Building Equitable + Sustainable Systems to Deepen Impact - Otisa Eads

11:54PM Aug 19, 2022

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Jonathan McCoy

Otisa Eads

Keywords:

hiring

nonprofits

people

interviewing

folks

conversation

candidate

workplace

year

starts

questions

process

grow

investing

community

called

challenges

equitable

life

love

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Hey, I'm Jon.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the We Are For Good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Oh, my goodness, we're just so excited.

Denver in the house.

We've got our friend Otisa on the podcast today. And we get to talk to her because her she's so wise. And she has got this really great insight, because she looks at things in a really holistic way. And we wanted to have a really interesting conversation with her today because she brings us experience of HR. And we don't have enough people in our life that love the HR space,

God bless you HR folks.

that brings systems with that and brings this lens of diversity, equity, inclusion and justice. And she's just here to have this really robust conversation with us about building an equitable and sustainable systems to deepen impact, like who does not want that. But as I've gotten to know her, something I love about the way that she shows up in the world is that she puts this on our website to her three core values and her work, our transformation, because she really wants to see long lasting change happen and the things that we do authenticity. You know, that's the only way that we allow people to show up here. So we're good about that. And then contribution, like really equipping people to support them reaching their goals. She works with businesses and nonprofits. But her expertise is really in nonprofits. And she shares her tips all the time. She even has a podcast called Otisa’s Biz Hacks & Tips. And you gotta check that out and learn all the things. But her passion is really helping people navigate challenges within their organizations. And she just loves this space, and you're gonna just have a delight listening to her too. Otisa, welcome to our house. We are so glad to have you here today.

Thank you so much for that lovely introduction. I'm so happy to finally be here.

Oh, my goodness. Well, it's a huge honor for us. And we would just love to hear a little bit of your story. Tell us about your path. Where did you grow up? We know you're in Denver, which we're all jealous of today, but kind of the work that you're doing and kind of your lived experience.

Yeah. Wow, that's a lot. I will hit the highlights. Yeah, I'm originally from a small town called Westport, Kentucky. And I loved it. I had a great life. My parents are still there in the same house, in the same community and but I always wanted to travel I started traveling in high school doing mission work at the time, because I just wanted to save the world. And then went to college and another small town called Murray, Kentucky. And I studied abroad in Chile for six months towards the end of my time there and I really was like, wow, I really love traveling. I love meeting new people. And I realized quickly that if I just stay in the same place that I really won't be able to open myself up to new opportunities, new things, new passions. And so as I was graduating and wrapping up my senior year, I did a lot of strange things. So strange thing number one was I decided to go into radio Yes, and I worked as an announcer for the for the radio station in town. It was the NPR broadcasting radio station. And I loved it. I fell in love with radio really fast and I really wanted a career in it. But I learned quickly that not having a broadcasting or journalism degree to back that up apparently would be very difficult and they were correct. So I moved. I journeyed to Colorado. Basically, my my then partner and I were wanting to explore music festivals and festivals because I thought I could coordinate and plan those in the future. And so we would volunteer at these different festivals. And we're like, okay, we'd love to live in there, Colorado or like Oregon. So if we could find festivals in those two areas, we'll see what happens. And so we're on our way to Telluride for the, they have, well, you know, I don't still anyway, so we went there. Stay with the story. So we went there, we were on our way there for the Bluegrass Festival they have every year and their wine festival as volunteers, and we were so excited. But our truck broke down in Golden. And so we had two options, go home, or figure out how to make it work. And so we did. And it was a very long and tiresome journey to figure out what we what we were going to do jobs we were going to get housing, I was was in the summer of 2015. So yeah, and then I just got different jobs. Like I worked at a call center, I worked at an English school. And then I worked in catering. And I started out in the catering company doing like a little bit everything sales, operations, a little bit of recruitment. And the manager that ran the entire, like the internal operations decided to leave. And so they offered the HR position to a chef. And then the chef was like, why don't you give it to Otisa. I know isn't that funny. And so yeah, I was like, okay, cool. This actually matches what I went to school for. It goes, it aligns with what I learned back in the day. And I had to build everything from scratch, you know, from, you know, handbook, switching PEO models, learn. And then I'm also learning about law and learning about, like the labor laws and learning about the different processes for an HR department and applying them in real time. And so yeah, I was there for about almost five years, right around 2020 was when I decided to resign. But I started my business in 2019. And was able to go from full time to part time. And here I am five years later, with the amazing online HR systems consulting business. And working with nonprofits has been so amazing and rewarding. But I also get to learn the trends that happen in nonprofits versus the companies and other businesses. And I'm starting to see the different needs that that have that kind of come up when it comes to these topics. And so it's just been an amazing experience. And I'm so grateful. And I love what I get to do. And I'm glad that you talked about my my core values. That's extremely important to me. And it's important with the work that I do with my clients, because I remind them that especially with nonprofits, like you talk about values, but it's important that you're living them, and that your staff, see you live them. That's what's important. You can have a fancy mission statement all day long. But if you're not living your values, then what are you really doing. So that's how that's how I work. That's my approach, to be honest with you.

