Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of The More Than You See podcast hosted by me, actor, filmmaker mental health advocate Deborah Lee Smith. Every Monday I come to you to share some resources, have a conversation, and generally just dive into all sorts of topics around mental health. I am not a licensed practitioner or therapist, but just a woman exploring my own mental health journey and sharing it with you, my listeners. My hope is that this podcast brings you some joy, some understanding and some tools so that you can build your own mental health toolbox.
Hello, everyone, welcome back. I could not be more excited for this incredible episode this week. This week we have Sara Tomko on the podcast. She is a very, very dear friend of mine. She is actually someone as you'll hear on the podcast episode that I met when I was in a really difficult mental health time myself. She was an incredible light and spirit for me. And I don't know honestly what I would have done without some of her guidance, like she truly was a leader for me in my mental health journey. And I mean, we dive into that we dive into so many incredible things. She is a well, let me read her bio really quick. I'll read her bio and then and then I'll just talk about her a little bit more.
So Sarah's bio is Sara Tomko is an entertainment artist and mental health advocate living in Los Angeles. She has been acting in film and television since 2007. Her roles include Guest Stars on "Once Upon A Time", "Sneaky Pete" and "The Leftovers". Her most recent success is playing the Series Regular Role of Asta in "Resident Alien on SyFy. You can find her on Instagram at SaraTomko19 and twitter at ActressSaraTomko to keep up with her work. And both of those will be in her, in our notes today. Sorry, I'm I am just so genuinely excited to have Sara on the podcast today.
You know so so why don't we dive into we dive into you know, of course her incredible experience and journey as an actor. But we also really dive into the spiritual aspects of following your dreams and what it's like to just know that you're destined for something but you're facing so many challenges like how do you stay true to yourself? We talk a lot about you know, staying true to yourself, grounding yourself, knowing yourself and and how important that is in a creative career. But really in any career. I just, yeah, I just can't say enough wonderful things about her. And I really hope that you enjoy this episode as much as I did recording it. Without further ado, Sara Tomko.
Hi, Sara. Thank you so much for being here, I'm so excited to have you. First of all can I say for everyone listening, Sara here was one of the most important people and presences in getting through my own shit with mental health. And so it was really important for me to bring you on, because I think that your vulnerability and openness with me made me feel so much better about myself and the place that I was in, in my life and the world. And so I just want to publicly thank you. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.
Oh man. Me too. Thank you That was unexpected and so lovely. Yeah, I I'm so glad that Abby introduced us and that we we started our love affair in Moon ceremony but ultimately that we had some nice one on ones, and that I had gone through a couple of similar things. But I think is always really nice when you can talk to somebody who's been there, done that. So I'm glad that we could, it made me feel, you know, really good to be able to say like, Hey, I'm on the other side. And I promise you'll get to this point, you know, so I'm glad that I could do that.
Yeah, absolutely. And you certainly have and to give everyone a little bit of context and to explain all the things, Sara, do you want to just give us a you know, very quick little background as far as like who you are, what you do, you're also in Los Angeles, you're an actor. Tell us tell us about the exciting things.
Ah, hello, everyone. I'm Sara Tomko. And I am actor, singer, artist. I don't know... charcoal painter, earring maker, tarot reader, Moon ceremony leader, thrift store seeker, I am an artist, you know, I'm a creative and I moved to LA in 2007. And I've always been an artist at heart, but I really pursued it as my career starting in 2007, when I moved to LA, and I've had a very, like, a wonderful but challenging, uphill climb to get to where I'm at. So I'm very proud of myself and the hard work that I put in. But also, you know, mental health was a huge part of my journey, on the way up, and I'm still traversing that, you know. I'm still finding ways to be a good friend to myself and to self reflect as as much as possible. And I think, especially when you're in a place like LA, you have to be careful of the LA trap and not getting sucked into too many, you know, people and things that would rather dangle a carrot in front of you and say, This is the way and finding your own way, you know, instead of necessarily going the route of the crowd. I am a big fan of going your own way. The road less traveled right, whatever that beautiful poem is, I can't recite it here for you. But you know, that has truly made all the difference. So I'm, that's me. I hope, I I hope I gave myself a good plug.
That was perfect. That was perfect. I have so many questions for you. I mean, primarily, because I mean, number one, you have, you've been here since 2007. If, if you look Sara up, you'll see that she recently starred in the SyFy series Resident Alien, I was gonna say the perfect alien. And I was like, that's not what you know...
I mean, thank you, we'll take it.
...Resident Alien, which is fantastic. It's like one of those shows, it's so funny, because like, being in Los Angeles, you have your friends that are in shows. And it's like, I have to watch the show, cuz my friends in it. And it was one of those things where myself and a couple other people who also know you, we like watch the first couple episodes, and we're like, this is actually good. Like it's so wonderful when a show is like you, you know,
Great. That's hilarious stuff. Because that is like the consensus, like across the board with friends and family. And it's not to say that they, that any single person was like, I was worried you'd be in a piece of shit. But it was more like, you know, you would you do need to show up and support and not everything can land and be that thing that makes it big. And we were very fortunate to, to come together as a cast and crew and make a story that was really meaningful to us. And it just so happens it's in the sci-fi world, which I think is really relatable for people who especially are in small towns and who are used to just kind of having normal kind of friend and family dramas, the sci-fi part is just kind of like the sprinkling of magic throughout the show. But it really has to deal with - honestly, it has to deal with mental health, it has to deal with trust, and also kindness and compassion for people that don't look or act or think like us. So I think all of those things together put together this great recipe for something we really need right now on television. So I think, yes, it's a great story. And yes, it's, it's really fun. And I've had a lot of friends like I would watch it even if you weren't in it, which is great. But I also think it was really timely to.
