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Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky. And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Thank you. So happy right now
I have mentally already put another plate out at Thanksgiving dinner for two lain at my family's table. That is how much I have loved getting to know her already right now to
make it happen. Let's go.
Oh my gosh, like we are just so enthusiastic because you know, this community is all about creating space for conversations around just like minded folks like valued folks that are doing cool things around the sector. And we want to break down walls, we want to lock arms together with people that believe in what we're building. And we are talking to somebody today that I would call a complete trailblazer in this space, somebody that has the lived experience to be able to show up in a really deep and centered way. But she is like, I don't know revolutionized how venture philanthropy is looking at this space and how people galvanizing gather and grow. And so it is a huge honor to introduce you to to Elaine Montgomery today. She is the CO CEO of new profit and you know, we've had new profit on the show before like we love the work that they're doing. But she was part of the founding team that launched this incredible you know, incubator of investors that believe in the power of philanthropy to really shift some of the broken systems that are below the surface and really going deep on issues. But she also leaves new profits inclusive impact which is a comprehensive sector wide system change strategy that's designed to increase investment and capacity building support for leaders of color and she's also just had this incredible nonprofit career and I can walk you through all of her incredible experience but I want to pick out one of them because we were just fanning over this but she was the leader of the House of Blues foundation at one point which is just going to be so epic like to hear the stories of dads like
John Lee Hooker loving heart would absolutely love that completely Buddy Guy baby
is also an accomplished cellist and a writer she's written and produced five original plays. So I feel like this already needs to be a multi part series because we got so much to talk to you about to land pull up to the table. We're delighted.
Yes, I'm so glad to be here. I feel so welcomed. And just so affirmed, right like it's a community as medicine, I firmly believe that I'm not the first person to say that but I'm certainly someone who believes and tries to live. Acknowledging that community is medicine, we human beings need community to be well physically and emotionally and we certainly need it to be creative enough to solve our world's most pressing problems. So I'm thrilled to be in community with both of you today.
Thank you for that. I mean, that's a core value of us on this whole gathering around this this community is everything and you know, we believe that when we started We Are For Good from our own careers but then the community that encircled This is opened up and grown our vision because of that, so I'm there with you and I just thank you for centering the conversation with that but Okay, before we go all deep, we want to get to know you and your story and just talk us about your writing journey growing up what got you into this role today?
Yeah, happy to and you know, one thing I will confess they talk a lot these days about powerful vulnerability, you know, and so I will be vulnerable and say, you know, I'm often in kind moments, where I'm in conversations, but take Think with younger folks. And they'll start a meeting or conversation with me. And they'll say, so tell me your story. And I always have a moment of, I don't know, I'm just here talking with you. So I am acknowledging, to both of you and to the listening audience in the We Are For Good community, that the telling of my story is not necessarily my place of strength, but it is something I'm happy to to offer, I think I'm going to begin my story with saying that whatever I've done, as an adult professional has been really around the core idea that we have access to, we will, I should say, definitely, we ideally would all have access to everything that we need to thrive. However, we define that for ourselves, right. And the, the, it's not for lack of existence of the resources we need. It's for lack of access, you know, equitable access. And so from the time I was very young, I would, whenever I got exposed to something that I thought was good, or wonderful or helpful, I got really energized by the thought of getting that good thing to other people who didn't have it. You know, it was always my story. So, you know, I was raised working class economically. And because of the cello, I started playing the cello at a very young age and middle school, I fell in love with the sound. I was in public school back when public schools had music programs, right. And so we've got to bring music programs back because my god, I remember that I was sitting in the auditorium. And you know, every teacher, recruiting potential students for their instrument would do a little, you know, mini performance. And so, you know, you can imagine you could probably guess, right, which were the instruments that most people went for if you had to guess, you know, violin, violin,
right. I feel like there's a lot of clarinets, there
was a lot of clarinet. There was also, you know, we kept it funky at my middle school, there was a trumpet and saxophone, right. So people love that gets right. Right, people were into it, the brass. And then at the end of a long line of musicians, the cellist came on. And as soon as I heard that sound, I literally fell in love with it, I can, I can feel it now, even as I remember that time many, many years ago. So I fell in love with the sound and went home and told my mother and father, I want to play the cello. And they said, Oh, okay, baby. And the one thing that was really clear, was able to support me. And they did, that I was taught that I better not drop that thing, I better take good care that was a public school system instrument, it had property of the Cambridge Public School System carved in the back. And so whenever I would walk to and from school, if I ever slipped and fell into winter, which sometimes happen on those icy streets, the body would fall, the cello would rise. My point
my point in that story is that I fell in love with something that then brought me into spaces that I might not have been in otherwise, playing the cello. And having that be a big part of my life, meant that I often saw the way people lived across different economic classes, across different communities across different cultures. And when I saw something that I thought was delicious, delightful, helpful, I always got excited about sharing it with as many people as I could. And so I think that the theme of gathering and sharing has been at the heartbeat of, you know, my entrepreneurial journey. So that's a little bit of my story at the super macro lens. You know, I think the other thing I'll share is that I've had an interesting journey of learning how to completely accept what I feel like is my calling and purpose in the world. So I did have a season in my career, where I had people who really love me, who I really love, who mentored me and guided me, who told me a long list of things that I should do, right. So you should pursue this career, you should get this particular degree, you should do these things. Because you have the ability to, and your community needs you to do these things. And there was nothing wrong with those roles that they were telling me about. But they weren't what was really in my heart, I wanted to do something that was focused on social impact. And so I remember my first set of jobs were in the business strategy space, I gained skills I value, but my heart was somewhere else. And when I made the decision to move into education and social entrepreneurship, there was a group of people who love me who I loved, who questioned the choice at the time. They're in a different place now, but then they were like, Baby, I'm not so sure that's the right thing for you. Wouldn't you like to do something that has more security, or you know, that we've seen before? Because I've worked in some spaces and places that are very unfamiliar, you mentioned House of Blues, we'll get into that. But when I first told folks I was working at the House of Blues foundation, you can imagine there were some quizzical looks like what does that mean? Oh, You're working with musicians and teachers and organize how does that work? So anyway?
