Get Happy & Healthy With The Happy Pear Co-Founder, Stephen Flynn

5:35AM Nov 25, 2022

Speakers:

Angela Foster

Intro

Stephen Flynn

Keywords:

people

eat

typically

angela

dave

guess

sunrise

day

life

called

friends

twins

diet

terms

healthy

business

feel

amazing

health

bit

So we all know that we need to eat lots of healthy leafy greens, though we need to have more vegetables, that we need to eat kind of fermented foods to optimise the health of our gut and have prebiotic and probiotic rich foods that we can have things like mushrooms and different adaptogens really to support our adrenal function because we're under more stress than ever before. But wouldn't it be amazing if you could find all these things in one easy drink to help you kind of like, I like to think of it as a kind of insurance policy. So I still eat all my vegetables, all my fruit and all the good things I need to do. But then there are just sometimes those days where you're just rushed off your feet and you don't quite manage to eat as well as you should. Or you just want to really get extra results and have that glowing clear skin. And that's why I love athletic greens so much. It is so tasty. It's so easy to make. It works super well on an empty stomach because it really enriches the health of your microbiome. And it tastes amazing. And so it's something that I personally take every single day and they are running an amazing offer for listeners of this podcast. You can get a year's supply of vitamin D and five free trouble bucks if you head over to athletic greens.com forward slash Angela Foster. That's athletic greens.com forward slash Angela Foster.

Head straight to both America slash rove went to Burning Man went to polyamorous communities went to meditation centres went to anything weird and wonderful. All with the goal of trying to find out where was my where was the place in society that I felt like this is where I fit.

Welcome to the high performance health podcast with your host Angela Foster. The show where we talk about everything you need to break through limits and achieve a high performance, mind body and lifestyle.

Hi friends, sometimes when you connect with someone, their energy is just so vibrant, and so wonderful that you just want to be around them more. And that was definitely the case with today's guest. I sit down with Steve from the happy pair to yo he and his twin brother Dave started out back in 2004, they opened a tiny shop with a dream of helping people to eat more veg. And now fast forward 15 years and it consists of two cafes, shopping greystones 60 different products, numerous online courses, five best selling cookbooks, a farm Roastery and a community of over a million people that they're leading to live healthier and happier lives. And his energy is incredible. It's a mission driven business. And our conversation today is so wide ranging from his relationship with his identical twin brother and how they really support each other. How he called the happy pear came to be and how he went on this journey of self discovery at the age of 21 and moved away from the kind of masculinity of playing rugby to kind of find himself and what that journey was on where it led him. We talk about cold water swimming, we talk about having fun, we talked about the best forms of exercise, we talk about why plants are so good for you. and healthy. We talk about longevity and Blue Zones. And we talk about how to develop resilience. And really his best tips for making a success of any venture that you want to succeed in this is such a fun interview. As I say it is packed with content. So without further delay. Let me introduce you now to the lovely Steve, from

Steven, it's so amazing to have you here today. I'm really, really excited to record this interview with you. I'm so inspired by everything you do everything you share on Instagram, it's all kind of well, what I love about your content is a you're inspiring people to eat a healthier lifestyle to take a healthier lifestyle and eat more plant based foods. But also you're just very real with the whole thing when I look at your posts around kind of resilience and not going on a busman's holiday and things like that. So first of all, we can dive all into that, but a very warm welcome to the show. Thanks, Angela.

Delighted to be here.

Yes really goes beyond how did the let's start with how did the happy pear come about? Because I know it's very kind of mission driven. Yeah, cool. So

we're in business 18 years now at the end of this month. So we're on I say I speak off and in the plural because I'm an identical twin. So if I do at least that references, but I'm Steven and my twins David and identical twin, we're 99.9% genetically the same were technically mirror twins. So I'm left handed and he's right handed. And so we kind of grew up in a family of four boys went to all boys school, played a lot of rugby, kind of excelled at macho activities, you know, playing sport playing rugby, playing any any sport we clicked, but it was very masculine in its energy output. And you know, we weren't typically to go to an all boys school. It generally is not an environment where it guys sit around and talk about their feelings. Typically guys trying to impress one another to show who's the alpha. So we are pretty good at that. And finish skill weren't really sure of what we were that interested in and went and studied business and university. And at the time, when we finished university, we were playing semi pro rugby, we were both scratching golf, we were playing baseball for art, and we are modelling we're doing, you know, we're we're really doing the high achievement road that, you know, achievement and material success will bring joy, fulfilment, meaning and happiness, and did but on a deeper level, that was kind of it felt a little bit hollow, and it kind of made us question, you know, what are we doing this for, you know, retrospectively, I can articulate that, but at the time, it just, it felt a little, like, there's gotta be some more to life. So remember that Christmas, we had just done a marathon previously, like a few months previous, and we kind of did a detox for a month. So for that month, we kind of, and this is back in 2001. So at the time, detox wasn't a word that was commonly used in our general everyday dialect or everyday language. It was it was people didn't know what it was the internet was just coming out, you know, in terms of its wide range reach 710 for local bookshop, the library and ask, Do you have a book on detox, because you didn't have the internet? And they said, we don't have one in but there's one in Dublin and IgD here in a week, and I said, Great. So we got a book on detox, read a lot more skimmed over and kind of realised Okay, day we're going to give up eating junk food, no sugar, and this was a big thing. No points. That points about. Okay. Okay, cool. Let's do it. So we did for three weeks, because we hadn't really trained hugely for the marathon. And we thought if we do this detox, we are going to be incredible. As we did the detox to the marathon, all went grand. We finished the marathon it all felt great. And we felt kind of more ourselves, it kind of gave us one a sense of purpose to we had more money in our pocket to it felt like the first time we were kind of paddling or oak on canoe, we weren't necessarily going with societal norms, because for a 21 year old is going to give up alcohol and just start eating healthy, for no particular reason was kind of going against the grain. And we felt pretty cool. We felt great. Like not cool, is it we're cool people now because we're doing this but we felt cool, because for ourselves, it felt like this is this is this feels real. Although it's hard to remember we decided we're going to meet our friends that December to go get pissed together. That's kind of most about me at the time. Anyway, just the way we all socialised. And I remember we hadn't drunk for two and a half months and we rock up me and date to meet the lads, you know, and this is really like a pack a lot. So it's kind of like, you know, small names, and kind of all binding your chest and trying to be heroic. And I remember we ordered our first point stood there at the bar, took a sip or two just didn't feel right. And we left and went home early. And it was kind of like something changed in us and I remember that December deciding to go away travelling I said it today Dave buying a one way ticket to Canada. I want to go and find out you know, I'm not coming back until I'm happy and you're not coming with me. And as an identical twin. This was like declaring divorce. And Dave at the time, then he bought a ticket to go to South Africa he went to explore being a golf pro. And I went to Canada just to explore I guess to expose myself to different ways of life and to remove myself from my societal norms like anyone listening you grow up in your town you're told by your parents you're told by your teachers you're told by both the role models you see in the media as in what you should do to be happy and what it means to be happy and I can articulate this retrospectively at the time I was just following my nose it was like I don't feel satisfied I need to get out of here I need to find somewhere where it can just be more socially fluid where I don't have to be I'm Steven Flynn identical twin did this and business did this degree did this is good at this. This is the box that I'm in I wanted to find a new box and I guess back then there really wasn't social media. So I didn't you weren't there wasn't this digital shadow that followed you around there was like you literally had your writing kinda it was like a critical of myself, John. I could have. I didn't have to be this Ruby playing Jack. I could be a hippie I could be anything. So when I arrived there, I went to Whistler which is this cool party tent and instal I

