Hello, everyone, thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the More Than You See podcast hosted by me, actor, filmmaker mental health advocate, Deborah Lee Smith. Every Monday, I come to you to share some resources, have a conversation, and generally just dive into all sorts of topics around mental health. I am not a licensed practitioner or therapist, but just a woman exploring my own mental health journey and sharing it with you, my listeners. My hope is that this podcast brings you some joy, some understanding, and some tools so that you can build your own mental health toolbox.
Welcome back, everyone. Thanks again, for tuning in. I want to start the episode first by saying thank you so much to my incredible editor, Jen, who has jumped on the project this season. It's so wonderful to have support in this way. And Jen, I know that I don't thank you enough. So I'm starting it off this week by saying thank you, Jen, you're amazing.
Okay, I especially need to give her a shout out this week. Because this week's episode is a bit of a doozy. I really wanted to have a conversation about postpartum and postpartum depression. But newsflash, I am not a mother, I have never had a child. I very much hope to have one one day. But that is not an experience that I have personally gone through. And yet, I didn't think that it was, you know, not something that I should address just because I hadn't had that experience. And so what I've done is I actually had three of my incredible friends share their experiences about postpartum and their experience being a mother and some of them a, you know, two times mother, and having them share how it made them feel, and whether they had previous depression and whether this exacerbated it, whether it made it better. Like, there's so many different nuances when it comes to postpartum just like there is in any other aspect of mental health. And they really address some incredible topics of conversation on this episode.
I want to give a very special shout out today to my three incredible friends who were willing to be vulnerable and share their experiences with me and the More Than You See community. Special shout out to Christy Holmes, who has been a friend of mine since college, Erin Stegeman who is an incredible writer, actor, filmmaker. Both of them have two adorable children. And Cecilia Tripp, who is a filmmaker and actor friend of mine here in Los Angeles, who has a new baby who she actually had during the pandemic. So that of course, added a whole new layer. Erin as well also had one of her second child during the pandemic. So I want to thank everyone again for you know, being part of this conversation and telling me that this was a topic that you wanted covered, because, again, this podcast is for you. I really hope that this conversation allows you to think a little bit more about your own experience with depression and being a parent, or maybe being a parent or not being a parent. Like, there's so many different things that we can learn from this. And I really hope that this episode touches you the way that it touched me.
If you first wouldn't mind introducing yourself, let me know how many kids that you have your family structure, for example, if you're married, etc.
Um, my name is Christy. I have two kids ages eight, a girl and four, a boy. I'm married with, to my college sweetheart and we've been together for over 20 years.
Hey, this is Erin. And I have two lovely little little ones. One is a girl Alma. She's 10 months old, and I have a two year old boy named Adolfo, and I am married to my husband who is named Ace.
My name is Cecilia Tripp. I am married and we have an eight month old daughter.
I would love to know what your experience was with your pregnancy and then postpartum.
I like to describe pregnancy as a means to an end. For me, I was so looking forward to being pregnant. And my first pregnancy had some complications that were not super serious, but serious enough for first time mom that it was disconcerting. And I didn't have this same situation with my second. But what I did have with both kids was just, I was really, really sick. With my daughter on top of the placenta previa, problems I had in the second trimester, I spent the first 18 weeks really sick, and I was losing a lot of weight instead of gaining. And that was actually pretty stressful because I didn't have a good doctor, I didn't like my OB at all. But I stuck with her because I was naive and didn't know better. And, you know, she, in a very indelicate way accused me of having an eating disorder. And not like eating enough. And the reality is, I have a thyroid disorder, and it's an autoimmune disorder. And when my body gets stressed out, it swings into hyperthyroid. And I was just losing weight. It's just my body does that when I'm when it's physically stressed.
I ended up making up for last time and my second half of my pregnancy, I had a very healthy weight and a very healthy baby. But it was a really stressful situation, and kind of made worse by a not great OB. And then for that one, I had a scheduled c section that all went really well. And then with my son, I had the best OB I loved love loved him. And my pregnancy was kind of uneventful except for being pretty sick again, the first few months, but my delivery was not good. It was over 50 hours, and ended in an unscheduled emergency c section. So kind of going through, laboring for that long, and then having the physical trauma of a surgery, my body was was pretty wrecked. And I had a really rough six weeks, immediately postpartum, trying to physically recover.
