Quiet Rebels® Podcast #121: The Inside Interview: Re-Creating the Sustainable Visibility® Incubator 3.0 ft. Suzanne Culberg
2:21PM Jul 7, 2022
Speakers:
Mai-kee Tsang
Suzanne Culberg
Keywords:
people
feel
space
talk
question
super
program
vetting process
thought
podcast
showing
suzanne
listening
kee
visibility
run
mai
participant
love
highly sensitive person
Hello, everybody and welcome to the quiet rebels podcast. If you can't tell by the accent already, this is not Mai-kee
this is Mai-kee don't worry. I'm still here. But you know that the reins are going to be handed over to the amazing Suzanne today.
My name is Suzanne Culberg joining you from the future in Sydney, Australia. And I'm here today to interview Mai-kee About SVI.
Oh yeah, like this is the inside scoop insight or whatever you want to call it the Backstage Pass kind of Shindig. And I love that this was all your idea.
Each pass, let's call it that. And let's say that I call it SVI because I have a lot of issues. Sustainable visibility incubator even though I've been in the program for like a year now.
What you said it perfectly just they're just
winging it live. So the reason I asked Mai-kee today if I could have the honor of interviewing her on her own podcast is as an avid listener of the show, I always enjoy episodes where the host gets to be their own guest and make a program svi is about to kick off in its third evolution. And I'd love to know what's changing for this round.
Oh, I am here for it. I am here for it. And I love that. You know in film, they call it the breaking the fourth wall where you actually talk directly to the audience. I feel like you're doing that right now but in podcast form
first before breaking the fourth wall.
Yeah, the fourth wall I believe like please correct me if I'm wrong. So any listeners right now who like maybe got it totally wrong. But a perfect example is in Enola homes. It's the same girl like Millie Bobby Brown. I think her name is the main girl and Stranger Things. And she breaks the fourth wall when she actually talks directly to the camera. But I feel like because at the moment you're kind of like letting everyone is I feel like you're breaking the fourth wall in terms of like a podcast interview. But I just thought that mentioned that.
Basically, I just wanted all the deets and I figured this was the best way. Yeah,
okay. Okay, let's do it. Let's do it. I'm here for all.
So, what's changing? Like, what's evolving? What's happening? The scoop for this upcoming round?
Oh, well, I seriously this has happened twice. Right when I close to call for 1.0 and 2.0. I was immediately working on the next evolution. I'm like, oh, like just from the launch experience itself. I'm always thinking like, Oh, I could have done this better. I could have like offered this instead or something like that. But something that came very apparent to me is I always record all the trainings and all the hotseat calls and all of that. And I asked just just on a whim one day, I was like, by the way, how many of you actually go back and listen to your hot seats? And everybody had this guilty look and started looking at each that each other's like zoom windows I thought was so cute. And I was like, It's okay, if you don't by the way, like I record it anyway, just just for you. You know, offer transcripts and all that to make it super easy to see through when I ask that everybody was still like I was like, Oh, it's a shame in some way because there are some amazing gems of conversation that come out of these hot seats especially because of course is what's happening in each of your businesses at the given time. So I thought, what if there was a way that I could encapsulate those gems, and kind of put it in a more easy to consume format. And so that's why I brought up the, the, the idea to you or like, Hey, if you know for any future around and of course, I give this access to anyone in previous rounds than 2.0 1.0, as well, to a private podcast, where I would put all of those gems in there not not actually snippets from the, from the hot seat, I will take the idea from the hot seat, because I really take great care, like, I like to think so anyway, take great care and anonymizing information because because I appreciate the hot seats are in a very intimate space, and everybody who shared consented to that space only. So to have that in another format, even if it's still to other svi people, for any future participants, the previous ones would not have consented to them listening. So I thought, Okay, what did I learn from this share? And how can I anonymize it in a way that's widely applicable to anybody who wants to hear it? So they're gonna be like super bite size? Musings, we're gonna call it Mai-kee's Musings. And it's an exclusive podcast just first. Yeah.
I love that. And just for the sake of the listeners, to clarify what you mean by a hot seat, because I know what you mean, because I've been
using our lingo. Yes to detail, what is the hot seat?
Oh, you want me to define it? Yeah, because you brought it up. So why not? Let's just I was just thinking, You know what, sometimes it's like to listen to something. And there's an assumed understanding and assumes knowledge. So in SVI, the hot seats are, I would say, like, an open group coaching format. But instead of it just being I've heard you talk about this on your previous podcast interview you did with Anna about in group coaching, sometimes it can be like race to race to the put your hand up or race to get your question answered. It's not like that, like your space is very small and intimate. I'd say it's more like a focus session. So there's an allocation of time, and depending on the size of the group, obviously, not everybody would have a question each time there's a hot seat or not everybody maybe would have that availability. But there is that space for you to have laser focused coaching on individual with the witnessing of the others. And I love how that you invite others to contribute if they have an insight, but with the permission of the person who's in the hot seat. So it's not like I know in other programs I've been in as a highly sensitive person and a lot of your listeners are, you can kind of feel like you're under the microscope. So even the saying of Hot Seat might for some people bring up. I know in other spaces hot seat can make me very uncomfortable. But in my case, well, it's very safe. It's very permissive. Like is that a word? It is now I tend to make up words. The word is in use in each and every time you reiterate that permission asking and and sometimes you can totally say No, I don't want any insight, I just want to be held or seen or have a space to unpack. But I love that like at the end of the session, make his musings with the Bite Size things because there is often really deep insights. But the reason I think many of us don't listen back is an hour to get a snippet. So I think that's an amazing resource, both for yourself and for the participants.
Thank you, I'm so glad I was like, Oh, if no one's interested. And I might not do this. But at the same time, I always honor the creative urges because I'm a manifester, in terms of human design. And something that I've learned about my type is that I don't have that burst of energy very often. So whenever I do, I need to really honor that. And, of course, I do like to run it by people just so that I'm not completely shooting in the dark. But most of the time, I'm just kind of like lighting a little flame. I'm like, Can anybody see this light, like in this dark here? Thank you. And I appreciate your own recollection of your own experience inside of these hot seats, because I totally appreciate where you're coming from that feeling of feeling like you're under a microscope sometimes, especially if you didn't consent to everybody else chiming in. Even if they have really good insight. That's, that's not the point. It's not about the quality of insights from other people. It's just simply the consents that must be confirmed from the person in it. That's super important. So just want to say thank you for acknowledging that and I'm really glad that that how you feel inside of the spaces in SVI. You're
welcome. And I love that you, you do bring back to it's not necessarily the quality like everybody has valuable ideas and valuable contributions. But if it's a sensitive topic for you, or if it's something new or you're unsure, often, lots of different voices can become really overwhelming. And I know for me, it's kind of what I want to ostrich here. back then. We just parked out for another six months, shall we?