Well, that is probably one of the most interesting winding path journeys that we have ever had on this podcast from Chile, to the radio to call centers and wine festivals. I'm just so excited that you kind of found your zone of genius, because I'll just tell all our listeners, we've even met with Otisa just talk about how she can help, you know, We Are For Good because we think this work is so important. And as the way of work is starting to shift, we thought this conversation would be really helpful. And as anyone who's listened to even one of our podcasts knows, you know, having a diverse, equitable, inclusive space of belonging. It's not even a pillar of ours. It's like an umbrella of our company, because we want it baked into absolutely everything that we do. And so I want to talk a little bit about equitable hiring strategies. We think that, you know, when you embrace change, it really allows for transformation to occur, which of course, is one of your core values. And I love that you bring it back to that. We just love to dive into a conversation around. How can we bake equity into our hiring strategies and practices? This seems like such a moment to have this conversation. Start us off with where you would take that.

I think it starts with educating oneself about what that looks like and how that aid has been modeled in the workplace in general. So one of the my favorite I would say resources that I use for trainings for discussions, even any materials I am producing to train people on this comes from a duo Tinna Nielsen and Lisa Kepinski. They wrote a book called Inclusion Nudges. It's actually a series of books. And I love I just love them and I like how easy it is to understand but also you, you're doing a lot of internal work as you are understanding, hmm. When I'm having these interviewing conversations, it starts even before they even get into the room. Yeah. How am I like, for instance, like, they talk a lot about flip questions, which is amazing tool, but also it challenges your own biases. So for instance, like if you're interviewing a woman, are you going to ask them the same questions that you're asking someone who's presented as a male? If you're talking to a person of color? Are you asking the same questions that you're asking someone who is a white body? How are you asking these questions? What are your intentions? And how are you? You know, I guess like, it's, it just starts with a lot of internal work of interviewing and hiring and what you've seen done that's been done on a traditional process, and then how to change things up. So sometimes it starts with honestly educate educating people on what these words mean, what does equity mean? What does inclusivity mean? What does diversity mean? And so I think that that's what a lot of my training is, is to go through these definitions, but also challenge yourself, right? And look at how you have navigated the hiring space, what has worked, what did not work? What are some really gross moments that you've had, okay, let's really dive in and talk about it with yourself or with a colleague or with a friend. And then how can you design a process that is not like that, and gets to the root of what hiring processes is to see if there's alignment with this person's skills. This person's, you know, whatever. For me, it's like making sure that the alignment between the candidate and the workplace is going together. A lot of the times we get hung up on their experience, like how you know how many years they studied at university, the different certifications that they have, like all of that's amazing. But if they're not aligned with the values, if they're not aligned with where the the business is headed? And do they challenge the workplace, like, do they challenge how they could see this place grow? Do you want that? Or do you not want that? Do you want someone to be complacent, agree and just do the job? And so I think there's a lot of questions that I asked my clients to really look at before we dive down this equitable hiring process, because it's going to be a little uncomfortable. I'm going to be asking a lot of questions. I literally have prompts that I ask, you know, why do you want to do this? Why do you want to have an equitable hiring process? You know, what are some ways that you can look for alignment when you're looking when you're screening candidates? Are you recording and documenting the thoughts that you have, as you're screening these candidates, and as someone else being part of that process to review, right, like, that's a lot, that's very different. Most of the time, there's one person doing majority of the hiring. And then when it comes to the decision making someone else is making the decision, not the person that takes the candidate through the interviewing process. So it just takes a lot of like willingness and being able to grasp this new concept. And to understand that you might get it right, you might get it wrong. But be sure that you correct yourself and be sure that you even if you tell the candidate, hey, we're trying a new equitable way of hiring, it might seem a little messy at times, and I'd be blowing your email up with things or might be asking a lot of questions, but we're really trying a new way of hiring and we hope that you can understand, and just letting them know, being being as transparent as you possibly can about the new process you're embarking on is extremely important. There's there's so many different components and pieces to it, that I didn't want to like, spend too much time on the details. But it's a lot, I think, mentally prepare oneself to completely change how they have either conducted hiring, or they've experienced hiring for someone else, right?

