And I'll just share a quick little story here. I think that'll help people crystallize. Like, how am I going to do this? Who hates small talk and chit chat, I mean, most people probably don't like it. I like it. Of course, I'm very social. Talking about the weather yesterday. My father in law loves the weather. And so if he wants to talk about that, I'm going to talk about that with him. But I think what I'm saying here is you have a little bit of time, when you're sitting down with your donor, whether you're coming on Zoom, whether you're sitting with them in their office, that is your sweet spot, to find a small thing that matters, asking what's going on? How is the family what's you know, what's new in your life? Tell me about that picture. Here's a little hack I use whenever I would go into a meeting with someone, when I walk in, I would take whatever that split second is three seconds, and I would look around. And I would say what's important to this person based on what's in this room? Is it a bunch of trophies, it's a lot of pictures of themselves, that's tells me I probably need to talk to about them quite a bit, is it pictures of their family, is it you know, photos of them fly fishing, or their cabin, it's like, these are opportunities to engage to talk about things that you find are small little things that you could have in common. So here's some tips. Slow down, and be really present in those conversations. Look around you be observant, you know, and put that dadgum phone on silent unless you have a sick child at home. Because even just those little red notifications that pop up, distract us from that deep connection that we're trying to foster within the person that is there. And that is where the micro moments really begin.