Literally, are this movie is a Disney movie called Bedknobs and Broomsticks. And there's literally a scene, you know what I'm talking about. For the for anyone who hasn't seen that before. Basically, there is a football game amongst so many different types of animals. And there is like the super strong team, like all the alligators and the lions, and all of that stuff. And on the other side is like this really shy hippo. And like this ostrich and when the ball comes to us, the ostrich actually sticks his head in. And I literally just go with that, as you said that, but yeah, absolutely. And I'm also a highly sensitive person as well. And I think because of that, I always put my self in the shoes of another highly sensitive person to kind of see what's overwhelming for me could be overwhelming for other people. And I really tried to reflect that in the experience, because I think I've been in quote unquote, intimate spaces before with like, over 20 or 30 people. To me, personally, that's not intimate, but each has their own. And it can be like, super, I don't know, I almost feel like, you know, you're hiding behind a wall. And I feel like the walls been knocked down, like, and I'm still wanting to hide behind it sometimes. So I like that. I like to pave out the experience where someone feels like they're stepping out from behind the wall, like, I'm okay to be seen right now. But when I'm ready, I want to go back behind the wall. You know, it's just kind of like giving that retreat option, should they want to, because it's not in my it's not in their best interest. You know, for me to kind of force it out. It needs to be consensual all the way through.
I love that. I know you're a big Disney fan. I'm not sure if this is Disney or Pixar or something else you might have to correct me. But as you were discussing that the movie The film that came to mind for me is the Croods. Have you seen The Croods? Yes, I
have. I think I might be DreamWorks. But anyway,
it's cartoony, more directed at children, but we love it movie. And it's kind of like it's safe in the cave. And there's that teenage type girl who's like I want to get out of the cave. So sometimes when we join a program, we can be like, yes, I've got that energy. But then when you're in the hot seat, or you're presenting your idea, or you're having something, it's fledgling. And you have that night, I just want to be the dad and stay in the cave because it's safe. And you're inviting people to make their way to the edge of the cave, but not dragging them out.
Yes, is that fine balance between not dragging people out of the cave, nor putting them in it is kind of like, well, you choose whether you want to be in and out of this game. I love
that. And so for you. The other thing that you mentioned is intimate spaces. And I love how you made mention how we define that differently. Because you can see sales pages for programs like active groups are an intimate space and you get there it's kind of tons of people or tumbleweeds. So for you what is like what does that mean in an intimate space?
Well, I'll give a precise number because I think that's important to share for this particular context. So for me, intimate is going to be eight people or less per pod. So you're actually in I called it the am pod when you join, I've actually decided to call it the Pomelo pod and the Pineapple pod. Because
when I change timezones I've got a shirt with pineapple written on.
But you're technically in the Pomelo pod, but you can be honorary Pineapple, no problem. Because actually, even if you're in a different pod, like the members in each pod, you are technically all Incubuddies, which, you know, shout out to Bree, who actually coined that term at the very beginning. But yeah, so the name of the pods, I'm calling it pineapple, and pomelo. Because when I did the whole AM PM thing, it was so confusing, because some people am with other people fear and I was like, Oh my goodness. But I love that I got to choose two of my favorite fruits. And luckily for me, they actually originate in different the opposite sides of the world. So pineapples grow in the Americas, and pomelos grow in Asia. So Pomelo is gonna be representative of those in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Africa, and the UK and Europe as well. With your UK is in Europe, that is not part of the European. Alright, yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. But back to your original question, my personal number is going to be eight. And the reason for that is because I think something that is probably glossed over a little bit when people are taught to run a coaching program is to have as many people as possible so that is scalable in terms of finances, and that that I completely understand I completely appreciate however, so One thing that I teach throughout of svi is really kind of honoring where you are. And what I mean by that is what position you are in honoring the intersections of your identity, whether the identities that you're born with, or identities that you wind up taking on because of your experiences. And something that I identify as is I am a trauma survivor. So that does mean that I'm naturally sensitive to various things, various types of people, etc, etc, which is why my vetting process is super strong. And also, I know I cannot hold an intimate space what I deemed to be intimate anyway, for 20 people, 30 people, like how other groups have claimed to be intimate. It just doesn't work that way for me, so I need to think to myself, to which degree can I expand this group before it starts compromising my quality of care, my quality of delivery, and I found that my number is actually pretty small. So financially, it may not be the biggest number. However, I do focus a lot on depth versus breadth. Because I believe that if I take care of people to the degree of depth, I can take them to that breath will naturally expand because it's not me individually reaching everyone is the people who have taken to that really deep space where they can, like, shout from the rooftops should they want to, for other people to join, because I actually would love to be in a space like that, personally, where I feel like I'm one of the small handful, and we go super deep together, we build really deep roots and have beautiful, interconnected relationships. And it's just a community and actual community, not just people that get chucked into a room, but actual community that interact.
Oh, my goodness, man, I kind of got goosebumps just listening. And I something I wanted to circle back to that you mentioned there was the vetting process, because I know for me when I was applying, that was something that was very important to me, because there are many programs like not to speak down, not name and shame or anything, but there are many programs that say they have a vetting process, or indicate in a way that you know, maybe they just accept everyone
there's a bit of a, it's cricket this of actual crickets.
Okay, let's call it out. Let's call it out because I was like, the microphone,
okay. So, I just wanted to say if you can hear a strange noise maker, because it's kind of distracting me. It's Crickets? Crickets? Crickets, because we've had at the time of recording this 700 mils of rain over the last three days. So more rain than the UK gets in a year. Right here right now. So there's a lot of nature situation.
Because I'll say what, I thought it was a microphone thing, but it's actual crickets. But that crickets are not involved in our conversation in the, you know, the metaphorical sense. It's like, oh, it's crickets as in like, no one's talking like that. We are talking there's just actual crickets out.