My pregnancies were both very wanted, and one was, my girl was a surprise. very much a surprise. My kids are a year and a half apart. And definitely didn't plan that. And I also wasn't, wasn't thinking I wanted to get pregnant again. Because I had a really, really rough pregnancy. I had hyperemesis and gestational diabetes, and just a very, very rough pregnancy. I was nauseous the entire nine months. I even vomited during labor a couple of times, and I ended up really struggling with a lot of food stuff, because everything repulsed me and, and everything made me nauseous and made me sick. And I really, really fell into kind of a black hole because I just - I just wasn't expecting that nobody in my family had that severe of a, of an issue with pregnancy. And everybody was saying, Oh, you know, after 12 weeks, the nausea goes away. And it never did. And there was a pattern of like, two or three weeks, or a period of two or three weeks, where I just was in a black hole, and I couldn't get off the couch. And I was so miserable. And I just remember thinking I just wanted this pain to end whether it was you know, however, the darkest thoughts you can have. I just didn't want to be pregnant anymore. I didn't want to feel like the nausea anymore. And it was rough. It was rough.
And I didn't know how to tell any of my friends either because they didn't have kids. And the ones that I knew did have kids didn't have, HG didn't have this experience that I had. So it was very lonely. And so I didn't know if I wanted to be pregnant again. As appetizing as that sounds. Also, then I was on I had gestational diabetes. So then I got put on an even more strict diet and I ended up hating food, like I just ended up not wanting to eat. And I lost weight during my pregnancy. And I've never not wanted to eat. I eat like constantly. So I had a little bit of some PTSD from the pregnancy itself. And so my postpartum for the first one was, was very up and down and very much in sync with, with sleep deprivation. So that really rough like four to eight month period of time that there's a lot of sleep regressions during that like, we did hit that with my son and it was very bumpy. I remember forgetting how to speak English a few times like just forgot words. My husband had the same experience. He, one point was talking to me. And he started saying my name, like he had, he said, Oh, I was talking to Erin. And I'm like, I'm Erin. And then he just like his eyes kind of lit up. And he's like, Oh my god, I thought I was talking to my mom, like his mom is in Texas. You go a little nuts with sleep deprivation.
Thankfully, with my second, the postpartum wasn't too rough. The pregnancy was still pretty rough with the nausea, although I did have some relief towards the end, and I definitely didn't vomit during delivery, but it was still rough. And then there was the pandemic. So that was its own level of like mental torture for me.
I found out I was pregnant December of 2019. And it was the best news I have ever received, ever. I have known literally since the day I can remember that I wanted to be a mom. And the fact that it was finally happening was just out of this world. But I remember writing in my journal, sometime in January, that I was so naive to think that my excitement would mask pregnancy symptoms, like the exhaustion and the morning sickness. And for the first two months of my pregnancy, I was really sick. I was throwing up all the time, I barely got out of bed. I you know, my husband would joke that if he came home from work and found me on the couch, that it was a good day that I had enough energy to make it out to the living room. He was excited.
So that was the first two months of my pregnancy. And then in March COVID hit and we immediately went into lockdown and quarantine. And my in person doctor's visits moved to telehealth. And yeah, so I wasn't going into the doctor anymore. But then in May, I got kidney stones and ended up in the ER at 25 weeks pregnant and was there overnight. And because of that they moved my they told me I could come back to in person visits, and then all my, my first visit back in person, I found out that I had been labeled a high risk pregnancy because when I was in the hospital with kidney stones, they realized that I had preeclampsia. And so now the plan moving forward was that I would then have to go in every week until I delivered and every week that I would go into the hospital, I would get blood drawn, I would do an ultrasound, and I would have a non stress test done on the baby, which is essentially where they put heart rate monitors over my stomach, and just kind of monitor the baby's heart rate for 20 to 30 minutes.
And throughout all of these, you know my husband wasn't allowed to go with me, he was at the very first appointment in January and then didn't wasn't able to go back to anything else except for my emergency room stays. Yeah, so then on top of the weekly visits, I also had to be monitoring my blood pressure both morning and night. And the one the one piece of advice that my doctor gave me was to keep myself calm, because the goal was to just make it to - was to keep my blood pressure low enough that I could make it to 37 weeks, and at the 37 weeks mark, they would induce me and I would deliver. Because if you have preeclampsia anything past 37 weeks then becomes life threatening to both mom and baby.
