Hello Kansas deflector listeners. Thanks for tuning in this week. I'm Reporter Rachel meat bro. And today's story is a podcast from a Monday, April 17. Trip to Wichita with editor in chief Sherman Smith. We spoke with four members of progeny, which is an organization working to transform the juvenile justice system. Their goal here in Kansas is to close the remaining state youth prison and to shift power to communities most impacted by these systems. We spoke with Markita Atkins, who the executive director of progeny his campaign team, along with Yosef Presley, Desmond, Brian White into Tyler Williams. Thanks for listening. So, I mean, again, what have you seen this legislative session?
So of course, you know, they, we did not get passed to the Senate for the house, Bill 2075, which is our fines and fees, wanting to eliminate some of the fines or fees or just the way that they impact young people. A bill that stood out to me, and I think they just did reform was House Bill 2021. There was some good stuff in there. And then there was some scary stuff in there that needed to be taken out, like holding kids and incarcerated for longer times without them go into court first, that kind of stuff. So I was happy that they refile. They did a little reform on that bill and change the language, but then they put it into another bill. And so we have to follow that language, because there's trying to slip it in any way that they can. And we really need to get out of I've been thinking about this for the past two days, especially what what happened to that young man in Kansas City, was the message we're sending to young people working so hard to put them in situations that are not healthy for them. Like what is the message that we're sending that our kids are expendable, and they're not. And so I constantly go back to restorative justice. We need to find ways to keep our kids out of jail instead of trying to do legislation lift legislation that puts our kids in jail for a longer periods of time.
And you just read constantly this legislative session like lawmakers saying, Oh, what was it 113? Whatever. The one passed in 2016 was a US
Senate Bill 360 703 cities.
So what we've heard consistently is that Oh, didn't work. It's not effective. We need to reform this reform. I mean, like, do you think they're doing enough with that, or?
I think that when it comes to things that our young people need that are transitioning out of the system, some of those things went away with three Senate Bill 367. They need those cushions back. But I believe that Senate Bill 367 works. I believe that the reform that they're talking about, again, it's about putting kids in makin Joe, and we don't want kids in jail, and they act like they have no place to put kids when young people get in trouble. But the deal is, is that we don't want it that's prison is prison working for these kids. You know, we don't we want to move away from that. And so every time I see people go work, and try to demolish that bill or change that bill, it makes me sick to my stomach because our kids are not throwaways. Like we need to be doing better. And I want you guys to speak. Because you guys have been impacted?
Please the question, I just want to make sure I'm asking correctly.
Oh, yeah, we were just talking. I don't know if you've seen it. But at the very beginning of the session, a bunch of lawmakers were like saying stuff about us be I'm gonna 367 Yeah, I know, I keep mixing up the numbering on that. But they kept saying like, this is not effective. We need to do more, we need to like stricter measures, that sort of thing. I mean, what have you seen in your own personal experience with that, you
know, when I think about the money that could be invested in the community, I feel like it's not being used effectively, to create that impact. You know, to my knowledge, there's like 40 million in the fund. And as I look around the community, as things that could restore a use, future, I don't see many of those resources, especially to those that needed the most. And I think, you know, as far as legislators to want to change that bill, in something that's going to further take, I think that that's, you know, immoral and wrong. And, you know, we're not actively thinking about the futures of you know, the youth which will be, you know, the leaders upcoming So for now, preparing them and putting them in a position to be most effective in every way. You know, what, what does that leave the future and being able to go into pica, and testify over fines and fees that gave us a firsthand look Abell The legislature as it is today. And, you know, being able to go up there and testify, put in my mind in as well as some of the youth leaders to conversation about what it would be like to be in the other position, what would you like? Would it be like for us to step up and be legislatures and, you know, just continue to learn more about the process of policy and even, you know, changing policy as well. So that's my vision of like legislature this year. And I'm just looking forward to how we can continue to push this bill. And you know, it got to committee and kind of got stopped. And that was heart wrenching in itself, because we put in so much work and so much research to prove this is a proven issue in our community, and this is a proven way to fix it would not even get a chance to have that voted on. That hurt.