I mean, I love the comprehensive nature you're challenging us on because it can't be we're walking into the interview room. And let's let's collaborate at the last second to see if these questions because the process has got to start at the beginning. And I'll say my eyes were open because Becky and I've spent, gosh, 20 years in the industry. These are the conversations that are not happening. And so I want to harken back to a conversation we had with Birgit Burton, I remember talking to her who's now at Georgia Tech. And she was challenging just the qualifications piece that you're leading into as well. That if you're not looking at that you can't even get people in the door to think that they're qualified, even though they could be having all the transferable skills in spades. You know, they could have been raised the hardest dollars ever to raise in an organization but it's doesn't quantify to $10 million, or whatever kind of threshold. And so I think this conversation is something every leadership team needs to take back and consider from the entire ecosystem of how you hire and how you're looking at how you're getting people in the door. So I really appreciate the tone setting and really practical advice, you're threading in there too.

And I'm going back, like, in my mind, the hundreds of interviews that I've sat in, in my career, and I'm thinking I had no training in what to do other than have a conversation with this person. And even the systems that I was in, I don't even think I got the right candidates, because there were filtering processes. And, you know, we were an affirmative, affirmative action employer, which meant we could and couldn't do certain things. And I didn't have a lot of knowledge about what those were. And I just think that this is something one that we need to look at anyway. But looking at through the lens of inclusion is just one of the most important things that we can do. I'm so glad we're going here.

Yeah. And can I just add one thing, I, you know, what's interesting to me is like, I came from the food and beverage world, I came from hospitality. And so there is an it's an interesting process, because sometimes you're hiring in a season. So you got to hire a lot of people in one season, and eventually drop off in another because that's how it works. And hospitality land, especially here in Denver, Colorado, winter time, usually things kind of decline. And then spring and summer, everything picks up. So I would have to hire variety positions, at the same time, organize myself and organize my managers. And it was so funny to me, because this is normal, like I found screen, I didn't do all the things. And when I would start I started realizing, well, that's not equitable. If I'm the only one filtering, I need to have other people part of this process. So I start experimenting with having managers. Basically, I do the phone screen, I do the email correspondence, and then the manager will take it from there. And then sometimes depending on the position, that more people could be added. And so I remember, there was a candidate that I really, really, really wanted. And the manager for some reason, didn't work out well. And I realized, oh, they don't know how to interview. I know how to do this skill, because it's now part part of my life. But managers normally they don't think about how how to conduct an interview from beginning to end. And so what's amazing now my business is I usually work a lot with either like the board or the hiring committee. And you know, I phase this all out. So it's not the day one of our time together. But when we get to the interviewing section, we do a lot of prep work and preparation. And today, I got an email where the the panel, the panelists for the panel interview, they're all getting coordinated, and they're all serious. And I said to them, like, Okay, remember, you can have fun too like we did all the hard work, we did all the prep work. Now you can have a little bit of fun, you have your framework, you know what you're going to say and know what you're going to ask. That part's done. Have a little fun, because what folks don't understand is, interviews are stressful. They're stressful for the interviewer. They're stressful for the interviewee. If you come in super serious and too, like focused on getting it right, it just it changes the whole mood and tone of the interview. And you want this candidate to be excited for this opportunity, not concerned and worried about opportunity. So it's a lot there's a lot to this. And that's why I tell folks that it takes a lot of time it starts with the roots. It starts with the why. And it starts with doing the internal work around being equitable in general, including the hiring process.

