Hello, welcome everybody. Welcome back and welcome. Welcome if you're new, Hey, good to see you all, yay. Hopefully you've you've taken the last couple weeks to try out mantra, using mantra, yeah, for,
for inducing lucid dreaming and lucid waking too. So thank you all for showing up again, and we're not going to do a poll this time. That'll be the next time we meet, so we're just going to jump right into it. So here we go.
All right, everybody, hi, so we're going to continue with mantra today. So I'm just going to give a brief overview, just in case anybody wasn't here at our first gathering of the month. And so just to share a little bit about mantra. So, what is mantra? So mantra, they're repeated words or phrases that really focus the mind. They can reduce stress, and they can also promote inner peace. And they can be really simple and really complex. And I really love this term of they can be mind protectors. So if any of you played with this or have had a relationship with mantra over an extended period of time, we can really notice how mantra can bring us back to the present moment and really protect our mind from distraction. So they're really a tool to shape our minds voluntarily, and through doing that, we have the opportunity to really reshape our minds, reshape our experience in the present moment. So how is this connected with lucid dreaming? So we can use mantra as a lucidity induction technique, and it can also be used for stabilization. And I love how mantra can be so clearly experienced in waking life as a stability stabilization technique. And then we can really notice that, like in the lucid dreaming, in the dream space as well. And so the effectiveness of a mantra is really lies in the intention of it. So really being present with it, being sincere with it, and also repetition. And the one that we're focusing on is the Dream Yoga mantra, which is Om ah, nu Ta ra, and it's the only Dream Yoga mantra from the Tibetan wisdom traditions that we know of. And if you know of any others, we invite you to share them with us. So each syllable Katie mentioned this last time, it represents a primordial sound. And so when we use this mantra. It's really essential to not only say the mantra, but really feel the mantra in our bodies. It's really it can be a somatic experience, and we want to do this more than really their conceptual meaning. Their conceptual meaning can be helpful. But really feeling the sound in our body is what creates that vibration within us, and so in order to really highlight this, I am going to share a slide. Here it is.
I think it's fine the way it is. There we go. So as you can see, each syllable here is linked to an element. So the first one we have here is om, which is linked to space. Ah, water,
New
Earth, golden Earth. Ta. Fire and then raw air. And if you want to hear more about how these are linked to the elements, Katie did a beautiful presentation at our first gathering, so you can go back and listen to that recording. But we really wanted to show these to you again so that you have a feeling to connect with, because each element possesses a feeling. So when we think about air, can kind of feel that within our bodies, right? So we can kind of notice that and where each of these primordial sounds really sit within us. So it's another way of connecting to the mantra that isn't just conceptual, that isn't just saying the sound. Okay, I'm gonna stop sharing that for now and then just a couple of reminders. So when seeing the seed syllables of these mantras, and Katie's going to guide us through practice. You really want to play with the different speeds, the different tones of the mantra. You can play with the different volumes of it. And this is when you're when you're doing it on your own. It's just kind of a reminder for all, all of you, and then how you are breathing between syllables. So are you taking small sips of space or deeper, fuller breaths? And really pay attention to your body and let the bot, let the mantra work, work with you, and also don't get too like rigid about it. Really play with it. Once again. This is like about the middle path. So that completes my little portion, and now Katie is going to guide us in a practice.
Thank you, Chelsea. Can you all hear me? Okay, good, great. And I see that, Goron, I'm sorry if I'm saying your name wrong. Put some other Dream Yoga mantras in the chat. So that's really interesting. I'll definitely look into those. Thank you for sharing that with a link there. Okay, so I'm going to guide us in a rhythmic mantra of OM nu Tara. I am going to start out going a little bit slower so that we can all get into sync together with doing the mantra at a slower pace, and then I'm going to pick up the pace a bit to get more into a rhythmic, flowing feel with the mantra. I'm going to begin at a loud to normal volume, and then I'm going to drop into a softer volume, followed by whisper, followed by an invitation for us all to bring the mantra internal and do an internal recitation of it. And then the fifth stage and final stage will drop into silence and drop into a meditation together. So the idea with this type of mantra where we are stepping down in a diminuendo de crescendo fashion is that we are first meeting what when we often have that initial loudness of the mind, we have a lot of activity in the mind. We have a lot of thoughts, a lot of movement. So we're we're meeting that with the mantra going at a rhythmic, faster pace. And then we're getting a little bit quieter and a little bit quieter and a little bit quieter as a way of quieting, softening, calming down the mind, and then we'll land in a meditation at the end and just sit there together for a few minutes before we move move on to the next, next iteration that we'll do today. So with that being said, I think we can dive in. I want to invite you all to get into a comfortable position, meditation posture, not too tight, not too loose. So perhaps if you are sitting up to have an upright, straight spine, but also some softness and relaxation and opening, particularly around the heart. And remember that as we're doing this mantra, firstly, you can use your voice and really. Hear it and feel it, feel the sound aspect of it. But if the sound aspect of it isn't something that speaks to you or that you like working with, you can also really work with it as a feeling or as a visual. So really play with these elements however it works for you, and also, if the pace that I am going at doesn't feel right for you, feel free to change that. If you want to go slower, if you want to go faster, really let the mantra work with you and let it work you. Let it take its take its effect upon you.