love Whistler. Yeah. Beautiful place. Yeah. stunning, beautiful. Christmas as well. A beautiful,

beautiful place. And you know, when I was there, I met a guy from gravestones. It didn't have much money. He said he could sleep on his floor. So I was like, great and Whistler. At least when I was there working there. There was a lot of parties, a lot of people kind of beautiful people. It was really like wow, this is cool. And I consciously decided, no, you're not doing that. You've done that before, like do something different. So I kind of found a bunch of people who are also interested in food and curious and food. I spent most of my time down in the library, borrowing books and vegetarian cooking. And I used to kind of hitchhike down to Vancouver, which is about a two hour hitchhike to go and barley and I come all the way back up the sludge in the rain all excited wage strike barn this is going to be mind blown because we grew up being a standard meat to beds diets it was like headless barley

is such an unusual story of like you know rugby player turned up giving up a giving up alcohol and now turning like vegan or vegetarian and just researching it's just Yes amazing 21 as well

yeah 21 So like I spent the next kind of few months experiment with diet and you know how it has affected the way I felt because the first time I remember going eating lunch I had like 10 different vegetables thinking or oh my god, I'm going to be like superhuman now and I'm kind of waiting for it to kick in what when is this like great feeling and a kick in, you know, this kind of ignorance idea, but I guess it's not one meal that's suddenly going to make you healthy and happy. It's kind of the cumulative effect of it. So I spent the next couple of probably the next year just travelling around North America hitch I can do anything that was weird and wonderful. And largely at the crux of it was diet. I kind of changed my diet from eating a standard Irish diet as in meat to veg burgers and chips loads of pints didn't really think of what I ate to suddenly eating a plant based diet Tina starting with a vegetarian diet, then go vegan then go and roll. The men experiment with fasting cleansing enemas. Anything weird and wonderful. Kind of hitched rides across America slept growth, went to Burning Man went to polyamorous communities went to meditation centres went to anything weird and wonderful, all with the goal of trying to find out where was my where was the place in society that I felt like, this is where I fit. And I remember maybe, maybe it was six months after that I was living in France and I was up in Corsica and Ireland or France. I'd been cycling around for about a month on my own on a bike kind of sleeping rough. And I did a five day water fast up on an on the top. Of course, like I remember afterwards, getting back to a city and filming day. And I think Dave was in Central America at the time. And I called him, Gabe had this great idea. Do you want to start like a food revolution? And yeah, that was kind of the start of the happy pair. It was kind of like there was a local greengrocers, in our in our little town and gravestones. And I walked in one day and asked him what he said on the show. And that was the start of the happy

again. And Dave, Dave was on board with it straightaway with you because you went on this journey of self discovery, which a lot of people don't do that. Yeah, right. That's actually really enlightening. How was he when you kind of just called him up after having all these experiences and approached him with it?

Yeah, I think twins are, at least in our experience of being a twin. So much of our lives is intertwined. Like so much of what we do happens in sync. So here's kind of thing was, I don't know what you mean by food revolution. But I'm your twin, of course, it won't work. And so that was really it. I guess we always knew that. There's a great synergistic effect of being twins. It's kind of like one plus one can equal five when you're working together. And so we've found that when we're together, I don't know you tend to you tend to blow smoke at each other's say in a blog. When did you do that sale and you feel like, oh, here we go. It's kind of exciting. Wonderful.

So awesome. So you started there with the with the process.

So we started with a fruit and veg shop. And it's kind of spawned in many different ways, because we've been in business 18 years now. And at the moment, we have two cafes, and sourdough bakery, two farms. So we have a sprout forum, we have a four acre regenerative organic farm, we've a coffee roastery, we've about 80 products and about 1000 stores around Ireland. We've written six best selling cookbooks, we have an app, we have online courses. So the business has kind of gone in directions. Yeah, we probably have not probably we've kind of over a million followers across different platforms and social media. So the business has gone into loads of different ways. And it's a wild beast, and we love it, adore it. And it's such fun, and it gives us such meaning and purpose.

Yeah. And I think the passion really comes through that's the thing that could can can really feel it. I saw you posting actually about you know, people often give up right just when they're so close. And it's almost like when every when it feels like things aren't working. And I'm sure you've experienced this along the way right to to manifest that tremendous success. There must have been times where you doubted it wasn't going to happen. Could you really turn it into what you wanted to? What would be your advice to anyone who's kind of really trying to bring something new out there something that's kind of their baby that they're looking to develop? And they feel like it's not quite working? How can they kind of dig deep?

