1869, Special Lacrosse Episode with Author Christian Swezey & Cornell Men's Lacrosse Head Coach Connor Buczek

8:31PM Nov 1, 2022

Speakers:

Jonathan Hall

Christian Swezey

Connor Buczek

Keywords:

cornell

lacrosse

coach

moran

play

talked

field

recruiting

game

maryland

season

eamon

team

years

tradition

conditioning

mueller

piece

fall

mentality

Welcome to 1869, The Cornell University Press Podcast. I'm Jonathan Hall. In this special Cornell lacrosse episode, Cornell University Press author Christian Sweezy and head coach of the Cornell men's lacrosse team, Connor Buczek share their stories about, and their in-depth knowledge of, the Cornell lacrosse team, both past and present. Christian Swezey is the author of the new book, We Showed Baltimore: The Lacrosse Revolution of the 1970s and Richie Moran's Big Red. He is the producer for EWTN News Nightly, and has covered lacrosse since 1991, including 20 years with the Washington Post and Inside Lacrosse, Dormer men's lacrosse great Connor Buczek (Cornell Class of 2015) was elevated to the Richard M. Moran Head Coach of Men's Lacrosse in the spring of 2020. After spending five seasons on staff, first as a volunteer assistant coach for two years, and then as an assistant coach for three seasons. A three-time All-American at Cornell, including consecutive first team honors over his final two seasons. Buczek graduated as the top scoring midfielder in Big Red history with 155 points. He helped the US to a gold medal at the 2012 FL United Teen World Championships in Finland, played several seasons in Major League Lacrosse, and was a member of the US Men's Lacrosse indoor national team that won the bronze medal at the 2019 World Indoor Lacrosse Championship.

Hey, Christian Swezey, a lacrosse journalist and author of We Showed Baltimore: The Lacrosse Revolution of the 1970s and Richie Moran's Big Red. Obviously it talks a lot about other programs and lacrosse. But spent some pretty good time in Ithaca, and some of the places where the Cornell plays, so it's great to see you again. It's great to chat.

Yeah, appreciate having me on.

And thank you for your schedule, a little bit more busy than mine. So thank you for squeezing us in with recruiting and everything. And sort of speaking of May I ask you, obviously, one of the parts of the book is The rivalry with Maryland, you know, the 71 title game, the 76 title game, which is arguably one of the best games of all time. But maybe we could start with a little bit more recent contests against Maryland, the fall ball scrimmage up in Philly may ask how that went? What was your impression of your team and frankly, about Maryland?

Yeah, always great to get back and play them. And, you know, we've been kind of traveling circus, the last few falls, and we played on Long Island we played in Jersey, and in this this fall, we're in Philadelphia, and so was awesome. You know, it's a great litmus test for our team a great opportunity to play against, you know, a perennial national title, favorite and get a good sense of what we need to work on and how we're stacking up. So fall ball is a tough one to take read too much into the score. But in the tape, there, there's a lot of gold, there's a lot of good stuff that we can pick apart and dissect. And obviously, being at a season and not having another opponent to turn around to is great. And so we can really dive in and get better from that tape. But they are as advertised, you know, Maryland is as consistent as it comes. And they're skilled and talented and well coached. And they play hard. And so was a good opportunity for our guys to get out there to compete against the best to, you know, see how we stack up and see what we need to work on. And, ultimately, now come back out of that, a lot of things for us to improve on and a lot of things that we're gonna spend some time on here as we wrap up, fall ball and move into individual sessions.

And we'll follow the Cornell dates from the 40s I think in my book, and even places like Rutgers had a nail had it even earlier than that. I mean, how important is following coach Moran always said, there was a chance for guys to get off. And frankly, I think he used a lot for conditioning. I mean, what do you try to take away from football? Yeah, foul

balls roll. We're trying to just build the foundation of our culture as much as anything, you know, we have some restrictions in terms of how much lacrosse we're allowed to play versus, you know, our non Ivy peers in Division one. And so there's certainly some different ways we have to go about it. We're not maybe as much and on the field as consistently, but they're, you know, they're not things that, you know, within that there's a lot that we're still able to do. And so our time with our strength and conditioning. Coach, you know, Coach Halley is, you know, it's incredible, you know, that guys are really special part of our program and a guy that builds the culture and builds the foundation of who we are. He's been doing it with our program for 30 years and so that alone, we try to invest as much time with him as we possibly can, you know, him as a teacher, a, you know, instill our of our values and our culture is as good as it gets. And so we spend a lot of time with him and religiously spend time in the weight room, even at the expense sometimes of time on the field because again, we just think he helps us build the right way in make sure that we're doing things and going about our business the right way and creating that mentality, and that ultimately, that directly results with how we're how we look on the field. And so by pairing that, you know, again, a simple build on the lacrosse field and building mentality in the strength and conditioning piece, and again, pretty, you know, heavily centered on that mentality. You know, we build, and try to lay the foundation for when we are on the field every day when we get to the spring. One of