Well, I have to reflect a lot of that back to you as the daughter of a junior high music school teacher. I just want to thank you for uplifting the arts and music and friends. If you have never listened to cello music I sorry, John, I have to do this. Go listen to box suite number one, you cannot go wrong. Listen to Yo Yo Ma, it will change your life. But I just feel this. This sense of generosity of spirit when you talk and there's, there's so much less me and so much more about we and like what we can do together. And this is why I think, bringing you in and having these conversations today about proximate leadership, we're talking about what it means to be a co CEO, and about how do you share your power? And how do you share your power for good. And I want to talk a little bit about proximity as this just incredible power for change. So talk to us about how you've seen this concept. And for anyone that's new to it. Talk to us about Sure. Proximity is power, the simple act of who you spend your time with, is who you become. And of course, friends, we're going to be the on the advocating sides and surround yourself with purpose driven, equitable, inclusive people. Because those are the people that check their ego at the door. Those are the people that are rising up to share what they have talked to us about your philosophy around this and what you've learned, as you've kind of navigated your leadership journey.
Absolutely. Well, you know, the way that in my current role with new prophet, the way that proximity came to our focus that came to be really the the keystone of our impact strategy was that we were fortunate enough to have Bryan Stevenson, author of Just Mercy phenomenal social impact leader, if you haven't checked out his TED talk or read Just Mercy, I encourage you to do it. You know, he was at one of our annual convenings. And Bryan Stevenson talked with us at the new profit, broader community, it was about probably 250 of us in the room at the time, he talked about the power of proximity. And the thesis that Bryan Stevenson offered, that I completely support and by is, you know, he was focusing on the criminal justice system in the US. And his thesis was like, Look, if you go to incarceration systems and prison systems, in other parts of the world, where there have been great, you know, traumas and sufferings, you know, from Germany, to Rwanda, you know, there is still a recognition of the humanity of the human beings who are incarcerated. And what happened here in the US is that we began to behave as if the fate of some of us has no impact on the fate of all of us. And the absence of proximity in the US the fact that we live such segregated lives in this country, that that is the thing that enabled and facilitated such a biased and broken criminal justice system. Right. So those people over there, what happens to them doesn't really matter to me and my people over here. Whereas in other parts of the world, there's a recognition that these people who have to yes face a consequence for their choices or their crime, that they are still one people, and they are still part of the society in which I live. So that's where proximity as just a core principle and belief and value really came to New profits, attention, and that was several years ago, and we started to at that point, really take on Okay, what does it mean for us, as a venture philanthropy as an institution that raises capital, moves capital, and invest in leaders? What does it mean for us to really take that on, and to ensure that we are not only proximate to the communities that we care about and support, but also guided by the insights of those communities that we support. So there's more I can say about it. But the sort of origin story of how proximity as a value really started to play out with my work and with new profit. It was Bryan Stevenson's wisdom and guidance many moons ago. And you know, what I'll tell you is that I've come to understand that in the US, we actually really do understand that proximity is power in the sort of consumer space. So like if I had a product or a gadget or an invention that I wanted to sell, I would if I'm smart, invest lots of time and money and researching, studying and listening to my target customer base, right. I would have focus groups, I would tell you my product, I would do r&d, I would put a lot of energy into not just studying my target customers but listening to To them, and changing what I do based on what they tell me, that would be smart business practice. But then we go into the social impact space and the social change space. And we kind of act like it's possible to identify and come up with the best solutions, essentially ignoring our constituents, our clients in our communities. And it's strange to me why in one space, we really get the power of proximity, but in another space, we completely erase it.