Right. Absolutely, that's such a compliment. So, you know, okay, so again, so obviously 2007 through two till you know 2020 even though I know that the the show took a very long time to come to life. And you know, there's a whole story around that, which Sara has told eloquently on so many other podcasts, definitely look up Sara and then like listen to her on everywhere, but, um... I kind of want to dive into the fact that obviously, so there's a 13 year journey there with you being in LA. How did you come to figure out how to find your own voice as well as to you know, maintain your individuality, as well as how to you know, just like keep your soul in the vulnerable place that we need to be as actors - but also not lose yourself mentally. Because that is I mean, and sometimes we do but also how do we pull ourselves out of those dark places? I think there's so many ups and downs and you've really learned how to navigate everything so beautifully.
Wow, thank you. Yeah, I'd say as far as the career's concerned, my mental health journey began way before I even realized that's what I was pursuing was mental health. You know, I didn't have a name for it, I just knew that there was a couple of voices inside. Maybe others hearing me say that would be like, Ooh, that's interesting. Maybe you should get some therapy. But um, I think everybody can admit that we have, you know, different voices inside of us, whether it's, you know, society, teachers, parents, loved ones, you hear different voices constantly kind of telling you what to do. And it's really hard to figure out what your own voice is.
So when I first moved out to LA in 2007, I think I was, I don't know, 23, which is a really perfect time to be like sprouting out into the world and figuring out my own voice. But it's crowded and clouded with a lot of other voices that you've heard growing up. And it's the first time I think, especially out of college, for a lot of people that you're starting to find your own way, make your own money, you know, make your own mistakes. And I made plenty of those. But I think as far as the career is concerned, the first thing I really learned was how much everyone wanted to put me into a box. You know, casting really loved what I had to offer, but they wanted to like, they wanted to tell me who I was. And I was really quick to be like, "yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. Sure. Yeah, I'll be that, I'll be that". Because you want to be, you know, agreeable, and you want to be moldable. And you don't want to say no, but pretty soon you realize how exhausting that is. And I'd say three years into my career, I was already so tired. And at that point, I knew other people who had only been in the career three years, and they were like, ready to quit and go home. It's really easy to get tired here very quickly, because you're, you're just on the go. It's a real grind. It's like you start with maybe background acting, and then you try to move up to costar, or maybe I wasn't even doing TV, I was doing film, like, but with indie film, versus I don't know Sundance Film, which I haven't even done yet still a goal of mine. Like, you just find that you go out for anything and everything. And you just hope that you can build up your resume, and somebody somewhere will accept you. And while that's great, and it's good to have that work ethic, I think that leaves room for you to be too moldable and too easily manipulated by others around you.
So I think about three years in I remember turning to my now ex husband, but he was my boyfriend at the time. And I I just said like, I don't want to do this like this anymore. And he was actually had done some, he had had some experience with business, the business side of things. And so he designed a website for me and said, you know, think about yourself as a brand. Like, what is your brand and of course, I hated that concept. Because I was like, I'm not a brand. I'm a person, you know. But you have to realize that when you are putting a headshot and resume in front of people, you're a brand, they're looking for something very specific. And I kept saying, Yeah, I'll be back. But if I'm not actually showing them who I really am, then they're missing out and I'm left feeling empty.
So there was a period of time there where I also didn't, I said kind of like fuck your box, I'm not going to be what you want me to be. Which actually got me roles as well. It was like a whole other side of the spectrum where I would, I would book roles because I didn't - I walked into audition rooms like I don't care if I book this. However, and that's great. Like, oh, okay, and then they loved how flippin I was, and they were like, she's the one, cool. But then again, you still have this emptiness, because it's not quite all that you are. So it wasn't until I really started admitting to myself, yeah, you do need to brand yourself, you know, quote unquote, and you do need to take your person seriously as something that you are selling as an offering. You know, like this is I'm offering you my skill set. I'm offering you my gifts to the world. And so I started looking at it more as, okay, you want to put me in a box. I'll decorate it how you want, but I'm going to hand it over to you, and you have to open it and as soon as you do, I'm going to give you all that's inside, but I know that I'm giving you this box of my free will and I'm only decorating it based on this audition or this character. I'm not, I'm not just giving you everything.
That was really important and key to my mental health and to the career itself, because I got to a place where I realized there's power in that, because casting needs you too. Like, it's not just you need the job - casting needs you to be the one. And when I started doing, you know, I started - I loved being a reader for other people's auditions. I think if anybody out there, listening has never tried that, please, please, please run to your nearest opportunity to be a reader somewhere, or help someone with an audition, you see so much more than you could have possibly seen from in front of the camera. Because you realize when people walk into the room, they're just not right. And you don't, it's not anything personal. Someone walks in, and you're like, Oh, yeah, they're not it before they even open their mouth. So I realized, that was also a really great opportunity for me to see that. Why am I trying to be something? If it's not going to work anyways, for this role, like it's not, I'm just not right, because I'm me. But I am right for a bunch of things. I just got to find those things.
And once I really started, like, truly looking at it as a game, as a business, as something to pursue, and for me to be pursued, to put myself out there in a way where I'm showing my skill sets, and I'm proudly saying who I am - that was when the game changed for me. And I feel like I had, you know, between that, and my divorce, I actually had this, let me just leave it all on the table for you because I have nothing left to give, but I am who I am and take it or leave it. And that's when I booked the Cavewoman on Leftovers. It was like, I came into that audition room. and it's, well, such a pure, beautiful, raw vulnerable piece about a woman who's just literally like, you know, she's got nothing left, because she's, there's an earthquake, and all her people are gone. And now she's on her own. So there was a lot of metaphor in that particular audition.