the things that struck me about talking to Coach Moran, which was obviously the huge, you know, as much as I enjoyed working with Cornell press, and we're getting to talk to some of the players, you know, it was kind of cool to have Mike French call me back like, wow, that's a Hall of Famer who just called me you know, like that it was amazing, obviously, getting to know Coach Moran, but one of the things that really, I felt that he was really ahead of his time on a lot of things and even in terms of it was almost a year round sport, even in the 70s, you know, they would do fall conditioning, obviously, and have one fall scrimmage, usually choke off field, and then, you know, starting in February, they would have the work they would do the mile run inside people. August was eight laps around Segal Hall for timing, and then they would do you know, the box lacrosse at the Polo barns, and then they would work out at the cage, you know, when they had to the defense would have to navigate the pitcher's mound, you know, but and then obviously, they were outside as soon as possible. I mean, how much of that has not changed at all, I guess from when Coach Moran was there in the 70s, to now

a little, you know, few better facilities, you know, we're in the barns, but we hope to carry over a lot of that same mentality. Again, the cool part about Cornell lacrosse is that the culture and the way it's been built, and that blueprint for success here hasn't changed much over the last 50 years, you know, very much the family culture that coach Moran built and the hard work and you know, that blue collar mentality that he instilled here all those years ago continues to be the kind of the guiding light for us and our staff and how we want to build this thing. We've seen it a lot over the years and seeing the success that it's had. And so for us, we're just trying to make it the best version of that, that we can. And again, there's there's a lot of good pieces there that coach Moran left for us and coaches over the years that have again updated it modernized it maybe a little bit, but still with the same mentality and ethos. And so that's our goal is to build it much the same and use a lot of the groundwork that they've laid for us to continue to build, you know, the tradition and the foundation of Cornell Krause.

One of the things that struck me and impressed me about the research in the book and talking to some of the people, you know, coachbuilder back at Navy, who won a national titles and 11 years in the 60s and early 70s. His theory was always the team of the best athletes is going to win 95% across teams, do you think that is still true?

I think you got you need the athletes, I think you need talent to I think this game today is so skilled. And so I'd say certainly, you know, the team with the the better jimmies and Joe's are probably going to win 95% of the time. But a lot of that comes down to both the athletic acumen and the lacrosse skill and IQ. And I think when you start to match those things, you start to see programs that are pretty successful year in and year out.

One of the other things that really struck me was, you know, he would talk about the fall and you know, even when those teams in the mid 70s When they went on that huge winning streak that included fall scrimmages, we, you know, Dan McAfee destroyed and golden was playing soccer. And you know, McEnaney played two years of varsity football and Marino video varsity football and Hendriksen I think like three years of varsity football, is that something that could even happen today to sport athlete at that level, you're coaching.

I think it can still happen for the one off and in the individual. But I think you know, the out of season has has become such a big part of what we do. And everything that we do, especially at this level is a year round, endeavor and building in the fall and setting the basis of your culture, like we've talked about doing the strength and conditioning and the offseason work that comes with that. And getting into season. It's just, you know, it's become so tough and grueling on the body, that it's tough a to be in season for an entire year. But be to not have the strength and conditioning work and not be getting bigger, stronger, faster. Improving at your craft that way also, is at times a detriment. And certainly there's some superb athletes out there. And there you see guys that you know, play football or soccer in the fall and then are able to pick up the stick and be that level of athlete and competitor to be successful in the spring. But it certainly doesn't happen as much and certainly for entire teams. I think the way that the out of season is handled and the importance that goes on that strength and conditioning segment in the fall is significant. And so I think that's been the biggest change is we're utilizing that time not just to play hoops not just to stay in shape, but to actually take that next step physically, you know, to add weight to add muscle and be ready for you know, what's a pretty grueling season once you get to the spring.

And that's interesting. You said about playing hoops because that was one of the things that Glen Mueller told me, the late Glen Mueller, I was very fortunate he made time for me when I was in Ithaca in 2019. And one of the things he said and Mike French remembered this, you know when French came on his official visit, and Saturday morning, you know, Mueller would tell the clug, hey, let's go play basketball because that's how we learned Richie's motion offense like he called it circulation. So that is something you still do.

