I think architecture is really a super business we have possibilities to do things that are
imaginable. Also, today I have the honor of conversing with Edward Francois, the distinguished successor of Edwin Francois Mazel. Edward, embodies the roles of a designer, architect and urban planner having refined his craft at institutions such as local national disposal, and lip call nationals this point HRC Moreover, he has bestowed His knowledge upon students and the esteemed national landscape and scores of OSI in class. In recognition of his profound contribution to the field of architecture. He was bestowed with the title of Designer of the Year in 2011, and further honored as an international fellow by the RBA. By 2019. His influence and innovation had catapulted him into the top 100 Architects globally, as per the rankings of Domus magazine. So Edward is celebrated for his dynamic and spirited approach to life and work. He is profoundly influenced by authenticity, permeating through aspects of gastronomy, interpersonal relationships, and of course, his architectural endeavors. Through his illustrious career, Edward has graced the lecterns of globally recognized institutions such as the AIA in London, the ESA in Paris, the Design Academy of Eindhoven, where he has been sharing his wisdom and insights. The global community continues to laud the uniqueness and exemplary quality of his work. His creations have found permanent home in prestigious establishments such as the center Pompidou, the Canadian Centre for Architecture, then the New York, Guggenheim, and the v&a in London, cementing his legacy as a luminary in the architectural domain. So this was an absolutely fantastic conversation, that one, it was truly inspiring. And we go into a lot of depth really the kind of three phases of his career where, first of all, he started off as a very young architect working on big scale projects, not the kind of work that perhaps you'd know, know him for now. But that's where he really kind of, you know, cut his teeth, as it were, he learned his craft, he knew how to put buildings together, he knew how to work with complex demanding clients. And there was a whole world of just kind of really learning the craft of architecture and leading large scale projects from an early age, then we move on to talking about the second phase, which was a lot more risky in its approach, but kind of intellectually and more where Edwards heart was, which is where he started to explore much deeper kind of conceptual and theoretical ideas, that perhaps meant that the money making side of architecture was postponed for a bit in order for him to develop this kind of language, and ideas or where he wanted to go. And it was quite a long phase in his career, but he was incredibly masterful with being able to take ideas and market them and publicize them. And his own kind of personal brand and personality. And his ability to communicate, really demonstrated how he was kind of creating a seductive world, if you like what people wanted to know who he was, he was gaining a reputation in France, and becoming a very prominent personality as a thought leader and as a creative force. And the third phase was actually then started to take these concepts and start making real money from them actually turn them into real built projects. So we talk a lot about, you know, his approach to charging a lot of money and the very direct conversations he will have with clients, how he's not afraid to say no, how he doesn't do dog and pony shows of showing clients, loads and loads of portfolios and work, but rather, is actually very unique in His communication style and the way that he'll engage and tease information out of a client. And I think one of the other things that you better take away from this conversation is a lot of kind of insights and secrets to actually developing and creating a powerful personal brand. So this is a fantastic interview, a real privilege for me to speak with, you know, one of the one of the world's greats, if you like, and just lovely to sit down and speak with Eduardo in his Parisien. Studio, so sit back. Enjoy Edward Francois. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architectures flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment, and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smart practice method.com Or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how we might be able to help you please follow the link in the information and you are welcome to The Business of Architecture, how are you finding new Iron? I'm very good. Thank you an absolute honor to have you on the on the show. You are the principal of Mazon Edo upon Sua. You've got an incredible portfolio of work. There's some really extraordinary projects internationally, in, in France in Paris housing, civic projects, cultural projects, a real diverse portfolio. We're one of the kind of leading practices in France at the moment, I know that you guys were voted in the top 100 architecture practices in in Domus a few years back, you're an international fellow of the RBA, of course, you've lectured internationally, you've lectured here in the UK, as well as in France and, and other other places. And you've really built quite an extraordinary international reputation as a practice. So absolutely amazing to have you here and to be discussing a little bit about this. So I guess my first question is, how did the practice start?