Yeah, it's kind of like, I guess firstly, I'd say make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. Because if it's, you know, when when times are tough, if you're only doing it for money, you probably won't persevere unless you don't have any and you've no other excuse. So it's kind of like, if you don't have a plan B well then it's like you are are all in sorts to try to kind of move away from having Oh, if this doesn't work, well, I can always get a job in the bank. It's kind of like, No, I can't, this has to work. So then you'll stick through because there was many times like many, many, many times, like the business is nearly gone and are like so many times. But it's like, having, I guess, experiences so many times, if you can persevere through that moment of like, when it's really challenging. Typically, there'll be like a step change suddenly to go like, wow, I know when this is gonna happen. Like I remember, back about nine years ago, I remember we were having a really tough time, like sales were down in the cafe, you know, just seemed hard yards. Like we were struggling to make payroll to pay our team, you know, how are we going to pay suppliers, it was just, it was hard. And I remember at the time, we were working on a cookbook, and we went into med penguin Ireland, and we kind of agreed we do a cookbook. And they typically said, if you're a chef that has a TV show yourself that 2000 copies, and that I know you don't have a TV show, and I know your book is vegetarian or vegan, but we're gonna print 6000 copies, and you know, we'll sell them in your shop over the next 10 years. It's like, okay, yep, that's a great idea. And it's like, we're quite nervous and really didn't want to let penguin because, you know, it was it always just had this symbol. You know, we grew up reading Roald Dahl needed blood. And I was like, I don't want to let these people there. And the book came out. And it came out at around the time when when we were really struggling, like really having a tough time. And we didn't know what was going to happen with the book. And I remember, I was waiting Spain at the time. And I found Dave that day, Dave, like, what am I missing, and he couldn't get over that someone had got up and drove them two hours to get him to write his name. In a book, I was like, Oh, my God, they want me to write my name. Is couldn't get over. And when the book came out, within six weeks, those 6000 copies have sold. And by Christmas, it was the best selling cookbook, it came in October. And by Christmas was the best selling cookbook in Ireland that year. And it continued on for another year, subsequently as the number one best selling book, or cookbook. So it kind of that really was a great, I guess, example of how you if you can just persevere through those tough times. Like it's often said, like, I know it's a total cliche, but the darkest hour is just before dawn and at similarly, it's so many times, just to be Sunday Times in the cafe where even I could be cooking, and you have to have your made eight by 12 and 1130 are gone. I do not know what way This dish is going to come together. I have a concept. It's all over the place. But you kind of have to just trust the process that come 12 o'clock. It just amazingly comes together and people ask you like, what did you put into your kind of like, coinsurance just kind of happened. And it's kind of like, it's a reminder of just trusting the process that anything worthwhile. There has to be resistance, there has to be obstacles. And if you can just persevere and have the ability to adapt and pivot where required. It's amazing what can be achieved

is amazing. And I think I don't know, if you're I'm a big fan of Steven Pressfield. He wrote, you know, turning pro and The War of Art. And he just said the beginning of The War of Art, he just lists out everything that you'll encounter resistance and how it's this insidious force within right, the thing is, it's always there, but it's actually kind of inside you more than anywhere else. And anything that's worthwhile doing. But you'll always encounter resistance, whether as a mission driven business, or you're just trying to get really good abs, right? There's always gonna be resistance to the things you you should do and want to do.

And that's part of it. I think we have to as we become such a comfortable society that we see resistance or struggle or adversity as bad. It's like, that's part of the process, anything worthwhile we need, the more we can move towards, like, Yeah, bring it on, and not in an arrogant kind of macho way. But it's like, you know, not and I'm not saying to wallow in it. But it's like, the more we can appreciate as part of the process. And we understand that this is the journey. This is how we get to where we want to be, the more it's it doesn't seem like Oh, poor me, I'm struggling. I think that's something at least that I've been working on anyway.

Yeah, for sure. It's harder to do, isn't it? I guess, like when you were talking nine years ago, it's a bit different than when you started out and it was you and your brother and you weren't responsible for anyone, right? Then you have a family, and you've got a business and you've got all these employees and you're thinking God I might make might not make payroll, you're thinking about them, their families, you're thinking about your own family? How do you kind of mentally get your get your head around that situation?

would get my head around that? I think it's a matter of there has to be some degree of trust that if I'm trusting your team, because now our team has kind of expanded from me and Dave at times, it was 200 of us now we're down to about 80 to 100. So it's kind of it feels more smaller and more like I know everything within the business. And but I guess there's a case of just trusting in what we're doing, believing in it and like you The other day, we were driving down here to parallel to the office of the parallel. That's where I am right now. And I remember we were driving down the road and gravestones and there was this we're driving it, it was kind of easy playing in the car and someone just shouting and shouting at the top and voices like someone shouting about your turn over, there's this girl running down the road screaming that boasts which was about 200 metres ahead of her. And she was screaming, stop that boss and run a dead screaming it. And four cars ahead of us started to slow down and she started to run into both telco. And the cars actually started to stop to stop the bus. And it was just an eventually like password for like a while after that, we got into the car to pick up her passport wallets are willing to give it to her. But it was just such an example of like, when you really truly want something and you're willing to risk everything for it. You can achieve it, but I think so many of us are afraid of it. We're waiting for that, like, you know, someone to come and discover us. Whereas in reality, like if we really do want something, when we do commit it, and we do kind of put it out there and we do kind of seek support, seek help and like, just go for it. It's amazing what one can achieve. And at times like that, you gotta call friends, you're struggling you gotta call on other people, and no one wants to do but if you're really committed to what you're doing, you'll always find a way

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I know that you have a lot of practices as well that you do that actually help with resilience. I mean, getting up and swimming in cold water at sunrise in the middle of winter in Ireland is pretty resilient. As you know, I'm kind of all about biohacking and cold exposure is definitely one of those things. But tell me about that. And because there's a real community around this, right, it's not just actually that cold. Now you've built a community around that. How do you kind of psych yourself off? What do you do? Do you use that breath work as a practice when you're doing it or just want to