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I mean, we're talking about building cultures in our workplaces that thrive. It's like you want to create an environment where people can show up and be their best, you know, and not feel like they're in this hot seat moment where they can't really even shine. So I mean, let's go a little bit deeper. What are some of the, you know, common missteps? You get to work with a lot of leaders. What are common missteps that leaders are making in hiring decisions these days?

Oh, I got a I got a lot of them. I think And the biggest one is hiring externally faster than really looking to see who inside the organization is also able to bring skills and assets to a position and forgetting to hire at the same. So when you post a job out into the ether into the world, you ought to be doing the same thing internally, even if no one applies, great. But it's given the opportunity to for folks to afford advancement. And I think that's something that I've noticed that they just forget to do with and encourage, like, Yeah, I know, we're posting this executive director position, yes, I get it. Like, maybe this is scary for you. But if you love what you do, and you see yourself in this position, it can't hurt to apply. And they get experience in interviewing for a position like that, even if it's even if it's not aligned with where they are in their career at that specific organization. And so I think that's something I've always watched folks do is they don't really look within, they always want to find the solution outside of themselves. And number two, I think something that really just boggles my mind is what I will say, is folks look so much at skills, meaning like when they're looking at their resume, they're just looking at all the things they did at that past company, or that past organization, when I care about how they see this position, how they see themselves growing with the company, or how they see that see themselves growing in that role. Where do they see themselves headed? And and what's their work style? Like, how do they like to work? What kind of work culture? Do they see themselves thriving? And like, those are the questions I really care about when I'm interviewing. It's amazing that they have this amazing resume and skills. And like I said, like all of that's awesome. But it doesn't answer the questions that I guess as an HR person that I have to be mindful of as well, which is, does your work style align with our work style? And if it doesn't, is this what we need? Or do we need more of this, because you know, we're lacking XYZ in our culture, or in our work style, okay, this is going to be an awesome asset to our company, or organization. And I think I just I watched folks, they also hire from desperation. So I tell this quote to my clients, basically, if they hire fast, so they post a job one week, they get two candidates, and they keep going, then you're gonna get desperate candidates. And, and so meaning that the person could be amazing. However, you didn't take time to get a diverse candidate pool, and you didn't take time to pause because you're so desperate to fill a role. And not looking at having a great, you know, a great asset to the company that's looking at alignment, not to fill a hole. So those are the I would say that the big, the big ones that I see a lot. And again, I get it, like when you're when you're no one likes hiring, let's just be real, you know, no one enjoys it, it's not always fun. And it can be really risky. And it can be stressful, just because of all the things you have to do you. And if you are hiring for a position that's impacting your role. That's also really, really difficult to see to see how this will actually work out. If you take your time and you're patient with the process. I have to remind my clients all the time, like I'd rather go slow and steady and get the alligned candidate that rocks in their 90 days and like kicks butt then then rush, rush, rush hire an okay candidate and then have to fill this position again in a year or six months.