So I was doing that and then in June I got a migraine, which I was kind of used to because I got migraines before I was pregnant. I've had them my whole life, and I would have thought nothing of it. However, if you have preeclampsia, if you can't get a headache to go away or a headache progresses to a migraine and you can't get it to go away with your prescription medication or with Tylenol or whatever, you're supposed to go back in. So I had to go back into the ER and was admitted again and stayed overnight because while they were monitoring the baby, the baby's heart rate dropped. And so I had to stay for them to monitor it - to monitor her overnight. Fortunately, we made it to 37 weeks. And I delivered with an emergency c section after 30 hours of labor. lol.
Yeah. So that was my pregnancy experience. My postpartum experience was significantly more difficult than I could have ever imagined. Yeah, I had pretty severe postpartum anxiety and depression. And then I just recently learned that I was also dealing with some with something that's called intrusive thoughts pretty aggressively, which is essentially kind of when you're just having really terrible thoughts about the baby dying. And you, you know, they're so hard to explain. But anyway, I was dealing with those as well. And then on top of COVID, still being prevalent and around, and with people still being in lockdown. Yeah, it was just much, it was postpartum was a much lonelier experience, then I could have ever imagined for myself.
On any day, external news media situations can cause extra stress and anxiety. Did you find that you were extra sensitive to these things during your pregnancy or postpartum?
So external news media situations did not actually cause me extra stress and anxiety, or extra sensitivity. I wasn't one of those like overly weepy or crying, pregnancy or postpartum moms. So didn't really have any postpartum depression. What I did have a ton of that nobody prepared me for was postpartum anxiety. You hear the term postpartum depression a lot. Healthcare providers are really good about screening for that and asked me questions about depression. Nobody asked me about anxiety. And when I look at my mental health journey since I was... I mean, I started having anxiety when I was nine. And I had terrible anxiety throughout my teenage years and my 20s. When I got pregnant when I was 30, it should have been no surprise to me that having that major chemical shift in my brain during pregnancy and into postpartum would cause my anxiety to ramp up. And but I just had never, it never occurred to me, which is really funny.
I was a wreck was - my first - I was a wreck about the fact that I couldn't exclusively breastfeed. I was living in Berkeley, California, which is kind of like a liberal haven. And it really really was breast is best attitude and like, formula is poison. And in order to get formula in the hospital, it's under lock and key in the hospital, like they have to get doctor's orders to give it to babies. I went to an - I had extremely low milk supply with both my kids. And the first time I felt like a failure. And it caused a lot of anxiety. I was literally losing a lot of sleep trying to pump and get my supply up after breastfeeding in the middle of the night, like four times a night. All day, I put a lot of time and energy into trying to get my supply up so that I could exclusively breastfeed and I never was able to.
Now, by the time I had my son four years later, my sister had had my twin sister had her two kids in between my two kids, and she had the exact same milk supply issues to the milliliter of the number of ounces or ounces of formula that we were producing. So by the time my son came around, I was like, Okay, this is an anatomical issue and I'm not going to change it so I embraced, you know, the situation for what it was and I had a lot less anxiety about that. Regarding anxiety, the other situation I had a lot of anxiety with that nobody prepared me for was when I weaned both of my kids, my anxiety due to that hormone shift ramped way up and that totally sideswiped me. Luckily I was like, kind of more aware by you know, a year in to having my baby that, Oh, this is a hormone shift, and I was able to kind of ride it out. But I think it's really helpful for people to know.
And then in general, just having children, you know, the burden you carry worrying for your child. You know, especially as you know, caregivers moms are like, a lot of times natural caregivers. And I definitely worry a lot about my kids health and safety, happiness, you're always trying to do the best that you can, create the best environment, make the best decisions. And it takes a long time before you realize like, sometimes your best isn't good enough. And it's just, it's just life and your kids will be great if you love them, and you try your hardest. But you know, trying to be perfect and avoid having any, any bad decisions. It's a really, really heavy burden. And, of course, you know, situations like the pandemic exacerbated anxiety about, you know, my anxiety about my children's health.