know it's not really necessarily about the cold water exposure kind of just happened? We were at the time, like I guess to go back a little bit further. We were back it could have been 10 years ago, we were asked to do make juices and smoothies at this tech conference called Web Summit and have some of the lead part of that called founders. And remember it came in a letter not even an email, came back and post about 10 years ago, we got a letter in the post inviting us to come make juices and smoothies at this. At the time it was called an elite event called founders at the mansion house. And I remember going today we were driving a little red van at the time. It's like Dave, but being invited into the mansion is like at some elite event. How cool I remember we wrapped up in our little fans and we're making juice and smoothies for all sorts of people and we kind of got chatting to the people we found out one fella was synthetical Jack Dorsey, the founder of something called Twitter didn't know what Twitter was. There's only about 100 people at some fed and Nikolai that founded something called Skype some fella read or something like that the Fed of this thing called Netflix, we didn't know what any of this stuff was because, you know, we're into vegetables and to kind of farming and, and we were late during the break to go in and listen to the conferences, only about 100 people out, it's very intimate. And remember, at the end of a government, cell tech things pretty sexy day like, wonder like, Maybe we should get phones. So, you know, over the next week did manage to get phones and they cameras in them. And we're working ahead, they worked. It was like almost let's try that thing that your man Jack was on that I think or Twitter. And we kind of downloaded Twitter, create an account and then started kind of using it a bit. And started we'd often at the time we have like we both have kids, my my daughter's 12. And Dave's daughter is 12. At the time, our kids were kind of woollen and they wake up in the middle of night, you'd be shocked asleep and off and you could enter sunrise, and in the summer to walk down and kind of walk them to sleep. But I'd meet Dave and we'd go for a walk and you take a picture and put it up on Twitter and people would engage with it. Because, you know, picture the solenoid symbolises you know, hope, New Dawn, creativity, potential nature, all these nice ideals. And we kind of got in the habit of showing up at sunrise and it's swim some days and other days we wouldn't. And then one September, it was about eight years ago, at the end of the cold right at the edge of the steps. And it's kind of a monkey babes kind of drizzling and characters was this northerly wind not skinny. So it's real cold with. But there was a nice sunrise, kind of one of those old heavy solenoids. And I took the picture and I was, you know, had my tablet togs let me but had no intention to swim. And there was this fella and swim and he kind of walked up to the top of the stack. And he was wearing real tight pair talks. He was kind of a big guy. And he said that he kind of looked at us and kind of slim and lat. And we went to an all boys school, so we're kind of susceptible of macho challenges. So we kind of banged on our chest. And then we got even though we didn't want it, and we came out, and we got chatting, and he introduced himself as Neil. And we kind of chatted a little bit. And then as he was leaving, he said, See you tomorrow, lads. Even though we were like, I don't want to swim tomorrow. And so we met him the next day. And the next day, then a friend Caroline's on the beach on the cove, and she joined us. And the next day, Hugo Gallagher, another friend was down in the little beach, and he came and joined us. And suddenly there was five of us. And then the day after we bought chi. And we didn't know how long this was gonna happen or continued. But it felt like something different because like, at the time, we were maybe 32 or 33. Hugo was like 18. And Caroline was maybe three years younger, and Neil was like 15 years old or so suddenly, it was like, wow, these are like different age friends that are that are kind of out of our frame norm. And this is just kind of happening in its own organic, beautiful way. It was like, I don't know how long we're gonna continue doing this. But it feels like something special. And like the first of October came and we swam on the first of October and then Carolyn, it's like, well, that's membership pay for the month, we better keep going. And we didn't know how long we keep doing that. The thing that brought us back it wasn't the cold see, and the fact that you felt really good after it was the what we call Norland the crack which means the phone, like doing it together in the form of feeling like little children kind of facing your common adversity to see the cold, fear and discomfort and that you'd face it together. And afterwards, you'd come out and I guess the cold water, you'd kind of feel very present. And you'd feel very grateful because you've you're no longer in the cold sea. And you kind of form these really beautiful friendships. And we've kind of it's gone from I guess that where there's been times there's been 1000 people on the beach, and we do big public ones too. Whereas nowadays, you know, depends on the day, it could be anywhere from two people to 100 to 200 people depending on the day. And it's, it's this beautiful, we just do it every day at sunrise and it's something that I guess enriches our lives in so many different ways. Because it's I guess it's connecting with nature, it's you see the change. So we spend at sunrise every day. So in winter, it's a the latest sunrise on December 21 22nd 23rd 24th is 840. And then it's somewhere it's at 4:50am. So you're changing with the seasons and you're seeing the tides change. You're seeing the sunrise changed position. So there's something beautiful about that. And it's something beautiful but having to face your your fear because you get out of bed and you're kind of like, I don't want to get messy like every day. But you just get over it. So it's it's beautiful. Anyone? Come join us anytime, from all over the world. Come join us. Yes, if I ever really, people from all over the world says Yeah, it's fun.

Yeah, sounds awesome. And to create a kind of community around it as well. It's kind of

just happened I guess. We've learned that if you show up and you kind of create the space people just, you know can support and join in I'm not saying we created it kind of happened. But it's I guess we've learned consistency or kind of discipline or commitment to something is so vital for anything to grow.

Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Um, what about in terms of like your morning routine after that? Are there certain things that you do that you think, you know, you find really set you up for the day?

Yeah, I guess everyone's different. Like, everyone will have a different Chrono type as in whether they're an early bird or night owl. As in, there's someone that's predisposed to get up early, I think it's typically 30% of people are early birds during those days, he just basically let the dog barking. And so typically, 30% of people are early birds, 30 to 40% of people are night owls. And then everyone in the middle has the ability to go either way. And but where are the birds? So typically, like in summer, I get up from at 4:30am. So it's pretty early. And then after swim, I'll go do some form of training. And that varies from like, could be running, it could be swimming, it could be yoga, it could be handstands, it could be callisthenics, it could be press ups, it could be whatever we tend to mix it up, we found over the years for about 10 years, even 15 years, we used to do ashtanga yoga every day, and we were really rigid and black and white with it. And we became very flexible in certain ways. But we became very rigid in other ways. And then we found it hugely beneficial for us to really mix up our training and mix up, you know, whatever type of physical exercise we were doing, and it just we found it more fun as well. So we typically do that some days, we could be meditating, some days, it could be breath work. So we typically do that for an hour. And then I'll go and have breakfast with the family and bring the kids to school if at school and if it's not after work. But for us morning time is really, I don't know, it's kind of it's a time when there's less responsibilities and obligations in terms of work or in terms of other things. And typically, people aren't following you. So you can kind of in a sense of self, and for anyone listening, it might be the evening time for them. But that's for us. That's that kind of really suits us. And we find it, doing it together. Because, you know, swimming in the sea. I probably wouldn't do half the times, but the fact that I'm meeting others to do it, and similarly in terms of training, like, even this morning, I didn't really want to get up but I said at midday, I said it make rash. So I showed up and you know, you start to get a bit of a laugh. And then suddenly, it's like, wow, I did wait, and we're not meant to do it was good crack.