Yeah, that's fine to be Hallsville. That you touched on and what the Senate Bill 367. Two, I think that. So I had a thought in my head, having accessibility to the funds. So those RFPs when they go out, I don't think that like small nonprofits, grassroots organizations, know how to get to that funding. And I think they also complicated and sometimes doing these, these grants and getting these funds can be complicated. And if you're a small boots on the ground organization, we're blessed to have we all we write grants. But when you have small boots to the ground organization, the in your, you're supposed to think in the mindset of the grant grantor, which is, you know, rich and has money and have backing, sometimes you don't understand the language that they're speaking in. And when you are boots to the ground, the outcomes because it's data driven. When you're thinking about outcomes, a lot of the outcomes that you're doing this work, can't be put into data the way that they think, how do you quantify waking up in the middle of the night to go pick a kid that's walking down the middle of the street? How do you quantify, you know, putting somebody in your house because they have no other place to go? How do you quantify that. And so I keep thinking to myself and out I watched that session when they were all, you know, testifying about Senate Bill 367. And it just made me sad. It because our kids too often we want to address the moon instead of tending to the infection and systemic issues that impact our young people, the school to prison pipeline, the trafficking that was heavy in Kansas, the foster care to prison pipelines that exist. We are not attending to the infection that exists in our in our country in general. But we want to put a bandaid on it by shoving their kids to jail and our wound is seeping in. When those kids come back out. Most of the times they have more damage than when they went in.
Seemed like so much of the testimony about juvenile justice reform. And particularly with the foster care system was about the danger that this presents to workers in the foster care system. It seemed like there was never really an emphasis on how do we help the kids for those workers
at the back end, he can speak on that use have just completed a documentary about the foster care to prison pipeline. So experienced. Yeah.
So when I think about that said, we're not doing enough, putting what we've been doing hasn't been working, you know, so we're spending more money to send these people, these kids to jail than we are, we could be using it in another way. So we're just not doing enough. They're always working. Let's try a new way. That's what I say.
And when we think about accessibility to mental health, like literally, it's hard for young people or anybody to get accessibility for mental mental health right now. So we want to put more money in jail because I mean, into the jail system, because the kids are acting out, instead of putting more money into mental health and making sure that they get the services they that they need to heal. And when you think about a kid being bounced around from house to house to house, my family, Foster's my brother's a foster care father, you know, and I see what these babies go through. It is gonna add up, they're going to act up. And so we need to do better by again, helping them instead of throwing them in jail, that's not going to help them, you know, and so those babies need to be protected just as much as those workers
because she kind of touched on it a little bit. How they're trying to defend the workers more than the kids. That's kind of more on the task. Force playing Hot Potato they're not they're not accepting the blame. They're sending it here. Oh, it was their fault is their fault. They're not accepting the blame. And then we have a RP centric often you know, We have him, you know, they sat on his back for over 30 minutes, you know, it's terrible. Somebody has to take responsibility for what went on.
And I have a compassion for the fact that he had just lost his grandmother. You know, so it's just, we're not whenever they get up there, and they speak about these young people is dehumanizing. And I think is intentionally dehumanizing. And when we think about the data, and from 2010 to 2020, crime in in youth or youth incarceration across you felt fell by 50%. So when they're talking about this stuff now, and you hear it's almost like a trigger, you know, kids are doing more crime, kids are doing more crime, are they really, because the data doesn't say so.
And we were actually just talking about the Lofton case
in the code. She came up from Louisiana last two. So I gave her like the 32nd version. If you guys could talk just a little bit about what actually happened with the central clotting case.
Cedric Lofton was a 17 year old foster care kid that was happening in the midst of a mental health crisis. And so his foster dad called DCF for his worker didn't know what they can do. And I think the worker was at a town. And so the instruction was to take him to the hospital. And so they call 911. Because they couldn't get him to come in the house, he just wanted to sleep outside. They call 911. And at first, you know, the officers were trying to curse course I'm gonna come. And as soon as he resisted or touched one of them, then it escalated to him going to jail. And so instead of taking him to the hospital, like they were instructed, they took him to JDF. And then at JDF. You know, he's upset, you know, and he was calm. When they put him in the waiting room part, he was totally caught me ask go to the bathroom. And what I don't think people realize, again, the humanity and the human being workers, when they're working with these kids, they talk slick to these kids, they say crazy stuff to these kids, they do. And so we don't really know what he was reacting to, or what they said to him, because there's no audio on the tape. And so he started, you know, tossing stuff around, and they tackled him and sat on him for 30 minutes. And then they said he started snoring. So they thought he went to sleep, they knew damn, well, that kid didn't go to sleep, but it was a death threat. And he got, and there was no prosecution, there was nobody held accountable for his debt. And they created this task force, so that we can assure that it wouldn't happen again. But like I said, 1000 times on that task force, no matter what we do for the future will not undo that this child is dead, and nobody was held accountable.
