1:44PM Aug 29, 2022
natural gas industry
wind turbines are a common piece of the Kansas landscape solar farms are growing in the state. But the push to wean the nation off fossil fuels is gaining steam with California banning sales of new gas fueled vehicles in 2035. Another idea involves something called Green hydrogen. So name because it would be produced with renewable energy. Here to outline the ideas Joe Spiess, Chief Executive Officer of wind So hi, and Overland Park company, welcome.
Hi, welcome. What would you Tim, I'm happy to be here.
Yeah, thank you for being here. Let's begin with some of the most basic ideas of green hydrogen, just begin with you trying to explain what people like yourself are trying to solve. By working with hydrogen.
Hydrogen has the most potential of any energy source for ending the use of fossil fuels in a couple of categories, most obviously, through providing fuel for vehicles and transportation. But there are also ways with the technology I've developed to use it as a critical component in generating electricity. The problem historically, has been the price of hydrogen. But I've been working on hydrogen projects for 20 years. I know this subject. And the thing that I've known for the longest time, I've known for 20 years that we would reach this point in time, where climate change became so severe and such a drain on the economy where it's creating hundreds of billions of dollars a year in damages to infrastructure. Climate change is killing 9 million people a year, we can't continue to use fossil fuels. So we have to get off. The good news is, when you make hydrogen the right way, when you make green hydrogen with the best natural assets, it's actually far cheaper than any fossil fuel. And if you want, I'll explain the formula for how you calculate the price because this is the main thing that people need to understand. And it involves the great wind resource in Kansas. Should I explain that to
you, we can get to that the there is enthusiasm for this idea of hydrogen, I think European countries are involved. Many President Joe Biden Congress have invested billions of dollars to unlock the potential Amazon, I think is committed to make use of hydrogen. So let's just do a little bit more basic front end work here and explain the science of hydrogen as an energy source.
Okay. Hydrogen is the simplest molecule, it's also the most abundant molecule in the universe. And it's very simple to work with and manipulate. That's why it's going to be so easy to industrialize it to use it for different purposes. Like any pressurized gas, when you're working with hydrogen, you have to be cautious with it. But it's actually safer than gasoline, for example, they've tried to hurt crash test dummies in vehicles. When you put hydrogen in a cylinder in a car that's run on fuel cells, then they crash it and try and explode it. But it's such a light molecule, that when the cylinder that it's stored in in a vehicle is punctured, the hydrogen just goes up and away immediately. It's not a heavy vapor, like gasoline that tends to sit around the vehicle and can ignite and cause damage. So it's actually safer. And when you do it my way, using wind power, it's actually very easy to produce in a hydrogen electrolyzer, which is the instrument used to make hydrogen. You simply run electricity into water. And then there are electrodes in that electrolyzer, you have an anode that works with the oxygen way if you're talking about water and h2o. The anode works with the water the cathode works with the hydrogen and the oxygen goes to that electrode and the hydrogen goes to its cathode. You can capture both and use them. That's it. It's really a very linear
molecule there Yeah. Just water hydrogen from water the oxygen
Yeah. And then you capture the oxygen from which is oh and h2o and then you capture the
hydrogen before we get to your company and the research you've been doing and and so for what what are the possible uses for for hydrogen transportation for engines, heating, cooling, just kind of touch upon that how How a consumer listening to this might be connected to this issue. Sure,
the goal will be to convert every vehicle in the country to run on hydrogen. Because hydrogen fuel cells are really, really effective, they're far, far superior to batteries, and that with a battery, you can go a couple 100 miles, and then you have to spend a lot of time to recharge the battery, they're much more expensive than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. And with a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, you will go 500 or 600 miles on with one tank. And the experience of fueling and refueling the car will be very similar to what we experienced. Now, in ice internal combustion engine vehicles where you have to get out, you put the pump in, put the fuel in, that's exactly what you do with hydrogen to with hydrogen, there will be a lock on the cap. So because it's under pressure, and so you stick it in, turn the lock, and then you just let it go, it might take a minute or so longer than it takes to refill your car with gasoline. But it's it's really very simple. The
business just helped me visualize this, this hydrogen, is it in a liquid form? Or is it gas state,
it's gaseous. Okay, there, there is some interest now, in looking at liquefied hydrogen for 18 wheelers, for example, that's gonna get expanded because to liquefy hydrogen, you can do it, but it requires a lot of energy that adds cost to its natural, gaseous state to liquefy it. And then you have to keep it really, really cold at about a minus 150 degrees. Well, if you don't, you get what is called boil off, where just a little bit of warmth, as soon as you get above minus 150 degrees, that that hydrogen starts to go away. So you can do that. And you can power ships with it, and you can power trains with it, and you can power large vehicles with it. But it's more expensive in the gaseous version is much, much, much simpler to make and manage in this process.