Yeah, yeah, I would say we don't do quite as frequently but you've heard from a lot of those guys and you mentioned Glendon who obviously was fantastic, who was player but you know, guys like Timmy Goldstein in that era, that's what they talk about a lot is they played a lot of hoops in the in the offseason, again, just a good cardio workout good way to go compete in something a little different and maybe not beat up the same way you would be on the field, but certainly a piece of what we do. But you know, a lot more focused on the strength and conditioning side and the science that goes into building those guys through that, that that platform.

Is there a sense that there's like folklore about those teams? I mean, we're not and again, my visits were limited by the pandemic, I was up there twice would have come a lot more. But you know, for instance, when I found myself walking around and said, Oh, is that the SAE house or McEnaney lived as a freshman or, you know, that the house for magnesium? Gary mom sheared off 79? I mean, is there any sense of that, you know, any sense of Oh, that was gone. Mueller's fraternity or Bob rules, fraternities or any of that.

I think there's a lot of that. And I think that that's just kind of the type of program and tradition that's been set at a place like Cornell, you know, I think this place, you know, is incredibly steeped in tradition. And it's up to us to kind of uphold that standard in that tradition. And so, I think certainly the relationships that the fact that it's not, you know, you know, these guys that are legends are still very active and very, you know, valuable, you know, we see Frenchie at every event. You see, gold's, you know, at every event and, and so you go on and on down that line, and as you get later and later, you know, we have the 71 national championship team back to to celebrate the 50th anniversary last year, I guess, you know, 18 months now. So, for all those things, it's pretty cool. For us it's an opportunity to get to know those guys. And so obviously, there's some folklore but they're very real, you know, they're they're guys that are continuing to pay it forward to the new generation of Cordell lacrosse and make sure that these guys are successful in every way, and making sure that they understand maybe what made them successful then and what are the important pieces that we got to make sure that that we continue to to make a centerpiece of Cornell lacrosse as time passes?

And just a word I know Mike French lives in Philly, you know, that's not like he's not like he's an Ithacan could just takes five minutes to get there. I don't know what Goldstein knows, maybe Long Island, but that's very impressive that they would be not distance very close. It's still very much a part of the program.

Yeah, yeah, of course, he is in Philly, too. And again, it's those guys are all over the place that that make it back and just having alumni weekend a few weeks ago, and another incredible turnout and so lucky to have so many people willing to make that trip back and make the time and their schedules to get back and meet the current guys to see old friends and to to honor that tradition.

So when Eamon came up for his recruiting trip, it was a week early and it was December and it was freezing. And he called coach Brandon home from the phone phone booth and was outside I guess to go haul How would you have reacted? Coach Brandon rounded up a couple guys from SAE that, you know, take them to a hockey game and to dinner at the Statler. And I think he you know, took him on a recruiting, walk around the campus next morning, what would you have done there?

I would like to think that I would have been as proactive as coach there and been able to manage the situation and up the campus to get him some some guys to hang out with some things to do. But, you know, we know Coach, Coach thought on his toes, he was always ready for that curveball and always managed to well, and so I'd like to say I'd take a page out of his book and have him make sure that that we got that guy to stay at Cornell and be excited about it. But you know, certainly just getting you know, we talked about still on recruiting visits today and planned or unplanned. The best part about this place is the people and so just finding ways to get them out with our guys spend time with our players. And feel that sense of family and camaraderie and togetherness is probably the takeaway that we hope any recruit leaves here

with. And I know Richie was a huge fan and proponent of recruiting in person he liked to see people at the top of the guidance counselor, talk to the parents talk to the coach, how much of recruiting and even during the pandemic, it probably wasn't even you weren't even able to but how much of 2022 recruiting is in person and looking someone in the eye and talking to their parents face to face.

A lot of it is in just like you mentioned with with coach and talking to everybody just around a person, right getting multiple viewpoints in everybody around them to kind of speak to the character of the individual. That's 90% of our recruiting. We talked about it a lot that we're recruiting people, you know, the lacrosse piece helps us pick up the phone and start making those connections. And then from there, it's all the things that we hear from all the people that spend a lot of time around these, these young men and the type of families they come from. And so, for us we're looking for character fits as much as anything and if the character fits overlaps with the lacrosse piece and the athleticism, that's a homerun for us. And so, you know, for us, there's good fits, and there's good fits for Cornell and we're looking for the good fits for Cornell.