But I feel like, you know, for people who are listening, you know, find the things not only that you're interested in being on, but the things that really fuel you and charge you. And really pursue them like you would any other job or, you know, I don't know how you are in your dating game, but like, you know, like you would a relationship that you're going after. Like, you do want to get their attention, you want to woo them, but then you want to be honest and vulnerable from the start. And if you don't have the ability to do that, you're gonna hit some some walls, or you might book some stuff, and then hit walls later, because you're still not being honest and vulnerable. And that's where therapy came into my life. And I just feel like, therapy was a huge key component. This was before I got a divorce. In fact, I think it was probably one of the reasons that I ultimately ended up getting a divorce because I was finally getting rid of all those voices and asking myself, who I am, what I want, and how to get there.
And one of the biggest things that I had to deal with was pain, and how, you know, pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. And I was telling myself, I can't get these things, I'm never gonna, it's not happening. And I was suffering, I was suffering in my mind. But my therapist did such a great job of kind of calmly taking a backseat and saying, but you're not suffering. This isn't an emergency. It just feels like it is - just you think that it is.
And so, from 2007 to 2018 when I booked Resident Alien, I'd say the biggest change in my in my game was finally letting go of how my career having to look a certain way. It was me finally admitting, I'm trying to figure out who I am in this life. I'm not trying to figure out who I am in the next gig. I'm just trying to figure out who I am in this life. And it just so happens that certain gigs pop up along the way that really resonate. That was how I felt about Resident Alien actually, because I was like, two to three years out of my divorce, but I was still really struggling with grief and isolation and feeling like where do I go from here. And that is how Asta is when you first meet her at the top of the show. She doesn't really know what to do next. And she's in a lot of grief. So I had a friend Sam - one of those other podcasts you were talking about. She pointed out to me that while I was in the worst year of my life 2015, which was the year of my divorce, that was the year that Asta was being written. And I think it always gives me goosebumps. She's the one that kind of pointed that out to me. And I thought, Oh, God, Wow, look at that. There's no way I could have known. But everything that led me to getting Asta, I had to go through so that I could understand her so that I could be a vessel for that character.
And I just feel like, I was just talking about this with a friend this morning, we have this way of thinking it has to go. But it like, if you can, if you can really, truly accept that it's going to go however it's going to go, if you can really come to that acceptance. You're free. And, and it's not like it doesn't come and go this ebb and flow of anxiety. I constantly am a person of anxiety and depression. But the depression part is way less than it used to be because I'm in more of an accepting position. I don't, you know, I don't deny myself the depression. I don't tell myself it's not okay to have it. I don't shame myself for it anymore. I just realized now Oh, except that I'm having hard feelings today. And that I'm scared or that I have these vulnerabilities or insecurities. Okay, I'm gonna deal with that for a little bit. And then I'm gonna move on, because that's life. And I think that's the same way that we have to approach our career. Anything we do, we have to approach with this, I'm going to give it all that I can right now today. And if I can't do that tomorrow, I'll deal with it then. You know, absolutely was a very long winded answer.
No, it was great. You like that you went to so many - so many different places that I want to just like, analyze. So I'm very excited.
I mean, what are the apples off the tree?
I mean, number one, I think that it's so it's so wonderful that like you came to that realization that seeing a therapist was going to be super crucial for you. And of course, that's something that I talk about all the time, I still see my therapist, and she's incredible. I'm curious if there was a point in your journey that you were like, I need help, and how you came to that realization and how you found your therapist.
So I was engaged to be married. And after we got engaged, I got even more fearful of losing my partner in a way that was very unhealthy. Like, all of a sudden, I've got everything I could possibly want. And now I'm terrified that I will lose it. In retrospect, part of that was the energy that we were both dealing with, you know, there was definitely a part of my partner's life that was in a different state entirely. You know, we had different lives that we were trying to pursue without kind of realizing they were different lives. And so eventually, when we figured that out, we had to make the very sad but mutually respectful decision to part ways. But at the time, I think we both felt bad energy and I was unhealthy. I was unhealthily clinging to him. I was like, don't go don't leave me. Don't ever ever leave me. I can never be alone. I can never be on my own. You've given me this opportunity now to partner with someone. Don't you ever fucking die or leave me like it was crazy. All of a sudden, it was this weird, gripping fear. And I was like crying almost every day. It was bizarre. And I'm like, wait, what is happening? I just got engaged. And I'm like, the most depressed I've ever been. We were fighting more than ever. And I so I just I just, I heard a voice. Honestly, I heard I heard a voice and I'm sure it now in retrospect, I know it is my higher power my higher self helping me like get up and go to the you know, phone and make a call. But I heard a voice say like, you need to get help, like outside help. You need to talk to somebody. Because I was I was keeping it very between me and my partner. Nobody knew that I was suffering with these fears.
I was really nervous about going to therapy for the first time. I had a lot of, you know, feelings about therapists at that time in my life, because I thought well, therapy is for people who are fucked up, right? Like that's what everybody says and I'm, I'm not fucked up, even though if you would look at me at that time. My life would have been like, Sarah, like, you're a little fucked up, you know? Get a grip girl, you know, cuz I'm 26. Why am I clinging on to anybody I shouldn't be arms open exploring the world right now.