So what about using this for cooking and homes are heating home,
that's going to be a bad idea there. There are some people in the hydrogen industry who insist that it's okay. Ironically, there are kind of supporters coming from the fossil fuel industry, in particular, the natural gas industry who were lobbying for, hey, let's let's try blending a certain amount of hydrogen in with natural gas so that you know it'll clean it up a little bit. And then all they're doing is really trying to prolong the use of natural gas. And as I said, hydrogen is such a small molecule. When you put if you were to put pure hydrogen in some of the regular pipelines that hold natural gas, now, it would escape, that hydrogen molecule will just leak right through the metal. And as a matter of fact, it has a corrosive element that if you're not storing that hydrogen in expensive stainless steel, or a carbon fiber cylinder, for example, on vehicle, if you're just using ordinary metal pipes that are using natural gas right now, you will get a problem called embrittlement that will completely corrode away that metal and then it becomes dangerous. So it's my only way to do it maybe would be to sleeve the natural gas pipes pipelines we have around with that. We're just gonna have to get off of natural gas we're gonna have we're gonna have to electrify and that means transcript attentionally developed seems
like a plausible and enduring agender handle your home yeah, questionable. What about use in big industry, steel industry, the cement industries,
right. Those industries use gigantic amounts of hydrogen. So now the the solution to decarbonizing those industries just means getting the hydrogen from a green source, not the blue or gray hydrogen made from natural gas. So if it comes from a green source, you can make massive amounts of decarbonizing a reality when it comes to making steel and submit.
Interesting. Okay, now let's get back to when so high your company and your vision of of how you could bring these elements of the energy industry together.
Okay, now, first, people need to know Understand how you calculate the cost of hydrogen. And this is really important for people to understand in making green hydrogen 80% of the cost of the hydrogen is a result of the price of the electricity used to power the electrolyzers. So in the case of Qantas and the thing that I've been promoting for 20 years because few people really understand by the way, the other 20% of the cost is mainly the capital expense for the electrolyzers. Okay, and those costs are going to plummet. All the major electrolyzer manufacturers in the world ne L in Norway, Siemens in Germany, Cummins in North America, Mitsubishi, some others. They've all committed to making gigantic increases in the amount of electrolyzers that are available, that's going to cause the prices for electrolyzers to plummet. And the three leading electrolyzer manufacturers are saying now, as they're all in the process right now, in building these giant electrolyzer manufacturing facilities, that within the next year or two, the price of the electrolyzer is going to decrease by 80%. So, and even without that decrease, right now, if you use my method for making hydrogen and getting back to that formula, if 80% of the price of the hydrogen is a result of the price of the electrolyzer or price of the electric electricity used to power the electrolyzer if you're using wind power at night, the price of wind power in Kansas, the power purchase agreement price, the PPA price for wind power in Kansas is about one and a half cents per kilowatt hour. It stands to reason that that's what the electricity from wind power is selling for during the day. Okay, it stands to reason, and I'll explain how we get almost nothing for that cost of wind power at night is going to be far less than one and a half cents per kilowatt hour. In fact, in Kansas in this part of the country, if you look at the wind corridor, those are the states of North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas a little bit in New Mexico and Colorado. The there is a gigantic amount of wind power that's already being used. There's so much wind power, that we have a problem called curtailment at night, the wind projects have to be shut down, because there's more wind power available than there is demand for its use. So oftentimes at night, the price of wind power at night goes into the negative pricing range were actually below the cost of nothing for wind power at night. And the Department of Energy has some charts, where they low the input costs on the x axis and the Y axis to show how you arrive at the price of hydrogen. As soon as you go below three cents per kilowatt hour. The price of hydrogen is far less than the cost of natural gas, which is the primary source for hydrogen these days. So if you look at the potential in the wind corridor states, and you have the other necessary assets and natural assets for making and storing massive amounts of hydrogen, we can make that hydrogen right now if we installed the electrolyzers today hooked them up to a wind power in Kansas, we could already beat the goal set by the Biden administration's Department of Energy in their hydrogen are shot for $1 per kilogram. In one decade, we're already below that cost.
