their resumes, as you've also already mentioned. And regarding learning, I'm not sure if the guests necessarily learn anything from me as a host. I'm quite fascinated I'm interested in their stories, but I'm not telling them what to do or how to do certain things. And I don't feel like I'm in that place anyway. But for me sometimes ask questions that sometimes I already do know the answer to, but that I just asked them a little bit stupidly so that they can give me that answer and give me that information. So that maybe people in the audience have haven't heard that before. do get the takeaway that from the conversation.

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm sure that you guys have had some, some guests on who, whether their research, you know, was is sensitive, or, you know, maybe the the discussion started becoming, you know, a sensitive. You know, I guess my question for you is, how do you handle sensitive topics or issues that come up during the interviews.

So, as I said, Before, we do a pre talk. And some of the things come up in the pre talk. And I can, Danni already mentioned one of the, one of the situation of that, Sofia's story was that she was diagnosed as bipolar during her PhD. Now she's she's, she's champion of being a bipolar, an academic bipolar. So we knew that this is a topic that she would be happy to talk about. And I won't hide that this is an element of the reason we wanted her on the show, because we want to make that that voice even more public than she's doing, you want that voice on our show. But there are other cases that we only learned about the sensitive part, during the brief talk two examples that want to show so we can talk about them, there is nothing insensitive since they were on the show, we had Dr. Shelley Turner from Australia, who when we talked with her, we invited her because of the interaction we had on Twitter. We didn't even know about that element of the story. But she actually struggled with cancer during her PhD. And that story came up during the pre talk. So we learned about it. And then every time I ask the guest, do you want that to be an issue that we want to make sure that Danni will get to that and if it doesn't come up in the natural cause of the talk, then issue will ask a specific question about that. Or is it something you want to avoid? So we want to make sure that this is something that you want to convey, this is something that you want to talk about. So we're talking about this is a very inspiring episode. It's a very emotional episode. It's definitely one of my favourite ones. And another example, is of the hero. She's an Italian who did her PhD in Finland. And her story was about sexual harassment during the PhD by someone from the faculty, not her supervisor supervising this very supportive of the story. But again, the was a question of should you address it, there are some might be some legal aspects of referring for names and HR issues that might come up during. So we talked about it, we thought about together. And it ended up saying that, yeah, we can talk about it she wants to talk about you wanted to tell her story, but refrain from mentioning any names, for example, or making anything that will identify the relevant person, but the story was their story was important. And then Danni knows that she can talk about it, this is something that should be brought up. And this is how we approach most of the sensitive issues.

So one of the things that I'm really interested in from each one of you is, what is the funniest or the the weirdest thing that's ever happened during a pod cast recording for you.

So I did most of the recordings. And I'm happy to say that not too much interesting actually happens. I also like being a little bit in control. So it's better to not have major surprises while recording. But you know, the most random things could happen like you already mentioned earlier as these tantrums of the kids of the neighbours. I've had a kid who was standing here, I think for about 20 minutes knocking on every door in the building. And I heard him walking up and down stairs and knocking on doors and crying for his mom. He was obviously probably in the wrong building or something. And it was in the background of my recording and I was like I don't know what to do. Should I go out I'm trying to help this kid. But I'm in the middle of this recording. And this person was also talking about something very serious. I don't remember who it was, but it was definitely, you know, one of the further on into the compensation struggle kind of story. So I was really confused about how to deal with it, but Ido managed very well. So until now, I don't remember which episode it wasn't, I don't think anyone else will be able to hear it. That's great. But I've had a lot of people coming up on zoom with very strange backgrounds. I've had people coming in with a space background, one person had a really cool one because she's actually doing research about dragons. So she had this huge dragon from Game of Thrones and backgrounds. So that's always funny to see what backgrounds people are coming up, zoom with. And then I have one funny thing that really cracked me up. And I couldn't stop thinking about the whole episode was when I asked someone, this icebreaker question. And it was a very serious, serious person, very successful lawyer who's from Brazil, who's now doing her PhD and postdoc at Oxford University who's done internships in the most amazing places. Very serious, very interesting lady and then one of my icebreaker question was like if you could be on a reality show, what would you be on she said RuPaul drag race and I didn't see that coming at all. And she kept going on about it a little bit too. So that was a lot of fun.