Yes, absolutely. The pandemic happened when I was six months pregnant, I believe, and oh, my God, every day I was reading...am I going to be able to have my husband in the room when I deliver and I was freaking terrified. I mean, I was like, one of those people that was like social justice, like, women need to have a partner in the room. And this is so unfair and blah blah blah. Yeah, I was, and then obviously terrified of COVID terrified of getting it, terrified of my baby getting it my family getting it. And the care was night and day different between my son and my daughter, just because of the situation, you know, I just I didn't get as many scans, I didn't get as many sonograms and what not and ultrasounds. And my husband had to not - had to- couldn't go with me. So I had to do it a lot on my own.
I can't imagine that being my first pregnancy. I think I would have been - I don't think I could have handled it. On top of how traumatic my first pregnancy was to also add a pandemic on top, I really don't think I would have survived that. I had so much anxiety, my first pregnancy. Yeah, just just a ton of it. And I had to put like the news down, for sure. I still do. And with my first pregnancy, I think part of my like, anxiety mechanism to heal that to have some semblance of control, because it's this pregnancy is so just, you have so little control over it. And it's, it's just so brand new, and your body is just changing. And it's primal. And the world, you know, just immediately isolates - immediately isolated me. I felt, in a way, it connected me in a way to many women and to many pregnant people and moms and parents. But then it also isolated me immediately from my non-pregnant folks and people at work who didn't quite get it. And then all that. Yeah.
So with my first I just wanted to know everything I wanted to, to know, every product to have every product and not have what what can I expect? What does every single thing mean? I'm the daughter of a doctor. So I needed to know, like, every single situation, am I going to be okay? And I had one doctor that constantly was like, just avoid Google. You told me to Google. So I'm glad - and I'm glad I did Google. But um, but I don't recommend it. So that's terrible advice. But yeah, I my second pregnancy, I was way more chill, like, just way more like, Okay. I know, it's gonna be okay. I know, no matter what, like, it's probably going to be okay. And like I said, there was a pandemic to worry about instead.
So I found out about my preeclampsia, right in the midst of the Black Lives Matter protests that were happening. And so COVID was on the news, protests from the news, people dying on the news, and the only thing my doctor told me to do to keep myself and my baby safe was, stay calm. And I just, I remember when she told me that we locked eyes in her office, and she just, you know, like, tilted her head and was just kind of like, I realized this would be much easier if the world just wasn't on fire right now. So, yes, I was on doctor's orders to avoid media and news. And I had to tell my friends and my family not to send me updates unless it felt like it was extremely important information for me to know. And my husband was, I guess, kind of filtering in a way things that he saw that were going viral and telling me to avoid, and different things like that. So...
Did you have previous experience with anxiety, depression, or other mental health difficulties? Did it get worse after having children, better? How did it change?
So, um, I will share that I did struggle in college with both anxiety and depression, and I ended up actually leaving college to to get some help, and came back. I've been in therapy, I'm a part of 12 step programs, Alanon in particular has been extremely helpful in my life. And so I am regularly a part of, of 12 step and mental health groups and whatnot. And for the past, like 15 years, I've been pretty good. Now, having the kids the, the whole, the, when I was pregnant with both of them, because of the HG, I hit a low that I hadn't had since college, and I remember telling my husband that like, I have not felt this way, since like, my bottom, which was my freshman year of college. And so that, that scared me a little bit.
I did talk about that with my, with my doctor. And you know, after a certain period, it lifted, so it didn't, it didn't stay around, and it was very much tied to like what was going on food wise. The other thing I didn't mention that I had was pica, which is where you crave food that - or objects that aren't edible. Which I totally think is a function of anxiety because they tested me for the nutrients and I was fine. Yeah, I had a lot of just sort of medical complications and that really just like shook me to my core with my anxiety. So I think I experienced a bit more of like postpartum anxiety, then postpartum depression.
If you're comfortable sharing, are you on any medication for mental health difficulties or disorders?
I am I am on anti anxiety medication. I started it actually during the pandemic. So it wasn't really tied to pregnancy or postpartum. But it makes a big difference.
Am I on any medication? No, I'm not. But I will talk about this. So the one the couple things that I've done that have been pivotal to my mental health, and balancing and having a much better postpartum experience the second time around. One, has been what's called "hypoxic breathing meditations". And somebody, if you look up like Wim Hof, he's sort of one of the founders of it. That's where you, it's a certain way of meditating with breath. And it's supposed to just really oxygenate your body. And so I do that almost every day. And I also do cold showers and cold plunges. And those two things. I mean, immediately, I noticed a huge difference in my anxiety and my mental health. Like it was, yeah, I mean, for those of you that may have dealt with depression, it is like coming out of that fog. Like I can't, I just felt really good. And I continue to feel really good doing those things. So those are the two, the two things that I do to really kind of keep like my hormones and balance my mental health and balance.