And in the place where we erase it, is the place where we can systemically change things that will improve the world the most is back bass, ackwards that I cannot handle it. Right.
It's like, man, the walls just have to like, come down, you know, and we talk about this a ton. And I was really moved by some storytelling on your website before this interview of like, just this idea that I think is summated, kind of what you're saying so quickly, is the people closest to the pain should be closest to the power. And it does feel like a shift of just how a lot of times we solve for these things. And you are leading us into talking about listening. And I want to camp out about listening, you know, talk about creating that stillness, talk about some of creating the space and the habits, you know, as leaders to slow down and pull in enough to realize that that's a priority for this year.
Yeah, no, I think I'm so glad that you raised that. Because, you know, John, one thing that happens, you know, there is more of a movement and philanthropy that we want to include the people who are closest to the pain, and we believe in that, obviously. But there's an additional step that is about the power of proximity. And it is the listening, right? It's it's the trick of the gag is as some would say that it's not just about that those people are suffering the most. So give them access to capital, it's not just that, it's that they actually have the most insight. There is such genius and creativity and resourcefulness that exists. And so I have to tell you, that at New profit, as we have committed to investing in leaders who are proximate, we have found the most powerful solutions, we have found the greatest impact, we have found the most efficient models. It's not only about the pain, because I think sometimes when people focus only on the pain, you can slip into a charity mindset. And we're talking about something that is miles away from charity, we're talking about transformation. And transformation means that we have to get smart about recognizing excellence in genius, where it resides. And right now we have some systems beliefs and habits that give us a blind eye towards the abundant genius that exists in the communities that we say we want to support, and philanthropy and the social impact space. So it's not only about hey, they've been suffering help them it's actually not about that at all. It's about man, can we stop leaving impact on the table? Can we stop turning a blind eye towards genius that is abundant, because it's less familiar to the eyes of folks who in many cases have the financial resource, but the content resource and the idea of resource and the genius resources there are abundant in these communities, that we often mislabeled as disenfranchised or marginalized. I think that that is an inadequate way to describe communities, you know, I talked about overlooked, less protected, underestimated, as opposed to marginalized or, you know, you know, because they're strong, we just systematically have not provided the protection and regard that these communities deserve.
And it's about ethical storytelling. And I love that you went there, and it's about giving dignity. And you know, we had somebody on a couple of weeks ago that talks about, you know, why are we pulling in, you know, pulling people out of the river at the end? Why don't we go back to the beginning of the river and find out why they're falling in. And we, this has been a recurring theme on this podcast, that if you can share your power, if you can give it away to someone who is on the front lines of the issue, then the community becomes that of the community. And I just think that what you've done, and I'm not at all surprised that you came in here, and you completely flip the script on what proximity to power means because what you're saying is, we don't abuse our power, we give it away, we flip the script entirely and give the power to those who can make the most change. And so I'm curious about what you just see, like, yeah, on the horizon, like how can the social sector rise up? Meet this moment, you know, through trust through justice, through reconciliation, and flex this as as not just something that's trendy, not something that's just innovative. We want to bake it in to our cultures into our DNA. What advice do you have for them?
Yeah, I love that. So lots of advice and my advice is anything I'm advising I'm practicing So, which means, you know, that's Yeah, right. I mean, which means sometimes I get it right. And sometimes I have, you know, a whole set of failures. Yeah. So like, I just want to be like advice, I just want to make sure that I'm saying, cuz this folks listening this for as many folks can say, yes, she killed that there's other folks and be like, yeah, she's really killed that, you know, in the less positive way. So, you know, there's pros and cons. But I will say, first, the first piece of advice is like, look, let's stop ignoring the fact that as human beings, right, regardless, what you look like, where you come from, what you've been through that trust is the primary kind of fuel that we have to move resources that whenever resources move, whether it'd be an investment, in a traditional, you know, capital market sense, whether it be a grant, in a philanthropic sense, that trust is almost always what enables the unlocking of capital, right. And so let's get in the business of accelerating trust, let's get in the business of understanding what enables trust, telling ourselves the truth about what hinders trust, and accelerating trust across different across people who live and look differently from one another. Because I think part of where we are right now, just as a country, outside of even the social impact world, is that we have begun to write each other off, you know, and that where we used to have discourse across different ideology, we now discourse is almost seen as a form of death, like folks just don't have the musculature. Yeah, cancer called folks don't have the musculature to engage in discourse. And so building trust and trust doesn't mean, I agree with everything you say, Trust means I trust that you are human, that your life is worth as much as mine, and that your goals are worthy, just as mine are. And we may, you know, defer to the end of our days about the house, but that I will not define your worth and your humanity on the level of agreement you have with me. And I think that's the challenge of where we are right now, is that if somebody disagrees politically, particularly politically, there's a sense of writing people off. And I think that's the biggest risk we have. So my first piece of advice that was a long winded intro, my first piece of advice is like, let's get in the business of accelerating trust. I think my second piece of advice is, I think funders in particular, and folks who have been sort of centers of power, we've gotten really good at confusing familiarity with excellence. You know, so an entrepreneur is running a program model. And I recognize the way that model is run. And so that means it's good, versus how do I know that this program is actually having an impact? Well, have I heard from the constituents? Have I heard from the clients? Have I heard from partners? Where am I having to learn something I don't already know, to see the value of this model of this intervention of this coalition. So there's something about not confusing familiarity with excellence. That is really important as part of a change making strategy. So I see I see John giving me the quizzical look, I know when I'm ready for it.