It's a curiosity, I think, because in France, there's a guy who is saying, if you don't have the reference, you won't have the job. And if you don't have the job, you don't have the reference. So it's a circle. Yeah, there's certain moment you have to cut it. So. So I think I did very little things, I did little things for my mother's room. After that. I did to room after that I did a kitchen. Very, very, very, very slow. But at a certain moment, I had clients and it was it's really extremely complex to, to do things because the client, he knows the money, etc. And so at a certain moment, I decided to be totally artist. So I said, I just focus on what I want the client, I don't care. And if I, if I go away bloomer, it's gonna be so good for me. So this how I begin.
So that's, that's a lot of architects struggle to be able to do that, without like, upsetting the clients or losing work. How How, how do you create that relationship with the client, so that they, that they trust you to do what you say is the the right thing if you like?
I think what I'm telling to my student is the problematic data are very interesting in architecture, you keep that for you is not the problematic for the client. For the client, you speak, only zoom on, how it's been, how economy duties, how well it's working, how the parking is a super parking, etc, but you don't speak about your facade. And when I did, the facade of the forgets, I was explaining to the client, the poor admits Hatim up and it's hard to authorization. And so I said, look, the parking is super here. You have the basement. And my assistant says it where you don't speak about the facade so
never have to speak about the facade is there so we can see different said.
But that's that's so interesting. It reminds me of the kind of Mies van der Rohe quote, where he said no, never talk to your client about architecture. Ask them how how.
And they didn't even they don't like factually, when you speak architecture, because factories had hammer because we are doing new things that doesn't exist. So is it working? Is it possible to sell it? How will it cost because when you are dealing with new material, new materiality, new assemblage comb communism, it's not so intuitive how much it will cost. If you're dealing with totally common things. It's obvious for everybody because the amount that is the amount the panel amount. Yeah, so don't speak architecture first.
And how about winning work? So you went from doing kind of little pieces of kitchen and like residential, like now the kind of work that you're doing is, you know, it's the it's the envy of many practices to have that kind of international, very, very
big operations. We are doing a big project for example, in Bordeaux that To 80,000 metre square, and its factory, it's a piece of your business. But in another hand, it's where the only architect of that. So it's a piece of architecture or so. And we are in an area that is UNESCO area. So we're alone and should surely be
amazing. And so that kind of moving from you know, when did you start the practice?
When I was 24? Very young.
Wow,
very young. Curiously, I was an engineer school. And my teacher says to me, yes, we have a problem with a developer. Can you help me? So I was looking to with Cynthia. And I said, we could do that. And that and that, and that and that. So he said that to the developer, and the developer says, Can you send me to guide your students? Towards a piece of a huge development that was 1000? Not 100 102,000. better score.
Right? Wow. Pretty big stuff.
I wasn't architect at this moment. And so the guy, these developer, they are really playing with the money. He said, the PDR is, the students of the guy was controlling the area, I take the student, that's okay. And he said to me, You're my architect. And I wasn't our state, I think I was 24 years old. And so he treats me after that. You're super buddy? Yeah,
you'd won your experience. He built the master. Brilliant. And so that's, that's very young to kind of go out on your own. Did you at any point work for somebody else, or work in another practice?
Little things, but you know, in my hand, I was 24. And when I was doing my practice, I didn't want a teacher to take my head. So I had a lot of different teachers. So at the end, I added I was teach in an incoherent way. Because this does this teacher says that, though I say that there's one thing that at the end, you don't know. And so I had this very huge development. And so I wasn't strong enough to I didn't know what I want. So okay, I'm clever. So I picked in the project was not good. So it wasn't a good project. It takes a certain time to know, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? What is your issue was interesting for you. So this is a second. And so my career was made made on three areas. First areas I have, first beginning, I had a lot and a lot of projects, but I was totally lost. And I have project very big mapping, development in the city of Paris, etc, etc. And I had partners and arriving to a certain moment I said, A, it's not me, it's too difficult. I don't know how to speak with a developer. It's too complex. So I am going to stop, I don't want to build I built when I was 27, iPads, I build something like 100 1000 metal score, right? It's very, very big. So when you do that, you know everything about the details, etc. And so my the second part of my life was, I want to know what I want to do. And so I did the competition, but I didn't want to win the competition. I just want to do a super project building I was building before. So I want to build something very good, but not building for building. And so I began to be very well known. And so media, media, etc. Television. A bit. I didn't build, but in my head, I was saying at the end you have to connect. Yeah, good ideas and building it was the third part of my life. And so I rebuilt very, very interesting things, but very, very small. I did a building in juvie. It is it is the sheath or Mojito. A small housing for holidays, which is very small. I did, I think six unit. So it's very small, but very beautiful. They are in there in the greeneries in front of the forest. And so I was very happy to do that. And curiously it multiplies by two by two by two by two by two. And now, I'm doing very, very big commission, curiously, has been before. Now it's interesting. Yeah,
well, that's, that's, that's an amazing career progression. So the early days of your career, you were doing big stuff, but it wasn't really. But it wasn't the way it wasn't your kind of artistic mark on it as such, and then you went into the world of kind of doing competitions and more theoretical, and having ideas that were being publicly spoken about. And, and that would have meant, I'm guessing, then that you would have stopped doing some of that big development work, in order to kind of focus on ideas, and then eventually, then you started to actually make these ideas come real, but it was on a small scale to begin with. And then that grew. So that's very, so many practices would love to kind of do that. But that, you know, turning away some of those bigger projects, when there was probably, you know, good fees coming in or money, and then moving into kind of more theoretical competition work. How did you balance that with the need to be making money or supporting a team? Or did you kind of, did you kind of shrink down your team and kind of go solo? How did that work?