So, I started therapy. I literally just kind of looked around the area for, you know, best therapists near me. I was fortunate in not kissing a bunch of frogs before I found my prince. I found my prince, and she was a princess, if you will, I found her first try. That is not the case for everybody. So I just want to make sure people know like, sometimes you got to go on a few dates, you know, before you find the person that matches you. Don't settle, don't just go for the one that's the cheapest, because maybe you can afford it, like take an investment of your life and your mental health. Mine happened to be kind of middle of the road, expensive investment at the time in my life. And she was really willing to work with me on a payment plan. And that was a big deal. So I found somebody that fit right away.
And she, that was the first thing we worked on was the concept of pain. And I was telling her how gripping my fear was. And she would do this thing where she would go through a series of questions... But why? But what will happen then? What does that mean? You know, like, every time I would say something, and she would make me un- like uncurl each year, and like, look at it. And until I got it down to a base concept or a base core structure. And that core structure was, I was, I didn't like myself. If I don't like myself, then why would I ever want to be alone? Why would I ever not want to be without a partner, I would always need something and I was you know, I'm a big people person. I'm very social, butterfly Libra love to take care of people - nurture. But at that time of my life, I was so good at it, that I was horrific at taking care of myself.
And it never even occurred to me that that was an option. I just took care of everybody else. I took care of all my friends, I took care of my loved ones, my lovers like anybody, but myself, which is why it got really scary when it got quiet. It got so loud and scary and violent. And it felt very, very frenetic. And like, I didn't know what to do with myself, and it came down to this core, true place that I think I think most people have to face is the concept of liking yourself. And I don't know where we came up with this self loathing tradition. But it's been passed down from generation to generation. It's something that our parents have dealt with, it's something our grandparents have dealt with, because it's so much easier to put your attention on someone else than to turn the attention on yourself and ask yourself how you feel about it and what you want to do that day.
And of course, you can say there's a lot of people out there that can be completely opposite. Totally, totally selfish, only think of themselves. But if you really still break even that down, if you break down somebody who's totally egotistical, you'll find they actually hate themselves too, and it's a really, really common unfortunate relatability we have as humans. And I think it's just honestly, in my research of human observation, because that's really what acting is. It's, it's, um, it is just like, a through line with our species. And, and it has to do with, like, humility and shame, and, and fear, really. So I feel like when I started going to therapy, I remember her saying, like, Is it okay to not - is it okay to have pain and not know, why is it okay to have fears and not, and not have to, like, immediately solve them? And I was just like, I was just like, uh, like, What do you mean? What do you mean, there has to be resolution there has to be resolution like, but is it okay to just sit and not know the answer?
Yeah, that's that's one thing that I've talked about a lot. I was just on on Sam's podcast as well and talking about you know, how to process this year with the pandemic. And something that my therapist has talked to me a lot about that really fits in so well, with all of the trauma that everyone's experiencing right now is that you don't have to experience and process at the same time, those two things can be separate. You're allowed to, to mark how you're feeling about things. And then go back and analyze and process and work your way through it like it is, you know, it doesn't have to be that we have to solve our lives in all of these different ways all at the same time. Because that's just not necessarily how that we're built.
And then the other thing I just want to touch on really quick with what you said about, I mean, the part about hating ourselves and self loathing, like that's about our physiology, and that is one of the four components of mental health is physiology and how you talk to yourself. And that's often the thing that is the hardest to break through. Because with the four elements of mental health, like your environment, is your social and physical environment. That is, I mean, relatively easy to change. Of course, there's all sorts of systemic issues around your community, and how that affects you, and the people and how that affects you. And there definitely is some times when it's easier, and sometimes when it's harder to break that, you know, those environment, those negative environmental factors. You know, brain chemistry can be easily handled in some way with medication. The spirituality piece is about, you know, finding a community that resonates with you. But the physiology is all about self work. And it's all about the self work that has been ingrained in you from childhood. Like, I like to believe that at birth, we have some sense of self love and self examination. And we're just like, so excited that this, you know, new creature that we see in the mirror. But even that, I mean, there's like all of the generational trauma, that there is more and more studies about, which I would love to hear your perspective, and if this is something that you've done, you know, dove into before, because I know that that's, I assume something that lights you up. But like with generational trauma, of course, that would be part of your physiology and be part of your DNA. But I mean, that's certainly the mental health piece. That's the hardest to process and kind of nurture in a way that is going to be helpful to us instead of you know, constantly wear us down.
So yeah, I'm curious what your thoughts are on generational trauma? And if that's something that you've talked with your therapist about, if that's something that you've processed yourself? And if you have any suggestions or tools for people about if, if that's something that they feel is affecting them, how to work through that.
Yeah, you said so many things I want to pull from the apples of your tree. But we'll just start with the question, which was generational trauma. I definitely have observed and studied everything that I can in my own family tree, as well as other family trees, because I'm an actor. And so I'm constantly like kind of doing that work on their own histories and backgrounds to make them the whole person. I do think that there are a lot of things passed down that are out of our control. I think once you get to a place where you have the ability to recognize that, it will free you as well and other ways because you realize that part of your personality is a conglomerate of a bunch of other people's personalities that were passed down to you and that it's not your fault. And so when you come to an acceptance of, Hey, this is not my fault. You can at least take a step back and go well, what do I have control of, because I might not have control of how this was handed down to me. But now that I see it, and I accept it, I can change it. That is possible.