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I feel like there's several things that that you're just like saying so much better than I feel like we've been trying to say so I'm just I'm here for it because we kind of started this year with laying out the trends that we want You know, the nonprofit space to more lean into it trust was absolutely one of those. I mean, we just weren't defining it at the kickoff episode because it bugs me to know in that the Edelman, you know, survey comes out that corporations are more trusted than nonprofits. I'm like, as someone who spent our careers and nonprofit It pains me to hear that. And so I think it's appropriate. You walking through like, how do we change that? And I think your explanation of confusing familiarity with excellence is a really powerful thing. Because I just in tell me if I'm interpreting this, right, but yeah, sure, using the words and talking about people's actual lived experience, using actual examples, tangible life change, is how we can be kind of an anecdote to that. And I think it does fit together. It's like showing actual transformation that's happening. It's not just like, because we said it did. It's actually showing that impact, which is a core value of of this entire enterprise. Like why we wanted to start this so am I hearing you right with that?
No, you're definitely hear me, right. I mean, let me give a couple examples to sort of take it out of the sky into the ground. So there's an organization that I have the privilege privilege of chairing the board of girl trick, girl, t r e. K girl trick, and girl trek is the largest network of focusing on building the health of black women in the US with over 1 million active members. With membership growing across western Eastern Africa and the Caribbean as we speak. It's an incredible movement. In fact, the founders, the co founders, Morgan Dixon, and Vanessa Garrison, have an incredible podcast called Black History bootcamp, which is among the top podcasts on the in the planet, because it's building on the incredible work of the girl trek movement. So I chair the board of girl trek. Now, girl trek is a great example of the genius of proximate insight, the power of proximate leadership, right, as opposed to the charity, let's give them something to help them, it's nothing like that it's a miles away from that, when it comes to the health outcomes of black women in the US, there's been quite a bit of research done and dollars invested to impact the health outcomes of black women, which have been, you know, disproportionately lower than compared to other groups of other racial identities, you know, infant mortality amongst black women is, you know, just unacceptable, you know, in the US and remain so the cases of doctors not recognizing symptoms and disease and black woman because they dismiss the reporting of pain and black woman in a way that's disproportionate. All of this is documented. We've seen cases like Serena Williams, where she helped to bring this issue to the national national court. Thank you, Serena. Thank you, Serena, for so many things. Thank you. So let's just pause for a moment and give flowers to Serena warrior. What a warrior, what a warrior. But my point is that many of these interventions, they failed, and it's not because people weren't well intended, or well researched, or even well funded. It's because they presumed the main reason that black woman had poor health outcomes was because of lack of knowledge and lack of movement. So you know, a lot of those interventions, they, you know, said Hey, eat healthy and move more, you know, if you behave better, if you make better choices, you black woman will be healthier. And they were built around that mental model that was inherently broken and inherently flawed, that it was simply about ignorance and lack of motivation. But what girl trek knew, because the leaders Morgan and Vanessa, what they knew, is that that was farthest from the truth that you can not find a group of human beings more motivated to do the best and do the most and give all they can than black women. Right? So it was not about motivation. And it certainly was not about ignorance. Black women are among the most educated community and demographic in this country. So they knew that they built a model that recognized the multiple systemic factors and stressors and inequities that impact the health of a black woman. And they built a model that enrolled over a million black women who are walking and you know, losing weight and lowering blood pressure and also getting them engaged in their civic life. So all over the country, Saturday morning, superhero Saturdays, black woman put on their blue T shirts, when the girl trek orange font riding, and they walk together 30 minutes on that Saturday, but 30 minutes a day for at least five days a week and they change their lives. But it's because the proximate leadership of Vanessa and Morgan enabled the design of a model that actually made sense for the community that they wanted to serve, as opposed to a model that did not feature proximity and designed based on limited and arguably incorrect information about the community. Am I making sense?