So we'll begin slow, and then I'll speed up, and then eventually transitioning into the diminuendo de crescendo, and I will give cues when we're transitioning from one volume to the next,
Om, Ah, nu Ta ra om. Ah, nu Ta ra om, ah, nu Ta ra om. Ah, nu Ta ra om. Ah, nu Ta ra om. Ah, new Tara, Om ah, new Tara, Om ah, new Tara, Om ah, new Tara, nutara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, quieter om Manu Tara, om Nanu Tara, om Nanu Tara, om Nanu Tara, om Nanu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, om Manu Tara, Om Manu Tara,
whisper, oh
Internal recitation and
Drop into Silence Meditation And
and now, as you Begin to come back, bring that silence with you, even as you open your eyes and start moving your body again, see if you can stay connected to that silence.
As you come back to the group in your own timing and
thank you, Katie, that was beautiful. Yeah, take note of how you're feeling after doing that practice.
Take note of what you're feeling in your body and where you're feeling it in your body, and how your heart mind feels as well.
And so there is another way of doing the mantra, and that is through melody, through singing and Katie and I, because we love this mantra and are devoted to the practice of doing yoga, we created a video of us singing the mantra together, and the purpose of this video is really to be a resource for all of you to listen to and sing and really learn how to use the mantra in this way. And so Katie is going to be sharing the video, and she'll also be giving us cues as the video is playing, if you would like to sing along. And I also wanted to share that we are going to be putting up a longer version of this that is more of an audio version that will be about 20 minutes long. Somebody actually requested this of us, which was very kind of them. And the mantra can, as Katie shared, you know, can be used in several different ways, and one one way is really through. Listening, so you don't necessarily have to sing the mantra, so just even listening to the mantra has a profound effect.
Yeah, so I'll share the video in a moment, but I just want to say that we're again. We're doing the diminuendo, decrescendo, so you'll see the volume decreasing in the video, and then when the video ends, because in the video we only do normal volume, quieter, whisper, and then the video will end. But we want to invite you to continue at the end of the video by going internal with it, so kind of singing it internally, and then, once again, dropping into silence just for a few moments. So you can get a sense of doing that with the song as well. And you can look at me. I'm going to during the video. I'm going to just go do this as the cue when we're dropping down to the lower level. I'm not going to actually speak, but it because I don't want to interrupt the audio on the video, but I'm going to go like this, and then at the end, I will give a cue internal recitation. We're going to switch to the internal recitation, and then I'll give a cue for silence as well. So I will share that video now. Okay?
King Omar,
Om, Manu, ta,
Om, Manu, Tara Om, ah, nut om, ah,
nu, ta da, OM,
OM Tara, Omar, om Tara, om Ma, new Tara, O Ma, new Tara, mu
so Now internal recitation With the song you
Drop into Silence and
and whenever you're ready once again. And gently blinking your eyes open.
Thank you everybody for witnessing that. I am going to put the link to the video that is on YouTube in the chat for all of you to use as you wish. And then, as I said, we'll be including audio that will be available in the description of that link too, so it'll be bi directional. And then, Katie, do you want to introduce the questions for the breakout groups? Sure. Okay,
yeah, so we're gonna spend a bit of time now in community connection and breakout groups, and I'm going to share this slide that has those questions.
So the question number one is, where and how do you experience the mantra in your body? Om, ah, nu, Ka, ra, and you can think about this in terms of the individual syllables, or you can also think about it as the mantra as a whole, so either or or both, and when you are considering how you experience the mantra in your body, you may consider visual, auditory and or feeling levels. The second question is, what is your experience working with mantra in general? Is it already or could it be beneficial for your lucid dreaming practice?