Were you given any advice from your doctor or doula about how to handle postpartum? Or if you know, there was someone else that gave you some some advice that really helped you through the whole process?
So, you know, they gave me ideas on what to look for, for postpartum depression. You know, advice from your doctor. It's all very medical, like all this stuff that- I didn't have a doula first of all. The doctor - is all pretty medical. It's pretty basic, you know? DOs and don'ts on how to keep your kid alive. The whole like, how to actually raise human beings thing, is totally up to you. At least that was my experience.
You know, this is something that I wish I'm conflicted. I felt like my doctor. You know, they had me fill out like questionnaires before and after about how I'm feeling. And they did ask me, there was no like prep, like, you may experience this. I struggle because I'm the type that if my doctor tells me something, it's kind of in one ear out the other. Like, it's kind of if my, if my doctor were to tell me stuff about mental health, I don't think I would take it as seriously as a fellow mom, telling me about their struggles. It just, it's more real. And maybe that's because I have such a 12 step background like, I just tend to like to hear it from the person that's experiencing it. It's just more real, I take it a little bit more seriously. So I don't know if coming from medical professional, I would have felt that comfort.
That said, I do think there does need to be more care in this area. Because, man, I had some I mean, I'll just share, like I had to have, I had to have scar tissue like soldered off of me postpartum. I didn't know like, why I was having pain until somebody from this "mommy and me" yoga class had mentioned that she was doing this. And I thought, oh, maybe that's my issue. And so I called my doctor and said, like, here's what's happening. And she's like, yeah, let's just do this.
So, you know, like, I really recommend getting into like these postpartum, you know, yoga classes or whatever, "baby and me", "mommy and me". You know like, there - that's really where the support is. And I wish - you find out so many resources in these classes. The thing that I wish now that I'm talking out loud... thing that I wish my OB had had said, is - or that I wish it was a general - is that, physical therapy. I just, I firmly believe every female, you know, every person who gives birth should be directed to physical therapy immediately after. Because it's your body just - it's different. It changes. And with the way women and people give birth now. I'm also a former trainer and a former rehab trainer. So I'm kind of speaking from that point of view, like, it really does change the body. Like I had knee issues. I had, I had sciatic issues, you know, and I know what I'm doing when I'm training. So it's, it really does change. And people think, oh, if I just do a bunch of kegels, I'm gonna strengthen my pelvic floor, and that's not true. It's like, sometimes you really need to relax at first. There are a lot of wicked changes that happen post birth. And I think that just having physical therapy, or just being guided to those resources immediately, as the norm would be very beneficial.
And also like, that goes with nutrition, too. I - you know, there's all these, like, there's so much pressure for women to just bounce back. There's also like, this idea that now's the time to eat salads and stuff. That's not - I mean, you - there's a great book called "The First 40 Days" that I highly recommend for postpartum. Many, many, many ancient cultures, like, what they do is they take the person who's given birth in, and the family sort of the, the elders of the other moms, sort of just help. And they make stews, and they make bone broth, and they make all of these very nutrient dense meals for the person that's just given birth. And it just makes sense. You know, and there's all this talk about, you know, things like organ meat. And I mentioned bone broth, you know, just kidneys. There are things that that sounds probably really gross to anybody listening to this, but there's a, like, they are so full of the nutrients that you need postpartum. And, and there's reasons around that. And warm foods, why warm versus cold and that raw vegetables and cold foods can really you know, your digestive system is so delicate after giving birth that warm, warm foods really does help and does help heal. And I can speak for from experience. I did some things, I did the first 40 day program. It's not really a program. I hate that it sounds like a diet. It's just kind of a gentle guide. I did that after my daughter was born and I just, I had such a better postpartum experience and my didn't have the digestive issues that I had after my son.
