everyone. It's Tim Villegas with the Maryland Coalition for inclusive education, and you are listening to or watching, think inclusive, our podcast that features conversations and people doing the work of inclusion in the real world. I'm in the middle of running errands out on the town in Marietta, Georgia, and I'm headed to a record store right now. I think it's called CD warehouse. It's where I like to get vinyl records because they're pretty you know, they're pretty inexpensive. They usually have some good deals. Why am I going to a vinyl record store? Well, because this week's guest is in a band. His name is Alan Cortes, and he's in a band called Reynolds. That's R, E, y, N, O, L, S, the band is from Argentina. And something that's really interesting about this band is that the lead singer and the front man for Reynolds is a man with Down syndrome. His name is Miguel Thomasine. This rock group is like experimental rock, like really out there, noisy, really creative. It might not be your cup of tea, but when I heard about Reynolds and that they've been a band for 30 years, I thought this was something that y'all needed to know about. So headed to the record store right now, gonna see if I can pick up some new vinyl for my collection. Yo. All right, so before I go in and check out the vinyl selection at CD warehouse. I wanted to tell you about our sponsor for this season, which is IXL. IXL is a online teaching and learning platform for for students in kindergarten through 12th grade. It's a platform that a lot of teachers use to customize the learning of their students and to kind of keep track of where they are with certain standards. So if that sounds interesting to you, go to ixl.com/inclusive that's ixl.com/inclusive All right, I'm going to go in to CD warehouse and check out the selection, and when I come back, we'll wrap things up and send you off on Your way. Okay, see you On the other side. Ah,
Alan Cortis, welcome to the think inclusive podcast.
Robin flood for having me here.
Absolutely. I'm really interested in how you how the band is called Reynolds. Did I hear that it was first named after Burt Reynolds?
Well, in my old years, it used to be the bard Reynolds and timber, that was the first name. But with the years, they just went straight into Reynolds. I'm just, right, yeah, I'm
trying to figure out a way to describe Reynolds to our audience. So our audience is mostly educators, teachers who are in schools. Some are special education teachers. Some are general education teachers. A lot of them are interested in disability rights and inclusion. When I first heard about Reynolds, I had no idea the band existed at all. But what struck me was that your band has been around for decades, and that one of your main band members, Miguel, has Down syndrome. You're from Argentina, so I'm wondering if there's an easy way for you to explain what like, how would you describe Reynolds?
Well, it's very difficult to describe it. I mean, nobody's through other YouTube. There, who, unfortunately is ill today because he was supposed to also join but he could fever, and he once said that Reynolds is like jet engine. So you know, that might be one way of describing it, because it's like something that allows you to travel and to go to different places. So it might be a jet engine in one way and in the other way. Well, of course, it's about this whole process playing with Miguel, who is a very great musician and very special but we never know what is happening is completely improvised. So that's the I mean, it's not that we are trying Miguel to play what we want. It's just to flow, which is our with music, which is like completely unpredictable, but at the same time, it's completely great. So it's something very unique in that, yeah, no, I
like that. I like that description. How did you first meet Miguel and know that you wanted to start a band or make music with Miguel?
Well, she came to the academy, or Music Academy, we were working in 1993 back in 1993 and he was first asking for drums lesson. It was like an instant connection, where Miguel said to Robert the first time he met him with like he presented himself like, I'm a very famous drummer. And in a way, he said it in a very nonpreventious way. And he was right. He's now quite famous because of his word, something we're working for on his ears. That started, and we realized it was something really unique, the connection it made us invent ourselves as musicians, and I think that's one of the long super things that we have playing with Miguel.