You rock up, think about you take a few steps back. He seemed to be fine before the police can keep was so you know, please come in there. They're typically demanding, you know, they want you to follow their instructions, you know that Pi, they probably said the wrong word and probably triggered him like you need to go in the house or some, you know, that. They're they're taught to control the situation to come in, you know, they're, you know, they're dealing with robbers and murderers all day, they didn't assess the situation. Hey, this kid, he's been to this, his grandma just died. This scenario this was going on, you know, they just came in, immediately lied on him said he was on Ketu
that meet in the media. So when they put it out into the news, they said he was on drugs, which was a lie. They came out on a task force that one of the officers went and questioned on the paperwork, which would immediately if they marked it with it, he would have gone to the hospital. And so they switch the answer so that he would stay in jail. Nobody was held accountable for that. It's just tragic. And he it was wait a week before his 18th birthday. So he wasn't about to be out of the system. Well,
so I mean, I know there's a task force now. But could this happen again today? Are there any meaningful measures in place now?
They're trying to change some policies, but a lot of the stuff hasn't hit yet. And absolutely, it can't happen again. And do I think they wouldn't be more careful? I think they will want to. But this I mean, we see it happen every day all across the country. How, sorry, how youth of color are treated. Let's just be real. It's devaluing. And your crime is your skin color.
One thing that stood out to me was morals. Sheep saw right after the incident, she retired. Magically, she's just retired after only like 1617 years, you know, she's young. So that kind of stood out to him. Like, why should the time some, you know, usually what they say when there's smoke, there's fire? Right? So I mean, I assume there's some, you know, after that things came out about the mind, not telling the truth changing answers and things like that, you know, when they said that he was on drugs, and the coroner comes out and says that there's no drugs in the system. That all stood out to me. So there's smoke, there's fire. So there's something under
those 2019 race. That was just that just last year from Las Vegas last year.
In 2020. But yeah, so we've just keeping like a lot about, you know, we have to do something, there's a problem. But has the legislature actually done anything you think?
No, not not particularly yet. So one thing I was looking for, to do change, it was the use of force, because on that video said the graphing was in Excel, all they needed to do was just close the door and allow him to beat on walls and get that frustration out. Instead, you know, they they left, they opened the door and went in there and restrained him in the cell. So that's, that's, I'm looking for the use of force policy to be changed.
And then I think one of the things that did get through was, what was it they didn't word change? And then they also, did they extend the detention limits? Or is that just I think that was voted on, but I'm not sure if that passed? I need to look.
Yeah, I have to I can't answer that safely, right now. So we'll have to look and see.
First, people like us who follow this closely for the living people, like you follow this because you have a stake in it, can't keep track of what they're doing and move things around.
So again, it's the same thing like we were just talking hot potato. It's intentional, it's intentional. It's no, please. It's intentional. To me, it's intentional, to make the community feel like they're doing something. But will something actually be done? And then how for how long? You know, if they actually pass any of the things that we're supposed to be coming up on another meeting soon? Yeah. If they, if there's a actually
one thing that stands out to
me right, now you got it. It's a website. Yeah.
One thing that stands out to me is, Kansas is one of the only states that prioritizes their foster care system. So I think that's another thing that needs that needs to change, because we're continuing to try and the old way, let's try something new. You know, why is our foster care system privatized? You know, let's, let's get that let's change that. Because you know, now DCF, can point fingers, you know, if it wasn't privatized, they could, they would have to take responsibility. Now they can say, Oh, it was the same friends that say, oh, St. Francis squat, always use those for, you know, this nonprofit sizes. So we can put some responsibility on some people. You know, we're one of the only states that does that.
And we keep hearing that juvenile and Crisis Intervention Center is that's the big solution. There's a lot of funding for it. I mean, is that a good idea with that?
That's, that's what I want to see. I want to see that because you know, it's time to try something new is Trump this time to, you know, let's, let's let's, let's be for community, let's get some in the community to help these kids.
So they have this dashboard.