It's great we really get to find

out about you know, the real people you know who they are really

that was Talita, Talita Diaz. I think, in my perspective is everything that is left on the editing floor I have so much fun listening to Danni making the mistakes and trying over and over again. She got the bear there I have to say which is a little bit which is the fun part of finding her mistakes about just in our last edited episode. She present Danni presented the CV of of the guest and she said that he's done his BA in something and started talking about this AM instead of the MA like Sure, I'll everything in but the thing is that some of the things we love to keep inside we love to keep the human touch the editing should never be you know to perfect. And therefore, we have the guest who is also a friend from the nervous centre on then was in for everyone were accordin and his dogs were in the area. So I left all the barking within the episode I could cut I could play with it. But it was the fun part of the keeping that that element of physics on right now because everyone's at home right now. So he kept all the barking and everything inside episodes. That's my fun part of the episode The editing. And as much as editing is not that much of a fun process. being outside of the recording, so I don't hear my own voice makes it easier to have more fun listening to Danni and the guest struggling and stuttering and trying to find their way into the right answer.

Yeah. And you know, it's funny because I haven't decided yet if I'm gonna edit that that piece out about me turning into a robot there but um, you know what, what the listeners didn't hear, you know, is the is the robot that I started sounding with my earphones and just before I asked that question about the funniest or the weirdest thing, because this now will be one of those for me, I'll have to remember that in the future that, you know, being you know, asking that very question about the weird, funniest thing that happens in the podcast. And just before that as when you're you guys send me the chat like Shelli, you know, sound like a robot like what's going on here? That'll be that'll be a good one for future thoughts for me. Um, so, you know, podcasts have been around, you know, since the early 1980s, apparently, and they've really exploded over the last several years. And as I was doing some research on, you know, before our conversation together, I found out that in 2020 podcast listeners actually hit a new high at 485 million consumers worldwide. I don't know if you knew this statistics or not, but according to a new york based statistical organisation called charitable, a total 885,262 new podcasts were launched worldwide into in 2020. So what do you guys see as the purpose for podcasts? And why do you think that podcasts are important for learning?

Well, podcasts are there to convey a message. And one of the things that every podcaster every new podcaster has to think about for himself or herself, is, what is the message and want to convey, and who is the audience I'm trying to convey to? So we are, we have a specific message of early career researchers in academia. So our target audience is a bit more specific than other podcasters who are trying to talk about, you know, cooking, and parenting or any other thing. And trivia you have so many different, similar podcasts that it is, it's amazing. But at the end of the day, each podcast has a unique voice. Each podcast has a unique message. And each podcast is aiming to a specific type of audience, or whether it's a general audience or narrow type of audience still you have your your audience that you're aiming for. So the idea is to convey a message, there is no doubt about that. That's the whole idea of podcasting, using your voice and taking advantage of the fact that there is a platform. You know, if you try to do an interview in, in regular media, you know that in TV, you will, if you get two minutes, you're lucky. In radio, if you get five to 10 minutes, yeah, that's good. In podcasting, you get as much time as you need to convey your message to talk about your story, or let someone else talk about their story. So it's much easier, it's more easygoing, and there are no time limits, there are no topic limits. And that's the whole idea of podcasting. And that's the advantage of podcasting.

Yeah, there's something for everyone. I think, you know, it's like a buffet, you know, you you don't like something certain on that buffet, you go for what you do like and, and, you know, what we end up finding is that you keep continue to go back when you find something that you like, you continue to go, because there's also something to be said about the loyalty of our listeners, and how they keep coming back when they find something, you know, that they like, you know, you just keep going back. And like you said, there's no timeline, there's always something new that can come up. And, you know, you don't have to relist into an old, you know, podcast over and over again, like a repeat of an episode. You know, you can there's always, you know, something new is going to be coming down the pipeline. So, has it been this is a question that that I have a particular answer about, and so I'm curious to find out what you think of it. Has it been your experience that fellow podcasters are supportive of one another?

