Hello, wonderful, quiet rebels. Today's episode, I feel is just something that all of us have been crossing our fingers hoping would come on somewhere. Because it's so needed. And this is a topic around, how can we really address our content? And have that be informed by what's going on in the world? Like, how can we be responsive, not necessarily reactive, especially when there are sensitive issues happening around the world, especially if we're not experts in those issues. It can be so tempting for us to kind of like keep silent, because we don't know what to say we don't want to cause harm. And that could spark a reaction in the audience thinking that we're silencing ourselves and therefore our audience. And on the flip side, if we start saying something without being well informed about the topic at hand, it can just come across the wrong way. So it's like, okay, we want to help, but how do we help and so that is why I'm super, super glad that I have my dear friend as Sasha slosberg on the podcast today, because we're gonna be talking about how we can navigate sensitive topics via our content. She is the founder of good marketing, and she's a brand messaging and lead generation strategies. So Sasha, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast.
Hello, thank you. My thoughts are already worrying from all the things you said in the intro.
Oh, right. Okay. I remember Ashley, I think you had a like, three part masterclass or something. And I remember, this was one of the topics and I was just like, glued to the screen. When you speak. It was like, okay, yeah, I mean, like, I want to help, but I don't know how to help. So I would love to first like, take it take a step back before we get into all the goods and actually just like, ask you, how did you get into this work in the first place? And how have you kind of like grown into this position where you do help others, like ourselves in online business, like just to really craft content that is so resonant for our audience, and of course, helps to build that trust that we know is essential, in order for them to consider working with us. So tell us how you got into it like and why good marketing?
Know, it's so funny. The, there's a part in there that I don't think I've ever covered. Like, the basic story of how good marketing came to exist is Jonathan, my my husband, my partner, he and I met waiting tables as actors in LA and we work together for jobs, we need to find a better job and bring the other person. But ultimately, if you're an actor, and you're waiting tables in LA, that is, I can only describe it as salt, okay. And it's so hard because you're doing this thing, because you're creative, and you need the finances covered. So we're like, there has to be a better way. Now, there were many, many, I mean, just the typical entrepreneurial journey, it wasn't like some, and now we've solved it, right? We've figured out everything. But that is how we ended up as digital marketers together. And we became good marketing, because most of the people who acquired the very strange specific skill set that we've acquired, most people are almost they become like mercenary marketers. They just sell things online. They run ads, they do traffic strategies, and they just sell generally, things like how to make money or how to make a business online. But the success rate for all those things is not it's just, it's not commensurate with the revenue you can generate doing that, which I guess that's the idea of business for most people as well, you create something and you sell it. But for us, the thing has to work for other people. Because of the way that we learned our skill set, there was such a high failure rate for people. I'll try to be more clear, we ended up working for another man, this entrepreneur, he would make large deals behind the scenes with multilevel marketing companies, we would come up with the entire strategy to generate 1000s of leads, so he could build a team really quickly. And at one point, we did this for seven verticals at once because he had this demo science, it was just going to sell off the actual branded vertical. So you're talking blog with SEO, optimized content, social strategy, you've nailed your ideal client avatar so that they can be sold, I mean, the whole thing. So he also used some tactics that we just didn't agree with. He utilized fear based marketing, pain points and all those things that can cause such a quick emotional reaction to rile up your people. Whether you want to rile them up politically, to unite them behind something or just either way he utilized a lot of the traditional marketing techniques that I don't agree with and that I, I have found are not actually necessary. So when we began working with our own clients, we first started with holistic businesses because those are the ones that we were already freelancing or birth center, a chiropractor, we were doing various marketing, web work, etc for them. So, but we were accepting clients out of niche. So then we decided to expand and that 3am, the idea of good marketing came to me good to you sounds like one game Jonathan is like to use. So that's good. Because we work with clients doing good things in the world we have, we can act, and we can generate leads, but we don't have our own like, beautiful vision for some other organic thing that needs to be sold, right? So instead, we're utilizing the skill of for people doing good things, because we've seen how powerful it is to use it in ways that aren't necessarily spreading anything good or truly causing other people to benefit. So that is the and that's also why I learned you know, how to talk about challenging things on social because our boss did a really good job of it, just not in a way that I agreed with. And I don't see anybody else out there showing anybody how to so I created that masterclass, just purely on a whim almost two years ago now. And it's still something that people reference. Yeah. Which is so interesting to me. Yeah,