You're making total sense and I'm like, oh, over here, because I'm like, Girl, trick White House and tell us how you're doing this because I even won, I'm seeing the connection between what you're saying earlier about simply listening, like rejecting all of that unconscious bias that we have that completely damages our programs, before we even begin, and when you listen, and you pass the microphone and good on those founders for flexing the power of media, to give the voice to these women to pass the microphone to storytel. And I also think threading it through community is brilliant in getting because women show up for each other, and they help each other rise, and they pull the one who's the furthest back up to get in lockstep? And so I think that there's so many intrinsic values here. And I also like, I want to, I want to help people who are listening right now who are also pumping their fists and saying, Okay, I'm on board with this ideal, I want to be a part of the active change of flexing proximate leadership. So talk to us about maybe just a couple tangible ways that our listeners can practice and promote this. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. Well, one is, you know, I know that in conversations you've had with other members of the We Are For Good community, you've talked about how philanthropy is not simply reserved for the economic elite, that all of us, all of us have the ability to be philanthropist, and many of many of us understand that and behave accordingly. So I would say that, you know, whether you are, you know, a parent, focusing on making sure that your your students, your children are getting the kind of education they need. Take that time as you're in the conversations with the school district, and with the teachers, to listen. And teachers, same thing, like really, it's about creating space, to listen to one another. And to be informed. It's going beyond just the sort of making nice, and having conversations where you nod your head and then go back and do exactly what you were doing before. It's about seeking opportunities, whatever is your your arena, if your arena is the classroom, if your arena is the family, you know, living room, if your arena is a nonprofit, if your arena is the community organization, whatever your arena, to say, Who is it that I am serving? And do I have repeated opportunities to listen to and be guided by those I'm serving? If you are the manager in the company, and you have your staff team, if you are the CEO of the company, and you're thinking about you know, your your leadership team, whoever it is, we all have some group that we are working to serve all of us to. And it's interesting to think about, how often do I create opportunities to listen to and be guided by the people I'm serving? It really is that simple. It's hard to do, though, because we all get pretty attached to our plans. And one of the things that I've learned, you know, as I've worked to advance, you know, investing in proximate leaders, and recognizing the genius of proximate leaders, I've learned that one of the biggest missteps we can make, especially in the nonprofit world, we plan as if the most important factor is efficiency. So the faster we go, the better we think our work is. I see y'all nodding and make you feel
so true. And that explains why the sector is so scarcity minded rather than abundantly minded as well.
Like when you leave the US anytime I travel, that is the first things I notice. You know, it's just like we're obsessed with our schedule and all this efficient way of doing instead of like, letting the day and the conversations and the community lead your interactions and how you move through even a meal. You know, it's like it's night stark difference. It's
dark, it's dark. And the downside of that is that busyness is often a cover for mediocrity. It's often again, we'll say that one more time. It's real. It's so real. Busyness is often a cover for mediocrity. And it is so seductive. And it is so compelling. Think about all the times. You know, I think for myself all the times I have assessed my might you know the impact by how hard I worked, or how busy my day was, like you have an impossible day scheduled. And you Judge your success by the fact that you survived the day as opposed to the impact you had as opposed to the resources you moved, as opposed Almost to the as opposed to the justice you facilitated, or the people you empower, and it is so easy to fall into that trap. And I would say that in the US in particular, and certainly in the nonprofit sector, you know, there is such a pressure to have this busy appearance that we sometimes lose track of what are the results, I'm actually committed to, you know, so all that to say, in terms of advice or guidance or practice, because, again, anything I'm advising I'm practicing, you know, I do think that we have to with every touchpoint, especially in our sector, it's such a precious opportunity, we have to be in the business of change, making opportunity unlocking, resource gathering is such a abundant space, we're in that we have to just make sure we don't take it for granted, we don't rush past it, that if we're talking to a constituent, if we're engaging with a potential donor, if we're, you know, working on our media narrative, and the storytelling, what you all do so brilliantly, we have to make sure we're not rushing past it. And that we're actually telling ourselves the truth about our impact. Well, how do you know your impact, you have to ask somebody you're trying to support, we can't possibly know our impact without listening to other people. So it all comes full circle, full circle, y'all, it all comes full circle, that the proximity work. And the power of proximity requires our listening, so that we can do better work, and also understand our impact well enough to actually make change and not simply be busy
to lane. I was two, three years old. When I am thinking, and going back in the recesses of my mind to the days I was a gift officer and thinking how I was literally rushing, listening. And yes, that is how we are wired. And I am here to say I am the first one at the front of the line saying I am guilty of this. And we need to unlearn this. I mean, our final trend of 2023 is that we need to normalize rest, because this busyness is distracting us from the joy of the job and the mission work and why we do these things. It is creating burnout, it is a drain on our mental health and our well being it is affecting our personal relationships outside of the office. And it's help it's slowing us down from the thing we want to do, which is chasing the impact. So that Yeah, at the front of the line to say, let's unwind this, and sit in the stillness, and pause and take a breath