I have the chance not to be so interesting with money. So I was in the limit of a bump route. During probably 10 years, I it wasn't so happy. But in a way, I was happy because I was doing what I wanted to do. You have to adapt yourself in terms of conservation of the money you have. So it's not too difficult.
Got it? Got it. So it was kind of hard to reduce your expenses down and in a
way the money I have was the media. It is right because you're you're well known. Everybody speaking about your work. You're somebody you're not a sheet totally lost. In the art sector, Barkat, you exist, okay, you don't have money, but I think I will. Probably one day will arrive to make money and it's not to it wasn't my obsession at this moment.
Yes. Yeah. So you were kind of you were building your reputation. And your visibility, if you like as as an architect.
I had some, I had a moment very difficult. At the end of the second part I had made Yeah, you cannot imagine television, etc. It was crazy. And I didn't have no commission. No commission. Everybody was speaking about me what I'm doing. And one day, I was in front of a very big shop. It's abita you know, a Betta shop for furniture of house. And I saw a little chair in the in the window in the frame. I said, Wow, super beautiful object. How it's so simple. So nice. So, so perfect. So I enter in the shop, and I said, I'm interested in this little object, I find it very, very beautiful. To see that one. And the guy looked to me and said, You're the first guy was asked to buy and it was in the front. Right? And so I said, this chair is you. You are in the front. Everybody's speaking about you. Nobody is buying you. Yes. And I had a panic. I said probably. I am in a bad direction. Yeah.
So so how did how did you make that kind of how did you start to capitalize on the on the, on the fame, if you like and then the kind of publicity that you had, and then actually start winning commissions.
It's I think I did some very smart project. I call that specific project is for example, Astellas yawn, sort of after installation in the festival of shomo. So it's a very beautiful, but it's not architecture, but it's very beautiful. It's smart. scale, but it's okay. And I did things like that. But it's too specific. So everybody was saying Edwards a very good architect, very good designer, but if a client look, look to that, and if you ask the client is Edward, is Edward has the possibility to design a housing project? No, no, it's difficult to pass to this little thing to housing. Yes. Yeah. I was wondering about that. And I said, I need to do a generic project in the first project I did was January was more probably, you know, the bytecode. Ease. Yes. And it was a builder. He was in with his wife at at his private swimming pool. And he was looking at magazine. Magazine was my dad figure who was very chic, very bourgeois. And they had, I had an interview with Yahoo. And it was horrible. This interview. The, they said, first, we're going to take the portrait of you. And I said me, no, no, no. Put my project. No, no, it's a stupid to have my. My portrait is no, no, no, no, no, no, your project and interesting, but our client, or the guy who's reading our magazine, they liked her personality. And so I was like that. Yes, or like a full page. And the text was, HR is transformation, transformative. Ugliness in beautiness, etc. Why when I received this magazine, I said, Oh, my God, it's totally stupid. It's a very good with with that I will, nothing. And this guy he was looking to that my portrait. Nice guy. And his transforming ugliness and beauty nerds are the super. And he forms me. And he said it well. I'm a builder and more per year, I'd like to work with you. You're very interesting. Interesting of water. I love your project. How can you go my project? Nothing is described, you don't have any photo? Is it? Yeah, I like it very much. I will give you a project. This was my first project.
