The theater of energy activism interview with David Schwartz, Episode 74. David Schwartz is a theatre director, lecturer and activist. He holds a PhD wrote and produced plays focused on the impact of energy prices, and the shuttering of coal mines in Romania. Welcome to the My energy 2050 Podcast, where we speak to the people building a clean energy system by 2050. I'm your host, Michael LaBelle. This week, we have a special guest, at least from my perspective with David Schwartz. Because here we examine the theater in relation to the energy sector. So how does the theater fit within the energy transition, as policymakers are discovering society does matter. And unfortunately, this is more true in some countries than others. David's focus on Romania deals with the economic transition that the people have experienced. His productions highlight the plight of people unable to afford the bare essentials to exist in a modern society. And then really, the transition from Communism to capitalism has really brought out this disparity between the different types of systems and the impact of pee on people. From my experience, when I think about the policymaking and promises that come from national politicians, and even at the EU level, I often think about what is the real impact on the ground for people on the economic margins, David has created plays reflecting these personal and local struggles. On one hand, David comes across as a radical instigator of performative art. But as you'll hear, in part of our conversation, he takes the real experiences of people who present it through theatrical performances, and what is more true than the real experiences of people or even fictional representations drawn from real experiences. I think as an academic, I often get caught up in policy or technology aspects of the energy transition. And I don't know I don't see those that suffer in energy poverty. When we hear about big policies and money to assist vulnerable groups like that, in the EU social climate fund, it's planned to be 87 billion euros, and there's all these big plans for it. Well, I have my serious doubts about how this money will be distributed. For my conversation with David, you'll also get an impression he likewise holds limited faith in governments and how it properly assists citizens. I think the theater plays an important role in bringing out the need for greater assistance and a focus on I would say humanity, and the role that the energy system plays in people's lives. When I say you'll hear part of our conversation, I have to admit, I had a bit of a technical difficulty with part of the interview. So I didn't get like essentially the middle part of our conversation. So I apologize, both David and you for this failure. But I can certainly attest to David's in depth knowledge and research skills that collecting and understanding how people experience and suffer from energy bills, that the fact that he brings this to the stage demonstrates his skills in capturing social phenomena that we often only read about and is hard to experience. So my profound respects goes out to David and those working with him to raise this issue in a more engaging format that is usually emotionally detached from reality. And before we begin, I want to thank Roxana bukata for putting me in touch with David and all her work in organizing the other interviews I've done in Romania or I did in Romania in November 2022. A final note, this interview was done for my 2022 role as an open society University Network Senior Fellow at Chatham House, the Royal Institute of International Affairs. Funding was generously provided to produce the podcast for the episodes recorded in 2020 and 22. So I still have a few more in my back pocket, and I'm releasing those now. And now for this week's episode. I'm here today with David Schwartz, theatre director here in Bucharest, and David, we'll just get right into it. We've had a great conversation walking around working to find the cafe. My first question to you is, how did you? I mean, I don't know how to say this because usually I interview people work in academia and policy. But what you do and what you write about in the arts area, I think is really relevant for the podcast and this is why I wanted to talk to you today. So how did you begin in the field of arts maybe I'll frame it like that.