and take a breath. And you know, I think the thing we have to be mindful of is we can't allow this movement for, you know, having more spacious engagement with our work to be co opted in a way where it gets, it gets confused as sort of a luxury endeavor. Right? This isn't about you know, like Martin Luther King, you know, talked about, you know, there was a time when I'm paraphrasing, it's blasphemous for me to paraphrase Martin Luther King, but here I go, forgive me ancestors. You know, he talked about that there were times where he would feel like he was too busy to pray. And what he learned is that he was too busy and had too much he was trying to do not to pray. And prayer was one modality of being still being still could also be meditation, you know, thinking about or reflecting on things you're grateful for, you know, there's all kinds of modalities for that stillness. But I do think it's really important, because not just because it feels better. But you know, we're trying to do something that is incredibly hard to do, we are seeking to imagine and build a new world that's more seeking to do. And so we need the very best of ourselves available. In order to do that. We need to be creative. We need to be resourced enough internally, to connect with people, including people with whom we disagree. We need to be able to heal divides, we need to be adaptive. And if we're living in fight and flight with elevated cortisol, cortisol with elevated cortisol, with, you know, stress as our guide. We're not going to bring the skills and resources and talent required to do the incredibly challenging work that we signed up for. So it's not only about feeling better, though that is a benefit. It is actually about the impact because I come back to my earlier comment. Oftentimes busyness is a cover for mediocrity. And it's been true in my own life. I've seen it, how am I possibly this exhausted, and almost nothing that matters happened today. It's really important that we tell ourselves the truth about the results we're having, which is why we've got to be listening to our partners, our colleagues and our constituents. The only way to know our impact is to be actively listening and being guided by what we hear. Do you feel
like Tulane just looked into it? Our souls feel that
Dr. Montgomery is she passed her Montgomery is she Oracle, Montgomery, it was like, that is exactly the mom hug that we all needed and a little kick in the pants in the right way.
And for somebody that's like on the edge of like you feel like because this is this is me. So I can say from my own experience, I feel like because I love this thing, I just gotta keep putting more and more and more and more. Yeah, but you're giving me the language to understand like to love that is actually to give it my best self, which requires me to draw a line and say, that's this. What a beautiful thing to kind of lead us into, you know, we celebrate philanthropy, and you get to be witness to a lot of philanthropy, a lot of big philanthropy, a lot of small moments of philanthropy, and just listening. And so I want to create space to just say, what's the story bigger, small along your journey that stuck with you?
Absolutely. In some ways, I'll admit that it is maybe easy for me, I won't say easy, easier for me to think this way. Because most of what I get to do and call work is be in the company of human beings who have decided to do their very best for humanity. Like, that's exactly what makes your
day job. Yeah, that's
my, that's my day job, right? To work with human beings who have decided to do the best they can figure out on behalf of humanity. So I know, no one can tell me different that most human beings, when they're at their best, you know, will give their best, which is why what we've been talking about matters so much. But I think I'll share, you know, in November of last year, November of what are we in now? 2020. The board tax? Yes, it took a moment for me to get there that we did a new profit hosted an event called the well. And we purposefully scheduled it one week after the midterm elections, because as you all know, in the United States, in 2022, there was a whole lot of collective do looping happening in the media and in our homes and in our offices, about what was going to happen at the midterm elections and how American democracy itself was at risk. And I do believe that American democracy is in need of our very best attention right now. I do believe that we can talk more about that. However, it was important for us to create a space where people of different lifestyles and ideologies and identities could come together for restoration, connection and sense making. So we hosted this event called the Welch and about 400 or so social entrepreneurs, impact leaders, philanthropists, media voices came together for what was about two and a half days of sensemaking, folks got a dose of their inspiration prescription, which I believe we need for this work, we all need to continually fill our inspiration prescription, they got some hard facts about where we are as a country and what's required. And they got to be in community for both support and accountability. And so one of the moments, so that whole well was a moment. And there's a lot I could share about it. But there was one particular moment that I want to share. And I want to do this gentleman justice. So Desmond Meade, who I'm sure you all have heard of, if you have it, I've got to encourage you and your listeners to really study and understand this brother, because he is somebody who is a living example of how much abundance and possibility there is despite the appearance of fragmentation. So Desmond Meade is the president and Ed of the Florida rights restoration coalition. And he joined us at the well in November, and he spoke about how voters and Florida came together in a very divisive political climate in 2018, to approve a constitutional amendment that would restore voting rights to people with felony convictions. So this was in Florida and 2018. Right. And so all the sort of analysis and diagnostics would say that what happened could never have happened. But it did. And Desmond was a major part of driving that. And so he said, I'm going to actually share a quote from Desmond Meade, because I think it's an important example of that story. He said, those 5.1 million votes were not based on hate