Obviously, there are certain parts of our personalities, the recipe and the makeup of who we are as a, you know, a human when we're first born, that are pretty impossible to change. Because it is, it makes us who we are, it makes us unique. But there are ways that you can do that work. I've not only done self work on my different ages of who I am and who I've once been. I've also done ancestral work on who my parents have been at different ages and who their parents have been at different ages. I had a you know, and this is based on what you believe and what what fuels you. If you believe in a higher power if you believe that there's past lives. I'm a somebody who believes that energy doesn't die, and that it gets passed down from generation to generation. I feel like ancestrally you can - I really believe that you can have been your great great great grandfather, if like that could have been you and that that is passed down from generation to generation. So when you feel like you've met someone before in your life that feels like a soulmate, it's a good chance that they have been with you in another life, maybe even your sibling, or your mother, or maybe you were their dad, like, there is there's truth to that. That's what it is, I think to be a soulmate, that that we have been mates through our souls having lives on this earth. That, to me is what that means.
I had a shaman friend, Sarah, who is just a cherished friend, we were already really good friends before she started this work. But I was her guinea pig. And she met with me one night, she was trying to figure out, you know, if she was on the right track with her feelings, because she would doubt she would get information downloaded when she would like be near people, she would see things and hear things and she didn't know why. And so then she started realizing it wasn't hers, it was other people's. And so she decided to use me one night as like this information to download. And I had a really bad bout of depression at that time. This was right after I got the divorce. Again, this was in 2015, when I was like really, really having the worst year of my life. And she told me that this depression was like an old friend, like something that's been with me for lifetimes. And it led back to a great great, you know, grandfather or grandmother who had been murdered like this, this depression and anxiety took on the form of actual fear that had gotten released, when you know, that happened. And I was like, Well, I don't know about any of that in my family history or whatever. But I believe you. And then she did some other cool stuff, and I felt like you know, mind over matter, I felt like something had lifted, and I didn't have as much of that depression.
Come to find out like, next time I talked to my parents, sure enough, my great great grandfather was murdered, like, axe in his head in his own backyard, like wild. And it doesn't mean that, that that I was him, right. But it does mean that whatever that fear was, the idea of the fear that got passed down, that that my great grandmother was was 12 years old when that happened. And that she had - think about that she's 12 years old, both of her parents now are gone, one of them has been murdered. She and her sisters have to take care of her younger brother at age 12 and 14. Like that, that kind of fear and have to work, and have to get, and have to survive. All of that got transferred into my grandmother, which then got transferred in to my father, which then got transferred into me. So even if you don't necessarily believe in past lives, or that you can, you know, that fear and that and that, you know, work ethic to survive, it got passed down to me. So much so that when I came into the world, the same shaman friend, she does this frequency therapy, these like, sound bars that she uses around, like, kind of your aura of who you are, you know.
And so side note, like, if you're into this, like go seeking the thing that like is going to help you have the therapy you need, it doesn't always have to be a sit down therapist, maybe it's acupuncture, maybe it's being in nature, maybe it's frequency therapy, like, find what works for you. But she did this frequency therapy for me. And it was interesting that you said at birth, you know, we have this sets of personality traits, and then we kind of come into life like, you know, pure starting over but ultimately, with a certain track record. I've always had this time anxiety like I don't know why but I don't I don't do well with a click - a ticking clock. And maybe other people do. But for me, I just I can't handle it. It bothers me to no end. And I don't really know why. But it definitely has seeped into my psyche in some ways. And I get really irritated when people tell me I have to do something by a certain time. Like I'm like, Don't tell me what to do. And also don't put a time on it. Like don't
That's a good thing to know about yourself.
Yeah, yeah. But I went to her, and I said, like, what is I was having this anxiety about how quickly or not quickly things were happening in my life. It was time anxiety for sure. And I was feeling very, like overwhelmed by like, when is it going to happen for me like I don't know, now that I'm here, I don't know how to relax because I don't know the timeframe in which things are going to happen and it was like I couldn't relax. So she does this frequency therapy and the whole theory behind this frequency therapy is that we come into the world with a certain frequency just like a heartbeat. And you come in with a certain heartbeat, and then something significant happens and boom, now that's your heartbeat, boom, boom, now your heartbeat, something else significant happens.. You know, at age five, this thing happens. And then at age seven, it goes, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and like, now your frequency forever, is changed forever. Every time something significant happens.
So she's telling me where my significant points of origin are. She's, she's reading my frequency. And she's like, oh, yours came right out at birth? Did you have an emergency birth? Like, did you have anxiety at birth? And I was like, um, well, I don't know. I don't remember. I don't like wow. And I remember, like, well, what what's your birth story? Like, what I was like, well, technically, the water was all gone. And my mom didn't know what happened to her water. So all these doctors that day thought that I was going to have pneumonia or like lungs formed outside my body, like I drank the water like that I was going to be stillborn. So there was a ton of people with anxiety around me. And then they forced my mom to go into birth early. So I got forced out before I was ready to which makes me laugh because I go, this is why now you think about it, my origin story is I came out before I was ready. And this is why I don't like being told to do what you know, push to do something before I'm ready to do it.
However, what she was helping me see was, maybe this is how your frequency started. But what we need to do is reassess why it happened in the first place. And the reason it happened is because you would have died had they let you wait until your due date. So as honorable as it was, it was causing me this massive, like I didn't like being it pushed me into age five, where I went into kindergarten, you know, earlier than I then I should have, or pushed me into age seven, whatever, all of it by time anxiety bumps. And so I bring that story up, because there's a way that you can do that self work, where you can go meet with people or do your own, as Sarah calls it, like "who's upset". You know, you can shut your eyes and you can find out who's upset and usually they're a certain age, and they're in a certain place of your body. I think we talked about that before that actually.