Amazing, make a very good, very good portrait photo of you. And
I said to everybody, don't show your project. And for example, when a client is interesting by your thoughts, don't show your project. It's not necessarily your project or reducing your problematic. And if a client likes one project, the worst thing he could ask is making a copy of a copy of your project.
Yeah. So that this is very interesting kind of way of, let's say, kind of a strategy with the media, if you like, where you're kind of actually, most architects want to show loads of images of everything. And it's kind of cheapening, if you like, the product, whereas here, you're talking about keeping it more elusive or secretive. It's very, I mean, it's quite a kit, you know, we were talking about her may, you know, your your T shirt, the way that they market if you like, it's very exclusive. And the
t shirt is another thing, just to finish to this reference project. When you enter in my office, you don't have any projects. We don't show our project. I don't like that. We have a portrait of Louis 14. We are the condors. Very big colors in silver, that are exceptional. We have masterpiece of art, but we don't show what we're doing. I don't like that. Because it is a unique either that we have to share with a client, but not our reference, or reference or dead. It's finished. It's in a box. And we want to do other things we don't show amazing.
So it today, what is your kind of strategy like with the media? Do you still do the same sort of thing where you kind of perhaps you hold back on projects getting published and have more other things?
So when I did the Chevelle blown Paris hotel that is classified Actually the best hotel worldwide LVMH. Mr. Bernard? No. They asked me to be in algebra that confidentiality. So because it's an hotel, nobody has to know what kind of development we do, what are our opposition to the sweets etc. And so it's a development totally confidence here. And this part of confusion, confidentiality, you cannot show to the media nothing. When I win this competition, a very big media come and said, we want to do an article about your Chevelle block project. And you can I said, That's okay, we could do that. But we or you could just take a photo of me in front of the existing building, I will show you nothing. You do show my part. That's. And so at this moment, I decided to stop totally communication with the media. So I did a sort of diet and sort of died 10 years diet. So you do, and it was really nice. Amazing. Yeah, really nice. I have no media during 10 years. Amazing.
So if you're working with clients, like like, like that, did they? Do they recommend you a lot? How do you kind of how do you prospect and when new projects.
But prospection is another thing? How do we prospect, it's very curious, we are like a little nuts in a river. So for example, I never did an otter, actually, we do the best auto, it's a curiosity. We are doing commercial areas very big. It's one guy's he was interest. And so in order to get this commission to, to us, we go with the windows in a certain way. Got it. And this is nice in a way, because the worst thing you can do is doing always the same program.
And you're gonna be bad
doing that. And for example, when I did my first hotel, it was the focus very and on the shores is a very luxury. And I said to myself, I need at the same moment to develop social housing in the office, luxury, weather, FEMA, NOAA weather, superficial, Barbara, and housing very poor few money. And so it's interesting. So I take things from the luxury to put in housing, social housing, and social housing, in luxury. And when I did ship I belong, I sent Shabbat rise, whenever the most important operation of luxury hotel, I have to do it at a tower in Paris, of social housing, and I did this that we're social housing in Teton, Europe, in theory, so it's the way to be to be free, in terms of thoughts, to have not just influence of the condition.
So that again, that's really quite something to be able to be working on these very luxurious hotels and glamorous projects, and then working on you know, working on social, affordable housing projects, and the two are such different different worlds.
So for example, we are doing designed furniture, we have a lot of lot of furniture we don't commercial commercial commercialism. Probably there will be a moment we are going to call Mercedes them we have a lot of chairs have balance tables, light and first handles. And for me, it's important because it's it's more near the humanity, you know, a handle, you're in contact with the hand. So it's probably a big difference when you do this big operation of your Urbanismo where's the UN and that, you know, you're you're beginning to be a serial killer, you know.
Towers. So, so when clients are engaging with you, and again, it's you know, it's so interesting that you've got, you've got clients in that kind of luxury world and you've got clients in the, in the affordable housing space. What are they? What are they coming for? Like, what what is it that they they they want when they come to you? Like what what's the attraction?