or fear. They were based on love, forgiveness, and redemption. We were able to demonstrate to the state of Florida to this country to the world that love can, in fact, win the day. Those 5.1 million votes came from people registered as conservatives, independents, progressives, they were white, black Latinx people from all walks of life that came together in In the state of Florida, and that experience really drove home, how much more we accomplish when we look at love differently, it's easy to love someone who confers a benefit to us, the real test of love is being able to love someone that doesn't love you first. So I think there's something about when he shared that, I mean, when he right, the whole room was just like a floor on the floor. But it's also tied. It's not simply, you know, a direction or an inspiration. It's not a motivational quote, it's a reflection back on something that actually happened. And what was really happened, right, and what was to the untrained eye, and impossible circumstance. And so that story, the story of the work and the story of Desmond sharing his his interpretation, how he made meaning of that is something that gives me hope, and energy and inspiration. Because I, I operate with the belief that we can absolutely build what I tend to call what I knew profit, call a mic, multi, racial, intergenerational cross sector Coalition for change, we call that a mic for short. So we believe that people can step up to the mic. And when you look at history, and you look globally, when something that seemed impossible, was was facilitated, if you look at the ending of apartheid, if you look at the ending of Jim Crow legislation here in the US, if you look at the independence of African nations across the continent of Africa, it was always a multiracial intergenerational cross sector coalition that enabled that systemic change. What enables what seems impossible, is a coalition of people who look and live differently from each other. So I'm really passionate about and optimistic about the possibility of building that coalition that we need in this country for systems change.
I'm volunteering Yeah, in a way wind to join. I mean, I, I have to tell you can't hear that story and not feel moved in. And honestly, tonight, I'm gonna butcher my Martin Luther King quote, too, because it reminded me of my favorite quote, which is Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that. And we centered 2023 In I'm, I'm gonna, like forever copyright Doom looping, because I think that is the most brilliant way to talk about this negative narrative, you know, that awakens in a way that we don't want it to it awakens division awakens, derision, it, it awakes inequity. And what you're saying is, if we can ground what we do in love, there is nothing that we cannot accomplish. And I have to like, give John credit here, because when he was dreaming up, we're for good. I remember this time that we were looking at each other. And we're like, we don't feel like we have any competitors in this. Because the more people that believe in this ideology, the more people that show up and share, the bigger the movement is the the bigger the impact can be. And how to flip the script is only by embracing joy, embracing equity, and embracing the fact that we have been called to love and we want to deliver it to others, you are the the soothsayer of that. I feel like, maybe thank you for sharing that story that was powerfully moving.
No, I'm so happy to share it. And no, here's the thing. There are some folks who will hear that, and it will piss them off. And if you catch me on the right day, hearing me say that when I listen to the playback will piss me off too late. What are you talking about? Because injustice, and inequity is real. And there's a great deal of pain, grief and rage that we can't bypass, we can't do a spiritual bypass, right? We can't say, Oh, you haven't don't have enough love if you're actually still angry. So one of the things that I believe it's really important in the coalition work, that we're talking about building the mike, that multiracial intergenerational cross sector coalition, you have to allow space for grief, sadness and rage. You have to allow space for that you can not require participation in the coalition mean that you sort of, you know, numb yourself, right? Injustice is real inequity is real. I would even say in some cases, that evil is real. And so I do think that I don't want the message to be misconstrued as let's sort of do a spiritual bypass of pain, right? Love, you know, let's think about what love looks like in your life. People who love me, who have loved me beautifully and well. Sometimes they have to get me together. Right. Sometimes they tell me about myself. Sometimes they take something, sometimes, you know, in particular, when I was younger, they would take something away from me in order for me to understand the consequences of my choices, you know. So love is not only about the parts that feel delicious love is also about accountability, and truth telling, and responsibility. Love is about taking responsibility for how we treat people and the impact that we have. And that's also part of love. So I want to say that too, so that when we talk about love and hope, we don't sort of use this surface definition of either of those very important values. I want to actually share this quote about how I think about hope. And it's from someone on Twitter, bless your heart, he goes by crows fault. Attribution matters. I don't know who you are, certainly, I don't know who you are. crossbar, we appreciate you. But he says, and this is so real, this is important. He says, People speak of hope, as if it is this delicate, ephemeral thing made of whispers and spider's webs. It's not hope, has dirt on her face, blood on her knuckles, the grip of the cobblestones in her hair, and just spat out a tooth as she rises for another go. So that's the gritty hope that I'm talking about, you know,
and that's real. Yeah, the
nails on my arm I can't put down wow, I mean, to Elaine, there's so much here that, you know, required listening for the start of this year. You know, I think it's hard
work and head work, too, as well. So I mean, you came for the proximate leadership, you got the evolved living as a great human being and pouring into humanity. So to lane we have to end all of our conversations with a one good thing. And I wonder what yours would be that you would offer up to the community, maybe a quote, you've given us a lot of amazing quotes, maybe a mantra you live by Witchers.