Yeah, it holds you accountable, doesn't it. And there's something magical actually, it's funny because I'm also a morning, morning chronotype. And there is something just so magical about getting up early, especially like before the kids are up and having that time to do whatever you want. And generally I'm the same I'll move my body in some way. Or meditate, do some breath work, that kind of thing. But it just my entire day goes on a different trajectory than if I if I kind of missed that I could skip one day, and it probably wouldn't change things too much. But after that I'd get really kind of agitated because I think it's just like any habit, isn't it, your body starts to prompt you to do it. And if there's a reward and it feels really good, you just want to do more of it. Yes. Yeah is amazing. Let's dive into the cooking because you make plants but I think part of your mission is to make plant based eating kind of sexy and your food is delicious elicit it's incredible. I think I was like salivating looking at your videos. What would you say for someone who maybe isn't because I'm always trying to persuade particularly women to eat more plants because it's so good for hormones. You know, so many women in the kind of stressful society that we're living in and then also making that transition through perimenopause into menopause, are struggling with hormonal imbalances. And I think just having that extra fibre in your diet, a optimises your microbiome, but it also helps you detoxify things like excess oestrogen. Well, what would you say for someone who wants to get started putting more plants in to their diet? How they can go about that?

Yeah, I think Lance has some some different ways that go with that. In terms of food, like we're all a product of our environment. And right now unfortunately, if you look to the blue zones, which are the five areas in the planet where there's the most amount of centenarians, that's people who've lived over the age of 100, typically, they don't live these long, healthy lives because they won the genetic lottery or because they're superhuman, it's because their environment forces them to make the healthy choice. So their environment forced them to move. They typically dealing with their own cars, they got a cycle, they grow their own baggage that Dan they live in multigenerational homes, their mind and kids, they cycle everywhere they go. So that's in terms of movement in terms of diet, they typically live in environments where there's not a proliferation of junk foods, so they typically only have you know, typically 95% plus of their diet or whole plant foods. However, when you compare that to the average diet in the western civilization, such as you know, America, Canada, the UK, Ireland, typically 50 to 55% of all calories are ultra processed foods. 40% typically is animal foods and less than 10% is Whole Foods. So unfortunately, our environment and anyone who has young kids like right now it's November this third second said yes second, all day long and stuff To date, anyone who has a trick or treating for Halloween, like what we used to trick or treat as kids, we get most of the apples oranges. And we get monkey nuts, which is a term for like peanuts in their shell roll peanuts. Whereas when we went trigger treatment with my kids, two nights ago, they got to make five kilos of absolute jump, like the proliferation of sugar in western just processed foods is just an it's so ubiquitous like at school, my kids regularly the teachers give them jellies, like, again, this is everywhere. So we become a product of our environment. And at the moment, our environment is forcing us to sit in the cage to be super comfortable and eat junk foods. Because remember, our brain is hardwired, like the number one determinant of how much pleasure you get from food. Like if I was to ask you, what's your what's the best meal you've ever had? What made it so good? What would you say? Over there? Say? Yeah, like what makes one meal better than another? Like why if I was to ask you what was your best meal ever? And you could think of it though, what made it the best meal ever?

Usually, actually is the experience of people that I'm with as much as it is the food I think is kind of the experience of it. But for me I'd I don't have a massively sweet tooth. So it's kind of like zingy kind of flavours healthy fast, like you know, herbs, things like that. I love it, I kind of quite a light eater, I'd say.

And then if you were to go deeper, like more like at an absolute rudimentary biological, absolute kind of sustainable level. One is the number one determined to how much pleasure you get from your food. How much

you enjoy the taste right while you're eating.

And then in terms of taste what would make chocolate tastier than spinach.

It's more satisfying. It's the fat I mean, I love dark chocolate, but I guess there's sugar it's that it's the in terms of hyper palatable foods. There's those kind of sensory things that you're getting when you're eating them says it

boils down to calories chapter has two and a half 1000 calories per pound versus 100. So if you think about our goal is human mammals is to survive, and the more calories in our food, the longer we're going to survive for so we're hardwired to crave foods that are higher in fat, because fat is twice the calories compared to protein and carbohydrate. And also we're at heart we're hardwired to crave foods that more embedded energy per mouthful. So that's so we're hardwired to crave processed foods, junk foods, high fat foods, it's endless, like you walk past a chip shop. And no matter who you are your bag of chips in a bag of French fries. It's just it's in opposite. It's just it's in

the very deal and they pump out the bread as you go into a grocery store and you're just

delicious. So it's really challenging and that's why it's almost an act of rebellion to rapidly whole food plant based diet like if you look at the UK, the average fibre intake is somewhere between 16 and 18 grammes whereas the recommended fibre intake is 30 grammes per day so as a society we are way under eating fibre fibre Yoni get fruits, beds, beans, legumes, nuts, and seeds, and whole grains. So Whole Foods, so like for anyone listening, it's not about being vegan, it's not about being vegetarian, it's just trying to eat more whole foods. And it could be like your meat, you're making a chicken curry, put a tonne of chickpeas in put a handful of spinach. And if you're eating breakfast, have a banana have an apple, but it's like little things done consistently over a period of time of massive compounding effects. And I'd like you mentioned your microbiome. So we did a course with a consultant gastroenterologist, that's a good health doctor, Doctor, I'm Desmond. And based on the American Book Project, the number one two or three things you can do for your good health, where 70% of your immune system exists is food, food and food. And the best thing you can do is eat whole foods as much health foods as possible. And the second most important thing is to focus on diversity, to aim to get more than 30 different types of fruit and veg per week. And typically, they found that only one in 250 people actually do that. So it's like

250 50. So we're, we did, we did a challenge, actually a plant based challenge and my membership to eat 30 Different plants. And I was I think that's probably a healthier section of the population, because some of them are like 4050 Plus, and they're doing amazing, but one in 250 people that I knew it's gonna be low, but that does. Yeah, that's

a yes. Well, I guess this is the society at large. And I think, I guess the thing is just to start, and that we're all a product of our environment, and the more we can, you know, there's research showing that, you know, health is contagious as ill health contagious, like it was the network piece of research where they found that if you're friends with someone who's obese, you're 48% more likely to be obese. If you're a friend of a friend as a base, you're 25% more likely to be obese. If you're a friend of a Friends of three times removed, you're 11% likely to be obese. And similarly, if you're friends with some of these healthy you're much more likely to be healthy. So the message is that not in any way shape or form to fat shame anyone or to say anything, but it's like health is contagious. Our environment we are social creatures and we are a product Burn farmers. And if you live in environments that's full would help filled with ill healthy friends. Get one healthy friends, it's not about destroying your own healthy friends get one healthy friend, and it will make it more likely that you're going to eat healthier, and join different clubs, but we're social creatures and we tend to ape or copy the rest of our tribe.

