awesome, thank you. So I went ahead. Okay, I went ahead and started that. I really liked in the I think it was in the documentary I forget who said it. I don't I might have been you. I think it was someone else who said it but talking about creating a space where women could be upfront about where they might even be racist or have racist ideologies and to create the space specifically not just for women, but women of color, and then how it's branched off from there. So I was talking with B about having sister fire this year being three queer black artists who I've talked with all of them individually and they're such amazing human beings, so excited there. But to like shift from not necessarily having female identifying or like women, women identities and how that is, like shifting, so I just wanted to hear more about maybe like, how that's been incorporated. If it's been a natural shift or if it's just been, you know, not even conscious. It's just been these are the artists who we want to have represent this cause.
Yeah. It's a good question. It's really it's a good question. You know, when we found it roadwork, all of us back in the day. I mean, this was right around just right after Roe vs. Wade. And, you know, it was women was a radical thing to say and, and the beautiful thing about movements over time, is that, you know, we quick we keep growing and learning. And, and so, I wonder sometimes if we're starting roadwork now what it would be. Yeah. You know, like if it what would we call it? Would it be putting women's culture on the road? Or would it be more, you know, gender inclusive, or would it be both? I, I don't know. Because I'm 70. Now. No, and and, and so the beautiful thing about roadwork you know, it's like a dream come true is that younger artists activists are envisioning a board.
Yeah, and it says a lot about an organization who's willing to go with that new vision as well. So
that so um, you know, we you know, those of us who are around we provide some of the history some of it it's all really important. I always say like to I teach about Jerusalem and I always say like, you know, the most important thing are the mistakes. You know, not to be afraid of those and to honor those they're not really missed. There are no mistakes, there's just growing and learning in a way. I mean, I shouldn't say there are no mistakes. That's that's not right. But but, you know, the mistakes are basically learning tools. And that's, you know, the point about, you know, as anti racist, you know, white people are people with white skin privilege. However, we define ourselves. You know, it's not just about systemic racism. It's not just about systemic misogyny, but it's also about that within ourselves. So what would we do now? Like, how do I embrace I embrace everything that I'm learning from next generation artists, activists, including my own child who's 26 So, you know, I was a became a mother at 44. And so And the beautiful thing about what a bee bee has curated in terms of her vision, is its black queer artists, activists, who are DC based, who are asking everyone to think about what about love, you know, so it's, you know, it's inviting everyone and to think about that. Yeah. So it is multi dimensional, multicultural, multiracial, multi everything all because they are taking their stance of who they are, but they're inviting everyone.
Yeah, I was talking with the about that creating that space where you know, when queer love your own love that you feel is so radicalized almost in regular conversation, then, you know, there's no space for you to actually heal and love yourself. So how can you ever expect to be loved or to love outwardly with anyone else? So creating that space was talking with her about that was really interesting. Going off of like that to actual space in the mission statement, I was reading about, you know, are being in urban spaces to make it accessible, and I know SR fire this year. And I think past two years has been at the Kennedy Center and that's a really powerful space to hold, as, you know, for these artists as as queer artists and black artists. So is what's the significance behind? I don't know how the Kennedy Center got introduced as you know, the space for this to be held, but can you give me some insight into how that was chosen and is able to be maintained.