So one good thing that might actually be helpful for your listeners is, you know, when I talk about the power of proximity, active listening, love is powerful. It can be hard to reconcile that with just how crazy things are. And so one of the frameworks that helps me carry the dissonance of believe and fight at the same time is something called the Stockdale paradox. And so, I think, you know, a lot of folks have heard about it, but basically, it's based on the words of Admiral William Stockdale, who was an admiral during the time of the Vietnam conflict. He and his men it was all men at that time, were captured and were prisoners of war in Vietnam in a prisoners camp that was notoriously violent and brutal, and where most did not survive. And Admiral Stockdale and his men, they most but not all of them actually made it home. And so you can imagine when the admiral returned home, there were there was a long line of people who wanted to understand like what enabled you to survive a condition that was not designed to be survived. And so you know, initially the person interviewing Admiral Stockdale, I think it was Jim Collins, who actually kept coined the term, you know, so Jim said, so Admiral, I'm guessing this the people who were really optimistic, those are the ones who made it right, the ones who just knew they were going to make it and just never doubted. And the admiral immediately said, no, no, the blind optimist didn't make it. As soon as they didn't make it home for their first Christmas, their hearts were broken. And they lost the ability to focus on what they would need to do to survive their circumstance. So that kind of threw the interviewer in. So he said, well, then who made it the folks who were sort of in despair or the pessimists and he said, Well, no, they didn't make it because they were so busy grieving and mourning, the awfulness of the condition they were in that they didn't put any energy into designing a way to survive. So the question then is, okay, well, then who made it? And the answer the admiral gave is what's known as the Stockdale paradox. The folks who survived a condition that seemed unsurvivable were the ones who were able to carry an unshakable faith that they would make it home, along with an unblinking eye facing the reality of their circumstances situation. And it was the two together that unshakeable faith and that unblinking eye combined that allowed them to move through something that was horrible and unimaginable. And I believe that that combination is actually what we need to make it through these tough times. We need to have unshakable faith and the power of love and the power of coalition's and the ability to build partnerships across identity. And we also need to have an unblinking eye that looks without denial at the context and circumstances and pain that people are moving and living through. So I offer that as perhaps one good thing that might be useful for For your listeners, it's certainly useful for me
to Elaine, I want to give you my BFF bracelet and know you, and follow you and support you and cheer you on and amplify you, you are good for the soul, I mean, not just for business, you are good for the soul, thank you, thank you for the way you move in this world.
Thank you so much that means so that means so much to me, right? Because, you know, we got to be with our, our tribes, you know, and, you know, I saw this sermon where this young pastor and I don't actually know his name, he had his the whole theme was, is your weak, weak. And the whole premise of it was that you got to have people around you who are strong and prepared to catch you, when you fall, you know, who with the lives they live, and the values they hold, can be ready for you when you're not able to stand up on your own. And so I do really believe as I said, at the top of our time together, that community is medicine. Community is protection community is inspiration, it's everything so to be in community, with the two of you and with the We Are For Good community is just such a gift to me, you know, it gives me energy and gives me inspiration and resource that I need. So thank you,
I love that that just flowed from you, you know, like, just the human you are it just I feel like wisdom and love flows through you. And I mean that in the depth that you've even explained it today. You know, I feel that deeply so you as a leader in this space is someone that we do champion and want to just give you the mic in our house whenever and as often as we can so tell other ways to lane people are going to want to find you and follow you and tell us how to connect with you and just kind of follow along with the new profit journey also,
let's see you on my website to learn montgomery.com You can find me on Instagram at act to lane em, or to lane underscore Montgomery. So if you just put into Lane Montgomery, you'll get my website or catch me on Instagram or Twitter also on at two lane M so either to lane Montgomery or to lane M we'll get you to me on any of the spheres.
Y'all are you not so glad to lay Montgomery is in this world. I'm sorry to throw my Oklahoma HC in there. But y'all I am so grateful that we had this conversation that we have this friend in our midst. I hope you dive into her thought leadership, there are ample videos podcast, where you can soak up this joy and this respect and dignity that were pouring into each other. And I just want to thank you to Elaine for coming in and going well beyond proximate leadership to just giving us the greatest gift of, of being able to look forward with with peace and with certainty and with accountability. And to feel like we are all in this massive journey together in the way we take it as such a responsibility. We can take that path, you know, of busyness, of divisiveness, of of, of just being burnout, or we can take a new way. And I'm just here to say thank you to Elaine for inspiring us that the new way is possible for every single one of us. And there's so much to be learned here. Thank you for making us all students in your beautiful classroom.
It was my gift I received at least as much as I gave so my pleasure.
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