I was not. Oh, God, I get so emotional. I'm so sorry. I was not given any advice, because any time, because anytime I would ask for it, they didn't have an answer. Because of COVID. And everything that we were being told to do to protect ourselves from that. So it was like everybody, you know, was going in blind. I feel like the advice that I would look up, or try to research on my own, was just a polar opposite to what we were being told to do, because of the current situation, you know? Like to have a support system and have people in and out of your house to hold the baby, so you can take a shower, and, and all those different kinds of things just weren't allowed. And it felt like, I mean, we have a really good group of friends. But because we were the first in our friend group to have a kid, and because we were having a kid in the current climate, it felt as if we were held under a microscope in every decision that we were making was being watched. And it felt like, if for any reason, we made a quote, unquote, "wrong decision". We would have, you know, major backlash from people in our lives just about decisions that we were making.
In December, I'd reached a breaking point. And I just remember looking at my husband, and I was just screaming at him, "I'm broken, I'm broken". And it was because I could not wrap my head around the fact that I had this four month old baby that my family did not know. I struggled with the decision to go home for the holidays, so they, I could be with them, and they could meet her. And I felt like, I felt like I needed a reason to do that. And the truth is, I didn't need a reason I, if I wanted to be with my family. That should have been enough. But you know, as soon as people started finding out that we had decided to travel and go home, everybody was giving their own opinions on why that was, you know, a wrong choice or an unsafe choice or whatever.
And so I think dealing with all of the normal postpartum stuff on top of everything else that you're being told to do, was hard. That veered way off of "were you given any advice", but that stems from the fact that you know, usual advice would be spend time with your family have people helping with the baby, you're gonna need to sleep, you're gonna want to shower. And we had, we were fortunate enough to have my mom and then have his parents out here. But as soon as they were gone after, you know, the first three weeks, whatever, that was, that support was gone. And it was just lonely. So...
Do you have any tools or advice for moms about how to manage their mental health in general? It doesn't have to be postpartum. It could really be just any sort of difficulties that come from having children.
This so cliche, but it bears reminding that you have to prioritize yourself. And it doesn't, you know, it's really hard to be number one, and you'll probably at times, not being number one or most of the time not being number one, but you have to prioritize yourself. Because your kid's happiness has a lot more to do with your happiness and your stress levels, in both parents - moms included - than it does with making sure that you know, a specific lunch is made or a specific situation occurs. You know, staying up late or running yourself ragged, to create situations that are perfect. If you do that often enough, you create this environment, and they really just want your attention.
We had, you know, and you also, it's really hard to remember to go back and think like a kid because we don't think like a kid. So we're used to kind of pomp and circumstance for certain things. And at the end of the day, like the simplest things are so fun for them. And like, my daughter is constantly saying to me, she's the eight year old, what can we do? Can we do something fun, let's do something fun. And so I always kind of put it back on her like, well, what would you like to do? And it's like, painting or nails. Or let's go lay in the hammock together. I mean, so if you listen to a Mom, to like, fill in the blank for let's go do something fun, we might be tempted to like, what does fun mean, it was like this grand orchestration. And in reality, it's just attention. They just really want your attention. And it's really hard when you're working, especially - I work full time. So I feel like really like a tug of war between my husband and my kids and myself. But, you know, give people attention and give yourself attention to because if I don't work out, or if I'm not eating healthy, if I'm not getting some decompression time, I'm not the best mom that I can be.
Also, that kind of goes for working. A lot of moms feel really guilty for working, but I recognize that I'm a better mom, because I'm feeding that part of my brain and, you know, making career decisions and feeling like, an important contributor to our family makes me happier, which makes me a better mom.
I do think, you know, it's, it's just saying like, I'm struggling. I'm struggling, and I need this. I need more of such and such and more of this. I mean, it's it's just society is like, even the the most well intentioned family structures and, and partnerships, like it's still set up that it's okay for the guy to just go back to work. And I will say guy, but the the non birth parent to go back. And the person who gave birth, because of nursing or just the nature of giving birth, like it there is this, like, I need to be the one here to watch the child and take care of the child and I want that. And, I want to get back to my creative job, and I miss my friends, and I miss being active and I miss all of these things. So I think it's just it's okay to say like, I'm struggling and I need to prioritize the things I need to feel good again. Like even even tonight, you know, I'm 10 months postpartum on my second and my husband and I were talking about our work schedules. And I had to say, like, I need these, these three hours, just to do this, you know. Just to do some creative work and whatnot, because I do, I need it.