I reference it to my clients as well, because we we talk about how we can be sustainably visible, right. That's the whole premise of my incubator mentorship, and there are times when you know, there's something big that's happening in the world. And it's like, Oh, what, what do we do? And then I referenced them. Because I'm like, I'm not the expert with this, but I'll show you the master class. And I can say resonate with you, as well with working with someone who's very good at marketing, but in a way that just makes you makes your insides just go like, Oh, like, oh, I mean, now, I remember that. There's a particular phrase I hear. And it genuinely makes me this really quite sick actually, like, this reaction did not used to be the case, I used to be like, Oh, that feels uncomfortable. But now when I hear the word Oh, twist a knife. Oh, yeah, like that. One. I was a part of a retreat that was around visibility. And that's when I was a participant, I wasn't the one running it. And when the guests were coming in to critique pitches, they kept saying this to every single person who's had been deficient, I'd have to leave my laptop because I just, I couldn't sit in my seat, because that's how much it caused a visceral reaction in my body. I'm like, Okay, there's another way to do this. Right? And that's not necessarily like you said, so I'm curious, like, because you've seen how it can could be done in a way that's like, so against your personal values? How did you start developing your current strategies that you help your clients with now, where their content still works, but it doesn't require that twisting the knife sort of.
So it's so and I've only recently gotten, you know, so much of this ties into how to what you work with your clients on but I've only recently gotten more comfortable in in speaking about some of the content and business related things. Because if I say you don't need pain points that kind of flies against every classic copywriting strategy. Yes. So I, like I'm a trained copywriter. So I'm like, exactly. It's like, I have email series, and all the things where I utilized all of them. And it felt very, I would say cheesy when I would write them because I'm like, just this, too, we really need this. And it does work. And there are actually wrote, I pre wrote some emails to go out for next month. And one of the things that I spoke about was the idea that really, unless you're doing direct mail for like, durable medical equipment, I don't think the buyer needs pain points. Unless it's something that's so very look, you might injure yourself, actually a literal thing, perhaps. But what I'm finding works better is is and this ties into like a social content strategy as well. When you scroll through somebody, like you find somebody you like, and you look at all their pictures, but you're absorbing what they're saying. And so the words that people use, make the reader feel a certain way, and it's generally not intentional. So I was auditing once somebody's social, and the visuals were so beautiful, and she's a transformation coach, but everything she was talking about was the before. So it was a lot of words like frustrated, overwhelmed, depressed, and even though the first she's like, you know, I don't understand. It's like, well, when you read the back to back to back to back all these words are Making you feel down and not empowered to action. Now I do understand that on a sales page, the pain points are just the first part, right? It's make them feel. And then but surprise, you have the solution. But just the same as how you hear and twist the knife, you feel that so many buyers, and especially I would think for the people you work with, and the people I work with are getting smarter. So they feel it and they see it and they know it's not. They know that it makes them feel a certain way. And so sometimes people might buy despite that or book a call despite that, but what I find more often than not, is that still utilizing the pain points, tends to disempower if you it tends to disempower the buyer. So if then they're more likely like I find in my own in our own sales page, I nearly fell off my desk chair once because I had gotten into click, we use Click Funnels, and I've gone into Click Funnels and I look at and for some reason, there's no header on the top of it that I don't know who put it there. I think Jonathan was just like, oh, this needs to change. And it was like, Are you tired of your social media not working? It wasn't that bad. But I was like, what is what is this, because anybody who comes to us, because they need their social networking, or they need help, tends to be in a very specific position in their business where somebody else if we're showing awareness, right, but talking more about perhaps, the messaging, the brand messaging, the content strategy, and what becomes possible from that. Fundamentally, there's a lot of the same work, but it brings a different sort of a buyer. So the what I'm saying in the most roundabout way possible, is that instead of pain points, what I find works really well is awareness points, instead of making that taking them through this manipulative process, instead, showing them that you're fully aware of what they're going through, and that you even know the root cause of it, and you have the solution. It's a much more comforting process, and you're still getting to the same end result just in a very different way.