Great.
So those are the questions. And I see there's a couple of hands raised. I
asked people to raise their hands if they didn't want to be included in the breakout group. Okay, great, great.
Okay, so Chelsea's going to put together those groups. It'll be groups of three, and we'll have about 12 minutes for this. And if you're opting out, that's totally fine. You can hang out in the main room until we reconvene, and I will also put this slide in the chat so that you can ask access the questions that way as Well.
I'm creating them right now. Okay, great, thank
you.
Okay, this slide is now in the chat.
All right, looks accurate, and we'll be in there for about 12 minutes, and we'll let you know. We'll give you a warning when we are going to be moving out of them and see if you get put into a group, just and you don't want to be in a group, just don't go in there. And I will move them around A little bit. So Enjoy. You.
All right, everybody should be Back in about 20 seconds. You
you're muted, buddy.
All right, we all back.
We're all back. Okay, very good.
Let's open up some Q and A so if anybody has questions or has a something they they discovered, or something with mantra, doing the mantra, we're open, so you can go ahead and raise Your hand, and we can, we can address that. I
So
did anyone have any difficulty with mantra? Go ahead and we'd like to hear about that. Philip So Phil, what you got?
Hello, yeah, I don't know if I can ask his question. This is not about the mantra, just just I have, I have lost my aspiration or my push to to to have lucid dreaming. So I don't know. I just want to share it and perhaps receive something from you, and go back in the in the practice, or in the Yeah, in the aspiration to to have lucid dreaming, Lucy dreams.
Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
I have to say that I am very nourished by my meditation at the moment, so my focus on the lucid dream is a little bit softened so but, but I still have this aspiration, but I have no more. I don't know energy, or I don't know focus, or, yeah,
Katie, Chelsea,
I can share first I imagine Chelsea may have something too, but, um, yeah, thank you for sharing that. Is it? Philippe, yeah. Philippe, Philippe, Philippa, right, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That's it's such a common thing with the lucid dreaming Dream Yoga practice, because it's. It's so subtle, and sometimes we can struggle to make progress with it. And so we can kind of lose the passion, or the fire, to continue going with it. And so one, one thing that I might suggest is, because it sounds like even though maybe the fire, the passion, isn't there. You still want that there's still a motivation towards it. One thing that I would suggest is to strengthen your intention around it, and to make your intention be something that feels really powerful to you specifically. And it could even relate to whatever you're doing in the waking world as well, like something that you're passionate about in the waking world, so that it's like an expansion upon that. That's one thing that I find when you know, when the practice is dwindling, to come back to like, Well, why am I doing it in the first place, and really deeply going into that and exploring and writing that out in a very clear way. The other piece that I would suggest is to really focus on the lucidity practice, or practices that bring you the most joy, so that feel like they're really coming from a place deep inside of your heart, and like you're excited to do them. So sometimes certain lucidity practices, you know, might be like, Oh, I know that if I do this, maybe I'll be more lucid, but I it feels like a chore. It feels like something I don't really want to move towards. I would encourage you to really just focus on that, which is is bringing you the most joy, and because you have already this deep meditation practice, and that does seem like it brings you a lot of joy, and you have a lot of purpose with that, I would say, continue with that. But you can, you can amplify it by adding in the lucidity, lucid dreaming aspect to it, such as when you're meditating, maybe pausing and noticing, Am I dreaming, doing a state check in the moment, so that you're integrating lucid dreaming practice with the meditation practice, and just kind of putting a little bit more focus towards that. But all in all, I think you know, if you're, if you're doing well in your meditation practice, that's great to keep doing that. And yeah, just go for where the passion naturally is inside of your heart.
Thank you. It's, it's very helpful. Yeah, thank you.
It's a real what helpful?
Oh, good, good, yeah, and I don't know, Bodhi or Chelsea, do you have any any inspiration to add? I
thought what you said was beautiful. Nothing to add.
I I was thinking, I really can feel your passion for meditation. And have you? Have you ever experienced meditating in a dream?
No, no, okay, I have some kind of little breakthrough or little awakenings during the dream, but not the experience of kind of being in the meditating. Yeah, yeah.