Yeah, that's very true. It makes a massive difference. You don't bring that person down?

Of course. No, it's about helping each other and collectively just supporting each other to do, which is hard to do is to eat more whole foods. Yeah, it's not an all or nothing thing. It's baby steps.

Yeah, and little bits, like you were saying, just add in, like, you know, chuck a handful of spinach into the gallery, as you're saying things like that. What does a typical day in your life look like in terms of eating and

eating? Wow. Okay, you can talk you through today. Let's see, I got someone right half, five, did a bit of meditation when swimmin came back as me and Hugo friend and I had a Americana. And we had, we were testing different types of overnight oats in the kitchen. So I tried those to dedicate it to the studio. And I'm starving and Dave was testing and kind of using one of these pressure cookers, these kind of five minute pressure cooker dinners, and he cooked kind of this. It was kind of a lentil based owl that took him five minutes to make. And I had that add to bottles that are 10 o'clock. And then an event attended about 11 o'clock there. I have two bowls of granola, we make different types of granola. And I had that I'm headed into the cafe, we're doing a separate float from Istanbul, and diddums, a chef, one of our chefs, she's brilliant. And she's testing recipes for that. So we'll try that. And so our lives are rented. So it's like every day is different. It could be we could be testing sourdough bread that we're baking, it could be the in the coffee and the roastery tastes and things we could be testing pastures, because it's always I guess our life is right in food. So it's yeah, it's really fun way to

live your life.

Really. We're lucky we love it. So it's great. It's fun.

Yeah, and actually and both of you got very good like, abs and body composition. That's all from like the ACT active lifestyle, you live alongside it, presumably, it sounds like you specifically go to the gym to

know I, I think we're all mammals, we kind of tend to live you know, as humans, we seek comfort, we avoid discomfort. But like as humans, we're meant to move like we're hardwired to move movement is what keeps us healthy. And unfortunately, modern day society doesn't force us to move. So I think the more we can create an environment where we're forced to move to healthier days, because now we've kind of resorted to exercise, you know, exercise, which is a subset of movement, we tend to go to the gym like and I sit around all day long besides that, but it's kind of, you know, research kind of shows that we're better off moving consistently throughout the day and setting our day up where we're forced to move and it makes us feel better, feel happier and makes it easier to promote health within us. And typically, if you do move or exercise, you're more likely to choose the healthier choice. You know, I know myself and I'm sitting around feeling tired and crap and I'm hankering for a bar chart. But if I even just go for a walk, I'll come back and I probably want a glass of water and then I probably go I haven't bothered with the chocolate. So it's like, I think the more we can, again surround ourselves with people that consistently move regularly throughout the day. It's it's easier to do it and it makes it fun. Like I think one of the keys to making exercise routine sustainable is fun dealing with friends do things you like don't go to the gym, if you don't like the gym, go dancing or go do something. Maybe it's hiking up a mountain, maybe it's singing and walking or whatever it is but like I think photos sustainable whereas toil and hardship typically, you know, it's hard to sustain willpower, you know, typically environmental design will outstrip willpower every day, the week.

Yeah, 100%. But you're right, you kind of crave that movement as well I know like when like I'm at a standing desk here. And initially, before I'd made that transition, I was used to seeing I had to sit down to really concentrate you know what I mean? I had to be seated to sort of do my best work. And over time, what I found is actually now and work better when I'm standing up or I've just got my store perhaps behind me because you fidget more you move more you get more blood flow to the brain and it just feels better I get way less back pain for example, you know when I'm recording and things like that if I've got a day like today and now I've just moved away from kind of sitting at my desk so I do all the other things that are walking and stuff on top but even just simple things like that like changing your work setup to accommodate more standing and moving she just makes such a difference to productivity as much as anything else and mood.

Yeah, I think it's little things I guess that compound consistently you know, we'll do typically walking meetings, as I'm doing phone calls are typically war and I know I tend to be quite like maybe you're similar, a little bit fidgety, a little bit kind of restless, but I kind of need to move and when I move If I kind of feel like oh, now I can kind of sit still for a little bit, but if I don't move, I'm kind of a little bit, you know a little bit on edge. And that I think better when I move, you know, tend to be more feel more creative or feel more at ease within myself. So I think many of us are the same. That movement keeps us healthy, keeps us sane keeps us keeps an infant our body moving, like our lymphatic system is the brains of our immune system. And it doesn't have a pump. Like if you look at your cardiovascular system, it is a pump to pump your blood around your body, your lymphatic system doesn't have a pump, and the only pump it has is movement, and our primary fuel source. Like when people are tired, most people go, Oh, I love chocolate, or I'll have coffee or alcohol or turn into some sort of hope or stimulant. But our primary fuel source is actually oxygen. You know, if you think about it, like the longest recorded period of time for anyone surviving without food is 368 days. Without water, typically it lasts a week. And when it oxygen, you'd be doing well to last five minutes. So it just highlights how important oxygen is in terms of in terms of our existence. And the only way we get more oxygen is movement. So it's like exercise is just so vital to every aspect of our well being.

Yeah, so true. So true. I think oxygen as well and light because you're saying you go out early in the morning, I'm curious, do you go and catch the sun setting? daily basis, so not so much.