I'm already feeling a very big difference where the pain points is kind of like, Hey, this is what's wrong with you. And why do you have to buy this or else it's that kind of feeling. But what you're seeing here, the awareness stuff is like, Hey, I know what you're going through, you're not alone in this. And if you'd like, we have an option for you to help you with that is exactly a different approach. And it's such a subtle shift as well, but it can make a world of a difference. So thank you for sharing the alternative. Yes, yeah. Because for the longest time, I think that's really why I really struggled, kind of identifying as a copywriter, because I didn't fully agree with all of the strategy. I understood that they worked, but I also cared about why they worked, you know, exactly. And that's why I want to give a shout out to my friend and my mentor Ray Schwartz as well, because he's the founder of this coaching the conversion process, which is about empowering the buyer to make a decision, not the decision to buy, but a decision, just kind of like helping them get off that decision making sense, basically. And that felt like, oh, gosh, that's the antidote. Thank goodness. And so I love that, you know, you have a slightly different antidote. But of course, it's in the same camp.
Yes, yes. I really like I really like Ryan and his work.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know that we're like in the same circles. Yeah. So that's really good to know that you know, how your approach has changed through, you know, lived experience and just trying to testing out alternative, and you found something that's worked. And so now once you really switch gears here, and actually move into why we're having this conversation in the first place. So you and I know that there have been huge worldwide events that have impacted all of us in various degrees in various ways. And during those times, it can feel like, Oh, it can't be business as usual, right? Because if we are, then we come across as like, we don't care at all what's happening. But we also know that our business needs to keep running. So I'm curious when you made this masterclass, like two years ago, which I'm sure that everyone who's listening, like, what's this must talk about? Please give me like, we'll talk about that. No worries, because you're quite right. Yeah. So how did you like start to kind of like, hold the space for this conversation when we start navigating that because there's no clear, like how to linear process because these are very nuanced conversations. So I'm just curious, like, how did you kind of step into that role?
Yeah, I would say I mean, well, do you mean personally or to be in a place to go I'll create a masterclass on this.
So you can talk with one person okay. And then we can go into the stepping
in. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's It's so interesting, there was so much that came up for me to be able to say anything at all, especially since I'd spent years working for somebody with differing beliefs in so many ways. And so I knew that my audience has always been very, so I'm in the US and two party system. And so my audience has always been pretty much split in half, which is not normal, most people's audience is very one sided or another. But for us having been, you know, coming from LA as actors, that's one bubble. But then the online niche that we worked in was another bubble. So for us to say anything either way felt, we knew that it was going to cause conflict, whereas some people, we have family members, they post something, and it's an echo chamber and everybody supportive, we knew that wouldn't be the case for us. So there was additional layers of is this worth it? Am I ready for this and all of that. But in the case of, of what really started to what really kicked it off for me for needing, like when I could no longer just not say anything, was a mod arbery. Now, because the thing for me is, is that when Trayvon Martin had been killed in 2000, I'm not sure if a year now, I want to say 2007. But it might have been 2009, or 11. Either way, whenever that was, I changed my profile photo, all of that, and I was just, nothing has changed. Nothing has changed. But I didn't know what to say. So all I did, and I come across it on Twitter, so nobody else was talking about it yet. And I literally did not know what to say but needed to say something. So all I did was I just posted a status update on Facebook, just with his name, literally just his name, because that's all I could say I just needed to acknowledge it. And I didn't want to color quote boxes. So people that knew commented and it kind of a conversation started. But then it was obviously pandemic. And I was also pregnant. And I am I have and I don't mean this in a whatever I have, like St like levels of patients. And I but that's not like a self descriptive thing. That's what other people do. I have so many kids and work from home and all the things I have a ton of patients. It's just it's just honestly probably some personality defect where I'm just really slow to react to things and it looks like patients and that's why other people would say that. Well, anyway, what I'm saying is what am I saying? How did I go there? I'm lost.
You said you have a lot of patience. And you're talking about you. The name escapes me. Let me just look back on our transcripts. You said Trey Trajan Martin or Trayvon Martin. Trayvon Martin, Trayvon Martin. Yes.