I know Coach grant talked a lot in Coach waldvogel, to his longtime assistant, talked a lot about that bulletin board outside the locker room, they said it was like the Bible, you know, and practice plans were there. And the only statistic that would keep up there were ground balls, you know, the ghosts were kept in the journal or by sports information with ground balls from one of the professors was the only stat you could find on that bulletin board. Is that still? I mean, is there still a bulletin board? Or is it still I mean, now in the internet age, maybe there isn't. But it's or something like that. So

yeah, I think for us, you know, the biggest statistic that we keep is something that we call 20 ones and again, kind of you know, rooted in the legacy that George Bernard he's left us in those tough plays those effort plays those plays that maybe are unsung by most you know, we're trying to stat those and find ways to give a number to how hard our guys are playing and so although there's there's maybe no note no corkboard anymore that you know, we hang the stats on. Certainly there's there's things that have lasted because of the way Cornell plays lacrosse and the version that we want to put on the field. Did you get to meet Eamon McEneaney? I did not know unfortunately, what you

have. I mean, obviously, you know, Coach Moran, what was your take when you first met coach? And what was it like getting to know him over the years?

Yeah, the first time I met him, bigger than life personality. You know, that guy was the mayor of Ithaca and knew everybody and you know, knew everybody's family and knew what made them tick. And so he was a special human being because he cared so much. You know, he the thing that we talked about since his passing and the thing that we as a Cornell lacrosse community have to pick up the slack now is, is he was always around, he was always available. He was always checking in. But he showed up he showed up to everything he showed up to alumni weekend, he showed up everybody's Hall of Fame, inductions he showed up to everybody's you know, life changing events, you know, whether it's weddings or funerals, or you name it, he was always the omnipresent figure. And he always had that Cornell lacrosse hat on and so certainly a piece of it that we're gonna have to pick up but that that larger than life personality, that immense care for everybody he came into contact with are all things that certainly we've taken from from coach and try to, you know, make our own and certainly focus on as you know, while still doing it in a way that is authentic to ourselves.

I know he didn't always much it meant for him to talk to the current team on September 11, every year anniversary game instead may ask, you know, since a coach passed away, like me ask what this September 11 was like this past fall?

Yeah, you know, we spent some time with the team out, you know, looking at the plaques and, or that we remember that, you know, on top of, you know, Eamon passing now we're missing coach Moran. And that was always something that he loved to do and took a lot of pride in that conversation and speaking to our guys and again, just just voicing his gratitude for his time at Cornell for his Cornell family and for, you know, the people that passed and you know, remembering those guys and keeping them in mind, and obviously on that day, you know, a somber day, making sure that it's top of mind and so we certainly missed having him there and the ability to speak to our guys but certainly we didn't miss the opportunity to remember Coach and you know, the way that he would have liked us to remember Eamon and all those last time, September 11.

I was at one of the events for Eamon, a couple of good pre COVID It was 2019 and somebody broke out like a little highlight film of some Eamon's big plays, you know, there's a lot from the 76 title game in particular. I mean, you've seen film on those guys, what was your takeaway on especially the 7016 but maybe all those Cornell teams in the 70s Do you ever take away on that?

I think the most interesting part right and you know, we've got a couple of those clips on an even tape that we watch rather frequently within Cornell lacrosse, you know, that that trio at attack just so prolific and so you know, willing to sacrifice for the team but you know, there's that iconic you know, image of you know, aiming to French there when he was ahead of the play and just that that self awareness and in the way those guys were on the same page and in the way that they you know, truly dominated there over the course of multiple years was pretty special, and then a time in Cornell across that that will always try to try to you know, reach you know, that's that's the hope obviously, I don't know if we're gonna win 42 games in a row in today's day and age certainly that that's the goal, but that that's the tradition and that's the standard that this program set over the years and obviously to have a team that was so successful on such a big stage and did it with a lot of guys that just worked hard came together coach, but you know, found guys on campus and it was given them sticks and those guys returned to all Americans at times. Pretty special. And again, you know, they've started that tradition obviously there There's groups in the 60s and Bruce Cohen and with Cohen they started the party. But certainly the things that they did in the 70s to set the trajectory for Cornell lacrosse for years to come, will not be forgotten.

So Eamon would have gotten a 21 for passing up that goal,

I would say, I would say so.

That's awesome. Another thing, like Mike Waldvogel said, and a few of the defensive guys who said it as well that one will go always said it's three mistakes that need to go. The third mistake being the goalie probably should have made the save. Is that still accurate?

I don't know if that's always accurate anymore. I'd say the the skill of this game and the technology of this game is progressing that sometimes it can be one mistake. And that leads to a goal. It's not so Always so tic tac toe. But certainly, you know, I think the theory still holds it at any point, you could probably find a way to check all three boxes there along the way.

And one of the guys pick, the woman talked a lot about their man down, and especially in their 76 title game, the man down rotation. And if you ever, you know, have you ever asked those guys like, Well, how was your man down? So good? Or what were you doing in that game and 76 title game to shutdown Maryland Southside shooters, is that there's ever been a conversation or Has anyone ever approached you and said, Hey, this works for us.