Oh, that's cool. I forgot about them, actually. Because they said they were still working on it. It was still like the sum
has been reduction, the money that they had in this accounts. I mean, previously, they actually swept 25 million general fund, and the whole point of theoriginal pills to take all the money and we're saving for putting kids in jail previously, and use this on programming. And then they never allocated and I think this may be the first time that they're actually using some of that money. You know, it almost seems like this was set up to fail.
I think it was, and I think, I think probably me, I'm going to I think progeny raising awareness around Senate Bill 367. And Kansas Appleseed raising awareness around 60s. Bill, Senate Bill 367 is a lot of the reason why they are starting to release some of those funds because people are paying attention to it now. You know, progeny wrote a whole report on sit around Senate Bill 367. It's us on our website. And what if we went and interviewed young people across this across the city to see what would they do with this money if they had this money and we turn it into a report. This is this is what you then people are telling you, this is what they need. And this is what they want to feel safe to be happy in this community. And so it's really super important that that money be accessible to be able to move. So they can't say it's not working, like Desmond was talking about earlier.
So like, like you said, it's set up to Phil, I feel like they're doing this just to say, Oh, look, we tried, it didn't work. But they're, they're not trying hard enough, they're just doing this little bit, you know,
they're good at it. I like to, you know, share, like just on the innovative programming the organizations like Dr. progeny are doing, for instance, work to life was uses spoken word and music to help battle mental health. A lot of times, it's hard for you to talk to counselors, so we're using our God given abilities to give him a platform to express themselves and an authentic manner. And, you know, that's self care, you know, taking the time and being able to work through your emotions. And that's important, because it's, you know, sixth, seventh, eighth grade, ninth grade, those are important times and your body is changing, your mind is changing. So, being able to have that platform has shown to be impactful. And I'm looking forward to where that program will go as well. But, again, that takes the support of those that say they want to invest in you. These are good programs to do so, as well as me and UserInfo are part of a program called blacks at a future where we're looking to implement a comprehensive behavioral fund that will invest in a youth center that will provide the mental health resources, in activities and things that you need when they needed the most. You know, we hope to put that through the city, county and state as far as in the budget. But again, these are we think about Senate Bill 367, and how they say that they want to build these centers across Kansas. And we believe that this is a way that, you know, legislators can get behind and if not at least give their input to where to see how we can help create this in our communities.
And speaking on average, it was 125,000 to $140,000 a year to incarcerate a child. So who benefits you know, if you're making $125,000 $240,000 ahead. It benefits them to keep kids incarcerated, it benefits them to stand up and say this is the reason why we make kid gels that benefits them and say, This is the reason why kids need to be in jail longer. You see what I'm saying? And it costs on average, what 10 $12,000 A year to educate a child. That's how much money they put into the school system. But in jail, it's hundreds of 1000s of dollars, that is crazy.
Come up with these programs and talked about writing grants, it's just not possible to meet with the state of Kansas cannot figure out how to spend this money. It's a choice that they're making.
It's a choice. It's a choice. We went out whenever I was, like I said earlier, when I'm listening to them talk, and you hear it on the news you hear when they get up there and speak crime, our kids are doing more crime, or kids are crying kids and cry kids are more violent, you know, but I asked myself, who did they learn it from? What world are we given them? And then we want to hold them accountable for what we're pushing down their throats. Our kids have accessibility to things that we never had accessibility to when we were younger. So I've said this in the past, but it's like, when I was a kid, I knew what was going on in my neighborhood. I might have known a little bit about what was going on, maybe around the city. I knew what was going on around the state if I we talked about in school. And on a world level. It was cognitive dissonance. I didn't I really didn't know what was going on around the world. Our kids get all of that in a squirrel in a squirrel unless the
officer was called the kids super criminals. A couple years back when we had that meeting.
I mean, it was called him
super criminals. It was articles. Maybe,
which totally
Yeah. I know Wilson was leading that. That meeting, but I'm not sure if he was the one who called them super criminals.
Yeah, it was offensive.
So are we still seeing that same narrative now with lawmakers? I feel like
that's how they you kid. You you this super criminal. That's what they that's what they call this. These young kids coming out. It was
in our article, January 2014. Between one and it was
it was kind of sad. Seeing which officer it was because I've sat on a panel and before around kids. It wasn't Wilson was. One police official in an interview with the eagle last year said he worries that we're live streaming of low level juvenile offenders is turning on generation of super criminals. But all through the justice system because actions have no meaningful comp. It was Sofia, which was surprising.