Okay. Oh, pandemic got it? Yes, got it. Okay, now I'm ready. Okay. So I have all of this patients, however, with the pandemic, and pregnancy pregnancy, the patient's goes, I'm just, I'm just a normal mortal level of patients when I'm pregnant. So pregnant pandemic ahmaud, arbery. And then George Floyd. And it was just like, I'm done, I'm done. Something has to something has to be so my own personal capacity to not say anything was shot. So then it became, well, what do I say? If I don't know what to say? What am I comfortable saying? How can I show up and create this conversation when not only am I not an expert? But there are so many people with sound bites? Who, who think they are experts. So it wasn't just the consideration of what do I say it's, am I ready to deal with all of these inevitabilities? Because I don't know Ken does is everybody else able to predict how people will respond to things like how their audience will or won't respond? I don't know, but I know that I could. So how, how could I do that? And so it was a combination. The answer is the combination of you know, I guess the strategy piece that I would talk about in the masterclass so when I created the masterclass it was just, okay, I see a lot of people are not doing this or are silent because they don't know what to do. So here here's, you know, here's three steps to doing it. This is what this is just what works. Yeah. And then the other piece would be having that that support system of people that would go hey, if things go sideways on your wall, I can step in like Knowing that I wasn't alone and having to explain educate. That was the other part is knowing that I wasn't going to have to do it by myself. So I had friends that were like, just tagged me in, I'll show up.
Oh, that's so important because there was a situation where I did speak up for something that I knew that I wasn't an expert in. However it felt, and I thought about it a lot before I even posted it. And then I got a some backlash from someone who I have no idea how they managed to write on my wall, because my privacy settings let you know, for friends only, but lo and behold, there was someone there. And I remember feeling like really taking aback and I, at the same time. I knew not to retaliate, because I know this person was hurting. And they probably just chose me as their outlet that day. And then there were some friends who chimed in not to defend me per se, like, it's kind of like, oh, you know, leave me alone? Like it was that? Yes, but not in a way that was so obvious, but just kind of like providing more of a kind of like, constructive contribution, I guess where it wasn't so obvious one side, like, Oh, we're taking make a side on this, right? Yeah. So you're right, like having people in your corner, especially if you're about to post something that you know, could go sideways, because of the nature of it is so sensitive, can actually really help to help you access that courage to even post it? Very much. So, yeah, for sure. So you've had your personal experiences with this. And so you develop those three steps from your lived experiences? Sounds like,
yeah, just it's just a combination of, I'd found myself giving the same. Okay, here's how to do it. Here's why you need to do it. I just felt like I said the same thing a couple of times. And it just made sense to record it.
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess if we're going to go through it kind of fruit. There are a couple of questions. I do want to ask you just to make it like super clear for those of us who are listening right now. So what would be your first answer to the question? You know, something's going on. But what if you don't know what to say? But you want to say something? What would you say?
Sometimes saying it just that clearly, is enough. Sometimes the simplest thing is just that thing. So in the case of of ahmaud, arbery, I just wrote just his name. But I've had seen other people go, I want to discuss this, this is an issue, this weighs on me, I don't have a solution. But I wanted to create space on it. Or I wanted to just note that this is something I'm learning about. I think often, especially as entrepreneurs, who do have expertise people go I don't have it in this thing, though, so I can't talk about it. And that's not true. It's just, it's showing up, I guess with what might be humility around it, to not expect yourself to be an actual leader on it, but to create, be willing to create the conversation because that in itself can be very daring.
Yeah, it is very daring, especially when I can appreciate why there are so many of us who are like, I want to do something, but I don't think I'm qualified to hold space. And what would you what would you say to you know, people like us who think that like, yes, I want to help. But I don't know if I'm qualified to hold the space. Like, we know, we want more spaces to hold conversation like this. But who are we to do that? Right. So what would you say to us?
I think it's such a funny thing, that those of us who care so much, who recognize our lack of qualifications are the ones that tend to be quieter, and yet the people without qualification at all are the loudest and that causes harm. So sometimes it's just a matter of going okay, I just have to be a voice here. Weighing weighing the potential for. I mean, okay, honestly, the only reason why most people don't do it, myself included is fear, right? But fear isn't a great reason not to say that fear doesn't have so many other potential ramifications, right? Instead of leaning into fear. That obviously is important to acknowledge. But if it's just fear, and the potential for impact or helping others are other people feeling seen, or other people knowing where your heart is on something, then as a business owner, who's Run by mission intention purpose, it just makes, it just seems almost like a necessity to figure out how to do it within your own bounds of comfort and stretching the comfortable a little bit at a time.