It's funny, because this is something that my therapist has brought up with me as well. And just to like clarify for anyone listening, so it's basically about like, different past versions of yourself at different ages, that are - that sit at certain parts of your body. And it's interesting because this scalar therapy or sound therapy, you know, sound healing like any of this kind of stuff, this is actually something that I do as part of my like day job work. I work with a company that does this. And and it's fascinating because the science behind it now, especially because not only does your heart have a certain frequency, but every single organ in your body emits a different frequency. And so a lot of sound healers or, you know, people who do this frequency work, they will now be able to help organs get back into the frequency that they are supposed to be in. Yeah, the rhythm that they're supposed to be in. And it sounds like woowoo but I love when the woowoo is connecting with the science because it becomes like indisputable. There's facts there which ties everything together and like such a beautiful way and it just makes makes it all like so much more believable to like, everyone across the spectrum instead of it just you know helping one person.
That even reminds me of the moon ceremony work because if you think about it, we are bodies of water. Why do we think that our water on our planet ebbs and flows to the gravity? And why the - why the moon is such an important scientific part of that gravity pole, same as the sun a reflection of the sun. It's like, why wouldn't we be just as movable as the ocean waves? We are bodies of water. So when I when I really started tapping into that scientific part of how we are truly being pulled and pushed by the moon's reflection of the sun, it was like, oh, there's more to this. There's more to all of this atmosphere in this world in this universe than we can even comprehend. I agree with you indisputable is a beautiful word. It's just like a fact. Why do you think that full moon becomes a thing that people are like, Oh, it's a full moon. That's why whatever - it's like that's a frequency that's happening. That's a true - when you really start studying the moon, and different cycles, which I have been, you start seeing that the full moon is actually a really great time to charge up your energy. And it's something that you can use to your advantage, but it will plow you over, if you don't pay attention to it. And that's why most people are always talking about like, it's, you know, technology's going crazy. And we're fighting and whatever, it's because it's a powerful energy that it's being admitted. And you can literally just like tap into the flow, or you can get like, crushed by that river. Your choice.
And once I started realizing that you had the power to tap into energy like that, just like you're saying, every body part has frequencies. That's cool. I've never heard that before, you know, I did this frequency therapy with Sarah, but I'd never heard of each body part having its own frequency each, each pump to the heart, I'm sure, each, you know, place inside of you. So when you do that self work, you know, the hardest part is getting started. The hardest part is actually doing it. And most people will tell you, especially with meditation, or sitting with self - I just can't do it. But the "can't", is resistance. And the can't is I'm not willing to. And some people will even argue that point and say no, it's not that I'm not willing, I just physically cannot. Okay, then don't sit, then walk, or stand for drive. Do you know therapeutic driving is? I find such therapy and just like getting on the road listening to some music or not being totally silent in my car, and you're doing something that activates your body, which is what you do in meditation, you sit activating your body, and then you let yourself think and daydream and, and thoughts come in and out. And you go, Okay, here's there, there's that thought, here's this thought. But eventually, a voice comes in, eventually a thought or an idea or a feeling comes in you hadn't heard before. And you're like, hmm, that was nice, or Oh, I need to think about that. Why? Because you gave yourself enough time to get rid of all those other voices so that you could hear that one thing. And that's all meditation is that's all sitting with the as we started this conversation with the question marks, sometimes you have to just sit with the I don't knows. And, and that has to be okay.
And my fiance, and I am I moved on from my divorce and met and incredible man that I'm very much in love with. And I am now engaged again in my life. But what feels like for the first time, really, and he was the first person that ever said, "your answers are on their way to you". And it was such a simple, simple sentence that has changed my life. And just like he has, it was just that simple. It was just like, if you can accept that about where you are right now. Then, again, you have this power to let go of holding on to anything and you just say, "Wow, whatever it is, my answers are on their way to me".
Because the fact of the matter is, if you look back at any time in your life, anytime in your life that you were freaking out or upset or in grief. And you're past that now, the truth is most of us can't even remember why we were upset in the first place. I guarantee you there was a ton of drama in my teenage years, and in my college years, and in my 20s. I can barely remember any of those.
I have found so much joy in studying myself. And it's turned into studying my mother, who have asked a lot of really interesting questions too, about how she is as a woman outside of being a wife and mom. And that's turned into me asking questions to my Nana, her mother. I wish I could ask more questions to my ancestors that have passed on. I try to ask them those questions when I'm doing Tarot or in moon ceremony because I do believe they're still with us if they, if you want them to be. But I just feel like the further you go and the deeper you go, the more fascinating it is.
And then all of a sudden, I went from somebody at 26 who couldn't stand the idea of being alone in a room with myself to now at 37 being somebody who craves alone time. I crave it now. Now I hope each day I can get at least an hour. If I'm lucky. This is how it usually goes. It's about four hours of like, non you know, uninterrupted "me time". And that is just wild. I'm you know, it wasn't that quick, it wasn't that easy. That's 11 years of me doing therapy, going through a divorce, having a, you know, mistakes, big mistakes that were made lessons learned. But through all of that, I started becoming a friend of myself and studying who I really was, and what made me, me. And the more I did that, the more I was willing to put that back out there. And now at 37, all I want to do is tell people about who I am, and not in a not in an egotistical "look at me" way. Like in a, I want to talk to you about you. And then I talk about me, and then we talk about each other and we get to know each other, like I want to - it's a sharing and a connecting. It's, it's all it's this incredible, like, this is an opportunity you have with everybody you meet, in your career. I love like one of my new favorite, you know, women in my life was my hair designer for the show, like she and I that just you meet someone who's willing to be that honest and open with you. And you can become it doesn't even have to be friends, you can just share a connection with anybody. That is where you you know, then you're then you're going to start to get into the deep work of... now I like myself so much, and I'm sharing myself a lot, but I need to come have boundaries on who I share myself with.