So that when we have the sister fire revival, or it was really considered a reunion at the time, the one that tushy Rican curated into those in 18 it was it was held up at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival, which is really historically interesting place for it to be held. This was in 2018. And the Smithsonian was a place where both I worked you know, in my 20s and 30s. Dr. Bernice Johnson Rican ran a whole program and African American culture there, founded it and ran it there, and also was a part of the Folklife Festival when she was a student, a PhD student at Howard University. So it was really very powerful to come back and have Toshi who had first performed at SR fire, which is 19. In 1983, curate that, and one of the things that this the Folklife Festival had been doing was working with the Kennedy Center to also hold some concerts out in the millennium stage. And the Millennium stage was a stage that was actually created in 2000. At the moment, as a free space in the foyer or in the like the big I don't know what to call it. It's like that, like big giant space between all the halls where you pay lots of money, or the concerts, but this is what's like a free space that was put up in 2000. I remember I was still working at the Smithsonian back then. And my child was four and and they were at the Smithsonian date daycare and we would go to the Millennium estates after my work and her thing, their thing her thing, whatever she calls herself now and and be in that be in that those concerts every night. It was amazing. Free concerts every single night of the year. Oh, wow. That is amazing night for free. It was insane. So we would just, you know, on the way back up Rock Park stuff over there at six to seven. So it was beautiful to get offered that space and then Toshi curated that space in 2018 and be several was one of the artists. I saw that and and also with two other artists. And and so it's just really moving and fitting that be as the curator is so that I just wanted to give you the history of that. There is a historical thing that happened in 2018. And the folks that run the Millennium stage they were blown away because for that concert that we did that night, the whole space from one wall to the other, like you know where you'd enter all the different halls was filled with people like there weren't even enough seats, and there was a wall to wall SR tire people. So they're like, wow, you know, like, what's going on? And so they after that in 2018 invited us to come back every year to do that. And we you know, thought about it and you know, we're not this is not the 80s or the 70s or the 90s anymore, and it just really seemed like an awesome thing to do to localize that sort of, you know, kind of official space and and grassroots of buy it Yeah. It's free. You know, all their stuff is top quality. And they, you know, support us doing what we want to do at that stage is like crazy. I mean, there was be singing let's go home and have gay sex. We'll do it for the President. Like at the Kennedy Center.
Oh, I love that.
You know, people like nodding their heads and then wondering like what am I not? And so, you know, we have gone back every year and and we love it and I mean, maybe one year we'll do a bigger sister fire that that will be you know, the Millennium stage and something else wherever. But not anytime soon. So for now, it's like a beautiful home for Sister fire. And incredibly, Teresa legato, who is the head of the head of the millennium stage Now had I mean I'd love it if I don't know if you'd be able to type you have time to talk to her. I'd be really interesting to hear what she would have to say about us being there. We just are so I wouldn't call it grateful. We're just so joyous and rejoicing about her support because we feel like we could bring something there. They give us a venue to re imagine you know in a very radical local image of arts activism. You're unafraid. No happiness there. I mean, yeah.
I mean, it feels good because it you know your message is being received and welcomed. So that no, that's wonderful to hear. So with 2018 being the revival when was the last official sister fire before that?
So the last sister buyer before that was 1989.
Okay, and then what was the reason for the revival or the reunion what kind of sparked like, hey, let's round these people back up.
Yeah. So in 2016, one of our I don't know what even to call her. She was a chair of our board. She's now passed over she had the A ID propose that roadwork started roadwork on oral history and documentary program. To really Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon has always said you've got to leave a trail. That's one of her quotes that we love. And the other quote that we love her with everything she says is just amazing. But the other thing is it's she says if you if you feel something's missing, it's probably the sound of your own voice.
So yeah, it wasn't a documentary. I stopped and posited after that when I was.
No, it's just so it's so real. And so when when ervice she said we've got to do oral oral history you know, it was a powerful moment. She brought in a team of people, Yvonne well badan who is a black queer filmmaker, who's out of Chicago who is a critical day of hers. And not a hologram who actually was a part of doing the documentary on Michelle Obama. Sabrina Gordon, who did the documentary on Sonia Sanchez. She wanted to give her this really great team, we started doing these oral histories of people. And out of that came this idea of well why, you know, as the younger people who are working on the project, you know, we're listening to oral histories. We're saying what happened at SR fire? Why don't we do SR fire and I went back to the Smithsonian Folklife Festival, and they said, Sure, let's do it. And they were willing to do it until she was willing to. to curate it. And Earth helped raise the money for it. And and so we did it. That's, that's, you know, it was it was it was came out of that oral history project and really was just going to be a reunion. It wasn't going to be a revival of roadwork, we were really just doing an oral history and documentary of the history of roadwork, the younger folks said, Well, why are we doing a history of roadwork, Why isn't it going forward? Yeah, and that was one of the older ones of us said, Well, you know, we're basically sitting on the porch in our rocking chairs now. I mean, we will advise you, but it can't be our vision. You know, it has to either be your vision going forward or we go back to it having been just a reunion of a few years, and yeah, and it did His work. Things don't have to last forever.