So first of all, we're going to make use of nighttime wind power inexpensive to to drive the power of separating out hydrogen. Yeah. Okay. So, so that sounds intriguing. You know, more efficient use of that interest, wind infrastructure. Alright, so, now you have your hydrogen, you've your you've electrolyzed it. That's right. So, what's the next piece of the puzzle there?
Okay. You need to be able to store it cost effectively. And and you need to pressurize it. The it's so light, you need to use a lot of pressure, for example. We're probably going to have to get to about 10,000 psi which is a lot of pressure to be able to reduce the, if you're talking about above ground storage and cylinders, you're going to need to get between 5000 10,000 psi to store the hydrogen effectively. So you're not taking up gigantic acreage, you know, these these cylinders stack to to store the hydrogen under pressure. So the thing that makes most sense for massive amounts of hydrogen is to look at the salt formations in Kansas, which we have in abundance. And that is very simple. And they've been doing this down in the Gulf Coast since 1990. They have been storing hydrogen effectively, cost effectively and safely. And the salt formations down there, they have about a what is it a 500 mile pipeline that runs from Louisiana, into Houston. And they store they make gigantic amounts of hydrogen they use mainly in the oil refining process and to make diesel. And then they store it in the salt caverns. It works like a charm. They and they use PVC pipe, they don't use metal pipe for transporting that hydrogen from point A to point B. And they've been doing this for three decades. So we know it can be done in phases, we have these underground salt, salt formations, okay, they're just like the ones in there, they're tight enough
that they can be a proper substitute for some other container that would be above ground.
Yeah, you can, you can create these formations, you can create caverns underground, and these formations of hundreds of millions of cubic feet, where you can store gigantic amounts of hydrogen, then you just need to look at where is it going to be needed. For example. If you want to get it to the cement fans, plants in shinui, or the refineries down in the southeast part of the state or up into is it would be actually very simple to just build these simple PVC pipelines to make the hydrogen here and store it underground, then when it's needed, just send it via PVC pipe to its destination where it's needed. That's one way now for when it gets to vehicle fuel, I've always maintained that you really don't need this massive infrastructure, you don't need to build these gigantic pipeline systems to move massive amounts of hydrogen for the vehicles because you can just if you imagine every place where there is a gas station now, all you do is build set up your electrolyzers. There, you you build your storage container underground. And you just make the hydrogen on site and store it there. It makes a lot more sense. So that can be done very inexpensively I predict. And I've been really accurate. I mean, everything that I predicted that would happen in the energy industry 20 years ago has come about, I've had a pretty accurate record, from my predictions on where things are going there. I predict that as hydrogen evolves, and through economies of scale, the prices of electrolyzers continue to go down, down, down, down down, the access to hydrogen becomes more universal, that if we're going to get to the point eventually for each individual household will be able to make their own hydrogen electrolyzers are going to become so cheap. All you need is electricity and water and you can make your own vehicle. You've
talked about electric cars, what do they look like? Do they look like a you know, a furnace that size that you would have in your house? I mean, how big are they what do they
look like? They come in all different sizes right now depending on the usage, the ones that I'm talking about, for the projects I'm involved in are really large, they have a footprint of about, let's say 50 feet long, by about 15 feet tall. And that's, that's, for example, a two megawatt electrolyzer and so, and they're what they're doing right now, as as sciences is involved in. I'm very connected to the top scientists doing research on electrolyzers and their different types of electrolyzers. The most common one is an alkaline electrolyzer, then you have proton exchange membrane electrolyzers. And there are a couple of New Kids on the Block. One is called Solid oxide, the other is anionic exchange membrane. There's a ton of money going into research and what they're doing is increasing the efficiency and that's going to reduce the size of the electrolyzer too. So everything He is moving in the direction of making it possible to have electrolyzers installed all over the place for wherever hydrogen is needed. And I'm very serious about just replacing wherever gas stations are now put an electrolyzer build underground storage. You can make your hydrogen on site, you don't need pipelines, all this other stuff, you just make it there is real cheap, you can make it at night use power at night. So what
before we get to the Department of Energy and possibly research in Kansas on this? What is the timeline we're talking about here to get this done on a more industrial scale. And then, and then as we progress down this, this line, get it so that I might be able to go to a gas station and get my hydrogen, or have my own unit in my house, like what kind of timeline,