Absolutely. For sure I am I can think of that happening so many times. And I'm also channeling Rhea Wong, a conversation we have with Rhea Wong, when she said desperation is a stinky perfume. And we don't want to have desperation in our solicitation practices and our hiring practices. And that reflects the culture, you know, I think is an important element of that. So totally agree and just want to hitch my wagon to your second comment about looking beyond the expertise. I mean, I will tell you, and I'm more of a science of fundraising as an art kind of a girl that I mostly hire on fit. And that was just my style. Because if you had heart and hustle and you had enough of a background, and you wanted to stick around, we will teach you what you need to know. But we need somebody that can match our passion and can match our desire to like want to chase things that matter. And so those soft skills, folks, are the things that really humanize and connect us in our culture. So thank you for allowing me to have that little like soapbox moment because I really think that fit is a huge component of what we do when we're in this human based relationships industry. So I want to like transition just a little bit into de-biasing the workplace if this is a new concept for some of you listeners, it is absolutely a growing trend. Not just in the U.S. but go globally, and I just feel like we're seeing this vast body of research showing that all hiring practices are likely biased and unfair. There's unconscious racism, and ageism, and sexism, you know, all playing into who gets hired. But there are steps that you can take to kind of recognize and reduce these biases. So talk to us about how we can begin to work on breaking this down. And what are some unconscious biases that you've seen that are really baked into our systems, and practices that are problematic, we would love to get your thoughts on that.

Like I said Pandora's box

Right? Go for it.

I think there's a lot of things. And again, I mentioned that book Inclusion Nudges. And I love as they talk about our brains and how our brains are wired when it comes to talking about biases. And so I think that on one hand, there's some things that are automatic in our brain, unfortunately. And then there's some things that are learned that are behavior based. And I think if we can focus on understanding how our brains are wired, I think this will be an easier process in general, the problem that I've seen is folks think by doing, you know, bias training and doing all these different things that it's going to fix it and I don't know, if you've seen in research, it actually can make it worse. Depending on how they are doing, especially if they do it, like once a blue moon or once a year. This is like I tell my clients, or if I do trainings, like, you know, understanding the roots of unconscious bias or understanding the work that is ahead of us, when it comes to DEIJ is internal first, it looks it takes looking at ourselves to really do any impact in the workplace. So I just have to err that, like thank you, you can read all the books, you can, you know, go to all the trainings, but if you're not practicing this in your personal life, it's just going to be harder for you to practice in a workplace in a work environment. So that's PSA number one. Got that done. But I really think you know, what folks have to remember is, it starts with also the head. So if the leadership, you know, the ED, the board, if they're not on board, no pun intended, then it's really going to be very difficult to start this work in this process in the workplace. And when I talk to clients, and I do culture assessments, I always ask questions, especially with my nonprofits, what is the relationship, like between the board and staff, if DI or DIJ, is important to the staff. But yet it is not important to the board good luck, if it's important to the staff and the ED could care less about really doing the work and embedding these, you know, these processes and really diving deep and making things equitable and inclusive, good luck, it's going to be very, very difficult. So really, it comes down to you know, how deep do you really want to take this work? How are you going to foster this kind of environment? And also, my third point would be accountability. How is that going to look like within the organization, if someone is doing some of these things, and not correcting their behavior, if they're saying slurs if they are making folks uncomfortable, and not willing to correct and learn and educate themselves? What's the consequence for that? Or another option is how are how are you going to keep these efforts in the forefront? Are you going to have a committee with staff, board and leadership, who are going to make sure that there's trainings happening all year round, that there's resources for folks to refer to and utilize and have access to, you're bringing in experts to come in and share their, their knowledge, their ideas, and to help move this forward? You got to have buy in from everyone. You know what I mean? And so, you know, that's, that's what I see. I see a lot of folks talking the talk, but not walking the walk and then not willing to look at themselves, and also not willing to have any, any sort of accountability from anyone. So that makes it very, very, very hard to start this process of process of de-biasing the workplace. If you're not even willing to look at yourself, and you're not willing to even create a space for that to be fostered in the workplace, then, then good luck to you. It's going to be very difficult.

And you've got your work cut out for you.

Yeah, right.

I definitely, you know, feel the call to action for leaders, people who have influence that can show up and say we're going to create a different place where this is safe to bring up these topics and it's safe to call people out if you're feeling marginalized. What is, you know, the instructive to somebody on the team that feels alone in this you know, is where do you go and how do you start to move the needle or do you just get out because it's not a safe place? Like what's your counsel?