Yeah, that that is so true. I mean, we grow by expanding our comfort zones. I personally am not someone who subscribes to the idea of leaping outside of one's comfort zone, because I see everything through a trauma sensitive lens. So as a trauma survivor, that's actually very unsafe to do. Personally. However, that's not always the case for everyone. But yes, you're right, is that humility that we have? Like, look, I may not have all the right answers, but I'm committed to trying to find some answers. And you know, it's kind of like inviting people along for the journey, not inviting people for clear cut answers, because there aren't clear cut answers for sensitive topics, right? There's incredible nuance that all of us will perceive differently, based on our lived experiences, our identities, right? So there's just so much and so it's nice to have, like, even though there isn't a step by step that you do you have some steps that can be taken. Yeah, out of order.
Yeah, one thing that one thing I like to do as well is, is I will save when I see because there are experts, especially this on Instagram, there's beautiful experts in every field that create graphics, like swipe through graphics that explain all sorts of things. So I love to find those as well. Because sometimes it's just easier to especially if you use Facebook is just to download them give credit, but share them on to Facebook. And sometimes you can just let an expert speak for you. I like to find the ones that have their sources cited and all of that I like to you know, dot the i's and cross the T's. But that's another way that utilizing somebody else's expertise can be really helpful.
Yeah, I completely agree with that. Because sometimes there are no there are things that I want to say. But I can't encapsulate it in such a way where it actually comes across as succinct and eloquent. And there's a expert that can absolutely do that. And they have the most moving carousel on Instagram. And so what I tend to do, and something that I learned from you as well is when you share it, share why you're sharing it, because at least then it doesn't feel like it's such a passive thing that you've done. But even though you're not the one to speak on it, you're the one to shine a light somewhere else. But you put in a little part of yourself, though, as to why you're sharing it. Because that will indicate to your audience, you know why it matters to you and therefore, to them? Especially if they're the ones on the receiving end of the sensitive topic, like whatever is happening in the world. Right? So absolutely cite your sources, shine light on experts and just chime in with why you're doing it. Yeah. Oh, gosh, okay, there are so many different directions that this conversation can go. But do you have any, of course, anonymized? Do you have any kind of lessons that you've learned along the way, whether it's from your own experiences like during this navigation of, you know, navigating during sensitive times with your content, or maybe a client of yours again, you can totally anonymize this, that you'd like to share with us there just so that we can learn because I feel like so many of these things that we're talking about right now, are so underground, because there's so much potential for it to kind of blow up, you know, and be like, oh, gosh, I didn't even want to invite all of this in, I didn't want invite in all of these opinions, and these judgments, shame, and it can feel really vulnerable to be in a position to speak on stuff like this. And have that fear of being canceled, like, you know, being a part of canceled culture, which I personally am not a subscriber of, but do you have any things that you'd like to share with us around like lessons learned from what you've witnessed? Or? Or what you've experienced along the way? Yes, I
mean, this is I was thinking of, I have a couple of examples. One, interesting, so I have a client who her message was deeper than what she was what she was saying. It was far deeper, but she didn't feel comfortable to talk about the other parts. And it took honestly a year for her to finally just get so fed up with her shelf that she started talking about these deeper bits and and these are identity, religion, like so very, very potentially controversial and there was so much she had to overcome. But that shift made the rest of her work makes so much more sense to the audience. And so that that's just the a great example of a deepening of the message. And for her, it's very much still in process, it doesn't mean also that once you start talking about it, sometimes it can feel like a little rubber band, so you're gonna stretch it, but unless you hold it there, it's still gonna, it's still gonna come back that you're still it's like this constant. I don't know, I don't know what you would call that sensation. So it's not always a very quick jumped ship to leave. It can be more gradual and something that you're consistently Oh, I thought I was going to be comfortable by now. And I'm still not right. Something that I had happened recently. This is I might, how do I explain this? The the, the shortest version of this is there was a situation on social is sort of a comedy of errors, where I was completely misunderstood. However, by intention on something, however, I don't know who saw it. Only one person mentioned it to me. But it was mentioned to me this situation by a couple of other clients who didn't, who didn't know anything, hadn't seen. Anything that impacted me, but they just seen it right. So I go, Okay, there's a situation where clear, I know that I've been misunderstood. I don't know who it's hurting if it's hurting anybody? Do I say something, which will then attract attention to the situation that's been deleted? By what do I and so for me, I go, Okay. Well, my I mean, I have our values literally on the wall. So kindness, integrity, creativity are kind of the top three. And for me, it was just the integrity in the kindness thing. I could not say anything and go, well, hopefully people know my heart and know where I stand. But that, but silence generally does more harm than good. And I don't appreciate it in reverse other people that the to silence, like, Okay, so now I have to say something, I have to draw attention to something, and I have to share my beliefs on something. And I have to do it in a way that doesn't cause harm, and takes responsibility.