I was reading this article in The New York Times that they wrote about you, and I'll definitely link it in the show notes. That's a fantastic article. I think they did a great job, but they said that I think it was one of your first shows, and was it his father that came up after the show? And you thought, I don't think he's like, this, is it like, this is the end of Reynolds like, because it just was, it was so unpredictable and loud. And you thought that maybe this wasn't gonna continue. Can you tell me more about that
where he was also we could talk about Jorge Damascene. He unfortunately passed away in 2004 but he was a great guy. Jorge damasin, Young's father and Kenny. He was not especially interested in rock music or loud walk or free form music, but I don't know, he was really interested in having his son being able to be happy, and he didn't know anything about his music. And with, like, very free form, little bit weighed out freedom, Nier was free enjoying it. So he sound like something like, I don't know anything, I've always used it, but it Megan is happy he's through the band. And Bro, that's really great. Because, I mean, he was always very supportive. So I think he always been super grateful about Miguel's family support for the band. Because if not, it was not possible to have seem, I mean, we know it's very supportive, and also his manner met and mouse when Mario his brother and also his family, and it's great because they've been so supportive.
Yeah, I'm wondering, and I know we have some clips from Miguel. We'll go ahead and play that later, but first, I want to know if you know anything about in the New York Times article, it says something about his parents bullying him because the schools were not educating him the right way. Is that correct?
Well, I think mostly been be one, because beyond when he met us, he was ending school. You know, when they end this there, I mean, they don't have a proper secondary school or primary, but there's more, but they just have to end. And that's a big problem, because most of people with Down Syndrome and risk of them, it is we have to decide what to do, and there are very few employment works, so it's difficult for them to find activities or, I mean, you can, but it's like an effort for primary to say, Okay, what's next? And his father was, he was handling his his school, and he wanted you got to do something to react to you. And you was really into the music camera. I think he captures the right place. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, we just felt that he was, like, super talented as musician. And I don't know, I mean, we've been playing more than 30 years now, so I think it was the right place.
Yeah, another thing that I realized was how you first got recognition when you started playing for the television show, when you became the house band. Could you tell us a little bit about that? Like, what was the transition from just playing shows and then becoming a regular band on TV?
It was very unpredictable in all senses. I mean, we were not expecting that, but you gotta first an interview or match on TV and this medical TV show that made us Mr. Interview under guy who was a very important TV, one of the doctors, the main doctors in Argentinian TV, of all crimes. He was there in the TV, medical TV in the 60s. And he was, he was being forever there, and he proposed us to be after the interview with hound band of the of the medical show. So we weren't playing live. This was in 1998 in Argentina, Russia, on TV at that time, it was for ATC now with the channel seven. So we played really live, like David Letterman's house band, American TV, that was in the afternoon, three to four, two to three and TV, so Nigel was really playing that. You can check that on YouTube. There are some crypto brands playing live in the TV show. Yeah. It wasn't very, you know, like, it was a big training for us to play there, because we had to play every day, and Miro was doing it really well. I mean, I freaky is the first person from what we we've been trying to research, and there's no other person with disability. We've noticed the beam thing in the national QE regular show Margaret with Friday Amber, yeah, that's something. It's
something, yeah, about about having Miguel part of your band was, Did you run up into any barriers going and playing shows or a developing audience with having a member with Down syndrome, was that a barrier at all for you?
I mean, for us, it was Robin Harrier in terms of, I mean, we always been thinking about his ability, not just your civility. I mean, we always found that he was a great musician and great player, and we just said, Okay, let's go, yeah, start from there, and that's it. But on the other hand, it's true that we had some resistance, some poem and critics, you know, like even people saying horrible things about the Baron or even aft, or even Miguel, which is worse. But, I mean, of course you're gonna like or dislike the band, but to think badly about the whole process, that's something beyond I think, I think you can if you don't like the band, it's rice, perfect. I mean, you can just listen to other bands, just to think horrible things about why we are playing together, that's other level. And we always wanted to protect Niel, because he's a great player, so we are trying not to expose him to all these aggressions. But there are some aggressions. I mean, we have to fight against that. But I think nowadays it's very little, but we still getting some, uh, we've normally been getting a lot of recognition and love from other people, but also you have some percent of ugly comments. Sure we are typing them.