The creature, a cricket? Yes. The thing I want to circle back to is your vetting process. Because I know for me when I am considering applying for a program, that's something that is, is very important to me. Like what what is it is a space that is because especially as it is a small, intimate space and the thing that you alluded to, and I can say that you've done as a participant, it's not you're just throwing up to eight people together, have fun creating this community, but not in a forced way. Like, also groups I've been in, it's like, let's all work with each other and comment on each other's stuff. And that's just like no, but how it's happened very naturally, to be part of to witness. It's just beautiful. But the question I first got away from that is the vetting process. Can you tell the listeners a bit about that? Because I know sometimes another thing that many of us highly sensitive people tend to do is we don't want to apply for a call, or we like we don't want to waste your time. So can you talk a bit about how your vetting process works, and if that anyone is kind of on the fence, but is really worried about like wasting your time? What's your what do you have to say about
that? Do you know I find that this seems to be quite a common feeling amongst those in my community in particular, there's so consider it that they're like, oh, I don't know that already tells me something about themselves. That they they are conscious about how much space they take up on As his time in someone else's space, so that already is actually a good sign for me personally, if you feel that way, if you're like, oh, like, I don't want to waste your time, I'm like, Okay, you're already a very considerate person. That's a really good sign. But, yeah, when it comes to the application process, honestly, it's both for me and you. And the reason why I say that is because, like I said, with the number of people is not the most financially abundant number. However, I need to know that I can take care of this many people. So the application process is for me to know if I feel safe with you. And I don't think a lot of program runners facilitators, people who run group coaching program, I don't think they really talk about that that much, maybe they don't feel that, but I absolutely do. Because, again, I need to see everything I do through the lens of my own trauma. And so that means that there are various characters that I personally find, they hinder, they make me kind of want to shrink. And if I get that feeling from someone, then I can't let them in. And it's not because I don't want them. It's because I know that I can't do them a great service, if I feel like I shrink in their presence, and they are much better off with somebody else who is ready to take them on. And so it's very much a two way street, this vetting process, I want to make sure that I feel safe enough with you. But absolutely the the other way around as well. I want people to feel safe enough to tell me how they like to be held. Very important questions that I have to ask, because some of the content SVI is naturally very tender. And it can bring up a lot of stuff. And I need to, like put my stake in the ground and say, hey, my scope ends at a certain point, when it ventures into therapy territory. As much as I want to be the one to hold you have to trust me I do I really do want to be the one to hold your hand through or is not right for me to do that. Because I'm not professionally trained yet. So the question I always ask now is, do you have access to your preferred healing modality of choice? Should the content in this program bring up things are outside of my scope of practice? It's a bit of a long winded question. I know. But don't worry, you can read it. Like on the application process. And the reason for that, again, is so that they know ahead of time, what could happen, and to have kind of like something in their back pocket, whether it's a person, whether it's a crystal, whether, again, whichever healing modality of choice, because there's no judgment there, everybody chooses their own thing. They need to know all of that beforehand. So that they can go to that when I can't be the one to hold them through the process. And that's really hard for me to admit, by the way.
I love that. And I think a lot of the listeners will really appreciate that. Because sometimes in our quest or our desire to help, you know, as helpers, having the boundary of what is ours to help with, and what isn't in a loving and caring way, being really clear, as we know, I love Brene Brown, or McCain, I know everyone else. But Brene, Brown says clear, he's kind. And as a participant in the program, I've really loved that both from from the outset, and where you've reiterated it during the program about you know, what the space is for, and what it's not for, but not in a harsh kind of well, like, off you go kind of thing, but you know, you know, in a clearer way. So if someone's thinking of applying, how is the How does the process run?
So the doors are going to be open between the ninth of August and sometime in September, like I can't remember the date at the top of my head, but it will be available in the show notes. Because when I actually go back and like edit this and upload, I'm like, Oh yeah, like that's the day. So check out the dates. This is in 2022. So if you're listening past this time in 2023 onwards, then the dates will change, but the link is always going to be the same. So the link, by the way is www.Maikeetsang.com/apply. And when it's when the doors are closed, that will be a waitlist page. But so you don't need to worry about changing different links means that there's always going to be the link, one of those are open, the applications will be there. But when the doors are closed, it will be a waitlist. So there's always a way to kind of like let me know that you are interested. So how it works when the doors are open. You'll probably see me talking about it on email, especially on Instagram because Instagram is my jam but the algorithms really kick my ass lately, my do my email this time. But yeah, you read the page. And if you find any form of resonance and you're interested, there will be a button for you to apply. And then you'll fill out some of these questions. Some of these questions are really for the basis of our conversation, I do not let anyone in without a call. And I am sorry, in advance, I'm kind of sorry, not sorry, I'm sorry in advance for those who really don't like getting calls, because they already know they want to be a part of it. That's great. But I still need to know from my perspective, as well. And I really want to emphasize this, because for any of you who are listening, who may want to run your own programs in the future, you get to feel safe in your own space as well. Like, yes, it's the place for you to serve other people. But your service to them can only go so far, if you feel like you've compromised your own values or your own boundaries in the process. So it really must be a two way beautiful co creative space that you put together, in my opinion. But yeah, so you read the page, you apply if you want to. And I do want to provide an option for those of you who prefer to speak versus right. So you can absolutely like read all the questions and just send me loom video. Like it's not going to be it's not like a super, like I was going to do live video applications, all of that. But that that tech is a bit outside of my my zone right now. I'm so not a techy person, I need Birte!
Birte I
need you. Birte is one of our other members. By the way, if you're wondering like, who am I shouting out? But yeah, so if you want to do video application, they'll just probably be like a little, a little note underneath the Application button. It's like if you want to send in a video, just click on this button. So you know what the questions are, send me a loom at this email. And then we'll take it, I love it. We'll take that as an application as well. And actually, I do want to say why as well. So I was interviewed by a friend of mine. And she told me that she actually felt triggered by my application process, because I said that, depending on how they respond on the application, if it's like one word answers, and things like that, to me, that doesn't show that degree of interests. And she said to me, I actually find that very triggering. And I was like, oh, okay, could you tell me why, like if you're open to sharing, and she said, Yeah, I have dyslexia. So I am very good speaker. But when I write, the degree of articulation is severely diminished because of that. And I couldn't unhear that after I heard it. And I so appreciate her for being open with sharing that with me. And I can see oh, okay, that's another blind spot of mine, something I didn't consider. So that's why there is an option should people want to send in the video application? And then of course, they can book a call. No problem.
I love that so much. Can I add something as a participant thing that I enjoyed about the application process? It's, it's a, it's a bigger ticket item compared to things that I'd invested in before. And for me when things like that I make bigger investments, my imposter complex, and I know this term now from SVI, because before I would have lost the syndrome, so if you're like, oh, what does that mean? My imposter complex can get triggered, like, do I belong? Am I in the right place? All that kind of stuff are stories we tell ourselves when our brain runs away with us. And a little reminder for me was like, yes, you know, I chose to be here, but also make a choose me. Like, it's not just something that, you know, I put myself into, it's like I was vetted, I was accepted, I was invited. And that was a really big thing whenever my brain started, you know, going down that not good enough story that I'm sure everybody's brain goes through. But we're convinced were the only ones. It was something like, you know, not only do I choose to be here, but I was chosen as well.