Yeah, I you know, I've gotten this a lot. So I think there's two things I think, number one is, have you talked to the right folks that make the decisions and have you had a one on one or, and I would also document. So write an email about what you're seeing the changes that you think ought to be made and what your ideas are, I think starting about I think starting with sharing your thoughts and sharing your experience at that workplace. Again, I'm not sure if that's with HR, your ED, I'm not sure who that is. But figuring out who the person is and sending them an email and following up with a phone call or a Zoom meeting, or whatever it is, start there. And also give yourself a little patience and grace, because not everyone moves as fast as we would like.

We're in nonprofit, we get that we've been on a glacier our whole lives moving slowly, trying to speed it up. In something I wanted to just say about what this great counsel that you're giving is, if you work it in culturally, and you don't just check your DEI box on your strategic plan by having a workshop or by having, you know, the week long training, if you can bake it in to just your meetings and your conversations and the way that you're even using the DEIJ is that justice? I've never heard a J on the end of that.

Yes. Yeah.

Okay. I've heard the DEIB, which is belonging. But I really love the J on the end as well. But if you're, if you're really infusing that, you know, through everything through the lens of everything that you're doing, you're going to elevate everybody into that. So I think that's great. And, Jon, that was a great question. Because I, I have to like just sit here and say that I feel for our community sometimes, because I feel like all of you out there listening your growth mindset individuals, you are curious learners, you are people who really want to chase purpose in a large and progressive way. And we understand that the world and your mission sometimes are not ready for you, they are not ready for We Are For Good. And but I think the repetitive nature of lifting this voice and the lived experience is the way that we chip away at some of that. And we want good people to stay with these organizations. We don't want 18 months to be the average tenure for professionals in the nonprofit sector that is so damaging to the way that we build and form relationships. So I would love for you to just tell us like, what are some tips you could give us? Or advice on once we had these incredible hires? How do we retain them in the sector with such high turnover?

I you know, I really think it's mindset, though. I think that a lot of the times when folks are hiring, they're not thinking about the long term with that specific candidate or employee. They're just focusing on the pain or, oh, my gosh, we have no one in our development team. Ah, like they're not focusing on okay, we got the person now where do we see this headed? And how do we see this team grow? And then what do we need to do to sustain this? I think a lot of the times, it's just focusing on, on keeping things moving and going, and not really taking the time to reflect and really saying, okay, this is how I want this org to grow. And this is what's needed, and how can we invest in our employees to retain them in order to continue down this growth plan that we have? And I say investing because a lot of the times, you know what, when I talk to certain clients, oh, you know, we don't have the budget for benefits, or, oh, we don't have the time to really invest in them in this way. But but we do this, and I'm like, okay, that's awesome. But if you want to keep people, you got to give them some benefits, you know what I mean, you got to start thinking of how you can do that now. And I had the pleasure of talking with someone who does the enrollment of benefits and so forth for nonprofits. And we just basically said, like, we just discussed and talked, and I love that she said like, if you have enough money to set aside like $100 a month, you have enough money to invest in your team to have benefits. So I really think I really think it's about that investment piece. And what does that look like? Or how are you investing them into into growing their career path? You know, do you have a development pipeline for them to to utilize? Do you have a career development fund that they can use to take courses and or, or take classes or workshops to further develop their skill set? Like, how are you investing in your team? How are you investing in the long term? And if you're not doing that, who do you need to meet with? Is it the Finance Committee? Like who do you need to talk to to start implementing that sooner rather than later? Because that's the number one thing I hear from staff is, you know, not having any health insurance or not having anything that they can rely on when those times happen in their lives that wouldn't make their lives easier, in addition to that career development pipeline and figuring out how they can enhance their skills because they don't want to stay, you know, program manager forever, right? They might want to grow into a director role or so forth and so on. So I think that It comes down to investing, like, how are you investing into your staff?

Yeah. And I keep thinking about the values kind of how we topped off the conversation today. It's like, if you're living that out, your mission probably exists for empowerment or for upskilling. Or for like helping somebody to step forward in their life in some way. And so how it's like, are you modeling that to the people that are closest, like in the seats that are doing the work like it's part of mission delivery to me is that investment, so lots of things are connecting in my brain I gotta say. You know, we love philanthropy here, we celebrated on the daily, I would love to give you just a chance statistic to tell a story of maybe when philanthropy has intersected your life and really stuck with you in your journey.