I was gonna - that was actually one thing that I just wanted to say really quick was your work around boundaries, I admire so much. Because I think that that is something that you have clearly worked on
I didn't even know what boundaries were. I went to an anger management therapist once and she said the word and I was like, excuse me, what is it? What is the boundary? And I wasn't joking. I was like, boundaries? Boundaries is something you put up as a fence, you know, for your yard. Like I like what? What do you mean, personal boundaries? Like what the fuck, you know. So yeah, that's a big important key that we could have a whole session just on that.
I was gonna say we definitely could. And I know that we're almost out of time. But like two final questions here. And this actually, you know, goes perfectly. So when it comes to boundaries, when it comes to now, like you, I know that this is this is just the start of your career really exploding in a really wonderful and beautiful way. And I am curious how you are managing at keeping that sense of self. And you know, More Than You See I really created because of these masks, especially actors, or people who are public facing have to put on in order to protect ourselves in some way. But also, of course, it's so important to take that mask off and be vulnerable with people, which is why I'm so grateful to have this conversation with you. But how, you know, how do you handle that? Like how - and how are you anticipating and putting in the work now in order to make sure that you are going to maintain your sense of self as you become a bigger and bigger star that you are bound to become?
Oh, Deb, thank you. That is a really, really great question. And I'm glad that you asked it because it is something I'm currently working on. This is where having a practice for yourself is key. It doesn't matter what the practice is, it has to be for you and you alone. And it's something that you need to do daily. Because if you can get a practice of self reflection or journaling, or sitting and meditating or driving your car for 15 minutes by yourself, like whatever your practice is, if you can make that a priority in your life, then when things start to get busy, it won't be so hard to combine the lives and won't be so hard to combine my practice into my busy life because now it's such a priority to me. And it is. Now I'm so focused on self love and giving myself time to breathe and think, that it's a key component to my day. Which means when I go on set, I wake up an extra hour early just to have my quiet time. Or I factor it in at the end of my day. If it's going to be an early day on set, then I know, when I get home no matter how tired I am, I'm going to take a bath and listen to a meditation because it's key for me to keep my mental health in check.
Because it's really easy to fall behind. It's the equivalent of like, you know, taking sugar out of your diet and then you just eat one cookie And it's like, oh, you could eat the whole thing. Like, yeah, you have to realize that it's something that needs to be maintained and managed, especially - and this is key when you feel good. Because it's really easy when you feel bad to be like, oh god, I'm having a shitty day, I'm gonna meditate, I'm gonna try to feel better. I'm gonna write in my journal. I'm going to be introspective and write a poem and be like, upset and whatever. Listen to music. Like, it's really easy on a negative day to self reflect. But what does it look like on a positive day, to include it into your time frame, and to be of gratitude? To be someone who goes, Hey, I'm still writing in my journal today and I'm just really grateful that I'm feeling good, and this is what I'm doing today, or whatever your practice is.
For me, my practice involves sitting for at least an hour, involves taro and involves journaling, and it usually involves a meditation of some kind. It changes from day to day, but it's something that I'm dedicated to doing daily. So much so that I've done it for the last two years. And I'm now in a position where I'm having so much fun, but I'm looking back on where I was at on this day, two years ago, and seeing how on April 26 2018, oddly enough, I had the same kind of day where I was feeling really good about myself, but I ultimately was introspective or whatever, it's amazing, you start to see your human patterns, you start to see like your cycle as a human in this world. And so valuable, it really is, then you start I mean, I would encourage anybody to keep a journal of some kind, even if you don't write, you can pull out images of magazines that inspire you and paste them into your journal, like you can do whatever you want. But when you have something you can look back on, it helps you study that self reflection helps you understand, you know, from I think from brain to actual paper, what you're going through.
It's you know, some people call that art therapy, that's a real thing to take charcoal, which I did all through my year of divorce. Now, a lot of good charcoals that year, because, and when I look back on those, I can see exactly what I was feeling and thinking at the time. And the more you do that, the more you practice sitting with self in some way, practice making yourself a priority, then, when you get busy, especially in your career with people pulling at you, you'll say to them, okay, yes, I can do this, and this, but the cut off time is this, because that's what I'm giving myself time. And if you don't have the ability to do that, before going into that part of the career, you'll get eaten alive, and you will get spit out and you will be exhausted, and they will take everything they can. And because it's not that this business is really beautiful, but it's also really, really time consuming, and really soul sucking. Because they love good energy, they just want to suck up all your good energy and keep it for themselves. And then they want to showcase it and they want to capitalize on it, and they want to advertise it.
So you have to be careful about who you give your love to, when you give your time to this person or that person or this project or that project. And why. Like it's really important, especially with how busy you get that you take a step back, I hope all of you get so busy in your lifetime that you get a chance to be picky and go, but why. But why should I do this one today? You know why this one? Because then you'll be in a position where you can go, because this one matters to me. Like this podcast, for instance, this one matters to me. And I mean that. It was really important that I had this conversation with you. Because you said, well, if we can't do it this week, then it's going to be three weeks from now. And it was like hell no, this is too much of an important conversation to leave for months from now when I have no idea what's going to happen. I'm fortunate now that I can look ahead and go, I have no idea what's coming. So I have to like keep that open down there.