So connecting your passion for for meditating in and connect it with, what would it? How wonderful would it be? How how much joy would it bring you to be able to meditate in your dream, dream world, and to do that, you'll you'll need to become lucid. But there's some amazing things you can do while meditating in in the dream space, in the lucid dream, experiencing some wonderful things. So if that inspires you, like, oh, wait a minute, I really like, I like meditating in the waking state, meditating in the dream state, there's, there's ways of doing it that are very amazing. So hopefully, maybe that would inspire you to go further with the lucid dreaming. Like, how can I connect those two things? So,
yeah, thank you. It's, it's resonate a lot. Yeah, yeah. It seems tasteful for me. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Mm. Me
Beth. Oh, you're muted, yeah, there you go.
Am I there? Yes, okay, so I am not a meditator, but I'm like, obviously become aware of it, because I absolutely want to do the lucid dreaming. And I'm wondering if age is a thing, because I'm in my 70s, and it's not easy. It's happened. It I mean, the reason I'm even interested in it at all is because it happened, and I would like to experience more of that. But I'm wondering if age is a thing, and if there are certain things that are maybe better for older people to concentrate on.
Yeah, okay, I think I'm gonna take this so So Beth, yeah, I, I was a really, let's say, Great lucid dreamer, or I had many lucid dreams when I was younger. I'm in my 60s, exactly. Yeah, and I noticed that it's a little bit harder now I have less per month. Or it's like, it's, it is harder. And that might be because we've there's more time creating a pattern of not lucid dreaming, so, so we've got to get back to that pattern of having more lucid dreams. So, you know, it's like, like, muscle memory and stuff like that. As we get older, if we're wanting to keep our muscles or keep toned, it's, it's a little bit more of a you've got to really stay on it. Because if I'm
trying all the things that I'm finding, and they're not really helping. And it's, it's frustrating, because I know how cool.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's not an easy road. And I, what I've been thinking about lately is that, you know, doing some kind of like where, you know, like a group, just just together. Does you know state checks every day, checks on each other, like you work as a group, but even more than what we're doing here, well,
actually, I actually work as a Deaf doula, and I'm almost thinking I should start a group just for lucid dreaming with older people. But the state checks, that's no problem. Like, I do that every day, and I actually get state checks. Like, I mean, get that. I get that in my dreams sometimes, and then it just once I know I'm dreaming. It's like, it goes away and I'm going, that's not the point. I don't want to know I'm dreaming. I want to have the dream and I know I'm dreaming.
Yeah, I have something.
This is funny. I just want to mention this because, you know, the space the state checks where you check your fingers and your hands. The other day, I did this, and it's like, it literally, I didn't even get two times. It's like, I just said, Okay, I'm going to do a state check. And I threw my hand out, and it was like, a piece of copy paper. It's like, literally, I knew we get two times I knew we get to look at my hand twice. It was like, I just threw my hand out. And it was, I said, Okay, I know I'm dreaming. And then I woke up. It was like, Oh, this is not fair.
Yeah, can I? Can I add something, buddy? Sure. Cool. So, Beth, I'm a death doula too, so thank you for doing the work that you do. Yeah, it's very cool. It is very cool. And I also work with people with grief and and we have our own Yeah, yeah, exactly. And something that I really noticed with people that are grieving, with people that are later in life, you know, yeah, is that sleep hygiene, yes, can have a huge impact. Yes, so important. And then so we have an event every month through night club, which is actually now a free offering. You don't have to be a nightclub member with the sleep doctor, Dr Ed, oh, and I highly recommend you go and listen to him. He is just a treasure trove of information.
I will do that for sure. Thank you so much. Yeah,
so working on your sleep hygiene, it sounds like you're doing the illusory form practices throughout the day, like the state checks and things like that. I also put the book for Andrew's illusory where he talks about illusory form a lot. It's called dreams of light. I put that in the chat, and then the other thing that I hear is, you know, you're actually you're getting there. You know, you're looking at your hands twice. So my,
you know, I figure I'll live another 10 years, and if I can get 20 lucid dreams out of it, I'll be happy. Yeah,
that's
amazing. That's an amazing goal to have, and then also to just be really compassionate towards yourself, you know, and be joyful in the things that you are experiencing, like, that's amazing that you're you're looking at your hands and you're seeing them, and they're turning into copy paper, and in that moment, maybe try to just stay calm, because something that can happen is excited, yeah, you get too excited, and you're like, my hands look like copy paper. You wake up.