I've let I'm so glad that you feel that way that you felt chosen because you were you are chosen. And I think that feeling may have come about because again, it's a two way street. And I will again put my stake in the ground to share. Yes, I do do this for myself as well. I need to know that I feel safe enough with the people who I choose to be a part of the circle, because that means I can go to the degree of depth that I originally intended. And if I find anything, even if it's my own stuff, which is why I am more than happy to recommend people to different to different coaches. If I feel that I'm not the one for them, because it really does do them a disservice. I'm like, "Oh, do you know I'm gonna bite my tongue and accept you anyway because I need the money?" No, like, there have been plenty of decisions where I could have made a lot more money. But to me, the cost is so much greater when it's a mental cost, knowing again, if I've taken someone on which, which has increased the financial abundance, but if it comes at a mental cost, that to me is so is so big. And, again, highly sensitive person. I'm a trauma survivor. I'm an introvert. So I'm like, Yeah, I really got to take care of my mental health. And so, yeah, I gotta go to these depths, not just for myself, but for other people is, again, it's a two way street.
Yes. 100%. So another question I have, what would you say is the overarching mission like in SVI, we do watch some videos, and there's some trainings and stuff about, you know, creating your mission, and you share ones that you like, but I've never actually asked you what's yours with for SVI? Oh, that's a really on the spot here.
Like data, I don't have my, what's it called? As something on a USB? Like, what's the USP of SVI? That's pretty, that's pretty much the question. It's an overarching mission. That's some something that I don't think I've articulated very well before, or maybe I haven't even just thought of it, because it's just kind of a thing that that got downloaded and in my brain and just birthed into the world. But the whole purpose of me even running this and the reason why I love it so much, is because it's something that always stays with you. Because it's not a prescriptive way of doing things. The approach may be somewhat like guided, yes, but I love that it's a space where people get to kind of really discover and explore their own way that works for them. And that will stay with them for the lifetime of their business a lifetime of their lives. Because there are some parts of this program, which can absolutely be applicable to your personal lives. Of course, we do focus a little bit more on business. But I love that this stays with you, it can never be outdated. So if anything, the whole purpose of this program is to discover what you're kind of like your timeless approach to showing up is
your timeless approach to showing up I love that. Yes, I love how you say it's not a prescription, because it's interesting. I can share as a participant, Mai-kee and Annie are really great about asking what your goals are at the beginning or your intentions or what you're hoping to get from SVI. And where the areas are that you might want some training. So they can direct you to a resource or potentially have a resource be created, if it's of benefit to many or that kind of thing. But when I'm just thinking back, like if I went back and looked at because I would have kept a copy because I'm one of those type A personalities. And I remember at the very beginning, I wanted to start my own podcast and a few other things. And it's kind of like what where I am now like as a result of all this and following the flow and the encouragement and of the antibodies and make a and that I absolutely love it. But it's not it's not the kind of programming be like the this is the checklist or this is the formula, as you said is not prescriptive. So I was curious about like, how you would describe the overall vision or mission for people who were like, you know, maybe more type A like me who would like to kind of what actually is it?
Yeah, I mean, it's the program is not for everyone. Because I appreciate the value that does come with prescriptive sort of a purchase, because it's like, oh, it's super simple. It's 123. Right? But because this process invites you to to co create with me like what your own path is, I'm just your guide. And so that's why if you say you want something, I'm gonna Okay, go for it. But if you say I don't want anymore, I'm like, okay, that's your decision. Because you're not meant to keep yourself accountable to me, you know, is that you don't need my gold star of approval. I'm happy to give as many gold stars as possible. But that's not the goal. The goal is for you to take accountability for yourself and to be in a space where you get to trip up and make mistakes and not shame yourself for it nor feel judged for it by other people. Because this whole point is like, Hey, I'm gonna fall flat on my face. Maybe if I try this new thing, but I love that each of you like come to these hot seats, for example, with your own when that to some it may seem like such a small thing, like opening up an Instagram account, for example, but to others. It can be like, Oh my gosh, I have stopped myself from doing this for years. But now finally done it. To me that's an incredible feat because it's No one else's path but your own. Like I'm I'm not putting us all at the same start of the race and going at the same pace. And another note is that you go at your own pace, so long as you find your own finish line, or actually, there is no finish line, really just find your own milestone points. And that's what I'm there for. I'm not there to dictate where those milestones are.
I love that. And also, it's all in the name, like sustainable visibility, because there can be some things that you're like, Oh, I'll try this. And it's great for like five minutes. And then you're like, This is taking my energy or this is taking a lot more time. And it's, it's finding and for me to the other thing with, with visibility with being seen, that I've learned over the past year is when you're seeing you're seen by everyone, not necessarily the people who are your ideal people, the people who get you. So I remember at the very beginning, I didn't have an Instagram account, like I had one as in I've had it for a few years I never posted on or anything else like Instagrams, not for me. And then I spoke to Mai-kee, about wanting to do reels. And then I sat on it for like six months. And then I was like, oh, programs ending. But to do a reel, it doesn't matter. Nobody will watch it anyway. And then as the time of recording is over 65,000 views was my big learning from that was delete, don't defend. So there is your comments that aren't necessarily, but back to the program. I think that's what I love about it. And for people listening, what I wanted to convey and want to hear your take on it, is having that space where it's not a prescription where we all do these exact things. But it's more meeting the participants where their art guiding them, I love to set guide to where they say they want to go, and then cause correcting, if you so happen to fall on your face as we all do.
Yeah, I mean, oh gosh, because I like to think, like we talked about this distinction before how I personally no longer look up to people, I look to people who are kind of further ahead. But I would be out of my mind, if I thought if I thought to myself, Oh, I am the one who's further ahead than everyone like in every single aspect because that is not true. There are plenty of different areas that each of you respectively bring that you are so much further ahead than me. And that is fine. Because I know that I know that my zone of genius is space holding like that is my thing. And I can help people like look into themselves and be around other people who look into themselves where they get to witness each other and all of that. And that is a whole learning process is so beautiful, right? So I really try to de-pedestalise myself, if If anyone puts me on a pedestal, I'm like, Nope, just gonna jump right off. Because it's really about centering your own experience, and just being around other people who are doing the same thing. But I love how each of you like each both pods, you look out for each other in ways that I didn't tell you, it was kind of like, in primary school, we got to be best friends with the person next to you on the register. Because you're gonna be seeing each other a lot. You can be best friends right now. So when you said earlier about this community feeling it's not forced, it just comes naturally. I do believe it's because of the approach of it is like, hey, we make the space together. I would be like one of the greatest compliments I've ever received about this program is when someone said, I feel like I'm held here. Because in other spaces, especially bigger ones who claimed which claim to be intimate. I feel like I've had to hold myself next to other people. And it's a very different feeling. And I've I was blown away, I felt so honored that this person felt held. Yes,
I can really relate to that. So the other thing I wanted to ask you've mentioned, we've talked about the hot seats, we've talked about the trainings, we talked about the coming of the private podcast. What about the integration retreats? Are they still going to be a thing in 3.0? And do you want to talk about them?