the Department of Energy has set aside $8 billion to fund the hydrogen are shot. And their goal is they want to create these hydrogen hubs. And the governor of Kansas has given the green light, she's working with a team, I'm talking to the team members to turn Kansas into hydrogen hub, possibly joining forces with a couple of other states, possibly the hydrogen hubs that been announced around the country. One involves Oklahoma, Texas and Louisiana, there's another one that involves in Mexico, Colorado, and Utah. So the pattern here has been for about three states to join forces to create a hydrogen hub. Now, the hydrogen hubs that have been announced so far, have been organized by the natural gas industry, the natural gas industry is fighting for their life, because they understand that they really can't compete on a price basis with hydrogen going forward. So they're going to try and create hydrogen hubs that will prolong the use of natural use of natural gas by building these pipelines over the next 10 years to answer your question. It's kind of the expected timeline for developing the infrastructure needed to increase hydrogen usage. My problem with this hydrogen hub announcement is that they're saying, Okay, go ahead and use blue hydrogen blue hydrogen is made from natural gas, but they use carbon capture and sequestration, they use technologies to capture the carbon that is released through the steam methane reforming method to derive hydrogen from natural gas. My problem is, those carbon capture technologies are failures. And they're really not going to solve the problem of decarbonizing that we hope to achieve with the hydrogen because it uses natural gas because it uses natural gas, the carbon copy request works
and I always thought, correct this, I thought sequestration was really like putting something into the salt mines of, you know, the salt, like sequestering carbon in some manner. Underground? Yeah. First you have to cows that different from what you want to do. While there Why is that bad technology?
Well, the reason that's bad is it because in the let's just look at Blue hydrogen, and what they're proposing and where it fails. You start with natural gas, and the chemical formula for natural gas is CH for carbon and for for hydrogen molecules, then you use extreme heat to separate that carbon from the hydrogen, you capture the hydrogen for its use, that's fine. But now you're left with this massive amount of carbon in this process. And what do you do with it? So first, you start with natural gas, where's natural gas coming from now? It's mainly coming from, from fracturing, hydraulic fracturing, which is just a mess. There are massive amounts of carbon and methane that are leaking already in this in the process of extracting the natural gas, then that natural gas has to be processed. There massive amounts of carbon leaks and methane leaks that happen when it's processed, then it has to be stored there massive amounts of leaks when natural gas is stored, then it has to be distributed via pipeline. There are massive leaks of methane and carbon when it's distributed via pipeline. So before you even get to the point of the A steam methane reforming method, you've got massive amounts of leakage because you're dealing with natural gas derived from hydraulic fracturing, which is just a disaster. Then you once you capture once you're using steam methane reforming to get the hydrogen from natural gas, then you have to capture that carbon, you have to process it, and then transport it to where it can be stored in these. In Kansas, for example, there is a geologic formation called the Arbuckle about it's 10s of miles deep, it's way, way down there. But it can hold billions and billions of cubic feet of carbon, if that's what you want to do. But it's just white, why go through this?
So we would ditch the carbon down there and wait a byproduct? Yeah. So the distinction is, is that if the natural gas industry pursues this from their perspective, that's environmentally unfriendly approach, that if you use these electrolysis method, it's cleaner, particularly if you use wind or solar power, yeah, there's zero carbon to to push the process.
And it's cheaper. Think about this in this. And I'll use this example, carbon capture and sequestration that's needed to carbon to capture the carbon from when you're trying to make the the hydrogen. That's a hugely expensive process. And it's really inefficient. And I'll use this one example, to explain why it's so dangerous and why it adds to the cost. There was a an attempt, funded by the largest oil and gas companies in the world for this project and Australia. And this is very recent, they've just discovered what a failure it is this year called The Gorgos project, where they spent the oil and gas companies spent $3 billion to capture the carbon that was made when they're making liquefied natural gas. And so there's there's a lot of leakage in that process. And they were going to use carbon capture and sequestration in that process. The oil and gas companies promised that they would capture 95% of the carbon when they sequester it. But independent analysts came along to check if they were successful at achieving that 95% capture rate. And they weren't, and they're at best is 50%. And here's the problem when you're dealing with methane. Methane is 80 times more effective at trapping heat and carbon dioxide. Just small amounts of methane in the atmosphere are far far more dangerous and damaging than carbon dioxide. So all these efforts are working with natural gas, which is methane. And to make hydrogen or to use carbon capture are just fraught with disaster. They're they're going to destroy our future, quite literally. If we don't stop them from succeeding at this, this method for getting hydrogen. Just
to be clear, the alternative that you're suggesting, would methane would not be a byproduct, there's
no there's no carbon involved is none.