I think now their interest in having a vision, the vision for them, it's the word they say, Eduardo, he has a vision. And we're interested in that. By the time when you see my portfolio, you could look at Project ID 25 years ago, they're still in actuality, they are dealing about materiality or dealing about documentation, they are dealing about use digging about landscape, gardening of nature 25 years ago, so when they know that they said this guy is is, is used his right was a vision is right. So so that's why their interests and their interest intellectually for that, but their interest also for their team, they have teams. So for the team, it's a sort of AGI sounds of ideas position. And it's interesting for them in terms of iPhones to have a good reference in terms of architecture, because now, when you want to do something in a city, you need to have good reference because the town mayor said, You're too bad builders. So we don't want to work with you. How
do you balance kind of the creativity and the vision for a project with something like the fees of the project or the budget for the construction? Like how does that how does the money side and the creative side? How do they coexist
and do something very, very interesting. That is arriving actually is frugality, it's a French moment that
we have an English to forget.
Forget is very important. And so forget beats try to do something with very few things. And so I don't care about the budget, because we're in society that is so artificial, that they need money for doing this or this artificiality, of routine as a parameter. And so if you don't need that, to the Prime Minister's budget doesn't exist. I never have economic problems.
So So even on the on the kind of luxury projects, there isn't like an indulgence, if you like with the spend in
the luxury project, they never speak about money, they don't care. They want to see the strongest the strongest of the ideas. But for about an hour, I know I didn't want to do stupidities, that cost a lot of money, we have tried to be strict in terms of what is efficient, this is efficient, this is not efficient. And I'm limiting myself to this.
Yeah. And then obviously, with the with the affordable housing, the budgets are much more constrained.
The problematic is also you can resolve them with the division, the rightness of the vision, for example, I did this tower in Paris in de tinium. It was social housing, and town mayor tells me as well, you're crazy doing a social housing building with a facade in detail. It is not possible. And they said I said I understand what you're saying with the dome there. But it is not facade in detail. It is a temporary storage of material that is going to return if we have problem with China to the French and you see of of plays for maths and so to do so the actors for the for the first Peter bones in detail. So
it will hurt score it's about
it will be at the end sort of dirty facade with a laundry painting that you like. Yeah. And you said it's not so stupid to stamp everything. And I said that if this arrives, I will say okay, I think it's interesting to deal with that. This problematics are there but it was 10 years ago now we are totally in this problematics but 10 years before there was a little smell of that idea. Now it's it's not the smell is
pleasant
So, so in terms of your fees, then how do you how do you negotiate your fees and make sure that you're getting paid the right amount of money so that you can support the office and the team? And has that? Has that been something that come easily? Or that you've learned over time? How to get good at that? Or?
I think the architect kills architecture. They don't have the don't, Jose, Jose DB repeat themselves themselves in terms of idea? Because they say, wow, it's too difficult to I cannot do that. Because I'm just an architect and not a guy who is going to give visions, I just have to answer to the client. So they limit yourself. And in terms of fees, it is the same problematic. They said, If I get fees that is too high, that are too high, I won't have the commission. So I leave it myself. No, we give a commission that to Tawhai.
Guidance it? Well, it were you. It's a really very important lesson. That's okay. It's not a problem for you, you, wow, it was my project, you will have a lot of money in your pocket. So will it be good for you? And, and we still be like that. So we don't change the magic of my hair. And we said, if you want to take another Archery Tag that is more equal to me, it's not the program's choice for you. Got it?
Got it. So you've always kind of known to put your fees high. And that yeah, and, and actually the fees, you need to have the high fees to be able to get the vision that the client is asking for.
And also I not hurried to sign a contract. Before it can take one year, one year and a half, I don't care. At the end, after one year and a half. You don't have a contract. But you have the administrative authorization. What can declined? Do you have other rights? Yeah, what can you do? And I say to my clients, as long as you wait to sign the contract, how? How high my order, my feet would be? Right? And you said, Please Eduardo, we need to sign out.
So so the longer the wait, the fees are going up.