Oh, well, actually, the integration retreats they are. They were actually a recommendation from one of the one point o members, and the reason why they said like, Oh, could we have something like that? Is because the it was too. It was a bit unclear when it would move from phase one to phase two bit to phase three. And I was like, oh, okay, so it's kind of like in a marathon. There's just often like these tables where like people stop for a moment to have a drink. They have like the wet towel to kind of like this wet and all of that. It's kind of like a Okay, I'm gonna go back and run in a minute at my own pace. But for now, I'm just gonna rest here just kind of reflect on what I've done so far. And yeah, they very well may say this might change on the sales page. I don't know, it depends on people want it. But I do like the idea that is just kind of a clear transition from phase one, phase two to phase three, which I don't think I've actually talked about the phases.
No, it's just, that's fine. Because my next question is going to be because it's, I do love whether you keep the integration retreats was an all or not, but having that in the market in the way you described it with a marathon, not that I've ever run a marathon for me to finish marathon, I've been ambulance. I've seen them on TV, I know that, you know, the station, the break the the moment to transition, a transition point between the phases. So with that being said, can you talk to us about the phases?
Yes, absolutely. So this is something that has changed over the last two rounds. So it's going to look ever so slightly different, you're actually experiencing it in real time right now, which is I think it's just super meta, super cool. But yeah, this is just something that, again, I've learned because I really want to move away from prescriptive teachings as much as I can when it comes to business strategy. And the reason for that is because each to their own on whatever, whichever visibility strategy people want to kind of move forward with. So that's why I've actually, I'm developing like a bank of trainings and you self select which ones you want to do, if you want to start a podcast, there's a training on that, if you want to pitch podcast, I was training on that, if you want to do Instagram content, there's a training for that, you know, like, I want to have a bank of that already in the background. So you can just choose as you go. But I really wanted to change up phase two. But let me talk about phase one first. So phase one I'm calling I've called it unbecoming. And the reason why I call it that is because it's very much about stripping away the should's. And just I'm really going deep into yourself. So this is where we have our amazing guests. We have Tanya Geisler who comes in talk about imposter complex, for example, we talk about the capacity in terms of piggy banks, I've done it as cups before that, as piggy banks, it might be a different metaphor, who knows. But we talk about, you know, being very aware of our capacities, designing our boundaries. So all of that, before we even start placing ourselves out there, I don't like saying putting because putting feels very forceful placing sounds a lot more consensual. So before we place ourselves out there is us being very self aware of how much we can bring to the table at a given time, how that shifts when things happen. Because if we see, as ourselves are showing up as a very linear process, we're actually kind of not taking into account how much we change as life happens. So it's kind of like we need a plan for when we could put our best selves forward. We also need a plan where we can kind of sharp no problem. And we also need a plan when we're actually like our very, very, very max capacity, there's not much we can give, but we still are showing up in some shape or form. So I really liked the layered approach to showing up there. And we focused on all of that in phase one. So I'm becoming then phase two is when we start thinking about how we're going to place ourselves out there. So this is when you start self selecting trainings, you can watch in your own time, sometimes we have watch parties if they are training that everybody wants to kind of attend. So we've done watch parties before, which is super fun, which is where like I play a training, we're all there. And I'm there to pause it to answer any questions, etc, etc. But what I'm changing this time round, is phase two is going to be all about navigating leadership. So we've had conversations about this before about how we can hold space for others communities and how we can like really work with kind of like it's almost like we're intentionally catastrophizing a little, like what is the worst case scenario that could happen? Should we show up in a space actually wasn't safe for us. And it's really kind of like thinking that far ahead. So we have a plan in place to protect ourselves. So we navigate this leadership as we show up more, because whether you believe it or not, you actually are showing up more as a leader, the more you do and what comes with that, I think that we probably kind of just kind of hash out and when like, oh, this could work, this could work. It just kind of fingers crossing and guessing along the way. So really want to have these two as an intentional space where you both get to, you know, your shop more with the strategies that you want to move forward with, but you also talk about how it feels for you as you do that.
Love. And so that's phase two. And phase three is called active amplification. That's when you go all out with those strategies, but you get some practice time. So this is also another reason why I chosen such a small number, I've chosen eight people or less per pod, because each person is going to have the opportunity to run a mock workshop, or have a mock interview. And that is, so you get to practice the things you want to talk about your signature topics if you want to try a new idea, but you don't want to kind of use your your actual clients as a practice for something, you want to see how it actually lands. That is what your respective pod is for, it's there to witness you to hold you to provide feedback that you've asked for by raising your hand for this mock workshop interview. So again, you get a little bit more confidence instilled in you as you talk about your signature topics. So everybody is going to have an allocated slot should they want to, if people don't want to, they're more than welcome to just sit back and be, you know, a participant of someone else's interview or workshop. But I want everybody to be able to have a practice point. And that's not something that I've ever been given the opportunity for, inside of anyone else's program where you just get to practice, you run it as an official thing. But to practice it is a different sort of energy it comes with like that. What's this word that my friend uses? Scrappy, is that you get to crumb crumb, you get to come as your scrappy self, and kind of like, just try out ideas on the spot and not feel judged for it. Because you know that you're trying. That is what phase three is for, you get to practice you get to try. So when you do go out there in front of your own audience in front of other people, audiences, you would have already had some practice under your belt. Yes. So those are the three phases. And that's a big, big, big, big. Sort of, I don't even know what the word is, but
zoom out. But if you Yes, yes, yes,
zoomed out completely, they can see exactly what's entailed and all of the 3 phases. Because, yeah, I don't know how much of that I articulate on the sales page on time. So here you go.
You know, I love that. That gives me a lot more detail. I've been through it. But having been on the other side of it, and that the the signature of topics that you spoke about, we did very recently. And for me, as a participant as the presenter, the feedback I received wasn't what I anticipated. So there was it was it was really good and really valuable. And yes, the other thing I want to mention is there's a pie graph for a diagram or something that you show, and I'm sure you showed it quite close to the beginning with the unbecoming. It's like, where are the strategies that you're currently showing up? And are they like, I'm probably gonna butcher how you explain it. But like, you know, internal or external, or they go to people you already know, I'm warm or cold. There we go. So I'm not a business coach. Like warm or cold audience strategies and, and how much energy does it take. And then you've shown that same diagram a number of times throughout the program. And what's been valuable as a participant is seeing the iteration of my own business and the ones that I've leaned towards, and the ones that I've leaned away from, and I remember some of them in the beginning, when you first started, I was like, I'd never do that. Not that I had anything against it, but just didn't feel like it aligned that where I was, and then later on, it's like, oh, actually, I'm really enjoying that or I'm looking into that aspect. And that I think comes into the three phases because in unbecoming, it's like often well, I'm speaking from experience, I'm generalizing it but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done things in a certain way because that's what you've been told that you do in business. And when you come into SVI and you're like lovingly like I'm very blunt make I wouldn't say it like this but if I was a superfight how's that working out for you know, use that much more lovingly and carefully and gently but then it's kind of like then you can see all these other options and then have a look at I'd say cost benefit analysis but not in the you know, but you know, like what's the cost to not just your time but your energy your capacity when you talked about the piggy banks and Harvest Moon become and the yield and the crops and if you're missing the sort of what is she talking about? But it's not just like an ally pay you say, overarching with your program. It's not just how many bottoms Can I get in seats, look at me being all good with my language. maximize how much I can make, but creating this community creating this space that is a fit for both, but also like allowing that ripple effect into the clients as businesses. So we don't get stuck in this, we'll have things that don't feel aligned for us.