Okay, let's talk about the possibility of one of these hubs and explain what a hub would be. Is this the infrastructure to go about this process? Or is it considered like a research pilot project hub? What do you mean by hub? No,
the hub team like the governor has a team of people working to to put together a proposal to DOE and that proposal will have to contain the elements for hydrogen use. Okay, so you're gonna get a hydrogen? What are the uses for hydrogen that you propose? Okay, it's going to be for vehicles, it's going to be to make energy with technologies like mine, are you going to them by the way, and at some point, I need to explain how use hydrogen to make electricity. And we people need to understand that too. But this hub proposal, we're going to have to explain the uses for the hydrogen, what types of infrastructure, they're looking at building. And then they have other goals. What is this going to do for employment? What is it going to do for costs? How's this going to affect the oil and gas industry, the Department of Energy is trying to be kind to the oil and gas industry. They're saying wherever there's an opportunity to provide new jobs for people in the oil and gas industry who are displaced by these new technologies. You have to have elements of that into these hydrogen have proposal. So it's this is a lengthy proposal because for example, in Kansas, we would expect to get 500 million to a billion dollars For a hydrogen hub here to get this, this location started as a hydrogen up and we should, because Kansas hasn't the best natural assets to make it work of just about any location and the kind of wind
and storage. Yep. And and the you say the money, it's it. We're talking about federal funding here the Department of Energy, yes. What would be some? How long might it be before you get a sense of whether or not Kansas will receive such money about a year? Okay.
So we need to move, there's got to be a lot of action right now. And the in the thing is, and the thing I've tried to make clear to the governor, through people, I know people on her team, so I'm not talking to the governor, I'm talking to people on our team. Yeah. If you look at the potential for hydrogen, in Kansas, you're talking about an easy 20 to $30 billion in development, just through the wind projects that are needed to create the hydrogen, for energy and for fuel,
we'll need more wind farms. Oh,
god, are you kidding? This is going to create the western Kansas is going to read this like a bonanza they have never seen there is no technology in the world that offers the economic potential for Kansas that green hydrogen does. And it's staggering. What's involved is
could a hiccup be that people, folks who live out there sick of wind farms?
I know because I'm I'm developing wind farms out there you go out into western Kansas. Most of the people out there are dying to get this type of project built. There's a there's a small they're welcoming. Oh, they are they want it because there's nothing that's going to do more in these small communities to bring economic vitality into these small areas. Are you kidding me? There's nothing is really going to revitalize western Kansas.
What do you think is the common level of information out there and the general public about about this technology, hydrogen, and so forth?
About 1/10 of 1% of the people understand its potential?
Yeah, I think I'm in the majority there. I'm learning as we go here. Yeah. Yeah. So you want to you mentioned that you want to talk about how we use hydrogen to make electricity. Yeah,
there are. This is what got me going on hydrogen initially. Anyway, I was working on a huge green hydrogen project in starting in 2005. And there's a gigantic combination, refinery and fertilizer plant down in the southeast corner of Kansas. It was called Coffeyville resources. It's owned by Goldman Sachs. I knew the guy who was the general manager, the engineer, who's the general manager of that facility, we used to play football together in Lawrence, okay. And I went to him with a proposal I said, Okay, right now, they, they get their hydrogen from a dirty, filthy byproduct in the refining process called petroleum coke. And I went to him, I said, you're gonna get hammered. There's so much dirty, filthy emissions from this, EPA is going to come down on you eventually, I want to just propose to you, providing you with 8 million standard cubic feet of hydrogen a day that I will make using wind power and electrolysis. And I said, our price, even at that time, I said, I can make this at a price that's going to be competitive with what you put on your books as the price for the hydrogen that you derive from your petroleum coke. And so I explained that I work talk to him for months. And then they said, Oh, my God, we're going to do this. So we developed a memorandum of understanding, I went put in enormous sums of money in developing this project. And in the in the course of developing it, I was going okay, now, where am I going to store all this huge amount of hydrogen? And I looked at above ground, I was going Holy crap, this isn't gonna work. I gotta come up with something. So that's when I started looking at using natural geologic formations. I went to a guy. He's one of the smartest guys I know. His name is Ray Dean. He's a professor emeritus of engineering at University of Kansas. His wife, Sarah has been on energy committees for governors in for the last decades. In Kansas. They're very, very smart people. And I went to him and he's the one who said he was