That's a tall order right there. Right, and
then I, and then I go, and I have to, you know, have the capacity for the responses. So I, you know, I did, I did that. And it was and I got a you know, I got DMS are like thank you so much for that. Um, but I also had somebody do a post about my posts, um, ma mocking it. Because Because something that I've discovered is that, especially when you identify a new lead with your values, they're not going you're never going to be understood by everybody. But when you lean into them, you kind of have to really accept being misunderstood. So people will completely misunderstand my kindness for just weakness, or, which is fascinating to me, because that's not how I view it at all. But it's, it's I mean, the, the peril, the, what happens with visibility, because I had to go, Okay, this is a very new level of influence, right? To go to know that something that I've done on social accidentally or not has an impact, and that people do expect or want to hear from me on this. And then to know that that no matter what I do, other people are going to make fun of it. agree disagree. There is so I feel like I gave a positive example, but then also like this is, this is what can happen with I don't even have that much visibility, but I guess there's enough. And I've worked with enough clients that there are people that are watching us and they want to know, where we stand on things, and they they hope that we'll be accountable. Should we miss that up?
Yes. Oh, gosh. That mockery, that's something I can also relate to as well. And it's like you said, there are times where we just have to accept the fact not just a possibility, but a genuine fact. There are going to be some people who just won't see your intention and they are Don't you take your intention and twist the impact into something negative. And that's not something we can control, we will do our best to reduce harm, but we can never 100% Fully prevent harm, because we don't know what other people perceive as harm as well. So it's not to say that we want to harm people. That's not the case, that our intentions can only go so far. And we just have to realize that, okay, I may have the best intention is all the wealth, but sometimes that's just not going to be enough for some. And that's just how it is. Right? Yes. And it's tough to admit that because of course, you want to do our best and you want to help as many people as possible and kind of like, especially for us, like sensitive souls, that the empath as well as like, oh, one like, you know, we feel everyone's emotion. So, so loudly, so amplified. Yeah, it's really tough. And I appreciate that you also mentioned about having the capacity for responses as well, because that's a responsibility that we need to that we need to have as someone who's standing up stepping up for some things like, we can't just say something and go, it's like, no, no, we got to say something and kind of like, stand there. Yeah, hold that space for whatever may be coming up for people. That's not easy, either.
No, it's not. That's why I do I do recognize I go that, that, that strong, the same things that will generate the most leads are the same that can also require the most capacity?
Yes, they do. And that's why, you know, this is why it's all about sustainable visibility and capacity all the time. Yes, because there's just so much that is not accounted for. And that's where it can have that crash and burn sort of feeling when we've done something too fast or too soon. And we didn't have the support or the systems to kind of like, uphold ourselves in the response process from our audience and our clients as well. And our peers even. Yeah, it's a lot. So. So it's actually what we've gone through, you know, we've meandered quite a lot around this topic. And for those who are listening right now, they may be thinking, Okay, I see what's possible, the goods and the bads and the in betweens, where can I get started? Or what's one key takeaway that you recommend that we take away? You know, from this conversation today,
I want to recommend thinking about what is it that you haven't been saying that you would like to say something about? And consider, what's the first step, I generally find that current events will just present me with a situation where the first step becomes more clear. But if you've considered it and started to get comfortable with the idea that you will say something about it, that makes it easier.