Know that. Yeah. And I mean, they can evolve.
You know, it's wonderful. So So, so that was so in 2018. It was the 40th anniversary of roadwork so roadwork is incorporated as a 501 C three by Bernice and me by Dr. Vegan and myself and two others in August 16 1978.
Wow. So, that
was you know, the 40th anniversary. Yeah. So, innovation
in the organization. Okay. So when the last SR fire happened in 1989 was the end be because, you know, people go their separate ways you have different things going on? Or was there like a specific thing that did you know, was gonna be the last one
big story, it's probably a story for another article. But I'll tell you, you know, the 1987 there was what we call the marketplace incident. And that was a confrontation between two white lesbian separatist women who came to the festival and thought they could just have their marketplace booth and not allowed men and two sisters, Spark volunteers, so her two black gay men who were going through the Marketplace doing their job and tried to go in and were blocked from going in a booth and there was an you know, really tough experience and we're open. We've always been open to everybody and all genders to come. And, you know, it was festival went on for a few years after that. But we, you know, at that point couldn't recover from that attack that we received from the radical lesbian separatist movement. I mean, we sister if I was called Mr. Fire in some of the journals, and
you know, and and so it Yeah, it just didn't it didn't survive that. But that's I think a bigger story. I've written about that in this. Have you ever seen a book
that Sweet Honey in the Rock called gotta make this journey? Still on a journey? You can only
but I don't think I have I have a cover.
Anyway, it's out of print now, but you can find you can find my chapter on my website. Okay. Perfect. And it's minus called some factors in the equation. Anyway. It's a it's an important book and you could find it on Amazon. It was edited by Bernice. And each chapter is a different person in sweet honey and some of the people that worked with them writing stuff, and I wrote a little bit I wrote a chapter and British was the editor and she said, You left out sister fire and I said it was too painful. And she said write it. So I did. You know, I wrote a little teeny thing about it. That probably you could if you found it could quote me there. It's it's already in print. And I would or I was looking for an every I buy them every time I find them on Amazon and give them away. Like you could find them for $3. If you look up, I think it's called still on the journey. We who believe in freedom, but if you do Sweet Honey in the Rock double day, that was the publisher, or Bernice Johnson Reagon. Anyway, it's an it's an amazing book to have. Yeah,
I'm gonna look that up for sure.
Here I would just strap it up at your house when I came back. This is what I do. I just buy them and give them away so that I don't have any more here.
So good. Plenty of other people have um, I guess.
The very end of my chapter which is on my website. Bernie's forced me to write about CES SR fire and you know what, what happened there?
You can check your website for it to
but anyway, yeah, so that's so that's a long time that it wasn't happening.
Yeah, yeah, it was. And then I was wondering, it picked up with the revival or the reunion. In 2018. And then you were saying the Kennedy Center has been inviting you back each year, during COVID. Was this happening online? Was it a break?
Okay, so during COVID What happened was at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival did the festival online for both of those years, they invited us to be part of it. And you can find did you find that I send you a link of our sister fire thing at the Folklife Festival?
Yes, the 40 year anniversary.
There's there's two other ones we did that are really cool. One was it's a longer story, but um, was on Palestine. One was, um, it was a Palestinian woman poet and a Palestinian cookbook, author. And that's a really cool and if you look up Sr, fire, Palestine, Smithsonian, you'll you'll see that website. It's really beautiful. And that was online. And then the other one we did was called Sister fire song talk. And that was a combination across generation. Do you know who Barbara Dana's she's a 90 something year old, white woman blues singer who actually sang with Louis Armstrong and people like that and she was a communist radical. Activist singer forever she's still alive. So we have her and then Leila McCullough, who's New Orleans based black woman. Banjo cello player. Do you know who Amethyst Kia is no. Amethyst Kia was on and then Marta Gonzalez is a Latin Grammy Award winning winning singer so they were all in like, like what we used to do at SR fire would be have like a lot of people on stage together women on stage together and do what was called a round robin. So that so that we did those two during COVID. And then so that was so we did 2018 Two that's the 19 at the Kennedy Center. 2020 and 2021 we did online with the Smithsonian. And you can find those online and then 2022 Last year we went back to the Kennedy Center and we had Sweet Honey in the Rock and Roy Marsh who is a fiercest of fierce I mean spoken word radical I'm not can't remember if she calls herself queer or lesbian, black, lesbian or queer from New York I mean, out of the park incredible and and the Oh wonderful. So out into the US and it we had Yasmin Williams, who's a steel guitar, black steel guitar player, and my daughter, Arielle, who's a violinist and B. So please bear with us. I think B's been there every year. Oh, wow. That's wonderful. I have to check that. I think she's been there every single year and yeah, and this is the first year curate. Yeah, so
I know I'm these curating with. You mentioned the round robin kind of structure and I know this year it's going to be the three individual artists get to do 10 minutes or something, then they're going to come together and do something really kind of raw together and kind of get to experience it with the audience, which I'm so excited for. But is that typical is it would it be like a collaboration at the end? Okay.