I guess we've kind of got to make peace or at least I've had to make peace you can't do it all on like sunrise at least in summer when it's at 4:50am I'm not getting unlistenable Lebanon and bed at night. I'm like, I'm like an Obama very happy I go to bed. My 12 year old nearly took me to bed, no daddy. Like, there are things that I love to do, I'd love to swim at sunrise, it's like I do it every day when I'm at home, but away in London or wasting rounds. That doesn't happen. You know, whenever I'm at home, I do. And that's 300. And whatever, 50 days a year, I do it my love. But I've I guess I've learned to be less rigid with things. And that is like, you know, I'm pretty rigid about swimming at sunrise. So I'm kind of almost contradicting myself. But like, yeah, they get you know, we tend to forget, you know, 70% of us approximately live in urban environments, and that we forget that human beings we are part of the natural world and that being in nature, nature is a different rhythm, like finding lives, like we live in kind of a suburban environment, but I could be in greystones, there's a little bit of a, you know, I gotta get your wireless to kind of do stuff. There's this urgency in this like, kind of undercurrent of stress. Whereas when I come up to the farm, and like, typically our farm, it's I am in, I guess, the middle of countryside. And when it come out and I kind of arrived, I gotta get 10 minutes, because I gotta get down to here and they sort of this tight schedule. And as soon as you open the door and you get it's like it's like a different nature has this different nature as to, like, dominate and get through this. Nature is the epitome of just presence. And I know for myself, when I get to the farm, it suddenly is like, I always Wow. And I think the more at least I spend time in nature, the more I go from being a human doing to be a human being and I feel more at ease and more comfortable and more like grandiose. And I think it's so true for a soul like that we benefit from spending time in nature in the natural world. And that the more we spend time disconnected from it, the more we're gonna have challenges to our mental health because we are nature

studies haven't they like with trees, just even looking at a tree outside your window. I was reading an article the other day around how I think they had a story of trees in a forest and they cut a branch on the end of one tree and they were measuring the frequency like the electrons and vibration on a tree really far away. And it could sense as soon as the branch and just how it's all interconnected. And you feel like that only when you go into a forest for example just kind of envelops you already amazing.

Antoni like this on the farm we use so we use regenerative organic practices so you don't open the soil because there's micro rise and it's a micro riser like the mycelium network. So they like the data cables or it's kind of like a fungal network that kind of encompasses like just in the topsoil, then it's where nutrients are shared. It's where plants can share nutrients they can, they can actually change the pH of the soil. And typically they found a friend Charles doubt and he's kind of one of the forefathers of the no dig movement. And every year he's been doing it for about 12 to 14 years where he'll grow one bed organically with traditional organic practice and the other one no dig where they won't tilled the soil and break up this micro riser and won't release carbon into the atmosphere. And every year the no dig bed would typically yield 10 to 15% in terms of greater volume of vegetables, and I think it's so true with so much of nature that it just it has this wonderful ability to work together and were part of nature and we tend to forget it. We think nature is their disposal, you know for us to dominate interviews have to use its resources. But, you know, were part of nature too. And the more we respect and work harmoniously with it, the more you have to work with us. Yeah,

yeah. So true. So amazing. Before you go and ask you, just because this is super interesting to me, I haven't had anyone you're talking there about your brother, and how you are kind of 95% or 99.5%, genetically the same? It's really and and just how he was just so on board with you, when you wanted to do the business and things? Do you find that you're so it must be an incredible expense that you're so connected, that you can sense each other's feelings, like what is it like to be an identical twin.

And I guess I know nothing else. But to us it for a part is it can be challenging. And I know, my wife can sometimes find it challenging in that, whenever I have a problem. I'll always go today first, because he understands me without even having to talk. And many people who are twins are always looking for that other person who will accept them unconditionally, they will understand them without even talking. And I guess we're blessed in that we were born with that, that you always have this person that will no matter how stupid your idea to go. Great idea. Yeah, that's pretty generous. Don't do it. So like, I guess we're so fortunate in that regard. And I think the challenge of it is that we can both have the same blind spots. And you know, we can both come up with a ridiculous idea of a bill. That's right, and keep going and keep going. And then you realise, actually, that was a stupid idea who were challengers to this challenge is in terms of our relationships that we tend to, you know, will always defend each other this kind of almost a reflex. Like as in if someone says something negative about Dave, I'll immediately defend them, you know, that I actually would actually actually think about it. So you know, there's pros and cons, but I guess we adore it. And it kind of enriches our lives. And so, so many different ways. And I think I remember watching, I think there was this video, Simon Sinek did where there was a festival happening. And there was one person dancing, and they looked like the lunatic. And he was kind of commenting on it, saying that it's not the first person that's the most important for a movement. It's the second person. And over like the person's Denson his own, he's kind of commenting, he says, and he's kind of commenting, then the second person joins the movement. And suddenly, when that second person joined, delimitate, is no longer on their own. And suddenly, it's socially appropriate to join. And suddenly, within a matter of moments, a whole movement of dancers started to take part. And we've kind of found that regularly, if I'm travelling on my own, I'm in the airport, it's like, doesn't feel appropriate to go over into that corner there and do yoga or do handstands, I'll just look stupid. But when there's two of us, suddenly, it's like you're a pack. And suddenly, people coming up telling me you're weird. They're kind of slightly intimidated, because there's two of you, and there's a bit of momentum in it. So we found because there's two of us, we tend to support each other. And almost unconsciously, it tends to, you're kind of less afraid of things, and you're kind of willing to take on more ridiculous ideas. So yeah, it's good and bad, but we adore.

Yeah, I guess it is, I think it's pretty amazing. I mean, when you look at siblings who are not, you know, twins, often they're quite, they can be quite competitive with each other and for that kind of space with their parents as well. Have you found that the closeness that the two of you have translates, in turn almost like your your own kids model, that relationship with their siblings? Or is it kind of unique to being an identical twin.

We're still highly competitive, like we could be cycled in greystones dance a pair of LM a bogey cycle, and side by side and 10 yards out from a Dave lab sprint to win like it was that way. But in terms of our kids, I guess their kids, as we always say to our kids, I have three kids and Dave has two kids. And our kids are genetically half brothers and sisters. Because if they were to measure whether I was the father of his kids, or he was the father of my kids, they wouldn't be able to tell because we have the same DNA. So it's weird and slightly strange. It sounds odd me saying it. But yeah, so they're really close. And they're real. I guess they've always just grown up. Like we both have 12 year olds, we both have nine year old, and then I have a six year old. So you know, the kids are very much it's kind of just happened in its own little weird way. But our children are within two months of each other. So nice. It's wonderful. Like it's such such fun, and they just Yeah, thanks. Yeah,

certainly incredible. Well, before you go, what would you say? Like when you look at this, you've got obviously your amazing success, both of you in your business ventures that you do, you've got beautiful family life, you kind of the epitome of really having it all. What would you say is the key thing that has helped you be successful and remain grounded at the same time?