Yeah, I see that as a parallel to sometimes families who have children with disabilities and people say, Well, you know, they can't do that, like they can't play music, or they can't try out to be in this theater program, or they can't work the job that they want to because they're disabled, and if they do happen to have any sort of recognition, then the criticism is like, well, that's fake. You know, you're making it happen when it really shouldn't happen. And so I see that parallel, right? I mean
that. That's what we need to fight in a way, because you might like the way since or not, he has his own voice. But the most important thing for us is that McGill have his own personality. And, you know, for experimental music, free form music, that's the main thing. He has his own most is like very personal and then you can have a lot of other voices were well trained or whatever, but it's not timing like him. Also, Miguel is like inventing his own language. He's not always speaking, even in Spanish. So that's quite unique, and you might be born to, I mean, it is rather easy listening music. You really need to realize this guy's inventing a lot of things there. And that's the great thing about it. If you want instant listening, you should know, using some other music, it has a value. You know, it has an artistic value and a project value. And that's why we definitely took the responsibility to realize the best thing for the band was to just put me again in the front and say, We are following you, Robert, you have to do what we are not saying either to what to do. It's just we want to flow with your with all this stuff. And she understood perfectly done. And that's the way we've been going for more than 30 years.
It's unbelievable. It is not the music, and I can definitely appreciate the artistic value and the contribution that Reynolds has made to music. See, it is not easy to listen to, but I think it's worth listening to. You know what I mean? And that's someone who is a musician and someone who likes all different kinds of music. I think that it's probably, I wouldn't say that it's like, accessible or pop music or anything like that, but it's something that you'd want to, like, sit with and really absorb and kind of what you were saying. You know, a lot of it is improvised, and so it's really just energy that you're listening to, just the wild energy.
Definitely, it's like, you need to get into that zone and then get out from the conventional zone there. You know, that's exactly what happens to us. Because it took us some kind of to realize why it was so incredible what mio was doing. It's like ours. It's not very easy drawing thing. It's very good. So you have to maybe listen it like 1234, and maybe if, even in 10 times, you start realizing, oh, there's something else. There's nothing wrong about this. It's completely something moving in a different way. So that's a premium. It's like, that's why it's so special, because it has its own value, and it's not easy listening. But I think it's something, I mean, it takes me and, you know, it requires some energy. It's like a good film. It's not like a blockbuster thing. This kind of cinema that you need to just enter the film. And it requires energy, and it requires you to get out from your standard zone of perception. You can go somewhere else. So it requires something, but when you you're getting, I think it's highly rewardable, because, I mean, it's like you're getting something else. From what mir has to say, yeah,
there's a phrase in the United States or in the in English, presume competence. And what it means generally, is specifically, when we're thinking about people with disabilities, is that rather than look at a person like Miguel or anyone with a disability and assume that they don't know what they're doing, they don't know what they're saying, they don't know what they want, but to automatically presume that they do know what they want, they can do what they want and achieve their dreams, learn what they want. It's kind of like when, here's the story that you said when Miguel came and said, Hey, I'm a famous drummer, and that some people could have been like, no, no, no, no, you don't know how to play the drums. Let me teach you the right way to play. But instead, what you did is you're like, Yeah, you're a famous drummer. Let's go
definitely. But it also is kind of a, you know, that's why art and music is like, your right spot for this, because we want Megan to be Miguel. There's nothing fake about that. It's like his own expression. So we are giving, of course, we had to deal with the logistics and everything and just set up with brown Peter, whatever. But in terms of expression, is what he has to bring, and that's completely real. You. Had to make anything fake about that is real energy that is coming out from bruh, yeah.
Do you have any, like, memories or stories of things that stick out at with you, with playing with the band? I there's one thing that I read about, which was the your concert for plants. Is that right
last but when I mean, all those years, it was a big shock for us, what would Miguel? Because we were, you know, with 20s, and Roberto was painting. We we didn't want to make Russian music or mainstream music. We were just searching for something else, sure. We started talking with Miguel, and we were working around to get some free form of stuff, trying to get out from the conventions, to get something else. Good partner was so easy, always, so it's it was super easy to get out from the because he was like, Oh, we so always saying something. I mean, I could tell you a couple things that Miguel was saying on those series that are kind of shocking for us. Like, for example, we asked him, like, what hand Miguel what came first Yang or the chicken? And what Miguel says was the cock. So yes, dialogs kind of, we asked, like, what's there in the moon? And Miguel answered a screw on a charmer made tape. So we had this kind of dialogs that were completely unbelievable. He was so young, like, so bringing saying things that so just like you know, is this the thing that he was always, not trapped in any convention, in this artistic side, but you ask about something specific, about what was your question?