Did your husband or partner experience postpartum? Basically did it affect their mental health and did that then therefore affect yours? And this could also be whether or not they experience mental health difficulties on the regular, and how that increased or decreased after having children.
So this is this is really interesting. One of the things, so my husband is really great with kids, especially older kids. And I was really surprised when he really struggled with connecting with our babies, especially the first one. I just kind of thought she would pop out and he would just be instantly bonded to her. But I forgot that he didn't carry her in his body. And it was all of a sudden just the baby without - it doesn't talk - it doesn't, you know, interact too much with you. Especially a father. So he felt like with both of our kids, he didn't form really good connections with them till they were about six months old, and they were like smiling and giggling and making that eye contact and really like having little personalities emerge. So at first I was pretty shocked and kind of disappointed. And then, you know we talked about it and he was transparent about it, and then it really made sense and it wasn't hurtful or anything. But I just wasn't expecting that, and I don't think, and I have since heard that a lot of guys have that problem. And I don't think that people tell couples that or even give men that space to feel like that's okay. Because he felt guilty about that.
You don't I can't speak directly for my husband on this. I, I don't know if he's had anything we haven't you know, he hasn't expressed anything. I do know that it certainly affected him and our relationship. And oh my God, what a difference between having just one kid and having two kids. That was something for us as a couple to really address. Because if you do go from like, people with a kid, to parents, when you have more than one. And it's so easy, again, because of just the nature of our society and the nature of giving birth, like it's so - for me, it was so easy to feel that resentment around like, well, you know, I guess I'm giving up this now, because I've got a nurse for this long. And that really was pretty potent, like that first month, but lots of communication was helpful. And then you know, communication from my husband to echo what I've noticed is he does have a tendency to, you know, he'll take on extra work shifts. Or he'll skip, you know, his own self care stuff, like the, like stuff he loves, like, like boxing classes or, you know, various things. And he'll just kind of do that to take care of the family. And I don't, you know, sometimes it's we have to check in with each other because it's not always expressed. Like, oh, you know, I need this because - I think he's trying to, to help me out. And so he doesn't want to complain. And there's, you know, I think, I think a lot of guys can be like that. And so it's, it's just about constantly checking in, constantly. And being really honest. You should definitely have a kid with somebody you can communicate with.
My husband went above and beyond. For me, and for our family. The day or the night that Skyler was born, he ended up in the ER and in surgery the next day for kidney stones of his own. And so on top of me recovering from surgery, he was also recovering from surgery. And he still got up every night, with me to help with the baby, he still helped me get in and out of the shower, he still cooked dinner, he still cleaned all this stuff. And because I was so depressed and so anxious, he did everything he could to try and make me feel better, because he was the only one there. And I think now - I don't think he experienced any postpartum right away. But I think now that I'm getting healthier, and I'm feeling stronger, he's feeling the weight of it all - kind of lift that I think right now, he's experiencing some of that. Which which makes me feel guilty. And it shouldn't. But it does.
And it's part of the reason I came down to the car to record these because I think, it's really hard for him to really understand how hard it is for me. Because there was only so much that he could do, and because he feels so bad about how my experience was that now I feel like I, I don't really like breaking it up around him because I don't like adding more to his plate, because I know now he needs time to process his own experience with everything he needs time to process. The fact that he wasn't there for the doctor's appointments, and that he wasn't there the first night of his daughter's life, and that you know, there's all these things that he missed out on. In well, I spent months and months and months having him take care of me because I was processing that, I think now I it's flipped and I have to give him the support he needs for, for himself to process.
Did you find that you had to adopt a mask as a mom figure? And what does that mean to you?
I don't wear a mask. I mean, they there are those videos that show like the different "Which mom or you A, B, or C?". And, you know, there's parts of each that I can identify with. And I think my people are the people who kind of take you as you are and don't like, make you fit into a specific block, and I in general, don't really I'm not I don't really feel like they need to conform. So I just I just do me.