I think success is arbitrary. And I think no matter where you're standing like you're always gonna challenge it's like the nature of human existence like Even if you're top of the mountain, there's still wind up there, and it's still getting rainy days, and there's still crap. So I think like anyone listening, I think success is arbitrary. And I think no matter where we stand in life, there's always challenges. And that's the beauty of life, this there has to be duality, there has to be night, there has to be dark, there has to be good, there has to be bad. And that's the beauty of, and I think the more we can learn to appreciate that, that struggle is part of life. And that, like, Bring it on. And I don't mean bring it out in a match away, but it's like, accept it, and, you know, learn to kind of, to walk through it. And to appreciate that it's part of it and anything worthwhile, there has to be challenged. So So I think, I'm sorry to not answer your question directly. But I think, you know, anything is possible if you want it. And if you don't want it, that's totally cool. You know, I think just to appreciate that, let's see, where am I, if I kind of sum this up in an in a more sustained way, I think to anyone listening, if there is something that you dream of, and there is something that you aspire towards, I think, take a baby step, I think tell someone, like have a bit of social accountability, tried to get someone to join you in the journey, it makes it a lot more fun. It also helps balance the risk. If you're someone that wants to start a business and you're really good at creative, really good at starting things, while you're crap at numbers, or you're really financially illiterate, get an accountant to work with you to join your team that can make it more fun in that balance at your skill set. And I think be committed to what you do and have a laugh, I think we found in our experience with one of the business if you're enjoying it, you're having fun, people are much more likely to help you when you're struggling and when the shit hits the fan and things aren't going wrong. Whereas if you're stressed at your head, and you're, you know, uptight and you're worried about everything, you know, things are gonna kind of go wrong. But if you kind of can approach it with lightness of heart, and with, you know, an appreciation that there is going to be problems, there is going to be challenges and that you're you're willing to take them on I think you're much more likely to kind of get through them. That's been our experience, you know, and we're far from you know, where on the journey to where flowed humans fumbling along in the world doing our best but to have more good days and bad days and try to appreciate it all appreciate the rain, appreciate the sunshine, appreciate that. You know, when the birth?

It is that duality, isn't it? That's the rainy days that help you appreciate the sunny months.

Unless the huge problem that I have with social media is it betrays this idea that everything is awesome. Yeah. Like, no, there has to be shift days, if there's going to be good days, everyday can't be a great day. And it's like depreciate the ship days and learn to appreciate that kind of downstroke that life can't be one upstroke there has to be a downstroke. And that's why sometimes the middle is beautiful, too. Yeah. So maybe not the most optimistic point to end them. But maybe there's a touch of reality to

know. And I think that's I think that's what we need, because as you said, I think social media presents a different format. Everyone's showing their best side their best thing, you know, and life isn't really like that. And as you say it is kind of that I mean, it's one of the universal laws, isn't it the law of duality, polarity, there's always everything has an opposite to it. positive and a negative. You have an app where people I think can get started on this journey, right and making it even easier. Now. Tell me about that before you go.

Back about 10 years ago, we started doing healthy cooking courses, and people would do them with us. And we found they wouldn't change. They'd have a good laugh and they learned to cook a few recipes. But that wouldn't change. And then after a couple of months, Dave had this idea of wonder he was reading this book by a cardiologist who had shown in clinical trials, you could reverse the indicators of cardiovascular disease in a year in America Dave kind of went, I wonder would this work in Irish people and in our little shop here. For weeks, we went down to the local doctors got a nurse involved Angela and we put up posters. This is 10 years ago, so social media wasn't really around. So we literally put up posters on lampposts and around the tent and in the shop, and said kind of reverse heart disease, skinny, sexy, free. We 20 people sign up, and they came up to us and we were chefs, were teaching how to cook to eat a whole food plant based diet. Angela measured everyone's cholesterol and blood pressure. And we put them on a whole food plant based diet for four weeks, and kind of treats debate we kind of videos of doctors talking about how it was actually going to work in terms of the medically and at the end of the four weeks. We didn't know it was going to work we thought we promised like all sorts of promises. We didn't know if it's going to work. This was based on American science things like you know, we're Irish people, and we're shafts like that a week to know. And but there was an average drop a class total of 20%. Everyone's blood pressure regulated. People lose weight. There's even two blind people who took the course that were unbelievably able to see again, that it was a joke that was a great reminder that simple diet has a massive impact on one of the greatest kit one of the largest killers of premature death in western civilization. And from that we partner with cardiologists, we partner with gastroenterologist, we partner with neurologists we partner with going to college with part With your ologists and various different medical experts to kind of teach people the simple things of lifestyle medicine that what you do, what you eat, how you move, how you exercise, how you sleep, how you approach stress, how you approach community can have a massive impact in your life and most people know what it is to be healthy but they struggle to actually apply it so our app or membership platform is all about supporting people to be healthier and happier and true. These courses and true live events and recipes and breath work and yoga. It's pretty cool. We live in America great time. Let

me come to that in the show notes so people can go and find it and check it out.

We do have a medical for a minute. A happy menopause course coming out later this month. Wellness Consultant gynaecologist which is pretty cool.

Very cool. That's coming out in November

14 to November

14 November so should be live by the time this airs. Oh me amazing. We willing to all of that. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your time. It's been super fun. It's just your energy is incredible. It's lovely to be around you. Thanks so much for coming.

Every time it comes to him it's always anyone you Angela or anyone anyone listen completely recode in greystones every day summarise your well. Yeah,

I need to head out there and it sounds incredible. Amazing. Thank you.

Thanks for listening. Remember to review and subscribe. You can grab the show notes, the resources and highlights of everything Angela mentioned over at Angela Foster performance.com You can also snatch up plenty of other goodies, including the highly helpful Angela recommends page which is a list of everything she personally recommends to optimise your mind, body and lifestyle