Okay, so we've talked a lot about like legislature reactions. What do you see right now, you know, just do community work and all that, like, are kids reacting to this sort of thing? Are they aware of like, well, lawmakers are saying,
I know the young people in our space are, because that's I mean, we, they focus on policy, they focus on things that are going on around them. And we want young people to have an understanding of how systems work. By design, di is based for young people to understand their civic engagement through entrepreneurship and lack of investment in communities. And, you know, the juvenile justice system, we choose those three things because they impact marginalized communities to hardest and poor communities, to artists. And so I know young people are having the conversations, they're aware of what's going on, I don't think they necessarily pay attention to the legislator right now, unless they're in a space where they are talking about it, or whatsoever. But I think it's super important that we get more kids engaged around this kind of stuff, because it's impacting them. It's impacting them in major ways. And so they should have a voice. And they should be aware, they should understand why they don't get diversion, they should understand, you know, why if they take a plea deal, you know why they can't, they should not take a plea deal. Because you can't change that. And it impacts them for the rest of their life. And most of the times parents choose to take a plea deal with their kids, because they can't afford an attorney. And the public defender recommends that they take the plea deal, because it's the easy way out, and they don't have to go to go to court over it. They take a plea deal there none. And it's sad, because that one plea deal, to keep them out of jail is most likely going to sign them up to be in jail at some point in their life. Because then they're on probation. And then they put these kids on probation, five year probation. So in five years, you're expecting a kid to not make a mistake, let's be real,
can do pay the fines and fees and you stay on probation perpetually
you stay on, it's the same. One of our youth leaders was on an ankle monitor last year that he could not afford. And they he got arrested and put in jail because he was not paying for his ankle monitor. And as soon as they he got out of jail, they put him right back on the ankle monitor that he could not afford. Well,
if he ever wants to talk, that is truly not surprising, I guess.
You it's how they disrupt these young people's lives over and over again and expect perfection from these young people that have made mistakes. And usually when these young people are going back to jail is not because they committed a crime. It's because they did something on their probation that they deemed a violation, whether they couldn't make it to their parole officer, whether they what you were driving and you didn't have a light over your tag. That cost him three months in jail. He lost his job. He just got a job as spirit lost his job losses, his apartment lost everything.
Yeah, what they do is they um, they they'll sit sitting there for like a short period of time and then they'll come back out they'll restart your probation and also give you a longer period of time because now they can like for example they can they can sustain your probation and make you do like a month and say oh, are you ready to come out and do what you're supposed to do? And then restart your probation. And they can they can do that again, how many times they want to until until your sentence until they run out of time. You can no longer incarcerated
I mean as Sherman's favorite question right now, if you could wave a magic wand toward this makes it sound so stupid. But if you could wave a magic wand and you have he in charge of reforming this system, what would you want? Like what would you ideally have the legislature to you to?
I would say more investment and youth mediation services restorative based practice This is as like the first option for you. Like Missouri model, Colorado, bring us on like that to Kansas.
What is that model? Like? What would that look like?
victim offender mediation, having community investment, not only just outside, but also in the mediation and problem solving.
We talked about all the time in our, in our blacks, the future cohort, we want to see what like he said, the Colorado model we want to take after the California model, you know, they're they're no longer incarcerating youth and using fines and probation and all that to hold it over their head, you know, they're trying to different models. So I will watch closely for what they're doing, you know, seeing how it's working.
And you said, you were in that meeting, too.
So it's a program and you know, what I like to see changes to see that big investment in the community. You know, as we walk, like, as we look around, right, now, we're more so on the north side of town, right. But if I walked down the streets, like, there's nothing that gives me a sense of pride for my community. And I think that's important as we're bringing up a new generation to have pride in their community. Because if you don't feel disrespected, but I think that's a culture shift. And although that starts with the community as well, we need the state to be there as well, because we don't want to be isolated inside of our own community. We're already are that you know, just being an outlier in Kansas. So anything outside the box did, you know helps the community will be seen as radical enough believe that we have to continue to invest in a community to be able to educate ourselves about how to change the situation that we're in. And that comes through investment that comes through time that comes through money that comes through education, and I think collectively, with the right knowledge and energy, like that's how we begin to see change. But if we're not aware to what we need to know and be able to show up into pica and create that change. Things will happen as they have been happening, and I believe it's safe to say that what's been happening right now isn't working. So most definitely have to be able to implement new ideas and gentlemen, they use voice into their story as well to figure out what the future should look like.