I just wanted to know if you had any particular memory, memorable stories about you playing together. And I referenced the concert for plants, but we don't have to talk about the concert for brands. Was
also part of the process, because we made a record without a record, so it has no record in physical form. And also we presented the record for brands. But it was the whole process of trying to get out of the conventional things that a band should do. We can play for brands, not for humans. We can have a record without the record. I was the whole process of writing ideas sucking with Miguel and having these dialogs that I I told you that I was in that level kind of amazing in terms of the inspiration.
Yeah, is the band your full time job right now? Or is it something else?
The economic situation in Argentina is very complicated and now, but we've been not expecting to be a commercial band. We are very happy with what we are doing as a band that we are not really expecting to live with the incomes of the band. We are working a lot and we are not able to play that shows very often, because nowadays we are living very far away from Bucha. Scientists through sound in Patagonia and Bucha general. So we are just meeting these days. We are, unfortunately, very few times that the band is still active. So it's we talk with Miguel owner. Actually, we can listen a little bit regal how kids voice. Yeah, the first clip.
Let's do that. I'm think I have to share my screen here, share sound.
Use your curator. Sure I wish you
to go. Okay, so he was saying something interesting. That is like he started, he actually started playing drums when he was three years old. And that's completely true, because there's a photo I can send you, and it's possible to find it online. Then he's playing drum kit in a toy drum kit with three years old. So that's another incredible thing. Is like once Miguel said that he started the band in 1967 but I was born in 1972 so he started the band even more. We were more but also because he was Yeah, talking about his ability and his connection with the with the drums from different ways.
Yes, all right, I've got two more clips. Let's go ahead and play those two.
We can play in a second and relieve the third for the end, because it's like kind of. Or goodbye or something,
okay, sounds good. Sounds
good. Here we go. Yeah. No idea that
yeah, he's here. He's talking about, because he started playing the drums, and then he started playing lot of other instruments. And now we normally change on stage, is like going from one place to another. So he starts playing drums, and then he might change to the keyboard. So he was saying, I'm playing keyword a guitar, and while he's playing a harmonica, blues, everything. So he has been expanding his own ability and singing, of course, and inventing his own words and lyrics and language and melody. So it's kind of interesting, doctor, nice
that I think lately that your latest album is it was a collaboration right between another band?
Yeah, I think I'd send you some tracks. Our last album is the acid mother radios volume three, and that is collaboration with Japanese band. We're recording in a big studio here in Argentina. And there's even a film about that. It was third volume of collaboration with the Japanese guys, and it's now out on BHF records in USA. It was also very interesting the way the Japanese guys interacted with Miguel. I mean, there's a film about that. We can send you the film if you want to project in your area, it would be nice, because it's very nice film. It have been in some festivals in us, USA, in Europe as well, but we are always happy to send the film from people. Yes, nice connection. Because, of course, Japan and Argentina have very different language. But at the same time, music is language. The film is showing that in a way,
where would you say, like, if somebody wanted to listen to Reynolds, like, Where would, where would they start?
Well, that's a physical point. I mean, there's a very nice book stacks that is, like six CDs and one DVD, but it's called minixioma nations. There was usually Norway put that a lot of stuff there. But also, we have, in United States, we have this pinoto cover of moons now on the on color music that is a nice album also. And in Spain we also have a recent connectivity. Snow hit in regeneration. And this atima Rain falling tree. There's a lot of music out there, so you can check it even on YouTube and Spotify. There's done a lot, but there's something, and I think those ran things.
Okay, yes, and we'll put some of those links in the show notes as we wrap up. I wanted to ask, who would you say is a musical influence? I know that's hard to answer that question. But if you could boil it down to one or two artists, who would you say?