And in a way, they are totally blocked. What can they do? They pay for the development, they don't have contract, so they don't have the rules, the rules is the rules I am going to, to impose. Yeah,
yeah. In terms of that, them again, very, very interesting and kind of quite, quite clever, really, in terms of being able to negotiate like that and and really knowing your worth, and you know, not backing down on your fees, because again, so many architects will will they'll just they'll just lower their fees. As soon as the client pushes back they lower the fees and what you're saying is that you're quite happy to walk away from a project
Yeah, and it's not a problem just for no fees. For example, I could accept to work for a very, very small amount that is going to be inside the problematic right?
So it's got to be like interesting projects. Yeah. So I said for
example, when you work in foreigners, yeah, CTS country countries, for example, you are obliged to repeat right? You cannot do so much. So we have what are two rules you repeat the rules and you repeat the blocks. So it's included in the problematic of the fees. You don't have the amount of fees and the time that you have for example in your so you adapt your concepts your your thought to the problematic of the fees.
Brilliant, brilliant. So when is a client not a fit for you? Not Not, not a fit. So when is when is the when is it not the right client? How do you How do you turn a client away? Or know that they're going to be a problem? Or when do you say no?
I say no to stupidity to brutality. To undo when volumetrics arise me, for example, a client, he said, Put a maximum of a better score or a two maxima or maximum bicep. Okay, guy shoots. It's horrible. Sorry, it has no sense. You won't be able to sell it. I don't want to do that. Take another guy, please. Let me do my job. Yeah, yeah. And you have some guys is the some developer, they're only focused on metal squares metre, square metre square assembly city.
Amazing. The other thing that's very interesting about your work, you know, again, it's so the work itself is so interesting, every project is so unique, it's really innovative. And you're working in a place like in, you know, in Paris, in France, which I imagine, is similar to England, in the UK, in the sense that as there's a lot of restrictions, and it can be very conservative, in terms of you're working with historic buildings, and you're working right next door to, you know, medieval streets and cathedrals and all of this kind of thing. And yet, some of your, your propositions are, they're really innovative, they're very new, how do you, how do you manage to get some of these things built? Like do you use do you get problems with? You know, I know Paris is very difficult place to or not?
And do you doing things in Paris? Very, very crazy. Very, you have to know that. Since I was 24, I quite only work with private builders. So to work with private builders
you have some arch tech, they only know they only work with the public. So it's a tease Lofa
Namaskar and so when you are in front of this problematic,
they cannot arrive. Right? I can really leave in a forest in the forest with Dynamics, I will find food I will find an animal or all these automatic regulation of historical body mounted such I don't care. For example, the project I have it in Bordeaux, it was with a rational pay. We are in pilot back in one month. Yeah. UNESCO, UNESCO but primo in a worldwide system. Right. So it's difficult. So I did a project that is very obvious. And so the project is 80,000 meters far and allows you pay said to me, but how could we we how we will do with how could we do your project with RPA who are aggregation your banner? I said Mr. The First Minister, I understand your question but your your banner regulation is only taking care about the UK's it seems that I don't propose you to do absolute. Five Seven. You said yes. But you don't answer to my question. Mister the Prime Minister. I will answer to you. We're going to take all the articles of your argumentation. And we will put at least he said to me, I understand the idea. It is not exactly the same sentence that we're going to use, we will arrive to the same result.
This is a this is a very rock and roll approach to planning.
And so it's a way to challenge the situation if you want to say a first article. Yes, but we are not so it's better. And to do that, to return to the t shirt, you need to have a special look. You mustn't have the same look The other guys, it's not possible. If you have the same look that the other guys, we have the same problematic same answers. So you have reached a totally different look.
So it's really the kind of like they're buying into the brand.
It's like the monkey lobby is making the monkey
is brilliant, it's brilliant. Tell me a little bit about how the business has grown in terms of people. Obviously, when you first started, it was it was your, you know, as a young man 24 It was, I'm imagining it was just you by yourself, and perhaps a few
I had 25 or 30 persons when I was young, got it. We're always 3040 persons with a coffee to go to 10 persons, but now we return, I don't want to have wandered out 100 of persons. Because with a problematic that we have with 40 persons, it's really very, very much as energy for me to, to, to inform to feed on the project. Got it, it's really too much. If I had more project, I think the quality is not possible to the same quality and too much persons.