I don't know if it's really ever been a conversation outside of coach Moran... Coach Moran would certainly you know, offer some of those tidbits here and there and walk some more guys through it or give some of his tricks of the trade that they used and things that he felt would help individuals. And so it's cool, you know, for you know, as long as I've been on the coaching side, you know, I've gotten a little tips from Coach Moran here and there. And certainly he does this, the rest of our staff and our individual players. And so obviously, to have a legend of the game and a guy that was so successful at his craft around just as a sounding board and to hear how they did it. It certainly gave us a lot of confidence in certainly allowed us maybe even if it wasn't exactly what they did, but finding some way or the thought process in which they got to how they're going about it has always been a very cool experience and a cool part of having coach Moran so present.

Me I guess that the the 70s is still today that the bus ride to Dartmouth is not much fun. I don't like it very much.

That one hasn't changed, unfortunately, over the years.

I mean, you know, the bus ride, it was some guys doing homework, and mostly guys just kind of, you know, getting to know each other and playing cards. And I forget there was one card game that they would always play in the back of the bus and it was like a season long, you know, they would keep stats for the entire season. Is there a sense of that was? Or is it more just guys on their phone now? Or what is the bus ride? Like?

Yeah, I don't think anybody's really breaking out the cards anymore. But you know, with that being said, I do think it's bonding time, you know, some guys, you know, have some work to do, and we'll be doing that. But for the most time it's downtime. It's the end of the week where you know, the preparations done. Now we're trying to travel right and make sure our heads are right, and make sure we're showing up and ready to compete at the highest level. But by Friday afternoon, we usually have already done our walkthrough by the time we get on the bus. And so it's some downtime and some well earned downtime for those guys as we ramp it up for Saturday afternoon. But, you know, we watch movies guys hang out on their phones, but guys, you know, most of all enjoy each other's company and just the ability to bond on those long bus rides.

One of the things that really impressed me Connor was the guys and I was like, wow, like that long on a bus trip and march like it must be terrible. So no, no, they, you know, that was actually one of the better memories for a lot of those guys, especially the early 70s. As you mentioned the bonding and the cards. And apparently some of the smaller guys would sleep like where you're supposed to put the luggage and I don't know, it sounded kind of fun.

That's incredible. Yeah, again, those I think, you know, it's it's that age old adage that you will remember for the games necessarily, remember the times in the locker room and those downtimes and those funny moments and certainly, those long bus rides, there's something about them that are memorable and enjoyable and certainly after after wins the bus ride homes are always fun. So you know, plenty memories from from my playing career on the bus and plenty going forward as I continue to get to spend time with these guys and be on the bus with pretty special times come from from some of the longest most monotonous bus rides.

What is Schoellkopf like? What is it like to play in Schoellkopf? There was so much history in that statdium. And I have to admit it wasn't all that aware of before I started working on the book...what is it like to play there?

It's really special place? You know, we love the setup of it and the history of it. And obviously, it's unique. It's not like any other stadium in the country. And so for us, it's home, you know, and so every time we get the opportunity see there's there's just the history of Schoellkopf field in the crescent, but also for Cornell lacrosse specifically, right there's the history of George Boiardi in passing away on the field and some of the significance that that's taking on as George's house. And so for us, you know, protecting our home field and making sure that we are honoring that tradition by the way that we play in the effort that we give every day is an important piece of Cornell lacrosse and something that we, we don't take lightly. And so, you know, again, they're everybody's got their home field that they want to protect. But I think the combination of that tradition and that history that you mentioned in George's house certainly makes it it takes on an added level of importance for every guy that had the opportunity to wear the Cornell jersey.

Have you thought about what it will be like taking the field for your home opener and Richie won't be in the press box? You know, hopefully it would still be there, but he won't be there. Have you thought about that?

I haven't a whole lot, but certainly, you know, even though he won't be there, you know, in person, he certainly will be there in spirit and and we know you know, Richie has our backs and you know, guided us through that, that tournament appearance last year and through that tournament run and we know that the next time we get out on Schoellkopf that helped me with us as well.

That was Cornell University Press author Christian Swezey and head coach of the Cornell men's lacrosse team Connor Buczek. If you'd like to purchase Christian's new book, We Whowed Baltimore, use the promo code 09POD to save 30% on our website at Cornell press.cornell.edu. If you live in the UK, use the discount code CSANNOUNCE and visit the website combined.academic.co.uk Thank you for listening to 1869, The Cornell University Press Podcast