I know. I know. Well, I mean, hopefully that's what's going to happen in the future. Is that, like, since I just kind of started doing this and I realized what I'm doing, like, consciously, it's like, yeah, okay, I didn't expect that. So, you know, the first time I got real joyful about, like, just normal. It didn't look funny, you know, my fingers looked funny and stuff. I thought, Oh, I'm dreaming. And, you know, like, I lasted a couple seconds, but it's like, this time, it's like, I never expected it to just happen on the first go. Like, where you just put your hand,
yeah, you're making progress, which is I am making, yeah. So keep coming to the group and focusing on that, and maybe also find a meditation teacher that speaks to you, because that do that, that stabilization will happen through that, staying calm can happen through meditation, just practice, yeah, well, I
don't know what a meditation teacher would look like or how they would advertise themselves. I live in Central Florida. It's like, I don't know. It's all woo down here. Anyway,
we have a meditation group every Monday through nightclub. Um, yeah, so check those meditations.
I'm here and I'm I'm just thrilled to be here. Honestly, I really am. I'm thrilled to meet you both, and, yeah, I'll be back.
Great. Thrilled to have you, too. Thank you so much. Beth Tim,
hey everybody. Thank you for all being here today. Hey, Marion, one of the things as soon as Katie mentioned the word subtle, the thing that instantly came to my mind was a visualization that I had and have been using from time to time. Lucid dreaming is as subtle as drawing smoke through the eye of a needle with your mind, that seems the way this is for me, it has to be that subtle. You know, we are. We live in this gross material world, and we try to bring to bear our gross material sort of effort on this thing and impose our will on lucid dreaming. And it just doesn't really work like that. I've found, you know, I've, I've I've used that to to be successful in other things, but you just try hard, and you can be successful, not in lucid dreaming. So I've used that visualization to just try to to visualize and embody that subtlety of seeing a puff of smoke from a fire and visualizing a needle and watching yourself use your mind to draw that smoke through the eye of a needle. So maybe that will be helpful to someone
nice. Thank you. Tim. Carol, you.
Hello. It's really nice. Hi. It's really great to be here. I'm loving the questions and the answers, and it's really great. Well, my question was about the mantra, because I do lots of mantra it just seems to come naturally, which I really love. I just want to do it so much I don't even think about it. So what I wanted to ask about the Omma nutara Was I remember Andrew talking about this, I don't know when or where, but he was saying that it's a very, very powerful mantra, and to be cautious with it when you're reciting it, when you're going to sleep. He said, only a few times is necessary. So I wonder if any of you could speak to that and what he might avenge, or if you have any kind of experience with that. Thank you.
Thank you. Carol, yeah. Katie, have you heard anything about that?
I saw Chelsea reaching? Were you reaching to unmute? Chelsea?
No, okay, yeah,
yeah, so that's interesting. I haven't specifically heard Andrew say not to do it too much. Have you heard him say that? Chelsea,
I haven't heard him say that, and I'm racking my brain for the book, you know, because as far as I know, it's actually used as a Dream Induced Lucid Dreaming technique Where you recite the mantra as you're falling asleep.
Mm, yeah,
I guess. But I've heard him say is to, you know, to do it a minimum of seven times, and then cycles of seven can be nice. What? The only thing I'm thinking, maybe, why he might have said that, is, if you're doing it too much, and you're getting kind of caught in the doing of it, and you're not letting it take you down to a quieter, calmer place, that could be a reason not to do it too much, because it, you know, just like anything if, if we're caught in a pattern of doing it, then that can create non lucidity in itself. Like sometimes I'll find that I'll have a mantra running sort of unintentionally non, loosely in the background, or even a song, right? Or something that's not technically a mantra, but a thought cycle, and it'll just be running without my focus on it. So it could be that what he was referring to was something like that. Just stay aware while you're using the mantra, and that you don't need to overdo it or use it too much to it becomes an ingrained pattern that takes you out of lucidity, but to be really present as you're using it, that's the best thing I can think of of what why he might have said that, but we can certainly inquire with him too and see if there's something else that we're missing on that.
Well, I think that makes a lot of sense, and I know he has said that, like what you just said about not being, not focusing on it, and it's like becoming a rote kind of thing or whatever. So I don't know. I don't know. You know, maybe I was dreaming it or something. Who knows? Hmm? Yeah, but yeah, no. But I kind of find that when the like mantras just are running through through my head during the day, I like that though I don't feel like that's any kind of, any kind of detriment. So it's interesting. I think I saw somebody's, somebody's comment that they don't remember him ever saying that, so I don't know. It was just something that just grabbed me. I said, I think I want to ask them about this anyway. Thanks for your answer. I'm not going to worry about it?