So you found that that kind of 3040 person firm is that? And how do you structure the teams inside? Do you have kind of teams that are just working on different projects? Or do you have kind of, here's the housing team, here's the luxury hospitality team or as a relevant experience, it
still remains it's important to mix to change the team's
got it. So So in terms of the how the teams are structured, the project people are people are being mixed around quite a lot. So
not having too much persons not too much. programmatics actually, you have to know that the programmatics are taking a lot of time. So a team is working on different projects, you know, it's a dark line, because activity not activity activity, not activity. And so one team could do different projects,
right so that was so when they when one project starts to not be so busy then they can flip out your
teammates change into another project or to another project and in a way it's nice and the more you have time the more you have the distance to appreciated what is very precise or not precise. So all my work is to extract what is not directly necessary to make purification of ideas. And so when you purify the ideas you you make the price better also because you don't have any power as it
got it nothing kind of eating away yeah so it's
something that is important for me is not to hurry the client I never hurry a client the more we take time the best it is right got it so for example for in the project of monopoly when this guy that was looking by dutiful portrait in that MPL he was a builder you know because he can kill me Yeah. And I tell him that we have to take time to know each other because I said I'm young you're very strong. You have to respect me I have to understand your details to make it very precise and if we take time we will do a good things I propose you not to work before six months and we will have a one lunch every week. And so we will have an exchange I will need to know what is the base of your work what is nice what what is a production you sell very well what is the product that you don't sell etc etc. And so I will design for you a shoe that is your resume so it's what we do with a six months and they get us quite fascinated by that said they don't need money this guy's not so you don't take care just want to know me. Yeah, appreciate the time is the best friend for architecture.
Right and
we Do we do? Sometimes too much fast size? too quick. You don't have alts Edison's reality is
the brilliant, tell me a little bit about how you find working in other countries.
The economy, they call
you and is it difficult? Is there a big kind of cultural learning? Do you have to collaborate with, like local architects? Or how does it work?
I think, yeah, we always work with local large tech, because you have rules are different. And the client, okay, they, they're happy to have an object that has vision totally different, that the need to have somebody is going to be there to develop and to translate. So this is the way we do.
Right, right. Got it. And in terms of, say, for example, I know you're working in Qatar, or you fit you have been working in Qatar. Yeah. You know, that there's kind of business cultural differences that you need to navigate has that ever been? You know, what kind of challenges do you have when you're working in a new country,
when you work in, for example, in full on that for a nurse? So I nurse countries, there is a distance you're different. It's like the t shirt. You don't need to take a t shirt, you're different. You're a foreigner. So you could say everything you want to do here, you
got it? Correct. If
not, they won't call you. They said, Okay, we'll make a misfit. Bye bye. So it's sometimes it's quite easy to work in finance country, the town mayors, they are more involved to modify the recommendation because it's a Fourier that's is with other problematic that are interesting that are going to teach us other way to, to develop architecture.
Amazing, brilliant. I think that's the perfect place to conclude the conversation there at all. I mean, that was absolutely amazing. So really, really fascinating to, to speak with you and to get a little blip glimpse inside of your, your practice and and how you do business. So thank you.
Yeah, it is a special business. Just to make my conclusion, I think architecture is really a super business, we have possibilities, to do things that are
imaginable. And so everybody's complaining about difficulties with developers. Bullshit, the developers are nice. The only problem I have is with the historical monuments are guys. Because they are in a situation of yes or no? Yeah, it's no,
it's no. Yeah,
you can. You can do it. So this way, I don't think.
Brilliant, fantastic. A lot of optimism there, Edward. So really, really appreciate
we have to give optimism in our projects. We are living in a moment of a society that is very positive. We know where we have where we are going to go. We know what are the main issues of the problematic or problematic of climate or fitness. We're problematic of ecology of the economy. We have to introduce materiality, where to introduce us in architecture, we have to reintroduce augmentation. Wow. It's fantastic. It is really fantastic. It's a very open minded Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Just
open your your eyes and your ears and participated. And everybody's going to follow you, I think.
Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you very much. Thank you. And that's a wrap. And don't forget if you want to access your free training to learn how to structure your firm, or practice for freedom, fulfillment and profit, please visit smart practice method.com Or if you'd like to speak to one of our advisors directly follow the link in the information. The views expressed on this show by my guests do not represent those The host and I make no representation promise guarantee pledge warranty contract bond or commitment except to help you be unstoppable