Oh, gosh, well, you made me super happy. We talked about Harvest Moon because that was one of my favorite trainings that I ran when. So for those of you who are like, Hey, excuse me, like we're still here, like you're talking in your own language. So Harvest Moon is a game that I played as a kid, and to be honest, as an adult, as well, every now and then. And basically, you run your own farm. And I use that as an example, because I really wanted to take the context of farming into visibility strategies, because there are some crops in the game that are regenerative, meaning that you plant it once and it yield several times in that season. And there are some crops that you only plant once and you and you yield it once, and it's done. Right. So you had to keep planting them. So the training was regenerative visibility strategies, and kind of like identifying which ones are your sweet potatoes, and which ones are your carrots. So sweet potatoes are regenerative in the game. And so I'm asking people, What are your sweet potatoes? Are you which strategy regenerates for you do it once and you get loads of yield from it? And what are the things that you kind of do it once but it kind of stays in that and it doesn't have any legs to carry through anywhere else. So for example, an Instagram story, if you don't put on a highlight, that could be an example of a carat because it's fleeting, it just goes into the ether of the internet, if you don't save it somewhere. But a podcast interview, for example, you record it once. And when it gets uploaded, right, the interview, it's it stays in on the ether of the internet, it can is searchable. Right? If you Google my name, there's at least eight pages of interviews on there because they regenerate. Right. And there was something else what what what? See this what happens when I talk about Harvest Moon, just that just kind of get away from me. There's something
people are showing up like warmer and colder. Was it that?
Yes. So for those who have no clue what Suzanne's talking about. And actually you wouldn't know unless you were in the program, because I don't really share this very often outside of private spaces. But giving away
all the secrets here today. You're welcome.
Interview interviewer? Yeah, so what's Suzanne's talking about is, is what I call my visibility expansion model. And is where I show the different quadrants of how one can show up in a in on your personal platform on someone else's platform, whether it's private, and whether it's public, and you're like, Wow, are you going to attend a workshop to find out what I'm talking about? But basically, I just illustrate different ways that you can show up, some people only like showing up privately. And it's because they're very self aware of how much they can take, should they receive some backlash. Right. And so when you're in private spaces, it's a lot more curated with a lot more trusted people. We have close connections to. So for example, running a workshop and one of my appears as mastermind, like I'm very grateful to receive that invitation a lot. So that the private space, so shout out to my friends to Zafira Rajan, for example, she's actually been a guest on this podcast, too. She's invited me into her mastermind, literally, I'm running it today, later on today. And I trust Zafira because we are we're both manifesto is actually in human design. And we're we're actually really good friends. And so I know that the kind of people she would attract into her space, because I know what her vetting process is like to, then I know, I'm going to feel safe enough to share more intimate things. But if I'm on a podcast, for example, with someone who I know, have, probably I'm not super besties with them, but I still feel like this collaboration could work. There are going to be some things I hold back from, from telling not because I don't know it, but simply because I'm aware of where, like how this information could be misconstrued. And the kind of backlash that could come back my way. And I know my capacity is very small when it comes to backlash, because again, super highly sensitive, and I'm just like, I don't really like feedback unless I ask for it. Because I think it's just unsolicited advice, which I'm not a huge fan of. So I think that far in advance when it comes to how much I show how much I share anywhere. And so that model, the visibility expansion model will help you self identify where you're currently showing up how it's doing for you, as you said, Suzanne, like how's it going for you? Where you might want to experiment and where you might want to contract in order to expand your capacity for different things. So it's very much a like a self identification, self awareness kind of model when you look at it It's not a linear thing. It's like it's very self selected that way. Because, again, this whole program is about you like really designing what's best for you.
I just want to add to that, and then I think we're getting towards the end. So two questions to ask before we finish. Oh, but I really want to say the visibility expansion model, I honestly think it's, it was worth the price of investment of the program to really understand that. Because it's honestly priceless. Because I know in business, I'm only speaking from my point of view, but I'm sure I'm not alone. It can really feel like throwing spaghetti at the wall or doing things because that's what's done. And it's like, but I feel like part of me is dying inside. And when you look at that, that visibility model and place yourself on there and see like, where am I now? And where do I have the possibility to grow? So the part that you spoke about, like speaking in other people's masterminds or programs, you spoke to that and you're saying, like, you could get paid for this, this was the very beginning, I was like, like, I'd get paid for that. Like, nearly a year later, I have done two paid trainings. And I have two more booked where I have been asked to present in people's masterminds have been paid for it. And you know, that there's that. And also, the other thing that you spoke to was when you said, I don't like feedback I haven't asked for because that's unsolicited advice, things like that, like, I felt very much like that before. But I never had some aside the stones to actually say, No, I'm not in a place to receive this, or thank you for thinking of me, but I don't want to hear it. And not make that feel like, you know, I should just be open to everybody. But to you know, have that that boundary in place to say actually, I don't want feedback, at least at this stage. Or, you know, because there's just, I'm so excited, my voice is getting ahead of my of my mouth, my brain, you when you're a little kid, and you really excited about something, and you just want to go and show everyone, and they're just they don't care. It's just learning to choose your audience that you that you show the thing to and having that space where you can be like, Oh, come on your website, or I just did a real check it out. And they're gonna be like, yes, but your cheerleaders with that not what's she doing now? That something really valuable from the program?