Absolutely. I mean, since day one of podcasting, when we started going on Twitter, and other social media, the amount of support we received in India, in the podcasting, social media and this kind of other networks and support systems is amazing. It still amazes me, how non competitive podcasting world is. Let me rephrase it. How indie podcasting is because the commercialised versions, I'm sure they are much more competitive than that, but the indie version is so supportive and you might change your your supporting system, and you might meet other podcasters during the process of change and then meet more people and then change your your support system in that sense, but you will have a support system if you go out there and you be active on social media, whether it's Twitter or Facebook. I don't know Instagram, I don't know tik tok. This is a live to Danielle is the Instagram, but on Twitter, I am active and the person behind the account of the podcast and from day one, so much support in so many tips and advice. That definitely the answer is Yeah, there is support there is help and collaborations with proper PhD in first season, which by the way, I said before this is my first podcasting, no, I've been on Papa PhDs 100 episodes as we had a big panel there and there was a guest there. But and our most recent collaboration with Vikram from plant ology, which

planthropology

much easier to say Vikram, is also, we've done collaboration with him, which also doing double episodes where Danni has been a guest on his show, and he's been a guest on our show, but a lot of advices. And actually, at the end of 2020, or the beginning of 22,021, we've done a special YouTube episode, where we've had, I think, 12 podcasters, panel of 12, podcasters. I moderated that discussion. But all of them were either science or academic podcasting shows, all the hosts of these shows. And that was one amazing episode, we have it on our YouTube channel. And I think Vikram has also has the full episode on his show. And that just an example of how supportive and how close the podcasting surrounding really is.

Yeah, I think in that regard, you know, knows a bit better than me, because he is the editor. And he is in charge of that Twitter accounts. And I feel it on Twitter, we have the most reach, and also connecting with other podcasters. It's also happening a little bit on Instagram, which is the page I'm doing but too much less extend. But the collabs that we've done have been a lot of fun. And it's been nice to also see other hosts because like I said, I never done anything like this, like doing a podcast or hosting it before I just started going with it. So it's been nice to also speak with others talk with them. And they've been very, very supportive from what I've seen.

So as we wrap up our conversation together, which has been really interesting, from my perspective, if a listener was interested in starting their own podcast, what advice would you give to them?

One of the things that I really like about our podcast is how consistent we are. And I think that really helps. And I've also heard that from other podcasters. So far, we have a quite good structure that seems to work. So people know a little bit of what to expect, even though we have different guests in different fields and different objects every time. There's something to hold on to like the lives up to your expectation as a listener. But it's also in the little details like I have my signature drink. That's something that people always expect. And they know that the more laid back. And we have our little music in intervals, of course. So I think it's in those details.

Well, my response is going to be from my side of the show a bit from behind the scenes. First thing is learn the technicalities, learn where you want to host the podcast where you how you want to play with a lot of services, we're using our free service, there are paid services to host a podcast, learn how to edit audio files, play with it. You don't have to be an expert. It's very easy. It's very comfortable. And there are a lot of easy tools to do it. And record several episodes before you go on there. Don't rush into it. Learn how to learn your pace during your structure. Find the format. And don't get discouraged before because your first episodes are going to not going to be as good as your later exit you're going to get improved. And also don't get don't get discouraged by numbers. Numbers are not important. I said if you know what is your target group. It's it makes it easier to understand. If you're looking for dozens of listeners or 1000s of listeners, what are you aiming for. And if you want to get to the big numbers, it requires a lot of forks for us a lot of dedications it's not necessarily worth it. If this is just a hobby that you're doing on this site. It's you don't necessarily have to dedicate your life to it. convey your message convey Your sound convey your structure, and just have fun with it. And no one becomes a hit show overnight. So just have fun with it. And don't get discouraged because there are a lot of podcasts out there. And all of them has a place and be active on social media, because that's the that completes the picture of being a podcaster. Being on social media is very, very important and useful and beneficial.

Beautifully said. Ehm, Danni and Ido, the host and the producer of what are you going to do with that podcast? Thank you so much for being guests on my podcast, talking about all the important aspects of learning and growing while doing podcasts and being podcaster. Thank you so much, guys, for joining me today. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for having us. It was fun. I hope that you've enjoyed this discussion on a dash of salt, a space where you'll always find fresh and current discussions on society and learning today. Season with just the right touch of experts in education and a dash of sociological imagination. Please be sure to like and share this episode. And don't forget to subscribe to a dash of salt on pod bean so that you don't miss the next episode. Thanks so much and we'll chat again soon.