one of those select group of elite engineers in the 80s. involved in building the one and only compressed air energy storage plant in the United States. It's located in Alabama. And he's the one who said, Well, yeah, you need to look at natural geologic formations. By the way. Have you heard of compressed air energy storage, and I was kind of like, huh, and he said, look into it, you're gonna find that there's great potential in this technology. So I looked at it so I read it, I was just kind of like, it's crazy that this hasn't been developed more, because if you're using wind power at night for the compressors and stuff down there in Alabama, they just use coal power and whatever is available and just to power it. And so it's a little more expensive. But the same cost event benefits that you get in making hydrogen from low cost, wind power at night, apply to compress your energy storage, where in this technology use wind power at night, to power these giant compressors, you make massive amounts of air, these are large projects, the ones I'm talking about for Kansas are five 600 megawatts. You inject that air from these compressors, into natural geologic formations. Then when you want to make electricity, you release some of that air, it's under pressure, it blows through a modified combustion turbine, just think of the blades of a jet engine fan, it just spins it to make electricity. It's actually a very simple technology. But there are some things that I'm doing that haven't been done before I had to make the the process completely green. So I wanted it down in Alabama, they use natural gas combustion to reheat the air before it as it's withdrawn. And I had to develop a way of hydrogen combustion. And I've been working with Siemens Corporation for the last nine years to do that. I don't want to dwell too much on the particulars of the point is, you can make electricity. Using these massive amounts of air stored underground, you reheat it with hydrogen combustion, and you make electricity that is much less expensive than natural gas power, or coal power. And that's the key here. It isn't just an environmental went and my system isn't just completely green. It's cheaper than any other baseload source of power technology in existence in the world today. And I took this proposal to the Department of Energy, and they said species onto something, we got to support this guy. So they had me do a proposal to their loan program office for $1.2 billion for the first project out in Northwest Kansas.
They said, Okay, this is good, but you need to finish this geologic work first. So I've got another proposal into them to complete the geologic work because not only does my system include the first ever hydrogen combustion chamber, but we're going to be storing the air in non salt formations, which hasn't been done. But we know we'll work from the top geophysicist and geologists in the world agree with me. So here you're using massive amounts of hydrogen as a component in making electricity that's completely green, and is cheaper than any fossil fuel. So we can make we can put these systems all over the place and eliminate the need for natural gas and coal power.
And do you have any friends in the oil and gas industry,
not one, not a one. And then there's something else you do with hydrogen to make power to a handful of companies, primarily Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, GE and Siemens, maybe one or two others in Alstom, maybe in Europe, are looking at simply replacing natural gas with hydrogen in a power plant just to use pure hydrogen, for generating power. Now, you can do that it's more expensive than what I'm talking about. And that's my advantage. But it has advantages, too. And that with my system, there's the possibility what happens, I'm going to provide five days of storage like compared to a battery, where you get about four hours, my technology is going to solve the problem of intermittency. But it's going to make sense just in case of emergencies to be able to generate electricity from pure hydrogen in a hydrogen power plant that's using hydrogen in the same way that use natural gas today. So that's, there are a couple of ways to make electricity using hydrogen, compressed energy storage is the least expensive and most efficient, but you can just replace natural gas with hydrogen in a specially designed system. It's some of these companies claim that they won't be quite ready for that system until about 2030 2028 2030. So it's, there's a time lapse there where my stuff is ready to go. We can do that right away.
Okay, before we close out here, how about you take a shot at summarizing what you just spent 30 minutes talking about in 30 seconds. Like if you were standing in line in a grocery store and you needed to explain this, what would you say
The potential for green hydrogen for vehicle fuel and generating electricity is our greatest economic and environmental hope, because it's going to be cheaper than all fossil fuels when it's made correctly, and is going to do more to stop climate change than any other any other source technological source in the world. And this is going to create millions of jobs in this country, high paying jobs. So it's going to lower costs, create millions of jobs, there's nothing not to like about it.
All right, we're gonna leave it there. I want to thank Joe Spees, Chief Executive Officer of when so high and Overland Park company and forward thinking guy, thank you so much for your time.
You're welcome. Good talking to you, Tim. Thank you