Wow, that is a really deep question. Ah, I mean, there's so many ways, like there's so many ways, I think, where it started, I guess, because I have to, I guess, give a little story of like, where it started in my life and where it is now. I was always really inspired by any work that folks were doing in helping a community. And I know that when I was in high school, I was really inspired and helping the folks and the Dominican Republic. And so that was the work that I was alluding to, back in high school where I got to spend some, I think a week in the DR. I got to take off school too.

In the DR.

In the DR.

I love that you called it the DR.

You're on the DR basis with the Dominican Republic.

I loved it, it was such a great experience. And, and it really inspired me in so many different ways. But the biggest part for me was seeing folks in this community that we were helping in real time. So we had a medical clinic for a few days, and just watching and spending time with the kids. Because you know, a mom was coming in with like four kids and getting through the medical clinics. So what I decided to do was create a little like play area where we had coloring books and all kinds of things to distract the kids, while the mom can do or the father, whoever to do whatever they needed to do. And it was just so fun. There's a lot of fun. Sometimes it was a little sad, you got to see things that I don't think I would have seen if I hadn't done that work. And to watch the different things happen in that community over time. Basically, it was like a landfill that folks had squatters, right, so they could live there. And so it was a very, very eye opening experience for someone who's a young American, going to into a different country and seeing different things. So that's where it started. And I actually thought I was going to do that full time when I graduated high school. My mom was like, no, no, you're not you're going to college. And I always just try to anytime I could volunteer to do something, I really think giving giving my time even now, I'll help nonprofits oh my god, don't worry about it, let me just do this for you real fast and come back when you're ready or whatever. Giving my time was really important to the causes that light me up. And then sometimes what's cool is, now I get to work with clients that are doing incredible work in the community. And to watch that growth has been phenomenal. And so I will say it, a lot of it is it's hard because it's like all I want to do is if I could volunteer, give my money to all these different causes, and help these nonprofits. It's just, it's an interesting world to be in. I don't think if you'd have told me this years ago that I would be doing this right now I would laugh at you, I'm sure you two understand there's so much work to be done in our local communities, let alone across the country, here in the U,S,, but I really try to be informed and and see what I can do to support any way I can.

I mean, there is so much work to do. And I have just a like a very joyful heart to know that you had that experience in the DR and it really lit you up. And then was something that you were passionate about a naive found a niche within the sector where you can help power movements that help you know nonprofits like that, which is extraordinary. So we end all of our conversations Otisa with one good thing and it's either a life hack a piece of advice, what would be the one good thing you would offer up to our community

Figuring out how to incorporate play and joy in your either everyday life or in your work life. I I've just been practicing that myself. And I just noticed how the day goes when I'm actually enjoying myself, having fun, even if it's just playing my favorite playlist while I'm getting my accounting done. Or talking to a good friend after I end my work day, or I end my workday early to go do something really, really fun that lights me up. I I just I have seen the difference it has made in my life by incorporating play and joy into my work and not thinking that it has to be separate. You know, because when you think of HR, or consulting, it doesn't sound fun, you know? And so I've just been challenging myself over the last two years to really incorporate that as much as I possibly can.

It's such a fun one good thing, what a way to round this out? I mean, share all the ways Otisa people listening today I know we're gonna want to connect with you and your work. How do you show up online and where's the best place to follow?

Ooh, I show up online and a lot of places, but the best ways would be LinkedIn. Just type in my name Otisa Eads and I'll pop up, you'll see my face. And then I have a website, just go to OtisaEads.com. And I do have Instagram and it's just @OtisaEadsLLC and you can like my stuff or DM me or whatever you would like. And there's more ways on there to figure out how to contact me as well.

Well, you are a delight. I am just so excited that you've found your spot in this sector. I think this work is needed so desperately. I hope anyone who was looking for a place to start in this work had a light bulb moment while you were talking and will reach out. So thank you so much for coming in, learned so much in this conversation and we absolutely wish you the best in your company. Keep going. Your work is deeply important.

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a ball to be here with you two.

Appreciate you.

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