And that's the other thing. And that's the other thing I would say about future planning. I come from a military background. I'm so good at future planning. But the funny thing about future planning is it never goes to plan. So why are you wasting your energy planning something you cannot know? Like, you don't know enough about the unknown to fear it. And you don't know enough about the unknown to worry about it. And you don't know enough about the unknown to even plan it. So you might as well just be here Monday, April 26. Right now, what am I going to do for myself today? The end. That's it I think if you can, if that's where your practice begins. What a great place to start because eventually it turn into something. But if you truly asking yourself that every single day, then there's never going to be a time where you're not including yourself. And I think that that's part of my practice now that - I'm going to get emotional. That's part of my practice now that is, is priceless.
My ability to love myself and my ability to choose myself first, before any dangling of a carrot in front of me, no matter how golden and no matter how exciting, I still take a moment each day and I go, is this what you want to do? Why, question mark? Okay, are we in? We're in Let's go. You know. So I think that that is, you know, the last thing I'll say about that process is, some of you listening may not necessarily be there yet, you might not be in a position yet - to be able to be picky or to make choices like that - you still have to be very, you're on, you're in a grind. And I'm telling you on the other side, I'm still in the grind. It's just a different level. It's just like a different type of grind, but it's still a grind. Regardless of where you're at in your career. I promise you, choosing yourself as a priority of your investments of your lifetime will never ever be a mistake.
Yeah, that's beautiful. Just the final question that I like to ask everyone. And again, thank you so much for prioritizing this Sara. I truly, truly appreciate it.
Yes. I'm so glad.
Yeah, me too. So again, you know, More Than You See is about the masks and the different levels of self that we're willing to give to the world, but also that we're still kind of like working through ourselves. And I'm curious, if you want to share if there is a part of yourself that you're still working on, if there is a mask that you are still trying to break through in order to be more vulnerable with the world and with the people around you.
Good question. I'm currently working on making mistakes publicly. I think it's really easy in social media to put on a happy face and show what you want everyone to see. But not necessarily show how it really is. So I'm using my social media now as a safe place to make mistakes. Meaning like, I might want to play guitar one day, and it might not be perfect, but I'm gonna put it up anyway. And maybe some people think that looks really cool. And they're like, that's great. But there may be things I don't like about it, I still poste it anyway. It helps me work on my vulnerability. It helps me work on my honesty. And it helps me be work on bravery. Because when you approach characters, and you show up to rehearsals, and you never know what's going to happen, you're gonna make mistakes, you're not going to be perfect at it.
In fact, one of my biggest lessons learned was one day on set with Alan, I made a huge mistake in one of our rehearsals, and I couldn't handle the rest of the day, because I made a mistake. So, and that's just me being a perfectionist and wanting to do it perfectly. What the fuck is that word? You know? So I'm working on - and when I say public, I just mean like in front of other people who don't know me, as well as my good friends who forgive me for anything, or my fiance who forgives, you know, like, I mean, like strangers who don't know me - who maybe even are gonna make judgments about me. And I have no control over that. And I'm learning and working on how to not write - this is something one of my best friends Meredith taught me - don't write that script in your head. Just because I make a mistake and I someone sees it. I write in my head like, Oh, they think I'm so stupid. Oh, they think I'm so dumb. Oh, they think oh, they think oh, they think and it's like, I have no idea what they think. I might as well write a script that says, Wow, they think that I was really brave to just do that. Like, why don't I write that script? So I'm working on that.
And then forever and always, I'm working on patience and trust. I've gotten a lot better about it with my practice with my therapy with my journaling. But every once in a while that human part of my brain comes in and just like refuses to trust a moment or to have patience with the timing of things, that time anxiety. It's like it's a hard habit to break for me. And so those are the things that I'm breathing through. My other best friend Ariela she taught me that the "this is not an emergency". So when I'm really feeling like the rabbit foot is just like patting on the ground so fast, and I realized my foot is the rabbit foot, and I'm the one causing the world that I'm getting lost in, I try to just calm down and remind myself, this is not an emergency. Unless of course it is. And then there's a whole other story there. But most of the time, it's not. So I that's what I'm working on. I'm working on being honest and unapologetic.
Yeah. Well, that's beautiful. I'm, I'm so honored to be beside you on this journey and continue to learn about myself and to learn about your wonderful self. Thank you so much for being here.
Yeah, thanks, Deb. This was awesome.
Again, thank you so much, Sara, for being here. I'm just so honored. And I know that every time I see you or I talk to you, I just feel all warm and fuzzy inside. And I hope that some of that warm fuzziness passed on to you, my listeners. Again, I want to thank you for you know, being a part of these conversations for being part of the community.
Please share this episode with someone who you think might resonate with it. Please let me know what parts of this episode resonated with you as always, I'm available, you know, through Instagram, feel free to DM me, I am the person who checks all of the things and so you know, if you want a good way to have a conversation with me, that's the perfect way.
Please be kind to yourself this week. Remember that no matter if you are pursuing big dreams, or you are just grinding away at your day job, or you are switching things up or whatever, you know, really be kind to yourself and remember that whatever is in your life is is destined to be there. And we are all working through things together. I think that that's definitely something, just like the idea of a universal spirit, is definitely something that I always get reminded of whenever I talk to Sara. And basically that means that you know you are connected to everyone around you. So please remember that you and everyone that you see is More Than You See. Thank you so much for listening, and I really look forward to doing a little debrief episode with you next week. Thank you so much.