That's a sister fire. kind of way that we did SR fire and that's something we learned. You know, one of our great teachers, one of SR fires grade teachers was Toshi Seeger, who was the wife of Pete Seeger. And Savior was a radical folk singer in the 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s and he died in the early 2000s. He died in the 2000s at 90 something and Toshi also did die to that those times and they're the godparents of Toshi Reagon Satoshi is named after Toshi Seeger. She was an amazing producer of folk stuff and she was one of our Toshi seekers, one of our teachers. So we took that model and adapted it from her teachings and she was also someone by the way, who booked the snick freedom singers. And the snick Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee is snick was the group that traveled well, they traveled not just with Martin Luther King, Jr. But on their own, traveled around during the Civil Rights Movement. You know, raising awareness around racism and until she secret book them
So, okay, go ahead.
So that's a sir our legacy comes out of, you know, the civil rights movement, anti racism, movement, the labor movement. I mean, in the women's various women's movements, advocate lesbian movements force. That
collaboration that was inspired by Toshi is that was there a specific like purpose behind it, you know, to make maybe like artists outside their comfort zone or to see the new
like, the way different artists can collaborate to make a new art form, or was there something like else behind it, or was it just the tradition of, you know,
yeah, what's behind it? I mean, this is my interpretation, so I can't speak for her but what's behind it? Is that you know, there's a there's a congregational approach to culture that and, you know, a lot of furnaces Dr. Bernice Johnson, Reagon Scalia was about that congregational approach that's not just in black music, but as is the organizing principle. Congress congregational. So you know what happens? I mean, it's wonderful to have people do their solo work and hear them but what happens when people respond to each other and they go, Oh, that reminds me. Oh, something I haven't thought about in 25 years, or or two minutes or, you know, whatever. And then that kind of activism, because you didn't write it out. And you're, you're, you're experiencing in the moment. So it's, it's that kind of living culture. And that's where I think that's where that that comes from, and I think that's a part of traditional culture, wherever it might be. So it's sort of, you know, honoring that that kind of unscripted. space of interaction.
No, that makes sense that I'm happy I asked because I I like seeing it in that way. And I liked the way the congressional approach to culture I really liked that.
congregational
cut, that's what I meant. What did I say congressional congregational? Yes. For the Congress, to many Khan and then G so that kind of wrapped up where I wanted to, what more I wanted to know about but I was I reached out to the interim director, how do you pronounce her name?
Label Unani
they're going on. That's a beautiful name. Yeah, I reached out last week and then did a follow up email today.
So hopefully, I'll get a response. So I can set up a time to talk more about roadwork today so that an article about like the history with roadwork and SR fire can can go out.
Yeah, I should have I should be really powerful. I know she's he's a busy one. But try try to try to see if I can happen. Yeah, all
good luck. I mean, don't feel bad. It's not you. It's just She's She's. She's way. Way busy.
No, I imagine with SR fire coming up as well. Is there anyone else you think I should reach out to for the story of like the overview of the history of SR fire and roadwork?
I mean, you could try to reach out to Toshi, if, if she I don't know if she'll be able to respond, but you could try that and you could try
I can also once I go through the different like links you said and links that I'm going to find and this interview, I can see what the questions are that I have and then you can direct me towards who might be the best I suppose. Yeah, yeah, I'll probably do that. But you