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's a really good question. And you know the mantra, these sounds, these omanutara sounds, are primordial sounds. So they're like the closest, almost the closest thing you can get to silence, stillness and spacious. This, but we want to remember that they're leading us to silence, stillness and spaciousness. So this also could be that, you know, you don't want to get caught just doing the mantra forever. You want to eventually be making your way back to that stillness, silence and spaciousness and using as a tool to get there.
Yeah, yeah. Well said, well said, I wanted to compliment you and Chelsea on the video. Very nice. Thank you so much.
Thank you. I'm glad. I'm glad you enjoyed it
very much. Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Carol.
Thank you. I
did want to add one thing, which is different mantras have different uses. And so, like the Dream Yoga mantra is really invoking what Katie spoke to, like getting closer into the silence and calling in that connection to dream. But like a mantra, like Om Mani Padme, that's really bringing in. You know, compassion is what we can use it for. And so Andrew likes to say that he heard from one of his teachers, like, how do you know when the practice is, when you're when you've accomplished the practice? And they responded, the practice will start doing you. And so if you do notice that mantra is happening just in it's that subtle kind of it can be very subtle, where the mantra can be happening in the background, but you still have thoughts that are overlaying like the mantra. So the mantra is like here, but then the thought is like here. So you can kind of have like two going at the same time. And so part of the subtleness when you're working with mantra is recognizing, oh, I'm still having thoughts that are like overlaying the mantra. Can I kind of go like this? So maybe the mantra is creating stabilization, but I'm still having thoughts, but they're kind of they're kind of equal, or I'm still moving through my daily life with presence. That's how I've experienced it. And Katie's shaking her head too. So I just wanted to make you make that suggestion with mantra Yes.
And also the just that, that that split second where you catch yourself doing that, like if you're sitting in mantra meditation, and then you notice that the mantra is running, but you're really not paying attention the moment that you notice that is, you know, that's, that's meditation right there. So I think that's going along with what you said, exactly,
Carol, that's coming back to awareness, right? It's almost like, like we're talking about in lucid dreaming, using this as a lucid dreaming induction technique, the mantra is now making us lucid in our waking life too. Yeah,
I'm glad that that was that's a point that you're talking about today, that that mantra, because I had it written down, and I was starting to use it, but I kind of kind of went in the backseat, so now I'm going to start it again. Thanks so much.
Yeah, thank you, Carol.
I have a question, but I can't find the hand raising. Oh,
no problem. Go ahead.
Thank you. Yeah,
so
I listened to a lot of Buddhist teachings about the death process and about how the body shuts down like in a certain order. So, like, they know, like people who are, you know, fairly experienced with it, know what's happening as it's happening. And I'm wondering, as I look at this mantra, if it's in the order that the body shuts down, no, because it ends with breath, with the air. Yeah,
I'm giggling because Katie and I had this conversation with each other. Katie, do you want to add? You go for it. Yeah? You go ahead. Go ahead. Okay, yeah. So it's interesting that it doesn't go in the same order, right? Because it's like, it would be kind of helpful if it did go in the dissolution process, but it the, really the dissolution process as we're dying. N is earth, water, fire, air and then space. But Katie was sharing with me that om. Will you share about om a little bit Katie and how it's
Yeah, so, so in this mantra, Om is considered the beginning and the end. So space holds the entry point, it also holds the completion point. So sometimes I play with doing this mantra and I end with om. I don't end on raw as a way of, kind of closing up and completing that cycle. So with that in mind, this mantra almost goes in the dissolution process, but it starts with water, water, earth, fire, air, space. So why they do that? I don't know. I would love to speak with someone who knows why it goes in that sequence, and maybe we'll discover that in time. But yeah, it could be because, I mean, this is just my own thinking about it. Don't take this as literal truth. But it could be because, in Dream Yoga, we're not dying, right? We're not actually wanting to die. So maybe they switched it up a little so that it's not exactly the same as death. That that would be my one creative idea about why that could be, but it's a beautiful question. And, yeah, yeah, go ahead and
well, um, I've also wondered.
I, you know,
sorry, I
can't do it right now. Yeah,
no, that's okay.
Thank you, yeah, thank you for the beautiful question. Yeah, yeah. There's another, there's another link that I'm curious about, which I'm going to do more research on, because in November, we're going to be doing the Lotus practice, which has each of the syllables connected with the petals. So there could also be a directionality piece, because, ah, you know where ah, OMA nutara are located on the Lotus. There could be something around that with it as well. So I'm going to do, I'll do more research, and hopefully I'll have, we'll have a deeper answer for you next time we see you.