Yeah, so that's an invitation for all of us to kind of like just go back through our mind, our memories or anything that may, you may have kind of like, sat on the sidelines for that you might want to take, you know, what was the in really racist? What's it called the baton, that taking the baton? Right, I was gonna say pass a torch but but the whole baton thing, it kind of indicates teamwork, which is something that we need more of, you know, collaboration and teamwork, because these aren't things that we should go for alone. In my opinion, it's something to definitely invite others to be a part of, and take it in turns. supporting each other and taking the time of speaking, as well. So yes, yes to that invitation, if not something in our past and looking at current events and seeing what sparks something in you, because I'm similar to you, in the sense that sometimes these situations present themselves to me and I'm like, okay, how am I responding to this? Why am I responding this way? What is the lesson here? Yeah, very much. So. Yes. And taking that step. So that's our first part. And of course, we've, we've mentioned your master class quite a lot in this conversation, which I think is going to be a fantastic guidance for those who are like, Okay, I want to do this, I just want to kind of like hear a bit more about how we can do that. So share all the links where can we find you in the master class on socials where we can put this you in real time and to support you and all of
those things? Oh, my goodness. So I legitimately have no idea where the masterclass link is, but I will find it and then I will give you the link but what else I'll do is I'll post it in our Facebook group. That link is easy. That's group dot. What's good with to use.co group dot what's good.co That's our Facebook group, which is But the home of everything. And that's just the easiest way to find us. But yeah, I will post that masterclass link in there. Because it's always it's always it's always relevant.
Yes, it's a timeless master class, which is perfect. And no worries about the precise your L so for everyone who's listening like what was that your eldest? No worries got all of you in the in the show notes section of this episode so no worries I'll make sure to post the to the Facebook group and you know to the master class link when I find that link. So no worries Gotcha.
I'm safe person that's scrounging for a pencil and a napkin. Well listen to like a podcast, why the link is always in the notes. I don't know why I do that.
It's just Well, some people it's kind of like, when someone asked me to spell something. I need to write it down. realizing it, because when I verbalize that I'm like, I would do so bad if there was spelling bees. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's a thing in the UK to have spelling bee. I don't think that we have spelling tests. Okay. I don't think we have spelling bees,
though. That's interesting.
Yeah. So it's study these was a thing here. I would so not sign up. That I'm like, but if I can spell it on a whiteboard, sure. No problem. But yes, thank you. So as we start wrapping up, Sasha, I've got two final questions for you. Are you ready?
Yes. All right.
So number one is what makes you a quiet rebel.
The fact that none of my work comes easily or naturally or, or with comfort, everything around visibility and making a difference is feels very bold and scary and unnatural for me. So finding ways to do it, that work for me. And yes, expanding my comfort so that I can have a greater impact. I feel like that's why I'm a quiet rebel. Ooh, I see we've
ever had a guest like speak from it from that perspective as well. I love asking this question. It's like everyone's interpretation and how there's no one size fits all definition. So thank you so much for sharing yours. And my final question for you is this. What is one weird fact or fun story about you that no one else knows on the internet.
I say that I placed in the state of California in high jump. Oh, I did all of the sprints, and jumps all the way through. So for seven years, so through junior college, so I could pull vault and high jump and triple jump and all of the jobs.
Wow, that is so cool. Like I'm trying to visualize what all of those types of things means. My mind is go straight to the Mario and Sonic the Olympic Games on Wii, the 2000 version. And they're all like, you know, the track and field types of exercises. And yes, I remember doing all those and my character degree that Very Nice. Yeah, my character but my actual body in real life going to, you know, doing gymnastics, you know, in our PE lessons. No. Look, I would always knock over the boss. So thank you so much for sharing that fact about you. That's so so cool. All right. So all know, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast today. Sasha, thank you so so much for just sharing your experiences and that one in particular, that you're sharing your experiences, because that has, it's been clear to me that your experiences have really informed the way that you show up and the way you guide your clients and lead conversations that aren't always the most comfortable. And so just so so appreciate you sharing all of your experience and wisdom with us today.