I think both I love, I love where you kind of tripped over your own words, because you're just so excited, let's you appreciate what you said about the model. Like really understanding that was actually the whole course of the program and how it felt worth investment for you. And by the way, I'm not shying away from sharing what the investment is. So something different actually, that I'm going to be doing for the third round may not be for the fourth round, we shall see. But I'm actually going to be offering different tiers, because I realize that not everybody necessarily wants private time with me. So everybody so far in 1.0, and 2.0, I've had personal access to me on Voxer or slack, because if you if you like writing, then slack Voxer, you can also write but it's mainly as a walkie talkie. So the voxer access and one on one coaching calls, if you want that, then there will be that Tier for you. And that's going to be a 10k USD. And of course, there are extended payment plans, like 12 months, maybe even 18 months if you ask for it. So that is tier one. But I'm only I only have the capacity to do that for five people. Right? And when those five spots are gone, and they're gone, if at all. But there's going to be another tier that I'm going to call, I think I've called it the yes, it's so the private access. One is called a curation tier because it's a lot more curation because of that private access to me. But if you feel like you don't need that, and you're really just want to be stuck in with the community and like just really go from there, then there's a community tier. And that basically comes with all other things except from the private access and the one on one coaching calls. But I'm still going to be there, it's intimate enough that I will respond to you know, wherever you post in Slack, which is our is our community hub of communication. So I'm not going to be like oh bye! like after every single call, like I will respond, like in Slack, but with regards to like private messages unless it's just something you want me to know. Like just want me to witness. That's fine. I'm happy to acknowledge that but for actual coaching through these one on one messages in between calls that will be for the curation tier only. But the community tier, you get the community feel but you still get some degree of access to me but just not so much one on one and that is going to be at 7500. So 7500 USD again, extended payments plans available. So that's different, because I really wanted to acknowledge that not everybody necessarily wants that one on one. So and I know my capacity now is five. So I'm like, Okay, I could do that for five people. And there are 11 other spots in the communities here, I guess. But you don't need to worry about the allocation of stuff. I will be very clear when there are no spots left. So I love that I
love the price. Transparency is another thing that I really loved about working with you. I'm the same I have my prices upfront everywhere. And just random fact five is also my capacity for what would be my curation. I call it my VIP. But I don't really like that anymore. Because it makes everyone else not feel important. But anyway.
Can we talk about that for a minute? I'm like, I don't know how to make. Oh, I just felt like curation felt like, it felt less personal. Like personally directed, if that makes sense. It's like, it's more curated, should you wants this, but it's like VIP under the red velvet rope. There you go. But everybody who's not part of it, you go you're still on a dance. But I don't like that feeling. That's why like, I want to shy away from I get I get it I like most people notice in the in the coaching industry anyway, the whole VIP day feel like, I get it. But unlike that everybody's important to me, though.
100% I've been toying with this idea for quite some time now. Because it's like, What's everyone else? Like? They're important too. But curation? I don't know. It's something but I did try for a while, like having like, you know, platinum, and diamond like, and then I was like, it just got confusing. So yeah, I feel you've access what, in whatever way that you want to describe it, like more one to one access or one to one support? So
yes, exactly. And actually what you said there about the Platinum and the gold and all of that. It may be confusing, but you know, what's, what's involved in it? But also, because I think we are so accustomed to seeing this out in the industry where actually, these different tiers are very hierarchical. Yes. And you just so much. Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, how it's the same with the whole looking up versus looking to people looking up. Again, you're, you're reinforcing this hierarchical, like division between you and someone else. If you if you look forward to someone, you're actually on the same level, it's just a different distance that you've kind of like gone to. And that's the same reason why I never called the pods like A and B, one or two. It's because I'm like, No, I want to remove the whole hierarchical thing. So I'm like fruit, fruits are pretty neutral.
I hope. So it's kind of like, you know, it's an extra as in there is more involved. It's kind of like the pizza, and then the pizza and garlic bread. Or vegan pizza and garlic bread. Anyway, but you know, like, so it's just, it's just more access when there is more input, but not, as you said, hierarchical? It's not your any, any less important, any less valued, or? Yeah, it's something and I think anyone who is listening who's nodding and laughing like you get it.
Yeah, yeah. Because I don't know. It's, it's just when I'm on the receiving end a moment Oh, like, if I don't want anyone to ever feel like they're less important to me, because of how much they can pay. That that's the biggest thing. So that's why I would I really hope that this comes across to anybody who's interested in joining, by the way that the curation tier is only if you want more of me is not about me wanting more or less of you, is whether you want more of me. Yeah,
can I just add, we didn't have these tiers in 2.0. But there was you get heaps of Mai-kee in whichever because a few times you've said like, do you want to book your one on one, like I get one I was like, I've read the agreement, and I've read all that stuff. But that program itself is totally inclusive. And there's so there's so much to it that you don't necessarily would read requiring extra though I do love the Voxer support. I'm the voice note person slack, I'm just like, written no. So you know, and it's just choosing what's going to be most supportive of you, rather than it's gonna be a different experience.
Thank you for saying that. And you've already experienced like one on one naturally, when you're when you're the only person who's able to show up for a call, for example, because you know, our pods have been very small. But actually I do want to loop back very quickly before we start to wrap up. There the also another reason why I chose an eight for the max number of people per pod is because of the allocation of time that I have for hot seats. 90 minutes. And I want to make sure that everybody has at least like 12 minutes or so per person. And that doesn't sound like a lot. But you'd be surprised how much you can, how much can come out? And because if there are more people, because recently because these, the pods and 2.0 have been quite small, everybody has been able to kind of like freely process and find their question as they're processing. But to respect everybody's time, and so that no one person that monopolizes the time of everybody else, there will be like just like a mini process before hot seats, just let letting me know beforehand who wants one or not. So that way, I know how much time gets allocated, I just like divide the 90 minutes by eight, or however many numbers of people want that. So that way I know how to time, my responses and how I guide the whole process. But I never wanted to exceed the number where it feels like everybody has to race for a spot every get the pre allocated spot, unless you want to opt out and just witness for that time. So that's also another reason why I kept it so small.
I love that. I love that so much. And yeah, it's something about that time space and being able to step in, and yeah, awesome. So as we wrap up, I've got two questions. That I'd love to ask you. So we all seem to be on the receiving end. So Mai-kee, what makes you a quiet rebel?
Oh, gosh, do you know? Now I don't have I guess. I don't know. You know, this, this answer honestly changes all the time. The reason why I chose the word quiet is not because of I don't want that to indicate a lack of impact, or a lack of presence in any way. The reason why I chose to work quiet is because I don't believe that the people who make a difference in this world are only the people who are super loud, they grab the microphone at any chance they get and just kind of like bulldoze over anyone else's experiences or thoughts or opinions. I like to believe that the whole quiet part of the rebellion is that it's very Invitational, it's not like, Hey, we're here, we're going to kind of like, not the status quo, because like the status quo works for some people, right? It just doesn't work for all of us. And so I believe that the whole quiet rebellion is just expanding the space outside of the status quo, and inviting anyone else along. Who resonates with that. So I feel like it's less forceful. And it's a lot more Invitational, it's kind of like, I don't know what the word is. But it's kind of like, word of it's like word of mouth, almost like the word of mouth invitations, that it's not publicly promoted all the time. It's just like, if you hear about it, and you like it, then you go along to it. And that's all it is. And that's the kind of people that I know that I attract to my community. Everybody is so considerate. Everybody is always questioning, and they're always curious about what other ways things could be done, they're not discounting, what can be done, or what, quote unquote, works. But they're curious about how something else could work differently, because how things currently are. It doesn't agree with them, it feels out of integrity for them a lot of the time. And so they're like, Hey, we're just gonna experiment here. So we're all over here, just experimenting, exploring, getting curious. And those are the kinds of people who I deem as quiet rebels.