Thank you. Sorry. I just like lost it for a minute.
That's okay.
I'm wondering about this waking up within the Bardo. And you know that, like I love the I love the whole like, familiar getting familiar with death and with the the transitioning process and but I also wonder, like, is there sort of a Long term, like, sort of a long reason why, like the monks, would want to wake up within the Bardot and then be reborn consciously, like is that to sort of put them in a different place in their next incarnation? Or I
Yeah, that's a beautiful question. So this is a really deep question. I love it. I'm wondering, are you part of the preparing to die program?
No, I've just been with several people who have passed, you know, recently, and the one thing that it just really bothered me that they were so unprepared and frightened and unwilling to do that work. What's a doula anyway? I'm not one, but I know that doula, so yeah, beer was kind of, I guess I'm becoming de facto, but yeah, we just buried my sister and her husband last weekend. So it was, it's still close, but it was gorgeous. It was just a beautiful, beautiful, like the most beautiful ceremonies I've been to, you know, burial at sea, followed by a celebration of life at their favorite restaurant. You know, it was just really beautiful, with lots of friends and family. So, but I, you know, I just, I thought a lot about the death process and, and I think it's beautiful, you know, like I the first time I heard this talk by it's a Buddhist monk who does a lot about death, and he, he goes to the the place in New Mexico. What's the name of the No, it's the famous bud Zen, oh, upaya, yeah. Upaya, yeah, Frank, some frank,
I always you know
who it is, right?
Yeah, yeah.
He's written a lot about death, and he speaks beautifully about it. And, like, you know, I mentioned to somebody, wow, you know, I just heard this most beautiful talk about the death process. And they're like, ooh. And we're like, no, it's really beautiful. But it is, you know, as the body breaks down and I guess our consciousness rises, or, you know,
yeah, it is beautiful. I completely agree. And it's kind of amazing, right, how we disregard dreams in the same way that we disregard death. Oh, dreams don't mean anything. Ew, death. I don't want to think about that. And so, yeah, the first question I want to ask you, is it okay because you asked such a deep question, if maybe we answer that at the next gathering. And then my next question for you is, what are the names of your sister and her husband? Oh, Renee and Ed. Renee and Ed. Okay, I'm going to keep them in my prayers. And then my next question for you is, do you have Andrew's book preparing to die?
No, not yet. I have a stack of books about preparing to die, but I don't have that one yet.
That one might really interest you, because he speaks to it from the Buddhist Tibetan Buddh perspective. And I had a death over this last summer, and the Bardo practices actually really helped me with my grief process, and also understanding the dissolution of death, and he also speaks to your question that you asked in that book as well. So I highly recommend that maybe you get that, and it's really nice because it's it's put into chunks, because it's spiritual practical, so you can and it's like how you can help others after they've died. How you can help yourself so you can really go to what you're looking for where you're at right now.
Thank you.
You're so welcome. Thank you for being here.
Thank you.
Okay, glider,
you had your hand up, but I see it's down. Now, are you still have a question or something?
Gilda. Gilda, thank you. Hi, hi, yeah, I just noticed the time, so I was wondering, um,
yeah, and I think maybe we'll just take Gilda and Stephanie and then we'll, we'll complete for the day. So yeah, thank you.
Yeah, my my share was about the mantra. I use mantras extensively and in and do dreaming as well, from different different perspectives and traditions. And so when we looked at it, we said, oh, it's up the chakra system. And Walter yellow is the third. Walter is the second. And fire would be right there, mixed in the yellow area with earth and then air would be the heart center. So we just, and you spoke about the earth being the first element in the in this tradition, the Muladhara Chakra down below. But it perhaps has to do with the the middle, which is where, where the yellow and the fire is, which is the point where life takes is manifestation as it moves from to include the higher registers and the lower. So it's sort of like the middle, for example, in Feng Shui, they the the in the in the Chinese use yellow and Earth as a center, and then the other ones are all around. So that might be part of why, if the earth and the yellow are coming at that point. Point in the mantra, rather than at the beginning, but I will also share that space, which is the first om, can either go at the beginning or the end. So that was great that Katie pointed that out, because that is the the portal where, whether it's at the beginning or the end that that is available, so we like that. Thank you for sharing that.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.