For me, it's very important to especially do music made by native ethnic groups in Argentina. Yeah, each ethnic group has a special native music that I'm very inspired by, native music by different ethnic groups from all the world. So that's a big thing. Yeah, a lot from a coaches, or how much inconsister, etc, etc. But from underworld as well. Of course, you send all the ethnic groups around the world, Mexican and Asia as well. So that's always inspiring music. And then, you know, like, of course, well, something from some Sun Ra to Jeannie Henry, I write classical music back or whatever. A lot of 20 and, of course, a lot of Argentinian music, like rock and jazz and pre jazz contemporary music as well. So it's like a very difficult to say, but we love a lot of music, like for Liu Yan with Rita, or what was very into, yeah, Johnny Cash. And, you know, like a lot of great music from now, yeah, and of course, etc. Miguel is also very fan of The Beatles, much music from the 60s, 70s and some 80s as well. Yeah.
And do you have any particular plans to play any any shows in the near future?
It has been really difficult this year, because it is certain that Miguel is living with south of Patagonia. So there are no plans at the moment. We are mixing a couple of new tracks that will be coming in in the future. But, I mean, we don't have, I mean, that's the thing about Rails, that is not as bad. Is like not following any form of the industry or the market. So it's like whatever the bands wants to go. And that's not me, not Robert, just like an entity, like it's whenever it's possible, the band will ask us to play, but we don't know when, with venerable Wolf Man, at the same time, we are quite active. We are always working in doing new things. We have an exhibition that will be in Norway, but in muenos, in Stavanger Pro and in September, we had one in Oslo, February, and the same exhibition will be going to Stavanger in September. So that's great. We have new stuff that is coming in different forms, but unfortunately, not live shows, but we wouldn't say whenever possible for us when we had this coming to Buenos Aires, I'm sure we'll pray, because people is asking us to play, but we've been not able to do it later. All right,
I am wondering, can we play Miguel's last clip and then you can tell us what it says.
All right, let's do a market visit. Yes, it.
He's sending mcieg for all the audience with a lot of love. So it's like regards for the audience everywhere.
Well, we really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us about Reynolds, and I'm really looking forward to spending some time with the music. I think I'm really going to enjoy it.
Nigel said one something very important that she says we are living simple and presented. That means I will always live in the present. So, you know, that's something about his way of living life, and that's like kind of really deep. And it reminds me also another person that was very important for us, that is American composer paulinarus, who was dealing with deep listening and with different techniques. And she was a good friend, and we made some records with her. So it's, I mean, living in the present.
Yes, the aim, that is the aim, living in the present. So, Ellen, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We really appreciate it.
Thank you very much, and keep the good work. Thanking Kusu,
welcome back. It's the time of the episode where I give three reflections from our conversation and two calls to action. Three for me, two for you. Let's talk about my conversation with Alan Cortes. Number one, I am just so impressed with Alan and his passion for music and then also his dedication to letting Miguel be Miguel. And I think that was one of the big takeaways for me from this conversation, is that they really just let Miguel drive the innovation and creativity of Reynolds. Imagine if we did that with our learners with disabilities, and we really just trusted them to direct their own learning and their own life. So that's number one. Number two is I spent some time with Randalls music this week. I can confirm that it's hard to listen to there were sometimes I really found a groove and kind of something to attach myself to. But, you know, it's not for everyone, but you know, if that is of interest to you, I'll make sure to have all of those links in the show notes. And then number three, number three life is just. Her with music. I didn't end up getting any new vinyl at CD warehouse, but what I wanted to show you was, this is one of my favorite bands. I'm holding the vinyl record by The Flaming Lips. Yoshimi battles, the pink robots. This is one of my favorite albums that I just love everything about this. I'm going to put this on as we wrap up the episode. But I'd love to know, as a call to action, I'd love to know what you like to listen to. You tell me either in the comments and Spotify. You can email me tvgas@mcie.org or you can just answer the question. If we post this on social media, let me know what you're listening to. I love to listen to new music. Number two is, try out some Reynolds. Like I said, it may not be for everyone, but you may want to just tell somebody that there is this rock group that's been around for 30 years that has a member with Down syndrome, and he's a very famous drummer. All right time for the credits. Think inclusive is written, edited, designed, mixed and mastered by me Tim Villegas, and is a production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education, Original Music by Reynolds. Thanks thanks to our sponsor, IXL, Learn more at ixl.com/inclusive thanks for your time and attention and Remember inclusion always works. You.