I love that the curiosity piece really resonates with me because as a child that wasn't encouraged. And the other question is, what's one weird fact or fun story that no one knows about you on the internet?
Ah, very good question. Oh, I'm looking around for cues in my room, like, is there anything that have not sold?
Now understand how my friend Ry Schwartz felt he was my first ever guest on this on this podcast. And he and he, he actually has publicly shared this on his Facebook by the way, so this is not like, information that isn't meant to tell. But he says like, oh, I agonized for good or six minutes of silence before I answered me, and I'm not sure how many minutes you're gonna be here for Suzanne.
Oh, God, I was really struggling with it. Do you know what I Okay, this one's pretty personal. But I'm looking at this photo of my partner and I right now it's my polaroid is actually quite a sweet thing that came out of quite a really teary sort of confession that I had to do as my partner. That you know, there's a time where you feel like you can't adult that day. And it makes you question what you're capable of. And I think, again, back to myself when I could adult a particular day, I think I was also on my cycle, as well. So I think I was extra hormonal. But I don't want to discount the feeling in itself. I thought to myself, if I can't do this, then how on earth could I be a mum? Oh, and I questioned my ability all the time. Like it like I need to get my shit together. Because if I don't, how am I going to be when the babies arrive? And my heart sank at the thought of not being ready and missing my time to have them. And I was crying my eyes out. My partner was just listening. And my amazing, amazing cat, Luna, she was looking outside of the windowsill at this time, but as soon as I said, out loud, I don't know if I'll ever be ready to be a mum. I kid you not Suzanne. She was looking out the window. But she turned around, she meowed. She came directly to me. She nuzzled my hand. And she nestled in my lap. Oh, and my partner was just watching in awe like all of this happen in real time. She was like, that actually just happened. But I, my cats are amazing. And I was upset over another thing the other day. And Loki my other cat. So they're both siblings, Scottish streets, champagne color, if you don't know. But I was also upset about something I can't recall what it is. But I was definitely really, really upset about it. And then he did something similar. He was actually on my partner's lap, saw me started crying. And then he came over to me and he's actually in the less affectionate cat towards Me like Luna is normally like my go to cat because she comes to me, but Loki, when he shows affection, he really means it. So he came to me, he nuzzled my hand and he just kind of like curled himself in my lap. So I feel like my cats are very aware of, of my emotions. And I talked about how much I love my cats all the time, but not about why they are so sweet. So I don't think I've shared that out anywhere else on the internet. All I can say is that I love my cats. They're very responsive to my emotional needs. But also Yeah, I do have this deep seated fear sometimes if I don't make enough money, or I don't have a certain pillar of success in time. I feel like I'm not worthy to be a mother. But that's because of the standard that I hold for myself which is actually pretty damn high. But my both my therapist and that like some of my other peers who I've shared this with they say to me there are plenty of incredible moms who don't have super successful businesses and and things like that so that don't let that be the thing that makes you think you're worthy or not to have children. Yes. Oh,
thank you so much for sharing that make I have like chills and it's so beautiful. And I think these are the things that we we don't share because we feel we're alone or because we Yeah. Thank you
quite the emotional part of that. Thank you. We
finally finish up Was it anything else that you wanted to share? To say?
Just Just thank you. I really appreciate that. Well, this was your idea first of all. I love this conversation. I loved all the different directions that we went to and I loved how open you were with your experience but also Just how we always looped it back to everybody who's listening right now, who may or may not be interested in joining the future round. So I just want to say thank you. And for anybody who's listening, this whole program came about from my own quiet rebellion. I remember saying to one of my best friends, so her name is Gabby Woltz, so shout out to Gabby. That was a conversation we had about the current state of the industry and how they view visibility in a very to me personally, it can be always can be pretty transactional, is that the more you're out there, the better. And again, I saw it through the lens of trauma. And I thought to myself, no more is not always better. Because if you do not have the support and access to resources, to help you through a backlash, to help you through a time where your boundaries are broken, or when you are re traumatized or triggered or anything like that, then no more is not always better. And I really wanted to create that space where we get to acknowledge that, and you get to work with that, not against that. So if you've ever felt out of integrity with your own self, or you feel like you've had to self betray in order to appease someone else's prescriptive way of doing things, let svi be the place where you get to discover what's right for you and you only and to be around other people who care about that. Because something that we said often today about boundaries in hot seats. The reason why I always asked like the person on the hot seat, like would you be open to hearing anybody else's shares? Should they have anything to say it's because I'm getting you used to reinforcing what's right for you in that moment? Where you get a practice reinforcing boundary that without in your word Suzanne because your your your Can you say your tagline? Because I think it's like, perfectly appropriate here.
Which one being bourndaried AF? If
saying no without seeming like,
deliberately trying to keep my language very PG,
oh, no, this is gonna be marked explicit. Because I've already said ass and shit. So
like, it wasn't me. tagline is helping women say no, without feeling like a bitch. Yes.
So I hope that that is also a place where you can feel like you can like stake your claim with your own boundaries of what you need at a given time and not feel like a bitch about it or not feel like whatever alternative for bitch that you think could be appropriate? I don't know. But anyway. Yeah, that's all I can say about SVI. It's a place where you get to discover we get to be curious where you can fall flat on your face, and we will help you up unless you want to get off yourself, which is fine. But yeah, that is my quiet rebellion to the industry, which may not always have our best interests at heart and honoring our intersections of our identity and our lived experiences as well. So that's what I have to say.
Thank you so much. Okay, thank you everybody for listening.
Thank you so much everyone. And so again, if you are interested in learning more about SVI 3.0 or beyond, so, it is the beyond part there are some features in this episode, which may or may not be applicable to 4.0 onwards. I mean, I will say for 4.0 onwards, I am thinking of integrating a live retreat in there, just so you get your honeybuns on that waitlist, if you are interested is www.Maikeetsang.com/apply if it's outside of the application period that will take you to the waitlist, so don't worry about the whole change of links or anything like that. All of that is in the show notes. But do want to say thank you so much for listening. And thank you so much, Suzanne, for being our guest host today. It was super, super fun.