That's beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Gilda. And actually I, I did look up in the Gelug lineage and in the Gelug lineage, it's actually it is a descent. So each of the syllables, and I think I spoke about this in the first session of the month, but it goes, Om, ah, nu, PA, Ra. So there's a descent that happens from higher to lower. So that could be what they were aiming for with the mantra. It's interesting. Syllable installations are so different, and depending on what lineage you look at like they they'll put them in different places, even the elements. So yeah, I think just working with it in whatever way speaks to you, is great, but I think in this particular lineage, it is a descent. But thank you for sharing that. Gilda, that's beautiful.
Yeah. And Stephanie,
Hi there. Hi. So I'll keep this super short, but it's kind of related to what you're talking about. And I think Katie, you said you were going to something about the, the you were going to talk about how, Oh, God, how is it, you know, how it's put in that the different form, the lotus, I bring the how, the mantras and the lotus. And because I had a question about that kind of as well. And maybe, if you, if you run it by Andrew, or you maybe, know, or something, because the in the lotus, it was always Ah, okay, there's one way I was, I remember being taught by Andrew. Was it where, you know, it's like, ohm is in the center, and then it's like ah is in the front of the throat. And we often would use ah as the red red light, or the red symbol of ah in the in the throat, right? Or maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but this is how I remember it. And it would be in the front, and then it would be, as opposed to what you're describing as descending. I always did it, or do it when I do it as om in the in the center, which and ah is in the front of the throat. And then New and then ta rot like, you know the three dimensional throat Lotus shape. You know what I'm Are you following me on this? Absolutely, yeah. So that's how I practice that particular mantra. I don't, I don't with just that particular mantra. Um, so my question, a sense of conflict came about not not not conflict. But I was curious, because the way you were describing the OM on new Tara Ra, you were putting it with these colors, like om being white space, whatever. And then the second one, ah, you were having with blue with water, which is completely different than how I learned it from Andrew, with ah being the red at the throat, and how I've learned other mantras. For example, Om, ah, home, I did not lose learn that from Andrew, but elsewhere, you know, it was like white ah, om and then red ah at the throat, and then blue at the heart. So, yeah, ah often seems, in my limited for sure experience, to be red and at the throat chakra. Okay, so that's I'm just going to put it out there. You don't need to answer it today, even I just you recognize how I'm seeing like, No,
I am glad to give an answer to it, because I've had the same like inner conflict about different traditions and different lineages, and even within the same lineages, sometimes there's different colors associated with different areas, or we do it differently. And I actually think Chelsea and I have talked about this. We think it's actually intentional as a way to not get us caught in duality and not get works for me, stuck on like, this is where it is and this is the color of it. Yeah, right. It's like, it's not really. These are all just tools that were wet. It's not duality. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So what I was speaking to, it's, it's the this mantra that we're teaching comes from the Gelug lineage, and Andrew's Nyingma and Kaju lineages, right? So it's, so there's correlations, but there's not exact specifications and crossovers. And actually, in the lotus, I think even as Andrew teaches it, the colors are the same as I taught as we taught them in this so the blue is when we're working with the lotus. However, yes, when we're on the awe, the sound, and it's red, right? So I think as much as you can like, let go of what you think you know it to be, or what pattern associated it with, and just be with whatever that practice is at any given moment. I think that's really the teaching in it.
That's, that's fine. I yeah, I didn't want to get too hung up in it even. And I didn't, I noticed it last time, and I thought, huh? And then I just thought, I'll let it go, you know, whatever. So I definitely can let it go and and just go with, you know, variety of but I like the idea of, like it being intentional to just to just keep us out of it. So anyway, that was all. I noticed that I wanted to bring that up. So, yeah,
yeah, thank you. So yeah, it's important to look at that, and we can check in with Andrew too and see what he has to say about that. But
yeah, right. Okay, thanks you guys. Thanks everybody,
thank you. All right, okay, closing it down, Chelsea.
All right, yeah, thank you for thank you everybody for your questions and offerings, and so I'm going to put some links in the chat right now. The first one is, if you're not signed up for nightclub, please go click on there and sign up so that you can get the reminder emails and also learn more about the offerings at nightclub. And then we also have the Dream Yoga mantra video that we created right there, and then you can give us feedback via our contact form. At, this is a dream dot space, and that link is there as well. Yay. Okay, thank you, Kate.
Okay.
In the coming weeks, may we all have deep, restorative sleep, May we all be blessed with more recall of our dreams and more lucid dreams.
And we dedicate the merit of this practice, this gathering today, to the benefit of all sentient being, may it be small. Thank you all for being here until next time.