Yeah. Yeah, I will say as somebody that's in the entertainment industry. Yeah. It's almost like, you have to be fully "mom". It's a weird thing. As an actor, and somebody on social media, it's like a weird I'm in this weird place because I used to do all of these like, parody, you know, comedy videos. And now I have like this humor as, as a parent as a mom. And it's like, do I fully lean into that? You know, I don't want to suddenly like just be the mom figure. But then I'm like pissed. Like, no, I want to represent like, a mom and it's more than like, you know, just something someone dowdy, because it's fucking not dowdy. It's like the most powerful awesome thing in the world. And it's like once you're on the other side of it. It's like so fucking badass that I get so pissed that, that we're just made to feel like we've got to go back to who we were before, because that's not nature like nature evolves. Like nature evolves forward so it involves to be better and improve, so like this idea that like once we've had birth like we have to go backwards is so fucking patriarchal and awful. And I hate, I hate that other women are supporting each other in this like, man like, your body is perfect now like it was perfect then it's perfect now. Like it just - and you, I think people feel that once they give birth like just - you just did like the most awesome most spiritual thing on the planet. I just, I I hate that "mom" is associated with "dowdy", because it's anything but it's so sexy. It's so powerful.
Okay, now let's end on a happy note. What is your absolute favorite thing about being a mother?
I'm going for the cliche answer again. But it's also the honest, most truthful answer - is when you have kids, you fall in love again. And it's like, the best feeling because you know, when you fall in love with your partner, it's like, all consuming and then it kind of mellows out after a while and then you kind of get into your life partner things where you annoy each other, or whatnot. And it's not this like, super endorphin fueled love. But with kids, you it's just like you, you would really beat somebody up and do anything to see them smile and to make them happy. And they're just so dang cute. And they just really bring me so much joy. And I love reliving things through them, whether it's like Disneyland, like something grand like Disneyland or just even like really, really cool plants or like the ant that's crawling on the floor. They're just like, so perceptive and adorable. And I mean, not all the time. But they're, they're amazing. They're amazing little humans that you just love so much and you know that you're going to love them so much, but I don't know if you can never prepare yourself for the actual feeling until you're in it. And that was just such a wonderful surprise.
I really love being a mother. I really do. I i've never - I truly feel like I found myself becoming a mom. It's like having the best life coach on the planet, like everything, everything I do, I'm my hyper focus now. Like I know I have 20 minutes to do this. So I do it. I do it so focused. I know I have, you know, 10 minutes to workout. Alright, so I'm gonna lift some fucking heavy weights, get this done. But I think the best thing is, like, just how capable - how capable I am of loving somebody else. Like it's just, there's something like, and knowing that somebody feels that for me, like that my mother feel sad towards me. It's you - just you're, it's like an awakening to this level of love that just never understood before. And, and it's selfless because you know that like, you're setting them to go off and, and be away from you one day and so it's just like, just incredibly pure selfless love and it's, it's like the closest thing to you know, some sort of spiritual wisdom I think that can exist. And then again just, now understanding like how much my mom must have done for from my sister and I, like it's made me feel so much more appreciative and closer to her.
For me and my personal journey because there's a lot of journeys to get to motherhood and mine is only one experience. I will say that my favorite part about my experience and how I became a mother - it was the first time in my life that I felt that I was the facilitator of a miracle, that I feel as if I have reached my vocation. And I have reached my purpose. And that is the most beautiful thing. And my favorite thing about being a mom when I look at my daughter, I am amazed that she is mine. And that I was chosen to be her Mom.
Again, thank you for being here with me and Christy and Aaron and Cecilia today. It's it's so fascinating because being a mother has always been something that has been something that I have dreamed of and something that I want. And I am always looking for insights into what it's like to be a mom, and this this episode really brought that to a new level for me. So thank you ladies for sharing your experience.
I hope that you join me next week for a conversation with myself where I will be you know, deconstructing this episode a little bit more. As I've said in the previous episode, I am asking you for your feedback as far as what you want out of the podcast. I have a quiz right now up on More Than You See, morethan-yousee.com/quiz. That's the More Than You See website slash quiz. The episode link will be in the show notes. And if you want to go there and let me know your feedback about the podcast, the season, what you want, what you don't want. This podcast is for you. So I would love to get your you know truthful feedback.
Everyone, we've made it through another week, and we are entering the summer. There's a lot of exciting things and promise and happiness right now with families reuniting, with the summer coming in the US and a lot of different things happening. But I just want to remind you that no matter how you're feeling, your feelings are valid. It's important to be kind to yourself this week and every other week. And remember that you and everyone around you is More Than You See. Thank you so much for listening. I will see you next week.
